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View Full Version : Kravitz: Colts players go out also, I'm shocked



Unclebuck
12-16-2007, 08:23 AM
This is shocking news to me, I figured everyone of the Colts players were home and sound asleep by 11:00 PM. Some even go to Cloud 9, on WEST 38th street.

Seriously though, thereare a lot of really good points in here, some things I hadn't considered

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071216/COLUMNISTS01/712160423&template=printart



Bob Kravitz
Colts know danger lurks, can relate to Tinsley case
December 16, 2007


As a middle-aged white suburbanite whose idea of the night life involves a Bennigan's and a movie at a local theater, the issues surrounding Indiana Pacers point guard Jamaal Tinsley's latest nocturnal close call are a little bit foreign to me.

What I do understand, though, is when you're in your 20s and 30s, and you're single, and you've got a little bit of cash in your pocket, you want to go out at night and have a good time with your friends.

So I went into the Colts' locker room this week and asked several of their players -- all black players, because they could best relate to the Tinsley situation -- how they handle the double-edged sword of fame when they go to the clubs.

They, too, go to 8 Seconds Saloon. They, too, go to Cloud 9. They, however, don't seem to get into the same kind of trouble. Sure, the Colts have had their scrapes over the years, and this is not another one of those Colts versus Pacers comparison columns, but the truth is, all of them go out, and the Pacers seem to have issues far more readily than the Colts.

So what do the Colts do right?

"We kind of have a buddy system,'' linebacker Gary Brackett said. "When we go out, there's a bunch of us, and we all have each other's backs. Even the bathroom, nobody goes alone.

"When you go out, you can't have the mind-set that everybody there is happy for your success. You can't think that you're invincible. And you can't think that you're above the law. No matter where you go, whether it's Indianapolis or somewhere else, you're going to run into guys who don't have as much to live for as you do, and they can cause problems.''

At this point, nobody's completely sure how things devolved late Saturday night into Sunday morning. Apparently there was an argument in the Cloud 9 parking lot between Tinsley's group and another group about their cars, after which Tinsley's group left to return to his condo Downtown.

Next thing you knew, Downtown Indy was turning into the Old West.

While Tinsley has thus far been cast as the victim -- and when you're dodging bullets, you're going to get that benefit of the doubt -- there's also the fact this is the third time he's been involved in a nightclub incident.

Tinsley mentioned the other day this happens to him only in Indianapolis, but if that's true, how come Colts players, who like the night life as much as any Pacers players, don't routinely end up on our front page?

"It's how you present yourself,'' said Colts running back Kenton Keith. He was not referring to Tinsley directly or indirectly, just answering a general question. "If you act all arrogant, nobody likes that, but if you're regular, you're cool with people, it's fine, but you want to make sure you have a safe outlet. You never know when people might be trying to set you up. When you go out with a bunch of other people, at least if something happens, you have witnesses.''

The moment the Tinsley story broke, the immediate reaction was, "What's he doing at a nightclub on West 38th at that hour?''

There were two inferences: First, what was he doing out so late when he had practice the next morning? I don't know about you, but when I was 29, five hours of sleep was enough.
The second inference was that West 38th is in the middle of a dicey neighborhood. And that's true, but Cloud 9, this particular club, is one of, if not the, top nightclubs serving a mostly black clientele in this city. That said, I am told you have to walk through a metal detector and get a pat-down before being allowed entry.

When I asked Brackett about athletes restricting themselves to clubs that don't have metal detectors, he looked at me quizzically and said, "If you want to go to a black club in this city, you're going through a metal detector.''

Seriously?

"Seriously,'' he said.

In a Star story Thursday, it was noted how former Pacer Reggie Miller employed security people when he went out on the town. But even that's not always a deterrent. If anything, the presence of some muscle might make things worse.

"Maybe there's a subtle bump or something happens, it might be something you can handle easily, but security might overreact and rough somebody up,'' Brackett said. "And then it gets crazy.''

Colts safety Bob Sanders said he doesn't want to send the wrong message by showing up with security.

"People look at us, we have security, they're saying, 'Who does he think he is?' '' Sanders said. "Either way, it's a lose-lose situation.''

Clearly, Tinsley has to make some lifestyle changes. In theory, he should be able to go out to a nightclub, have a few drinks, hang out with friends, and not have to feel like his life is in peril. But three times in less than a year and a half, he's found trouble -- or trouble has found him -- in the same kinds of places, in the same sets of circumstances.

For Tinsley, there might be just one workable answer.

Next time, make it a Blockbuster night.

Pacersfan46
12-16-2007, 11:09 AM
I think that Pacers are much more visible. NFL players have helmets on their heads, and I don't think people in general know who they are if they see them on the street or in the club. NBA players however....

-- Steve --

Shade
12-16-2007, 11:14 AM
So I went into the Colts' locker room this week and asked several of their players -- all black players, because they could best relate to the Tinsley situation -- how they handle the double-edged sword of fame when they go to the clubs.

:wtf:


"We kind of have a buddy system,'' linebacker Gary Brackett said. "When we go out, there's a bunch of us, and we all have each other's backs. Even the bathroom, nobody goes alone.

Kinda like Foster and Croshere, but they still manage to find a way to get into trouble. :-p


For Tinsley, there might be just one workable answer.

Next time, make it a Blockbuster night.

:laugh:

FlavaDave
12-16-2007, 11:28 AM
So I went into the Colts' locker room this week and asked several of their players -- all black players, because they could best relate to the Tinsley situation -- how they handle the double-edged sword of fame when they go to the clubs.


Oh, this makes total sense.

When white people go out, they hang out with other white people and we're all cool. But when black people hang out, they have a few bad apples, and only other black people can relate to that.

I liked the article, but that was just wrong.

That statement makes me think of this website:

www.blackpeopleloveus.com

bellisimo
12-16-2007, 11:31 AM
I guess race is still an issue in Indiana?

Will Galen
12-16-2007, 11:34 AM
Tinsley mentioned the other day this happens to him only in Indianapolis, but if that's true, how come Colts players, who like the night life as much as any Pacers players, don't routinely end up on our front page?

Easy answer. The Colts wear helmets, and other than Payton I don't think even most Indy sports fans would recognize any of them on the street. The same fans would recognize a lot of the Pacers though. Even most thugs aren't dumb enough to just hold up anyone. They would choose someone they think has money.

EDIT; What Pacersfan46 said.

Unclebuck
12-16-2007, 11:54 AM
I think there are only a couple of Colts players that people would recognize out of uniform. Manning for sure, maybe harrison, maybe Bob Sanders. Butthere are several more Pacer players that people recognize just because of the no helmet factor

JayRedd
12-16-2007, 12:01 PM
"It's how you present yourself,'' said Colts running back Kenton Keith. He was not referring to Tinsley directly or indirectly, just answering a general question. "If you act all arrogant, nobody likes that, but if you're regular, you're cool with people, it's fine, but you want to make sure you have a safe outlet. You never know when people might be trying to set you up. When you go out with a bunch of other people, at least if something happens, you have witnesses.''

While I agree with Keith here in theory...it's not even close to that simple when you're talking about NBA players.

There is one (literally) huge point that is always lost in these silly discussions about NBA players versus NFL or MLB. Yes, NBA guys are the most recognizable because they don't wear helmets/eye black and they're running around in shorts and a t-shirt on the court.

But much more importantly, these guys are GIANT HUMAN BEINGS. Jamaal Tinsley is pretty short for an NBA player...but dude is still 6'3". So he's taller than most people in Conseco Fieldhouse on any given night. And when he's hanging out anywhere -- a club, movie theater, grocery story, gas station, post office or volunteering at a soup kitcher -- along with guys like Stephen Jackson (6'8") and Marquis Daniels (6'6") they are going to stand out like a sore thumb. Throw in someone like Harrison, Foster or Jermaine and forget about it.

So they are not only immediately recognizable as rich, young, black professional athletes...they are also an absolute spectacle. Seriously, how many of you have ever seen a group of four 6'8"-plus guys together in a social situation? Outside of a basketball arena, this is a very, very, very, very rare occurrence.

So it's an entirely different discussion when you're talking about Colts. Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Joseph Addai and Dallas Clark can all hang out a at bar, and if they sort of keep to themselves in one corner of the club, they will, of course, be recognizable to many of the other patrons. Especially those in their general area.

But if JO, Quis, Harrison and Danny are in one corner of a club, the people all the way on the other side of the place can literally see them towering over the heads of everyone else. And it's a spectacle. And people will come over to see such a spectacle. And drunk people coming over to see a spectacle do stupid crap. And stupid crap starts fights.

It's different.

benjaminooo
12-16-2007, 12:01 PM
I guess race is still an issue in the world.


Fixed.

"Sad but truueeeee!"

Pacersfan46
12-16-2007, 12:03 PM
I think you guys are strange for worrying about his comment about asking black players.

Do those white players who go out .... go to Cloud 9? No? Then they wouldn't have any input in this situation anyway. He went after people who would have the most in common, or would most be able to relate to the situation.

I play basketball where I'm the only white guy in the entire building and they nag me to go out with them afterwards on Saturday night. Most of these guys live at 10th and Rural, or other area's like that. I could go on about other differences between a white bar/club versus a club where I'm virtually the only white person in the building.

Well, I'm the only white person who's aware that I'm white in that club anyway. I may dress like what people would say was someone who thinks they're black, but I don't go running around calling people the "n" word, and really actually trying to act like I am. Arg, that annoys me.

Anyway, as far as the differences I'm keeping my trap shut. If what Kravitz said bothers you, I don't know what to say. Other than you've obviously never seen the difference with your own eyes.

****EDIT**** OH, and I forgot to mention, the guys that nag me to go to those clubs, you could never drag them to Broad Ripple, or Castleton to go out. They will not go. Minus one of the guys, they truly believe that they would get in more trouble for being in Broad Ripple and being black people without money, and not being college kids than they would going to a black club.

-- Steve --

BlueNGold
12-16-2007, 12:14 PM
Obviously the fact the Colts faces are covered and are not inordinately tall...so that's a factor. However, that factor is being overstated a bit here IMO. Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning are probably as recognizable by more people in Indianapolis than Tinsley. Some of the other players are also quite recognizable. Bob Sanders, Joseph Addai and Reggie Wayne are quite recognizable. This is particularly true since MANY, MANY more in the public follow the Colts.

So, the argument that Tinsley is a victim because he's more recognizable does have legs, but only short ones.

A better analogy is to his own team mates.

Tinsley is probably less recognizable than some of his 6'8" teammates who seem to keep out of trouble. Whether it's current players like Granger, Foster, Dunleavy or particularly JO, none of them are having multiple incidents at Indy clubs last time I checked. Looking back just a few years at Reggie, Derrick McKey, Jalen Rose, Brad Miller, Rik Smits, Mark Jackson, Fred Jones, James Jones...none are perfect, but none had this number of issues...... goodness gracious, hundreds of other players in the NBA don't have multiple incidents. Some do, but they are making the wrong choices if they have strings of issues like this.

Not in the history of the franchise has there been anything like Artest, Jackson and Tinsley. You can thank each of them for bringing this franchise down.

spazzxb
12-16-2007, 12:58 PM
Obviously the fact the Colts faces are covered and are not inordinately tall...so that's a factor. However, that factor is being overstated a bit here IMO. Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning are probably as recognizable by more people in Indianapolis than Tinsley. Some of the other players are also quite recognizable. Bob Sanders, Joseph Addai and Reggie Wayne are quite recognizable. This is particularly true since MANY, MANY more in the public follow the Colts.

So, the argument that Tinsley is a victim because he's more recognizable does have legs, but only short ones.

A better analogy is to his own team mates.

Tinsley is probably less recognizable than some of his 6'8" teammates who seem to keep out of trouble. Whether it's current players like Granger, Foster, Dunleavy or particularly JO, none of them are having multiple incidents at Indy clubs last time I checked. Looking back just a few years at Reggie, Derrick McKey, Jalen Rose, Brad Miller, Rik Smits, Mark Jackson, Fred Jones, James Jones...none are perfect, but none had this number of issues...... goodness gracious, hundreds of other players in the NBA don't have multiple incidents. Some do, but they are making the wrong choices if they have strings of issues like this.

Not in the history of the franchise has there been anything like Artest, Jackson and Tinsley. You can thank each of them for bringing this franchise down.

since you felt it was time to take cheep shots at someone who just had a hit put out on him. I thought I would take the time to reiterate the point that part of this is do to a decline in the city of indianapollis. I grew up in small town indidana, and can say with full confidence our society is at least partially to blame. The players have screwed up but a lot of holier-than -now people in Indiana need to get there head out of there butt and look in the mirror. Also **** poor leadership, lack of jobs, and money will make alot of things bad. don't blame Tinsley for Indy becoming a more dangerous city.

*rant over* (written by a 20 something with european anccestery)

BlueNGold
12-16-2007, 01:29 PM
since you felt it was time to take cheep shots at someone who just had a hit put out on him. I thought I would take the time to reiterate the point that part of this is do to a decline in the city of indianapollis. I grew up in small town indidana, and can say with full confidence our society is at least partially to blame. The players have screwed up but a lot of holier-than -now people in Indiana need to get there head out of there butt and look in the mirror. Also **** poor leadership, lack of jobs, and money will make alot of things bad. don't blame Tinsley for Indy becoming a more dangerous city.

*rant over* (written by a 20 something with european anccestery)

I didn't take cheep shots. I took entirely cheap shots.

As for poor leadership, you are right. Someone acquired these guys. Now after getting smacked in the head enough times, they have gutted the talent...but I guess tearing out muscle is required to get to the cancer cells. The last bit of cancer may respond to the chemotherapy (or more specifically, an assault rifle in this case).

In any event, you are right about the downfall of the city. It is due in part due to our culture and in part by our governmental policies. However, that does not explain these incidents when other players (Colt and Pacers) don't have the same multi-incident issues.

Roaming Gnome
12-16-2007, 01:48 PM
I think you guys are strange for worrying about his comment about asking black players.

Do those white players who go out .... go to Cloud 9? No? Then they wouldn't have any input in this situation anyway. He went after people who would have the most in common, or would most be able to relate to the situation.

I play basketball where I'm the only white guy in the entire building and they nag me to go out with them afterwards on Saturday night. Most of these guys live at 10th and Rural, or other area's like that. I could go on about other differences between a white bar/club versus a club where I'm virtually the only white person in the building.

Well, I'm the only white person who's aware that I'm white in that club anyway. I may dress like what people would say was someone who thinks they're black, but I don't go running around calling people the "n" word, and really actually trying to act like I am. Arg, that annoys me.

Anyway, as far as the differences I'm keeping my trap shut. If what Kravitz said bothers you, I don't know what to say. Other than you've obviously never seen the difference with your own eyes.

****EDIT**** OH, and I forgot to mention, the guys that nag me to go to those clubs, you could never drag them to Broad Ripple, or Castleton to go out. They will not go. Minus one of the guys, they truly believe that they would get in more trouble for being in Broad Ripple and being black people without money, and not being college kids than they would going to a black club.

-- Steve --

Yes, this is a man that I feel truely gets it and the cultural differences in the situation. I applaud your post 100 times!

As for Kravitz column, good work to get another perspective on this other then the "fan reaction" the rest of the local media has been focusing on.

mb221
12-16-2007, 01:54 PM
I didn't take cheep shots. I took entirely cheap shots.

As for poor leadership, you are right. Someone acquired these guys. Now after getting smacked in the head enough times, they have gutted the talent...but I guess tearing out muscle is required to get to the cancer cells. The last bit of cancer may respond to the chemotherapy (or more specifically, an assault rifle in this case).

In any event, you are right about the downfall of the city. It is due in part due to our culture and in part by our governmental policies. However, that does not explain these incidents when other players (Colt and Pacers) don't have the same multi-incident issues.


I don't think he was talking about the leadership of the Pacers, but the leadership of the community.

BlueNGold
12-16-2007, 01:59 PM
****EDIT**** OH, and I forgot to mention, the guys that nag me to go to those clubs, you could never drag them to Broad Ripple, or Castleton to go out. They will not go. Minus one of the guys, they truly believe that they would get in more trouble for being in Broad Ripple and being black people without money, and not being college kids than they would going to a black club.

-- Steve --

That's too bad, but it's probably true. I'm proud of your friend who is willing to go. He is the one making a difference.

BlueNGold
12-16-2007, 02:04 PM
I don't think he was talking about the leadership of the Pacers, but the leadership of the community.

You're right. I realized that after posting. It was obviously a Freudian slip by me.

The failed leadership in the city has been addressed with the election. However, the problems in the city of Indianapolis are not uncommon. Many other cities, for example Milwaukee, are having more problems. This is a national issue related to our trade and immigration policies.

As for the Pacers, its debatable whether there needs to be a leadership change. I think if a poll was taken, it would be pretty split. If Bird was not so popular and/or famous, his head would be on the chopping block right now.

Arcadian
12-16-2007, 02:44 PM
That's too bad, but it's probably true. I'm proud of your friend who is willing to go. He is the one making a difference.

So are you planning on making a difference by going to black clubs?

Putnam
12-16-2007, 02:51 PM
since you felt it was time to take cheep shots at someone who just had a hit put out on him. I thought I would take the time to reiterate the point that part of this is do to a decline in the city of indianapollis. I grew up in small town indidana, and can say with full confidence our society is at least partially to blame. The players have screwed up but a lot of holier-than -now people in Indiana need to get there head out of there butt and look in the mirror. Also **** poor leadership, lack of jobs, and money will make alot of things bad. don't blame Tinsley for Indy becoming a more dangerous city.

*rant over* (written by a 20 something with european anccestery)



I don't mean to take a "cheep" shot or be "holier-than-now," but I count 21 spelling and punctuation errors in this post. Can anyone find more than that?

Trader Joe
12-16-2007, 02:51 PM
LOL at interviewing Kenton Keith. I'm not sure I could recognize that guy without his jersey on.

BlueNGold
12-16-2007, 03:04 PM
So are you planning on making a difference by going to black clubs?

I don't go to any clubs....not since you were probably in diapers. In the late 80's, no I did not go to black clubs. That's one of the reasons I admire that guy's friend. He should be admired for stepping out because whites are less likely to do so. JMHO.

BlueNGold
12-16-2007, 03:11 PM
I don't mean to take a "cheep" shot or be "holier-than-now," but I count 21 spelling and punctuation errors in this post. Can anyone find more than that?

You're really good. I only found about 14 errors.

No cheeep shot intended.

Arcadian
12-16-2007, 03:25 PM
I don't go to any clubs....not since you were probably in diapers. In the late 80's, no I did not go to black clubs. That's one of the reasons I admire that guy's friend. He should be admired for stepping out because whites are less likely to do so. JMHO.

Fair enough.

Ransom
12-16-2007, 04:01 PM
That's actually a pretty good article, but the "black players" comment at the start could probably have been worded better. He might get in trouble.

Evan_The_Dude
12-16-2007, 04:31 PM
I think he interviewed black players from the Colts because it's not all that likely that he'd find very many white players that have been to Cloud 9 or clubs like it that are marketed towards the black community. As a black person, I'm not at all offended by that. It's the truth.

avoidingtheclowns
12-16-2007, 04:35 PM
That's actually a pretty good article, but the "black players" comment at the start could probably have been worded better. He might get in trouble.

who is kravitz offending?

i don't see that at all... jamaal is a young black man, kravitz is neither young nor black. the club in question has a clientèle that falls into those categories. if you as a right-handed person wanted to know how it felt for a left-handed person to live in a right-handed world, you wouldn't ask right-handed people. could jeff saturday accurately tell kravitz how it must feel to be young, black and rich in indianapolis? i don't see what kravitz wrote as insensitive at all.

EDIT: i suppose i could have simply said Evan_the_Dude FTW

rexnom
12-16-2007, 04:41 PM
Oh, this makes total sense.

When white people go out, they hang out with other white people and we're all cool. But when black people hang out, they have a few bad apples, and only other black people can relate to that.

I liked the article, but that was just wrong.

That statement makes me think of this website:

www.blackpeopleloveus.com (http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com)
I think what he means is that black players can better react to it because, like it or not, the Indy fans tend to have a bigger reaction to black players going to clubs and staying out late and buying cars than they do to white players. I don't get what the big deal is. People's reactions here make me think of www.blackpeopleloveus.com. Race is a HUGE issue in this country and in sports. And a lot of people choose to ignore that. Kravitz does not. I have no problem with that statement or the article. Good piece.

spazzxb
12-16-2007, 06:54 PM
I don't mean to take a "cheep" shot or be "holier-than-now," but I count 21 spelling and punctuation errors in this post. Can anyone find more than that?


Wow, you must have used more time reading it than I did writing it. Anyways it was a rant, we had someone shot to death at a family video, at 7pm a couple nights ago in a decent part of town here in fort wayne . I have no room to speak about the deteriation of society in Indy specificly becuase it is happening everywhere, however don't blame tinsley for a degenerate who tried to kill him. That thug is probably a local.

FlavaDave
12-16-2007, 07:05 PM
I think what he means is that black players can better react to it because, like it or not, the Indy fans tend to have a bigger reaction to black players going to clubs and staying out late and buying cars than they do to white players. I don't get what the big deal is. People's reactions here make me think of www.blackpeopleloveus.com. Race is a HUGE issue in this country and in sports. And a lot of people choose to ignore that. Kravitz does not. I have no problem with that statement or the article. Good piece.



I've approached this answer many different times, and every time I type something I stopped myself before I went down a road where I end up writing a 25,000 word paper. So this isn't the totality of my argument. I'll hold myself to two points:

-The two biggest problems facing athletes in regards to their safety are their wealth and their fame. Their personalities, my guess is, is third. Race is pretty far down. Last I checked, the ENTIRE Colts roster has avoided trouble, and the Colts have, to say the least, quite a few black players.

-The fact that white Colts players wouldn't have any valuable advice for avoiding trouble is absurd.

I can appreciate the nuance of adding race to this particular equation. And I'm not calling Kravitz a racist. This is a subtle thing. And it isn't a huge deal.

Okay, I'm stopping myself again. I've got friends over and they are begging me to eat. So I'll take a stab at summing this up: The idea that white players couldn't understand and relate to Tinsley's situation (and vice versa) is stupid. It isn't the end of the world and I'm not calling for Kravitz' head. It just simply made me roll my eyes.

Anthem
12-16-2007, 08:27 PM
"We kind of have a buddy system,'' linebacker Gary Brackett said. "When we go out, there's a bunch of us, and we all have each other's backs. Even the bathroom, nobody goes alone.
:laugh: Ok, did anybody else think of all of the Colts players in a kindergarten?


"When you go out, you can't have the mind-set that everybody there is happy for your success.
Sad but true.


but you want to make sure you have a safe outlet. You never know when people might be trying to set you up. When you go out with a bunch of other people, at least if something happens, you have witnesses.'
Marquis / Owens / Jack / Snap?


When I asked Brackett about athletes restricting themselves to clubs that don't have metal detectors, he looked at me quizzically and said, "If you want to go to a black club in this city, you're going through a metal detector.''

Seriously?

"Seriously,'' he said.
Interesting.

bellisimo
12-17-2007, 07:34 AM
I don't know about you guys but I tend to stay away from clubs with metal detectors...if its attracting the type of crowd who would bring in some weapons to the place which warrants its need for metal detectors...its not worth going there...

then again that was my excuse for not going to school...parents never bought into it :P

Naptown_Seth
12-18-2007, 12:09 AM
Bob's comment isn't really that out of line, as shown by the reaction from guys like Brackett. Both sides understand that there is a truth to this, that there is such a thing as a "black" club with different standards and issues (ie, crime that warrants metal detectors).

But at the same time it also shows an attitude that just won't die and goes 100% counter to the desegregation and racial equality movement. That goal will never be reached as long as there are still "black" clubs and a way of speaking/dressing "black" as P46 refers to. Cosby, Powell, etc are black too, how they dress or speak or whatever is also a "black thing". That's the point of equality, you can be anything you want without it being tied to the color of your skin.

Some day the question will be about where do all the D-backs go or the O-Lineman or the guys into R&B (without black inference) or the guys into country (you know, like Karl Malone, a classic s***kicker if there ever was one), rather than "the black guys".

And this means from BOTH sides.

Until that time is reached there is going to be truth behind comments/questions like Bob's.


As for Colts vs Pacers - helmet, height. At a Colts game even my non-sports buddy noticed Rik Smits ("look at this tall MFer", true story). But at a Pacers game you could sit almost right next to a Colt and not notice them. I sat next to Dilger and Scot Pollard one night and barely recognized KD, and even then only because I knew his face rather than him standing out by size.

McClintic Sphere
12-18-2007, 09:27 PM
Are you guys kidding with the 'most people wouldn't recognize the Colt's players' as to why they don't get in trouble more? Droves of people would recognize most of the better known players instantly, especially since all of their games are televised on broadcast TV as opposed to cable only with the P's. Most pro football players would stick out like a sore thumb. Give them some credit for keeping their noses clean.

Anthem
12-18-2007, 11:26 PM
Droves of people would recognize most of the better known players instantly, especially since all of their games are televised on broadcast TV as opposed to cable only with the P's.
17 games a year instead of 82+playoffs? Do the math, dude.


Are you guys kidding with the 'most people wouldn't recognize the Colt's players' as to why they don't get in trouble more?

How many of these guys would you recognize if they walked into your bar? There are 62 names on this list.

Addai, Joseph
Archer, Brandon
Aromashodu, Devin
Bethea, Antoine
Boiman, Rocky
Brackett, Gary
Brock, Raheem
Bullitt, Melvin
Charleston, Jeff
Clark, Dallas
Coe, Michael
Condren, Brannon
Dawson, Clifton
Dawson, Keyunta
Diem, Ryan
Federkeil, Daniel
Fletcher, Bryan
Freeney, Dwight
Gandy, Dylan
Giordano, Matt
Gonzalez, Anthony
Guzman, Ramon
Hagler, Tyjuan
Hall, Roy
Harrison, Marvin
Hayden, Kelvin
Hilliard, Corey
Hughes, Dante
Jackson, Marlin
Jennings, Tim
Johnson, Charlie
Johnson, Ed
Keiaho, Freddie
Keith, Kenton
Klecko, Dan
Lawton, Luke
Lilja, Ryan
Manning, Peyton
Mathis, Robert
McFarland, Anthony
Moorehead, Aaron
Morris, Rob
Pitcock, Quinn
Ratliff, Keiwan
Reid, Darrell
Rushing, T.J.
Sanders, Bob
Saturday, Jeff
Scott, Jake
Seidman, Mike
Session, Clint
Smith, Hunter
Snow, Justin
Sorgi, Jim
Thomas, Josh
Thorpe, Craphonso
Toudouze, Michael
Ugoh, Tony
Utecht, Ben
Vinatieri, Adam
Wayne, Reggie
Worsley, Victor

AB1077
12-18-2007, 11:36 PM
How many of these guys would you recognize if they walked into your bar?

I counted 18, so a little less than 1/3.



Wait...did I just answer a rhetorical question? I hate when I do that!:)

Anthem
12-18-2007, 11:41 PM
I counted 18, so a little less than 1/3.

Wait...did I just answer a rhetorical question? I hate when I do that!:)
:laugh: Hey, don't be too hard on yourself. What would life be like with no rhetorical questions?

grace
12-18-2007, 11:42 PM
How many of these guys would you recognize if they walked into your bar? There are 62 names on this list.

Addai, Joseph
Boiman, Rocky*
Brackett, Gary
Clark, Dallas
Fletcher, Bryan
Freeney, Dwight
Gonzalez, Anthony*
Harrison, Marvin
Manning, Peyton
McFarland, Anthony
Moorehead, Aaron
Morris, Rob
Sanders, Bob
Saturday, Jeff
Smith, Hunter
Sorgi, Jim*
Utecht, Ben
Vinatieri, Adam
Wayne, Reggie

*Maybe I wouldn't recognize them in a bar, but when they're interviewed on TV I know who they without having to be told.

Anthem
12-18-2007, 11:58 PM
So 18 for AB and 19 for grace.

JayRedd
12-19-2007, 01:08 AM
So 18 for AB and 19 for grace.

11 for the out-of-towner, serious NFL fan.

Arcadian
12-19-2007, 01:32 AM
I'd recognize Payton Manning and think every short ripped black dude with dreads was Bob Sanders.

I wouldn't recognize any LA football players unless Eric Dickerson counts.

To be fair I think people are only saying that Basketball players stand out more because of their height. You know giraffes are easier to find at zoos than other well behaved, average sized animals.

RWB
12-19-2007, 09:51 AM
17 games a year instead of 82+playoffs? Do the math, dude.



How many of these guys would you recognize if they walked into your bar? There are 62 names on this list.

Addai, Joseph
Archer, Brandon
Aromashodu, Devin
Bethea, Antoine
Boiman, Rocky
Brackett, Gary
Brock, Raheem
Bullitt, Melvin
Charleston, Jeff
Clark, Dallas
Coe, Michael
Condren, Brannon
Dawson, Clifton
Dawson, Keyunta
Diem, Ryan
Federkeil, Daniel
Fletcher, Bryan
Freeney, Dwight
Gandy, Dylan
Giordano, Matt
Gonzalez, Anthony
Guzman, Ramon
Hagler, Tyjuan
Hall, Roy
Harrison, Marvin
Hayden, Kelvin
Hilliard, Corey
Hughes, Dante
Jackson, Marlin
Jennings, Tim
Johnson, Charlie
Johnson, Ed
Keiaho, Freddie
Keith, Kenton
Klecko, Dan
Lawton, Luke
Lilja, Ryan
Manning, Peyton
Mathis, Robert
McFarland, Anthony
Moorehead, Aaron
Morris, Rob
Pitcock, Quinn
Ratliff, Keiwan
Reid, Darrell
Rushing, T.J.
Sanders, Bob
Saturday, Jeff
Scott, Jake
Seidman, Mike
Session, Clint
Smith, Hunter
Snow, Justin
Sorgi, Jim
Thomas, Josh
Thorpe, Craphonso
Toudouze, Michael
Ugoh, Tony
Utecht, Ben
Vinatieri, Adam
Wayne, Reggie
Worsley, Victor


I think maybe I would recognize Mike Coe. Not sure about any of those other guys.

Unclebuck
12-19-2007, 10:14 AM
I would recognize 7 of the Colts players. But I would recognize all 14 or 15 of the Pacers.

Oh sure there might be a couple of Colts players that I would look at and think that might be a Colts player, but I wouldn't be sure .

JayRedd
12-19-2007, 10:26 AM
Additionally, the Colts probably lead the League in "recognizable players" as far as a national audience is concerned.

Maybe New England. But they really only have Tom, Randy, Bruschi, Seau, and Rodney for sure. Maybe you could make the case for Adalius (scar?), Seymour, Welker, Maroney, Vrabel and Samuel, but I doubt Joe Six Pack knows what those guys look like without a helmet.

avoidingtheclowns
12-19-2007, 10:42 AM
i would think the bengals would be the most recognizable team in the NFL because you have Chad, Carson and then the rest of the team with their pictures hanging in most every post-office in the country.

McClintic Sphere
12-19-2007, 11:37 AM
17 games a year instead of 82+playoffs? Do the math, dude.

Do you want to compare the Nielson ratings of all those cable Pacers games combined vs. say the New England vs. Indy NFL game which was probably watched by more viewers than all of the Pacers games combined? Oh and, there are 53 roster players on the Colt's also, compared to 15 for the P's. That is a helluva lot more chances to get in trouble (if you're into math, dude.)



How many of these guys would you recognize if they walked into your bar? There are 62 names on this list.

I would personally recognize just about every one of these guys instantly, not to mention the fact that they are generally about 3x the size of your average human being. I don't know if you got the memo, but the Colt's are insanely popular in Indy.