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Doddage
12-26-2007, 10:34 PM
Guess we just didn't want to play defense tonight. Tins had an awful shooting night.

Lord Helmet
12-26-2007, 10:35 PM
Tinsley did not help matters the way he played. No one else did much either, though.

The Pacers are going to really be wishing this was a win soon.

D-BONE
12-26-2007, 10:36 PM
The three game set starting tonight should tell us a lot about where this team really stands.

Not off to a good start. Will we ever be able to move beyond win a couple lose a couple?

heywoode
12-26-2007, 10:37 PM
I just love how the Hawks always seem to be UP UP UP to play us....To their credit, they get it done. It just seems like they have self-esteem issues with every other team in the league, but play us like they know we are their beyotches every damn time.

I knew going in that it would be a tough game. The Hawks are playing pretty well, and like I said, they always seem to have our number. Gotta love the attendance in Atlanta tonight...I heard it announced at over 16,000....

Wish we had that kind of support!

AesopRockOn
12-26-2007, 10:38 PM
Pacers looked like they just got done eating a huge Christmas dinner. Hawks are pretty good tho.

Kofi
12-26-2007, 10:38 PM
Nobody else had a chance to do much of anything with Jamaal hogging the ball.

Our #1 scorer, the extremely efficient Mike Dunleavy, gets 6 shots while Mr. Inefficiency gets 21.

That's why we lost.

BlueNGold
12-26-2007, 10:38 PM
Tonight was actually a good shooting night for JT. He shot 28%.

Jamaal-Star is 19% from the field the previous 4 games.

Things are looking so much better now. LOL!

D-BONE
12-26-2007, 10:38 PM
I just love how the Hawks always seem to be UP UP UP to play us....To their credit, they get it done. It just seems like they have self-esteem issues with every other team in the league, but play us like they know we are their beyotches every damn time.

I knew going in that it would be a tough game. The Hawks are playing pretty well, and like I said, they always seem to have our number. Gotta love the attendance in Atlanta tonight...I heard it announced at over 16,000....

Wish we had that kind of support!

Wish we had some of their talent. Not that that's an excuse.

ABADays
12-26-2007, 10:39 PM
Got to see the P's for the first time tonight on AFN - fourth quarter actually. Pffft!

BlueNGold
12-26-2007, 10:40 PM
Nobody else had a chance to do much of anything with Jamaal hogging the ball.

Our #1 scorer, the extremely efficient Mike Dunleavy, gets 6 shots while Mr. Inefficiency gets 21.

That's why we lost.


It's all about JT.

Kegboy
12-26-2007, 10:42 PM
A ball hog with 12 assists ain't too shabby. And as we've heard many times, I'm sure Jimmy told him to keep shooting.

BlueNGold
12-26-2007, 10:44 PM
A ball hog with 12 assists ain't too shabby. And as we've heard many times, I'm sure Jimmy told him to keep shooting.

Don't believe the 12 assists. That's just more ball hogging where he only shares with one player. LOL.

Kofi
12-26-2007, 10:49 PM
A ball hog with 12 assists ain't too shabby. And as we've heard many times, I'm sure Jimmy told him to keep shooting.

When you have the ball in your hands as much as Tinsley had it tonight, you're bound to pick up some assists. Stephon Marbury built an entire career on that type of play and actually tricked people into believing he was an All-Star a few times. Of course that style never led to any sort of winning, but that's not important.

6-21

Conflict
12-26-2007, 10:50 PM
I Don't like this at all, I really think we have a better team than the Blazers and the Hawks. Why cant we play we uptempo against the hawks, serieusly I think If we play every oponent uptempo this is a 50 game win team at least.

LG33
12-26-2007, 10:55 PM
I just got home from my grandparents house so I didn't get to watch the game, but by the sound of everyone's comments, and by the look of the boxscore, it would seem as if JO'B is trying to turn JamaalStar into another Allen Iverson. Let's just try not to fall below .500 against Detroit.

NuffSaid
12-26-2007, 11:01 PM
Nobody else had a chance to do much of anything with Jamaal hogging the ball.

Our #1 scorer, the extremely efficient Mike Dunleavy, gets 6 shots while Mr. Inefficiency gets 21.

That's why we lost.
BINGO! This was the #1 reason for the loss tonight. Others made mistakes, but Jamaal's FG/3P shooting leds as the #1 reason the Pacers loss.

Kofi
12-26-2007, 11:04 PM
Tinsley's a great passer and a good penetrator, I just don't see why he feels the need to jack up all of those shots outside of 15'. Everyone knows he can't hit them consistently enough to help us win. He needs to drive to the basket, draw some of the defense in, and kick out to one of GOOD shooters instead of throwing up those ugly flat-footed clankers that go in about 25-30% of the time. We've got 5 really good to great shooters (Dun, Granger, Shawne, Troy, Kareem) in our regular rotation, and Tinsley isn't one of them, so why does he act like he is?

BlueNGold
12-26-2007, 11:09 PM
Need a Jamaal-star poll about now.

This type of game is classic JT. When do we get to see AJ kick his booty again? lol.

Unclebuck
12-26-2007, 11:29 PM
I watched the whole game and the biggest problem for the pacers tonight is that they just didn't play smart. Poor shot selection pretty much the whole night. And the rebounding was horrible. Sure Murphy scored and shot well, but the defense and rebounding is noticeably better when he's on the bench and Foster is in the game. But then I was so upset about Jeff's stupid foul at the end of the third, I wasn't in the mood to see him on the court in the 4th.

Joe Johnson played an excellent game, but AJ was a huge key - JT could not post him up and whenever AJ was on the court the Hawks played really well

McKeyFan
12-26-2007, 11:39 PM
I've been getting shellacked recently for suggesting that Kidd is better than Tinsley.

Sure, Jeff made a dumb foul. But he should have been in more in the fourth. Poor defense, including down low, really hurt us in crunch time. And he's always good for a couple of momentum turning offensive rebounds.

There were a couple of outside shots that JT just didn't even attempt to defend agressively. That lackluster attitude down the stretch is a killer. Of course, he may have been pretty tired.

Marquis plays this game, we probably win. (Backup pg, defense on Joe Johnson.)

I'd like to trade JT right now. Some people scream in protest, but the time to do it is when he's hot.

OnlyPacersLeft
12-26-2007, 11:42 PM
what the hell happened? I love coming home to see that i recorded a game of garbage. I actually accidently watched the final 10 seconds on accident.. i hit "Resum playback" and saw us down by 12 with 10 ticks to go...what the hell happened?
why was JO in the game if it was over> ?
someone please recap!

Oneal07
12-26-2007, 11:55 PM
I kinda stopped watching cause family came over, but I knew we were gonna lose this game the way we were playin'

kester99
12-26-2007, 11:58 PM
Recap:

(Too few stops+outrebounded+Granger overwhelmed trying to guard Joe Johnson+AJ showing up JT) = too few running offense opportunities = too many half-court offensive sets = (JT dribbling into traffic+unsuccessful layups+kicking ball out after defense is set) = (contested 3s+lost confidence+hesitation+turnovers off panicky passes) = Hawks win.

BruceLeeroy
12-27-2007, 12:45 AM
You won't get any protest from me Mckeyfan. The only problem is JT has a pending felony case. I doubt anyone will trade for him until that's settled.

This was a typical Jamaal Tinsley game. Makes me wish we had Juice back.

Aw Heck
12-27-2007, 12:53 AM
Didn't get to see the game. But honestly, I wasn't surprised the Pacers lost. As someone else mentioned, the Hawks always seem motivated to play the Pacers. I think the problem is that we keep sending them our former players. Before, it was Al that was always motivated to play against us. Now it's AJ.

We're a .500 team, folks. Get used to it. We'll be hovering around there for the whole season I'm guessing.

CableKC
12-27-2007, 01:19 AM
what the hell happened? I love coming home to see that i recorded a game of garbage. I actually accidently watched the final 10 seconds on accident.. i hit "Resum playback" and saw us down by 12 with 10 ticks to go...what the hell happened?
why was JO in the game if it was over> ?
someone please recap!
In the last 2 minutes....we pulled within 3 points ( I think ) and then we went ice cold for the rest of the game.

CableKC
12-27-2007, 01:33 AM
A few things to note:

1 ) Tinsley took too many 3pt shots. Tinsley went 0-8 from beyond the arc.....at what point does a player decide to stop shooting 3pt shots after missing so many shots? Either Tinsley himself or JO'B gave him the go ahead to continue to take that many 3pt shots......but apparently neither realizes that he isn't a good 3pt shooter in the first place. I can understand that he took 4 to 5 before the 4th QTR....but taking one ( after missing so many ) when we are close and trying to make a run in the last QTR is a bad decision.

2 ) I think that Dunleavy and Granger arrived late to the arena....cuz neither of them really showed do anything from an offensive POV. Granger seemed passive on the offensive end contributing nothing after the half and Dunleavy didn't even attempt a FGA until the start of the 3rd QTR.

3 ) The Hawks radio announcers suck.

Will Galen
12-27-2007, 01:42 AM
In the last 2 minutes....we pulled within 3 points ( I think ) and then we went ice cold for the rest of the game.

At the 2:32 mark we were within 4 at 96-92. Under two minutes the closest we were was 6, at 100-94 at the 1:57 mark. The last time we were within a possession was at the 6:12 mark at 89-86.

As for Tinsley shooting so many three point shots, I thought he shot to many too. However I remember one time he passed to Danny and Danny passed up a three and passed it right back to Tins, so he shot it. I don't know what the scoop is on Granger, but he's reminding me of Derrick McKey in that he doesn't want to shoot. Like someone else said, he's to passive.

Kofi
12-27-2007, 01:43 AM
We're a .500 team, folks. Get used to it. We'll be hovering around there for the whole season I'm guessing.

Yep, and it sucks badly. I hope we can work out a deal to improve the team, if not for now than for the future. I still think moving J.O. would be in both his and the teams best interest.

Aw Heck
12-27-2007, 01:51 AM
Yep, and it sucks badly. I hope we can work out a deal to improve the team, if not for now than for the future. I still think moving J.O. would be in both his and the teams best interest.
I just hate being stuck in mediocrity. Sometime soon, Larry needs to pick a direction to go. Either start the rebuilding process (for real this time) or sell off our young guys and try to win now. Because just settling for being a .500 team isn't really helping the team or attendance. Just pick a direction and go. Stop toeing the line.

The Colts are distracting the casual Pacers fans anyway. Maybe by the time this current Colts team is done and retired, the Pacers will be good and will start attracting attention again.

rexnom
12-27-2007, 02:24 AM
I just hate being stuck in mediocrity. Sometime soon, Larry needs to pick a direction to go. Either start the rebuilding process (for real this time) or sell off our young guys and try to win now. Because just settling for being a .500 team isn't really helping the team or attendance. Just pick a direction and go. Stop toeing the line.

The Colts are distracting the casual Pacers fans anyway. Maybe by the time this current Colts team is done and retired, the Pacers will be good and will start attracting attention again.
Yikes the truth hurts. We play some great ball but we just don't have enough talent. Atlanta's just had A LOT of talented guys. It's amazing but all those guys they've stockpiled have finally arrived: Williams, Williams, Childress, Smith, and now Law and Horford. Of course Joe Johnson, who is playing insane ball. And they got decent role playing vets in AJ and Zaza Pachulia.

kester99
12-27-2007, 02:38 AM
We ARE going to be a .500 team more or (yick) less until early/mid March...the schedule looks good for a run thru March/April to end up a few games above par. This assumes nothing implodes or explodes...just the team we have now, with maybe some improvement with experience together thru the season (or not).

That will definitely make us a play-off team in the East. And there are lots, lots. of folks out there who pay little attention to the NBA until the NFL's over, All-Star weekend, or the playoffs. The Pacers have a chance to make a good mark: make the playoffs, get back somewhat in the good graces of Indiana....and, well, that's about it.

Who really expected more than that from this team, this year?

Trader Joe
12-27-2007, 04:04 AM
Why did Tins shoot 8 threes is the main question here. You take away those 8 shots and he is 6/13 which isn't perfect by any means but its not bad either. 8 threes attempted in a game is a lot for anyone. Just doesn't make a lot of sense. Hopefully its an aberration.

Peck
12-27-2007, 04:54 AM
Well I just watched the tape delayed version of the game.

Needless to say I was underwhelmed.

First let's give credit where credit is due. Billy Knight has put together a very long lean team that on any given knight can be a problem for any team. In a couple of years this team may be very very good.

I can't believe when I look at the box score that Al Horford only had 12 & 7. I honestly thought he was at least 20 & 10 if not more. He seemed very very active and everytime I looked he was impacting the play on the floor in some fashion.

Speaking of impacting the play on the floor....

We got a full show of Mel Mel the Abuser & of course we were the ones abused by Mel Mel.

Look, he's had a great season so far. So I'm not going to drag him totally over the coals for this game. However this is one of those games where we really truely needed a good alternative for him. Backup point guard still has to be one of our top priority's on this club. Owens did ok, but he is at best a 3rd string p.g.

As someone else pointed out the 12 assists by Jamaal were a little inflated due to the fact that he was dominating the ball so much.

However let's not let Granger or Dunleavy off of the hook either. Neither of them were even close to being aggresive enough IMO.

Also I know that people are going to once again be blaming Troy Murphy for everything from poor defense to high property taxes. Let me make this as clear as I can. without Troy Murphy tonight we don't even come close to making this a game. He had two sets of big runs that made up for big deficits in a hurry.

Could he have rebounded more? Yes, frankly though the Atlanta team is a team that is going to give him fits with boards because they are high jumpers and tip tip tip the ball a lot.

Also, let's make sure one thing is pointed out as well. Sheldon Williams shut Jeff Foster off of the boards when he was on him. Jeff could not move him and was not able to get long boards around him either.

Overall it really wasn't a pleasant game to watch. I felt like our wing players were walking all night long.

Also Ike was trying really hard but I just wish someone would get ahold of him and tell him that he doesn't have to come out of the gate firing. If he would only focus on rebounding and defense half as much as he does shooting he would be a killer on the floor.

BTW, another nice game from Kareem Rush. Slowly but surely I am starting to like him more and more.

Now what the hell is wrong with Harrison? Why did he not suite up for this game?

Frankly his plethora of injury's is getting old.

Anyway, gotta just put this game to bed and move on.

rexnom
12-27-2007, 05:41 AM
Al Horford is a beast by the way. He is insanely good. I thought Horford over Conley was stupid for the Hawks. Not so much anymore.

LivingLegend
12-27-2007, 08:18 AM
This team has been the most entertaining team to watch since the Auburn hills brawl (IMO), but I'm tired of being optomistic. You can not lose to teams like ATL or MIN, when you've beaten teams like orlando and have had a strong western road trip. The Pacers will screw themselves out of yet another top round draft pick with yet another 500 season.

Trade Oneal, Trade Tinsley, Trade Granger.... play only the bench.... I dont care. The purgatory of 6th-8th seat in the east must end. One way or another, through a losing record, resulting in a high draft pick, or a winning record, raising the value of players and giving us the chance to make some decent trades. Something must break, or attendance at games will continue to slide, the Simon's will begin losing money, then sell the team and watch it move out of state.

BoomBaby33
12-27-2007, 08:52 AM
I just love how the Hawks always seem to be UP UP UP to play us....To their credit, they get it done. It just seems like they have self-esteem issues with every other team in the league, but play us like they know we are their beyotches every damn time.

I knew going in that it would be a tough game. The Hawks are playing pretty well, and like I said, they always seem to have our number. Gotta love the attendance in Atlanta tonight...I heard it announced at over 16,000....

Wish we had that kind of support!

It goes back to the Al Harrington era in the ATL. When we traded him to them, he fired the whole team up to play us tough, and that was even when we were still considered one of the top tier teams. They were a 25 win team that year and shut us out in 4 games. I think that has actually helped in the Hawks progression over the last 2-3 years (plus the plethora of talent they have), in that it gave their team confidence.

Peck, Harrison is supposed to be out for 10 games with an ankle injury, I think.

The game itself. I didn't get to see it or hear it, but I think this game showed how important Quisy is to our success.

Lets go get the evil Pistons.

Go Pacers!

OnlyPacersLeft
12-27-2007, 09:04 AM
all of us complaining about being mediocre considering the season we had last year? we need to lighten up. The season is still young and this team is still gelling. We are going to be up and down for now. It's just how it is...back to 500. and everyone wants tinsley and JO gone...when they leave we arent even mediocre...is that what you guys want?

Phildog
12-27-2007, 09:11 AM
all of us complaining about being mediocre considering the season we had last year? we need to lighten up. The season is still young and this team is still gelling. We are going to be up and down for now. It's just how it is...back to 500. and everyone wants tinsley and JO gone...when they leave we arent even mediocre...is that what you guys want?


I think everyone wants to complain. :)

Naptown_Seth
12-27-2007, 09:24 AM
all of us complaining about being mediocre considering the season we had last year? we need to lighten up. The season is still young and this team is still gelling.
A) 29-24

B) Go check posts from prior to the GS trade regarding the .500 or so team, this isn't new.

C) 29-24 then became 35 total wins. In other words, I'm still concerned, especially when I look at Mike's hot start in GS last year, a Tins night like tonight, and lots of other inconsistencies and injuries that hint at the possibility of a total collapse.


They've impressed me by being better than the 20-25 win team they looked like in the final 2 months last year. But that surprise runs the risk of overshadowing the continuation of mediocrity from last year with no apparent gameplan to get out of this spin in the near future.

.500 on the way up is one thing, .500 on the way down or even on the way to a lot more .500 is another.


I know a lot of people hate the +/- and therefore the thread, but let me point out something I've noticed while doing it. Harrison is a key guy this season, far more than Ike so far. Once or twice was flukey, but Hulk has been an impact guy in a number of games. Gotta get him back and healthy.

And Peck, another +/- discovery is Rush. He has had more impact games than just his best scoring nights. I've also noticed that when he or Quis move Dun to the SF things go better. Given where Granger's game is at, and passing up shots to give it back to chucking Tins is a prime example of his non box score issues, I'd really, really like to see Rush at SG, Dun at SF and Danny back on the bench for now. Not ready is not ready, no matter what flashes of skill he's shown.

D-BONE
12-27-2007, 09:25 AM
This team has been the most entertaining team to watch since the Auburn hills brawl (IMO), but I'm tired of being optomistic. You can not lose to teams like ATL or MIN, when you've beaten teams like orlando and have had a strong western road trip. The Pacers will screw themselves out of yet another top round draft pick with yet another 500 season.

Trade Oneal, Trade Tinsley, Trade Granger.... play only the bench.... I dont care. The purgatory of 6th-8th seat in the east must end. One way or another, through a losing record, resulting in a high draft pick, or a winning record, raising the value of players and giving us the chance to make some decent trades. Something must break, or attendance at games will continue to slide, the Simon's will begin losing money, then sell the team and watch it move out of state.

This is a valid point. In fact, it's one I agree with even though I am continually holding out for the team to string together a win streak.

It's sad we've locked up guys like JO and Tins to their deals and they've become all but untradeable for a variety of reasons. At least for anything significant. I would still be trying to peddle them though. Neither of these guys is a long term answer. Probably not even a part of an answer.

naptownmenace
12-27-2007, 10:35 AM
First let's give credit where credit is due. Billy Knight has put together a very long lean team that on any given knight can be a problem for any team. In a couple of years this team may be very very good.

I found myself saying that out loud about 2 or 3 times last night. Josh Childress turned the game around for the Hawks. His defense and energy was incredible last night.



Also I know that people are going to once again be blaming Troy Murphy for everything from poor defense to high property taxes. Let me make this as clear as I can. without Troy Murphy tonight we don't even come close to making this a game. He had two sets of big runs that made up for big deficits in a hurry.

I totally agree. I thought that Troy, JO, and Kareem kept the Pacers in the game. When they weren't on the floor the Hawks would go on a 9 or 10 point run. Troy knocked down shots and I think not brining him back into the game in the fourth hurt the Pacers.

Jeff's energy and hustle was negated by Williams and Horford. But I'm becoming more and more irritated that the Pacers refuse to box-out anyone. Shots go up and they just look - no one puts a body on their man and the Hawks killed them on the offense glass!

JT was terrible tonight. He had some very untimely turnovers as well as all those missed shots. He's struggled the past 3 games.

Either way, we shouldn't get too down after a loss just like we shouldn't get too hyped after a win. I will say this though to their credit they did not give up. They fought back till the end.

OnlyPacersLeft
12-27-2007, 11:17 AM
1 step forward....2 steps back...it's going to take a good minute. Atlanta is looking like a playoff team! this isn't the same abysmal hawks as of past years. We never play the hawks well for some reason...I'll take the wins over orlando and the nice west coast trip. This team knows when the important games are...

Elgin56
12-27-2007, 02:05 PM
Did Tins have too much of the Christmas cheer(booze)? His stat line seems to indicate that. His most telling stat was 0 fouls, some real bad aass defense. I suppose if your seeing double it is hard to play defense.;)


He can't shoot any better than his brother.

kester99
12-27-2007, 02:40 PM
Pacers fans should quit (over)reacting like Yankees fans. It's unseemly.

Barring the unforeseen, we're looking at a winning record this year. I still firmly believe that. An 8-10 game turnaround from last season is nothing to sneeze at. Certainly not worth throwing ashes into the air, wailing and rending your garments.

This season, and then two more seasons, and then 23mil/annum frees up. Bird is trying to work with what we have, and what we can get within budget. You say you can't wait? Want us to pull the trigger on some mid-season trades and gut the team? Then what? The new line-up will somehow miraculously gel around the young superstar studs we get for JO or Murphy or JT? B****, please. Or are we trying to make the team so bad we get in the crap shoot for Eric Gordon? (Roll them dice! Daddy needs a new shooting guard!)

Man up, Pacers fans. Get under life's chin.

Gyron
12-27-2007, 02:56 PM
I would like to thank Kester99 for teaching me a new word today.

I did not know what the word Rend meant before today. I visited Dictionary.com, and now I know that to "rend" means.....
rend http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 FRend) (rěnd) Pronunciation Key (http://cache.lexico.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html)
<!--BOF_HEAD-->v. <!--EOF_HEAD--> <!--BOF_SUBHEAD-->rent (rěnt) or rend·ed, rend·ing, rends
<!--EOF_SUBHEAD--><!--BOF_DEF--><!--EOF_DEF-->
<!--BOF_HEAD-->v. <!--EOF_HEAD--> <!--BOF_SUBHEAD-->tr.
<!--EOF_SUBHEAD--><!--BOF_DEF-->
<LI minmax_bound="true">To tear or split apart or into pieces violently. See Synonyms at tear (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tear)<SUP minmax_bound="true">1</SUP>. <LI minmax_bound="true">To tear (one's garments or hair) in anguish or rage. <LI minmax_bound="true">To tear away forcibly; wrest. <LI minmax_bound="true">To pull, split, or divide as if by tearing: "Chip was rent between the impulse to laugh wildly and a bitterness that threatened hot tears" (Louis Auchincloss).</FONT minmax_bound="true"> <LI minmax_bound="true">To pierce or disturb with sound: a scream rent the silence.
To cause pain or distress to: tales that rend the heart.
<!--EOF_DEF--><!--BOF_HEAD-->v. <!--EOF_HEAD--> <!--BOF_SUBHEAD-->intr.
<!--EOF_SUBHEAD--><!--BOF_DEF-->To become torn or split; come apart.
<!--EOF_DEF-->
<!--BOF_DEF-->
[Middle English <TT minmax_bound="true">renden</TT>, from Old English <TT minmax_bound="true">rendan</TT>.]
<!--EOF_DEF-->

kester99
12-27-2007, 03:39 PM
I would like to thank Kester99 for teaching me a new word today.

I live to educate.