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View Full Version : Dunleavy says that Offense is Better When he is involved



andreialta
11-29-2007, 04:40 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/SPORTS04/711290464/1062/SPORTS04


PORTLAND, Ore. -- Indiana Pacers (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/SPORTS04/711290464/1062/SPORTS04#) shooting guard Mike Dunleavy says the numbers don't lie.
<!-- PHOTO & FACTBOX --> <!-- ARTICLE SIDEBAR --> <table align="left" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="210"> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2" height="5">http://www.indystar.com/graphics/clear.gif</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <!--MAIN PHOTO--> <table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td>http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20071129&Category=SPORTS04&ArtNo=711290464&Ref=AR&Profile=1062&MaxW=200&Q=60&Border=0 (javascript:NewWindow(760,585,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/misc/photos_single.pbs&IDato=20071129&IKategori=SPORTS04&ID=711290464');)</td> </tr> <tr> <td>http://www.indystar.com/graphics/zoom_photo.gif (javascript:NewWindow(760,585,'/apps/pbcs.dll/misc?url=/misc/photos_single.pbs&IDato=20071129&IKategori=SPORTS04&ID=711290464');)
Looking for space: Indiana's Danny Granger (left) maneuvers against Portland's Martell Webster during the first half of their game Wednesday night. The game was completed too late for results in this edition of The Star. Go to IndyStar.com for details on the outcome. - GREG WAHL-STEPHEN / Associated Press
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<!--MAIN FACTS BOX--> </td> <td width="10">http://www.indystar.com/graphics/clear.gif</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!-- REMAINING TEXT --> Dunleavy, who is having the best season of his six-year career, said the Pacers (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/SPORTS04/711290464/1062/SPORTS04#) are a better team when he has a significant role in the offense.
Dunleavy went into Wednesday's game at Portland averaging 22.4 points, 6.4 rebounds and 2.7 assists and shooting 53 percent in victories this season. He's only averaging 11.0 points and shooting 40 percent in losses
"When I get in the flow offensively, it's pretty clear we're a good team," Dunleavy said. "When I don't, we struggle. Why that happens, I don't know. My approach is the same every night. I think it's pretty clear we're a good team when I can get my hands on the ball."
Dunleavy, who scored a season-high 30 points in a victory over Denver on Tuesday, is at his best when the Pacers push the tempo and there is constant ball movement. He has a hard time finding a rhythm when the Pacers stand around on the perimeter as somebody attempts to go one-on-one with the ball.
"I think he's a playmaker when you have the ball in his hands and let him make some decision," Pacers coach Jim O'Brien said. "I would say the same thing for Marquis Daniels. The load is taken off the Jamaal (Tinsley)."
O'Neal still on sideline
Make it five straight games that Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal has missed.
As he did on Tuesday, O'Neal, out with knee and calf problems, went through an intensive workout before Wednesday's game.
O'Brien wants O'Neal healthy enough to help and also have the offense and defense maintain continuity.
Jeff Foster started in O'Neal's place again.
Can't be frozen
O'Brien raised some eyebrows when he called a timeout after Shawne Williams shot one free throw with 11.4 seconds remaining and the Pacers clinging to a three-point lead in Tuesday's game at Denver.
Opposing teams, not the team at the free throw line, usually call a timeout after the first free throw to try to freeze the shooter. Williams, who was trash talking with several Nuggets (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071129/SPORTS04/711290464/1062/SPORTS04#) players, missed the second free throw.
O'Brien said professional players shouldn't get rattled by a timeout being a called.
"If they are frozen, shame on them," O'Brien said. "The reason behind (the timeout) was they only had a 20-second (timeout) and they still needed a couple of buckets. We had a foul to give and we knew they were going to rush the ball up the court. We wanted to make sure our guys knew where they were taking the foul at."

Peck
11-29-2007, 05:19 AM
He has a hard time finding a rhythm when the Pacers stand around on the perimeter as somebody attempts to go one-on-one with the ball.


Hmmmm........

Very very curious. If this were the old days and this were the bunny I would suspect that old :eek: was getting a message out through the press.

As it stands though I don't believe that Wells has any inclination to be a messanger so I just think he may be stating the obvious.

Either way, is there even one single solitary person on this board who doesn't have a clue as to who that somebody is?

Ragnar
11-29-2007, 07:59 AM
Yeah I read it that way too Peck

Anthem
11-29-2007, 08:20 AM
Either way, is there even one single solitary person on this board who doesn't have a clue as to who that somebody is?
Tinsley. Didn't you see it?

Every time Tinsley went into the post last night, the rest of the team just stopped and waited for him to finish. He eventually started yelling at them about it.

:flirt:

OakMoses
11-29-2007, 11:42 AM
Tinsley. Didn't you see it?

Every time Tinsley went into the post last night, the rest of the team just stopped and waited for him to finish. He eventually started yelling at them about it.

:flirt:

It's both Tinsley and O'Neal at times. JO is a good passer from the high post, but rarely passes out of the low post unless it's one of those give & go, backdoor cut, handoff plays.

Tinsley does a better job of passing once he posts up, but the offense does seem to stall once the ball gets into the paint. I don't know who to blame it on, but it certainly happens. Murphy's often a guilty party as well.

Evan_The_Dude
11-29-2007, 11:57 AM
Murphy's often a guilty party as well.

I think that's by design. The player guarding Murphy (usually a big man) has a choice. They can either leave Murphy open and risk giving up the three, or they can cover Murphy and make it easier for whoever we have posting up to get an inside bucket.

Arcadian
11-29-2007, 12:39 PM
"When I get in the flow offensively, it's pretty clear we're a good team," O'Neal said. "When I don't, we struggle. Why that happens, I don't know. My approach is the same every night. I think it's pretty clear we're a good team when I can get my hands on the ball."

Why isn't there the outrage and pages to follow if this was how the quote appeared?

I like the offense but post play does not equal bad basketball. I don't want to see a donut team out there.

McKeyFan
11-29-2007, 12:55 PM
"When I get in the flow offensively, it's not clear just yet if we're a good team," O'Neal said. "When I don't, we seem to always win. Why that happens, I don't know. My approach is the same every night. I think it's pretty clear we're a mediocre team with a losing record when I can get my hands on the ball."

Fixed.

And that's why there's no outrage when Dunleavey says it.

OakMoses
11-29-2007, 01:00 PM
I think that's by design. The player guarding Murphy (usually a big man) has a choice. They can either leave Murphy open and risk giving up the three, or they can cover Murphy and make it easier for whoever we have posting up to get an inside bucket.

I was referring to the occasional iso/post plays we run for Murphy. Once you give him the ball, it never goes back out.

Arcadian
11-29-2007, 01:02 PM
Are you suggesting we aren't a mediocre team now?

I want players involved in the offense so I'm not going to knock Dunleavy, but this is an average player, known for disappearing rather than winning in the NBA saying this.

naptownmenace
11-29-2007, 01:16 PM
The reason I'm not offended or upset that he's saying this is because the team is 5-0 in games he scores 20 or more.

It's hard to argue with that.

LAPacer
11-29-2007, 01:29 PM
I agree with Dunleavy completely.

McKeyFan
11-29-2007, 01:41 PM
Are you suggesting we aren't a mediocre team now?

Not when Dunleavey takes a lot of shots.

FlavaDave
11-29-2007, 02:04 PM
"The load is taken off the Jamaal (Tinsley)."


Did Jim really say "the Jamaal"?

Sweet, new nickname.

Peck
11-29-2007, 02:09 PM
"When I get in the flow offensively, it's pretty clear we're a good team," O'Neal said. "When I don't, we struggle. Why that happens, I don't know. My approach is the same every night. I think it's pretty clear we're a good team when I can get my hands on the ball."

Why isn't there the outrage and pages to follow if this was how the quote appeared?

I like the offense but post play does not equal bad basketball. I don't want to see a donut team out there.

Well to be honest with you ego did cross my mind when I read that. However, and I'm just guessing here, I bet that Mike was asked this as a question and didn't just make a proclimation.

But again, I am not ignoring your point. I am a little uncomfortable with any player openly stating that.

However, Satan'sfan was dead on with his response.:D

FrenchConnection
11-29-2007, 02:26 PM
I usually hate these types of comments. However, Dunn is a player that has lacked confidence throughout his NBA career so for him to be sticking out his chest a little bit bodes well for us going forward.

mike_D
11-29-2007, 02:44 PM
I don't understand what Dunlevy is trying to say. It's clear Jim O'Brian wants him to score, and Dunlevy now admits he needs the ball to have an impact on this team, why is it then he still comes out every 3rd or 4th game and will go 3-6 from the floor and get 8pts and just never look into the game offensively.

I don't expect him to score 20 points a game every game and I understand he likes to take good shots but if your going to be one of our top 3 players on the offensive end your going to have to create shots and scoring opportunities for yourself and he has shown when he's looking to score he can do that. He needs to be aggressive.There is no other way around that.

I looked at his game log this year and he's had 4 games where got no more then 8 attempts and all were losses and most of the time he hovers between 10-12 shots.When he shoots more then 16 times were 6-0. I would like to see him and Granger in the 15-17 range constantly putting pressure on there opponents to guard them. It's shown when we do that we are a tough team to beat.

Arcadian
11-29-2007, 02:52 PM
Not when Dunleavey takes a lot of shots.

Wow. I actually went and looked up mediocre. This coming from a man with good is the enemy of great on his sig? We are a team that is going to be fighting for a playoff spot in the East. That is mediocre.

BillS
11-29-2007, 03:06 PM
Is it just me or does Wells excel at asking questions to elicit statements that sound brash when taken out of context, then leaving the question out of the subsequent article?

Seems to me we have gotten into this kind of discussion about at least one player each year since he joined the Star.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind someone who can ask those kind of questions, but presenting them as if they were unsolicited statements - particularly when they sound self-serving, which they tend to do - grates on me a bit.

Young
11-29-2007, 03:42 PM
The reason I'm not offended or upset that he's saying this is because the team is 5-0 in games he scores 20 or more.

It's hard to argue with that.

I agree 100%.

I don't know why anyone would be upset with his comments.

No matter if anyone likes it or not Mike is one of our best players. For us to be successful we need him to score, make things happen. We need Jamaal to. We need Danny to. And we need Jermaine to.

I don't care what Dunleavy's record has been in the past. I don't really care what his stats have been in the past. He has had a real good year for us and it's clear that when he plays well so does this team. It isn't rocket science.

Isaac
11-29-2007, 03:57 PM
This is a quote Mike never would have said in Golden State. We are seeing a more aggressive Mike on the court and off the court, and I LOVE it.

He is wrong though, the true telling stat is that the team is 7-0 when I record the games on my DVR.

Arcadian
11-29-2007, 04:17 PM
I really don't have a problem with what Mike said. He should be taking 15 shots a game in this offense.

I just didn't like seeing JO blamed after a quote like that. Mike has had trouble keeping involved in his entire NBA career. This isn't something new that happen when he started playing with JO.

d_c
11-29-2007, 04:19 PM
I usually hate these types of comments. However, Dunn is a player that has lacked confidence throughout his NBA career so for him to be sticking out his chest a little bit bodes well for us going forward.


Dunleavy's problem is that he's always been the type of guy to "Let the game come to him" and nothing else. Now that's great. Nothing wrong with letting the game come to you.

Problem is that in an 82 game season, the game isn't going to automatically come to you in everyone of them. Sometimes, you've got to grab the game by its horns. The really good players can do this. They can impose their will. I've seen Granger do this a few times, which is a good sign.

He's got to find ways of asserting himself even when the game is a little bit out of flow and not everything is "coming to him." You can't expect it to come straight to you 82 times a year. Just doesn't work like that.

Reckoner
11-29-2007, 06:05 PM
I usually hate these types of comments. However, Dunn is a player that has lacked confidence throughout his NBA career so for him to be sticking out his chest a little bit bodes well for us going forward.

Exactly. He's right too.

bellisimo
11-29-2007, 06:33 PM
would anyone call this a chicken or egg scenario?

Is the offense better because DunDun is involved? or does DunDun just benefit when the offense is better due to other factors such as ball movement/etc?

Oneal07
11-29-2007, 07:20 PM
We need 3 consistent scorers. Dunleavy is one of those scorers, so if he's not getting touches, then there's a problem. So I agree what he's saying

pwee31
11-29-2007, 07:28 PM
I don't think he was saying that with an ego. He was just pointing out what we've all noticed this season.

When he's scoring and involved in the offense, the Pacers seem to do well. You can see it in the stats.

I think he was just saying as a self motivation type thing. Pretty much an our team is better when I show up and contribute.

Can't argue with that!

wintermute
11-29-2007, 08:06 PM
i didn't think this deserved it's own thread. another dunleavy article, with more quotes from dun dun

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2007/11/can_dunleavy_keep_this_up.html



Can Dunleavy Keep This Up?

The list of disappointments from the 2002 NBA Draft is longer than Beyonce's weave. Yeah, Yao Ming, Amare Stoudemire, Caron Butler and Carlos Boozer (a second-round pick) have become all-stars, but it's pretty pitiful when three of the top six picks are already out of the league after just five years - Jay Williams (No.2) and Dajuan Wagner (No. 6) both had unfortunate health problems; Nickoloz Tskitishvili (No. 5) was just plain terrible.

Some people probably thought the No. 3 pick from that draft was out of the league, too, since Mike Dunleavy Jr. had done little to distinguish himself as any more than the son of the coach of the Los Angeles Clippers. Dunleavy wasn't worthless his first five seasons in the NBA, spent mostly at Golden State, just not somebody worthy of such a high draft pick.

This season, his first full season with the Indiana Pacers, Dunleavy is averaging career highs in points (16.6), rebounds (6.1), field goal percentage (48) and three-point percentage (39.3). He is shooting with confidence, attacking the basket with aggression. Who is this guy?

Not the trembly-kneed guy who often looked afraid to shoot. Not the tentative guy Baron Davis sometimes ignored when he was handing out assists. And certainly not the confused guy who had no sense of who he was as a player. That guy is gone - at least through the first month of the regular season.

"My career - it's alive! It's alive!"" He tracked down the ball. Did Mike Dunleavy finally find his game, too? (AP Photo/David Zalubowski)

Dunleavy still isn't putting up the numbers you'd expect from the franchise players typically selected at the third slot - he never will, and there is no guarantee that he will be able to keep up this pace for the rest of the season. But Dunleavy is serviceable. And, he is finally showing what he is capable of when he's in a system that complements his strengths, and for a coach (Jim O'Brien) who has confidence in his abilities.

"The stuff he brings to the table," Dunleavy recently said about O'Brien, "fits well for me, for this group of players and this team. We're not just standing around and watching one or two guys play."

The Pacers (8-8) appear to be in the process of phasing out Jermaine O'Neal, whose back-to-the-basket game doesn't fit with O'Brien's Rick Pitino-influenced, see-the-three-be-the-three offense. Dunleavy, Danny Granger (career-high 18.4 points) and point guard Jamaal Tinsley (13.9 points, career-high 8.3 assists) are thriving. It might not be a coincidence that Indiana is 5-1 without O'Neal this season. It is 3-7 with him. (You get the feeling that O'Neal will have to turn into an overdribbling, gunslinging Antoine Walker to blend in better).

O'Neal has missed the past five games, and the Pacers have lost once. They've pulled off back-to-back road wins against the Denver Nuggets and Portland Trail Blazers this week, with Dunleavy combining for 50 points and 15 rebounds in those victories.

He had 20 points and 11 rebounds in Portland. His 30-point game on Tuesday in Denver - where he outscored Carmelo Anthony and Allen Iverson - was just two points shy of his career high. He's already had five games with at least 20 points this season. He never had more than 13 in any season with the Warriors.

Over his past five games, Dunleavy is averaging 18.6 points, 6 rebounds, shooting 57 percent from the field and 47 (9 for 19) percent from beyond the three-point line. It's the kind of production that Warriors general manager Chris Mullin thought he'd get out of Dunleavy when he handed him a ridiculous (at the time) five-year, $44-million extension in 2005.

When you look at Dunleavy's history in Golden State, it's easy to understand how he often looked defeated and depressed. The Warriors had three different coaches - Eric Musselman, Mike Montgomery and Don Nelson - his first five seasons. Each coach had his own style and suggestion on what kind of player Dunleavy should be. He's 6-foot-9 with a decent skill set, but Dunleavy has always been known as player who can do a number of things okay, but nothing exceptionally well. He was tried out as a point forward, a slashing swingman, and a designated shooter. He could never find a role that fit him.

"There wasn't a set system year in, year out that I could get used to," Dunleavy said. "There was so much change. That made it real tough. Every coach was different, from what position I was going to play, to how to shoot a jump shot. Maybe that was my fault for listening. I want to be a coachable player. I always did what they asked of me."

It got him nowhere and nothing but grief. Fans in the Bay Area had turned on him completely. He would routinely get booed at home games and his body language cried out for a change of scenery. Then, he finally got his wish when he was shipped to Indiana as part of an eight-player trade in January. "For whatever reason, it wasn't the right fit for me out there. I felt that way from Day One," Dunleavy said about Golden State. "When the trade happened, [Pacers CEO] Donnie [Walsh] gave me the call and I just felt relieved. I was just happy to move on."

The Warriors were glad to move on as well. Especially after Golden State's new acquisitions, Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington, helped the organization end a 13-year playoff drought and sparked an improbable run that included a first-round upset of the 67-win Dallas Mavericks. The Pacers, however, finished the season 15-29 - including an 11-game losing streak - after the trade and failed to make the playoffs for the first time in 10 years.

O'Brien said Dunleavy was one of the main reasons he took the job in Indiana. "[Troy] Murphy, Dunleavy, Ike Diogu, people looked at what happened with the trade last year - the Pacers went down and I think they kind of pinned it on them. I think that was a mistake," O'Brien said. "I think when all is said and done, people that have an interest in the Indiana Pacers are going to be real happy with that trade."

Dunleavy already is. "All in all, where I'm at right now, I'm happy," Dunleavy said. "I think as a professional athlete, I never lost confidence. I may have been uncomfortable or unsure in situations. But in terms of my abilities, I never lost confidence. I always knew that if I was in the right situation, the right scenario, everything would be great."


check out the second photo in the link ;)

ajbry
11-29-2007, 08:14 PM
That photo is classic.

And I think it's a bit premature for Dun to say these things as the sample size under JOB is still relatively small. Considering he's always faded after November basically, he needs to prove he's worthy of getting involved every night offensively.

Anthem
11-29-2007, 08:18 PM
check out the second photo in the link ;)
http://www.informationleafblower.com/blog/archives/owwquitit.jpg

Wow. :laugh: Had forgotten that.

pwee31
11-29-2007, 08:20 PM
I sent a question for Dun Dun a couple days before the Nugget game about why he was so passive? Pacers.com never put it up, so he probably didn't get it, but it's cool to wonder!

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 02:44 AM
It's both Tinsley and O'Neal at times. JO is a good passer from the high post, but rarely passes out of the low post unless it's one of those give & go, backdoor cut, handoff plays.

Tinsley does a better job of passing once he posts up, but the offense does seem to stall once the ball gets into the paint. I don't know who to blame it on, but it certainly happens. Murphy's often a guilty party as well.
I can't agree that JO only hits GnG/cuts. He's big on skips to the wide 3. Often those shooters leave him begging for the assist, but he gets it to them.

As for standing around, give me a break Peck. You want me to throw Jackson under the bus, I'll do it in a heartbeat for this rant. Jackson was one of the worst at killing ball rotation when he would go into face-up/jab step time. Croshere, yep. Etc.

Right now with JO out you still see it. Dun has had bad games without JO there. What about DANNY driving off a one on one effort, or Tins (loves to call his own number into the post), or Rush, or TROY.

Hey, how about Mike himself going behind the back and then floundering for the ugly TO last night even.

This team stood around with JO out previously too. Even with Reggie in his final season you saw passing around the rim from standing still guy to standing still guy ala NCAA crap ball.

Going into the post isn't "standing around". I'm actually just sick of this silly complaint. It's non-sensical. It makes Jabbar, Wilt and Hakeem apparent detriments to their team. They worked post ups plenty. The difference is the a-holes around them didn't stand and watch.

The ball can halt ANYWHERE on the court, and it happens just as much or more on the arc when guys start looking to make a move, even calling for a clear out to do so.



Either way, is there even one single solitary person on this board who doesn't have a clue as to who that somebody is?
Just you...

"I think he's a playmaker when you have the ball in his hands and let him make some decision," Pacers coach Jim O'Brien said. "I would say the same thing for Marquis Daniels. The load is taken off the JamaalIt starts with a J, but it's not Jermaine. At least that line sounds more like move the ball from Tins to Dun, and the additional mention of part-time PG Daniels reinforces the idea. I don't really agree with JO or Tins or any of this angle, as the next post will show.

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 02:54 AM
I don't think he was saying that with an ego. He was just pointing out what we've all noticed this season.

When he's scoring and involved in the offense, the Pacers seem to do well. You can see it in the stats.

I think he was just saying as a self motivation type thing. Pretty much an our team is better when I show up and contribute.

Can't argue with that!
Away from the JO ranting, this is how I read it too. Not only that, but I just mentioned this exact thing in the Portland post game (or was it Denver?). When Dun is involved it makes everything better. He's not being ignored or under the mythical (as in silly) "freeze out", nor does he refuse to get involved. It's just the flow of the game, sometimes it goes away from him and too Danny or Troy or Shawne or Tins or whatever and suddenly Dun is just out of the loop and not impacting the game.


The most brilliant stretch of ball vs Denver was the 15 point +/- run in the mid-3rd which was driven almost totally by the combo of Tins, Dun and Foster. Coincidentally they are the 3 guys who most clearly understand the system and how to make it work.

Elgin56
11-30-2007, 12:06 PM
Going into the post isn't "standing around". I'm actually just sick of this silly complaint. It's non-sensical. It makes Jabbar, Wilt and Hakeem apparent detriments to their team. They worked post ups plenty. The difference is the a-holes around them didn't stand and watch.


Are you really calling Pacer players a-holes? If not please explain.