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JayRedd
12-19-2007, 03:19 AM
Is any one else getting really concerned about this?

He's never averaged more than 32 mpg in his career (and that was only for 40 games) and has averaged 30 mpg for his career.

So far this year, he's up to 35 mpg. Okay, that's not horrible, although with his injury history even that may be playing with fire a little bit. But what's really troubling is the surge in playing time he's been getting over the last month. Look at his last 14 games:

NYK - 32:05
MIA - 37:41
TOR - 38:36
CHI - 41:34
CLE - 31:54
ORL - 38:14
PHO - 40:01
LAC - 36:41
SEA - 37:57
POR - 40:30
DEN - 39:21
CLE - 39:43
DAL - 41:17
NOR - 38:27

That's nuts. And I'm not sure it won't continue.

Aside from NYK and CLE (both blowouts in the 3rd Quarter, by the way, so there's no indication the extra rest was on purpose) we're asking a heck of a lot here. I know we have no other option...but I think we gotta find one. If not, I think we risk ruining another year for Jamaal with injuries. And, oh yeah, it's his best year ever too.

Maybe I've developed a learned helplessness as a Pacer fan, but the thought of us killing Jamaal's career year (one which could turn his contract status from "too loooooong" to "underpaid" in six months, btw) by overextending him just to win a few extra games is a dismal possibility...and unfortunately a possibility that would seem to be right in line with all the nonsense of the last few years.

Additionally, J'OB has a history of running guys into the ground. Pierce and especially 'Toine logged ridiculous minutes in Boston, and with Walker, I honestly think it cut down his prime.

Antoine MPG - Under Pitino
36:12
39:53
36:53
36:36

Antoine MPG - Under J'OB
41:53
42:00
41:30

Even Pierce, who's always been a heavy-minute guy was playing a few minutes above his career average under Jimmy. He just seems to try to squeeze that little extra out of his key guys. In theory, I have nothing wrong with that. But in history, Jamaal gets injured a lot.

I mean, on the other hand, I love the way Jamaal is playing right now and I want him out on the court as much as possible.

But I also love Snickers...But I know I can't eat them for dinner every night.

Naptown_Seth
12-19-2007, 05:14 AM
I mentioned it a few weeks ago even. I think many of us are a bit worried on that count. People always said that Rick didn't play young guys and implied that he had some tight rotation where his pets got all the PT, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Now you can starkly see the difference. 40 min nights for 2-3 guys in a single game, non-playoff?

Rick didn't even give Jackson or Ron these kinds of minutes, and those were two of his work horses. You think about the last 4 seasons and how light the PT totals were and yet they still had tons of injury issues.

JOB has always said he believes in his stars, he sees some guys as the ones who need to be doing the shooting. I think we also see that this means more PT for those guys. Honestly it's tough to blame him when you see the bench play half the time.

Definitely a tough situation. Either way you go it hurts the team because clearly they need Tins right now too.

ApNeDtRiEeW
12-19-2007, 06:21 AM
How many minutes has he missed the previous few seasons?

Making up for lost time maybe?

hoopsforlife
12-19-2007, 06:45 AM
Would you rather have him playing a supervised game or running around the streets at night?

D-BONE
12-19-2007, 08:04 AM
Only current option is more minutes for Quis at PG. First issue, Quis isn't a point-although he does a decent job.

Of course, Quis has injury issues himself so it's hard to count on his availability.

Finally, limits the Quis + Tinsley lineup minutes, which means we have to rely even more heavily on Rush to back up at SG and I'm still not confident in consistency there.

Ragnar
12-19-2007, 08:35 AM
It could be that this style of play is more conducive to Jamaal not just in what he prefers but how his body responds.

Unclebuck
12-19-2007, 08:42 AM
O'Brien has a history of playing his star players a ton of minutes - in fact that is what I was most concerned about when he was hired.

Elgin56
12-19-2007, 08:48 AM
O'Brien has a history of playing his star players a ton of minutes - in fact that is what I was most concerned about when he was hired.

I think that JOB's priority is to win now and try to get fans back into stands, besides Tins is making a ton of cash so let him earn it for a change.

purdue101
12-19-2007, 08:58 AM
JOB tends to play the starters even when the game is wrapped up, whether we are winning or losing. Jamal and the starters were in the game against the Knicks even when we had that game won. that worries me a bit with our injury history. i just don't see the point.

Phildog
12-19-2007, 09:03 AM
As long as these guys stay in shape, they can handle it. Someone mentioned Antoine Walker earlier--that guy was notorious for being out of shape, which can lead to injuries. He was great in Boston those years because O'brien forced him to be in shape.

Staying conditioned with practice should help cut down on injuries as long as an overuse effect doesn't take place. I highly doubt 3-5 extra MINUTES of an NBA game are going to take down guys careers.

You could argue that a higher chance of trauma type injuries could occur the more you are on the floor, but that's the logic behind someone driving less because the more they are on the road, the greater chance of an accident.

Continue to play the guys who deserve time Obie!!

Alabama-Redneck
12-19-2007, 09:08 AM
Hopefully, JOB is playing his key players more until everyone is familar with the system.

We are about 25% into the season, I would think by 40% all players should be on board and ready. Maybe the minutes will be reduced by then.

:cool:

gknjr007
12-19-2007, 11:14 AM
well as far as injuries go, i think jamaal faked many injuries in the past cuz he didn't like playing for our former coach..............imo

naptownmenace
12-19-2007, 01:13 PM
well as far as injuries go, i think jamaal faked many injuries in the past cuz he didn't like playing for our former coach..............imo

Thank You!

But, I felt that way when he was playing (not playing) for our former coach.

Trader Joe
12-19-2007, 01:21 PM
I have zero problem playing Tins a lot of minutes right now when he has been as effective as he has been. If he slumps a bit then give him a little extra rest for a few games. However we need a backup point guard ASAP. Hopefully we're able to find one in the next month.

wintermute
12-19-2007, 07:26 PM
jayredd must be psychic... tinsley out vs philly with a thigh bruise :eek:

i guess we're finding out tonight whether we have any other pg options on the roster

JayRedd
12-20-2007, 12:07 PM
jayredd must be psychic...


"You will have a bad dream but no harm will follow."

Your lucky numbers: 3, 14, 17, 24, 31, 45

Naptown_Seth
12-21-2007, 02:11 AM
i guess we're finding out tonight whether we have any other pg options on the roster
Hint: the answer is no


Man, I'm posting all those +/- numbers for each game and it's reminding me just how much I don't want to see Diener out there. I guess JOB agrees after not playing him at all in the Philly game despite no Tinsley.

indygeezer
12-21-2007, 06:12 AM
Two days ago on one of the local sports talk shows a caller asked Bruno about the need for a good backup to Tinsley. Brunos answer was that Yes, they are VERY aware (his emphasis not mine) of what would happen if Tins went down for any extended time.
JMPO but I had the feeling they are actively looking to correct the situation...and that is strictly based on the tone of his answer....so call it guessing on my part. edit....I'm pretty certain that was 1260 AM ...i rarely listen to 950 anymore.

Will Galen
12-21-2007, 10:11 AM
Two days ago on one of the local sports talk shows a caller asked Bruno about the need for a good backup to Tinsley. Brunos answer was that Yes, they are VERY aware (his emphasis not mine) of what would happen if Tins went down for any extended time.
JMPO but I had the feeling they are actively looking to correct the situation...and that is strictly based on the tone of his answer....so call it guessing on my part. edit....I'm pretty certain that was 1260 AM ...i rarely listen to 950 anymore.

Mark and Slick talked about this during the NY game. Slick gave an emphatic answer that the team was aware of the need.

Myself I'm not worried about how many minutes Tins gets. Anyone that has watched him over the years knows he's not the same guy this year. An injury that would be debilitating to the old Tins won't necessarily be debilitating to this new Tins simply because of mind set.

Under certain circumstances a hangnail is enough to send some people into a funk whereas at other times it wouldn't bother them. Right now Tinsley is clearly having fun and happy so most things aren't going to bother him.

So, what difference does how many minutes he gets make if he doesn't get fatigued? None that I see!

LoneGranger33
12-21-2007, 12:27 PM
Does all this mean they lost faith in Travis? I mean, Rush is starting to turn it around, give the guy another chance.