PDA

View Full Version : Jamaal Tinsley is clutch



Trader Joe
11-29-2007, 12:26 AM
Y'all know its true. The man has ice water in his veins.

AesopRockOn
11-29-2007, 12:27 AM
Change his name to Mel Mel the Leader.

Did you see that dumb *** tech he got for going into triple threat and not even touching Rodriguez? He stood strong though and we persevered.

50/50

Evan_The_Dude
11-29-2007, 12:32 AM
I don't even care about his shooting anymore. As long as he's making them when they count then the rest is irrelevant. A few of his turnovers tonight weren't his fault, but he still needs to cut down on those. But overall the dude should be nicknamed "The Motor" instead of Mel Mel.

Doddage
11-29-2007, 12:53 AM
The Tinsley stat watch:
13.8 ppg
8.3 apg
4.5 rpg

Looks like we have our point guard right now.

Isaac
11-29-2007, 12:57 AM
The turnovers didn't bother me in this one, and I'm one of the biggest Jamaal supporters you'll find. However, even though we got the win and he iced it doesn't excuse him taking bad 3-pointers. I didn't have a problem with the first 2 he took in the first quarter, those were good looks and halfway down before they came out. But in the 4th quarter, he killed the movement of our offense with some bad contested 3s.

ajbry
11-29-2007, 12:59 AM
JT is playing very well. Although it could be simply because he doesn't have to defer to anybody (particularly JO), so he's free to show all aspects of his game again and isn't afraid to let his instincts take over.

We can't ask for much more as of late.

Moses
11-29-2007, 02:36 AM
The Tinsley stat watch:
13.8 ppg
8.3 apg
4.5 rpg

Looks like we have our point guard right now.
Don't forget all the deflections and steals he has had. I'm pretty sure now that we are playing up tempo basketball, we wont be seeing any more "sinusitis" and "sore elbow."

Mourning
11-29-2007, 03:43 AM
This is the Tinman that was my favorite Pacer several years back :).

Good to see he's still alive. I had pretty much given up on him. Still have to see it over a longer period before I'm completely comfortable with him again, but he's doing what I want him to do now. Only some of his shot selection is questionable and his defence isn't super, but it's atleast acceptable for the time beying.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Unclebuck
11-29-2007, 08:27 AM
I've been as critical of Tinsley as anyone over the years - sometimes very harshly. But I have never, ever, ever questioned his mental toughness or his self confidence.
Although I have perhaps said he has too much of both for his own good. - but I know he doesn't coward under pressure.

One thing that is clear is if you are going to have Tinsley as the point guard on your team (I'm thinking as the coach) you have to live with his turnovers, you have to live with his missed shots and bad shots - you have to allow him to play his game - you have to allow him to gamble defensively (a little) you have to allow him to be him - otherwise he isn't very effective.

He still drives me crazy, his defense just isn't as good as I would like, he makes dumb decisions way too often, and he still gets into personal battles from time to time, but he is all we have, and I can overlook a lot of his turnovers because he's trying to make things happen. Kidd and Nash often lead the league in turnovers for point guards - but no one ever complains because they create so much.

McKeyFan
11-29-2007, 09:33 AM
Kidd and . . . . ????

Rinuven
11-29-2007, 09:36 AM
While a couple of those three's were in and out, a majority of the misses were the wrong shot to take. He's taking them because he's open, but he's open for a reason. I'm sure the scouting report on him is very clear on that. I know JOB would rather the guys take 3s rather than long 2s, but I think JT needs to be an exception. He's so creative, I'd much rather see him attack and create (for himself or elsewhere) than take the shot just because he's open. Unless it greatly improves, I would think that discussion is going to have to happen at some point. 1-8, ouch. I'd much rather see a 0-3, 1-2 type of 3pt stat line from him. Eight is way too many.

It's been my only gripe so far of his game. I think the turnovers will decrease as we go. Lineups and rotations haven't been figured out, yet and guys are still learning eachother.

naptownmenace
11-29-2007, 09:40 AM
The turnovers didn't bother me in this one, and I'm one of the biggest Jamaal supporters you'll find. However, even though we got the win and he iced it doesn't excuse him taking bad 3-pointers. I didn't have a problem with the first 2 he took in the first quarter, those were good looks and halfway down before they came out. But in the 4th quarter, he killed the movement of our offense with some bad contested 3s.

Ditto. I don't think I ever want to see another game where he takes 8 three-point shots. He's 29% behind the line for pete's sake. He had way too many turnovers as well. However, I have to give a lot of credit to Tinsley for coming through in the clutch and Obie for leaving him in the game.

After that last forced 3 point shot that Tinsley missed, the camera cut to Obie (I was watching on League Pass so it was the Portland telecast) and he just rolled his eyes and shook his head. I thought for sure he was going to yank him. He even looked over at the bench for a couple of seconds as if he was going to make a substitution. He even had an opportunity to substitute because of a dead ball situation. Instead he left him in the game and a couple of plays later Tinsley got that steal and assist to Kareem Rush for the go ahead layup and he was solid the rest of the way.

OakMoses
11-29-2007, 10:10 AM
The Tinsley stat watch:
13.8 ppg
8.3 apg
4.5 rpg

Looks like we have our point guard right now.

1.8 steals per game.
38% shooting on 13.5 attempts per game.
26% 3pt shooting on 4 attempts per game.
8th in the NBA in TO at 3.6 per game.

If we're doing a stat watch, lets get them all in there.

I do, however, think that he's playing the best basketball of his career this year.

ABADays
11-29-2007, 12:41 PM
I'm gonna wait a while on Jamaal. There's just been too much over the years to jump on his bandwagon right now for me - especially 4th quarter free throws. I'll check back in February.

ThA HoyA
11-29-2007, 02:36 PM
he was very good at the final but he did take some shots that were real iffy but u take the good and the bad because at least right now the good is outweighing the bad....on a side note didnt the rim seem to make the ball bounce like crazy nothing like i have seen its like they were playing with one of those bouncy balls

Isaac
11-29-2007, 03:59 PM
he was very good at the final but he did take some shots that were real iffy but u take the good and the bad because at least right now the good is outweighing the bad....on a side note didnt the rim seem to make the ball bounce like crazy nothing like i have seen its like they were playing with one of those bouncy balls

Yes, the rims seemed to be wired tighter then usual or something. They had no give to them at all. I kept talking about that during the first half. It was the opposite of what the new ball was doing last year.

Roaming Gnome
11-29-2007, 05:32 PM
I'm gonna wait a while on Jamaal. There's just been too much over the years to jump on his bandwagon right now for me - especially 4th quarter free throws. I'll check back in February.

I'd have to agree 100% on this one. I'm still in a holding pattern on what I truely think about Jamaal, Dunleavy, J.O. and how they all will work for us. For me, it just seems too early to start planting a flag and proclaiming Jamaal as a changed man. My thought on Jamaal has ALWAYS been that he isn't as good as he was very early on, but not as much of a problem that requires new threads about getting rid of him, like the last one. IMHO, Jamaal is an average starting quality point guard. As ABA mentioned, it probably will be February before I truely feel that Jamaal is a changed man either top 10 quality or bottom 10 quality. I'd like to see if Jamaal's wizardry stays in tact when J.O. is introduced back into the line-up and the rest of the league starts to figure us out as a whole around game 25 or so. You know how it goes when other teams are able to start game planning on what you really like to do. Until then, I'm going to sit back and enjoy what we are getting out of Jamaal, Obie and this team.

Naptown_Seth
11-30-2007, 02:34 AM
One thing that is clear is if you are going to have Tinsley as the point guard on your team (I'm thinking as the coach) you have to live with his turnovers, you have to live with his missed shots and bad shots - you have to allow him to play his game - you have to allow him to gamble defensively (a little) you have to allow him to be him - otherwise he isn't very effective.
I agree.

I also agree that at his make rate he can't consider those open shots to be "good". Hit your open looks at 50/40 respectively and then you should be taking them when you get them. But of course then teams won't sag off you in the first place. Catch 22.


Turnovers. I don't care, not one bit. He's a fool with the ball at times, no doubt about that. But I never cared his rookie year and I still don't. What his aggressive passing has always meant to the offense is effort by the other 4. Guys will run and work for it because they know that at any moment Tins might zip one under their chin.

The turnovers are simply the price of doing business in this case.

Trader Joe
12-01-2007, 12:58 AM
We might lose this game, but the point still stands.

Trader Joe
12-02-2007, 05:51 PM
Ahem...

aero
12-02-2007, 05:58 PM
very impressed with Tinsley's play as of late.

rexnom
12-04-2007, 02:12 AM
I agree.

I also agree that at his make rate he can't consider those open shots to be "good". Hit your open looks at 50/40 respectively and then you should be taking them when you get them. But of course then teams won't sag off you in the first place. Catch 22.


Turnovers. I don't care, not one bit. He's a fool with the ball at times, no doubt about that. But I never cared his rookie year and I still don't. What his aggressive passing has always meant to the offense is effort by the other 4. Guys will run and work for it because they know that at any moment Tins might zip one under their chin.

The turnovers are simply the price of doing business in this case.
How do we know he isn't hitting them at 50/40? His %s account for other missed shots too - not just open ones. What's Jamaal's % on open looks? Can we even get this stat? If he's hitting most of his open shots then it can't be counted as a bad shot, right?

RickSmitsFan
12-04-2007, 03:31 AM
I'm not too impressed. Tins has had some big moments this year, but when the games on the line I will never be confident with him shooting a big shot or driving when down by 3 and getting blocked. On top of that, his PER is 15.3, just slightly above the league average. Like mentioned before, his FG% looks like Raymond Felton and he's unreliable from beyond the arc. Him making some iffy big shots doesn't make up for not having any strength from the bench at point. Trade Tins! I'd like Calderon more.

NPFII
12-04-2007, 06:33 AM
^ Of course you'd like Calderon more. He's a top-7 PG in the league.

Kidd, Nash, Baron, Chauncey, Deron, CP3, ... Calderon.

A healthy Tinsley playing the ball of his life can't crack that list.

naptownmenace
12-04-2007, 12:48 PM
^ Of course you'd like Calderon more. He's a top-7 PG in the league.

Kidd, Nash, Baron, Chauncey, Deron, CP3, ... Calderon.

A healthy Tinsley playing the ball of his life can't crack that list.

To be fair, JT is showing signs of improving his game. I haven't seen the consistency in assists that he's shown this year since his rookie season. He's rebounding the ball pretty well and his defensive is definitely better than it's ever been.

He shoots too many 3s and he doesn't drive and dish enough IMO but over the last 10 games he's been very solid.

BTW, have you watched Baron Davis play? He's Jamaal Tinsley with jumping ability. The same poor shot selection and turnovers but because he's Baron Davis he gets a complete pass.

Naptown_Seth
12-04-2007, 12:57 PM
How do we know he isn't hitting them at 50/40? His %s account for other missed shots too - not just open ones. What's Jamaal's % on open looks? Can we even get this stat? If he's hitting most of his open shots then it can't be counted as a bad shot, right?
Because he never takes a contested 3 pt shot. Okay, 10% of them maybe. But like Diener, he's missing a ton of wide open threes, and this has always been the case with him.

I've long argued on the side FOR Tinsley when people criticized his shot selection. He gets shots that normally are considered good looks. A short banker from the low post on a guy smaller than you or unable to defend it? Give that to Duncan and he's an all-star with it.

Tins misses a lot of shots that other players would love to have. He can GET tons of moderate to great looks. I said it last year in my Foster thread, he and Jeff miss some shots that just drive you nuts because they are right there. Tins adds open 3s to that inside miss collection.

JayRedd
12-04-2007, 02:06 PM
^ Of course you'd like Calderon more. He's a top-7 PG in the league.

Kidd, Nash, Baron, Chauncey, Deron, CP3, ... Calderon.


Tony Parker thinks you're nuts.

But, yeah, they're not trading us Jose.

RickSmitsFan
12-04-2007, 06:47 PM
^ Of course you'd like Calderon more. He's a top-7 PG in the league.

Kidd, Nash, Baron, Chauncey, Deron, CP3, ... Calderon.

A healthy Tinsley playing the ball of his life can't crack that list.

Like he just said, TP does think you're nuts, and CP3 is hoping that list is in no particular order. Mo Williams and starter TJ Ford also might be concerned with that list. Anyhow, JC is one of the best half court pg's in the game and even though I'd love to see him in Indy, I know that wouldn't happen.

bellisimo
12-04-2007, 06:50 PM
^ Of course you'd like Calderon more. He's a top-7 PG in the league.

Kidd, Nash, Baron, Chauncey, Deron, CP3, ... Calderon.

A healthy Tinsley playing the ball of his life can't crack that list.

thats just hating right there...:-p

MistyRo76
12-04-2007, 10:57 PM
Just comparing Tinsley from last year to this year (thru 19 games):

Last year (in 72 games): 6 double doubles (PTS/AST)/9 Games with Double Figure Assists/

This year (in 19 games): 7 double doubles/10 Games with Double Figure Assists.

His AST/TO ratio is sitting around 2.4/1. Take out those three games where he had 8, 6, 6 TOs and it bumps up to almost 3/1.

Almost a quarter into the season and it seems like he just keeps getting better. Now that's not to say, he won't still have moments where he frustrates you. But at this point, I think he's showing more us alot more good than bad. Love seeing him in this new system.

Evan_The_Dude
12-05-2007, 12:35 AM
I'm glad we didn't ship him off during the offseason like 80% of the people here wanted just so we could see him flourish in someone else's jersey. I think he's going to continue getting better and better now that he's out of the cage he's been in all these years.

ABADays
12-10-2007, 03:37 AM
I'm gonna wait a while on Jamaal. There's just been too much over the years to jump on his bandwagon right now for me - especially 4th quarter free throws. I'll check back in February.

Well . . . I guess I won't have to wait until February. The guy ain't gonna change.

able
12-10-2007, 04:41 AM
Well . . . I guess I won't have to wait until February. The guy ain't gonna change.
But he still hit 4-4 from the stripe in crunchtime, (last 30 seconds) unlike Quis who was 0-4

Naptown_Seth
12-11-2007, 01:50 PM
Someone, not me, should run up the under 2 minutes FTs in games that are close. Maybe 8 points or less.

That's a stat a lot of people would like to see I think. Or does 82Games already have it?