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View Full Version : Tinsley calls incident a "stupid mistake"-IndyStar



Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 02:55 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071210/SPORTS04/712100407

A couple quotes from Tins...




“I have to do things smarter and put myself in a better situation,” Tinsley told media at Conseco Fieldhouse. “Night clubs and alcohol and guns late at night, I put myself in a tough position.”

Tinsley said he was concerned for his life as two of his three cars were hit with bullets.

“Every athlete should be,” he said. “Using my example, I may not have been here, but the man upstairs gave me another opportunity to see another day. When athletes step out anything can happen.”

MagicRat
12-10-2007, 03:00 PM
http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/14811496/detail.html

INDIANAPOLIS -- Indiana Pacers coach Jim O'Brien said Monday that the team will not punish Jamaal Tinsley (http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/14811496/detail.html#) for his involvement in a shooting in front of a downtown hotel.Tinsley met with O'Brien and team president Larry Bird (http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/14811496/detail.html#) a day after the guard and several companions were targeted in the early Sunday morning shooting that wounded the team's equipment manager. Police said the shooting followed a confrontation at a nightclub.

O'Brien said if the situation is as Tinsley describes, there will be no penalties and that the player has the right to stay out late. Tinsley was back at practice after the meeting, but Bird was not available.

Tinsley, who wasn't injured, apologized to his family, teammates and fans and said what he did was stupid. He said he understands that NBA players are targets and that he will change the way he makes decisions.

It was Tinsley's third late-night episode in about 14 months, and the latest in a three-year string of incidents that have engulfed the franchise.

"This is something we can't just put right behind us and walk away from," Bird said Sunday. "It's something we'll have to discuss. I don't know how long it'll take and we'll continue to talk about it. We have to make a change, there's no question about it."

able
12-10-2007, 03:06 PM
Indiana Pacers point guard Jamaal Tinsley said today that he made a “stupid mistake” again by being in an unsafe environment early Sunday morning.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071210/SPORTS04/712100407

Tinsley was involved in a shooting incident outside of a Downtown hotel after leaving a Westside club.

Coach Jim O'Brien said today that the Pacers will not punish Tinsley.

“I have to do things smarter and put myself in a better situation,” Tinsley told media at Conseco Fieldhouse. “Night clubs and alcohol and guns late at night, I put myself in a tough position.”
Tinsley said he was concerned for his life as two of his three cars were hit with bullets.

“Every athlete should be,” he said. “Using my example, I may not have been here, but the man upstairs gave me another opportunity to see another day. When athletes step out anything can happen.”

Tinsley practiced with the team today and he’ll be in the lineup for Tuesday’s game at Cleveland.
12:10 p. m. -- Hotel alerted 911 to Tinsley incident
Police today released the audio of a 911 call between dispatchers and staff of the Conrad Hotel during this weekend's shooting involving Indiana Pacers player Jamaal Tinsley.
In the recording, dispatchers called the Conrad after they received an incomplete call for help. A hotel manager said someone fired 6 to 7 shots and that a gunshot victim was inside their lobby.
"We have a guy who has apparently been hit," the manager tells a 911 dispatcher.
Pacer officials were to meet with Tinsley this morning, the team said on its Web site.
On Sunday, Indiana Pacers team leaders publicly admonished Tinsley for being out at a time and place that put him in harm's way -- in the sights of someone wielding an assault rifle -- and said it's time for professional athletes to make "smarter" decisions.
Someone in a group of people fired on cars carrying Tinsely and his friends outside the Conrad Hotel in Downtown Indianapolis early Sunday. Pacers equipment manager Joey Qatato was shot in both elbows.
Two of Tinsley's three vehicles were pocked with bullet holes and his brother, James Tinsley, apparently returned fire with a gun he carried legally.
It wasn't known whether anyone in the other group was injured, and Pacers officials said they were grateful no one was hurt worse or killed.
No one was arrested in connection with the shootings, but a man with Tinsley was taken into custody on an outstanding out-of-state warrant.
Sunday's incident is the third club-related episode to involve Tinsley in a little more than a year and comes on the heels of other violent incidents involving sports figures nationally.
Coach Jim O'Brien, Pacers President Larry Bird and player and team leader Jermaine O'Neal responded to the incident later Sunday.
O'Brien characterized Tinsley as a "victim (who) wasn't out there causing problems," but said Tinsley should not have been in that situation at 3 a.m.
"But that's a decision that was made, and it was the wrong decision to make," O'Brien said. "I would think as we all suspect, nothing good happens after 1 o'clock if you're around alcohol or around an environment where there could be weapons."
Tinsley was excused from practice Sunday but is expected to attend practice today. The Pacers play at Cleveland on Tuesday.
Sgt. Paul Thompson, a spokesman for the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department, said the incident began at the nightclub Cloud 9, 5150 W. 38th St.
Members of Tinsley's group said people in another group harassed them about Tinsley's expensive cars -- a Mercedes, Rolls-Royce and Dodge Charger -- and the amount of money he made.
Tinsley's group left the club and headed for Tinsley's Downtown condominium but soon realized they were being followed by a gray Chrysler and a dark pickup truck, Thompson said. They pulled into the Conrad Hotel because they thought it would be safer, he said.
The shooting began about 3:40 a.m., after both groups reached the hotel, Thompson said. After Qatato was shot, he went inside, where Conrad employees called emergency medical services and police.
Qatato had been sitting with Tinsley in the player's Rolls-Royce. A Methodist Hospital spokesperson said Qatato was released Sunday afternoon after being treated. Tinsley, in the front passenger seat, was not injured.
Two of the three vehicles in Tinsley's group followed the shooters to Monument Circle, and James Tinsley returned fire. It was not known whether anyone was hit. James Tinsley had a gun permit, Thompson said.
Jamaal Tinsley was not involved in the chase, Thompson said.
No Conrad employees witnessed the shooting, but a few were on duty inside the lobby when it occurred. Those who assisted Qatato were not allowed to comment due to hotel policy.
At least three bullets struck Tinsley's Rolls-Royce, including one in the windshield and two in the driver's door window. The Charger had five bullet holes, Thompson said.
The suspected weapon is a .223 assault rifle, Thomas said, adding police had no suspects, and investigators continue to look for the two vehicles driven by those who shot at Tinsley's group.
Police arrested Antoine Toon, 31, a member of the Tinsley group who was wanted on an unrelated Georgia warrant for dealing a controlled substance.
Thompson said it's too soon to know if others in Tinsley's group will face charges.
Bird, already trying to clean up his team's image tarnished by a series of controversies, said the team is gathering information about the incident.
But he said Tinsley will be "punished" if it turns out he's at fault. O'Brien said there's no curfew for players and the team has no intention of enforcing one.
"With Jamaal, it's just 'Why are you out at 3:30 in a place like that?' I don't really have a problem with guys being out till 3:30, but you've got to know your surroundings," Bird said. "Obviously, it's time for these guys to take a look at everything that's happened throughout our league, throughout professional sports, and step back and take a hard look at it and make smarter decisions."
Jermaine O'Neal said Sunday's incident was another warning to athletes that they can become targets.
Sunday was the team's third club-related incident in a little more than a year. Tinsley was present but not charged at a Westside strip club when former Pacer Stephen Jackson fired a gun in the air and was hit by a car on Oct. 6, 2006. Tinsley and teammate Marquis Daniels are due in court Jan. 14 on charges stemming from a bar fight at the 8 Seconds Saloon on Feb. 6. A grand jury indicted Tinsley on a felony charge of intimidation, and misdemeanor counts of battery, disorderly conduct and intimidation from the Feb. 6 incident. Daniels is charged with battery and disorderly conduct, both misdemeanors
.
__________________

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 03:08 PM
Thanks able. I couldn't get the darn thing to copy and paste correctly.

rexnom
12-10-2007, 03:15 PM
Could this be a good thing for Tinsley and the Pacers?

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 03:19 PM
Could this be a good thing for Tinsley and the Pacers?

On the surface, guns and Pacers are probably not a good thing especially with the way the local media was handling it. Every ten o'clock news promo I saw yesterday had the same lead in line "Gun fire linked to Pacers point guard" or something like that. It was irresponsible journalism at its finest.
However if the Pacers PR department handles it correctly (which I would find pretty shocking) they have a chance to endear Tinsley to the city. Imagine if Tins started an organization to keep guns and violence off the streets of Indianapolis. Or something of that nature. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I really think an organization or foundation/fundraiser type thing could really work well for the Pacers and Tinsley.

JayRedd
12-10-2007, 03:29 PM
Could this be a good thing for Tinsley and the Pacers?

No.

There is no way.

This is again bad for all the same reasons that the last two "In Da Club" incidents were bad. Possibly worse. Or equipment manager got shot. Twice.

Yes, all the details thus far show that Jamaal Tinsley did very little that was in any way wrong, but only dorks like us who frequent Pacers message boards are going to care about or remember -- or even read -- the details.

To everyone else, the story is only "Indiana Pacers," "Jamaal Tinsley," "guns," "car chase," "guy shot," "again."

Major Cold
12-10-2007, 03:36 PM
This is again bad for all the same reasons that the last two "In Da Club" incidents were bad. Possibly worse. Or equipment manager got shot. Twice.


I have been tempted to sarcastically ask if Diener is okay. But that would be inappropriate. Does Tinsley have kids? I know his family is close. I hope everything will just move on. If this was the first incident the atmosphere would be different.

bellisimo
12-10-2007, 03:37 PM
Could this be a good thing for Tinsley and the Pacers?

if he sticks to his decision about making smarter moves with his life - then yes...in the long run it could be a good thing...but why it had to come to a point like this in the first place...i do not know...

Ragnar
12-10-2007, 03:46 PM
On the surface, guns and Pacers are probably not a good thing especially with the way the local media was handling it. Every ten o'clock news promo I saw yesterday had the same lead in line "Gun fire linked to Pacers point guard" or something like that. It was irresponsible journalism at its finest.
However if the Pacers PR department handles it correctly (which I would find pretty shocking) they have a chance to endear Tinsley to the city. Imagine if Tins started an organization to keep guns and violence off the streets of Indianapolis. Or something of that nature. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. I really think an organization or foundation/fundraiser type thing could really work well for the Pacers and Tinsley.

I dont think a campaign to take guns away from people in Indiana would be a good pr move.

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 03:53 PM
I dont think a campaign to take guns away from people in Indiana would be a good pr move.

Assault rifles, automatic weapons? If nothing else get them out of the inner city? A campaign to get kids off the streets? I think that would be a great PR move. Folks in Indiana may love their hunting rifles, but I doubt too many of them are out hunting with AKs.

Seed
12-10-2007, 05:05 PM
Guns and Pacers
Anyone for putting a band together?

Slick Pinkham
12-10-2007, 05:22 PM
You touch a hot pan and you get burned.

You touch a hot pan again and you get burned again.

You touch a hot pan yet again and you get burned yet again.

Then you announce "I was wrong to touch a hot pan"

If he really believes that, why in the world would it have not "sunk in" the first time or the second time?

Ragnar
12-10-2007, 05:24 PM
Assault rifles, automatic weapons? If nothing else get them out of the inner city? A campaign to get kids off the streets? I think that would be a great PR move. Folks in Indiana may love their hunting rifles, but I doubt too many of them are out hunting with AKs.


I dont want to start a political argument here but its been proven over and over if you take the guns away the crime goes up.

Gyron
12-10-2007, 05:29 PM
Assault rifles, automatic weapons? If nothing else get them out of the inner city? A campaign to get kids off the streets? I think that would be a great PR move. Folks in Indiana may love their hunting rifles, but I doubt too many of them are out hunting with AKs.

I always hunt with an AK 47.....

Have you never seen the movie with Eddie Murphy, "Distinguished Gentleman" when they go duck hunting with the M16's?

JayRedd
12-10-2007, 05:35 PM
I always hunt with an AK 47.....

* Disclaimer: Samuel L. says Samuel L.'s favorite word

XJevEXqT45Q

indygeezer
12-10-2007, 05:36 PM
You touch a hot pan and you get burned.

You touch a hot pan again and you get burned again.

You touch a hot pan yet again and you get burned yet again.

Then you announce "I was wrong to touch a hot pan"

If he really believes that, why in the world would it have not "sunk in" the first time or the second time?

Why not indeed? Besides which I'm calling :bs: on the apology in the first place. Words like "do things smarter" and "put myself in better situations" are not his words, those are being parroted from what TPTB have already said. He's toeing the company line (well, that COULD be a good thing)...but definately not using his own words to apologize.

Now to stir the pot a bit........ :devil:
3:30 at night...you're being followed by two vehicles with people who have already accosted you once..........Ya reckon they concerned themselves with maintaining the legally proscribed speed ordinances? I can just see them realizing that they are being pursued and yet the light up ahead turns a pinkish yellow, but the ever cautious driver slows and proceeds with caution all the time ready to yield the right of way to approaching traffic. (and I'm certain the cars following them did just the same)

bnd45
12-10-2007, 05:39 PM
Here is the part the most important part about our team moving forward and not losing Tinsley mentally (He could very easily have checked out and reverted to his old, 'I hate Rick Carlisle', 'I'm gonna mail-it-in form'.) The fact that both men can speak their minds and get along means good things for the Pacers.

From Pacers.com

Tinsley was excused from Sunday’s practice and met with O’Brien before Monday’s workout. The coach apparently had strong words for his point guard.


“I’ve got to give him the utmost respect,” said Tinsley. “He came at me as a man … he really got upset at me.”

kester99
12-10-2007, 05:50 PM
I dont want to start a political argument here but its been proven over and over if you take the guns away the crime goes up.


It's been proven MAYBE that if you pass a law to take guns off the street, and the law does not actually do that, then crime could go up. Sorry, it's just too freaking obvious that if the guns were IN FACT not there, it would be exceedingly difficult to shoot someone.

Knife 'em? Throw rocks? Maybe a good fist-up? Heck yeah. Hard to put flung stones through a Rolls though. Maybe a Yugo.

Erik
12-10-2007, 05:51 PM
You touch a hot pan and you get burned.

You touch a hot pan again and you get burned again.

You touch a hot pan yet again and you get burned yet again.

Then you announce "I was wrong to touch a hot pan"
If he really believes that, why in the world would it have not "sunk in" the first time or the second time?i can buy into it that he has changed from experience. i've made some repeat mistakes in my life and it took a few incidents for it to sink in with me. some of us are slower than others:whoknows:

indygeezer
12-10-2007, 06:01 PM
Assault rifles, automatic weapons? If nothing else get them out of the inner city? A campaign to get kids off the streets? I think that would be a great PR move. Folks in Indiana may love their hunting rifles, but I doubt too many of them are out hunting with AKs.


Several years ago I was driving my cousin from Phoenix out to catch her flight home. Westbound on I-70 we approached the Lockerbie street area and could see a HUGE pile of new pillows stacked up on a street corner. She asked what the heck those were and I informed her that it was a program initiated by IPD. I told her that IPD had convinced the local toughs to turn in their guns and use these free pillows to settle their differences. :angel: and that the program was being met with great success.
She bought it....every last word of it.

I nearly wrecked the car I was crying so hard from laughing when I finally told her that it was some street corner vendors selling pillows.
Fortunately she has a great sense of humor and we still laugh about it today...well, me more than she, but still.......

PaceBalls
12-10-2007, 06:07 PM
"This is something we can't just put right behind us and walk away from," Bird said Sunday. "It's something we'll have to discuss. I don't know how long it'll take and we'll continue to talk about it. We have to make a change, there's no question about it."

Sounds to me like Tinsley is gone... I think he was on his last strike from Larry, and it is a shame cause Tins is playing his best basketball ever, then again, his trade value has to be very high right now, he is one of the top PG's in the NBA statwise.

Erik
12-10-2007, 06:10 PM
Sounds to me like Tinsley is gone... I think he was on his last strike from Larry, and it is a shame cause Tins is playing his best basketball ever, then again, his trade value has to be very high right now, he is one of the top PG's in the NBA statwise.
i took the "we have to make a change" as implementing some new rules.

indygeezer
12-10-2007, 06:11 PM
Sounds to me like Tinsley is gone... I think he was on his last strike from Larry, and it is a shame cause Tins is playing his best basketball ever, then again, his trade value has to be very high right now, he is one of the top PG's in the NBA statwise.

Perhaps he's on double-dark secret probation.

D23
12-10-2007, 06:11 PM
I think this is all a conspiracy...

First J.O. opens Club 7. Then comes the 8-second-saloon incident. Now Cloud 9. Does anyone know if there are any bars in town with the number 10 in the name? Can we make a proactive policy to keep anyone associated with the team away from there?

Arcadian
12-10-2007, 06:14 PM
Sounds to me like Tinsley is gone... I think he was on his last strike from Larry, and it is a shame cause Tins is playing his best basketball ever, then again, his trade value has to be very high right now, he is one of the top PG's in the NBA statwise.

Larry's all talk. I'm still waiting for our mystery shooter.

McKeyFan
12-10-2007, 06:16 PM
"This is something we can't just put right behind us and walk away from," Bird said Sunday. "It's something we'll have to discuss. I don't know how long it'll take and we'll continue to talk about it. We have to make a change, there's no question about it."

I guess I give Bird a little credit for starting to put down a hammer when Shawne's incident emerged.

But, overall, he seems to be pretty soft, despite how tough he was on the court.

JOB on the other hand . . .

kester99
12-10-2007, 06:17 PM
I think this is all a conspiracy...

First J.O. opens Club 7. Then comes the 8-second-saloon incident. Now Cloud 9. Does anyone know if there are any bars in town with the number 10 in the name? Can we make a proactive policy to keep anyone associated with the team away from there?

Amazing good catch, D23...the authorities need to check into this. By the time the 700 Club enters into the picture, it will be way, way too late.

McKeyFan
12-10-2007, 06:18 PM
I think this is all a conspiracy...

First J.O. opens Club 7. Then comes the 8-second-saloon incident. Now Cloud 9. Does anyone know if there are any bars in town with the number 10 in the name? Can we make a proactive policy to keep anyone associated with the team away from there?

Today, my friend, is Dec. 10.

avoidingtheclowns
12-10-2007, 06:40 PM
The Ten
1218 N Pennsylvania St
Indianapolis, IN 46202
http://search.cityguide.aol.com/indianapolis/bars/ten/v-104424720/print

:vaderno:

WE'RE DOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!

benjaminooo
12-10-2007, 06:52 PM
Amazing good catch, D23...the authorities need to check into this. By the time the 700 Club enters into the picture, it will be way, way too late.

I already caught the numbers in the main thread.. note, Jamaal's # is 11..

8 seconds saloon
Cloud 9

The only logical explanation is that Tinsley is huge numbers fan and is planning his next "incident" at club TEN (yes, the lesbian bar at 12th & Penn).

One would also expect that after that there will only be one more occurrence after TEN since the Tin-man sports the number 11 on the court.

Does Jamaal have plans to open his own club 11 thus sealing the fate of this numbers game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8sTLPA9Jk

FlavaDave
12-10-2007, 06:56 PM
With Tinsley playing so well, his trade value is decently high. And with this incident, we have an excuse to trade him.

If we were just looking to randomly unload a player, teams might think "why?" But with this incident out in the open, teams know why and can be talked into it.

Consider it the SJax principle.



Now, I'm not saying this will happen, but I am mentally preparing myself for a Tinsley/Murphy for Starbury trade. Its going to take awhile, so I'm going to start now.

avoidingtheclowns
12-10-2007, 06:58 PM
Now, I'm not saying this will happen, but I am mentally preparing myself for a Tinsley/Murphy for Starbury trade. Its going to take awhile, so I'm going to start now.

cause when you need an image cleanup, you call starbury.

Evan_The_Dude
12-10-2007, 06:58 PM
Larry's all talk. I'm still waiting for our mystery shooter.

:rimshot:

FlavaDave
12-10-2007, 06:59 PM
cause when you need an image cleanup, you call starbury.


Has he had any off-the-court incidents? He's a malcontent, but I don't believe he has a criminal record.

BoomBaby33
12-10-2007, 07:00 PM
Larry's all talk. I'm still waiting for our mystery shooter.

What are you talking about? Larry knows what hes talking about! He was on our team all along. His name is ....





... Jamaal Tinsley. His shooting percentage is up you know! :D

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 07:02 PM
Sounds to me like Tinsley is gone... I think he was on his last strike from Larry, and it is a shame cause Tins is playing his best basketball ever, then again, his trade value has to be very high right now, he is one of the top PG's in the NBA statwise.

I doubt it. I think it means to me the Pacers franchise is going to seriously consider putting in strict curfew hours and things of that nature. Also possibly a list of acceptable places to go and so on.

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 07:07 PM
Has he had any off-the-court incidents? He's a malcontent, but I don't believe he has a criminal record.

Uh, does Tinsley? I really can't believe some think this incident attests to Tinsley's character. Does it attest to where he likes to hang out? Absolutely, but it doesn't mean hes a bad guy.
Look I'm tired of hearing about this stuff as much as the next guy. Really I am, but there is nothing to get upset with Tins about right now. There just isn't. He didn't do anything wrong and it appears he did everything in his power to diffuse the situation. Do you really think he thought the guys following him would unload an automatic rifle outside of the Conrad? I sure wouldn't. It would seem like a pretty safe place to go. Tins handled this by the book. If someone is following you, you go to well lit public place. He could not have anticipated just how crazy the people following him were.
Was Tinsley's brother out of line? You bet. I expect he will be facing charges for going after the assailants and returning fire. Jamaal Tinsly though, the guy this thread is about, didn't do anything wrong as far as I'm concerned. At least nothing that warrants being booted off the team. It wasn't the brightest decision to go out given his history, but he certainly didn't do anything to warrant us trading him.

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 07:15 PM
Also new update on IndyStar says police are looking at the Conrad surveillance tape and photos. They are hoping to be able to figure out what the shooter looked like.

bellisimo
12-10-2007, 07:25 PM
Larry's all talk. I'm still waiting for our mystery shooter.

so is the rest of the police department in Indiana...

Evan_The_Dude
12-10-2007, 07:29 PM
Also new update on IndyStar says police are looking at the Conrad surveillance tape and photos. They are hoping to be able to figure out what the shooter looked like.

Well the shooter managed to hit two elbows, so I guess we know Jermaine O'Neal didn't do it...

McKeyFan
12-10-2007, 07:33 PM
Also new update on IndyStar says police are looking at the Conrad surveillance tape and photos. They are hoping to be able to figure out what the shooter looked like.

Officials say the tapes show a shooter reciprocating from the parking lot of the hotel, wearing a mink coat, a yellow headband, firing a licensed weapon at the fleeing black truck and shouting, "And 1, Muther F#ckers!"

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 07:35 PM
Officials say the tapes show a shooter reciprocating from the parking lot of the hotel, wearing a mink coat, a yellow headband, firing a licensed weapon at the fleeing black truck and shouting, "And 1, Muther F#ckers!"

:lol:

Evan_The_Dude
12-10-2007, 07:37 PM
Officials say the tapes show a shooter reciprocating from the parking lot of the hotel, wearing a mink coat, a yellow headband, firing a licensed weapon at the fleeing black truck and shouting, "And 1, Muther F#ckers!" even though the shooter didn't hit his intended target.

fixed.

Big Smooth
12-10-2007, 07:46 PM
The Pacers really need to have a "Kevlar Vest Night" at the Fieldhouse.

FlavaDave
12-10-2007, 07:49 PM
Uh, does Tinsley? I really can't believe some think this incident attests to Tinsley's character. Does it attest to where he likes to hang out? Absolutely, but it doesn't mean hes a bad guy.
Look I'm tired of hearing about this stuff as much as the next guy. Really I am, but there is nothing to get upset with Tins about right now. There just isn't. He didn't do anything wrong and it appears he did everything in his power to diffuse the situation. Do you really think he thought the guys following him would unload an automatic rifle outside of the Conrad? I sure wouldn't. It would seem like a pretty safe place to go. Tins handled this by the book. If someone is following you, you go to well lit public place. He could not have anticipated just how crazy the people following him were.
Was Tinsley's brother out of line? You bet. I expect he will be facing charges for going after the assailants and returning fire. Jamaal Tinsly though, the guy this thread is about, didn't do anything wrong as far as I'm concerned. At least nothing that warrants being booted off the team. It wasn't the brightest decision to go out given his history, but he certainly didn't do anything to warrant us trading him.


Read the official thread for my repeated defense of Tinsley. I agree that, if I had to say one way or the other, I would "acquit" Tinsley here.

But this is 100% an off-the-court incident. It is off the court, and it is an incident. Add that with the 8 Second Saloon (where he allegedly threatened a man's life) and the Club Rio incident where he was caught with weed (let's be honest here, the weed was his). That's three incidents.

And I'm not advocating a trade. Just saying the conditions exist to make one possible.

D23
12-10-2007, 07:57 PM
Also new update on IndyStar says police are looking at the Conrad surveillance tape and photos. They are hoping to be able to figure out what the shooter looked like.


Well judging by the accuracy of those shots, my guess is it was Kareem Rush.

Evan_The_Dude
12-10-2007, 07:58 PM
In all seriousness, I'm sort of concerned for the personal safety of Tinsley and the rest of the team. If the shooter(s) is bold enough to follow the Tinsley's from W. 38th street all the way to the downtown area, what else are they willing to do?

Tinsley wouldn't be a hard target after Pacers games are over. What about when the team is out of town and boarding the team bus? What if the shooter sends his "boys" to do some dirty work for him outside of the state ala TuPac Shakur?

I know it appears Tinsley is innocent from a law standpoint, but it seems he isn't exactly out making friends around the city. I could see if he was a member of the Pistons getting shot at, but this is a man that plays for the local team. He should be embraced, not shot at. It makes me wonder if the first altercation he had at 8 Seconds with Stephen Jackson & co. may have involved some gang members who's gang is now targeting Tinsley.

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 08:01 PM
Forget the personal safety of Tinsley how about the personal safety of everyone in the city of Indianapolis? Stuff like this is not supposed to happen in this city. We're supposed to be a big city with a small town feel. Lets be honest the crime is an increasing pattern all around the city and if you think its just on W. 38th st you are wrong. The city of INdianapolis should take this as a nice little wake up call that they have gang bangers wandering around their city with assault rifles and the need to shoot at people who drive nice cars and make money.

JayRedd
12-10-2007, 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Arcadian
Larry's all talk. I'm still waiting for our mystery shooter.


so is the rest of the police department in Indiana...

Nice.


Well the shooter managed to hit two elbows, so I guess we know Jermaine O'Neal didn't do it...

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Evan_The_Dude
12-10-2007, 08:10 PM
Forget the personal safety of Tinsley how about the personal safety of everyone in the city of Indianapolis? Stuff like this is not supposed to happen in this city. We're supposed to be a big city with a small town feel. Lets be honest the crime is an increasing pattern all around the city and if you think its just on W. 38th st you are wrong. The city of INdianapolis should take this as a nice little wake up call that they have gang bangers wandering around their city with assault rifles and the need to shoot at people who drive nice cars and make money.

You're right, but things like this can happen in a lot of cities. Crime is bad and getting worse here, but even then I find it hard to believe that somebody would follow Tinsley across town to try to take him out JUST because he has money and some nice cars. I could see if it was a robbery attempt, but that's not the case here. Somebody in the Tinsley party either said something to provoke them, or somebody already know's of Tinsley from a past incident and was looking to take him out.

This is why I never fought in High School. Because in Jr. High, I might have beaten up a kid, but then that kid would call his older and much bigger and bolder brother or best friend, and then I'd have to deal with their crazy ***. I didn't learn anything from the initial fight, but I learned something from the retaliation.

speakout4
12-10-2007, 08:28 PM
The next time Tinsley's luck is going to run out and he is going to be seriously popped and we will all say but it wasn't his fault; he did nothing wrong.

Reckoner
12-10-2007, 08:34 PM
Wrong place, wrong time. He's owned up to it, but he aint the cowardly loser who tried to kill someone(s).

I hope this is the last we hear apart from the tossers who shot at him getting put in jail.

bellisimo
12-10-2007, 08:41 PM
The next time Tinsley's luck is going to run out and he is going to be seriously popped and we will all say but it wasn't his fault; he did nothing wrong.

back in Jersey I went to high school that was by the ghettos...
we had a lot of so called "gangs" from different projects...
it took a lot of social networking with various people from different groups to be as neutral as Switzerland...

but that didn't mean that there weren't times when idiots tried to start things with me when I had done nothing wrong...why did they do it? all for the thrill of it / or cause I had something better/more expensive on me than them and they were interested in taking it...

this incident with Tins going to a hotel instead of their own house reminds me of those days when some punks were following me and my friends. I ended up just going into the house of the friend who lived closest to home and just waited 'em out.
Next day I see another friend and he tells me that some of his friends were planning on attacking me to take my headphones - but he made 'em back out from it.

Point of the story - sometimes stupid **** will follow you...without even you doing anything to stir it up in the first place.

Trader Joe
12-10-2007, 08:46 PM
Believe it or not people do injure or even KILL people who have nicer things than them. It is sad, senseless, and downright scary, but it is true. I don't know if that is what happened to Jamaal, but I've heard nothing that makes me think it was something else. More information could come out about what happened in the parking lot. Right now though it sounds like it was over the nice cars Jamaal was driving and his yearly salary and nothing more.

DisplacedKnick
12-10-2007, 11:16 PM
Uh, does Tinsley? I really can't believe some think this incident attests to Tinsley's character. Does it attest to where he likes to hang out? Absolutely, but it doesn't mean hes a bad guy.

You're kidding, right? He's only going to trial in about a month for the 8 Seconds Saloon fight. I'd call that an off-the-court incident, beyond his being at Club Rio when Jackson decided it was the OK Corral.

And if he's convicted he may look on this past weekend as a life altering experience. You can't take other behavior into account during the trial phase but you sure can during the penalty phase and you can bet the prosecutor's gonna point at this and say Tinsley hasn't learned a thing and should get some jail time to figure it out.

Otherwise I'd have said the worst he'd probably be facing was probation. I don't think that now. If he's convicted it's gonna be hard for the defense to argue that he's learned the error of his ways, has stayed out of trouble since and will never do it again.

Arcadian
12-10-2007, 11:32 PM
I don't believe that the incident shows Tins to be a bad person. He did nothing illegal or wrong as reported.

It does show, however, that he hasn't figued out that parts of his lifestyle aren't safe or smart. He does owe the franchise and more importantly his family better decision making when it comes to the situations he puts himself into.

Naptown_Seth
12-10-2007, 11:39 PM
Larry's all talk. I'm still waiting for our mystery shooter.
Apparently there was a sighting in front of the Conrad the other night. Thing is he apparently is just as streaky and prone to miss as Jackson was.
:rimshot:


edit: drat, way too slow

so is the rest of the police department in Indiana...
:D

Has Brizzi run the fingerprint and DNA check on the AK shells yet? Checked Washington St for tire marks? Called in the Ghostbusters?

Oh wait, elections over, and with it goes due diligence I guess.

Arcadian
12-10-2007, 11:43 PM
Apparently there was a sighting in front of the Conrad the other night. Thing is he apparently is just as streaky and prone to miss as Jackson was.
:rimshot:

And disappears like MDJ...

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 11:51 PM
I don't believe that the incident shows Tins to be a bad person. He did nothing illegal or wrong as reported.

It does show, however, that he hasn't figued out that parts of his lifestyle aren't safe or smart. He does owe the franchise and more importantly his family better decision making when it comes to the situations he puts himself into.

Absolutely.

BTW, Tinsley's last three games prior to this incident were perhaps the best 3 game stretch of his career. It's gotta be tough on him to have this happen right now. I can tell you, this is a bit surreal for me since I work within walking distance of the incident and often eat in the Artsgarden overlooking the scene. I still have a difficult time believing someone would open fire with assault rifles at that particular location. It's just nuts.

Trader Joe
12-11-2007, 12:05 AM
You're kidding, right? He's only going to trial in about a month for the 8 Seconds Saloon fight. I'd call that an off-the-court incident, beyond his being at Club Rio when Jackson decided it was the OK Corral.

And if he's convicted he may look on this past weekend as a life altering experience. You can't take other behavior into account during the trial phase but you sure can during the penalty phase and you can bet the prosecutor's gonna point at this and say Tinsley hasn't learned a thing and should get some jail time to figure it out.

Otherwise I'd have said the worst he'd probably be facing was probation. I don't think that now. If he's convicted it's gonna be hard for the defense to argue that he's learned the error of his ways, has stayed out of trouble since and will never do it again.

No, I'm not kidding Tinsley doesn't have a criminal record. Which is what I was responding too.

Last I checked in this country you are innocent til proven guilty. Although sometimes it seems people only apply that to certain people.

Pacersfan46
12-11-2007, 06:53 AM
You touch a hot pan and you get burned.

You touch a hot pan again and you get burned again.

You touch a hot pan yet again and you get burned yet again.

Then you announce "I was wrong to touch a hot pan"

If he really believes that, why in the world would it have not "sunk in" the first time or the second time?

I wouldn't expect you to get it, unless you've been shot at before. It's no joke, and it will rattle you. In the other incidences it never looked like anyone made a serious attempt on his life.

This isn't the same as the other situations. Not at all.

-- Steve --

bellisimo
12-11-2007, 09:30 AM
I wouldn't expect you to get it, unless you've been shot at before. It's no joke, and it will rattle you. In the other incidences it never looked like anyone made a serious attempt on his life.

This isn't the same as the other situations. Not at all.

-- Steve --

yes...its more like touching a hot plate to touching a hot oven to touching the fire coming out from the fireplace. - They're all hot but the degree of hotness...is different. ;)

Pacersfan46
12-11-2007, 09:44 AM
yes...its more like touching a hot plate to touching a hot oven to touching the fire coming out from the fireplace. - They're all hot but the degree of hotness...is different. ;)

Believe me, I've been in arguments, and been in fist fights. I've also been shot, and obviously, shot at.

They're not even related. Period.

-- Steve --