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gummy
12-12-2007, 03:34 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3151079

INDIANAPOLIS -- Jamaal Tinsley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3528) appears calm and under control in surveillance videos taken after the Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind) guard and his entourage were shot at in a parking lot outside a five-star hotel over the weekend.
Tinsley was not injured, but Pacers equipment manager Joey Qatato was shot in both elbows at the Conrad Hotel early Sunday morning in downtown Indianapolis.

Police said the trouble started at a nightclub on the city's west side. Tinsley's group had arrived at the "Cloud 9" club in a Mercedes, a Rolls Royce and a Dodge Charger, all owned by Tinsley. A group gathered around the Rolls Royce and harassed Tinsley about his cars and his earnings.

After leaving the club, the group realized a car carrying at least four people and a pickup truck with at least two people were following them, said Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Sgt. Paul Thompson. When they pulled into the hotel parking lot, someone in the truck opened fire with a .223 caliber assault rifle, spraying bullets on the hotel, Tinsley's cars and nearby buildings.

Qatato was struck while sitting with Tinsley in the Rolls-Royce. Qatato, 48, was taken to Methodist Hospital, treated and released.

Following the shootings, Tinsley's entourage drove to the hotel entrance. Police released surveillance videos, with no sound, taken at the hotel. The timeline after the initial shootings, according to the clock on the video:

3:42 a.m.: Tinsley's Rolls-Royce pulls up in front of the Conrad. Four men get out, Qatato is last.
3:43: Qatato walks into the hotel with his shirt around his elbows to stop the bleeding.
3:44: Tinsley and another man who had been in the Rolls-Royce enter the lobby but quickly leave. The Mercedes drives up, two men get out and Tinsley points up the street in the direction the truck had headed. Qatato sits down in the lobby and is attended to by hotel employees. Clearly shaken and nervous, he is instructed to put his feet up on a chair.
3:45: Tinsley's Charger arrives, and both the Charger and the Mercedes turn north onto Illinois Street, apparently to follow the truck, while Tinsley remains behind with Qatato.
3:49: A police officer arrives at the Conrad lobby; at 3:51 an exasperated Tinsley is seen walking with both hands on his head.
3:53: An ambulance arrives for Qatato.

According to police, while pursuing the pickup truck, Tinsley's brother James fired shots with a 9 millimeter handgun. There were at least three guns in Tinlsey's group, all of which were legal. Though police didn't say Jamaal Tinsley was carrying a gun, he does have a permit, as does his brother.

According to a 911 call, multiple shots were fired before Tinsley's group entered the Conrad.

"As far as I could tell, because I wasn't listening for it, six or seven," a Conrad employee told police.

Thompson said detectives told him there were five bullet holes in the Charger, "a bunch" in the Rolls-Royce and none in the Mercedes.
James Tinsley hasn't been charged for firing a handgun because the incident is still under investigation, Thompson said.
Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=adande_ja&page=Tinsley-071211

We've come to the stage where we point the finger of blame at the victims, when even the target of a shooting says, essentially, "My bad." All of this after we learned that sometimes the safe decision can get you killed just as easily.

The Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind) questioned guard Jamaal Tinsley's judgment following a nightclub argument that led to his cars getting shot up early Sunday morning. Tinsley himself said he made a "stupid mistake."

Being out at 3 a.m. in an area that is not among Indianapolis' top neighborhoods might not be the best move. But in a year that saw Eddy Curry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3514) and Antoine Walker (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3112) tied up and robbed in their own homes, and Sean Taylor shot and killed by burglars who broke in while he was tucked under the covers with his girlfriend and daughter, can we really say there are crime-free zones? Haven't we learned to step back and take a breath after initial speculation implied that Taylor had it coming to him?

Sure, Tinsley took a calculated risk. But I don't think anyone could have envisioned his actions culminating with shots fired from an assault rifle.

One simple line from the Indianapolis Star's account of the Tinsley incident stood out: "Tinsley's attackers took issue with his luxury cars -- a Rolls-Royce, Mercedes CL6 and Dodge Charger -- and his wealth, police said."
If that's true, someone needs to explain what Tinsley did wrong. I don't believe an athlete's driving a nice car is an invitation to get shot any more than I believe a woman's wearing skimpy clothing is an invitation to get raped.

It's understandable that someone making more than $6 million would buy expensive cars. And he should be able to drive them out of the garage. Money should be liberating, not restricting. There's no need for Tinsley to barricade himself in a room like Howard Hughes.

Tinsley might have been a victim of location. Smaller towns don't always provide the option of going to a good place or a bad place. Sometimes your only choice is the place. When there's only one spot, you'll find every element there.

When I was in Indianapolis for the 2000 NBA Finals between the Lakers and Pacers, I went to a club recommended by a Pacers player. By the time I got there the party was already over. There had been a fight, the police shut things down and everyone was just milling around the parking lot. You're not as likely to get those results at the places players hang in New York or L.A.

But crime can happen anywhere. I'm reminded of something former Temple coach John Chaney said: "You can never end stupidity. Never." It knows no boundaries, can't be contained. Over the past couple of years there have been a series of robberies (http://www.westlaonline.com/2007/07/burglary-spree-.html) in some of the best, ritziest neighborhoods in Los Angeles. The solution isn't always simple. Hire security? Well, this report (http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/ps/20050105/110492057503.htmll) noted that an investigation into robberies in Orange County led to the arrests of two armed guards.

What's sad is when the behavior of the law-abiders mirrors the behavior of the lawbreakers.

When I saw Floyd Mayweather clowning around and waving stacks of cash on HBO's "Mayweather-Hatton 24/7" show, it took me right back to the pictures I'd seen only a few days before: those shots of Sean Taylor's alleged killers flashing wads of money on their MySpace pages.

Any time I see someone holding a large wad of cash, I don't think that person is rich. I think he's stupid. If that money is in his hand, it means it's not in an account somewhere, earning even more money. I heard Mayweather say that he flashes his cash for the camera to show kids they can get rich a legitimate way, through sports, instead of through crime. There's a little something to that, but if he really wanted to set a good example, he'd have the cameras follow him to a meeting with his accountant. They could go over his investment portfolio, look at a few pie charts and bar graphs, and track his assets. Maybe that isn't compelling television, but at least it shows the way it should be done. Not only is that smarter, it's safer. People don't get jacked for their monthly statements.

The problem is that far more people share Mayweather's love of material things than they do his talent and work ethic. When he mocked Ricky Hatton's fans by changing the lyrics to their incessant song, he wasn't kidding. There's only one Mayweather. He's the best in his sport, one of the most phenomenal athletes of our time.

So the lazy ones don't even bother to try. They don't want to put in the effort it takes to become a Floyd Mayweather, Sean Taylor or Jamaal Tinsley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3528). They want the shortcut. They grab a gun instead of a gym bag. They're the ones who deserve our contempt.

J.A. Adande joined ESPN.com as an NBA columnist in August 2007 after 10 years with the Los Angeles Times. Click here (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=16861) to e-mail J.A.

Trader Joe
12-12-2007, 03:36 PM
So the lazy ones don't even bother to try. They don't want to put in the effort it takes to become a Floyd Mayweather, Sean Taylor or Jamaal Tinsley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3528). They want the shortcut. They grab a gun instead of a gym bag. They're the ones who deserve our contempt.

J.A. Adande joined ESPN.com as an NBA columnist in August 2007 after 10 years with the Los Angeles Times. Click here (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=16861) to e-mail J.A.

Adande is spot on with what he writes right there.

Putnam
12-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Tinsley might have been a victim of location. Smaller towns don't always provide the option of going to a good place or a bad place. Sometimes your only choice is the place. When there's only one spot, you'll find every element there.

When I was in Indianapolis for the 2000 NBA Finals between the Lakers and Pacers, I went to a club recommended by a Pacers player. By the time I got there the party was already over. There had been a fight, the police shut things down and everyone was just milling around the parking lot. You're not as likely to get those results at the places players hang in New York or L.A.


As it turns out, Cloud 9 is the only place open in Indianapolis after midnight, so Tinsley and Co, had to go there. they didn't have a choice, because Indianapolis is sooo small.

gummy
12-12-2007, 03:57 PM
As it turns out, Cloud 9 is the only place open in Indianapolis after midnight, so Tinsley and Co, had to go there. they didn't have a choice, because Indianapolis is sooo small.

Yes, well - that part was a little ridiculous.

jeffg-body
12-12-2007, 04:21 PM
I have to agree that a lot of people jumped to conclusions because of Jamaal's past issues. My question is what is so bad about a young single man out on the town going to a club? If he was just another regular guy who lays drywall or something like that most people wouldn't care as long as he was driving sober.

Also, I live around the Indy area and I know there are clubs open past midnight.

Roaming Gnome
12-12-2007, 04:23 PM
Reading between the lines, I can see where Adende was going with his comment that Putnam highlighted. Honestly, he was not that far off in his comments. No, I'm not saying Indy only has one night club because it's so small... I'm saying Indy's urban night clubs are usually located in areas of town that cater to many different types of people from the wealthy to the low end slimeball looking to take advantage of the situation.

Bottom line, I agree with J. A. Andande's column 100%.

Anthem
12-12-2007, 04:40 PM
That's just one article. What's the other?

bellisimo
12-12-2007, 04:51 PM
That's just one article. What's the other?

its two - one is by AP :)

bellisimo
12-12-2007, 04:52 PM
more than anything this is just going to make it that much harder for us to lure in any Free Agents with all these incidents... :(

McKeyFan
12-12-2007, 05:04 PM
Today's lesson?

Drive a Mercedes.


;)

avoidingtheclowns
12-12-2007, 05:18 PM
Today's lesson?

Drive a Tercel.


fixed

rexnom
12-12-2007, 05:33 PM
Tercel - yikes.

bellisimo
12-12-2007, 05:50 PM
nothing says safety like...

http://sam.carana.googlepages.com/trabant10.jpg/trabant10-full.jpg

Evan_The_Dude
12-12-2007, 05:58 PM
As it turns out, Cloud 9 is the only place open in Indianapolis after midnight, so Tinsley and Co, had to go there. they didn't have a choice, because Indianapolis is sooo small.


He's actually right about that in comparison to larger cities like Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles. I said something similar in a different thread... "Even though there was more crime in Oakland, Ca. when I lived there, I was never afraid to live there. I'm becoming afraid to live in Indianapolis".

Naptown_Seth
12-13-2007, 03:42 PM
Yes, well - that part was a little ridiculous.
Not really, not when your reference is Chicago, LA, NY, Boston, Miami, San Fran and so on.

Relatively speaking you can go a lot of miles after midnight and not see very much open in this city. When I moved back from Houston I was a little freaked out while driving in the lonely, darkened stretch of 465 on the NW side, relative to what I'd been used to in Texas (ie, no stretch without something open all the time).


Man, the video and descriptions make this more scary to me, and it already bothered me.