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View Full Version : Who are you willing to give up for a backup PG?



Trader Joe
12-19-2007, 03:25 PM
Lets say there are two categories of backup PGs
1.) Lots of potential, young PG who hasn't proven much. I.E. Kyle Lowry, Mike Conley
2.) Established vet PG, won't get any better, but you know what you're getting. I.E. Brevin Knight

Who would you be willing to give up to attain these type of guys? We've discussed a lot of different backup PGs we might like to have, but who are you willing to give up to get them?

Will Galen
12-19-2007, 03:29 PM
Williams for Conley.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-19-2007, 03:30 PM
Any Combination of David Harrison, Marquis Daniels, Travis Diener, Andre Owens & 2nd rd draft picks.

AB1077
12-19-2007, 03:30 PM
Williams for Conley.

Wow, just wow!

JayRedd
12-19-2007, 03:32 PM
Williams for Conley.

Good luck with that.

Trader Joe
12-19-2007, 03:34 PM
I think it would take at least two guys on our side to get Conley.

Rajah Brown
12-19-2007, 03:52 PM
Giving up a Williams or the like isn't worth it at this point. What
difference is a solid, reliable backup PG gonna make this year
anyway ? Winning 48 games vs only winning 44-45 ?

TBTP should either try and patch that hole w/ a journeyman vet
that can be had cheaply or just forget it this year and make a
move when the draft rolls around for a talented, young prospect
coming out after this year. The kids at Texas and UCLA will
both probably be late-Lottery/mid-1st round guys.

LoneGranger33
12-19-2007, 04:06 PM
Giving up a Williams or the like isn't worth it at this point. What
difference is a solid, reliable backup PG gonna make this year
anyway ? Winning 48 games vs only winning 44-45 ?

TBTP should either try and patch that hole w/ a journeyman vet
that can be had cheaply or just forget it this year and make a
move when the draft rolls around for a talented, young prospect
coming out after this year. The kids at Texas and UCLA will
both probably be late-Lottery/mid-1st round guys.

Agreed. Although, if a decent rookie or sophmore point guard could be had for cheap, I'd go that route too. And by cheap, I mean not Shawne or Danny. Or Ike.

Unclebuck
12-19-2007, 04:16 PM
Any Combination of David Harrison, Marquis Daniels, Travis Diener, Andre Owens & 2nd rd draft picks.

I'm surprised you equate Marquis Daniels with those other players. I think Marquis is critically important to the Pacers. His ability to creat a shot when there isn't one is something this team desperately needs. The only reason IMO that he isn't playng at least 30 minutes every game is because of his fragile injury situation.

If I am even thinking about trading Daniels, I want one of the very best backup point guards in the NBA and someone who can also play regular minutes at shooting guard.

BruceLeeroy
12-19-2007, 04:16 PM
Unless it's a crazy good deal like Will suggested....no one.

Young
12-19-2007, 05:04 PM
I'd give Troy, and Travis.

Not going to get much though. Honestly I don't care who is backing up Jamaal for the 10-15 minutes a game he doesn't play. I'll bank on Travis showing us why Larry gave him 5 million dollars.

CableKC
12-19-2007, 05:17 PM
Giving up a Williams or the like isn't worth it at this point. What
difference is a solid, reliable backup PG gonna make this year
anyway ? Winning 48 games vs only winning 44-45 ?

TBTP should either try and patch that hole w/ a journeyman vet
that can be had cheaply or just forget it this year and make a
move when the draft rolls around for a talented, young prospect
coming out after this year. The kids at Texas and UCLA will
both probably be late-Lottery/mid-1st round guys.
I agree with you on your point regarding getting a "patch" to keep us afloat until the offseason.

Anyone know how much we can spend on a 1-year contract before we hit the salary cap?

Is it enough to get someone like McLeod?

I really think that TPTB is gonna see if anybody cheap comes up on the market before the Trade Deadline......if not....then I am going to guess that we live with Marquis continuing to backup Tinsley and reevaluate how well this team works after the Offseason and then make our moves then to address the team's needs.

OakMoses
12-19-2007, 05:22 PM
It really depends on who we're getting. Bird has to decide if we're getting a solid back-up vet or if we're getting Tinsley's eventual replacement. I don't really think there's much middle ground.

I'd prefer to see them trade someone like David Harrison for a solid vet who could play for a couple seasons and then grab a young PG in the first round of next year's draft. It's a strong guard draft, and it's quite likely that a guy like Josh Collison (UCLA), DJ Augustin (Texas), or Tywon Lawson (NC) will be available.

I guess my answer is that I'd give up Harrison.

If we're going to get a top-notch youngster, I might give up Williams, Granger, or Ike. By top-notch I mean someone better than Kyle Lowry. Someone like Calderon (pipe dream, I know) or Conley.

naptownmenace
12-19-2007, 05:30 PM
I think the only kind of player that's gonna be available is a Luther Head type of player and really is he better than Quis? Not defensively anyway.

I happen to think that Quis and even Dunleavy handle the job just fine when Tinsley is not on the court. I wouldn't mind them picking up or trading for a young guy who hasn't had a lot of time to prove himself but has potential as long as they can get him really cheap.

There's not a lot of good back up PGs in the NBA right now.

OakMoses
12-19-2007, 05:49 PM
Speedy Claxton
Anthony Johnson
Tyronn Lue
Jeff McInnis
Luther Head
Brevin Knight
Damon Stoudamire
Delonte West
Earl Watson

This is a very conservative list of backup level PGs who could probably be gotten via trade during this season. Every one of these guys is either not playing an important role on their current team or obviously not in their current team's future plans. Also, every one of these guys would improve our backup PG situation substantially.

Ragnar
12-19-2007, 06:12 PM
I would trade Murphy but I doubt any team would take him for a pg.


How about Murphy for Sam I am

BruceLeeroy
12-19-2007, 06:39 PM
Speedy Claxton
Anthony Johnson
Tyronn Lue
Jeff McInnis
Luther Head
Brevin Knight
Damon Stoudamire
Delonte West
Earl Watson

This is a very conservative list of backup level PGs who could probably be gotten via trade during this season. Every one of these guys is either not playing an important role on their current team or obviously not in their current team's future plans. Also, every one of these guys would improve our backup PG situation substantially.

I don't see any of those guys giving us substantially more than Marquis can. I'd consider Delonte but it depends on who we'd have to give up to get him. Other than that I'd rather give Marquis those backup PG minutes so he can get his 20+ minutes per game.

McKeyFan
12-19-2007, 07:05 PM
Several people are saying Marquis should get the minutes--he's better than the proposed backups.

But that's not the problem as I understand it. The problem is that both Tins and Quis are injury prone. I'm fine with the line-up as it is. In a perfect world, we need no trade. But if either of those guys goes down, especially Tinsley, we are in real trouble.

I think Delonte West would help a great deal, even if he's not better than Quis. He can play the 1 and the 2. And he would keep Diener and Owens off the court should injuries occur.

JayRedd
12-19-2007, 10:48 PM
Harrison and Graham for Duhon makes sense. They need a low-post offensive presence. Not sure they'll do it the way Hinrich is playing though.

kester99
12-19-2007, 11:19 PM
We have an open roster spot after rerereleasing Sims....Earl Calloway would probably come up from the Mad Ants for sandwiches-and-soft-drinks salary.

croz24
12-19-2007, 11:20 PM
hmm i'd say williams + future 1st(s) for conley...

LoneGranger33
12-19-2007, 11:28 PM
I believe Anthony Johnson is a starter.

Anthem
12-19-2007, 11:43 PM
I believe Anthony Johnson is a starter.
So does he. That's the problem.

aceace
12-19-2007, 11:46 PM
I think Quis is playing pretty well at the point. They both seem to be over the bug now. I like what Jim did tonight giving Owens a chance so he could keep the same rotation. Owens held his own I thought, with more time he could get even better.

Young
12-19-2007, 11:47 PM
Delonte West won't be dealt. I think the Sonics may be looking to deal Watson and/or Ridnour but not West though.

Speedy hasn't played any for the Hawks this season, is he injured? He is injured a lot.

For what is worth giving up (Murphy, Diener) I don't think we can get a better point guard then what we have.

I don't think it's worth giving Shawne up for. He has shown nice improvment this year and if he can continue to improve he will be a starter sooner in his career rather than later. Not a guy you wanna trade to get a backup point guard.

Could possibly deal Jeff, or David but both are valueable to us. We have had injury problems with all are bigs so it's good to have em all.

Evan_The_Dude
12-19-2007, 11:48 PM
I'm not willing to give up anybody for anything right now. It took us a while to develop this identity, we don't need to break chemistry. We have guys capable of playing the point guard. We'll be ok.

Anthem
12-19-2007, 11:49 PM
I will say that Owens looked decent out there. Much better than I expected, and better than Diener.

mb221
12-19-2007, 11:54 PM
..... Josh Collison (UCLA).....

Who?

FlavaDave
12-20-2007, 01:28 AM
I would trade Murphy or Harrison for a reliable backup. I'll take ANY PG in exchange for Murphy if the deal is expiring.

TheDon
12-20-2007, 01:31 AM
I'm not willing to give up anybody for anything right now. It took us a while to develop this identity, we don't need to break chemistry. We have guys capable of playing the point guard. We'll be ok.

I think you got it right, I think we should just deal with the guys we've got on the team. Then if some other team wants to come along that is more desperate than we are at this point and make us some insane offer we can't refuse then we'd pull the trigger. Right now though I think we will be fine with what we have.

Phildog
12-20-2007, 08:28 AM
I think you got it right, I think we should just deal with the guys we've got on the team. Then if some other team wants to come along that is more desperate than we are at this point and make us some insane offer we can't refuse then we'd pull the trigger. Right now though I think we will be fine with what we have.


No WAY we make a trade. This is our team. It's way too early to keep asking for people's heads. 2 weeks ago people were ready to crucify Rush, now he's in the the rotation and contributing every game, with great defense to boot.

I'm not buying this whole backup PG as being a "situation" at all. Quissy, Owens, and Diener can get it done in small doses. If Tinsley goes down for the year, then you bring in the vet-a la backup quarterback (Testaverde) that just keeps coming in to fill the role

OakMoses
12-20-2007, 10:06 AM
Who?

Sorry, I meant Darren Collison. That's what I get for trying to use my brain instead of ESPN.com.

McKeyFan
12-20-2007, 10:39 AM
No WAY we make a trade. This is our team.

If Tinsley goes down for the year, then you bring in the vet-a la backup quarterback (Testaverde) that just keeps coming in to fill the role

Who's this vet?

A lot of you guys are missing the real point. What happens if both Tinsley and Marquis go down?

This is not wild speculation. Both are injury prone. Are you content to have Owens/Diener fill the pg role if our two often-injured pg's can't finish the year?

Phildog
12-20-2007, 11:13 AM
Who's this vet?

A lot of you guys are missing the real point. What happens if both Tinsley and Marquis go down?

This is not wild speculation. Both are injury prone. Are you content to have Owens/Diener fill the pg role if our two often-injured pg's can't finish the year?


I'm willing to cross that bridge when it comes and not make a speculative trade for what might happen to two different people for an undisclosed amount of time that is yet to be determined :)

Dr. Goldfoot
12-20-2007, 11:15 AM
I suppose injuries should be dealt with when they arise.

McKeyFan
12-20-2007, 11:29 AM
I suppose injuries should be dealt with when they arise.

1. We can't make a trade after the deadline.

2. If we wait until we're desperate, we'll get a lot less value.

I'm not saying we should cut an open wound into ourselves. But something like Harrison for Ridnour would protect us from disaster should both Tins and Quis go down. (Again, NOT wild speculation.)

QuickRelease
12-20-2007, 11:32 AM
You know (and I'm not saying that I hope this will happen), maybe a Williams to Memphis deal that nets us Conley wouldn't be a bad thing. It can't hurt in the PR department for either franchise. The have Kyle Lowry, so maybe if the pot is sweet enough, they would budge. Anyway...just thinking out loud.

JayRedd
12-20-2007, 12:11 PM
You guys realize Memphis drafted Mike Conley 4th overall and that he turned 20 about two months ago right?

croz24
12-20-2007, 12:51 PM
You guys realize Memphis drafted Mike Conley 4th overall and that he turned 20 about two months ago right?

and you realize shawne williams (memphis born) is only 21 right? of course memphis is highly unlikely to consider a shawne + 1st(s) for conley but where someone is drafted shouldn't matter too much. memphis has been able to see what he can do and the type of potential he has, and if they feel he's expendable with navarro, lowry, and damon all in front of conley on the depth charts, then why wouldn't they consider such a deal? shawne has just as much potential as conley and draft pick(s) aren't something you just disregard...

Dr. Goldfoot
12-20-2007, 01:10 PM
with navarro, lowry, and damon all in front of conley on the depth charts, then why wouldn't they consider such a deal?


Not necessarily. Conley has been injured since Nov 17th. He was getting about 15-20 minutes a game if you discount that 5th game he left with injury. Mike Conley is the Grizzlies starting point guard for the future. Shawne Williams is collecting DNP-CD's. Draft position does matter when you're talking about such young careers. Team's don't make those kind of trades 20 games into a guys career.

Major Cold
12-20-2007, 01:21 PM
Boykins or...


Sacramento Kings


<table class="tablehead" style="clear: both;" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><th colspan="2">Incoming Players</th></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3524.jpg</td><td valign="top">Troy Murphy
Salary: $9,206,349 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 10.9 REB: 6.6 AST: 2.0 PER: 14.19
</td></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3846.jpg</td><td valign="top">David Harrison
Salary: $1,734,316 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.8 REB: 2.3 AST: 0.5 PER: 9.91
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Outgoing Players: Mike Bibby
http://assets.espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nba/sml/trans/ind.gifIndiana Pacers



<table class="tablehead" style="clear: both;" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="colhead"><th colspan="2">Incoming Players</th></tr><tr class="oddrow"><td width="35">http://assets.espn.go.com/i/nba/profiles/players/35x48/3245.jpg</td><td valign="top">Mike Bibby
Salary: $13,500,000 Years Remaining: 2
</td></tr></tbody></table>
Outgoing Players: Troy Murphy, David Harrison

Dr. Goldfoot
12-20-2007, 01:31 PM
Since when has Sacramento changed their motto to "send us your crap". Bibby will be back from surgery in the next few weeks and will immediately take his starting job back. With Moore & Miller why would they want Troy and David. They can't trade Bibby w/o getting a point guard that's why they had to pick up Beno in the 1st place.

tdubb03
12-20-2007, 01:43 PM
I'd trade Murphy for any expiring contract, regardless of position. With JO still on board, his contract is such an albatross. I don't think any GM would want Murphy's contract though. That and they could get something better than Troy Murphy for an expiring deal that large.

Murphy for Sam Cassell sounds great. If they hadn't just drafted Thornton I'd call it possible.

McKeyFan
12-20-2007, 01:45 PM
C'mon guys. All these proposed trades involving Murphy, etc., are wasting our time.

To get, you gotta give. Propose ideas that would be attractive to the other team.

tdubb03
12-20-2007, 01:49 PM
C'mon guys. All these proposed trades involving Murphy, etc., are wasting our time.

To get, you gotta give. Propose ideas that would be attractive to the other team.

That's the problem, the Pacers would have to give up too much to trade him. Because of the potential number of players that would need to be involved it would have to be a team-gutting trade. I really don't see Murphy going anywhere for the remainder of his deal.

croz24
12-20-2007, 01:52 PM
Not necessarily. Conley has been injured since Nov 17th. He was getting about 15-20 minutes a game if you discount that 5th game he left with injury. Mike Conley is the Grizzlies starting point guard for the future. Shawne Williams is collecting DNP-CD's. Draft position does matter when you're talking about such young careers. Team's don't make those kind of trades 20 games into a guys career.

thus me stating it's highly unlikely...conley was getting spot time here and there and had his own streaks of DNP-CD. the point is that memphis essentially has 4 pgs on their roster and should be willing to trade one of them. if you read the memphis msg boards, it seems as though memphis is higher on lowry than they are conley and navarro has been huge when given time. so, there really is a possibility that conley could be expendable...

OakMoses
12-20-2007, 02:11 PM
the point is that memphis essentially has 4 pgs on their roster and should be willing to trade one of them. if you read the memphis msg boards, it seems as though memphis is higher on lowry than they are conley and navarro has been huge when given time. so, there really is a possibility that conley could be expendable...

The one who's expendable is Damon Stoudamire. Memphis isn't winning many games this year and isn't going to, no matter who their PG is.

I think he'd be a perfect backup for Tins as he is a highly different type of PG. The problem is that we have no salaries that easily matchup with his. Let the losses pile up in Memphis until the all-star break and then they'll likely consider a Harrison/Stoudamire deal.

As for Bibby, right now I'd rather have Tinsley. Having them both would be ridiculous. Neither would be happy as a backup and neither can play the two.