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View Full Version : If the NBA wasn't corrupt, the refs would be held accountable...



Shade
05-30-2004, 10:31 PM
...for obviously biased officiating like the Pistons have gotten in this series. They're allowed to do absolutely anything they want, and they get away with it. On the flip side, we get called for touch fouls and get t'd up for everything.

Pistons fans will scoff at this right now, but mark my words -- they'll be singing a different tune after the Lakers are handed the :trophy:.

zxc
05-30-2004, 10:35 PM
Can't really blame the refs for this one. I blame Tinsley for forcing so many shots when he is injured, Croshere for playing like the piece of crap we knew he was, bench for not showing up till it was over, crappy second half FT shooting, etc, etc.

Shade
05-30-2004, 10:37 PM
Can't really blame the refs for this one. I blame Tinsley for forcing so many shots when he is injured, Croshere for playing like the piece of crap we knew he was, bench for not showing up till it was over, crappy second half FT shooting, etc, etc.

But you can't deny the biased officiating. I'm not saying it's the only reason we lost (it wasn't), but I'm sick of constantly being at a disadvantage.

Southside_Pacer
05-30-2004, 10:40 PM
The call that pissed me off the most was when Jermaine gets called for an over the back on an offensive rebound.

However, Detroit does that often, and has NEVER gotten called for it.

It's also pretty bias when Javie KNEW that he was going to give Jermaine a technical, yet allowed to continue on their fastbreak allowing them the opportunity to score.

However, when they did not and play resumed at the other end, he THEN gives Jermaine the T.

If you're going to give Jermaine a technical, that's fine. But DO IT WHEN YOU KNOW YOU'RE GOING TOO, NOT LATER!!!!!

zxc
05-30-2004, 10:40 PM
Dunno about earlier games but can deny it tonight. We didn't get every call but we got more then they did.

sweabs
05-30-2004, 10:42 PM
Plain and simple - we really can't blame the refs. We played a REAL BAD game tonight and can only blame ourselves.

AcneBrain
05-30-2004, 10:43 PM
http://www.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68374

:mad:

Shade
05-30-2004, 10:44 PM
Plain and simple - we really can't blame the refs. We played a REAL BAD game tonight and can only blame ourselves.

I'm not "blaming the refs" so much as I'm stating a fact.

bulletproof
05-30-2004, 10:47 PM
Refs can certainly shift momentum.

waterjater
05-30-2004, 10:54 PM
F--- Javie and the NBA.

We'll see who shows up to either help us get to game 7 or put us out of our misery on Tues.

I predict Dick the Knick Bavetta or Salvatore for Game 6.

Water

Shade
05-30-2004, 10:55 PM
F--- Javie and the NBA.

We'll see who shows up to either help us get to game 7 or put us out of our misery on Tues.

I predict Dick the Knick Bavetta or Salvatore for Game 6.

Water

Yep, book it. One of those two will put the final nail in the coffin on Tuesday.

Grey
05-30-2004, 11:24 PM
I predict Dick the Knick Bavetta or Salvatore for Game 6.

Don't expect Salvatore to do the Pistons any favors.



May 11:The Pistons did let the officiating get in their heads Sunday. The minute they saw Bennett Salvatore was working the game, they knew they were in trouble. They are now 1-5 in games that Bennett has worked this season, including both playoff losses. Larry Brown's last three playoff defeats were officiated by Salvatore. Brown and Salvatore despise each other. It goes back a long, long time. The NBA arranged a meeting between them before the season to hash out the differences. Obviously, that was a waste of time.

http://info.detnews.com/pistonsblog/

Shade
05-30-2004, 11:37 PM
I predict Dick the Knick Bavetta or Salvatore for Game 6.

Don't expect Salvatore to do the Pistons any favors.



May 11:The Pistons did let the officiating get in their heads Sunday. The minute they saw Bennett Salvatore was working the game, they knew they were in trouble. They are now 1-5 in games that Bennett has worked this season, including both playoff losses. Larry Brown's last three playoff defeats were officiated by Salvatore. Brown and Salvatore despise each other. It goes back a long, long time. The NBA arranged a meeting between them before the season to hash out the differences. Obviously, that was a waste of time.

http://info.detnews.com/pistonsblog/

Bavetta it is.

Hicks
05-30-2004, 11:39 PM
From the NBA rule book:

From the leagues own rules found at NBA.com:

Rule No 12-Fouls and Penalties Section V

f. Assessment of a technical foul shall be avoided whenever and wherever pos-sible; but, when necessary they are to be assessed without delay or procrastination.

Javie can suck my @%)(

arenn
05-30-2004, 11:46 PM
Bottom line, we absolutely sucked out there tonight. But it was clear the refs were picking on Reggie and JO. Remember Rasheed running out into the aisles screaming and pumping his fists in the first couple games and no T's? Yet Reggie and JO get tee'd up? Clearly the officiating was pro-Pistons. Anybody gets within a country mile of Rip and it's a foul but our guys get swarmed underneath and nothing. But regardless, even with pro-Pacer officiating we would have deserved the L. With the exception of Fred Jones, our entire team played poorly. In fact, I'd argue the officating hurts us because it gives the players something to focus on besides their own play.

Mourning
05-30-2004, 11:51 PM
True, though I thought that AJ didnt play that bad. What killed us also was our pathetic FT shooting.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

sweabs
05-30-2004, 11:59 PM
.
Bottom line, we absolutely sucked out there tonight. But it was clear the refs were picking on Reggie and JO. Remember Rasheed running out into the aisles screaming and pumping his fists in the first couple games and no T's? Yet Reggie and JO get tee'd up? Clearly the officiating was pro-Pistons. Anybody gets within a country mile of Rip and it's a foul but our guys get swarmed underneath and nothing. But regardless, even with pro-Pacer officiating we would have deserved the L. With the exception of Fred Jones, our entire team played poorly. In fact, I'd argue the officating hurts us because it gives the players something to focus on besides their own play.

You make an interesting point. So Rasheed didn't get T-ed up for all of his antics in Game 2, and Reggie/JO get T-ed for what looked to be a lot less significant! Give me a break :rolleyes: . Consistency - that is all I'm asking for.

DTropps
05-31-2004, 12:06 AM
I'm sorry but ref conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

Fool
05-31-2004, 12:07 AM
The Pistons had 22 personal fouls called on them. The Pacers 20.

I'm not trying to **** anyone off but foul calls always seem more biased when you are down and especially when you are hoping every point will lead to a run.

able
05-31-2004, 12:10 AM
The Pistons had 22 personal fouls called on them. The Pacers 20.

I'm not trying to **** anyone off but foul calls always seem more biased when you are down and especially when you are hoping every point will lead to a run.

agreed but then again, the Pistons made aboout 50 fouls, the Pacers 10, you see any discrepancy now in your stats ???

Shade
05-31-2004, 12:16 AM
I'm sorry but ref conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

You'll feel differently after the Finals.

Shade
05-31-2004, 12:17 AM
The Pistons had 22 personal fouls called on them. The Pacers 20.

I'm not trying to **** anyone off but foul calls always seem more biased when you are down and especially when you are hoping every point will lead to a run.

But Detroit fouled us far more times than we fouled them -- that's the point.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 12:19 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.

Shade
05-31-2004, 12:21 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.

But they're wrong. :p

Seriously, though, Detroit will get whistled for all of these fouls against the Lakers.

able
05-31-2004, 12:22 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 12:29 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 12:33 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

You'd simply have to see it from this side. I've felt this loooong before your Pistons came to rain on my parade. I've never once in a series had to feel guilty advancing because I felt the refs handed it to us. Not even a little. Can you honestly tell me all your low-post defense is honest? Do you seriously believe they're just "that good" they don't foul that much? Please.

Shade
05-31-2004, 12:34 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

You'd simply have to see it from this side. I've felt this loooong before your Pistons came to rain on my parade. I've never once in a series had to feel guilty advancing because I felt the refs handed it to us. Not even a little. Can you honestly tell me all your low-post defense is honest? Do you seriously believe they're just "that good" they don't foul that much? Please.

Exactly.

No offense, Kstat, but you're becoming more and more homerish every day. You used to be much more objectionable.

able
05-31-2004, 12:41 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

You'd simply have to see it from this side. I've felt this loooong before your Pistons came to rain on my parade. I've never once in a series had to feel guilty advancing because I felt the refs handed it to us. Not even a little. Can you honestly tell me all your low-post defense is honest? Do you seriously believe they're just "that good" they don't foul that much? Please.

Exactly.

No offense, Kstat, but you're becoming more and more homerish every day. You used to be much more objectionable.

slowly but damn sure he is turning into a troll of serious magnitude.

Not only doesn't he show when they lost, yeah a day late, but when they won he is here rubbing it in, well let me lighten you up sonny:

You and i saw the same game, on the same type of television no doubt, or are you now gonna tell me that not only can yo not go to games you also don't watch them?

Your "inside" defense is a "hack-a-ton" of enormous proportions, sanctioned by the ref-taste of the night.

If you can not admit simple things like the ridiculous T on JO (delayed no less like it was a friggin hockey game) then you have lost not only objectivity but also sanity and i pity you.

I'm unfortunately slightly to far away to attend home games (only about 6,000 miles out) but let me tell you, if any "piston-fan" pushed someone wearing a pacer jersey down the stairs, I would personally kick his *** back to Detroit.

condoning such behaviour is an almost bigger disgrace then drunkenly comitting it.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 12:44 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

You'd simply have to see it from this side. I've felt this loooong before your Pistons came to rain on my parade. I've never once in a series had to feel guilty advancing because I felt the refs handed it to us. Not even a little. Can you honestly tell me all your low-post defense is honest? Do you seriously believe they're just "that good" they don't foul that much? Please.

Can you honestly tell me that Reggie is only as good as the refs that call his flops, since without them he'd have like 5,000 fewer points on his resume? You do realize EVERYONE IN THE NBA thinks the pacers get calls because of reggie miller.

And yes, I do feel our post defense is just that good. Just like you believe Reggie Miller is just that good. To defend one but not the other is purely hypocritical.

Shade
05-31-2004, 12:45 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

You'd simply have to see it from this side. I've felt this loooong before your Pistons came to rain on my parade. I've never once in a series had to feel guilty advancing because I felt the refs handed it to us. Not even a little. Can you honestly tell me all your low-post defense is honest? Do you seriously believe they're just "that good" they don't foul that much? Please.

Can you honestly tell me that Reggie is only as good as the refs that call his flops, since without them he'd have like 5,000 fewer points on his resume? You do realize EVERYONE IN THE NBA thinks the pacers get calls because of reggie miller.

And yes, I do feel our post defense is just that good. Just like you believe Reggie Miller is just that good. To defend one but not the other is purely hypocritical.

You have no idea what you're talking about. We damn well do acknowledge Reggie's legendary flopping. But he was getting hosed as badly as anyone tonight.

And your interior defense is not THAT good. It will be exposed by the Lakers.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 12:49 AM
Kstat, all you can do is throw back accusations without really defending your own. Reggie flops. Reggie's gotten lots of calls for his flops. That in no way shape or form makes your defense light in fouls. Not at all.

Shade is correct; it will be fully exposed against the Lakers. They won't let you do it to Shaq or Kobe, and probably not Karl or Gary either.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 12:50 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

You'd simply have to see it from this side. I've felt this loooong before your Pistons came to rain on my parade. I've never once in a series had to feel guilty advancing because I felt the refs handed it to us. Not even a little. Can you honestly tell me all your low-post defense is honest? Do you seriously believe they're just "that good" they don't foul that much? Please.

Exactly.

No offense, Kstat, but you're becoming more and more homerish every day. You used to be much more objectionable.

slowly but damn sure he is turning into a troll of serious magnitude.

Not only doesn't he show when they lost, yeah a day late, but when they won he is here rubbing it in, well let me lighten you up sonny:

You and i saw the same game, on the same type of television no doubt, or are you now gonna tell me that not only can yo not go to games you also don't watch them?

Your "inside" defense is a "hack-a-ton" of enormous proportions, sanctioned by the ref-taste of the night.

If you can not admit simple things like the ridiculous T on JO (delayed no less like it was a friggin hockey game) then you have lost not only objectivity but also sanity and i pity you.

I'm unfortunately slightly to far away to attend home games (only about 6,000 miles out) but let me tell you, if any "piston-fan" pushed someone wearing a pacer jersey down the stairs, I would personally kick his *** back to Detroit.

condoning such behaviour is an almost bigger disgrace then drunkenly comitting it.

Point out where I was "rubbing it in." Go ahead, I DARE you.

BTW, I highly doubt a piston fan REALLY pushed a pacer fan down the stairs. If I reported a Pacer fan did that at a pistons game would YOU believe it? No.

And you seem to like putting words in my mouth too I see. I figured everyone would take their anger out on me, but I came here anyway. Oh well. I'm actually being more positive about the pacers than %90 of the poster here....and you call ME the troll :laugh:

able
05-31-2004, 12:59 AM
and on the same token youll find a lot of pistons fans thought the pacers fouled the pistons more. Welcome to homerism 101.
In which you obviously excelled.

I am not often, no strong still, I have never to my recollection, blamed the refs, tonight was absolutely ridiculous.

anyone saying different has a problem.

Yes yes, the poor pacers got the short end again, and anyone who thinks differently has the problem :rolleyes: VERY original, able.

You'd simply have to see it from this side. I've felt this loooong before your Pistons came to rain on my parade. I've never once in a series had to feel guilty advancing because I felt the refs handed it to us. Not even a little. Can you honestly tell me all your low-post defense is honest? Do you seriously believe they're just "that good" they don't foul that much? Please.

Exactly.

No offense, Kstat, but you're becoming more and more homerish every day. You used to be much more objectionable.

slowly but damn sure he is turning into a troll of serious magnitude.

Not only doesn't he show when they lost, yeah a day late, but when they won he is here rubbing it in, well let me lighten you up sonny:

You and i saw the same game, on the same type of television no doubt, or are you now gonna tell me that not only can yo not go to games you also don't watch them?

Your "inside" defense is a "hack-a-ton" of enormous proportions, sanctioned by the ref-taste of the night.

If you can not admit simple things like the ridiculous T on JO (delayed no less like it was a friggin hockey game) then you have lost not only objectivity but also sanity and i pity you.

I'm unfortunately slightly to far away to attend home games (only about 6,000 miles out) but let me tell you, if any "piston-fan" pushed someone wearing a pacer jersey down the stairs, I would personally kick his *** back to Detroit.

condoning such behaviour is an almost bigger disgrace then drunkenly comitting it.

Point out where I was "rubbing it in." Go ahead, I DARE you.

BTW, I highly doubt a piston fan REALLY pushed a pacer fan down the stairs. If I reported a Pacer fan did that at a pistons game would YOU believe it? No.

And you seem to like putting words in my mouth too I see. I figured everyone would take their anger out on me, but I came here anyway. Oh well. I'm actually being more positive about the pacers than %90 of the poster here....and you call ME the troll :laugh:

dare me ???

Your entire behaviour is geared towards this, one does not words to "rub it in", one can behave that way, like you do. read your own posts if you're not quite sure about what I mean.

Flirting with it, but go ahead, the sweeter the Pistons' fall will taste, whenever it comes.
You doubting observations by someone who was at the game is outrageous, never once was this kind of topic posted earlier, so why would it be made up now, why would anyone have a reason, other then misplaced homerism, to doubt such words?

Me putting words in your mouth? surely you thrown out enough garbage tonight that you don't need my help, show me where.

Your so called "support" is nothing but taunting, insulting nothing else.

But then again, it takes more then this to insult me, perhaps it is therefore you hide the insults and pretend?

you call people liars, fans bad, and our opinions worthless and you are not insulting people??

you gotta be joking, or insane.

brichard
05-31-2004, 01:00 AM
The Pacers lost tonights game b/c they flat out sucked. You can blame everybody not named Fred Jones, and that includes Rick Carlisle. I don't blame the officiating.

However, do you know what really ticks me off? I'm one of these guys that susbcribes to a theory I'll call NBA Realism. We all know that if you are on the interstate the speed limit is not really 55. The speed limit, as it is predominately enforced, is about 67 mph... depending on the town.

What irks me to no end is the lack of a "home court advantage." There is no way JO should have been called with that over-the-back call esp. when you consider he is an elite player and playing at home. You play all year to get the best record so you get the friendly whistle here and there. At the very least you expect a game where the officiating doesn't take sides one way or the other, but to feel like it is tipping the other way... that is tough. Remember, it isn't just how may fouls are called, but who the fouls are called on is important.

Reggie shouldn't have been awarded a trip to the line for his leg kick, but did it really warrant a foul? It wasn't a particularly hard foul and should have been a no-call in my opinon. Those are the types of fouls you just don't expect to have called on your home court. As many years as Reg has been in the league, he should have to shoot somebody for them to call an offensive foul on him based on the NBA merit system. And the techs on Reg and O'neal... with what has been allowed in this series? Very puzzling to say the least.

I'd love for the NBA to be a place where everything was equal. The superstars wouldn't get preferrential treatment and home court wouldn't mean anything. However, we all know that star treatment and home cooking happen in most sports, particularly the NBA. The refs just about walked the Pistons back into the game at the Palace the other night.

I was particularly upset with the Billups leg grab on Tinsley. There is nothing wrong with exposing a player's weakness. If a guy is hurt, you drive on him b/c he has a bum wheel. But to grab an injured guys leg and pull on it... that was Laimbeer-dirty in my honest opinion. I can deal with tugging and holding b/c everybody does that, but to aggravate an injury with a dirty foul... that is just unconscionable.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:08 AM
Reggie shouldn't have been awarded a trip to the line for his leg kick, but did it really warrant a foul?

I honestly think everyone watching a TV tuned into the game in 49 states gave that call a standing ovation. Reggie has been getting away with kicking out with that leg for SEVENTEEN YEARS- and FINALLY he gets penalized for it. I know me and everyone watching the game looked at each other and laughed.

It should have been a no-call for sure, but I think every 17 years he was due for one :laugh:

I was particularly upset with the Billups leg grab on Tinsley. There is nothing wrong with exposing a player's weakness. If a guy is hurt, you drive on him b/c he has a bum wheel. But to grab an injured guys leg and pull on it... that was Laimbeer-dirty in my honest opinion.

Billups was on the floor, and if you NOTICED the Pacers had a 4-on-2 fast break if Tins would have caught that outlet pass. Not to mention that the ref was RIGHT IN FRONT on the play. If Billups REALLY wanted to hurt Tins, there were far less obvious ways of doing it. I'm certain he wasnt even THINKING about his injured leg.

Billups did what he had to do to stop a fast break. It wasnt a dirty play.

brichard
05-31-2004, 01:19 AM
Kstat, I can understand the enthusiasm for the call. Reggie isn't the only "kicker" out there, Karl Malone is known for that as well. Iverson palms the ball, Ewing took about 20 steps to the basket for a layup, Jordan hooked on every play, etc. But to make that call in the Eastern Conference Finals at home on a 38 year-old veteran... wow.

We will agree to disagree, but that still goes down as a dirty foul in my book. He didn't twist it or anything, but there is no situation where it is appropriated to pull on a gimpy mans leg.

Suaveness
05-31-2004, 01:20 AM
Frankly, I agree with everything Shade has been saying.

Refs can kiss my ***, and Kstat, you have seriously gotten worse with your homerism.

It was so obvious there was biased reffing. They were doing as much as possible to let the Pistons win. And hey, they did.

Congrats to the NBA for ruining this league. I hope you and all you Lakers fans are happy.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 01:21 AM
Intentionally tripping a player is always dirty.

DTropps
05-31-2004, 01:21 AM
I'm sorry but ref conspiracy theories are ridiculous.

You'll feel differently after the Finals.


No I won't (if we make it to the finals). I have never credited or blamed refs for deciding a game. A lot of Pistons fans still gripe about the fantom Laimbeer foul against Jabbar. I have never griped about it. It was a call that was made and - right or wrong - I can live with it. I am human. If one of my peers makes a mistake and makes a poor call I can live with it. After all the team I am pulling for makes tons of mistakes every single game.

unstandable
05-31-2004, 01:30 AM
Ah, the loser's lament - blaming the refs. Perhaps the greatest fan tradition of all time.

K stat, I would just stay out of threads discussing the refs on other boards. It's what I try to do. They want to complain, and they don't want anyone to say anything different. I say just let them have their fun.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:31 AM
Kstat, I can understand the enthusiasm for the call. Reggie isn't the only "kicker" out there, Karl Malone is known for that as well. Iverson palms the ball, Ewing took about 20 steps to the basket for a layup, Jordan hooked on every play, etc. But to make that call in the Eastern Conference Finals at home on a 38 year-old veteran... wow.

We will agree to disagree, but that still goes down as a dirty foul in my book. He didn't twist it or anything, but there is no situation where it is appropriated to pull on a gimpy mans leg.

I'm sorry, but the fact he has a gimply leg should NOT prevent someone from making a play they would ordinarily make. If you're injured and you're playing, you take the risk.

Billups stopped what would have been a sure basket. He wasnt TRYING to injured the guy, he was just trying to prevent two points.

efx
05-31-2004, 01:31 AM
So why do some of you guys watch the games at all?

If you are convinced that the league plays favorites you know damn well the Pacers will never win anything. If I truly believed the refs are to blame for our losses then I would not watch the sport anymore. What would be the point?

Personally, I think we lost this game thanks to our injuries and pathetically unspired play. I don't blame the refs and I never will. They will make bad calls and there might be some personal agendas but not to the point that a team can blame their loss on them.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:33 AM
So why do some of you guys watch the games at all?

If you are convinced that the league plays favorites you know damn well the Pacers will never win anything. If I truly believed the refs are to blame for our losses then I would not watch the sport anymore. What would be the point?

Personally, I think we lost this game thanks to our injuries and pathetically unspired play. I don't blame the refs and I never will. They will make bad calls and there might be some personal agendas but not to the point that a team can blame their loss on them.

THANK YOU

On nights like this, I wonder why this board even exists. If you think the NBA will never allow you to win an nba title, then why bother being a fan?

Suaveness
05-31-2004, 01:33 AM
Ah, the loser's lament - blaming the refs. Perhaps the greatest fan tradition of all time.

K stat, I would just stay out of threads discussing the refs on other boards. It's what I try to do. They want to complain, and they don't want anyone to say anything different. I say just let them have their fun.

**** off.

You know, you Pistons fans have SOME nerve coming here after a win. Yet, when you lose, we never see you. Don't be jackasses.

MagicRat
05-31-2004, 01:35 AM
I honestly think everyone watching a TV tuned into the game in 49 states gave that call a standing ovation. Reggie has been getting away with kicking out with that leg for SEVENTEEN YEARS- and FINALLY he gets penalized for it. I know me and everyone watching the game looked at each other and laughed.

It should have been a no-call for sure, but I think every 17 years he was due for one :laugh:

Wrong answer. Reggie hasn't gotten that call in years. Refs seem to really take joy in calling it an offensive foul. I have no idea why he still tries it......

unstandable
05-31-2004, 01:36 AM
My point is just that threads about the refs are going to be the least objective and most homeristic (on both sides) of any topic. So I suggest steering clear when on opposing teams' boards.

As for not being around after a loss, check again, you've got the wrong guy. The night I posted on here the most was after game one.

DTropps
05-31-2004, 01:38 AM
I just read this entire thread.
Do all of you really believe this or is this the heat of the moment?

From the beginning of time people have thought "someone" has something against their team. The fact remains the NBA doesn't have to do those things to create a great product or story line.

Most conspiracy people gripe about the Lakers - if the NBA wants them to win why didn't the Lakers win last year? I lived in Chicago during the second phase of the dynasty. Even in Chicago there were fans that thought the refs and NBA were against them because their act was "getting old" and hurting the NBA.

This season on a Pistons MB I am part of we had fans that thought the refs screwed us out of about 4-5 games. I told them all those accusations were ridiculous.

The sooner people can get past officiating - good or bad - the better you can enjoy the games.

brichard
05-31-2004, 01:40 AM
[quote]


I'm sorry, but the fact he has a gimply leg should NOT prevent someone from making a play they would ordinarily make. If you're injured and you're playing, you take the risk.

Billups stopped what would have been a sure basket. He wasnt TRYING to injured the guy, he was just trying to prevent two points.

OK, if Rasheed Wallace was about to start a similar break, yet Jeff Foster stepped on his foot with Plantar Fasciitis (sp?) to stop him... do you view things the same way? If you are being honest with yourself, I don't think you would.

This isn't the Girl Scouts, so in the course of the game people are going to get hurt. I'm not suggesting people wear kid gloves. But if it looks like somebody is intentionally banging into JO's knee or a player deliberately trips somebody with a gimpy leg... that totally changes things. This is the way all these guys earn their livelihood. If you are willing to play by these rules, you'd better be ready to live by them. And that my friend is how people get hurt.

Wanna stop him? Get up and slap his hand in an obvious no attempt at a steal. Even a tug on the shorts would be more ethical than a trip.

brichard
05-31-2004, 01:47 AM
I just want to point out that several of us on this thread, including me, aren't blaming the officials for the loss. However, many of us are questioning some of the calls. This is a Pacer fan Internet forum. Why can't the officiating be discussed? Isn't it an element of the game?

Sometimes I vent on the officiaiting to get a reality check. Everybody has a different perspective. But I have to tell you, I have also clearly admitted when I think my team has benefitted from some no-calls. As long as a person is objective, I have no problem mentioning the officiating. Sometimes the officials do stink and it can cost you the game, and that is just a fact. However, tonight was not one of those nights where the officials cost us the game. Rip Hamilton was a much bigger concern than the pinstripes.

TheSauceMaster
05-31-2004, 01:51 AM
You can blame the Refs til the cows come home , or you can blame Reggie Miller for Letting Rip Hamilton Explode on him like a Nuclear Bomb.

The only call that disturbed me was the T on JO that Javie Delayed in calling , but I dont think that would have helped the outcome of this Game.

This Game was for the Pacers to Lose and they Lost it with Poor Play ..No excuses

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:52 AM
[quote]


I'm sorry, but the fact he has a gimply leg should NOT prevent someone from making a play they would ordinarily make. If you're injured and you're playing, you take the risk.

Billups stopped what would have been a sure basket. He wasnt TRYING to injured the guy, he was just trying to prevent two points.

OK, if Rasheed Wallace was about to start a similar break, yet Jeff Foster stepped on his foot with Plantar Fasciitis (sp?) to stop him... do you view things the same way? If you are being honest with yourself, I don't think you would.

This isn't the Girl Scouts, so in the course of the game people are going to get hurt. I'm not suggesting people wear kid gloves. But if it looks like somebody is intentionally banging into JO's knee or a player deliberately trips somebody with a gimpy leg... that totally changes things. This is the way all these guys earn their livelihood. If you are willing to play by these rules, you'd better be ready to live by them. And that my friend is how people get hurt.

Wanna stop him? Get up and slap his hand in an obvious no attempt at a steal. Even a tug on the shorts would be more ethical than a trip.

Um, did you see the play? Billups was on the floor. The only part of Tinsley he COULD grab was his shoe.

And stepping on someone's foot is different, if only because I can see no real way why someone would ONLY have the option of standing on his man's foot, like billups's only option was to grab jamaal's ankle.

brichard
05-31-2004, 01:58 AM
I did see the play indeed. I'm saying Chauncey could have tried to get up and catch Tinsley. Since he is playing with one leg right now, that seems feasible. If I can't catch him another way... I give up the points. I wouldn't want the reputation as a guy who commits a questionable foul that reinjures a player. Chauncey is going to be injured at some time and people have good memories. Live by the sword and die by the sword. I just think in this situation the risk was greater than the reward.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 02:11 AM
I did see the play indeed. I'm saying Chauncey could have tried to get up and catch Tinsley. Since he is playing with one leg right now, that seems feasible. If I can't catch him another way... I give up the points. I wouldn't want the reputation as a guy who commits a questionable foul that reinjures a player. Chauncey is going to be injured at some time and people have good memories. Live by the sword and die by the sword. I just think in this situation the risk was greater than the reward.

Didn't see the playoffs last year, did you.

Chauncy basically had his season TAKEN AWAY by Eric Snow, why pulled a Bruce Bowen and put his feet directly below Chauncy's on a jumper, and chauncy badly sprained his ankle. the last 2 rounds of the playoffs billups was MAYBE %20 of his former self.

I don't fault eric snow though, he was just being physical.

Isiah thomas badly sprained his ankle in game 6 of the finals, and after 2 days his leg was the size of a freaking watermelon. And yet the Lakers CONTINUED to knock him to the floor play after play.

But I never once blamed the other team. Injuries are a part of the game. A tough pill to swollow, yeah, but I've had to swollow it many times over the last 17 years. Chauncy was just trying to save his team points, and if tins is playing hurt thats his own damn problem. Guys get tripped purposely 5-6 times during the average NBA game. It wasnt a dirty play.

ChicagoJ
05-31-2004, 03:17 AM
You can blame the Refs til the cows come home , or you can blame Reggie Miller for Letting Rip Hamilton Explode on him like a Nuclear Bomb.

The only call that disturbed me was the T on JO that Javie Delayed in calling , but I dont think that would have helped the outcome of this Game.

This Game was for the Pacers to Lose and they Lost it with Poor Play ..No excuses

I've never agreed with you more. ;)

However, if the Pacers were pointing to JO's and Tinsley's injuries as an excuse, I'd have a hard time arguing.

I thought this game was well officiated. Reggie gets called for that kick more often than its either a no-call or a defensive foul. Ron and Jamaal stayed out of foul trouble.

And the Pistons have consistently been allowed to hack and clobber the Pacers in the paint all series long.

I did find it funny that the Pistons fans/ kids sitting next to me were all over the officials because they thought the Pacers were beating up on thier players in the paint. Very ironic, don'tcha think?

I guess I do remember yelling at one of Ronnie Garretson's calls, because I yelled that his dad was 10x better as an official. :blush:

waterjater
05-31-2004, 04:39 AM
I did see the play indeed. I'm saying Chauncey could have tried to get up and catch Tinsley. Since he is playing with one leg right now, that seems feasible. If I can't catch him another way... I give up the points. I wouldn't want the reputation as a guy who commits a questionable foul that reinjures a player. Chauncey is going to be injured at some time and people have good memories. Live by the sword and die by the sword. I just think in this situation the risk was greater than the reward.

Didn't see the playoffs last year, did you.

Chauncy basically had his season TAKEN AWAY by Eric Snow, why pulled a Bruce Bowen and put his feet directly below Chauncy's on a jumper, and chauncy badly sprained his ankle. the last 2 rounds of the playoffs billups was MAYBE %20 of his former self.

I don't fault eric snow though, he was just being physical.

Isiah thomas badly sprained his ankle in game 6 of the finals, and after 2 days his leg was the size of a freaking watermelon. And yet the Lakers CONTINUED to knock him to the floor play after play.

But I never once blamed the other team. Injuries are a part of the game. A tough pill to swollow, yeah, but I've had to swollow it many times over the last 17 years. Chauncy was just trying to save his team points, and if tins is playing hurt thats his own damn problem. Guys get tripped purposely 5-6 times during the average NBA game. It wasnt a dirty play.

All right, so what do you call Ben Wallace undercutting Oneal causing an awful hyperextension of his Knee. Ben, Rasheed, Karl Malone all undercut the jump shooter and its never called a foul. This in unfortunate and has now injured a NBA top 5 player in the ECF.

TOO MUCH CONTACT IS ALLOWED, AT least Joey Crawford KNOWS THE RULES and stopped that ***** in game 4 by calling the fouls forcing the players to play defense with their feet. When that happens, Detroit is a good but not great defense!

Water

waterjater
05-31-2004, 04:41 AM
[
I guess I do remember yelling at one of Ronnie Garretson's calls, because I yelled that his dad was 10x better as an official. :blush:[/quote]


Then Ronnie is really BAD, because I thought his father sucked.!

TheSauceMaster
05-31-2004, 04:46 AM
I guess I do remember yelling at one of Ronnie Garretson's calls, because I yelled that his dad was 10x better as an official. :blush:

Holy cow I thought I heard some Lunatic fan screaming that during the Game :P

indygeezer
05-31-2004, 08:37 AM
[quote]


I'm sorry, but the fact he has a gimply leg should NOT prevent someone from making a play they would ordinarily make. If you're injured and you're playing, you take the risk.

Billups stopped what would have been a sure basket. He wasnt TRYING to injured the guy, he was just trying to prevent two points.

OK, if Rasheed Wallace was about to start a similar break, yet Jeff Foster stepped on his foot with Plantar Fasciitis (sp?) to stop him... do you view things the same way? If you are being honest with yourself, I don't think you would.

This isn't the Girl Scouts, so in the course of the game people are going to get hurt. I'm not suggesting people wear kid gloves. But if it looks like somebody is intentionally banging into JO's knee or a player deliberately trips somebody with a gimpy leg... that totally changes things. This is the way all these guys earn their livelihood. If you are willing to play by these rules, you'd better be ready to live by them. And that my friend is how people get hurt.

Wanna stop him? Get up and slap his hand in an obvious no attempt at a steal. Even a tug on the shorts would be more ethical than a trip.

Um, did you see the play? Billups was on the floor. The only part of Tinsley he COULD grab was his shoe.

And stepping on someone's foot is different, if only because I can see no real way why someone would ONLY have the option of standing on his man's foot, like billups's only option was to grab jamaal's ankle.


and if that had been Ron Artest grabbing Billups foot on a breakaway?



The JO tech compared to the sheed no-tech in Detroit REALLY bothers me. Alos as shown earlier, the rule states it is to be called IMMEDIATELY...but that's just nit-picking the rules, isn't it?

able
05-31-2004, 10:11 AM
if that had been Ron he would've ben tossed from the game, flagrant 2, had a 2 games suspension and the rest of the world all over him for being such a badly controlled player.

fouls with the intent to throw a player against the wood used to be flagrant, no matter what you make of it.
Was there any other intent on that foul? none.

the T on JO is something I don't even wish to discuss, Javie invented new rules there, or thought he was officiating a hockey match, either way he was way off.

most vivid images I have is JO going up for a lay-up or rebound amidst 3 defenders and all have their arms out, yet JO gets the foul.

not once, several times.

It was NOT the officiation that lost us the game, but they sure as hell didn't help.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 11:19 AM
I honestly feel the refs are never "in" our favor (think home cooking), and usually neutral at best, or seemingly a little (not massive; I'm not cryinc conspiracy) against us. I really feel that way.

Why do I watch? I want to see us win despite it.

waterjater
05-31-2004, 01:06 PM
Why do I watch? I want to see us win despite it.

Agree, I think all of us do! Making shots is the way to win despite bad officiating. They can't take the ball out of the basket and thats why I was impressed with Freddie last night!

Water

sc
05-31-2004, 01:19 PM
Isiah thomas badly sprained his ankle in game 6 of the finals, and after 2 days his leg was the size of a freaking watermelon. And yet the Lakers CONTINUED to knock him to the floor play after play.


Isiah did not have a sprained ankle it was a broken foot.

Come on now guys, each team can complain about fouls from the game, that does not equal the task of why one won or lost the game.

It all evens out usually, unless it is Bavetta or Salvatore.

Pistons fans could on here and complain about all the offensive fouls that were not called, Reggie blowing out his ankle and falling down, the horrible call on Corliss when he leved Tinsley on the screen.

The reason the game was lost is the same reason the Pistons lost game 4. The Pacers were too full of themselves and did not come to play.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 01:23 PM
I'm still amazed anyone will try to defened intentionally tripping a player to the floor. That's ALWAYS dirty; whether they're hurt or not.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:25 PM
I'm still amazed anyone will try to defened intentionally tripping a player to the floor. That's ALWAYS dirty; whether they're hurt or not.

trip rip hamilton all night for all I care....when was the last time anybody got INJURED from being tripped anyway? It happens all the time too.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 01:25 PM
I'm still amazed anyone will try to defened intentionally tripping a player to the floor. That's ALWAYS dirty; whether they're hurt or not.

trip rip hamilton all night for all I care....when was the last time anybody got INJURED from being tripped anyway? It happens all the time too.

You're avoiding the fact that it's dirty. Stop rationalizing. "Well, no one gets hurt..."

waterjater
05-31-2004, 01:27 PM
And we should trip Rip :) At least bump him!

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:31 PM
I'm still amazed anyone will try to defened intentionally tripping a player to the floor. That's ALWAYS dirty; whether they're hurt or not.

trip rip hamilton all night for all I care....when was the last time anybody got INJURED from being tripped anyway? It happens all the time too.

You're avoiding the fact that it's dirty. Stop rationalizing. "Well, no one gets hurt..."

How is it dirty then? As far as im concerned, if there isnt a chance of injuring someone, NOTHING is a dirty play.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 01:32 PM
I'm still amazed anyone will try to defened intentionally tripping a player to the floor. That's ALWAYS dirty; whether they're hurt or not.

trip rip hamilton all night for all I care....when was the last time anybody got INJURED from being tripped anyway? It happens all the time too.

You're avoiding the fact that it's dirty. Stop rationalizing. "Well, no one gets hurt..."

How is it dirty then? As far as im concerned, if there isnt a chance of injuring someone, NOTHING is a dirty play.

First of all, I'm not convinced you CAN'T get hurt from that. But more importantly, it's the act that's dirty, not the potential results. The game is basketball, and you trip somebody like a punk. It's just wrong.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:34 PM
I'm still amazed anyone will try to defened intentionally tripping a player to the floor. That's ALWAYS dirty; whether they're hurt or not.

trip rip hamilton all night for all I care....when was the last time anybody got INJURED from being tripped anyway? It happens all the time too.

You're avoiding the fact that it's dirty. Stop rationalizing. "Well, no one gets hurt..."

How is it dirty then? As far as im concerned, if there isnt a chance of injuring someone, NOTHING is a dirty play.

First of all, I'm not convinced you CAN'T get hurt from that. But more importantly, it's the act that's dirty, not the potential results. The game is basketball, and you trip somebody like a punk. It's just wrong.

Is that any different than ron pulling paul's shorts down?

He prevented a fast break oppertunity for Indiana. He didnt do it for fun.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 01:41 PM
I'm still amazed anyone will try to defened intentionally tripping a player to the floor. That's ALWAYS dirty; whether they're hurt or not.

trip rip hamilton all night for all I care....when was the last time anybody got INJURED from being tripped anyway? It happens all the time too.

You're avoiding the fact that it's dirty. Stop rationalizing. "Well, no one gets hurt..."

How is it dirty then? As far as im concerned, if there isnt a chance of injuring someone, NOTHING is a dirty play.

First of all, I'm not convinced you CAN'T get hurt from that. But more importantly, it's the act that's dirty, not the potential results. The game is basketball, and you trip somebody like a punk. It's just wrong.

Is that any different than ron pulling paul's shorts down?

He prevented a fast break oppertunity for Indiana. He didnt do it for fun.

Can you ever just admit something instead of throwing a question back the other way? I'll do what you can't: Directly answer you. Yes, it was different than what Ron did. Ron's was retarded, but how you can equate pulling a guys shorts down to tripping him and making him fall to the floor is ridiculous homerism. Tripping a player is never right; I was livid at Reggie Miller when he tried to trip a Celtic in Game 2 this year. You should never do it. But your homerism has make you try to equate it to one of our players doing something even more petty just to shift the blame. It ain't gonna work.

sc
05-31-2004, 01:56 PM
Actually they are the same, both players could have been injured. Pierce's knees could have buckled from blunt trauma to the running action.

Either way when ever you try to stop someone in motion it is possible and injury could occur.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 01:59 PM
Actually they are the same, both players could have been injured. Pierce's knees could have buckled from blunt trauma to the running action.

Either way when ever you try to stop someone in motion it is possible and injury could occur.

Last I checked, Paul Pierce was standing still when it happened. Ron's not fast enough to do it when Paul is striding around the court. I think he had to stop around a screen, and that's when Ron did it.

And even if you want to call it dirty, I want you Piston fans to say Chauncey was dirty first, because there's absoultely no question what he was trying to do: Make Tinsley fall on his face.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 01:59 PM
Actually they are the same, both players could have been injured. Pierce's knees could have buckled from blunt trauma to the running action.

Either way when ever you try to stop someone in motion it is possible and injury could occur.

Last I checked, Paul Pierce was standing still when it happened. Ron's not fast enough to do it when Paul is striding around the court. I think he had to stop around a screen, and that's when Ron did it.

And even if you want to call it dirty, I want you Piston fans to say Chauncey was dirty first, because there's absoultely no question what he was trying to do: Make Tinsley fall on his face.

He was trying to make tinsley drop the pass, which he did.

Hicks
05-31-2004, 02:01 PM
You people are unbelievable.

:wave:

brichard
05-31-2004, 07:32 PM
Kstat,

I'm going to answer one of the classic questions for you of all time. Is the glass half-full or half-empty? The answer... it all depends on who is pouring. :cool:

Ron Artest has done some blatant things that have caught the ire of the Pacers fans. Getting into a fight with Legendary coach Mel Daniels tops the list. The dude has just made some poor decisions. So, I will acknowledge he has made some dirty plays, yet he has tamed considerably. With his reputation, if he makes that same move than it is played on Sports Center all day with "cheapshot artist" headlines.

This I will guarantee you. If the roles were reversed, and Chauncey had his sore leg pulled and tripped by the opposition, you would be upset indeed. You can rationalize all you want how it is ok "because other people do it," but that is the worst defense of an argument of all time. The reason it is a bad defense is that it doesn't even address the issue. Hey if I rack up as much debt as I can, as long as my neighbor does it... it's ok! I'm exaggerating here, I just don't think it is sound logic to use.

And btw, how did you feel watching what happened to Chauncey last year? How did you feel watching Isiah get setup? Did you just throw up your hands and say "Dems da' breaks boys," or were you ticked off? If you are being honest, I'm sure you had a different perspective. This is a Pacers forum for crying out loud, so I like to share my disgust with other Pacer fans. As you can see, some have agreed and some disagreed. Rarely is a post accepted universally... and I'm ok with that.

I still find it amusing how many people think this thread is blaming the game on officiating. Very few people have stated that at all, but I'm sure we'll see 6 new faces say "The Pacers just lost the game." It is more than obvious to me that the officiating did not lose this game and I can't imagine more than 10% of the Pacers fan base believes it was lost on officiating. Face it, we missed wide open jumpers and Free throws, and as long as the men in black and white weren't guarding us... it's hard to blame them.

The crux of most of this thread is simply saying, they sure didn't help us any.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 08:24 PM
Was I upset? Sure. But there was nobody to be mad AT. Billups wasnt trying to further injure Jamaal's leg, he was trying to stop him from initiating an outlet pass. In that kind of situation, I would consider it pretty petty for me to begrudge another team for trying to win a game. If Jamaal's leg wasnt hurt, this wouldnt even be a TOPIC and everyone here knows it.

kerosene
05-31-2004, 08:47 PM
Okay, so if that happened to Billups in any other game would you call that a dirty play or shrug and say "Fair enough"? That's really what the question is.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 08:49 PM
Okay, so if that happened to Billups in any other game would you call that a dirty play or shrug and say "Fair enough"? That's really what the question is.

If Billups was hurt and he got tripped?

-if it was for no reason, I'd be a little peeved.

-if the guy was simply trying to stop a sure fast break, I'd have no animocity whatsoever. You cant worry about the other guy's injuries when you're trying to win a championship. You have to treat him like everyone else on the court.

ChicagoJ
05-31-2004, 09:21 PM
I guess I do remember yelling at one of Ronnie Garretson's calls, because I yelled that his dad was 10x better as an official. :blush:

Holy cow I thought I heard some Lunatic fan screaming that during the Game :P

Hey, when I'm in the Fieldhouse, I wear my emotions on my sleeve. :D :blush:

Grey
05-31-2004, 09:26 PM
I think it's ridiculous that anyone would expect Chauncy to stop and think, "Maybe I'd better not foul him. He's got a bad leg."

Kstat
05-31-2004, 09:27 PM
I think it's ridiculous that anyone would expect Chauncy to stop and think, "Maybe I'd better not foul him. He's got a bad leg."

Agreed. Maybe the WNBA has a thread like this somewhere....... :P

Hicks
05-31-2004, 10:01 PM
Tripping = Dirty

brichard
05-31-2004, 11:44 PM
I think it's ridiculous that anyone would expect Chauncy to stop and think, "Maybe I'd better not foul him. He's got a bad leg."

Agreed. Maybe the WNBA has a thread like this somewhere....... :P

Well, we will agree to disagree. I think you made a Freudian slip in your thread above when you said "if it was done for no reason" then you would be peeved. The game wasn't on the line and there were a million other fouls that could have been made to prevent that play. If a Piston was on the other end of the floor then one of those guys could foul the shooter. This wasn't the last five seconds of a game in crunch time... this wasn't a must have play.

I'm not asking everybody to take it easy on Jamal, so the WNBA reference is quite lame. How often do you see a guy get his leg pulled in mid air in stride? You probably see that about zero times per game. It is a particularly obvious and dirty foul.

If JT goes for a layup and gets a hard foul... I can live with that as he is on the floor with every other player. If he drives and someone intentionally whacks him in the leg or is conveniently there for him to land on their foot... that is the kind of crap I'm talking about. There is clearly a difference between playing the game hard and playing dirty. If people can't understand the difference it isn't worth discussing.

If yanking a guys leg in mid-air isn't dirty, what is? Taking out a pouch of sand and blowing it in his eyes or maybe supergluing his shoe to the floor? Or maybe a Wile E. Coyote TNT bomb... LOL You have to draw the line somewhere and this is clearly over the line. It's just like a hard foul to the basket. Everybody has to draw that line of when it has crossed over to dirty ball.

Yes, dirty basketball is played every night and Foster and Artest are the usual suspects for the Pacers. However, when they do it I'm objective enough to acknowledge it. Kstat, it is clear to me that you can not do that. Either that or you have a very unique definition of what is dirty and what is not. Of course since you probably grew up with the dirtiest basketball team of all time (which includes Isiah Thomas, and I graduated from IU) perhaps you have a different vantage point.

For the record, I don't think Billups is a dirty player, but that was clearly a dirty play.

Kstat
05-31-2004, 11:49 PM
In case you haven't noticved, EVERY basket in this series is big. Fast breaks are momentum-changing plays, so when you can foul to prevent one you PREVENT ONE. Who's to say the fast break that Billups doesnt prevent wakes Indiana up and sparks them to victory? Momentum can EASILY swing on a play like that.

The only part of Tins that was within Chauncey's reach was his shoe, so thats what he grabbed. It was within the flow of the game. If you cant see that, then YOURE the one not looking at things objectively, not me.

Suaveness
05-31-2004, 11:56 PM
Whatever.

Hicks
06-01-2004, 12:12 AM
The only part of Tins that was within Chauncey's reach was his shoe, so thats what he grabbed. It was within the flow of the game. If you cant see that, then YOURE the one not looking at things objectively, not me.

LAME

brichard
06-01-2004, 07:42 PM
In case you haven't noticved,
thats what he grabbed. It was within the flow of the game.

What in the world does "in the flow of the game" mean? I can hammer somebody driving the lane as long as it is in the flow??? Reggie Miller is too small to grab Rasheed, so he did the next best thing and smashed his foot on his Plantar Fascitis, but it was all cool... it's in the flow!!!

You keep failing to answer a simple question... if grabbing a guys leg in mid stride and making him trip isn't dirty, what is?

I anxiously await your response.

:dance: :pepper: