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View Full Version : Waiting to hear that Shaq's hit was upgraded to a Flagrant 2



Anthem
12-17-2007, 11:02 AM
When do we usually discover these things? Would it be announced?

Unclebuck
12-17-2007, 11:19 AM
Probably today.

I would be utterly shocked if it wasn't upgraded to a flagrant 1, and would be surprised if it isn't a flagrant #2.

If precedent means anything Shaq should be suspended a game just like Horford was when he fouled TJ Ford.

Although I really don't think Horford should have been suspended at all.

bellisimo
12-17-2007, 11:20 AM
any news on JO? I couldn't find much info on his injury

Unclebuck
12-17-2007, 11:45 AM
any news on JO? I couldn't find much info on his injury

Pacers.com had some quotes from JO saying his neck is sore and the doctors told him that it will spasm a lot over the first 24 hours. No word yet on whether he'll play or not though

sweabs
12-17-2007, 11:49 AM
Does anyone have video of the hit?

Shade
12-17-2007, 11:51 AM
Does anyone have video of the hit?

Yeah, I haven't seen it yet.

Doug
12-17-2007, 12:00 PM
The league just announced it's been changed to a "flagrant 2"... On JO. They said that Jermaine could have really injured Shaq's arm by sticking his head in the way like that. :-)

Seriously, I don't know if it will be changed or not. I think it should be. I do think that JO is pretty dang lucky he's not dead. And I am completely serious when I say that. I don't think his neck could have bent much more and not broken. Things always look worse on the replay, but that was very scary.

BillS
12-17-2007, 12:55 PM
Not going to happen since Shaq is involved.

Unclebuck
12-17-2007, 01:13 PM
Not going to happen since Shaq is involved.

Do you want to bet?

D23
12-17-2007, 01:14 PM
Does anyone have video of the hit?

http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/recaps/recap08_343_indmia.asx&video=blank&nbasite=nba

That's the game highlights video from nba.com. The foul is shown at about 55 seconds in.

Anthem
12-17-2007, 01:18 PM
http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/recaps/recap08_343_indmia.asx&video=blank&nbasite=nba

That's the game highlights video from nba.com. The foul is shown at about 55 seconds in.
Yeah, but they don't show it from the back, which is where it really looked bad.

McKeyFan
12-17-2007, 01:27 PM
Yeah, but they don't show it from the back, which is where it really looked bad.

First time I've seen it.

It looks bad from that angle too.

BillS
12-17-2007, 01:47 PM
Do you want to bet?

Sure. Pie at Perkins next party says no flagrant on Shaq for this.

Unclebuck
12-17-2007, 01:56 PM
Sure. Pie at Perkins next party says no flagrant on Shaq for this.

OK, so the bet is if the NBA doesn't upgrade it to a flagrant 1 or 2, then you win and I buy you pie. If they do upgrade it to either 1 or 2, then I win.

BillS
12-17-2007, 02:00 PM
OK, so the bet is if the NBA doesn't upgrade it to a flagrant 1 or 2, then you win and I buy you pie. If they do upgrade it to either 1 or 2, then I win.

Done. Win-win situation for me - either Shaq gets spanked or I get pie. Mmmmmmmm.

grace
12-17-2007, 02:00 PM
At best it's a flagrant one.

This is a perfect example of how Shaq is not the player he once was. Ususally when he hits a Pacer he at lest knocks a tooth out. I know how bad neck spasms are, but they're nothing compaired to what Shaq used to do to players wearing a Pacers' uniform.

Shade
12-17-2007, 02:05 PM
http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/nba/nbacom/recaps/recap08_343_indmia.asx&video=blank&nbasite=nba

That's the game highlights video from nba.com. The foul is shown at about 55 seconds in.

Thanks!

Man, I'm worried. That looks bad, especially when followed up with the charge. I really hope he didn't herniate a disc in his neck.

And it definitely should have been called a flagrant. It's starting to get to the point where I can hardly really enjoy a game anymore because I dislike the referees so much. I know officiating is far from an easy job, but more often than not these guys are just abyssmal.

aceace
12-17-2007, 02:35 PM
Whats amazing is Dick Bevetta was the lead official that night. He's usually pretty solid.

Unclebuck
12-17-2007, 02:40 PM
Whats amazing is Dick Bevetta was the lead official that night. He's usually pretty solid.

He makes a lot of calls other refs don't make. He called davis for a travel just a minute or so before the foul on JO, and I said to myself no other ref would have called the traveling on that type of play.

Tom White
12-17-2007, 03:01 PM
Do you want to bet?

Everybody thinks they're a referee

indygeezer
12-17-2007, 03:14 PM
At best it's a flagrant one.

This is a perfect example of how Shaq is not the player he once was. Ususally when he hits a Pacer he at lest knocks a tooth out. I know how bad neck spasms are, but they're nothing compaired to what Shaq used to do to players wearing a Pacers' uniform.



Just ask Travis Best.

Speed
12-17-2007, 03:19 PM
Ref or whatever, Shaq intended to clobber him, he was frustrated from earlier when he got his 5th. The whole "I was going for the block" deal like Horford used is crap to me.

You are a world class athlete and you take some guys head off, its 9 out of 10 times intentional, now I don't know what the letter of the law is as far as Flagrant 1 or 2, but if it is intent, then it was there, imo.

I like Shaq too, he's almost always been my favorite non Pacers, but he clobbered him intentionally hard.

grace
12-17-2007, 03:51 PM
Just ask Travis Best.


Or Vern Fleming. Or LaSalle Thompson. I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting. Kegboy knows the list by heart.

JayRedd
12-17-2007, 03:56 PM
Everybody thinks they're a referee

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Moses
12-17-2007, 03:59 PM
What a fat sack of crap (Shaq). Better be upgraded to at least a Flagrant 1.

Oneal07
12-17-2007, 04:41 PM
Anyone seen the lakers game last night? They called A Flagrant 1 foul on farmar when he grabbed the ARM of Magette and fell to the ground . . . Jermaine gets clubbed in the head and no flagrant foul is called lol. . . The NBA is too funny. Maybe it's the Refs

Shade
12-17-2007, 05:08 PM
Whats amazing is Dick Bevetta was the lead official that night. He's usually pretty solid.

What's truly amazing is the irony in that statement. :laugh:

Hicks
12-17-2007, 05:35 PM
Still nothing?

oneofthesedays
12-17-2007, 05:44 PM
Did anyone see the Laker game against GSW? Matt Barnes pushed Ronny Turiaf with two hands while he was going up for the dunk and threw him to the floor. No play was made on the ball, purely a malicious hit. No suspension handed down whatsoever. The NBA is a joke, don't expect them to do the right thing.

Remember when Kobe got those ridiculous 1-game supsensions last season? There is no consistency.

Anthem
12-17-2007, 05:54 PM
Or Vern Fleming. Or LaSalle Thompson. I'm sure there are more I'm forgetting. Kegboy knows the list by heart.
Brad Miller.

spreedom
12-17-2007, 06:50 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AEIj41qHjuQ

What I love is how Snaq called Vlade Divac a member of the "Flopternity," and has done nothing but flop his fat butt off since going to Miami.

pacerwaala
12-17-2007, 06:59 PM
What's truly amazing is the irony in that statement. :laugh:


I was going to post the same thing. Dick Bavetta, IMHO, is a bad NBA refree. I am very skeptical of most crucial calls he makes. It seems like he is always trying to help certain teams by killing runs made by some other teams. Last night, he called three charges on the Pacers which I thought were not so good calls.

D23
12-17-2007, 07:37 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AEIj41qHjuQ

What I love is how Snaq called Vlade Divac a member of the "Flopternity," and has done nothing but flop his fat butt off since going to Miami.

Hah, while looking at that I started watching some of the related videos and came across this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZbFVERS8Kc&NR=1

Absolutely amazing that this was ruled as a flagrant worthy of an ejection (barely even flagrant IMO), especially since Bonner walked away. Garnett and Sprewell both went after him and didn't get penalized at all. Hoooray, consistency! :bs:

D23
12-17-2007, 07:38 PM
I was going to post the same thing. Dick Bavetta, IMHO, is a bad NBA refree. I am very skeptical of most crucial calls he makes. It seems like he is always trying to help certain teams by killing runs made by some other teams. Last night, he called three charges on the Pacers which I thought were not so good calls.

I'm not sure that's the kind of irony he meant. I think it was the same kind of irony that results from Dick Harter being a solid assistant coach :) Or maybe my mind's just in the gutter and took this all way out of context.

MyFavMartin
12-17-2007, 07:53 PM
Think the NBA should have a fourth official on video replays? Not like the NFL though where the refs call something just in case and let the video overturn it or a coaches challenge... I'm thinking not only for cases of flagrants and fights but stuff like the missed three pointer against Dallas, controversial calls like charges and unclear outbounds stuff...

owl
12-17-2007, 08:33 PM
Do you want to bet?


Ahhh reminds me of the good ole days. I can still vividly see Patrick Ewing crash his elbow
into Rik Smits face and they called the foul on Smit's face.

Anthem
12-17-2007, 08:53 PM
Think the NBA should have a fourth official on video replays? Not like the NFL though where the refs call something just in case and let the video overturn it or a coaches challenge... I'm thinking not only for cases of flagrants and fights but stuff like the missed three pointer against Dallas, controversial calls like charges and unclear outbounds stuff...
Not sure it would help the game overall. Seems like it would just slow things down.

BillS
12-17-2007, 09:57 PM
OK, so the bet is if the NBA doesn't upgrade it to a flagrant 1 or 2, then you win and I buy you pie. If they do upgrade it to either 1 or 2, then I win.


Done. Win-win situation for me - either Shaq gets spanked or I get pie. Mmmmmmmm.

I'm thinking Chocolate cream. Or maybe apple crumble. Not sure which...

Shade
12-17-2007, 10:15 PM
*crickets*

All I want for Christmas is David Stern's resignation.










And a pony.

bellisimo
12-17-2007, 10:26 PM
*crickets*

All I want for Christmas is David Stern's resignation.










And a pony.


settle for this one?

http://www.worldofhorses.co.uk/horses_usa/Breeds/Images/Dartmoor_Pony.jpg

avoidingtheclowns
12-17-2007, 10:49 PM
Did anyone see the Laker game against GSW? Matt Barnes pushed Ronny Turiaf with two hands while he was going up for the dunk and threw him to the floor. No play was made on the ball, purely a malicious hit.

that is barnes' MO. here is a nice cross check on james white last season

F256m3T-qKE





All I want for Christmas is David Stern's resignation.










And a pony.

u-prMb6BdNs

Shade
12-17-2007, 10:54 PM
settle for this one?

http://www.worldofhorses.co.uk/horses_usa/Breeds/Images/Dartmoor_Pony.jpg

Hell, I'd settle for a My Little Pony if it gets Stern's ugly mug outta here.

OnlyPacersLeft
12-17-2007, 11:09 PM
we all know shaq hates jermaine....look at what he did this one time he fought haslem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDAfSRbr16c&feature=related
tryed to choke the hell out of him!

cgg
12-17-2007, 11:51 PM
we all know shaq hates jermaine....look at what he did this one time he fought haslem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDAfSRbr16c&feature=related
tryed to choke the hell out of him!

I was at that game. Good times.

MyFavMartin
12-18-2007, 12:08 AM
Miami played tonight.

Does the commissioner need to change the foul by the next game or it stands?

TheDon
12-18-2007, 12:13 AM
my question is, is if we had them review it or are these sorts of things just mandatorily reviewed reguardless? Cause if we didn't I seriously doubt anybody would even look into it cause Stern doesn't care enough about anybody not in a new york, la, chicago, or miami jersey when it comes to questionable fouls.

MyFavMartin
12-18-2007, 01:17 AM
Maybe Bird needs to get involved. Would think that his status as one of the best might get a little respect.

You wonder why Pacers fans think everyone is against them... refs, Stern, Stu Jackson.... no wonder attendance is down. Small differences can lead to different outcomes in games.... Not saying they're fixed, but seems that Ps don't get some of the calls that others do... (i.e., Shaq vs. JO, Kobe knocking out one of Grangers teeth last year and Danny getting called for the foul, LJ 4 point play, etc.)

TMJ31
12-18-2007, 01:25 AM
Miami played tonight.

Does the commissioner need to change the foul by the next game or it stands?

I do not recall where or when I heard this.

But I believe there have been a few instances these types of fouls have been changed and I remember certain people in the media commenting how the league office has to hand down these types of rulings before the team next plays (meaning before Shaq/Miami play again)

Soooo.... Either that rule is no longer in effect and we may hear something even though Miami played tonight...

OR:
They are not going to change it to a flagrant, which is just pathetic...

Unclebuck
12-18-2007, 08:34 AM
I'm thinking Chocolate cream. Or maybe apple crumble. Not sure which...

It isn't over yet.

Unclebuck
12-18-2007, 08:35 AM
Miami played tonight.

Does the commissioner need to change the foul by the next game or it stands?

No, he can still change it. They still might today - I wouldn't make any bets or anything though.

Major Cold
12-18-2007, 01:20 PM
No, he can still change it. They still might today - I wouldn't make any bets or anything though.

http://www.loebglebeonline.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/DSC01259.jpg

CableKC
12-18-2007, 02:01 PM
I still haven't seen the video on this.

Anyone have this uploaded anywhere?

Will Galen
12-18-2007, 02:04 PM
No, he can still change it. They still might today - I wouldn't make any bets or anything though.

(Giggle, giggle, snort)


OK, so the bet is if the NBA doesn't upgrade it to a flagrant 1 or 2, then you win and I buy you pie. If they do upgrade it to either 1 or 2, then I win.

grace
12-18-2007, 02:22 PM
It isn't over yet.

Yes, its over. You need to pay up with the pie before someone brings up the million $ you owe a certain former poster.

Unclebuck
12-18-2007, 02:23 PM
Yes, its over. You need to pay up with the pie before someone brings up the million $ you owe a certain former poster.

Double or nothing.

Suaveness
12-18-2007, 02:52 PM
Double or nothing? let me get in on that....

TWO pies...I don't think I could handle that much pie

avoidingtheclowns
12-18-2007, 03:26 PM
Gambling Abuse

Gambling abuse is a progressive obsession of the mind that affects a certain percentage of the population who may also suffer from other compulsive behaviors and depression. When gambling, individuals feel a high very similar to that of drug users. They get in a “zone” where fantasy pushes out reality as they imagine easy money as a result of their personal system of winning.

As compulsive gambling continues it attracts the attention of loved ones who quickly become affected by the increasing debt, perhaps the rent or mortgage isn’t paid and lies are discovered. Cash advances on secret credit cards, illegal gambling activities and physical threats if debts aren’t paid are all consequences of gambling addiction that affect more than the gambler him or herself. Everyone around the gambler feel the stress and anxiety of the self-defeating behavior.

Gambling Addiction and Dependency

If a loved one has lost the ability to control his or her gambling despite increasingly desperate debt and other consequences it is time to seek help. Gambling addiction will continue to get progressive and the obsession will eventually affect job security, marriage, custody, and basic needs of food and shelter.

At the very least the increasing shame, guilt and hopelessness of the comedown and the awful realizations that the situation continues to get worse rather than better can lead the gambler to thoughts of suicide. With proper treatment these destructive behavior patterns can be reversed and a fulfilling life can be claimed once again.

Unclebuck
12-18-2007, 03:45 PM
Gambling Abuse

Gambling abuse is a progressive obsession of the mind that affects a certain percentage of the population who may also suffer from other compulsive behaviors and depression. When gambling, individuals feel a high very similar to that of drug users. They get in a “zone” where fantasy pushes out reality as they imagine easy money as a result of their personal system of winning.

As compulsive gambling continues it attracts the attention of loved ones who quickly become affected by the increasing debt, perhaps the rent or mortgage isn’t paid and lies are discovered. Cash advances on secret credit cards, illegal gambling activities and physical threats if debts aren’t paid are all consequences of gambling addiction that affect more than the gambler him or herself. Everyone around the gambler feel the stress and anxiety of the self-defeating behavior.

Gambling Addiction and Dependency

If a loved one has lost the ability to control his or her gambling despite increasingly desperate debt and other consequences it is time to seek help. Gambling addiction will continue to get progressive and the obsession will eventually affect job security, marriage, custody, and basic needs of food and shelter.

At the very least the increasing shame, guilt and hopelessness of the comedown and the awful realizations that the situation continues to get worse rather than better can lead the gambler to thoughts of suicide. With proper treatment these destructive behavior patterns can be reversed and a fulfilling life can be claimed once again.


Oh, I know I don't have a problem, I just know it, and just to show you how sure I am I'll make a bet with you. I'll bet you $1,000 I don't have gambling problem.

Any takers. Please, I need to re-coup my losses from last time to pay my rent and car payment and what about Christmas, you wouldn't want my family to go without Christmas again would you.

SycamoreKen
12-18-2007, 08:50 PM
[QUOTE=Speed;632757]Ref or whatever, Shaq intended to clobber him, he was frustrated from earlier when he got his 5th. The whole "I was going for the block" deal like Horford used is crap to me.
QUOTE]

From everything i have read Horford wasn't trying to take him out. He even went and spent a couple hours with Ford at the hospital. It was an accident. I didn't see the Shaq thing either, but is anyone surprised nothing happened?

SamBear
12-19-2007, 02:05 AM
*crickets*

All I want for Christmas is David Stern's resignation.



And a pony.


Hell, I'd settle for a My Little Pony if it gets Stern's ugly mug outta here.

Here ya go! enjoy! :laugh:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9333/avatar214962oh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Arcadian
12-19-2007, 02:08 AM
How many times has UB made a bet and won (or paid up) on the forum?

Unclebuck
12-19-2007, 08:15 AM
How many times has UB made a bet and won (or paid up) on the forum?

I've never won, but I always pay up - if you don't believe me, we can bet.

aceace
12-19-2007, 01:26 PM
UB you could always write to the league and demand that justice be served.... Hold up a sign at the next game. "Shaq flagrant 2 - JUSTICE". You might even get on ESPN.

Shade
12-19-2007, 03:17 PM
And Stern, once again, proves what an unfair, biased *** he is.

Trader Joe
12-19-2007, 03:27 PM
UB, you need an intervention.

Unclebuck
12-19-2007, 04:18 PM
UB, you need an intervention.

Oh, I bet you that wouldn't work on me.

grace
12-19-2007, 04:40 PM
And Stern, once again, proves what an unfair, biased *** he is.


First of all is it Stern who decides what's flagrant or is it Stu Jackson (or whoever took his pace)? And exactly how fair is it that Troy Murphy got fined $10,000 and Tyrus Thomas got suspended a game?

BruceLeeroy
12-19-2007, 05:14 PM
First of all is it Stern who decides what's flagrant or is it Stu Jackson (or whoever took his pace)? And exactly how fair is it that Troy Murphy got fined $10,000 and Tyrus Thomas got suspended a game?

Thomas shoved Murphy in the face. That's an automatic ejection and usually a suspension. Even though Murph did probably instigate it and pushed Thomas twice he kept it below the neck.