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aero
12-09-2007, 06:02 AM
Indianapolis - Breaking news this morning of a shooting downtown involving Jamaal Tinsley and his three brothers.

Police tell us the men, and their friends, had spent the evening at the club Cloud Nine on West 38th street.

As they were leaving the club, they say some people outside were looking at their cars. There was an argument, and the Tinsley brothers and their friends left in three cars, all registered to Jamaal Tinsley, who was not present.

Tinsley, his brothers and their friends tell police they drove downtown and shots were fired at them near the Conrad Hotel at Illinois and Washington.

Police say Joey Qatato -- a trainer for the Pacers -- was shot in the arm. He's in good condition.

While police were investigating, they discovered one man in the entourage had an outstanding warrant in Georgia, he was arrested.

Police say one member of the Tinsley party, who is licensed to have a gun, may have returned fire.

Police are looking for a dark colored Dodge Charger and a blue truck.

http://wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=7471562

____________________

I had a different comment here but ive edited it since more info has been released. im just gonna be silent its for the best.

bellisimo
12-09-2007, 07:04 AM
here we go again....?

aero
12-09-2007, 07:09 AM
they just did a live piece on WTHR and said that Tinsley and his brothers were at a club and on their way out they seen some people by Tinsley's car, the group of people made some type of comment/comments about Tinsley's cars and how much money he makes. Tinsley who has a place downtown (condo, apartment something like that) then started to make their way downtown when they noticed that they were being followed, instead of going to the apartment/condo/home or whatever it may be...they instead pulled into the Conrad hotel. then for whatever reason shots were fired from a .223 caliber firearm...most likely an AK-47 or something similar.

andreialta
12-09-2007, 07:12 AM
well atleast they dint start it i think.

stilll bad news

Rajah Brown
12-09-2007, 07:13 AM
Gee, wonder how they were able to follow them downtown w/o
losing them. After all, there are 'Rolls-Royces' all over Indy.
Wonder how they were able to pick JT's out among them all..!

Only kidding. JT can drive whatever the hell he wants. But dude,
can't you and your posse just go bowling !

IndyFan032589
12-09-2007, 07:13 AM
Key words: West 38th St.

Stay out of the ghetto and ghetto things won't happen!!!!!! Jeez, Does this dude have a brain???

I know when I hit the clubs on W. 38th, I alway try to stay low-key by driving my Rolls. Be rich and drive the Rolls or be ghetto and go to clubs on 38th St. but don't try and make both worlds coexist. It won't work.

aero
12-09-2007, 07:14 AM
here is the IndyStar's take on it:
Someone armed with an assault rifle fired on Jamaal Tinsley of the Pacers and several companions outside the Conrad Hotel in Downtown Indianapolis early today, wounding a person who was with the athlete.

Police said Joey Qatato, 48, was struck in both elbows as he sat with Tinsley in the player’s Rolls Royce. The Pacers’ web site identifies Qatato as the team’s equipment manager.
Tinsley and companions were in three of his vehicles when authorities were called to the hotel at 50 W. Washington St. at about 3:40 a.m.

A police statement said the incident began at a club called “Cloud 9” on West 38th Street earlier.

“The group was attempting to leave (Cloud 9) in three different vehicles, all of which belonged to Mr. Tinsley,” the statement said.

“Apparently another group had gathered around one of Tinsley's vehicles in the parking lot and there was a confrontation. Tinsley's group left but realized that they were being followed so they pulled in to the Conrad downtown instead of going home.”

The shooting began after they reached the hotel, police said. The Rolls Royce was struck by several bullets. A second vehicle was also hit, but no one was injured.

“The suspected weapon is a .223 assault rifle,” the police statement said. Authorities are looking for gray Chrysler and a dark pickup truck.

Only one person was arrested on the scene, Antoine Toon, 31, a member of the Tinsley group wanted on an unrelated warrant out of Georgia.

Tinsley is scheduled to stand trial next month in connection with a late-night incident earlier this year.

He and teammate Marquis Daniels are due in court Jan. 14 on charges stemming from a bar fight at the 8 Seconds Saloon.

A grand jury indicted Tinsley on a felony charge of intimidation, and misdemeanor counts of battery, disorderly conduct and intimidation from the Feb. 6 incident.

Daniels is charged with battery and disorderly conduct, both misdemeanors.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071209/LOCAL/71209001

_________________________

and yeah, the comments about west 38th st are all too true. I worked that beat all summer. drove past club rio ever night and would shake my head ever time i drove past there in my cruiser....

Pacersfan46
12-09-2007, 07:18 AM
Okay, is this enough to keep him, and other Pacer players away from those places?

Probably not, but damn. I don't know what will.

-- Steve --

Pacersfan46
12-09-2007, 07:22 AM
Oh it was on West 38th? My god.

Do I have to show him MY scars from getting shot over there? Freaking stupid. Stupid. STUPID.

-- Steve --

aero
12-09-2007, 07:23 AM
I just dont understand why he of all people STILL hangs out on W 38th St. Larry Legend needs to BAN him and ALL Pacers players from the west side lol

Im shocked I didn't see him or any other players over the summer in that area, then again i really wasn't looking..

bellisimo
12-09-2007, 07:24 AM
from the stories - it looks like they got chased down and didn't really start anything themselves - instead it was the others that started it...still a shame to see something like this happen but atleast its not made out as if JT is the one behind this mess...

IndyFan032589
12-09-2007, 07:26 AM
I just dont understand why he of all people STILL hangs out on W 38th St. Larry Legend needs to BAN him and ALL Pacers players from the west side lol


I agree. If Roger Penske can ban his IndyCar drivers from consuming alcohol during the month of May then Bird can ban the Pacers from ghetto clubs.

IndyFan032589
12-09-2007, 07:27 AM
from the stories - it looks like they got chased down and didn't really start anything themselves - instead it was the others that started it...still a shame to see something like this happen but atleast its not made out as if JT is the one behind this mess...

He sure didn't do anything to prevent it by driving a $350K car in the hood.

Pacersfan46
12-09-2007, 07:27 AM
from the stories - it looks like they got chased down and didn't really start anything themselves - instead it was the others that started it...still a shame to see something like this happen but atleast its not made out as if JT is the one behind this mess...

To be on that side of town, in that area ... it doesn't have to be you that started it.

I had a fool crash into my car while I was PARKED, blame me, and then try to shoot me in the back of my head while I wasn't looking at him. Luckily I saw it, grabed the gun, and fought back before his brave friends jumped in and attacked me.

You don't have to be rich or give anyone a reason there. They're just that damn stupid.

-- Steve --

aero
12-09-2007, 07:30 AM
I recall over the summer,

right down the street from that bar/club at the mall that there was a gentelman in a VERY expensive Mercedes Benz that got shot just because of the car he was in. That side of town isnt a joke.

If you have a net worth of over 100K stay away lol

Pacersfan46
12-09-2007, 07:32 AM
If you have a net worth of over $10 stay away lol

-- Fixed --

aero
12-09-2007, 07:33 AM
true ;)

Aw Heck
12-09-2007, 07:34 AM
If you're a pro athlete, I guess you can never be too careful. Earlier this year, Darrant Williams was killed in a drive-by shooting while he was in a limo with Javon Walker. I'm sure that was going through their minds when they realized they were being followed. At least no one was killed.

I'll echo what others have said by saying the Pacers need to be careful of what clubs they go to. At least in this incident it sounds like Tinsley's group tried to leave the situation.

aero
12-09-2007, 07:37 AM
Yeah it sounds like that, however the mainstream media will flip this to make it looks like its all Tinsley's fault.

Jamaal is VERY lucky he wans't injured. They never said on tv which car Jamaal was in however two of the 3 cars got shot up from what they are showing on tv.

this new chick on wthr keeps calling the police "IPD" :p

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 07:40 AM
I recall over the summer,

right down the street from that bar/club at the mall that there was a gentelman in a VERY expensive Mercedes Benz that got shot just because of the car he was in. That side of town isnt a joke.

If you have a net worth of over 100K stay away lol

Yes, it is no joke. Don't go to Lafayette Square at night. There's no place to shop there anyway. lol

I used to be a Tinsley hater, but I have started to come around and accept him for the hood he is. Hey, all of us cannot be upstanding citizens. Just post bond, get him out of jail and back on that court right now. He needs to be leading our running game.

BTW, wouldn't it have been funny if he pulled up at Conseco fieldhouse and got shot at....don't mean to say I would want to see him hurt at all. I just know the fieldhouse is just a couple blocks away. LOL.

Get over it. We decided to keep the man and this is what we deserve. I decided to accept him, and this is what I EXPECTED!

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 07:41 AM
If you're a pro athlete, I guess you can never be too careful. Earlier this year, Darrant Williams was killed in a drive-by shooting while he was in a limo with Javon Walker. I'm sure that was going through their minds when they realized they were being followed. At least no one was killed.

I'll echo what others have said by saying the Pacers need to be careful of what clubs they go to. At least in this incident it sounds like Tinsley's group tried to leave the situation.

Yeh, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning all have a difficult time avoiding the bullets in Indy as well.

LOLOLOL!

Aw Heck
12-09-2007, 07:50 AM
Yeh, Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning all have a difficult time avoiding the bullets in Indy as well.

LOLOLOL!
Obviously they're more selective about where they go at night.

Tinsley needed to exercise better judgment about where he went last night. Other than that, I don't think there's anything else to blame him for. Unlike previous incidents, it sounds like he didn't start it and he tried to avoid it.

This doesn't bother me as much as Club Rio or 8 Second Saloon. Although he really needs to figure out that there are certain places he shouldn't be late at night. Who knows, maybe after being shot at and having someone get hit, maybe that will finally hit home.

Shade
12-09-2007, 07:50 AM
While it appears that Tins was strictly a victim in this case, he really should be smart enough to stay out of the ghetto. Especially now. I really don't understand why rich athletes, who work so hard to get out of the ghetto, always manage to find themselves back in there.

On another note, everyone already knows how dangerous that area of town is, so why is nothing being done to make it safer?

Putnam
12-09-2007, 08:09 AM
The mistake isn't being on West 38th Street. The mistake is being there at 3:40am.

There are some tough spots on that street, it's true. But there are plenty of decent places along there too. At 7:00pm, families are eating at the Red Lobster, right across the street from Club Rio. But at 3:00am, nobody is out there but toughs with something to prove.

Tinsley is accountable for going where the trouble happened. But he didn't do the crime.

Pacersfan46
12-09-2007, 08:11 AM
The mistake isn't being on West 38th Street. The mistake is being there at 3:40am.

There are some tough spots on that street, it's true. But there are plenty of decent places along there too. At 7:00pm, families are eating at the Red Lobster, right across the street from Club Rio. But at 3:00am, nobody is out there but toughs with something to prove.

Tinsley is accountable for going where the trouble happened. But he didn't do the crime.

My situation happened at 8 PM.

-- Steve --

Putnam
12-09-2007, 08:27 AM
My situation happened at 8 PM.

-- Steve --


I believe you, and I'm sorry it happened.

Bad things can happen anywhere at any time. A few years ago, a man was shot on Monument Circle. Nevertheless, the Circle is a pretty safe place to be at noon on a workday...and less safe far into the night. I'll allow that West 38th Street is a tougher place than many in Indianapolis, but it is not a ghetto (it is a commercial district).

hoopsforlife
12-09-2007, 08:28 AM
There is no timetable for people who do these things. They have to live 24 hours with themselves. Its away of life with them, the mindset never changes. Unfortunately, for sane ordinary people, these type are out there with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove to themselves or their friends.

My personal opinion is that Jammal Tinsley is a kindred spirit to these kinds of people and feels a need to be among them. Except now he is wealthy, flaunts it and creates a backlash he doesn't understand or know how to deal with. He needs to understand he is no longer one of "the guys", find new friends and new places to hangout. He needs to make his family go with him or he may miss more games do to funerals. His or his brothers. He was lucky once again last night.

Will he be lucky the next time.

Pacersfan46
12-09-2007, 08:31 AM
I believe you, and I'm sorry it happened.

Bad things can happen anywhere at any time. A few years ago, a man was shot on Monument Circle. Nevertheless, the Circle is a pretty safe place to be at noon on a workday...and less safe far into the night. I'll allow that West 38th Street is a tougher place than maIny in Indianapolis, but it is not a ghetto (it is a commercial district).

The same day I got shot, a man was killed sitting in his car at the mall. My work didn't know which person I was, the one post surgery, or deceased.

I think it's a mistake to go there anytime of day. I get on my g/f for working in that area, even at a doctors office. She needs to take her degree, and get a real job now. Not working part time at a doc office. Ugh.

We'll have to just disagree. I think it's a bad decision to go there unless you have to.

-- Steve --

indygeezer
12-09-2007, 08:33 AM
Is Jaamal becoming our Charles Barkley?

Too good to let go, never the instigator, but always involved.


How many times do these guys have to be whomped up side the head to get the message thru to them?



Hey Steve.was your's at the theater parking lot or was that another poster?

hoopsforlife
12-09-2007, 08:36 AM
Is Jaamal becoming our Charles Barkley?

Too good to let go, never the instigator, but always involved.


How many times do these guys have to be whomped up side the head to get the message thru to them?

We could call him the "Round fist of assist"

indygeezer
12-09-2007, 08:39 AM
We could call him the "Round fist of assist"

LOL :laugh:

DisplacedKnick
12-09-2007, 08:41 AM
Tinsley seems to be afflicted by terminal stupidity.

Did he start this? Sounds like the answer is no.

Was he an idiot for being in that place at that time? Yup - same as Jackson was w/ Club Rio last year.

There are just things smart people shouldn't do.

And the old, "Where there's smoke there's fire" mantra has some truth to it.
Jamal was at:

Club Rio last summer

8 Second Saloon last winter

Cloud 9 last night

I don't know what he did specifically in any of those cases but when trouble keeps finding someone, chances are good he's doing something to bring it.

It's just terrible decision-making on his part. There are better places in Indy for a wealthy person to take his Rolls to. And if, as I conjecture from the name, Cloud 9 is a strip club, there are some high-class downtown strip clubs, or you could hire some dancers for an evening.

Just stupid - like sticking your hand in a fire and hoping you won't get burned.

indygeezer
12-09-2007, 08:43 AM
Well Realgm has this up already..but ESPN has yet to catch on to it.

http://realgm.com/

Unclebuck
12-09-2007, 08:46 AM
In this situation is seems to me that Jamaal did nothing wrong. He was leaving a place, some guys who were probably drunk decided to cause some problems, Tinsley did the correct thing and left, they were followed and Tinsley did the correct thing going to a public place instead of going home - although going to the police station would have been better, or calling the police.

I do find it interesting that Joe Quato - the equipment manager was with him.


Of course you could say the obvious, why was Tinsley out so late and in a bad part of town - bad judgment perhaps, but nothing criminal there.

The real problem is public perception - that the Pacers are a bunch of thugs involved in another shooting incident. - That is all most people will know about this and that is all they really care about. Nothing like an incident that confirms public perception.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 08:47 AM
My situation happened at 8 PM.

-- Steve --

There have been many publicized incidents that have occurred in broad daylight around that mall. It is probably one of the more dangerous business districts around Indianapolis.

For suburbanites, there is no longer a reason to go there because Avon businesses are available. That's why the stores are all shut down on W. 38th. Money from the burbs have moved out. That's one reason JT needs to keep supporting the area....LOL.

jeffg-body
12-09-2007, 08:48 AM
I know Tin Man (and a lot of pro atheletes) has been in Indy or wherever their team is a while, but it seems like he just doesn't know where places are safe in the day and hell at night. Maybe pro teams should do more in identifying these issues when they come in to the franchise, like an orientation. For a lot of us hoosiers, it is an unwritten rule or common knowledge to stay away from that area at night. He got lucky.

idioteque
12-09-2007, 08:56 AM
I agree. If Roger Penske can ban his IndyCar drivers from consuming alcohol during the month of May then Bird can ban the Pacers from ghetto clubs.

How would you constitute a "ghetto club?"

You're obviously a young guy (as am I) and you're trying to tell grown men what to do. What is LB going to do, call all of the Pacers at 10pm and ask them where they are, or better yet install tracking devices into their cars so he knows where they are at all times? That notion in and of itself is silly.

If LB really thinks Tinsley could cause a major, major problem for himself or someone else he needs to trade him. If he meets with Tinsley and realizes that isn't the case, then he needs to keep him. There is no use trying to tell grown men how to run their lives.

SoupIsGood
12-09-2007, 08:59 AM
Yeah, I've run into some trouble in that area of town as well. Luckily it didn't involve a gun like what happened to 46. That would have scared the **** out of me.

It seems likie avoiding those kind of places would be one of the first common sense-type of moves you'd make after becoming a multimillionaire. Hmmm.

SoupIsGood
12-09-2007, 09:01 AM
On another note, everyone already knows how dangerous that area of town is, so why is nothing being done to make it safer?


Yeah... what's the deal?

DisplacedKnick
12-09-2007, 09:07 AM
And if, as I conjecture from the name, Cloud 9 is a strip club,

Based on its web site, Cloud 9 does NOT appear to be a strip club. Teach me for posting conjecture . . .

Still not in a good section of town. Certainly not the worst - the true getto is just East of this area - but bad & getting worse.

And to chime in, 10 years ago I used to go to Lafayette Scare Mall occasionally - the location is very convenient if you're on I-65. I don't any more. People have been killed in the parking lot at 3 p.m. there. Crazy.

idioteque
12-09-2007, 09:10 AM
Yeah... what's the deal?

No one's stepped up and invested in the area yet.

There is obviously some revitalization work that needs to be done in that area. I wish the Irsays would have stepped up and build Lucas Oil in an area that needed to be revitalized...oftentimes stadiums can totally transform an area.

In DC the Verizon Center (where the Wizards play) totally altered the complete makeup of Penn Quarter. From what I've heard from many residents who have been there for a long time and also from the local media, it's been like night and day. Also in DC the new stadium for the Nationals is being built right in Southeast DC, which for a long time has been known as one of the worst ghettos in America, to try to enact similar changes in that area.

With these two successes there has to be a winning formula to this thing.

Tom White
12-09-2007, 09:32 AM
Of course you could say the obvious, why was Tinsley out so late and in a bad part of town - bad judgment perhaps, but nothing criminal there.

The real problem is public perception...

Well, here is my own, one person "public perceptiom" of this.

I'll agree that, as far as we know, JT and his bunch did not do anything legally wrong. But remember his interview earlier this season about wanting to be a better father, etc.?

His being out at 3:00AM at clubs, getting into problems (his fault or not), does not set a very good example for the kids, does it? I'd say he isn't getting a passing grade in that area. Just my opinion.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 09:32 AM
No one's stepped up and invested in the area yet.

There is obviously some revitalization work that needs to be done in that area. I wish the Irsays would have stepped up and build Lucas Oil in an area that needed to be revitalized...oftentimes stadiums can totally transform an area.


Businesses do not typically base decisions on that and it's not really their responsibility to clean up the mess caused by our economic policies and cultural issues. The ghetto will simply move and JT will follow....

Once our government decides to stop destroying the country with its immigration and trade policies and our people decide to place a higher value on family, fatherhood, personal responsibility, education, and morals, these problems will dissipate.

idioteque
12-09-2007, 09:39 AM
Businesses do not typically base decisions on that and it's not really their responsibility to clean up the mess caused by our economic policies and cultural issues. The ghetto will simply move and JT will follow....


No American goverment, especially not a government in a state as conservative as Indiana, is going to wage some war on poverty to try to improve things in these areas. Either the private sector will eventually do it or no one will do it. And it can work if it is done properly. There is a glaring case study that I see every day if you don't believe me.

And who cares if JT will follow or not? There are plenty of people that want to get the hell out of the ghetto.

And businesses do have a responsibility to contribute to the well being of the community. Have you ever taken a course on business ethics? With all the corporate welfare the Colts have recieved it's really the least they could do.

Tom White
12-09-2007, 09:44 AM
If LB really thinks Tinsley could cause a major, major problem for himself or someone else he needs to trade him. If he meets with Tinsley and realizes that isn't the case, then he needs to keep him. There is no use trying to tell grown men how to run their lives.

You are correct. The Pacers are a business. JT is an employee. Bird is his Employer.

You have to look at what effect each employee has on your business, and while it may or may not be out of line for an employer to tell an employee what to do away from the workplace, the employer has a right to protect the business from repercussions of the employee's actions. That does include (as UB posted earlier) the public perception, and therefore the reputation and viability, of that business.

I'm not saying trade him, or keep him, either way. I guess I'm just expanding a bit on what you said.

dlewyus
12-09-2007, 09:48 AM
Once our government decides to stop destroying the country with its immigration and trade policies and our people decide to place a higher value on family, fatherhood, personal responsibility, education, and morals, these problems will dissipate.

In other words; "Don't hold your breath".

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 09:56 AM
In other words; "Don't hold your breath".

LOL. No kidding. I must be dreaming or something.

In any event, that's what it will take. The trade and immigration policies are not helping our poverty situation in this country. That goes to DC's point. ..and yes, Indiana, particularly run by pro-business Mitch Daniels is not going to start a war on poverty.

But the war on poverty is not one person's responsibility. Both our government and our own culture has caused this mess. Both need to work together to clean it up.

So, I really think DC is on target, but there are really two targets. One is public policy. The other one is directly related to culture and how some segments of society put down education, put down family, don't live up to personal responsibilities, etc.

Until both are corrected, the status quo will continue or grow worse.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 10:05 AM
And businesses do have a responsibility to contribute to the well being of the community. Have you ever taken a course on business ethics? With all the corporate welfare the Colts have recieved it's really the least they could do.

I agree the Colts got a handout from the state...and I am totally in agreement with some of the goals you seem to have in mind.

However, you have been listening to the professors for too long. Businesses are in it to make money and are not responsible for the public welfare. Just because it seems fair for the Colts to "pony up", you just cannot base societal interests on such a whim. It's government's (ie. the general public) responsibility to reign them in by enacting laws and regulations.

Our immigration and trade policies would be my place to start.

idioteque
12-09-2007, 10:11 AM
In the United States, it's really all about the bottom line of businesses, and it always will be. Whether or not that is a good thing is something that we can debate, but it really doesn't make that much of a difference what we say because in the end our government is going to enable businesses to reap as much profit as possible, even if it is at the expense of a large number of citizens.

The reason I am so in favor of development through investment in rough areas is for one thing it works, and for another thing many people win because it really cleans up some areas. But it doesn't really address the core issue of the problem, instead of stopping poverty it just moves it.

Getting back on topic, this thing will either blow over or it will really, really kill the Pacers in terms of PR. My Dad is always panning me how JT is a thug and that the Pacers are a "bunch of thugs" (even though I don't really think that is true at all) and although most of the people on this board who follow the Pacers closely can argue against this, this is all the average fans sees and all he cares to see. He/she isn't going to partake in some crazy in depth analysis, they'll simply pull their support from this team and do it quickly.

Rajah Brown
12-09-2007, 10:14 AM
Hey, if nothing else, Bird can buy JT an old, used, Chevy Cavalier
or something similarly non-descript. Club-9 or whatever at 3:40
a.m. is bad enough. But leave the damn Rolls at home.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 10:17 AM
Getting back on topic, this thing will either blow over or it will really, really kill the Pacers in terms of PR. My Dad is always panning me how JT is a thug and that the Pacers are a "bunch of thugs" (even though I don't really think that is true at all) and although most of the people on this board who follow the Pacers closely can argue against this, this is all the average fans sees and all he cares to see. He/she isn't going to partake in some crazy in depth analysis, they'll simply pull their support from this team and do it quickly.

I think it blows over. For goodness gracious, it's just another shooting. lol

I don't even care. I have already learned it will take at least rape or murder by a player for me to stop tuning in. I think that must go for the majority of the Pacer fans who are left. In fact, we might even pick up some new fans from certain segments of society. lol.

idioteque
12-09-2007, 10:18 AM
However, you have been listening to the professors for too long. Businesses are in it to make money and are not responsible for the public welfare. Just because it seems fair for the Colts to "pony up", you just cannot base societal interests on such a whim. It's government's (ie. the general public) responsibility to reign them in by enacting laws and regulations.



I think we agree way more than we disagree, I just wish the Colts as a whole had an owner who was a bit more of a humanitarian like Abe Polin, who by the way is amazingly wealthy but totally revitalized a whole area of DC in the process. I am a huge Colts fan but I think even a lot of us in Indianapolis can agree that the Irsays (Robert especially) are some of the more heartless owners in professional sports.

From what I remember the area around the Fieldhouse was kinda shifty to say the least before the Fieldhouse itself was built. I may be wrong about this.

benjaminooo
12-09-2007, 10:23 AM
8 seconds saloon
Cloud 9

The only logical explanation is that Tinsley is huge numbers fan and is planning his next "incident" at club TEN (yes, the lesbian bar at 12th & Penn).

One would also expect that after that there will only be one more occurrence after TEN since the Tin-man sports the number 11 on the court.

Does Jamaal have plans to open his own club 11 thus sealing the fate of this numbers game?

Stay tuned!


--------------

Seriously though,


I'm in support of Jamaal Tinsley, at this point he's the victim no matter what his past is.

I'm stoked he keeps a place downtown, the burbs are no place for a young rich man... ok yeah, the cornfield might provide a little more privacy ;)

Also Tin-man is playing out of his MIND right now.. I love it and I want him to stick around as long as possible. He's keeping it really interesting! :D

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 10:26 AM
I think we agree way more than we disagree, I just wish the Colts as a whole had an owner who was a bit more of a humanitarian like Abe Polin, who by the way is amazingly wealthy but totally revitalized a whole area of DC in the process. I am a huge Colts fan but I think even a lot of us in Indianapolis can agree that the Irsays (Robert especially) are some of the more heartless owners in professional sports.

I know we agree on goals. I am simply older and more jaded.

As for the Irsays, you have them pegged. They are not the prototypical generous corporate citizen. There are people like that, but its not the norm...and more to the point, you cannot hold anyone to it without wielding a statute or two.

The Jumpshot Still Money
12-09-2007, 10:29 AM
to hell wit PR
just glad he's okay
if you stop supporting a team because of something like this you're not a basketball fan and we don't need you

D-BONE
12-09-2007, 10:29 AM
I agree the Colts got a handout from the state...and I am totally in agreement with some of the goals you seem to have in mind.

However, you have been listening to the professors for too long. Businesses are in it to make money and are not responsible for the public welfare. Just because it seems fair for the Colts to "pony up", you just cannot base societal interests on such a whim. It's government's (ie. the general public) responsibility to reign them in by enacting laws and regulations.

Our immigration and trade policies would be my place to start.

If the enormous challenge of changing these "segments" of culture and trying to improve impoverished and undeprivileged situations and their accompanying problems are all on the gov't, I don't have a lot of faith.

I would argue that your assertion that businesses are in it to make money and have no public responsibility is actually a symptom of the broader cultural problem. This really just communicates to the lower class that those with wealth and power don't care and that our culture does not support any shared attempt to help pull up people.

Of course, it has to be a two way street. People have to do their part to improve themselves, as well. No argument there. But what is the likliehood of someone buying into that when the overarching message is nobody cares they are just out to make money. Everyone should be responsible for public welfare to the extent that we all form the community in which we reside.

idioteque
12-09-2007, 10:32 AM
to hell wit PR
just glad he's okay
if you stop supporting a team because of something like this you're not a basketball fan and we don't need you

To hell with PR? We're 28th in attendance and we need all the fans we can get.

Hicks
12-09-2007, 10:38 AM
I wanted to drop in to say, Aw Heck, that avatar is classic.

Secondly, and more importantly, from what I've read so far it sounds like Tinsley's only mistake was being there at all. Aside from that, he sounds like the (would be?) victim here.

I still think people will hate him (not on PD, but in general) for this because they won't bother to read the stories. They'll only read "Jamaal Tinsley involved in shooting".

Hicks
12-09-2007, 10:41 AM
I really don't understand why rich athletes, who work so hard to get out of the ghetto, always manage to find themselves back in there.

"When keepin' it real goes wrong."

Tom White
12-09-2007, 10:42 AM
to hell wit PR
just glad he's okay
if you stop supporting a team because of something like this you're not a basketball fan and we don't need you

...and you were appointed as the supreme opinion on this by whom?

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 10:57 AM
If the enormous challenge of changing these "segments" of culture and trying to improve impoverished and undeprivileged situations and their accompanying problems are all on the gov't, I don't have a lot of faith.

I would argue that your assertion that businesses are in it to make money and have no public responsibility is actually a symptom of the broader cultural problem. This really just communicates to the lower class that those with wealth and power don't care and that our culture does not support any shared attempt to help pull up people.

Of course, it has to be a two way street. People have to do their part to improve themselves, as well. No argument there. But what is the likliehood of someone buying into that when the overarching message is nobody cares they are just out to make money. Everyone should be responsible for public welfare to the extent that we all form the community in which we reside.

I think you make some good points. It would be nice if the business community took more responsibility. I just completely lack faith that will ever happen...and I don't see that as their role in society...but I do think you make a good argument that it could be a cultural problem of its own.....yet many businesses and people believe they do their part by paying taxes, and to a certain extent I agree with that. Complicated issue here...

At the same time, businesses lobby our government officials and enact laws against the general public interest. That's where my undies get in a knot.

It is this bad faith intent that gets my goat, not the good faith intent to compete in the marketplace without the added responsibility to support the general public welfare.

Wu-Gambino
12-09-2007, 11:02 AM
Can some one clear this up for me?


As they were leaving the club, they say some people outside were looking at their cars. There was an argument, and the Tinsley brothers and their friends left in three cars, all registered to Jamaal Tinsley, who was not present.

from the Star
Shots fired at Pacers’ Jamaal Tinsley
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771209001

Jamaal Tinsley of the Pacers and several companions were shot at in three of Tinsley's vehicles by someone armed with an assault rifle outside the Conrad Hotel in Downtown Indianapolis early today, wounding a person who was with the athlete.

Police said Joey Qatato, 48, was struck in both elbows as he sat with Tinsley in the player's Rolls Royce. The Pacers' Web site identifies Qatato as the team's equipment manager.
Sgt. Paul Thompson, a spokesman for the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department, said two of the vehicles in Tinsley's group followed the shooters in a chase to Monument Circle, and Tinsley's brother, James, returned fire at the attackers. It was unknown whether anyone was hit. Jamaal Tinlsey was not involved in the chase, Thompson said.

Authorities were called to the hotel where the initial shooting occurred at 50 W. Washington St. about 3:40 a.m.

Thompson said the incident began at a club called "Cloud 9" on West 38th Street. A group was giving members of Tinsley's crew a hard time about the expensive cars they were driving – a Mercedes, Rolls Royce and a Dodge Charger – and the amount of money they made.

Tinsley's group left the club but realized that they were being followed by a gray Chrysler and a dark pickup truck, Thompson said, so they pulled into the Conrad instead of going home.

The shooting began after they reached the hotel, police said. The Rolls Royce was struck by several bullets. The Charger also was struck and was found to have five bullet holes, Thompson said.

Police said the suspected weapon is a .223 assault rifle.

Only one person was arrested on the scene -- Antoine Toon, 31, a member of the Tinsley group wanted on an unrelated warrant out of Georgia.

Thompson said it could be determined later today whether James Tinsley, who had a gun permit, will face charges for returning fire at the other vehicles. Meanwhile, authorities are looking for the two vehicles driven by those who shot at Tinsley's group as they investigate the incident.

Tinsley is scheduled to stand trial next month. He and teammate Marquis Daniels are due in court Jan. 14 on charges stemming from a bar fight at the 8 Seconds Saloon. A grand jury indicted Tinsley on a felony charge of intimidation, and misdemeanor counts of battery, disorderly conduct and intimidation from the Feb. 6 incident. Daniels is charged with battery and disorderly conduct, both misdemeanors.

IndyFan032589
12-09-2007, 11:07 AM
How would you constitute a "ghetto club?"

You're obviously a young guy (as am I) and you're trying to tell grown men what to do. What is LB going to do, call all of the Pacers at 10pm and ask them where they are, or better yet install tracking devices into their cars so he knows where they are at all times? That notion in and of itself is silly.

If LB really thinks Tinsley could cause a major, major problem for himself or someone else he needs to trade him. If he meets with Tinsley and realizes that isn't the case, then he needs to keep him. There is no use trying to tell grown men how to run their lives.

I don't think anyone should try to tell someone what to do. But if we must keep the hazard that is Tinsley, then give him(and the rest of the team) a curfew...or at least a set of guidlines or LB could go ask the Wizard for a backbone and not support the players that are idiots and have poor judgement. If this was the first time Tinsley was caught up in some scandal on 38th St, I'd let it slide...like I did with Shawne...everyone screws up. But Jamaal obviously has no plans to change his 'hood' lifestyle, which is fine, if he wants to do that it's his issue, over the past year or two he's in an "altercation" every few months. But if he won't change(and the prognosis isn't positive) then he needs to be on the first flight out of Indy.

And a "ghetto club" is Club Rio...Tremors...Cloud 9. A "Non Ghetto Club" would be something like Six...Ice Ultra Lounge...Gelo Ultra Lounge....All very classy clubs where athletes are a lot of the time. But Tinsley doesn't seem to want to hang with that crowd, which again, is fine, it's his issue. But if he wants to flaunt his riches, he needs to go to the nice clubs so that he's not confronted. When you're driving a Rolls on dubs at 4:30am on 38th St. someone is bound to be drunk and get jealous and start something, you may not start the problems but you're putting yourself out there and not trying to hard to avoid that dangerous lifestyle. It's just stupidity on his part, IMO.

Kegboy
12-09-2007, 11:13 AM
But of course, the title of the Star's Pacer article today:

Shooting accuracy point of concern

:blush:

Hicks
12-09-2007, 11:14 AM
IMO if it's in the best interest of the compnay, a boss has the right to tell an employee what to do in this context. Legally, the employee does NOT have to do it. But if you're willingly doing something that your employer honestly feels hurts his business.....

The Jumpshot Still Money
12-09-2007, 11:41 AM
...and you were appointed as the supreme opinion on this by whom?

Jesus.



na wtf everyone else states their opinion, but when i state mine i'm all of a sudden "the supreme opinion"..?
if we were undefeated or we had superstars on our team like the Celtics we'd have plenty of attendance
who doesn't go to a game because a team has "thugs" on their roster?
a racist that's who
yall concerned w/ everything BUT basketball
but i'm not from Indy maybe i don't think like you all

sweabs
12-09-2007, 11:48 AM
I imagine it was not the greatest decision to be where Tinsley was at the time. But, these men are grown adults and I'm not about to tell them what they can and cannot do.

My biggest concern was whether he was okay...and I'm glad he is.

IndyFan032589
12-09-2007, 11:51 AM
Jesus.



na wtf everyone else states their opinion, but when i state mine i'm all of a sudden "the supreme opinion"..?
if we were undefeated or we had superstars on our team like the Celtics we'd have plenty of attendance
who doesn't go to a game because a team has "thugs" on their roster?
a racist that's who
yall concerned w/ everything BUT basketball
but i'm not from Indy maybe i don't think like you all


Ummmm......I was not under the impression "Thug" had anything to do with race.

Isaac
12-09-2007, 11:55 AM
My biggest concern was whether he was okay...and I'm glad he is.

:amen: That was the only thing I thought about when I read about this.

The reports on this seem sketchy though. In the same article they say that Jamaal was involved in a shooting with his brothers, and then they say that he wasn't there. Was he there or was he not? It doesn't make a difference to me either way, as long as he's ok, but it still seems like the reporters are not sure if he was there or not.

The Jumpshot Still Money
12-09-2007, 11:59 AM
Ummmm......I was not under the impression "Thug" had anything to do with race.

well w/ all do respect
you're naive and/or ignorant

IndyFan032589
12-09-2007, 12:12 PM
well w/ all do respect
you're naive and/or ignorant

So white people can't be thugs??? Hispanics can't be thugs??? You think black people can only be thugs and that's why people don't like Jamaal. Jamaal acts like a thug: Fact, and he is black: Fact. But people don't like him b/c he thinks with his *** not b/c of his race. When do people complain about Granger or O'Neal off court?? Never, b/c they have class. To think that thug means black is in fact naive/ignorant.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 12:17 PM
Hey, not to interrupt this fascinating discussion of socioeconomic racial politics, but Mile's question is a good one. The article seems to contradict itself... was Tinsley present, or were his brothers just borrowing his car?

Roaming Gnome
12-09-2007, 12:19 PM
Ummmm......I was not under the impression "Thug" had anything to do with race.

Yeah, usually when the word "thug" is thrown around like it is in the modern context of the word... there are usually racial overtones that are implied. The same with throwing the word "Ghetto" around. Look, west 38th street is not the upper north side, but it is far from a "ghetto". I get really irritated with how loose that word is tossed around when it comes to neighborhoods that are lower income areas. Look, the area where Shawn Williams had his run-in with the law is pretty close to "ghetto", but an area where there is a large shopping mall, a Best Buy, and a Red Lobster hardly qualifies as Ghetto.

Look, just because a pro athlete comes into money doesn't change what he believes and most of the thoughts of "staying in suburbia" just because you have money isn't going to wash. It's just going to sound ignorant and insensitive.


a "ghetto club" is Club Rio...Tremors...Cloud 9. A "Non Ghetto Club" would be something like Six...Ice Ultra Lounge...Gelo Ultra Lounge....All very classy clubs where athletes are a lot of the time.
How would you even begin to know, you are not even old enough to be in a club.

Hell, by the way you are going about this. You hardly sound like you even know what a ghetto is, let alone can qualify what is Ghetto and what is not.

Putnam
12-09-2007, 12:21 PM
well w/ all do respect you're naive and/or ignorant


With all do respect, I love the IGNORE feature on this forum.

D-BONE
12-09-2007, 12:23 PM
So white people can't be thugs??? Hispanics can't be thugs??? You think black people can only be thugs and that's why people don't like Jamaal. Jamaal acts like a thug: Fact, and he is black: Fact. But people don't like him b/c he thinks with his *** not b/c of his race. When do people complain about Granger or O'Neal off court?? Never, b/c they have class. To think that thug means black is in fact naive/ignorant.

So then your definition of a thug is a "classless" person? And Tins has no "class" b/c he chooses not to hang out with the rich crowd at "classy" clubs as opposed to "ghetto" clubs?

I'll grant that people may question his judgment, although it is his perogative. However, it seems difficult to assign terms like classy to DG and JO if you don't know them personally and likewise thug or classless with Tins. Or maybe you are good friends with all three.

Elgin56
12-09-2007, 12:23 PM
Well I no more said that the Tinman was winning me over one game at a time and now this situation. I wore myself out on Jackson and his many off court transgressions and I have nothing left for Tins misdeeds. Play ball!

The Jumpshot Still Money
12-09-2007, 12:25 PM
LOL you won't have to use it often i rarely post on here
funny the 1st time i actually argue i get ignored
sensitive?
but yea, i'm black and i kno the term "thug" is usually used w/ young black males or black males in general
argue all you want but i kno what i'm talking about

go pacers, i'm out

D-BONE
12-09-2007, 12:26 PM
Yeah, usually when the word "thug" is thrown around like it is in the modern context of the word... there are usually racial overtones that are implied. The same with throwing the word "Ghetto" around. Look, west 38th street is not the upper north side, but it is far from a "ghetto". I get really irritated with how loose that word is tossed around when it comes to neighborhoods that are lower income areas. Look, the area where Shawn Williams had his run-in with the law is pretty close to "ghetto", but an area where there is a large shopping mall, a Best Buy, and a Red Lobster hardly qualifies as Ghetto.

Look, just because a pro athlete comes into money doesn't change what he believes and most of the thoughts of "staying in suburbia" just because you have money isn't going to wash. It's just going to sound ignorant and insensitive.

Very well said.

Brian
12-09-2007, 12:39 PM
You cant lead a horse to water.....


Im sure that 99.9% of the stuff that happens with the athletes and the shootings that come from clubs is this;


You have a guy (either a working-class guy,or a drug dealer) who works hard at what they do,and they have there little bit of money and they decide to go to the club,Well for the time they have all the girls/attention on them,and they are drinking lots of expensive liquor.When all of a sudden in walks (insert whatever athletes name you want).And all of the attention switches to that athlete.

We all know there is ALOT of jelousy in the world,and you mix in booze with jelousy and add a dash of women to the equation,that equals a bad result for anyone involved.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-09-2007, 12:44 PM
2 things.....


1.Despite the classic definition of the word "Thug", when used in today's society it conjurs up images of a young black man.

2.Jamaal Tinsley wasn't present according to the article.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-09-2007, 01:05 PM
I'm not accusing anyone of being racist.

Here's the Bar & Grill Jamaal's friends were at....Cloud 9 (http://www.cloud9barandgrill.com)

They offer a Sunday Gospel Breakfast. It looks like a pretty decent place actually.

Unclebuck
12-09-2007, 01:37 PM
I'm not accusing anyone of being racist.

Here's the Bar & Grill Jamaal's friends were at....Cloud 9 (http://www.cloud9barandgrill.com)

They offer a Sunday Gospel Breakfast. It looks like a pretty decent place actually.

That place looks pretty nice. Non-smoking, no jeans allowed, business attire. Seems like a nice place.


I'm not upset at Tinsley for this incident, I am simply not, There is no crime about being out at 3:30 AM, there is no game until Tuesday - who knows the pacers might not even have a practice today.

I'm just thinking about the past year and the number of times I've been out past 2:00 AM and at no time did I think, well if something bad happens to me it is my own fault for being out this late - nor did I think being out that late should reflect poorly on my character or anything like that

Evan_The_Dude
12-09-2007, 01:38 PM
Hey, not to interrupt this fascinating discussion of socioeconomic racial politics, but Mile's question is a good one. The article seems to contradict itself... was Tinsley present, or were his brothers just borrowing his car?

Thank you. Everybody wants to jump the gun so quickly that they're ignoring the major contradiction in that article that has now been said TWICE.

Trader Joe
12-09-2007, 01:40 PM
For all the things we may want to say about this event the ONLY thing that matters is that Tinley is OK. We could have been awoken to a much more devastating story and been having a pretty somber discussion about our favorite Tinsley memories. Thank God we're not.

BoomBaby33
12-09-2007, 01:42 PM
In this situation is seems to me that Jamaal did nothing wrong. He was leaving a place, some guys who were probably drunk decided to cause some problems, Tinsley did the correct thing and left, they were followed and Tinsley did the correct thing going to a public place instead of going home - although going to the police station would have been better, or calling the police.

I do find it interesting that Joe Quato - the equipment manager was with him.


Of course you could say the obvious, why was Tinsley out so late and in a bad part of town - bad judgment perhaps, but nothing criminal there.

The real problem is public perception - that the Pacers are a bunch of thugs involved in another shooting incident. - That is all most people will know about this and that is all they really care about. Nothing like an incident that confirms public perception.

Thats the first thing that I found odd as well. Joey doesn't seem to fit in with Tinsley's "entourage". Its also unfortunate that he was the one who got hurt. Maybe he was "babysitting" to an extent.

I still find it discouraging that he is out at 3:40am (no matter where it is), with his "entourage". That just screams "look at us", we are together, don't mess with us. That just makes them a larger target. There is absolutely nothing good that happens at 2-3-4 in the morning. Ever.

UB, your right, nothing criminal here, but its the basic fact that he is out at that time of night / morning.

I still don't understand why they cant just stay home and bring the "party" to them. Its not like Tins doesn't have the money. I know they are human, just like the rest of us, but for God's sakes, they have to know they will be targeted. Thats just the penalty you pay to be in the public image and basically the face of the Pacer franchise. You have to say to yourself "maybe this is a bad idea".

I just wonder if Tins will be suspended for being out that late. After all, LB and Obie have stated that they have a zero tolerance policy.

And to think Tins was becoming the go-to guy. Now this will hang over him, and add more his montra.

CableKC
12-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Geez louise....I wake up to check PD and this is what I find? :banghead:

OnlyPacersLeft
12-09-2007, 02:12 PM
reminds me of Tpain..."I can't stay out this cluuuuuuuuub" lol...

but for real you can't blame tinsley for this. And you can't blow this out of proportion...but of course a lot of fans on here love to hate tinsley...

mike_D
12-09-2007, 02:21 PM
I imagine it was not the greatest decision to be where Tinsley was at the time. But, these men are grown adults and I'm not about to tell them what they can and cannot do.

My biggest concern was whether he was okay...and I'm glad he is.

I agree I'm glad he is okay.Which is the most important thing.

In todays world employers do have the right to tell you what you can or cannot do. I'm a cop , my job tells me who I can or cannot hang out with, where I can or cannot hang out, how much i can drink, where I can work a second job and ect.I could go on and on.You know what if I screw up I make the front page of every local newspaper, and I lose my job and my pension.There nothing I can complain about because I signed up for it.Now people will say well cops are held to a higher standard and I agree with that but anybody reguardless of where you work that makes your employer look bad your probably going to get fired, thats the way it works.

Tinsely in the same situation, he's in the public eye, he's an important piece to this team, if he screws up he can seriously damage his employers reputation and if he does it enough times he could see himself without a job.This is an organization that has had way to many outside incidents and thats a problem considering this organization is having problems bringing fans to the game.I have no doubt in my mind alot of it is due to the off the court issues.

Tinsley has to understand everywhere he goes, everthing he says,everything he does will be scrutinized.That comes with the job. He's not just representing himself but the Pacers as well.He needs to understand that and I don't think he truly gets it.He needs to choose his friends wisely and by that I mean stay away from trouble makers and known criminals stay away from night clubs that have a history of problems(not saying cloud 9 has a rep because I have no idea) It stinks but he's going to have to sacrifice a little bit, he's going to have to decide what is more important to him. If he doesn't want to make any sacrifices he can always be his own boss and open his own business. No one is forcing a gun to his head to stay in the NBA.

Hoop
12-09-2007, 02:34 PM
Key words: West 38th St.

Stay out of the ghetto and ghetto things won't happen!!!!!! Jeez, Does this dude have a brain???

I know when I hit the clubs on W. 38th, I alway try to stay low-key by driving my Rolls. Be rich and drive the Rolls or be ghetto and go to clubs on 38th St. but don't try and make both worlds coexist. It won't work.


He sure didn't do anything to prevent it by driving a $350K car in the hood.
:bs: Do you have a brain?

The man can drive what ever kind a car he wants and go anywhere he damn well pleases. :censored:

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 02:49 PM
The man can drive what ever kind a car he wants and go anywhere he damn well pleases. :censored:

Yes he can. And the same thing is likely to happen again, and again and again.....

Sorry if the truth gets in the way here...

Anthem
12-09-2007, 02:51 PM
Thank you. Everybody wants to jump the gun so quickly that they're ignoring the major contradiction in that article that has now been said TWICE.
I just can't figure it out... the first article seems to say both things. I guess "involving Jamaal Tinsley and his three brothers" could just mean that the brothers were there, and they were in Jamaal's car.

MistyRo76
12-09-2007, 02:59 PM
I just can't figure it out... the first article seems to say both things. I guess "involving Jamaal Tinsley and his three brothers" could just mean that the brothers were there, and they were in Jamaal's car.


What I got from the articles that I have read (and I could be wrong), is that Tinsley was there at the club and was in one of the three cars who were being followed. But he was not present when a member of his party fired shots back. I read in one of the articles that two of the three cars with Tins, took off in pursuit of the guys following them, while the third (presumably with Tins inside it) stayed at the hotel where they pulled into. It was during the chase that the shots from his brother were fired.

benjaminooo
12-09-2007, 02:59 PM
8 seconds saloon
Cloud 9

The only logical explanation is that Tinsley is huge numbers fan and is planning his next "incident" at club TEN (yes, the lesbian bar at 12th & Penn).

One would also expect that after that there will only be one more occurrence after TEN since the Tin-man sports the number 11 on the court.

Does Jamaal have plans to open his own club 11 thus sealing the fate of this numbers game?

Stay tuned!


I made a movie trailer about my numbers theory.. warning there is some adult language!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8sTLPA9Jk

indyman37
12-09-2007, 03:05 PM
Yeah, the article is confusing but Tinsley was present.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 03:12 PM
What I got from the articles that I have read (and I could be wrong), is that Tinsley was there at the club and was in one of the three cars who were being followed. But he was not present when a member of his party fired shots back. I read in one of the articles that two of the three cars with Tins, took off in pursuit of the guys following them, while the third (presumably with Tins inside it) stayed at the hotel where they pulled into. It was during the chase that the shots from his brother were fired.

That's consistent with my interpretation of the articles I have read.

You never do know for sure whether something written is ever true. By golly, maybe it was Granger and his brothers involved in this incident. lol.

None of this has changed my view of Tinsley. Just get him back on the court right now!

waterjater
12-09-2007, 03:14 PM
That place looks pretty nice. Non-smoking, no jeans allowed, business attire. Seems like a nice place.


I'm not upset at Tinsley for this incident, I am simply not, There is no crime about being out at 3:30 AM, there is no game until Tuesday - who knows the pacers might not even have a practice today.

I'm just thinking about the past year and the number of times I've been out past 2:00 AM and at no time did I think, well if something bad happens to me it is my own fault for being out this late - nor did I think being out that late should reflect poorly on my character or anything like that


Well said Unclebuck! I still love to go out and see bands play at clubs all around San Diego where I live now and I'm 41 years old with kids. Most bands don't start playing til 10pm and typically play til 2am. Can't blame him for going out with friends! Smart of him to head to a public place hoping the idiots following him would pass on their attack.

Shade mentioned something about not addressing how bad west 38th had gotten and I have to agree. I grew up just north of Indy and used to hang out at the Lafayette Square mall...hell, rode my moped there when I was 15, see movies at night, dinner etc. That was a great area of town!!! Just a shame to see what it has turned into.

Glad Tinsley is ok.

Water

D-BONE
12-09-2007, 03:17 PM
I agree I'm glad he is okay.Which is the most important thing.

In todays world employers do have the right to tell you what you can or cannot do. I'm a cop , my job tells me who I can or cannot hang out with, where I can or cannot hang out, how much i can drink, where I can work a second job and ect.I could go on and on.You know what if I screw up I make the front page of every local newspaper, and I lose my job and my pension.There nothing I can complain about because I signed up for it.Now people will say well cops are held to a higher standard and I agree with that but anybody reguardless of where you work that makes your employer look bad your probably going to get fired, thats the way it works.

Tinsely in the same situation, he's in the public eye, he's an important piece to this team, if he screws up he can seriously damage his employers reputation and if he does it enough times he could see himself without a job.This is an organization that has had way to many outside incidents and thats a problem considering this organization is having problems bringing fans to the game.I have no doubt in my mind alot of it is due to the off the court issues.

Tinsley has to understand everywhere he goes, everthing he says,everything he does will be scrutinized.That comes with the job. He's not just representing himself but the Pacers as well.He needs to understand that and I don't think he truly gets it.He needs to choose his friends wisely and by that I mean stay away from trouble makers and known criminals stay away from night clubs that have a history of problems(not saying cloud 9 has a rep because I have no idea) It stinks but he's going to have to sacrifice a little bit, he's going to have to decide what is more important to him. If he doesn't want to make any sacrifices he can always be his own boss and open his own business. No one is forcing a gun to his head to stay in the NBA.


All this only applies if his employer is actually willing to terminate him. Perhaps some truly ugly incident could result in that, but not this one unless something comes out other than what we know. It appears confusing as to when or if he was present. In any case, based on what we know so far, it does not appear he was in the wrong.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 03:18 PM
Well I no more said that the Tinman was winning me over one game at a time and now this situation. I wore myself out on Jackson and his many off court transgressions and I have nothing left for Tins misdeeds. Play ball!

Amen brother. There's nothing left. No more complaints from me. Just keep on shooting...lol.

Just don't wanna see any serious crimes like murder or rape.

spazzxb
12-09-2007, 03:19 PM
Maybe indianapolis needs to clean up there city. Its quite the hood your building down there in central indiana.


Obviously they're more selective about where they go at night.

Tinsley needed to exercise better judgment about where he went last night. Other than that, I don't think there's anything else to blame him for. Unlike previous incidents, it sounds like he didn't start it and he tried to avoid it.

This doesn't bother me as much as Club Rio or 8 Second Saloon. Although he really needs to figure out that there are certain places he shouldn't be late at night. Who knows, maybe after being shot at and having someone get hit, maybe that will finally hit home.

indyman37
12-09-2007, 03:21 PM
Emotions mixed after latest Tinsley incident
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/tinsley_incident_071209.html


By Conrad Brunner | Dec. 9, 2007 <HR>Relief. Frustration. Confusion. Uncertainty.


The Pacers were dealing with a jumble of emotions Sunday in the aftermath of another early-morning incident involving point guard Jamaal Tinsley, whose party was fired upon by an assailant armed with an assault rifle in front of the Conrad Hotel Sunday morning. Pacers equipment manager Joe Qatato was wounded in both elbows and remains hospitalized.
“Upset,” said team President Larry Bird when asked his first response to the news. “I really didn’t know what to think about it. I was just hoping everybody was alright. You feel bad any time your players are in some situations, you feel bad for everything that happened. I don’t know enough about everything that went on to talk a lot in detail but I just feel bad for the organization. I’m very passionate about this organization, always have been, and we’ve had some things that’s happened here that have really bothered me and bothered our fans and really the whole state. We’ll get through this but it’s tough right now.”

According to police, the incident began at “Cloud 9,” a club on West 38th Street in Indianapolis, where Tinsley’s group was being chided about their expensive cars – including a Rolls Royce – and obvious wealth. Tinsley’s group left the club but was followed to The Conrad by a gray Chrysler and a dark pickup truck. That’s where the shooting began, with the Rolls Royce struck by several bullets and another vehicle on Tinsley’s caravan taking five bullet holes, adding the suspected weapon is a .223 caliber assault rifle.
It was the third time in a little more than a year Tinsley has been involved in events rooted in nightclubs in the same area. He is scheduled to stand trial next month in charges from a fight at the 8 Second Saloon last February. He was also present but not charged in October 2006 when former teammate Stephen Jackson fired gunshots in the air after a car ran into him in the parking lot of Club Rio.

“Jamaal put himself in a situation that was very, very dangerous,” said Coach Jim O’Brien. “These guys have every right to go to a nightclub. I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning. As a professional athlete, where we’re in an environment nationally that has seen professional athletes targeted, it was not a good decision and that’s basically it. It was not a good decision. I’m sure he knows that and I’m sure there will be a lifestyle change for him . … But, to the best of our knowledge he was a victim. He wasn’t out there causing problems, he was victimized from everything we understand. The police will get to the bottom of it and we’ll move on.”
Tinsley did not practice with the team Sunday at Conseco Fieldhouse and will meet with Bird and O’Brien Monday morning to determine the franchise’s course of action. The Pacers next play Tuesday in Cleveland.

“We’ll deal with it,” Bird said. “We’ve got to find out the information first. We don’t know anything that’s going on. We can talk about what we’re going to do but until we know everything that happened, if our players are at fault, they’ll be punished. …
“This is something we can’t just put right behind us and walk away from. It’s something we’ll have to discuss. I don’t know how long it’ll take and we’ll continue to talk about it. We have to make a change, there’s no question about it.”
Team captain Jermaine O’Neal spoke for the players after Sunday’s practice, saying they would lend Tinsley their support.

“As players we understand the situation and we understand the backlash that comes,” O’Neal said. “As players we have to understand when we step out our house we are targets. We make a lot of money, we drive nice cars, people idolize us, but people also envy us. We have to make sure that we put ourselves in better situations. Not to say Jamaal wasn’t in a good situation, but we have to know what the situation is every time we leave our house.
“It’s very unfortunate, especially considering the type of year he’s having. He’s our early-season MVP. We need him to play very, very well. We’re going to support him. I know this city has been down this road with us before. Let the judicial process play itself out and continue to support us. This team is hitting its stride where we’re really starting to get healthy. We don’t want to be distracted. We know it’s a little bit of a distraction, but we’re going to play basketball and let Jamaal handle his situation and move on.” Police were investigating whether to file charges against Tinsley's brother, James, who returned fire. He had a permit for his weapon. The assailant escaped.

FlavaDave
12-09-2007, 03:24 PM
Here's ESPN's take:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3147811

Doddage
12-09-2007, 03:25 PM
Yeah and if you look here, there are plenty-o-ignorant comment:
http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/3147811

aceace
12-09-2007, 03:43 PM
ESPN actually covered it with taste. I'm glad they stated that pro-athletes have become targets. Because after reading this entire thread thats what I was thinking about. Athletes and the amount of money they make are what is causing this. Someone mentioned jealousy thats a big part of it. These guys on the Pacers,Colts and any pro franchise are going to have to realize that they are going to be in confrontations because some are looking for an easy lawsuit. As long as CNN,ESPN and others plaster the criminals faces on TV others will follow looking for their 15 minutes of fame. IMHO... Tins did nothing wrong.

CableKC
12-09-2007, 03:54 PM
As long as Tinsley did not shoot or fight with anyone....then I don't see him doing anything wrong here. This could have happened to any pro athelete out there.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 03:55 PM
ESPN actually covered it with taste. I'm glad they stated that pro-athletes have become targets. Because after reading this entire thread thats what I was thinking about. Athletes and the amount of money they make are what is causing this. Someone mentioned jealousy thats a big part of it. These guys on the Pacers,Colts and any pro franchise are going to have to realize that they are going to be in confrontations because some are looking for an easy lawsuit. As long as CNN,ESPN and others plaster the criminals faces on TV others will follow looking for their 15 minutes of fame. IMHO... Tins did nothing wrong.

Poor Jamaal. Three incidents in one year. Must have broke a mirror or something.

Reggie Wayne, Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Dwight Freeney, Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy, etc.......all of them just must be lucky. LOL!

What a pile of :bs:

Anthem
12-09-2007, 04:11 PM
When Paul Pierce got knifed outside a club, almost nobody walked around saying that it was fault for going to the club. They said "Wow, sucks to be Pierce, dude got knifed and could die." When he came back, it was a major success story. Tinsley got shot at with an assault rifle, and all anybody's talking about is the etymology of the word "thug" and the best places to get dinner on 38th Street.

I'm a family man, not a partier at all, and it's not hard for me to be out until midnight even if I have to be at work at 8 the next day. If I could sleep in until 11, had the day off anyway, and my three brothers were in town, I wouldn't feel bad at all about being out after midnight.

NBA players work nights. It's what they do. You think they play ball until 9:30 and are in bed by 10? Forget it. It's just like working swing shift... when I worked swing, I never went to bed before 2 or 3. This doesn't mean they're lazy or delinquent or anything else... it means they have a different work schedule than you do.

======

Tinsley did exactly the right thing here. He saw trouble developing, he left without talking to anyone, got in his car, and drove home. The fact that some crazy followed him with an AK-47 should tell you more about the dude packing the AK than Tinsley.

heywoode
12-09-2007, 04:15 PM
When Paul Pierce got knifed outside a club, almost nobody walked around saying that it was fault for going to the club. They said "Wow, sucks to be Pierce, dude got knifed and could die." When he came back, it was a major success story. Tinsley got shot at with an assault rifle, and all anybody's talking about is the etymology of the word "thug" and the best places to get dinner on 38th Street.

I'm a family man, not a partier at all, and it's not hard for me to be out until midnight even if I have to be at work at 8 the next day. If I could sleep in until 11, had the day off anyway, and my three brothers were in town, I wouldn't feel bad at all about being out after midnight.

NBA players work nights. It's what they do. You think they play ball until 9:30 and are in bed by 10? Forget it. It's just like working swing shift... when I worked swing, I never went to bed before 2 or 3. This doesn't mean they're lazy or delinquent or anything else... it means they have a different work schedule than you do.

======

Tinsley did exactly the right thing here. He saw trouble developing, he left without talking to anyone, got in his car, and drove home. The fact that some crazy followed him with an AK-47 should tell you more about the dude packing the AK than Tinsley.

I'm with Anthem...

FlavaDave
12-09-2007, 04:18 PM
When Paul Pierce got knifed outside a club, almost nobody walked around saying that it was fault for going to the club. They said "Wow, sucks to be Pierce, dude got knifed and could die." When he came back, it was a major success story. Tinsley got shot at with an assault rifle, and all anybody's talking about is the etymology of the word "thug" and the best places to get dinner on 38th Street.

I'm a family man, not a partier at all, and it's not hard for me to be out until midnight even if I have to be at work at 8 the next day. If I could sleep in until 11, had the day off anyway, and my three brothers were in town, I wouldn't feel bad at all about being out after midnight.

NBA players work nights. It's what they do. You think they play ball until 9:30 and are in bed by 10? Forget it. It's just like working swing shift... when I worked swing, I never went to bed before 2 or 3. This doesn't mean they're lazy or delinquent or anything else... it means they have a different work schedule than you do.

======

Tinsley did exactly the right thing here. He saw trouble developing, he left without talking to anyone, got in his car, and drove home. The fact that some crazy followed him with an AK-47 should tell you more about the dude packing the AK than Tinsley.



Amen.

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 04:21 PM
Emotions mixed after latest Tinsley incident
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/tinsley_incident_071209.html


By Conrad Brunner | Dec. 9, 2007 <HR>Relief. Frustration.
“Jamaal put himself in a situation that was very, very dangerous,” said Coach Jim O’Brien. “These guys have every right to go to a nightclub. I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning. As a professional athlete, where we’re in an environment nationally that has seen professional athletes targeted, it was not a good decision and that’s basically it. It was not a good decision. I’m sure he knows that and I’m sure there will be a lifestyle change for him . … .”


Well I'll be d@mned.

Somebody in the Pacers organization has some guts. About time.

QuickRelease
12-09-2007, 04:21 PM
I've never understood why these guys with all this money don't just party at home...eliminate the variable of jealous nut jobs.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 04:28 PM
When Paul Pierce got knifed outside a club, almost nobody walked around saying that it was fault for going to the club. They said "Wow, sucks to be Pierce, dude got knifed and could die." When he came back, it was a major success story. Tinsley got shot at with an assault rifle, and all anybody's talking about is the etymology of the word "thug" and the best places to get dinner on 38th Street.

I'm a family man, not a partier at all, and it's not hard for me to be out until midnight even if I have to be at work at 8 the next day. If I could sleep in until 11, had the day off anyway, and my three brothers were in town, I wouldn't feel bad at all about being out after midnight.

NBA players work nights. It's what they do. You think they play ball until 9:30 and are in bed by 10? Forget it. It's just like working swing shift... when I worked swing, I never went to bed before 2 or 3. This doesn't mean they're lazy or delinquent or anything else... it means they have a different work schedule than you do.

======

Tinsley did exactly the right thing here. He saw trouble developing, he left without talking to anyone, got in his car, and drove home. The fact that some crazy followed him with an AK-47 should tell you more about the dude packing the AK than Tinsley.

I would buy what you have to say if there was not a pattern here. This is not just one incident.

Like it or not, Tinsley needs to stop doing whatever he's doing because it's getting unhealthy real quick. He could be dead right now. What if the Pacer trainer had been killed?

It's getting worse in Pacer land because someone is in the hospital with bullet wounds. Next time could be the morgue.

If other local celebs had the same issues, it would be different. But they don't. They are making the right decisions somehow....and there is such a thing. There is a level of responsibility they have to live up to, or the inevitable will happen whether it seems fair or not.

EDIT: BTW, I agree with what JOb had to say. There needs to be change, and no more passing the buck.

mb221
12-09-2007, 04:28 PM
Poor Jamaal. Three incidents in one year. Must have broke a mirror or something.

Reggie Wayne, Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Dwight Freeney, Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy, etc.......all of them just must be lucky. LOL!

What a pile of :bs:

I think everyone gets it buddy. How many times do you have to post the same thing in one thread?

Anyways, how about in Honolulu when Marvin Harrison was alleged to have choked a kid that asked him for an autograph?

JayRedd
12-09-2007, 04:30 PM
1) I love this team.

2) Anthem's right.

3) How does a person get shot in both elbows?

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 04:41 PM
I think everyone gets it buddy. How many times do you have to post the same thing in one thread?

Anyways, how about in Honolulu when Marvin Harrison was alleged to have choked a kid that asked him for an autograph?

Ok, buddy. Whatever you say. :rolleyes:

btw, the kid probably deserved it.

cgg
12-09-2007, 04:46 PM
3) How does a person get shot in both elbows?

And get released from the hospital the same day? Shot in the elbows sounds... painful?

Arcadian
12-09-2007, 04:46 PM
Tins did nothing wrong. I hope, however, he realizes that he is putting himself in dangerous situations and makes changes.

Dece
12-09-2007, 04:53 PM
You people are so hilariously ridiculous. A man gets shot at while trying to avoid a situation by driving to a public place, and it's HIS fault?

My god, I'm so thankful I don't live in Indiana with you fools. I suppose when a girl gets raped it's her fault for looking hot at the club too, right? She should know not to go into the club with a mini skirt on. Dumb girl, bet she learned her lesson this time, got raped good.

Honestly, how do some of you even remember to breathe, the stupidity is astounding.

Kegboy
12-09-2007, 04:53 PM
3) How does a person get shot in both elbows?

I thought of Wonder Woman and her bulletproof bracelets she wore.

Seriously, if he had his arms up protecting his head, I can see it happen. Considering he was already treated and released, I don't think the injuries were serious, thankfully.

BruceLeeroy
12-09-2007, 04:57 PM
I'm with BlueNGold. Remember this is obviously Tinsley and his friends version of the story because they've yet to find the shooters. Who knows what happened at the club before they were followed and shot at. Maybe it was nothing, but with Tinsleys history I doubt it.

Dude's playing great though so I can handle it.:devil:

Anthem
12-09-2007, 05:00 PM
I would buy what you have to say if there was not a pattern here. This is not just one incident.
Exactly right. And the pattern is that Tinsley is learning from past mistakes. What happened at 8 Seconds? Crazy three-fingered scam artist tries to pick a fight with the Pacers, and they fight back. Here, he sees trouble developing and gets the heck out of Dodge. That's absolutely the right thing to do.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 05:03 PM
I'm with BlueNGold. Remember this is obviously Tinsley and his friends version of the story because they've yet to find the shooters. Who knows what happened at the club before they were followed and shot at. Maybe it was nothing, but with Tinsleys history I doubt it.

Dude's playing great though so I can handle it.:devil:

Yes, Tins is playing great and we need him healthy. One more night out on West 38th street and you may see a casket one week and Travis Diener playing PG the next. Neither are things anyone wants to see.

heywoode
12-09-2007, 05:05 PM
I've never understood why these guys with all this money don't just party at home...eliminate the variable of jealous nut jobs.

I would imagine that partying at home gets pretty old after awhile. I'm not rich, but I have plenty of entertainment equipment/electronics to throw one hell of a party (I have been known to host events from time to time), but sometimes you just want to go out and be able to be in public like everybody else.

There is nothing wrong with him wanting to go out and be in public, able to enjoy a night out on the town with friends and/or family. I would agree that maybe he should consider different places to go and hang out, but he may not feel comfortable at some of the more upscale places. Just because one has money, it doesn't make them a socialite. Given the fact that a lot of gold diggers and hangers-on probably frequent the upscale places trolling for celebrities or wealthy people to cob onto, maybe he wanted to hang out outside the public eye and fly under the radar. The only problem with that is that when you are rich, it is obvious to people who aren't tend to get jealous and realize that you have so much to lose.

Tinsley (and others) is/are the victims here, and aside from the brother that returned fire, I'm fine with all of them getting nothing and I'm thankful nobody got hurt any worse than they did. The fool that was shooting back should face the same charges that Jackson faced after he decided to play Clive Owen in downtown Indy...Just because you are licensed to CARRY a firearm doesn't mean you are licensed to DISCHARGE said firearm. I could see a case of self defense when your life is in imminent danger where you wouldn't get charged with anything for firing your weapon. Maybe that will be the case here, maybe not.

I'm usually the first to condemn this type of behavior, but I see no reason this time why Tinsley deserves any punishment at all.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 05:06 PM
I'm with BlueNGold. Remember this is obviously Tinsley and his friends version of the story because they've yet to find the shooters. Who knows what happened at the club before they were followed and shot at.
You mean, the person who felt it appropriate to carry a loaded assault rifle in their car? Yeah, I really think THEY'RE going to come forward and give their side of the events. "Well, we didn't have any drive-bys on the schedule so we decided to see if we could jack a couple nice cars, then these guys drove too fast and it made us angry so we shot at them."

Look, if you're carrying an AK-47 around town, you're not some normal Joe who had one to many and went to get your piece from your truck. You're talking about somebody who wants to kill people (packing a Glock can be self-protection, but packing an AK means something different).

Tinsley's lucky... we could have gotten up this morning and the papers could have said "Pacers Star Point Guard Shot and Killed in Attempted Car-Jacking."

Anthem
12-09-2007, 05:09 PM
I'm usually the first to condemn this type of behavior, but I see no reason this time why Tinsley deserves any punishment at all.
Exactly.

Dece
12-09-2007, 05:09 PM
Shooting back is not a crime. His life was being placed in danger, and he was responding accordingly. Even if he had shot and killed the guy with the AK, he would not be going to jail.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 05:20 PM
Exactly right. And the pattern is that Tinsley is learning from past mistakes. What happened at 8 Seconds? Crazy three-fingered scam artist tries to pick a fight with the Pacers, and they fight back. Here, he sees trouble developing and gets the heck out of Dodge. That's absolutely the right thing to do.

Perhaps he is learning....although I think if Jax had been there things might have turned out worse.

IMO, Tinsley is not intending to go find trouble. The trouble has to do with WHERE he goes and nothing else....and on that point, he has not learned. He is certainly free to go wherever he wants in whatever ride he wants...at any time of the day, but common sense and reality says this is not wise.

When you take your Rolls to the clubs on West 38th street at 3am you are lucky not to get jacked or shot...particularly when you have a have a group of people with you that get mouthy. Not saying that happened. That's just how it usually works. There are some people that go to bars to pick fights. Tins and his entourage will always be a target under those circumstances. That does not, however, relieve him from making the right choices.

BruceLeeroy
12-09-2007, 05:25 PM
You mean, the person who felt it appropriate to carry a loaded assault rifle in their car? Yeah, I really think THEY'RE going to come forward and give their side of the events. "Well, we didn't have any drive-bys on the schedule so we decided to see if we could jack a couple nice cars, then these guys drove too fast and it made us angry so we shot at them."

Look, if you're carrying an AK-47 around town, you're not some normal Joe who had one to many and went to get your piece from your truck. You're talking about somebody who wants to kill people (packing a Glock can be self-protection, but packing an AK means something different).

Tinsley's lucky... we could have gotten up this morning and the papers could have said "Pacers Star Point Guard Shot and Killed in Attempted Car-Jacking."

I hadn't seen where they said it was an attemted car jacking, but my point is this is their version of the story. He just seems to find himself in these situations more often than most. I'm glad he's ok though.

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 05:26 PM
Exactly right. And the pattern is that Tinsley is learning from past mistakes. What happened at 8 Seconds? Crazy three-fingered scam artist tries to pick a fight with the Pacers, and they fight back. Here, he sees trouble developing and gets the heck out of Dodge. That's absolutely the right thing to do.

I give you that. Tins's behavior is improving. I truly commend him for getting away from the situation as soon as possible.

Nevertheless, he could have avoided the situation entirely by not going clubbing late at night and driving a Rolls Royce to make himself potentially more of a target.

How come Danny and Dun and Foster never seem to have these incidents? Probably related to the fact that they rarely or never go clubbing late at night. Just a hunch.

All of you who are saying Tins did nothing wrong, you are not in agreement with coach Jim O'Brien. That doesn't mean you're not right. But it does mean that those of us who believe Jamaal shares some responsibility for this latest incident aren't lone idiotic posters.

Here's what would make my year, and possibility endear Indy to Jamaal for a long time: JT holds a press conference and says the following:

"I did my very best to avoid confrontation during this last incident and am thankful for avoiding injury. I appreciate my brothers looking out for me, but it may have been best for them not to retaliate."

"I apologize to Indiana for yet another incident that could have been avoided if I had not placed myself in a potentially dangerous situation. While I believe I have the right to attend clubs and enjoy a nightlife like most human beings, for the good of the team this year, I have decided to not attend a night club for the rest of the year. Maybe next season, maybe not."

"I am also going to sell my Rolls Royce. Again, I have every right to drive it, but in order to eliminate any possible cause of incidents that embarrass the franchise, I'll avoid the appearance of flaunting my possessions to certain people who react irresponsibly to others success."

"I have my rights, but it's more important this year to focus on winning. We are making a great start, and I am committed to playing great basketball, avoiding distractions, making personal sacrifices, and working toward a deep run into the playoffs, even a championship."

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 05:32 PM
Like what you say McKey fan, but no need to sell the Rolls. Just use better judgement. Drive the Rolls to Keystone or something. Maybe even Castleton. This should not be difficult. I presume he could afford a pickup to drive to the hood.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 05:36 PM
How come Danny and Dun and Foster never seem to have these incidents? Probably related to the fact that they rarely or never go clubbing late at night.
Do you know that?


All of you who are saying Tins did nothing wrong, you are not in agreement with coach Jim O'Brien.
Simply not true. Obie said "These guys have every right to go to a nightclub. I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning." So for everybody in the thread (not you, specifically, SatanFan) who said they should be home is exactly wrong, and it's Jim O'Brien the disciplinarian who's telling you so.

The idea that Jamaal should apologize is preposterous, and completely outside of what Obie is saying.

JayRedd
12-09-2007, 05:37 PM
Yeah...he should sell his car. That's reasonable. :rolleyes:

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 05:38 PM
Like what you say McKey fan, but no need to sell the Rolls. Just use better judgement. Drive the Rolls to Keystone or something. Maybe even Castleton. This should not be difficult. I presume he could afford a pickup to drive to the hood.

When you consider it has a bunch of bullet holes in it, it's probably a great PR move. ;)

Dece
12-09-2007, 05:39 PM
It doesn't matter who, or how many people, agree with the idea that it's Jamaal's fault for being there, it's still an idiotic concept. It is not illegal to be at a club. It is not illegal to drive a Rolls Royce. It is not even illegal to shoot and kill someone who's shooting at you.

I tell you what, figure out what crime Jamaal has commit and get back to me. Until then, this is a case that exactly mirrors the rape analogy, and I think everyone can agree you don't blame the rape victim.

Trader Joe
12-09-2007, 05:40 PM
So let me get this straight because certain people carry assault rifles and target athletes Tinsley should have to sell his Rolls-Royce and stop going to clubs? We still live in America right?
Jamaal Tinsley has every right to drive whatever kind of car he wants, wherever he wants, whenever he wants. The people who were carrying a loaded assault rifle can't say the same thing about their weapon.
I drive a nice car for someone my age, I don't go looking for trouble, but I have had some issues with people in the past. Thank God nothing like this, but to say that Tinsley is the one who should have to change his lifestyle because some people are not living in reality is ridiculous IMO.
Its horrifying to me that some are basically saying that the people driving the nice cars should have to sell their cars instead of saying that the city of Indianapolis needs to crack down an area of town that has gotten progressively worse over the past ten years. This should be more of a wake up call to the city than it should be for Jamaal Tinsley.
It was a Saturday night, he didn't have a game the next day and he was out til 3 AM (which believe it or not isn't that late). He was fully within his rights, his assailants were not. And as far as I'm concerned that is the bottom line to this story.

Arcadian
12-09-2007, 05:42 PM
"I am also going to sell my Rolls Royce. Again, I have every right to drive it, but in order to eliminate any possible cause of incidents that embarrass the franchise, I'll avoid the appearance of flaunting my possessions to certain people who react irresponsibly to others success."

I saw Payton's Hummer at a Pacer game. He pissed me off.

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 05:44 PM
Yeah...he should sell his car. That's reasonable. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's reasonable.

I'm saying I would like to see Jamaal do it to show the community he wants to go over and above--beyond the call of duty--to show he cares more about the team than his own personal stuff. Kinda like playing team ball instead of going one-one-one with the opposing point guard du jour (which he's getting better at).

I'm saying it would be nice to see something done to show a little remorse for the "pattern" of behavior over time. You know, a lot of grown ups take responsibility for behavior that is not necessarily their fault. They just become bigger than all the crud and blame and make sacrifices to raise all boats.

I'm not saying it's reasonable. I'm saying it's something I'd like to see.

DisplacedKnick
12-09-2007, 05:46 PM
Perhaps he is learning

LOL - sure he is. :rolleyes:

He's learning so well that he'll go to a club about a mile or so from where a year earlier some thugs went after Stephen Jackson - WHILE TINSLEY WAS THERE.

And apparently he thought that going to a club in the same section of town late at night would result in something good happening.

The definition of inasanity, according to Einstein, is repeating the same behavior and expecting different results.

Anyway, if going back to a club in the same section of town where you were involved in an incident involving gunfire a little over a year earlier is learning, then I'd say Jamal Tinsley's learning curve is flat.

Absolutely stupid decision. And I'll be interested to know what Tinsley (or one of his company) did to inspire some folks to chase him and his entourage about 5 miles through Indianapolis and finally take some shots. That's quite an effort even for some thugs - I can't imagine they did that if Tinsley and his group ignored them while leaving.

Maybe Tinsley & co had nothing to do with escalating the situation but based on past history and the last part of this incident, I have to say that I doubt it.

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 05:46 PM
Do you know that?

"Just a hunch" is what I said in the post.

No, I don't know it. But I have a hunch I'm right.

Regarding Obie, you're right, he didn't say Jamaal was wrong. He said, "It was not a good decision. I’m sure he knows that and I’m sure there will be a lifestyle change for him . … .”

I stand corrected. It's close to "wrong" but not quite. I guess he's saying Jamaal showed bad judgement and will need to change his judgment and actions accordingly ("lifestyle change").

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 05:57 PM
I tell you what, figure out what crime Jamaal has commit and get back to me. Until then, this is a case that exactly mirrors the rape analogy, and I think everyone can agree you don't blame the rape victim.

If the rape victim walked through a dangerous area of town wearing a g-string at 3am around a gang of drunks....is that really the right decision....hmmmm.

That's basically what JT has done....maybe not quite that bad....but since you like analogies....;)

Reckoner
12-09-2007, 05:58 PM
Wow, shocking news. Thank whoever there is to thank that no one died.

Very impressed by the audio of Jermaine on the official site. Intelligent guy.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 06:00 PM
LOL - sure he is. :rolleyes:


I'm with you. Just trying trying my best to be objective and see whatever it is some of the other posters see. It's not rocket science, but I could be wrong...

JayRedd
12-09-2007, 06:01 PM
If the rape victim walked through a dangerous area of town wearing a g-string at 3am around a gang of drunks....is that really the right decision....hmmmm.

That's basically what JT has done....maybe not quite that bad....but since you like analogies....;)

Going to bar and walking around in a g-string are only similar if your name is avoidingtheclowns.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 06:02 PM
Thanks to JT, we have something to fill the gap. Tuesday's a long time to wait...

Trader Joe
12-09-2007, 06:15 PM
This thread makes me shake my head.

Oneal07
12-09-2007, 06:24 PM
Wow. . I'm speechless, been out of town all weekend. I'm glad Tins is okay!!! Stay focused homey, don't let them haters get you down

Dece
12-09-2007, 06:35 PM
Wearing only a g-string would probably get you hit with indecent exposure, that would be breaking the law.

The analogy is that she wore a mini skirt to a club. You really are ridiculous.

SamBear
12-09-2007, 06:40 PM
:-o OMG I just heard about this... :(

So sorry to hear this...

Erik
12-09-2007, 06:41 PM
Wow, shocking news. Thank whoever there is to thank that no one died.

Very impressed by the audio of Jermaine on the official site. Intelligent guy.great interview, i love how j.o. pointed out the fact that the media wasn't all over the positive with the kids charity.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 06:44 PM
Wearing only a g-string would probably get you hit with indecent exposure, that would be breaking the law.

The analogy is that she wore a mini skirt to a club. You really are ridiculous.

Nah, Rolls is definitely a g-string here. An escalade would be the mini skirt.

In any event, if she already got raped twice wearing that mini-skirt, she's a fool to come back. The world is sooo unfair!

:-p

Anthem
12-09-2007, 07:02 PM
Absolutely stupid decision.
Well that's certainly true. I'm not saying it wasn't stupid (it absolutely was). But there's a difference between a bad/stupid decision and doing something morally/legally wrong.

If this thread was just a matter of "well that was stupid" then I wouldn't bother to post, because I wouldn't disagree. But the idea that Tinsley did something morally wrong, and that he owes the city an apology in some way, is simply expletive deleted.

It takes an unbelievable level of some unnamed but not complimentary attribute for posters to come on here and say that Tinsley should:
- sell his car
- promise never to go out past 1am
- promise never to go to clubs
- never be in places that serve alcohol

Each one of these things has been said in this thread (not by you, Rim) and each one of them is, as I said earlier, pure expletive deleted.

Doug
12-09-2007, 07:14 PM
Nightclub, shots fired.
Pacers in the news again.
Some things never change.

Doug
12-09-2007, 07:16 PM
One more incident,
And Tinsley's card will be full!
Free attorney fee!

able
12-09-2007, 07:23 PM
Well in the light of responsible behaviour and setting good examples, all future PD parties will end at 11 PM instead of 4 Am at Perkins.

I agree with Anthem, am very happy Jamaal is ok, sad to hear Joe got hurt, and hope that the police will catch the culprits quickly.

Hard to imagine that carrying an AK47 (or M16) is more acceptable then driving a rolls royce, glad they see that differently here, and I hope that hey see it differently where Regiie lives nowadays.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 07:36 PM
Nightclub, shots are fired.
Pacers in the news again.
Some things never change.
Fixed.

Remember, in Indiana "fired" is a one-syllable word.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 07:45 PM
A new amendment for Pacer safety:

TITLE 140 BUREAU OF MOTOR VEHICLES
ARTICLE 11. SAFETY RESPONSIBILITY DIVISION
Rule 11. Rolls Royce Safety Procedure
140 IAC 11-1-1 West 38th Street Safety Ban For Luxury automobiles driven by the Indiana Pacers
(a) At no time between the hours of 11:00PM and 5:00AM seven days a week, shall an Indiana Pacer operate a motor vehicle with a value in excess of $100,000, including a Rolls Royce, in the vicinity of I465, Lafayette Road and 38th Street with the intent of visiting establishments serving alcoholic beverages.
(b) Violation: Cancellation of contract at the descretion of TPTB or upon referendum on PD.

Hoop
12-09-2007, 07:54 PM
Well that's certainly true. I'm not saying it wasn't stupid (it absolutely was). But there's a difference between a bad/stupid decision and doing something morally/legally wrong.

If this thread was just a matter of "well that was stupid" then I wouldn't bother to post, because I wouldn't disagree. But the idea that Tinsley did something morally wrong, and that he owes the city an apology in some way, is simply expletive deleted.

It takes an unbelievable level of some unnamed but not complimentary attribute for posters to come on here and say that Tinsley should:
- sell his car
- promise never to go out past 1am
- promise never to go to clubs
- never be in places that serve alcohol

Each one of these things has been said in this thread (not by you, Rim) and each one of them is, as I said earlier, pure expletive deleted.
Thank You!

Since86
12-09-2007, 07:57 PM
Shooting back is not a crime. His life was being placed in danger, and he was responding accordingly. Even if he had shot and killed the guy with the AK, he would not be going to jail.

I really hope you're not an attorney because I bet you have some pretty upset clients.

You cannot chase someone down and shoot back at them. You can most certainly be arrested and prosecuted for numerous crimes doing that.

If someone breaks into your house to rob you, and you shoot at them while they're a threat to your home/safety you're good. If you shoot them in the back while they're running away but still in your house, it's a crime.

With that said, thank God no one was seriously hurt. While I can't point too much of a finger at him, because I go out all the time and never back by 3 when I do, I can shake my head at yet another incident.

If this was a first time thing, it would be different, but it's the third in a little over a year. Even though it seems like it wasn't his fault it just casts more bad PR over him and the organization. For every one bad incident you have to have multiple good ones reported to overcome it unfortunately. Dude needs to look at his decision making. Does he have the right to go out to clubs? Yes he most certainly does, but it doesn't mean it's a good decision. Should he stop? No he shouldn't.

Personally I don't know why he didn't call the police and keep them on the phone while driving to meet a squad car. They would most definately respond to that situation, especially when it's dealing with someone as high profile as him in the city.

The reoccuring theme is the most troubling part, inregards to Tins.

pianoman
12-09-2007, 08:01 PM
Should there be a punishment?

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 08:04 PM
- sell his car
nah, keep it

- promise never to go out past 1am
nah, stay out all night

- promise never to go to clubs
never go to clubs on 38th street is only a wise suggestion. It's his choice and his life to lose.

- never be in places that serve alcohol
drink all you want.

Shade
12-09-2007, 08:05 PM
AOL's headline says "Shots Fired At NBA Star."

In light of the Shaun Taylor tragedy, this is getting a lot of national media attention.

Trader Joe
12-09-2007, 08:07 PM
Should there be a punishment?

I'd looooove to hear what you would possibly punish Tinsley for...There simply isn't anything there.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 08:15 PM
Should there be a punishment?

No. Tinsley did nothing to warrant punishment. That would be like punishing your kid for flunking a test....for the third time.

DisplacedKnick
12-09-2007, 08:16 PM
Well that's certainly true. I'm not saying it wasn't stupid (it absolutely was). But there's a difference between a bad/stupid decision and doing something morally/legally wrong.

If this thread was just a matter of "well that was stupid" then I wouldn't bother to post, because I wouldn't disagree. But the idea that Tinsley did something morally wrong, and that he owes the city an apology in some way, is simply expletive deleted.

It takes an unbelievable level of some unnamed but not complimentary attribute for posters to come on here and say that Tinsley should:
- sell his car
- promise never to go out past 1am
- promise never to go to clubs
- never be in places that serve alcohol

Each one of these things has been said in this thread (not by you, Rim) and each one of them is, as I said earlier, pure expletive deleted.

Nope - nothing immoral or illegal -though I wouldn't want to be the guys who took off from the hotel after the thugs, guns a-blazin'. Can't imagine IPD will be too happy with that. There've been enough stray bullet deaths in Indy.

Just dumb. I don't know how to put it any other way.

Let's see - you go to court in about a month to face charges related to a fight in a bar. It's in your interest to do everything you can to stay out of trouble. So you go back to a bar in the same general area as a bar you were involved in an incident at a year ago? A bar that pretty much anyone within 60 miles of the Indy metro area recognizes isn't in the best part of town?

Dumb. I can't imagine Larry Bird did anything but bang his head against a wall when he heard this. And no, I don't think the Pacers should suspend/fine or much of anything w/ Tinsley. But they do have to decide whether he should stay on the team. What's it take for Jamal to learn something? Does HE have to be the one getting shot?

Sorry to keep going on about it but I just can't get past the base stupidity. Yeesh. As we said a year ago, there are places in Indy where celebs can go and never be bothered. W 38th St isn't one of them - no more now than last year.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 08:23 PM
Sorry to keep going on about it but I just can't get past the base stupidity. Yeesh. As we said a year ago, there are places in Indy where celebs can go and never be bothered. W 38th St isn't one of them - no more now than last year.
I don't disagree. I probably would have come on here and ripped Tinsley a new one if I hadn't been so shocked at the first few pages of this thread... especially as people were talking about curfews before it was even clear that Tinsley was involved beyond owning the cars.

Bball
12-09-2007, 08:32 PM
Let's see if I have this straight:

Tinsley was ministering in the wee hours to ner'dowells at a nightclub on West 38th St. He was getting sleepy, and a little full, after drinking several orange juices. Saving souls is tough work and makes a man thirsty.

So, Tinsley and his elves gather items that had been collected for Toys for Tots that he would selfessly be delivering at the crack of dawn and then headed for their cars (after annointing the room before departure).

Once outside, a group of evil, awful, terrible, dirty, mean and spiteful men laid in wait for Tinsley and his elves. Tinsley's men said a prayer for these men and then left while Tinsley offered words of encouragement for the men in hopes that they could turn their lives around.

The men, either misunderstanding or not caring to her Tinsley's sermon, followed Tinsley.

Mistakenly, Tinsley assumed his sermon had made an impression and that the men were following because they were moved. Tinsley stopped after removing some items from a baggie in his pocket. This was his remaining annointing oil (what... you thought it was something else??).

Unfortunately, the men were not smitten with Tinsley's words and message of love and someone opened fire. Certainly the shooting started with the evil men and not any of Tinsley or his followers. That is non-debatable.

After reporting this incident to the proper authorities, Tinsley checked the toys for bullet holes and prepared them to deliver to homeless children a few short hours later, declaring sleep would have to wait.

-Bball

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 08:36 PM
It takes an unbelievable level of some unnamed but not complimentary attribute for posters to come on here and say that Tinsley should:
- sell his car

- promise never to go to clubs


Each one of these things has been said in this thread (not by you, Rim) and each one of them is, as I said earlier, pure expletive deleted.

I wish you would reread my posts and try to represent me correctly. (I did the same when you corrected me on the exact quote from JOB.)

I never said Tinsley was obligated or "should" do those things.

Kstat
12-09-2007, 08:44 PM
Last i checked, there wasn't a law against mere stupidity. Tinsley has no reason to be punished.

That said, it doesn't change the fact that it was stupidity and he should know better.

If nothing else, the fact one of his boys could have gotten killed should be punishment enough for him, but you never know.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 08:49 PM
I wish you would reread my posts and try to represent me correctly. (I did the same when you corrected me on the exact quote from JOB.)

I never said Tinsley was obligated or "should" do those things.
I stand corrected. You never said he was "obligated" to do those things.

I think we may just have different definitions of "should" but I respect your point.

Major Cold
12-09-2007, 09:14 PM
pacers.com has video of bird, OB, and JO.

JayRedd
12-09-2007, 09:30 PM
Here's ESPN's take:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3147811

Any car people know what he was driving?

The only video I've seen is this one, so it's tough to tell, but is that a Phantom?

Trader Joe
12-09-2007, 09:33 PM
Any car people know what he was driving?

The only video I've seen is this one, so it's tough to tell, but is that a Phantom?

Yes, it is a Phantom.

Evan_The_Dude
12-09-2007, 09:36 PM
Phantom http://www.supercars.dk/images/products/rolls-royce-phantom.jpg

Evan_The_Dude
12-09-2007, 09:39 PM
If there's any punishment from this (which I don't think there should be), Tinsley should at the most get fined. A suspension would be going way overboard. Especially seeing that it looks like he was trying to use good judgment and get out of the trouble he saw coming.

indygeezer
12-09-2007, 09:42 PM
Thousands of people go clubbing in Indy. Hundreds of them are out until 3:30 AM. Some are involved in confrontations...a few may be involved in altercations. A couple escalate to real trouble.

I wonder how many of them are involved in 3 real trouble events in a 12 month period???????????






Being fired upon makes you a victim...the person who chased down the attacker vehicle is no longer a victim he has become the aggressor and licensed or not has no right to fire upon the fleeing vehicle. We've buried a lot of bystanders this year....this is one way we create them.

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 09:52 PM
I stand corrected. You never said he was "obligated" to do those things.

I think we may just have different definitions of "should" but I respect your point.

:tip:

pianoman
12-09-2007, 10:01 PM
I meant a fine no suspensions.
He knew he shouldn't be out that late.

AesopRockOn
12-09-2007, 10:15 PM
A lot of nice words from JO. He really told those reporters what's what. Sounds like Jamaal was really shaken up and OB feels like he's going to change his life or lifestyle at least. I'm sure he's going to catch a ton of stuff from Bird regardless so he doesn't need any more crap from the fans. Like #7 said, support our brother.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 10:17 PM
He knew he shouldn't be out that late.
That's not what Obie said. Once again:

"These guys have every right to go to a nightclub. I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning."

RamBo_Lamar
12-09-2007, 10:24 PM
I would have hoped after Tins's previous run-in with Dino & Fingers, that he
would have come to the realization that there are some real morons running
around late-night at some of these "clubs".

There are plenty of armed and dangerous criminals running around town
who would (and do) take pride in how they "busted a cap in some MF's
azz". I am though somewhat surprised these particular morons were brazen
enough to chase them all the way, and open fire right down town like they
did. Guess they didn't want to easily give up an opportunity to bag such a
high-profile "trophy".

Now that his Rolls has gotten shot up, and Joe Quatato took a couple hits
that will probably result in permanent scarring, I hope Tins will finally wise
up and stop tempting fate. It is just very very fortunate nobody was more
seriously injured, or killed.

C'mon Tins.....playing with those "ho's" ain't worth all that trouble!

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 10:44 PM
That's not what Obie said. Once again:

"These guys have every right to go to a nightclub. I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning."

Obie is diplomatic. He also said: "As a professional athlete, where we’re in an environment nationally that has seen professional athletes targeted, it was not a good decision and that’s basically it."

So what exactly (in JOb's opinion) was poor about Jamaal's decision?

Going to a nightclub...at 3am...in the hood...with his brothers...with his Rolls...which one of these elements is the problem?...not sure what JOb's thinking...lol.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 10:52 PM
So what exactly (in JOb's opinion) was poor about Jamaal's decision?

Going to a nightclub...at 3am...in the hood...with his brothers...with his Rolls...which one of these elements is the problem?...not sure what JOb's thinking...lol.
The problem was location, not time. Seems pretty clear from the quote.

"in the hood" bothered Obie. "3am" did not.

McKeyFan
12-09-2007, 10:55 PM
The problem was location, not time. Seems pretty clear from the quote.

"in the hood" bothered Obie. "3am" did not.

I wonder if Jamaal would have gotten shot at if he attended that Gospel Brunch at the Club 9?

Just asking.

;)

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 10:57 PM
The problem was location, not time. Seems pretty clear from the quote.

"in the hood" bothered Obie. "3am" did not.

So, does that mean Obie does not want Jamaal to go to Lafayette Square mall? No Olive Garden either? Best Buy off limits?

I presume it's a bit more than location. JMO

If there's more to it, what could it be?

mike_D
12-09-2007, 11:09 PM
It doesn't matter who, or how many people, agree with the idea that it's Jamaal's fault for being there, it's still an idiotic concept. It is not illegal to be at a club. It is not illegal to drive a Rolls Royce. It is not even illegal to shoot and kill someone who's shooting at you.

I tell you what, figure out what crime Jamaal has commit and get back to me. Until then, this is a case that exactly mirrors the rape analogy, and I think everyone can agree you don't blame the rape victim.


Who said it was illegal for him to be there? It also looks as if Jamal Tinsley is a victim here.All I'm saying is he has to make smarter decisions with who he is hanging out with and where he goes. That might mean he has to sacrifice some things.That happens when you become a celebrity, you can't do the same things as a celebrity as you can when your just some average Joe.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-09-2007, 11:19 PM
There's a reason establishments stay open until 3 o'clock in the morning and not just because Jamaal Tinsley might show up.

Is Jamaal supposed to hang out only where you guys hang out? Castleton? I wouldn't be caught dead hanging out in Castleton. That's where apartment dwellers and older yuppies hang out. I'm sure a bunch of young black males with tons of money would feel welcome at the Beer Sellar or the Fox and Hound. Maybe he should go to Lulu's and pick up some "cougars" or better yet Champs and get his groove on to the ultra-lite coverband sounds of Zannadoo. Let's be realistic. Jamaal Tinsley hangs out where he feel comfortable.

Cloud 9 isn't some ghetto strip club with crackheads, ho's and pimps. It's actually a bar & grill. D.J. Paul Bunyun ( former Conseco Fieldhouse D.J.) frequently performs there. They offer private rooms for people just like Jamaal, extensive premium spirit's, a dance floor & valet parking.

Intake's quick review....."An upscale grill and dance club catering to the R&B set. Dress to impress and reserve a VIP section for your friends."

Look at how "ghetto" these Cloud 9 patrons look....


http://www.indy.com/photos/standard/2007/03/12989.jpg

Oh my God! Is that Jamie Foxx?
http://www.indy.com/photos/standard/2007/03/12990.jpg

Thugs...
http://www.indy.com/photos/standard/2007/03/12979.jpg

Here comes trouble....
http://www.indy.com/photos/standard/2007/03/12984.jpg

What was Jamaal thinking? Indianapolis wont stand for these kind of ruffians.
http://www.indy.com/photos/standard/2007/03/12986.jpg

Not Radio One's D.J. Chino
http://www.indy.com/photos/standard/2007/01/14250.jpg

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 11:23 PM
There's a reason establishments stay open until 3 o'clock in the morning and not just because Jamaal Tinsley might show up.


Help me understand. Why did JOb say Tinsley made a poor decision?

That looks like a fine establishment.

FlavaDave
12-09-2007, 11:25 PM
Awesome pictures.



Bravo.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 11:29 PM
So, does that mean Obie does not want Jamaal to go to Lafayette Square mall? No Olive Garden either? Best Buy off limits?

I presume it's a bit more than location. JMO

If there's more to it, what could it be?
:laugh: Oh, so clever. Socrates would be proud.

Again, I'd love to hear another way to take "I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning." If you think that means Obie thinks there should be a curfew but is afraid to come out and say it, then by all means lets hear your case. But pretty much anybody else would take that as "It's ok to be out at 4am, but don't be THERE at 4am."

What about this is complicated?

Dr. Goldfoot
12-09-2007, 11:33 PM
Why did JOb say Tinsley made a poor decision?



Because in this situation he's a mouthpiece for the organization. JOB knows that young single dudes go out on Saturday night and stay out late. I'm neither young nor single and I do when I can talk Grandma & Grandpa into watching the kids.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 11:35 PM
:laugh: Oh, so clever. Socrates would be proud.

Again, I'd love to hear another way to take "I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning." If you think that means Obie thinks there should be a curfew but is afraid to come out and say it, then by all means lets hear your case. But pretty much anybody else would take that as "It's ok to be out at 4am, but don't be THERE at 4am."

What about this is complicated?

I am not suggesting time...or any other factor is a problem.

I am just asking the question. I honestly want to know if JOb would have a problem with Jamaal going to someplace like Best Buy on West 38th street...in precisely the same general vicinity. You said location was why JOb said Tins made a poor decision. I said it was more than that and wanted to know what that "more" could be because I suspect JOb would NOT have a problem with Tins going to Best Buy on West 38th.

JOb must either be wrong, or its more than location that's the problem.

Raoul Duke
12-09-2007, 11:37 PM
There's a reason establishments stay open until 3 o'clock in the morning and not just because Jamaal Tinsley might show up.

Is Jamaal supposed to hang out only where you guys hang out? Castleton? I wouldn't be caught dead hanging out in Castleton. That's where apartment dwellers and older yuppies hang out. I'm sure a bunch of young black males with tons of money would feel welcome at the Beer Sellar or the Fox and Hound. Maybe he should go to Lulu's and pick up some "cougars" or better yet Champs and get his groove on to the ultra-lite coverband sounds of Zannadoo. Let's be realistic. Jamaal Tinsley hangs out where he feel comfortable.

Cloud 9 isn't some ghetto strip club with crackheads, ho's and pimps. It's actually a bar & grill. D.J. Paul Bunyun ( former Conseco Fieldhouse D.J.) frequently performs there. They offer private rooms for people just like Jamaal, extensive premium spirit's, a dance floor & valet parking.

Intake's quick review....."An upscale grill and dance club catering to the R&B set. Dress to impress and reserve a VIP section for your friends."



LOL I love the description of Castleton. You obviously know where to go there. Great post.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-09-2007, 11:42 PM
What would you suggest? Kip's, BW3's, The Music Mill, Joe's Grill in that strip mall by Skyline Chili? There's nowhere remotely "cool" to hang out in Castleton. The bar @ Logan's roadhouse?


Also lost in all the Jamaal is stoopid and hangs out in the ghetto rhetoric, what has become of this city? People can't hang out anywhere with facing danger. I recently got a flier in my mailbox from our neighborhood association president about a recent string of break in's in my neighborhood ( Devonshire around 71st & Shadeland). I live in a fairly decent area and I have to watch my back at home. Now people are shootin' up Rolls Royce's in one of the more expensive hotels in town? WTF?

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 11:43 PM
What would you suggest? Kip's, BW3's, The Music Mill, Joe's Grill in that strip mall by Skyline Chili? There's nowhere remotely "cool" to hang out in Castleton. The bar @ Logan's roadhouse?
MCL Cafeteria. Gots the babes.

Lord Helmet
12-09-2007, 11:43 PM
WTHR Ch13 is hammering Tinsley and the Pacers right now......

In the past I've been fine with it, but damn, they are making it out like everything was Tinsley's fault and all the Pacers are evil.

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 11:44 PM
Because in this situation he's a mouthpiece for the organization. JOB knows that young single dudes go out on Saturday night and stay out late. I'm neither young nor single and I do when I can talk Grandma & Grandpa into watching the kids.

Let's get to the bottom of this. Why would the Pacers organization want its mouthpiece to say JT made a poor decision by going to a fine establishment like that?

Aw Heck
12-09-2007, 11:45 PM
WTHR Ch13 is hammering Tinsley and the Pacers right now......

In the past I've been fine with it, but damn, they are making it out like everything was Tinsley's fault and all the Pacers are evil.
Don't let little things like "facts" and "the truth" get in the way of a good story...

BlueNGold
12-09-2007, 11:47 PM
WTHR Ch13 is hammering Tinsley and the Pacers right now......

In the past I've been fine with it, but damn, they are making it out like everything was Tinsley's fault and all the Pacers are evil.

Kravitz has to be pretty thankful. He just got another vacation day. It's like he's on the Pacer payroll...

Anthem
12-09-2007, 11:48 PM
I am not suggesting time...or any other factor is a problem.
Great gravy, man! Of course you are! Let's run it one post at a time (this is what I should have done in the census thread before I blacklisted it).


He [Tinsley] knew he shouldn't be out that late.
Ok, this is clearly talking about time, right? And so I respond:


That's not what Obie said. Once again:

"These guys have every right to go to a nightclub. I have a right, everybody here can be out till 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning."
So pianoman and I are having a discussion about how late Tinsley is out. He posits that time is the issue, I posit that if time was the issue, Obie wouldn't have gone out of his way to say that time wasn't the issue. Not rocket surgery. Now you join the discussion, and (shock of all shocks) disagree with me:


Obie is diplomatic. He also said: "As a professional athlete, where we’re in an environment nationally that has seen professional athletes targeted, it was not a good decision and that’s basically it."
So please explain to me exactly what you mean by "Obie is diplomatic." If you're saying that Obie doesn't in fact believe that it's ok to be out that late, but that he's lying publicly as some kind of spin or face-saving gesture, then I'd be glad to hear your explanation.

If that's not what you mean, then why don't you say what you mean?

Lord Helmet
12-09-2007, 11:48 PM
Don't let little things like "facts" and "the truth" get in the way of a good story...
From their coverage you'd think Tinsley went to a club and starting firing shots after he left, then you'd also think Tinsley hates kids.

Lord Helmet
12-09-2007, 11:49 PM
Kravitz has to be pretty thankful. He just got another vacation day. It's like he's on the Pacer payroll...
Oh no.........:(

Anthem
12-09-2007, 11:49 PM
MCL Cafeteria. Gots the babes.
Maybe if you're eighty. :flirt:

Dr. Goldfoot
12-09-2007, 11:51 PM
Let's get to the bottom of this. Why would the Pacers organization want its mouthpiece to say JT made a poor decision by going to a fine establishment like that?

He's not hammering him. He also said Jamaal has every right to be out that late. He was playing to both sides. Just like any good salesman would. Right now JOB is a salesman for the Pacer's organization. He backed the player and his right to do what he wants and he also played to the more conservative fan by saying maybe it wasn't the best decision to be out that late in a predominately black area of town that most of you fans are afraid of and haven't visited ever but drive your fancy cars thru on your way to and from work or to the track every May.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 11:53 PM
Let's get to the bottom of this. Why would the Pacers organization want its mouthpiece to say JT made a poor decision by going to a fine establishment like that?
It's not the restaurant, it's the area of town.

Anthem
12-09-2007, 11:54 PM
He's not hammering him. He also said Jamaal has every right to be out that late. He was playing to both sides. Just like any good salesman would. Right now JOB is a salesman for the Pacer's organization. He backed the player and his right to do what he wants and he also played to the more conservative fan by saying maybe it wasn't the best decision to be out that late in a predominately black area of town that most of you fans are afraid of and haven't visited ever but drive your fancy cars thru on your way to and from work or to the track every May.
Well put.

benjaminooo
12-10-2007, 12:04 AM
http://www.indy.com/venues/show/8955

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 12:09 AM
Very good work.

However, I said Obie was being diplomatic because from his statement he had to be holding back something. Yes, I do think it had something to do with place and/or time, but in the spirit of determining what JOb *really* meant, NO I am not suggesting anything at all. That's precisely the question I am ASKING.

So, back to my question. What beyond location is his problem? Or does he want to ban Tinsley from West 38th street?

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 12:12 AM
It's not the restaurant, it's the area of town.

So, no Best Buy either on Monday at noon?

Dr. Goldfoot
12-10-2007, 12:14 AM
Hey Ben Woo, quit copying and pasting my post all over the Star board. When I want to impart knowledge on those people I'll copy and paste my own damn ****. Seriously.

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 12:14 AM
He's not hammering him. He also said Jamaal has every right to be out that late. He was playing to both sides. Just like any good salesman would. Right now JOB is a salesman for the Pacer's organization. He backed the player and his right to do what he wants and he also played to the more conservative fan by saying maybe it wasn't the best decision to be out that late in a predominately black area of town that most of you fans are afraid of and haven't visited ever but drive your fancy cars thru on your way to and from work or to the track every May.

So, the poor decision comment really had no substance at all and was only meant to appease the conservative fans?

Got it. Good post in general.

McKeyFan
12-10-2007, 12:21 AM
Let's get to the bottom of this. Why would the Pacers organization want its mouthpiece to say JT made a poor decision by going to a fine establishment like that?

Here's my take: Obie is saying he and JT and everyone else has the "right" to stay out late, but he is also saying that leadership and representation of the franchise yada yada means it was poor judgment (thus a bad decision) to stay out late.

So, he's saying, just because you have the right, technically, doesn't mean it's a good idea. I have the right to dress like a woman and picket Toys for Tots. Doesn't make it a good idea.

I'm not saying my take is spot on, but it's the interpretation that makes the most sense to me.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-10-2007, 12:21 AM
No more or less merit than his comment about Mel Mel having every right to be out as late as he wants. He said both. He's a fence-rider. We now know this much.


Also, I'm only kidding Ben. But seriously.

Anthem
12-10-2007, 12:26 AM
You know who really loses in all of this? Club 9. You know this is going to cost them business... a LOT of business. Would YOU go to a "high-end" place that had dudes with AKs in the parking lot, waiting to jack your car?

I mean, people talked about the Rolls but I can't imagine it was the only nice car in the parking lot. I'd bet there were more Rolls than Civics in the lot, even without Tinsley.

Wouldn't you think there would be some security?

Naptown_Seth
12-10-2007, 12:30 AM
As a downtown resident what shocks me the most about this story is that there is someone who was willing to fire his .223 in front of the Conrad. That's the busiest section of all of downtown, not to mention being a flipping 5 star hotel. The top floors are $1m+ condos. That's a lot of money to have an assault rifle shootout at your front door.

Plus you have conventions, maybe some guys from out of town were just at Steak n Shake after a night at Slippery or Chammps or Rock Bottom and are walking to the Hilton Garden or whatever. Nice story they have to take back home with them.

Tins may have attracted the attention of these thugs, but the fact that they were willing to make that final choice in the heart of downtown, just blocks from the city-county building and tons of cops, suggests something a lot more dangerous than stupid Dino and Fingers.

Tins needs to learn a lesson about the world around him, that's for sure. Obviously Rick wasn't the only coach that couldn't "keep him in line".


PS - I am 100% behind his brother's reaction to the shooting. Someone shoots at my family and I have the means to respond I damn sure will. It would have been nice if he'd hit their tires, wrecked them and sent them to the Wishard lockup or worse. Seriously.


You know who really loses in all of this? Club 9. You know this is going to cost them business... a LOT of business. Would YOU go to a "high-end" place that had dudes with AKs in the parking lot, waiting to jack your car?

I mean, people talked about the Rolls but I can't imagine it was the only nice car in the parking lot. I'd bet there were more Rolls than Civics in the lot, even without Tinsley.

Wouldn't you think there would be some security?
Again, the Conrad has valets and doormen at the front door 24/7 and is extremely well lit. It's not like they started shooting at C9 after all. It's amazing that no Conrad staff were injured. A shooting like this in that location is about as bold as that escape from the bank in Heat, at least by Indy standards. The kids killed in Carmel about 5 years ago surprised me less.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-10-2007, 12:35 AM
It's interesting how many more people support or at least are willing to wait out the details when a player is playing well.

5.3 RPG
9.9 APG
2.5 SPG
18.0 in the last 10

.375 3pt FG in December

Naptown_Seth
12-10-2007, 12:51 AM
Well in the light of responsible behaviour and setting good examples, all future PD parties will end at 11 PM instead of 4 Am at Perkins.

I agree with Anthem, am very happy Jamaal is ok, sad to hear Joe got hurt, and hope that the police will catch the culprits quickly.

Hard to imagine that carrying an AK47 (or M16) is more acceptable then driving a rolls royce, glad they see that differently here, and I hope that hey see it differently where Regiie lives nowadays.
:ding:
FTW

Clearly we are a bunch of thugtastic delinquent MF'ers. Luckily none of us had a nice enough ride to be followed home from Perkins, or maybe gangsters don't know what parts of town feature nice rides and bank on the off chance that someone will bring one to them and then let them follow them back to the nice part of town they didn't know about.


I mean for F's sake, at any given time you could find cars just as nice in front of the Conrad or around the corner at St Elmos/Cantebury. Why not just AK up the valets and jack one of those instead? And if they did would you blame the F1 team or the rock star or the CEO that owned the car for having it and letting it be valeted? Gee, what a fun city to live in.

Look, Indy's a podunk town. But when we sacrifice on the fine arts, fine dining and massive level of cultural diversity we are supposed to get something back in return. Namely a city where AK attacks NEVER happen. Not sometimes. Not even on race day or after a Colts Super Bowl win.

If Brizzi wants to impress me with his "let's fingerprint the pot bag" crap then he better yank these MF'ers off MY streets ASAP. I don't need my wife killed on the way home from work because they wanted to own an SUV for the day.

Dr. Goldfoot
12-10-2007, 12:56 AM
my wife

A man with 4000 posts and a wife? Unpossible.

avoidingtheclowns
12-10-2007, 01:02 AM
Going to bar and walking around in a g-string are only similar if your name is avoidingtheclowns.
i call that a "wednesday"

Naptown_Seth
12-10-2007, 01:15 AM
A man with 4000 posts and a life? Unpossible.
Fixed. ;)

Now kids...that would wreck my posting output. :D

underwave
12-10-2007, 01:21 AM
So let me get this straight because certain people carry assault rifles and target athletes Tinsley should have to sell his Rolls-Royce and stop going to clubs? We still live in America right?
Jamaal Tinsley has every right to drive whatever kind of car he wants, wherever he wants, whenever he wants. The people who were carrying a loaded assault rifle can't say the same thing about their weapon.
I drive a nice car for someone my age, I don't go looking for trouble, but I have had some issues with people in the past. Thank God nothing like this, but to say that Tinsley is the one who should have to change his lifestyle because some people are not living in reality is ridiculous IMO.
Its horrifying to me that some are basically saying that the people driving the nice cars should have to sell their cars instead of saying that the city of Indianapolis needs to crack down an area of town that has gotten progressively worse over the past ten years. This should be more of a wake up call to the city than it should be for Jamaal Tinsley.
It was a Saturday night, he didn't have a game the next day and he was out til 3 AM (which believe it or not isn't that late). He was fully within his rights, his assailants were not. And as far as I'm concerned that is the bottom line to this story.

well. said! couldn't agree more.

Hicks
12-10-2007, 01:26 AM
I suspect there could be details of this whole thing covering up something that would make JT look very bad, but that's just my gut talking based on speculation discussing this with friends today.

THAT ASIDE, looking at it at face value with what's reported, I don't really fault Tinsley much at all. I think it's POSSIBLY somewhat asking for it to be someone like him in that area of the town, but I was given a "tour" today by Gnome and it wasn't that bad. Seeing the pictures from Dr. Goldfoot pretty well cements it with me that Tinsley wasn't exactly hanging in some ****hole looking for trouble.

I don't believe any punishment should be considered, and would only expect Bird to suggest he be yet more careful in avoiding situations. Beyond that you wish for a speedy recovery for Joe, be thankful no one else was hurt, and continue to play ball.

Bball
12-10-2007, 02:07 AM
I suspect there could be details of this whole thing covering up something that would make JT look very bad, but that's just my gut talking based on speculation discussing this with friends today.

THAT ASIDE, looking at it at face value with what's reported, I don't really fault Tinsley much at all. I think it's POSSIBLY somewhat asking for it to be someone like him in that area of the town, but I was given a "tour" today by Gnome and it wasn't that bad. Seeing the pictures from Dr. Goldfoot pretty well cements it with me that Tinsley wasn't exactly hanging in some ****hole looking for trouble.

I don't believe any punishment should be considered, and would only expect Bird to suggest he be yet more careful in avoiding situations. Beyond that you wish for a speedy recovery for Joe, be thankful no one else was hurt, and continue to play ball.

Those are pretty much my thoughts. Some things don't really add up exactly so I suspect there's more to the story that we've yet to hear. Followed? A shootout at the Conrad??? Taken at face value, Tinsley's role in this doesn't seem that bad. But when taken with Tinsley's history of violent club incidents in his past and the oddness of some of this, then there are things that suggest face value might not be the final story. But it could be... sometimes weird things happen.

In any case, I'd be careful of hitching my credibility up to the "I support Jamaal, he was clearly wronged " wagon. ...Best to take what we've heard so far with a grain of salt and just wait and see.

I can't imagine the Conrad doesn't have video... plus does Indy PD have a security cam in that area?

-Bball

Peck
12-10-2007, 02:26 AM
So I flip on my net and see this headline.

Being in Florida I haven't seen a lot of Pacer news on tv.

Well, as to the incident itself, I have no idea. At face value Jamaal looks in the clear as far as being responsible. However I think I'll wait to get all of the facts before I decide that for sure.

Other than that though I new when I read this thread that the usual suspects would be lined up in thier hard nosed opinions.

You would have "stupid thug, we need to get him off of this team as soon as we can" only to be countered by "Pro Ball players are people and have every right to be whenever, wherever".

Needless to say I wasn't dissapointed.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes, Jamaal has every right in the world to be there. No, it doesn't look like he was out to cause trouble. Yes, he did the right thing by leaving.

However, it is also true that this isn't the first or now even second incident with Jamaal and trouble at clubs.

No matter what, no matter who is right who is wrong or even if there is anything wrong this is just one more thing the Pacers didn't need.

ABADays
12-10-2007, 03:42 AM
Gee - I'm in India and I go online to check out to see how the Colts did and once again Tinsley is jumping out of the headlines.

I don't have time right now to go through the whole thread but I've read enough of the "well at least he didn't start it" posts. He NEVER does start it does he? He's always the victim - yet, he hasn't even gone to trial for the last one and we can add another one to the tally. No matter how many times I hope (note: never think) he is going to change - it's not gonna happen. He has driven the Pacer name through the mud enough now.

Will Galen
12-10-2007, 04:13 AM
Tins needs to have his own club like JO.

Raoul Duke
12-10-2007, 06:12 AM
What would you suggest? Kip's, BW3's, The Music Mill, Joe's Grill in that strip mall by Skyline Chili? There's nowhere remotely "cool" to hang out in Castleton. The bar @ Logan's roadhouse?


Also lost in all the Jamaal is stoopid and hangs out in the ghetto rhetoric, what has become of this city? People can't hang out anywhere with facing danger. I recently got a flier in my mailbox from our neighborhood association president about a recent string of break in's in my neighborhood ( Devonshire around 71st & Shadeland). I live in a fairly decent area and I have to watch my back at home. Now people are shootin' up Rolls Royce's in one of the more expensive hotels in town? WTF?

No I was serious. I live by Castleton and I go to those places a lot. So do a lot of other people. You can see Pacers and Colts at that Champps all the time

DisplacedKnick
12-10-2007, 06:55 AM
I suspect there could be details of this whole thing covering up something that would make JT look very bad, but that's just my gut talking based on speculation discussing this with friends today.


I agree. Granted, we don't KNOW anything but I suspect this will be another case where it would be better for JT, at least from a PR point of view, if they don't find the people who shot at them.

For those not familiar with Indy, the Conrad and W 38th St aren't right next to each other. In fact, they aren't close to the same section of town. I haven't mapquested it but those guys had to chase JT at least 5 miles through city streets into an upscale part of town to take a shot. That's going above and beyond.

Maybe they ran into some complete, 100% psycho's but it sure seems to me like someone in Tinsley's group said or did something to provide a lot of inspiration.

As for where he could have gone, I don't know Cloud 9 but I used to see Pacers all the time at Champs Americana at Keystone. Slip someone a hundred and nobody gets within 20 feet of your table unless you want them to. They valet park your car, etc. Used to see Dale Davis, Reggie, God's best friend, Heywoode & others there quite a bit. There are other places like that in town.

Does Tinsley have the right to go wherever he wants whenever he wants? Sure. But that's only if he wants to ignore the reality of being a pro athlete.

indygeezer
12-10-2007, 08:11 AM
Look, taken at face value JT would get a pass on this one. Similar incident could happen to any of us. BUT.....how many of us would have 3 violent incidents in our entire lives let alone 3 in one year??

Sorry, but that's a pattern...and Anthem as much as I respect you and your opinions this becomes, Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.....get involved a third time and it's time for some buttkickin'.

owl
12-10-2007, 08:40 AM
I keep hoping Jamal will wise up. Maybe this one will finally do the trick. He has to be smarter
about what he does. This incident almost cost Joey Q his life and luckily no one WAS killed.
I doubt the people they were dealing with were your run of the mill hoodlum. These are some bad people and need to be put away for a LONG time.

Speed
12-10-2007, 08:51 AM
I'll be concise in weighing in and echo what some have said, to me, it's not even just a Pacers issue at this point. It should be personal for Tinsley, someone could really get killed if he keeps putting himself in these situations. It easily could've happened Saturday.

Very sad to me for him and his family.

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 08:59 AM
There ya go!

O'Brien said. "I would think as we all suspect, nothing good happens after 1 o'clock if you're around alcohol or around an environment where there could be weapons."

Evan_The_Dude
12-10-2007, 09:01 AM
I changed my opinion a bit since I last posted. I think there's a 99% chance that Tinsley will be suspended. I know he didn't do anything wrong, but like J'OB said, he also put himself in a dangerous situation. I'm thinking about it like this:

Shawne Williams was suspended because he got caught driving without a license WITH some guys with weed and a gun. Yes he was wrong for driving without a license, but I think he would have been suspended even if he had the license just because of who he was with when the incident happened.

Now think about this Tinsley incident. This is the 3rd night incident with Tinsley. He wasn't suspended the first 2 times. The words "Poor Judgment" were mentioned by Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh when they commented on the first two incidents. Those same words were [sort of] used when Jim O'Brien commented on this latest incident. Larry and Jim also used the words "Poor Judgment" in the Shawne Williams incident.

While I think a fine would be enough in this case, I think consistency is important here. Tinsley will be suspended maybe 1-2 games.

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 09:03 AM
Look, taken at face value JT would get a pass on this one. Similar incident could happen to any of us. BUT.....how many of us would have 3 violent incidents in our entire lives let alone 3 in one year??

Sorry, but that's a pattern...and Anthem as much as I respect you and your opinions this becomes, Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.....get involved a third time and it's time for some buttkickin'.

Spoken like a true Geezer. ;)

My views were different when I was 20-nothing as well. With experience comes a few hard knocks.

Boys will be boys....

indygeezer
12-10-2007, 09:14 AM
I keep hoping Ronnie will wise up. Maybe this one will finally do the trick. He has to be smarter about what he does.


Fixed

Unclebuck
12-10-2007, 09:24 AM
There ya go!

O'Brien said. "I would think as we all suspect, nothing good happens after 1 o'clock if you're around alcohol or around an environment where there could be weapons."

So 12:59 is OK then. I was always taught that nothing ever good happens after midnight - and I soon found out that was not the case at all - not at all

indygeezer
12-10-2007, 09:28 AM
So 12:59 is OK then. I was always taught that nothing ever good happens after midnight - and I soon found out that was not the case at all - not at all

sounds like a "story" might be hidden here. Care to elaborate?

Evan_The_Dude
12-10-2007, 09:39 AM
sounds like a "story" might be hidden here. Care to elaborate?

God I hope not...

McKeyFan
12-10-2007, 09:39 AM
A man with 4000 posts and a wife? Unpossible.

:D

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 09:44 AM
So 12:59 is OK then. I was always taught that nothing ever good happens after midnight - and I soon found out that was not the case at all - not at all

My dad said midnight as well...and I didn't believe him either.

He just wanted to instill some discipline...which is not a bad thing. The truth is, bad things happened before and after midnight...but time does matter obviously as more and more alcohol and drugs are consumed. I can tell you, about the time girls leave the bar, that's when the fights break out. ...and that ain't good.

....so maybe dad had something there. JMO.

McKeyFan
12-10-2007, 09:49 AM
I was always taught that nothing ever good happens after midnight - and I soon found out that was not the case at all - not at all

P is for Party!
A is for All Night Long . . .

You go, Uncle Buck.

QuickRelease
12-10-2007, 11:00 AM
You simply can't predict CRAZY...although you can put yourself in situations where CRAZY is less likely to be. But this week alone, we've had a shooting at a mall, and at a missionary training sight. Fact is, there are nut jobs everywhere. There are simply people out there who don't have any respect for anyone, or anything, and they draw their significance from doing this type of crap. It's sad to say, but Tinsley needs to know that he's the one that has to make the adjustment wherever possible. You know that even if it's not your fault, the media will highlight your name, and shooting as many times as possible. Although I don't agree with the assessment that Tinsley is "flaunting" his wealth by driving a nice car. I've read some pretty unfair stuff on here as far as Tinsley is concerned. It's not like Tinsley was hanging out with thse guys. They were outside of the club (which is also something to note...do we even know if these guys were in the club?), hanging by his car, starting a bunch of crap. When faced with the decision to engage, or walk away..Tinsley walked away....these guys followed them. Not sure what the Pacers could punish Tinsley for. Certainly not for being out late, when you haven't established a curfew. If it comes out that Tinsley did more, punish him then. But not for this as the information we have now suggests.

Ragnar
12-10-2007, 11:14 AM
I agree with johnnybegood here. From what I have read today these guys who shot at him started giving him crap about having money and he LEFT. What more could he have done. He made a semi smart move at not going home. (I am sure his neighbors appreciate that).

Had he been thinking clearly the smartest thing to do is to drive to the closest police station. However I can understand why you might not do that after a night out at the bars.

But how you can punish him for being WALKING AWAY and then being shot at is beyond me.

Clearly he needs to be advised not to go to places like that just to avoid the trouble

indygeezer
12-10-2007, 11:19 AM
You know that even if it's not your fault, the media will highlight your name, and shooting as many times as possible.

Greg Garrison vehemently condemned Tinsley on WIBC this AM. You know WIBC...the flagship station of the Pacers? Said that after three incidents it was time for the Simons to step up and order the guy off the team, whatever it took to get that done. His comment was that the P's could no longer afford any type of PR hit and Tinsley had provided three of them. Since that is what I have been saying (indirectly) since last night I'd have to think this guy is one super intelligent dude. ;)

Aw Heck
12-10-2007, 11:31 AM
Wow, I feel bad for Tinsley. The first two incidents you can blame him for.

But it appears that he did nothing wrong in this instance. Trouble found him in the parking lot, and he did the RIGHT THING by leaving. Yet here he is, getting scrutinized.

Yes, I know, just having the words "shooting" being associated with "Tinsley" and "Pacers" again is bad PR. That's unfortunate, but it's not Tinsley's fault. Blame it on the media for choosing how they present their stories or blame our quick-to-judge community.

I just hate how Tinsley did everything he could do avoid this and he still gets criticized. I guess he should just never leave the house now, just in case some psycho starts shooting at him and he'll get blamed for that too.

Unclebuck
12-10-2007, 11:52 AM
sounds like a "story" might be hidden here. Care to elaborate?

No I don't have any specific stories that "I care to share" - suffice it to say that good things can happen after midnight.

But as someone who has been sound asleep at midnight on New Years Eve (multiple times - not my favorite holiday) I'm certainly not the partier.

As I've gotten older, I do like to get home and off the streets before the bars close. and I do look for potential drunk drivers

QuickRelease
12-10-2007, 12:04 PM
Greg Garrison vehemently condemned Tinsley on WIBC this AM. You know WIBC...the flagship station of the Pacers? Said that after three incidents it was time for the Simons to step up and order the guy off the team, whatever it took to get that done. His comment was that the P's could no longer afford any type of PR hit and Tinsley had provided three of them. Since that is what I have been saying (indirectly) since last night I'd have to think this guy is one super intelligent dude. ;)

I also heard Teri Stacey on her soapbox about Tinsley needing to "grow up." Although I doubt Tinsley is the only Pacers/COLTS player hitting clubs (for all we know there were other pro athletes at Cloud 9). He's a single man who likes night life. Is that a maturity issue? Maybe...not sure I would say that. Sounds to me like the one who needs to grow up is the guy outside of the club giving JT a hard time for his success.

For all we know...maybe Jamaal alerted security at Cloud 9, and that's why these cats followed them, guns-ablazin...who knows...

Major Cold
12-10-2007, 12:04 PM
for me I have no problem with Tins being out late. Even if he had a entourage. He was packing and many more were. That is fine with me. He is a target because he is famous. He was with someone who had an outstanding warrant. I am not going to lie I have to.

If this was the first episode I would have been more sympathetic.

Growing up I went to Ball State to party as a high schooler. Everytime I went I got in a fight. Sometimes it was because I was an idiot, other times it was because I was a high schooler at a college party. After the third fight in as many trips I understood that I should not go there. The third time was also the last because two guys wanted to bash my face in and did.

At this time Tins has to understand that he is a target by people and the media. He needs to live above reproach. It may not seem "fair", but it is a sacrifice you make for money and fame.

BillS
12-10-2007, 12:05 PM
The truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes, Jamaal has every right in the world to be there. No, it doesn't look like he was out to cause trouble. Yes, he did the right thing by leaving.

However, it is also true that this isn't the first or now even second incident with Jamaal and trouble at clubs.

No matter what, no matter who is right who is wrong or even if there is anything wrong this is just one more thing the Pacers didn't need.


Look, taken at face value JT would get a pass on this one. Similar incident could happen to any of us. BUT.....how many of us would have 3 violent incidents in our entire lives let alone 3 in one year??

Sorry, but that's a pattern...and Anthem as much as I respect you and your opinions this becomes, Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me.....get involved a third time and it's time for some buttkickin'.

I just saw this today - luckily I was media-free all weekend and it didn't ruin my Sunday.

These quotes are the ones that seem to sum up what I think best.

IF this particular incident had been the first with Tinsley, I think there'd be no question that - barring further negative information - he would not be blamed. The biggest negative in the incident itself is that his brother went chasing off after the shooter and started firing back. Notwithstanding Seth's comments, that type of response actively endangers innocent people and causes more problems than it solves. If they hadn't been so focused on shooting back maybe they could have gotten a better description of the cars or the shooters.

BUT - and I think we have to agree it is a huge one - this is the third incident with Tinsley in it. I don't care that he probably didn't start this one, I don't care that he tried to do the right thing by pulling over in a well-lit and attended area. I care that from a PR perspective, he looks like a trouble magnet.

For this reason alone, he and the team need to do something active about it. Yes, it is a terrible infringement of his rights for him to he told he can't be out late during the season. Yes, it isn't fair for him to have to curtail his activities because someone has targeted him, possibly twice if you figure the 8 Second Saloon thing was a setup. But you know, Life Isn't Fair, and all things considered having to stay in after midnight is a lot less of an ordeal than the consequences of the unfair things that happened to many of the people Jamaal himself grew up around.

To me, the best way for Jamaal to react would be something like this. Call a press conference with JOB and Larry at his side and say something like:

"I am here today to try to make amends to the city of Indianapolis and the fans of the Indiana Pacers for the events surrounding my free time activities over the past year or so.

"As Coach O'Brien has said, it has been my right to be out with my friends and family members late at night. As he also said, these decisions have placed not only the reputation of the team in jeopardy but my own life and the lives of those around me.

"Sports figures such as myself are not at fault for becoming targets while trying to live their lives off the court. That being said, when these incidents become more of a focus for the public than a player's career, it is time to take some responsibility for them.

"Accordingly, I am pledging to this city that I will do everything I can to make certain another of these incidents does not occur. Specifically, I will not be attending any clubs or other night spots after midnight for the remainder of this season.

"Life is not fair, and I certainly don't believe I deserve any kind of punishment for these recent events. However, my respect for this city and the Indiana Pacers demands that I face up to the realities of my current situation and do my part to avoid repetition."


Sometimes poo happens and even if you ain't the guy what flung it, you're the poor slob who has to clean it up.


Now, will this happen? I doubt it.

My biggest disappointment? Friday night after the game I thought to myself that these Pacers are becoming the kind of hard-working never-give-up team that this city has wanted to embrace. Maybe they could win back some fans.

Damn.

Karmakillaz
12-10-2007, 12:06 PM
Unless the Pacers instate a curfew you can not punish a guy simply for being out late.

As far as anything I have head Tinsley tried to difuse the situation by leaving.

It is a sad state when some think Tinsley brought this on him self because he drove a nice car into a suspect area. Last I checked there is nothing illegal about that.

I am disappointed to see people somehow give ANY blame to Tinsley.


SO unless details come out that somehow implicate Tinsley I would much rather see people support him, he was almost killed.

Major Cold
12-10-2007, 12:24 PM
Unless the Pacers instate a curfew you can not punish a guy simply for being out late.

As far as anything I have head Tinsley tried to difuse the situation by leaving.

It is a sad state when some think Tinsley brought this on him self because he drove a nice car into a suspect area. Last I checked there is nothing illegal about that.

I am disappointed to see people somehow give ANY blame to Tinsley.


SO unless details come out that somehow implicate Tinsley I would much rather see people support him, he was almost killed.

says the man with the jail bird pic of Tinsley.

BlueNGold
12-10-2007, 12:42 PM
His comment was that the P's could no longer afford any type of PR hit and Tinsley had provided three of them. Since that is what I have been saying (indirectly) since last night I'd have to think this guy is one super intelligent dude. ;)

I have come full circle on this. I don't think PR matters much anymore.

The players have clearly defined themselves to the entire city...whatever that definition means to you or me. IMO, the franchise has largely reached the point of diminishing returns in terms of losing fans. The image is fully tarnished and will take years and new personnel and more wins of course to bring back the droves.

In the meantime, all TPTB need to worry about is to practice holding press conferences, attempt to trade problem players and draft more carefully. This will take years to change, so don't hold your breath.

For now, it's best to back Tinsley until the day he is traded. Clearly no amount of common sense or complaining is enough to get the franchise to deal him...so it's simply time to stop pushing for that and play ball!