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View Full Version : Post Game Thread #16 Pacers beat Portland, back to .500



Evan_The_Dude
11-29-2007, 01:35 AM
Strong win, respectable defense, the team is "getting it". I think one of the keys to our turn around has been O'Brien shortening the rotation a bit and playing the starters more minutes.

Eindar
11-29-2007, 01:36 AM
Strong win, respectable defense, the team is "getting it". I think one of the keys to our turn around has been O'Brien shortening the rotation a bit and playing the starters more minutes.

I think the key has been no JO.

sweabs
11-29-2007, 01:39 AM
The most fun I've had as a Pacer fan in quite some time.

The Portland Trailblazers are a very good team when they're playing at home as well. This was such a big win. The second game of a back to back, on the road, with the first one in Denver and high altitude.

When the team plays the way it has for the past few games, though, it's just so much better from the fan's perspective. I'm not going to any one thing in particular...but it's a lot of fun.

Hoop
11-29-2007, 01:48 AM
We didn't play very well at times, but that was a huge win!

Very winnable game coming up at Seattle. We can end the first month of the season with a winning record.

:dance:

aceace
11-29-2007, 01:48 AM
I posted this on the Warriorettes forum...

Quote by me: Dunleavy another 20 pt 11 rbd 2as 3 steals in Pacers win over Portland. He's shooting +50%fd +40%3pt +85%line. Why did Mullin trade him.

Not trying to be a troll but they bash him so bad there.... I just feel as though I got to get his back on this. Is this wrong? Should I quit.... I mean Mike D is a big reason why we are winning.

I know its wrong but but but....

Nice win by the Pacers tonight we seem to be weathering these storms now. Danny was great on defense. Foster autographed the glass after the game was over... Diener swept the floor and Rush had no bricks left in his bucket...
I will give Rush credit he always looks like he's playing hard and 4-10 is not terrible. Harrison picked up a foul boarding the plane. Good night all in all.

LAPacer
11-29-2007, 01:58 AM
Good win. I don't know how we had the game close after the first half of ball we played. Very good win.

Evan_The_Dude
11-29-2007, 01:58 AM
Warriorettes? Is that like a forum for the female Warrior fans?

Arcadian
11-29-2007, 02:00 AM
Yeah, I don't want to see a post by a Warrior's fan everytime Jackson has a good game.

TheDon
11-29-2007, 02:02 AM
In other news I guess Lebron sprained one of his fingers and set out the rest of the game and losing. ESPN was showing stats before and after lebron in that game, and it was pretty bad. No surprise though he is to that team what Kobe used to be for the Lakers (kobe has a slightly better supporting cast).

Oneal07
11-29-2007, 02:04 AM
Starting to show some consistency. . on the back to backs again!!! Great game. Jamaal Tinsley played wicked

andreialta
11-29-2007, 02:24 AM
DUN DA DUN DA DUN DA DUN DA DUN

agressive. played 37 mins!!


Granger.. good game tonight. expect that from him every game

Foster.. woot woot.. now startin to be a legit center?? hmmh

Big 3 of the pacers rite now

Grange, Dun, Fost

dohman
11-29-2007, 03:12 AM
I am pissed right now. I setup my DVR to record the game and when I get home I guess I tried to record the wrong feed because it is just a blank feed :(

Moses
11-29-2007, 03:30 AM
I'm very happy that he finally shortened the rotation. I think that has been one of the main reasons the Pacers have done well as of late.

Peck
11-29-2007, 05:07 AM
I'm very happy that he finally shortened the rotation. I think that has been one of the main reasons the Pacers have done well as of late.

I agree with the outcome but disagree with the actual thought.

The only reason our rotation has shortened, IMO, is because some of our backups that I think the team was counting on have given us nothing.

We have no backup point guard. That scares the crap out of me.

Even if Jamaal didn't have a history of injury's or illness I just don't see how the guy can go 82 games at around 40 min. a night.

Somehow, someway we have got to find a backup point guard. Quis is a nice idea but just like tonight, he wasn't able to go in the second half because of pain the knee.

Also I have a real problem with the shortened rotation when O'Neal & Diagu eventually return.

Harrison is playing the most consistant ball of his career right now and I don't want to see him go back to DNP-CD's or 5-7 min. a game.

Shawne, Jeff & Troy are going to be struggling for min. as well.

I know everybody is going to say that they will be happy to have Troy be the one sitting and he has had a couple of lousy games. But let's not forget the guy was the catalyst in beating the Mavs. and has had some very key contributions in other games as well.

Shawne has earned some time on the floor and Jeff Foster has never been better.

I just don't see how a shortened rotation is going to work in the long run.

My biggest fear is that we will go back to our complimentry 38 min. a game for J.O. and everybody else will struggle for scraps.

wintermute
11-29-2007, 05:48 AM
Yeah, I don't want to see a post by a Warrior's fan everytime Jackson has a good game.

agreed. in truth, the warriors may have more to brag about. jackson is averaging 22, 6, and 4 in 7 games, and i believe they've gone 6-1 in those games.

the trade helped both teams. why can't we just leave it at that? :shrug:



The only reason our rotation has shortened, IMO, is because some of our backups that I think the team was counting on have given us nothing.

We have no backup point guard. That scares the crap out of me.


agreed there. diener has been disappointing to say the least. and like everyone else i'm wondering why owens can't get any minutes.

keith mcleod is still out there unemployed. he's not the greatest, but he was a capable backup and sometime starter for us last year. i'm guessing he doesn't want to play for the minimum though, which is probably why he's still unsigned despite several teams hurting at pg.

boykins also is still out there, but he reportedly is looking for mid level money. anyway he's not a good fit.

Rajah Brown
11-29-2007, 08:24 AM
rcarey-

I'm with ya. I haven't enjoyed watching Pacers b-ball as much as the
last week or so since either the early season stretch just prior The
Brawl or right after the suspensions when JT and Fred Joned led that
undermanned bunch on a 4-5 game win streak.

When all 5 guys on the court are unselfish, can shoot it (well, other
than Jeff), handle it, pass it and are willing defenders, the game
of hoops is a beautiful thing.

Elgin56
11-29-2007, 09:02 AM
I think the key has been no JO.


Shhh! Someone may hear you and start a thread defending JO and the beat goes on.

Unclebuck
11-29-2007, 09:09 AM
What I liked the best about last night was the Pacers fought, they competed, they really wanted to win the game - you could see that in the last few minutes - or really the whole game.

Another thing that is related to that is this team might not be the most talented team in the league, they often make mistakes - a lot of mistakes in all phases of the game - but I'm starting to see a team that is playing hard for almost the whole game - and I think the biggest reason why they have started winning lately is because they have learned they need to play hard for the whole game - and they seem to be playing harder for longer then they were a few weeks back.

Following this team and rooting for them is different this season - these wild swings within a game are killing me - but I think that is what this team is and is going to be - a lot of 16-5 runs both ways. But at least I have confidence in them that they will find a way to win - unless they are playing a team that is simply better than they are.

Looking at the next two games - a split would be very nice, a sweep would be incredible - but most teams on a 4-6 game road trip play one really bad game - so I sort of expect that maybe Sunday - but we'll see if they are developing some mental toughness.

Overall though I like the physical and mental toughness that I've seen lately. It seems to me that the Pacers are in better physical condition than most other teams. Mentally I also am starting to see some toughness developing (last year they were horrible in this dept).

Foster last night was fantastic - he was all over the court and he is proving once again just how valuable he is

OnlyPacersLeft
11-29-2007, 09:52 AM
when ike comes back does this make JO expendable? I think it might...and I'm the biggest maine fan there is :(

Anthem
11-29-2007, 10:08 AM
when ike comes back does this make JO expendable? I think it might...and I'm the biggest maine fan there is :(
There aren't a lot of moves out there w/ Jermaine that make us a better team.

Rinuven
11-29-2007, 10:20 AM
when ike comes back does this make JO expendable? I think it might...and I'm the biggest maine fan there is :(

I don't think so. If anything I think this game showed us how we miss a strong offensive post threat. It really would take some pressure off our shooters. Too many forced shots against a long and athletic portland team. We also just flat out shot poorly as a team in stretches. I think JO will open up the outside a bit in those possessions where we weren't able to get out and run. The big thing is the guys will have to continue to move and not dump it into him and stand around.

Anthem
11-29-2007, 10:29 AM
I don't think so. If anything I think this game showed us how we miss a strong offensive post threat. It really would take some pressure off our shooters. Too many forced shots against a long and athletic portland team. We also just flat out shot poorly as a team in stretches. I think JO will open up the outside a bit in those possessions where we weren't able to get out and run. The big thing is the guys will have to continue to move and not dump it into him and stand around.
I really missed him on the defensive end. Harrison played well, and Foster was out of his mind, but I could have lived without Murphy.

Unclebuck
11-29-2007, 10:30 AM
Jeff Foster has never been better.



I just needed to quote that - I agree by the way.

But to your larger point, I also agree, I think O'Brien shortened his rotation not because he wanted to, but because he had no choice really.

No doubt Harrison is playing the most consistant he ever has, but I have my doubts if he can keep it up physically or emotionally - When JO and Ike come back I see David only playing spot minutes.

OakMoses
11-29-2007, 11:01 AM
Jamaal Tinsley played wicked

Only for about the last 5 minutes or so. He hit two out of his last three shots, until then he was 2-13. His assist to TO ratio was also less than 2/1, which is subpar. He came up huge in the end of the game, but up until then he was average or below. It was the worst shot selection I've seen from him this year, and Steve Blake (the quickest PG in the NBA) blew right by him whenever he wanted.

The Pacers won this game because of Granger, Dunleavy, and Foster. All three played very well.

I thought the team played well with Rush on the court.

Murphy looked bad. I think he fits our offensive system, but not the defense. He's much more of a defensive liability than even Dun or Diener.

I agree that back-up PG is our major weakness. Whoever said something about Keith McLeod a couple days back might have been right on.

Oh, and once JO comes back I think we see a lot more of Danny and Shawne at the 2 and 3, a lot less of Tins and Marquis on the floor together, and Harrison and Murphy being used depending on matchups.

The Blazers are my favorite Western team, but I was not terribly impressed with them last night. They've got 3 really good players right now: Roy, Aldridge and Jack. I don't know what it was, but I was not impressed with Outlaw even though he had probably his best game ever. I'm also not really impressed with Webster. I can't put my finger on why I don't like those guys, something about their demeanor just says to me, we're not winning players.

I wonder if Portland would be interested in JO. I doubt it, but they've got the combination of big contracts (La Frentz, Pryzbilla, Miles) and young talent (Jack, Fernandez, Rodriguez, etc) to make a deal possible. If we could get Jack, Fernandez, and big man salary filler...

FrenchConnection
11-29-2007, 11:16 AM
Only for about the last 5 minutes or so. He hit two out of his last three shots, until then he was 2-13. His assist to TO ratio was also less than 2/1, which is subpar. He came up huge in the end of the game, but up until then he was average or below. It was the worst shot selection I've seen from him this year, and Steve Blake (the quickest PG in the NBA) blew right by him whenever he wanted.

The Pacers won this game because of Granger, Dunleavy, and Foster. All three played very well.

I thought the team played well with Rush on the court.

Murphy looked bad. I think he fits our offensive system, but not the defense. He's much more of a defensive liability than even Dun or Diener.

I agree that back-up PG is our major weakness. Whoever said something about Keith McLeod a couple days back might have been right on.

Oh, and once JO comes back I think we see a lot more of Danny and Shawne at the 2 and 3, a lot less of Tins and Marquis on the floor together, and Harrison and Murphy being used depending on matchups.

The Blazers are my favorite Western team, but I was not terribly impressed with them last night. They've got 3 really good players right now: Roy, Aldridge and Jack. I don't know what it was, but I was not impressed with Outlaw even though he had probably his best game ever. I'm also not really impressed with Webster. I can't put my finger on why I don't like those guys, something about their demeanor just says to me, we're not winning players.

I wonder if Portland would be interested in JO. I doubt it, but they've got the combination of big contracts (La Frentz, Pryzbilla, Miles) and young talent (Jack, Fernandez, Rodriguez, etc) to make a deal possible. If we could get Jack, Fernandez, and big man salary filler...

I would think that you would have to take Miles in that deal, and Miles is the type of player that this franchise cannot afford to take on at this time.

naptownmenace
11-29-2007, 11:17 AM
Great team win. The defense in the first have was suspect but much better in the second half.

Dunleavy was big once again and the team is now 5-0 when he scores 20 points or more. He kept the Pacers in the game in the first half and he's playing more like he did at Duke - moving without the ball and cutting through the lane to get open. He hit the boards like a madman and his defense was pretty good too. I've always liked MDJ and he's really proving that he is exactly the type of player this team needs.

Although Murphy was terrible defensively, he played a big role in the 3rd by hitting those 2 three pointers and pulling down 2 rebounds. He hit some key shots in the 3rd against Denver too, so I'm not as down on him as a lot of you are.

I was really worried that Danny wasn't going to come bk into the game after he and Roy banged knees in that 3rd quarter but he came back better than before. I don't know what they did to him in the lockerroom but they should do it before every game. He killed the Blazers on both ends of the floor.

Good win, like I said and the Pacers are doing much better during this tough stretch of games than I even thought they would. They have 2 more winnable games and they owe the Clippers one.

Tom White
11-29-2007, 11:32 AM
I only got to see the first half of the game (Morning comes too early sometimes.), so I can't comment on the team's overall play. I will say this, though. When you think of different player's shortcomings in this game, you have to remember how much energy they used up the night before in Denver. That was a high tempo, high effort game. I'm sure tired legs and aching bodies had something to do with some of the sub-par play at times.

Considering that, it looks to me like the Pacers did quite well for themselves last night.

Rinuven
11-29-2007, 11:57 AM
Dunleavy was big once again and the team is now 5-0 when he scores 20 points or more.

I didn't realize that. I think that in itself clearly shows how important an aggressive Dunleavy is to this team.

heywoode
11-29-2007, 12:37 PM
I don't think so. If anything I think this game showed us how we miss a strong offensive post threat. It really would take some pressure off our shooters. Too many forced shots against a long and athletic portland team. We also just flat out shot poorly as a team in stretches. I think JO will open up the outside a bit in those possessions where we weren't able to get out and run. The big thing is the guys will have to continue to move and not dump it into him and stand around.

The only problem with this is that JO isn't that big of a post player anymore. He stands outside and shoots jumpers too...Maybe it's just because he isn't 100%, or maybe he's just not going to be dominant anymore. If it is the former, and he can get back to having a strong post game, then yes, he helps this team. If he's going to be another jump shooter out there, I don't need him on the Pacers anymore...

Evan_The_Dude
11-29-2007, 12:46 PM
We have no backup point guard. That scares the crap out of me.

Even if Jamaal didn't have a history of injury's or illness I just don't see how the guy can go 82 games at around 40 min. a night.

Somehow, someway we have got to find a backup point guard. Quis is a nice idea but just like tonight, he wasn't able to go in the second half because of pain the knee.

Also I have a real problem with the shortened rotation when O'Neal & Diagu eventually return.


Mike Dunleavy can play the point if worst comes to worst. He did it a bit in Golden State and was pretty effective there. If it comes down to it, Dunleavy can start beside Tinsley, then Williams can spell Dunleavy a rest so that Dunleavy can come back in and spell Tinsley a rest. We can be creative in that sort of way -- if it comes down to that.

BillS
11-29-2007, 12:54 PM
What I liked the best about last night was the Pacers fought, they competed, they really wanted to win the game - you could see that in the last few minutes - or really the whole game.

Another thing that is related to that is this team might not be the most talented team in the league, they often make mistakes - a lot of mistakes in all phases of the game - but I'm starting to see a team that is playing hard for almost the whole game - and I think the biggest reason why they have started winning lately is because they have learned they need to play hard for the whole game - and they seem to be playing harder for longer then they were a few weeks back.

This is essentially what I wanted to say about both of the last two games. The tendency of this team to let the opponent back in is often a feature of young teams, but the willingness to continue fighting once the other team has their foot back in the door is key.

I worry about JO's return, but my hope is that the reason he is laying out for so long is that JOB realizes JO will be totally ineffective without the lift needed to score in the paint. If JO comes back too early, not only is he slow but he is ineffective. The question mark is whether he is able to be effective at all, especially on nights where the perimeter offense has bogged down. Currently, the strategy seems to be to open the middle and get someone within short jumper distance. With JO, I'd be afraid that the proper strategy (put him in the post and lane and let him put the ball in the hoop) simply won't work because he isn't able to carry it out - and we know JO is not any good when the middle is completely opened and he is too far outside the lane.

BobbyMac
11-29-2007, 01:03 PM
I don't think so. If anything I think this game showed us how we miss a strong offensive post threat. It really would take some pressure off our shooters. Too many forced shots against a long and athletic portland team. We also just flat out shot poorly as a team in stretches. I think JO will open up the outside a bit in those possessions where we weren't able to get out and run. The big thing is the guys will have to continue to move and not dump it into him and stand around.

Your last statement is the key.....too many times in the past the P's have just stood around and watched JO when he got doubled, or tripled. I don't believe that Obie will put up with that!

oneofthesedays
11-29-2007, 01:30 PM
That was a great game to watch. Congrats on the early success guys.

ABADays
11-29-2007, 01:37 PM
I was able to hear about the first 10 minutes of the game. It comes on 11 hours into my 12 hour shift with an 11 hour time difference. Too much. Bah to West Coast games!

CableKC
11-29-2007, 01:38 PM
I posted this on the Warriorettes forum...

Quote by me: Dunleavy another 20 pt 11 rbd 2as 3 steals in Pacers win over Portland. He's shooting +50%fd +40%3pt +85%line. Why did Mullin trade him.

Not trying to be a troll but they bash him so bad there.... I just feel as though I got to get his back on this. Is this wrong? Should I quit.... I mean Mike D is a big reason why we are winning.
In all fairness....you failed to mention the few games where Dunleavy completely disappeared from the offensive end. ;)

A little OT here...but I really hope that he is able to show the Warrior fans what they missed out on when we return to Oakland to play them in mid-January.

But I have a bad feeling that Dunleavy is going to either be inconsistent or worse...won't show up offensively. I get the sense that there is some level of confidence that he lacks at times which I think contributes to his inconsistencies and returning to Oakland ( where he was booed consistently night in and night out ) maybe too much for him.

CableKC
11-29-2007, 01:58 PM
It's been mentioned here that one of the keys in winning this game was that JO'B shortened the rotation.

Given the way that this offense runs....which IMHO requires fresh legs with all the running up and down on offense/defense ( especially during the 3rd/4th QTRs ), I don't think that it's a good idea to have a 8 man rotation with solid minutes going to key players.

Over the last 7 games ( after the 6 game skid ):

- Tinsley has played an average of 37 mpg
- Foster has played an average of 31 mpg

I know that some of this maybe a result of the lack of options at the PG and Big Man rotation.....but as Peck mentioned.....I too am concerned that Tinsley can't ( and shouldn't ) keep up this pace for an entire season....which goes the same for Foster. If there is nothing that can be done to remedy ( at least ) the backup PG situation to get Tinsley down to a more reasonable 32 mpg and Marquis isn't an option at the backup PG spot.....JO'B should either give Deiner/Owens more backup PG minutes ( so that they can at least get used to being on the court with the team ) or they should ( for enough minutes to give Tinsley rest ) have Dunleavy running the Point-Forward spot with an "All-Forward" lineup of Shawne ( or Marquis....if he is available ), Granger, Murphy and Harrison ( at the Center spot ). The bottomline is that even if we are winning with Tinsley playing 37+ minutes a game....I want to ensure that he is available for the duration of an entire season...not just for 3/4 of the season.

With the strides that we have seen in Harrison and Shawne....we should take advantage of our depth and continue with the 10-man rotation. Doing so would cut down the minutes of key players ( that have shown a propensity to get injured ) and keep us fresh for the duration of the season instead of burning the key 8-man rotation out before the ASB.

pacerDU
11-29-2007, 02:01 PM
On a side note, I had to laugh at what one of the Portland commentators said:

"When you need something big and dirty done, Jeff Foster's your man"

LOL, that's one of those moments you think to yourself; "What did I just say?!?"...

OakMoses
11-29-2007, 02:09 PM
On a side note, I had to laugh at what one of the Portland commentators said:

"When you need something big and dirty done, Jeff Foster's your man"

LOL, that's one of those moments you think to yourself; "What did I just say?!?"...

Did anyone else have to watch the Portland broadcast of the games? Their play-by-play guy is good, but their color man is awful. He's the most annoying broadcaster I've heard in a long, long time. I can't remember many specifics. He did refer to David Harrison as "looking like a serial killer with that beard," say that Sergio Rodriguez's longer hair "makes him look more European," say "David Harrison is crazy," refer to Raef LaFrentz as "a guy who can go in and bang with guys like Foster and Murphy", and harp on the fact that the Pacers foul a lot. When we had the Quis, Dun, Danny, Shawne lineup in at the end of the game, he said "Now they've got Dunleavy playing PF," even though Dun was guarding Steve Blake at the time.

OK, maybe I could remember more than I thought.

BoomBaby33
11-29-2007, 02:14 PM
Good "gut it out" victory IMO. Coming off the long late game in Mile High, with such a huge emotional game ending in Denver.

Last year, this team would have layed down and let Portland win.

I haven't done it much because I was a RC supporter (still am to an extent X's and O's wise), but I gotta give props to Obie for keeping the team confident.

Downside of this game to me was Murphy starting again after Shawne had 21 / 11 while starting. But like I said, they gutted it out, and thats what ya gotta do on back to backs.

Tinsley again looked like a real point guard. Hes winning me back. Someone else mentioned us not having a good backup PG, I think Quisy does a pretty good job, but he was limited due to his knee again. Deiner means well, but I think the game is still a little above his level of play. He can get better though IMO - hes "spunky". Not necessarily the place here, but I gotta inject this comment here to. I think we could address some needs like a backup PG and a shorter contract by trading JO, also pickup a better backup shooting guard than Rush - hes too inconsistent. Except last night though, he did looked better.

Looking forward, we cant have a letdown against Seattle. A loss to them would be a step backwards after these 2 huge wins. Maintain the intensity, one game at a time.

Go Pacers!

Trader Joe
11-29-2007, 02:21 PM
It was the worst shot selection I've seen from him this year, and Steve Blake (the quickest PG in the NBA) blew right by him whenever he wanted.



You're gonna have to come up with some proof for that second part because the stats certainly don't back you up and I remember Blake beating Tins maybe once last night. Blakes stat line is 0/5 from the field, 5 assists and a pair of turnovers. I don't see how that consititutes Blake blowing right by him whenever he wanted. In fact I think that comment is pure BS.

Pacemaker
11-29-2007, 02:49 PM
Jamaal "THE MOTOR" Tinsley is KING. TRADE JO!!!!

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 02:30 AM
Finally I saw some signs of offensive movement that we saw vs Utah. I was really starting to worry that it was a total fluke. Now I can hope that it's just sputtering to a start as guys figure the whole thing out.

You could see this being a schedule loss sort of, but really even as a 5-2 home team the Blazers just aren't good. .500 or better teams have to get wins like this. I'm not dismissing the win, it does go toward showing that they are much better than they ended last season playing.


Tinsley still drives the offense. He's frustrating as heck, you wish he could hit some of those looks because he's often open and not just from 3, but when he's tossing out brilliant dimes and forcing the action upcourt you have to love him.

I keep mentioning it and will again, Tinsley is moving great WITHOUT THE BALL TOO. On offense Tinsley is playing very inspired ball, there is no other way to say it. Wreckless, sure, but also full of life and interest. I see why Rick tried to reign in the recklessness, but I also see why you like it unleashed, especially with the rest of the normally stagnant offense.


Redd, here it comes.....Granger is Pippen. Did you see that monster block? Did you see a couple of his assists? His improving drives? I'm extremely impressed with the forward progress he's been making just this season. Yes it's in starts and fits, surges of great play with spots of dud efforts. But the mean is constantly rising and he's quickly establishing himself as the best Pacer.

Shawne, see Danny. More problems for him still, but tons of great moments. This was a bit of dud night, though JOB also planted him on the bench more than last game.


Foster - bottom line, he and Tinsley are playing the most consistently "correct" in JOB's system. The movement between those 2 is that of vets that know each other very well and understand what they are trying to do. One more reason you'd like to see JO out there too (as the other long time Pacer). And I mean on offense as much or more than defense. Jeff is passing well, moving without the ball well, just playing really smart ball.

Mike - well when he's active and involved everything goes much better. He has problems one on one on defense, and sometimes he forces some bad action on offense, but within the team concept he's vital most of the time. Loved his game here.


David - his box scores don't impress yet, but they blow away what he was doing. More than that you have to give it up for his effort. He's controlling himself much more, and in this game he caught a couple of early fouls and instead of going out of it he created a steal, then spinted out ahead of Tinsley only to have to bust it back after Tins threw the pass away, and then got a block (IIRC). That's how Dave impresses you. I noticed that he also seemed to do better at keeping his feet on the ground on defense. More than any players David and Danny seem to be improving their game the most this season.


Quis - I hope it was just his knee that kept him out. I didn't see why Rush was getting Quis PT otherwise.


Troy - ugh. He's busting it, but he's just not getting it done most of the time. His defense is painful and while he does have some offensive moves inside the arc he's almost worthless if the 3 isn't falling. I don't see any reason to start him at this point.

I feel much, much more comfortable with Jeff out there, and at this point I'd rather see David too. You put Ike and JO back in the rotation and I see no reason for Troy to play at all.


Rush and Diener - more meh. Rush missed some open shots and overall didn't make much of an impression. He did ride Tins-Dun-Jeff in the 3rd to a great +/- on the night.

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 02:33 AM
Strong win, respectable defense, the team is "getting it". I think one of the keys to our turn around has been O'Brien shortening the rotation a bit and playing the starters more minutes.
I agree. My concern is burning them out with this playing style. I think partially they are getting into JOB shape which is helping, but that's a lot of minutes in an uptempo style.

They need Ike, JO and either Quis at PG or a PG that can keep things moving while Tins rests. You'd like to avoid those 40+ nights I think. Topping out at 34-35 with most guys at 28-32 would be the best possible situation IMO. Obviously Rush, Diener and sometimes the inconsistency of Shawne is hurting the bench.

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 02:51 AM
I posted this on the Warriorettes forum...

Quote by me: Dunleavy another 20 pt 11 rbd 2as 3 steals in Pacers win over Portland. He's shooting +50%fd +40%3pt +85%line. Why did Mullin trade him.

Not trying to be a troll but they bash him so bad there.... I just feel as though I got to get his back on this. Is this wrong? Should I quit.... I mean Mike D is a big reason why we are winning.

I know its wrong but but but....
I've avoiding bumping the GS thread or starting a new one, but if I were you I'd avoid any GS trade rants right now. As nice as Dun has been at times this year, the Warriors just went from high lottery to serious contender simply by Jackson's return from suspension. So Warrior fans have plenty of ammo to come back at you with.

They are freaking 7-1 since Jack returned, the one loss coming in Boston. They just blasted Houston tonight, and Phoenix a few days ago. They won on the road at Toronto and Washington. Meanwhile we're happy that Mike has the Pacers at 8-8.

TNT just ran this stat, 7 games w/out Jackson, 8 games with.
7 games, Opp. PPG 116, Opp FG% 49.6, Opp 3pt% 45.2, Steals/Gm 6.6
8 games, Opp. PPG 100, FG% 44, 3p% 30.7, Steals 10.1

That's some very dramatic numbers showing defensive improvement, especially on the perimeter (3P%, steals). I'm not even trying to be the Jack lover everyone thinks, I'm just saying no matter what player returned and had that kind of impact it's pretty freaking impressive. Jack is a more intense defender than he got credit for here, and frankly that's a Mike weak point. Just like Mike thinks a better game and is less prone to foolish plays (but not immune).



No Ike, Troy is a wreck. Al is contributing more than either of them.

I like Dun more on the break than Jackson (he's just not a fast player, nor a leaping dunker), but Jack on SG defense is better. Both can shoot but are streaky from the arc (based on the last 3 years). Mike is picking his spots better on 3pt attempts (often stepping into it) which has him at the strong 40% spot. The hard fact is that Mike's improved play this year has brought him back to even with Jackson, not blowing him away. Hey, if Ike comes back and does the same vs Al then talent-wise you get back to where you were pre-trade. I'd be very happy just to have that (hate the extra money, mostly due to Troy).

Why do I know or care any of this? Because the trade isn't a year old AND honestly that Warriors squad is a ton of fun to watch. You want high octane offense and intense defense? Ironically the Jackson-led Warriors are the team for you. Break out the Tivo some night and tell me I'm wrong the next day (due to West coast times I mean).

imawhat
11-30-2007, 02:58 AM
The thing that interested me the most last night was this: we have now won 3 consecutive "2nd game of back-to-back games" games. And this one was after playing the previous night in the higher Denver altitude. I cannot say how encouraging this truly is. And we're doing it while our two best low post scorers are out. How long has it been since we've won three in a row like that?


A stat I'd love to see: Mike Dunleavy's FG% with 16 or more seconds on the shot clock vs. Mike Dunleavy's FG% with 16 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 03:04 AM
One more thing on depth/JO. As I said in the Denver thread, Camby showed you what JO can do just on defense. They don't need JO to sprint ahead for a flying dunk, that's what Danny, Shawne and Mike give you.

JO gives you a pounder in the post to rough up a zone, and a monster threat to protect perimeter defensive issues. When you see flashes of David playing well and how it impacts the game, that's what JO does all the time when healthy.

Troy might have had moments, but he is literally getting run right past on defense, even out of the triple threat.



I see the team playing better and then think about the fact that they can still add Ike and JO and my reaction isn't worry, it's excitement. If this team can play .500 ball with this group, then bringing JO/Ike back and siphoning off minutes from Troy/Rush/Diener/Tins/Dun/Granger/Foster only helps. No way I want Jeff running 37 a night. Take 5 from each of those players, more from Troy, a you've still got 25 and 15 or more to give to JO and Ike.

Running the tight rotation works because those are the players that both understand and are capable of making good on that understanding. I think Ike and JO both fit that description too, so adding them helps.

Where do they find another PG that also fits that? Maybe nowhere unless Diener can find it in himself. I'm a bit surprised at Owens PT.

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 03:06 AM
The thing that interested me the most last night was this: we have now won 3 consecutive "2nd game of back-to-back games" games. And this one was after playing the previous night in the higher Denver altitude. I cannot say how encouraging this truly is. And we're doing it while our two best low post scorers are out. How long has it been since we've won three in a row like that?


A stat I'd love to see: Mike Dunleavy's FG% with 16 or more seconds on the shot clock vs. Mike Dunleavy's FG% with 16 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.
Wow, good stat on the back to back. I need to bump the schedule thread for that kind of stuff.

As for Mike's FG%, good luck with that. I can't even be engineer-taunted into that one (as in "I bet no one could figure that stat out" ;) ).

imawhat
11-30-2007, 03:40 AM
Wow, good stat on the back to back. I need to bump the schedule thread for that kind of stuff.

As for Mike's FG%, good luck with that. I can't even be engineer-taunted into that one (as in "I bet no one could figure that stat out" ;) ).




I did a quick check of last night's game, and I was shocked at the result

16 or more remaining: 60%
fewer than 16 remaining: 67%


I guess I forgot about all the baskets he got off of halfcourt cuts (a couple of layups under the basket). But, in general, it seems like he scores at a much higher rate if he's getting quick shots in rhythm. Even his 3s in transition seem to go in at a high rate.

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 04:01 AM
Well I said previously that last night was the first game since Utah that the HC motion/passing game was clicking again. What that means for Dun is more shots off cuts or stepping into his open jumper.

Obviously in transition he's more likely to find those if the HC game is crap, but if they would maintain the quality motion in the HC game he'd be fine there too.

One of his best shots is the 2pt jumper off the high post curl. That's nearly money in rhythm. Obviously this is available later in the clock just as much or more than in very early transition.

MagicRat
11-30-2007, 08:40 AM
A stat I'd love to see: Mike Dunleavy's FG% with 16 or more seconds on the shot clock vs. Mike Dunleavy's FG% with 16 or fewer seconds on the shot clock.

Check here:

http://www.82games.com/0708/07IND7A.HTM