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Anthem
11-27-2007, 11:27 PM
I'll admit, I thought he was a stupid pick in the draft. Not because I didn't think he could be a good player, but because we already had a long 3 / pseudo-4 who could hit the occasional jumper. But this kid impresses me.

Does anybody look at this guy and see a player 10 games into his sophomore season? He looks much smoother, much more polished, and much more aware than that. Now, his beautiful shot doesn't hurt him any, but overall he just looks solid. Whose quote is it... Birds? "Looks like a basketball player out there?"

Unclebuck
11-27-2007, 11:32 PM
He's the most talented player we have

Anthem
11-27-2007, 11:38 PM
Ok, so he botched the clutch free throw at the end. But still a good game by Shawne.

Shade
11-27-2007, 11:41 PM
:pimp:

That is all.

AesopRockOn
11-27-2007, 11:41 PM
He's the most talented player we have

Except for Jeff Foster of course. ;)

Evan_The_Dude
11-27-2007, 11:42 PM
Star in the making. Dude has serious game. Not too many weaknesses at all. He shot a couple of "tired leg" three's and free-throws tonight, but Kobe did that too early in his career.

spazzxb
11-27-2007, 11:43 PM
I'll admit, I thought he was a stupid pick in the draft. Not because I didn't think he could be a good player, but because we already had a long 3 / pseudo-4 who could hit the occasional jumper. But this kid impresses me.

Does anybody look at this guy and see a player 10 games into his sophomore season? He looks much smoother, much more polished, and much more aware than that. Now, his beautiful shot doesn't hurt him any, but overall he just looks solid. Whose quote is it... Birds? "Looks like a basketball player out there?"


not to mention only spending 1 year in college. danny went 4 years in college, whereas Williams would only be a junior this year at Memphis.

JayRedd
11-27-2007, 11:43 PM
I like him.

Unclebuck
11-27-2007, 11:47 PM
Except for Jeff Foster of course. ;)

Well yes of course

Hoop
11-27-2007, 11:47 PM
I love the kid. He has a very high B-Ball IQ. He has no real glaring weaknesses, except FT's maybe, he just needs to continue to get better at everything and I think he will.

He was born in 1986, that blows me away, I have underwear that's nearly that old.

wintermute
11-27-2007, 11:49 PM
i wouldn't mind if he started at pf from now on. j.o. can play the 5 when he comes back

Anthem
11-27-2007, 11:52 PM
i wouldn't mind if he started at pf from now on. j.o. can play the 5 when he comes back
I don't think he could do that against a lot of teams. Denver's frontcourt was pretty depleted tonight.

Infinite MAN_force
11-27-2007, 11:53 PM
i wouldn't mind if he started at pf from now on. j.o. can play the 5 when he comes back

I really think this could be our strongest lineup.... I just hope JO wouldn't whine about playing center... It seems like JOB has lost some confidence in Troy recently. He has had some good scoring games, but I can see coach has put his money where his mouth is when it comes to the importance of defense.

Hicks
11-28-2007, 12:08 AM
My favorite moment of the season: Shawne Williams hands me his autograph and I say, "I look forward to seeing you starting in the near future." to which he replies with a grin, "Thanks."

Cut to: Two days later. Denver. Who starts next to Jeff? :)

I own one jersey right now (Granger). I'm seriously considering getting a second one soon.

Hicks
11-28-2007, 12:09 AM
I don't think he could do that against a lot of teams. Denver's frontcourt was pretty depleted tonight.

I think Shawne might have a wirey strength. The man doesn't back down from contact and will scrap in the post. Besides, he'd be starting in place of Murphy. That can't actually be bad.

LAPacer
11-28-2007, 12:09 AM
I wonder if JO would whine if he was our sixth-man

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 12:15 AM
I think Shawne might have a wirey strength. The man doesn't back down from contact and will scrap in the post. Besides, he'd be starting in place of Murphy. That can't actually be bad.

Agreed. Plus it's a different NBA now. We could get away with it against most teams, but we should be smart and play it right against the teams with more than one big man.

Anthem
11-28-2007, 12:16 AM
Besides, he'd be starting in place of Murphy. That can't actually be bad.
Wow, I hadn't considered that. I've thought of him as too short and weak to play the 4 full-time, but compared to Murphy...

Trader Joe
11-28-2007, 12:18 AM
I'd be all for starting him on a trial basis. We'd have to make a trade though if it works out.

Some people can just flat out play basketball in any style. Shawne Williams is one of those people.

Robertmto
11-28-2007, 12:21 AM
Hate to say Me and Shade told u so but.....

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 12:26 AM
Shawne had a lot of tough rebounds today against some efficient rebounders in Camby and Najera. I also love when they play Williams in the post. It's almost like a work of art watching him catch the ball down there and finish. Let him be the starting 4, I wouldn't be mad at that.

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 12:28 AM
Then again I guess we're forgetting that Ike will be back shortly. That will throw our wishes off a bit.

Hicks
11-28-2007, 12:29 AM
Hell, if Al Harrington can start next to JO, I don't see why Shawne can't.

JayRedd
11-28-2007, 12:30 AM
So....What can we get for a JO/Granger package then?

Build around Shawne/Ike/MDJ/Quis/New PG. Why not?

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 12:32 AM
Don't trade Granger. If he works on his dribbles he'll be gold.

Hicks
11-28-2007, 12:34 AM
So....What can we get for a JO/Granger package then?

Build around Shawne/Ike/MDJ/Quis/New PG. Why not?

1) Too soon

2) I think Danny and Shawne can co-exist. Make Dunleavy your 6th/7th man if you have to. Or let that be Ike.

3) It only feels like Mike is here forever. But in two years he becomes much more tradeable (if he doesn't drop his stats by then). Danny and Shawne will still be young and/or entering their prime then.

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 12:36 AM
The way Quis played tonight with 8 assists, maybe he can be the point guard if the combo of Ike/Mike/Danny/Shawne improve their games to a strong enough level. I'd hate to see any of those guys go anywhere anytime soon.

Doddage
11-28-2007, 12:36 AM
I just want to reiterate that I recognized Shawne's potential and knew he could be something special for us well before he even got minutes here. Now that he's getting minutes, everyone is realizing that this dude's got game.

JayRedd
11-28-2007, 12:38 AM
1) Too soon

2) I think Danny and Shawne can co-exist. Make Dunleavy your 6th/7th man if you have to. Or let that be Ike.

3) It only feels like Mike is here forever. But in two years he becomes much more tradeable (if he doesn't drop his stats by then). Danny and Shawne will still be young and/or entering their prime then.

Yeah...I wasn't actually really serious. Just eager for a big move in February.

I'm still not as high on Shawne as most of yall. But I am starting to see what some people are talking about.

Doddage
11-28-2007, 12:39 AM
So did Shawne start at the 4 tonight? Or was it Granger?

Infinite MAN_force
11-28-2007, 12:49 AM
The way Quis played tonight with 8 assists, maybe he can be the point guard if the combo of Ike/Mike/Danny/Shawne improve their games to a strong enough level. I'd hate to see any of those guys go anywhere anytime soon.

You know we still have Tinsley, who just posted his second near triple double in a row... I don't know what the dude has to do to gain a little respect.

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 12:52 AM
You know we still have Tinsley, who just posted his second near triple double in a row... I don't know what the dude has to do to gain a little respect.

I respect the hell out of Tinsley. I was just speaking on JayRedd's group of players. I want Tinsley here for now and beyond. I hope he shows to be a late bloomer and becomes an All-Star at least once or twice.

imawhat
11-28-2007, 01:04 AM
Don't trade Granger. If he works on his dribbles he'll be gold.

I said this last year after Shawne's first game as a rookie. If it came down to the two of them, I would trade Granger without blinking.


Shawne, like I've been saying, is on track to become the most well-rounded offensive player the Pacers have had in many years (including Reggie). I love watching him play.

Anthem
11-28-2007, 01:05 AM
Shawne, like I've been saying, is on track to become the most well-rounded offensive player the Pacers have had in many years (including Reggie). I love watching him play.
Well-rounded? His handles don't impress me.

But his shot's pretty.

imawhat
11-28-2007, 01:10 AM
Well-rounded? His handles don't impress me.

But his shot's pretty.

Tell that to Dirk Nowitzki.

Infinite MAN_force
11-28-2007, 01:12 AM
I respect the hell out of Tinsley. I was just speaking on JayRedd's group of players. I want Tinsley here for now and beyond. I hope he shows to be a late bloomer and becomes an All-Star at least once or twice.

Maybe I misinterpreted you, It just seems like the better Tinsley plays the more people complain about him. Guys been doing a hell of a job and seems to truly buy into JOB's system. He is really starting to look like a "leader" of the team as of late.

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 01:23 AM
Well-rounded? His handles don't impress me.

But his shot's pretty.

He's very very well rounded. In a season and 15 games Shawne's game is right up there with Danny's who is now in his 3rd season. Danny has improved every year, but I think he struggles to know where he's supposed to be on the offensive side of the ball and thinks too much offensively, which leads to a lot of his silly turnovers. Shawne makes mistakes, but not quite like Danny does and he's just so smooth with the ball it's ridiculous.

JayRedd
11-28-2007, 01:27 AM
Maybe I misinterpreted you, It just seems like the better Tinsley plays the more people complain about him. Guys been doing a hell of a job and seems to truly buy into JOB's system. He is really starting to look like a "leader" of the team as of late.

Hey, I'll be the first to say Tinsley has played good the last six to eight games. He has. And he's been superb on some nights.

But, I'm also not going to think climate change has stopped just because it's cold for two weeks in November.

I mean, we have six years of clear evidence on Jamaal.

He's a pendulum. We know this.

He's swinging on the good side right now. And I'm sincerely hoping he continues it through May. But I've seen him play great before. And then I've seen him be disinterested and generally make poor decisions the next night. This has been happening for years. So until I see like three months straight where he's playing at a high level three out of every four nights, I'm going to continue to expect violent swings between greatness, trash and utter mediocrity on a nearly game-to-game basis.

I fully expect him to play really well against Portland tomorrow. But would anyone really be surprised if he went 3 for 12 with 3 assists, 5 TOs and 2 ill-advised shots in the final five minutes? Probably not.

And that's our Jamaal...for better or worse (through 2011).

imawhat
11-28-2007, 01:36 AM
He's very very well rounded. In a season and 15 games Shawne's game is right up there with Danny's who is now in his 3rd season. Danny has improved every year, but I think he struggles to know where he's supposed to be on the offensive side of the ball and thinks too much offensively, which leads to a lot of his silly turnovers. Shawne makes mistakes, but not quite like Danny does and he's just so smooth with the ball it's ridiculous.


The #1 difference between Shawne and Danny is instincts vs. thought. Shawne is pure instincts, Danny is pure thought. I still think Danny has a better dribble drive and is slightly quicker. Shawne's mid-range doesn't seem as good as last year. I think he also can improve his shot off the dribble, but other than that, he's all there offensively.

Infinite MAN_force
11-28-2007, 01:40 AM
Well the main difference here is the coaching change. I have read a lot of quotes from tins where he indicates how happy he is with Obrien and his system and in general a whole lot more enthusiasm with everything. I see him on the court yelling at his teammates and actually acting like a leader...

So far there was one game where I thought he looked disinterested... our first loss of the season to the clippers and so far thats the only game that comes to mind. in the last 6 or 7 games he has been playing like an allstar and still going strong.

I'm drinking the Obrien koolaid a little, but I really think he has had a very positive effect on Tinsley's attitude in general. Having someone that believes in you tends to help. Now I wouldn't be totally shocked to see him lapse as he has done in the past, but for the time being we have many reasons to believe this *could* be the new-improved point guard we have been waiting for.

He still needs to work on shot selection some times, but all in all I have high hopes.

Robertmto
11-28-2007, 02:21 AM
Shawne and Marquis should both be starting

Pacemaker
11-28-2007, 03:33 AM
Shawne and Marquis should both be starting

I'm starting to like the rotation just the way it is ... without JO. Sad but true. I would love to see JO's return as an upgrade... but the record states otherwise. :o

Peck
11-28-2007, 05:12 AM
I'm very curious to see what we would look like with Danny, Shawne and Ike all in at the same time someday.

I know that won't start but at some point in time in a game it will occur.

I don't believe for a min. that that is to short of a lineup.

Danny is a very very physical 6-9 player and is the best shot blocker on the team behind Jermaine and Harrison.

Shawne so far has proven he is not afraid of contact and we all know Ike is down with it.

Actually if you really want to see something weird how about a lineup of

Ike
Shawne
David
Danny
Quis

Talk about height, strength and athleticism.

Erik
11-28-2007, 05:29 AM
he showed flashes of what he could do last year. his confidence is half his game, you would think that he was drafted a couple of years before granger just given their demeanor on the court. yes, shawne is the man.

Rajah Brown
11-28-2007, 08:09 AM
Jay Redd-

There you go. Someone on this board was ok w/ 'potentially' packaging
J.O./DG this past Summer when the L.A. talks were on-going. Oh,
that was me.

That probably wasn't the deal to do with those two together (unless
Odom coulda been spun for a top-notch G and/or 2008 Lottery pick).
But at some point, while I'm in no hurry to part w/ Granger, that
package just might bring back the kind of assets (as noted above)
needed.

A Rose or a Gordon or even...(a more mature) Mayo would
look pretty good in Gold and Blue.

Ragnar
11-28-2007, 08:22 AM
Peck I think out best lineup would be

Tins
Danny
Shawne
Ike
J.O. (but you could start feisty)

I just think these guys could really kick some *** as a starting unit.

Unclebuck
11-28-2007, 08:30 AM
The #1 difference between Shawne and Danny is instincts vs. thought. Shawne is pure instincts, Danny is pure thought.


That is a great point. So true.


One thing that makes the pacers team unique is the tall wing players. Clark kellogg was making this point last night. Between Mike, Danny, Shawne, Marquis - you really have a unique group with great size

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 10:35 AM
That is a great point. So true.


One thing that makes the pacers team unique is the tall wing players. Clark kellogg was making this point last night. Between Mike, Danny, Shawne, Marquis - you really have a unique group with great size

New slogan... 07/08 Indiana Pacers "Size does matter"

OakMoses
11-28-2007, 10:36 AM
I've always thought that Shawne Williams was a similar player to Rashard Lewis. I'm starting to wonder if he isn't more similar to Shawn Marion with a prettier jumpshot. He's not the lockdown defender that Marion is, but I can definitely see him fitting in well as an undersized 4 in a fast paced offense.

As far as trading goes, if we're going to trade one of our three good youngsters, I'd vote for Ike at this point. I think his upside is lower than both Shawne and Danny's.

Evan_The_Dude
11-28-2007, 10:39 AM
I've always thought that Shawne Williams was a similar player to Rashard Lewis.

I said the same thing 2 weeks back. Their games and their career numbers at this point in their careers are quite similar.

OakMoses
11-28-2007, 10:58 AM
Peck I think out best lineup would be

Tins
Danny
Shawne
Ike
J.O. (but you could start feisty)

I just think these guys could really kick some *** as a starting unit.

That's almost too much offense. I'd rather see a lineup of Tins, Dun, Danny, Shawne, JO with Ike, Quis, and Foster all playing 20+ minutes off the bench.

JayRedd
11-28-2007, 01:23 PM
One thing that makes the pacers team unique is the tall wing players. Clark kellogg was making this point last night. Between Mike, Danny, Shawne, Marquis - you really have a unique group with great size

And zero guards.

aceace
11-28-2007, 03:22 PM
I notice that some still have an "uneasiness" about Dunleavy. Lets look at his stats.

<table class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" bordercolor="#cccccc" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="odd"><td class="yr">07-08</td> <td class="tm">IND</td> <td>15</td> <td>15</td> <td>32.5</td> <td>0.474</td> <td>0.392</td> <td>0.833</td> <td>0.9</td> <td>4.8</td> <td>5.7</td> <td>2.3</td> <td>0.8</td> <td>0.2</td> <td>1.20</td> <td>2.30</td> <td>16.3</td></tr></tbody></table>
Through 15 games 47% from the field, 39% from 3, 83% from the line, 16.3 pts, 5.7 rb, assist to t/o ratio 2 to 1. 1 steal per game.

I think its safe to say he's no longer over paid, if you also consider his knowledge of the game.

Anthem
11-28-2007, 03:30 PM
I notice that some still have an "uneasiness" about Dunleavy. Lets look at his stats.

<table class="playerStatTable careerAvg" border="1" bordercolor="#cccccc" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr class="odd"><td class="yr">07-08</td> <td class="tm">IND</td> <td>15</td> <td>15</td> <td>32.5</td> <td>0.474</td> <td>0.392</td> <td>0.833</td> <td>0.9</td> <td>4.8</td> <td>5.7</td> <td>2.3</td> <td>0.8</td> <td>0.2</td> <td>1.20</td> <td>2.30</td> <td>16.3</td></tr></tbody></table>
Through 15 games 47% from the field, 39% from 3, 83% from the line, 16.3 pts, 5.7 rb, assist to t/o ratio 2 to 1. 1 steal per game.

I think its safe to say he's no longer over paid, if you also consider his knowledge of the game.
"Still?" We're only a few games into the season. His stats were pretty good in the first month last year too.

I'll be nervous until I see him play well for an entire year.

EDIT: That being said, he's played pretty far above my expectations so far this year.

Since86
11-28-2007, 03:33 PM
With all the talk about moving JO, I would like to see a package worked out to get career backup players.

Not because his value is so low, but because that's where this team is really lacking. I think if they could get good quality backup players, who know they're backups and solidify that second unit or even the 3rd string you could work with something.

When you're best players are turning out to be your youngest players, it really makes the mood a whole lot better.

aceace
11-28-2007, 03:48 PM
"Still?" We're only a few games into the season. His stats were pretty good in the first month last year too.

I'll be nervous until I see him play well for an entire year.

EDIT: That being said, he's played pretty far above my expectations so far this year.Whats strange is, JOBs offense is similar to Nelsons running game. I think MD is just in a better frame of mind here. It may have been falling out of favor with the fans in Oakland. MD has had some mediocre games this year. Against the Cavs in 31 minutes he had 8 pts 4 rb and 0 t/o but only took 5 shots. (3-5) 2-2 ft. It appears he is letting the game come to him and not forcing anything. Stats don't look good for a guy starting but then he didn't do anything to hurt us either. Over last 3 games he's shooting 60%fg.

Dr. Goldfoot
11-28-2007, 03:52 PM
With all the talk about moving JO, I would like to see a package worked out to get career backup players.

Not because his value is so low, but because that's where this team is really lacking. I think if they could get good quality backup players, who know they're backups and solidify that second unit or even the 3rd string you could work with something.

When you're best players are turning out to be your youngest players, it really makes the mood a whole lot better.

I agree. If you quit worrying about getting some stud and start filling needs you could find pretty decent trades that would benefit both teams.

IE....
A T-Wolves trade that includes JO+ 1 body( Sims/Graham) for Ratliff, Buckner & Hudson.

A Sonics trade that nets Wally & Wilcox.

Mourning
11-28-2007, 04:16 PM
I agree. If you quit worrying about getting some stud and start filling needs you could find pretty decent trades that would benefit both teams.

IE....
A T-Wolves trade that includes JO+ 1 body( Sims/Graham) for Ratliff, Buckner & Hudson.

A Sonics trade that nets Wally & Wilcox.

I would be totally pissed with the first one. The second one isn't that bad. We are going to need the salary relief soon enough with our younger players.

I would hope we would be able to atleast get a decent first rounder somewhere though.

Young
11-28-2007, 04:29 PM
First I would like to say that Shawne is a super talented kid. I was pissed when we took him. Not because he wasn't good but because I wanted one of the point guards from that draft so badly. However Shawne is showing a lot of improvments this year and he is gonna be one heck of a player.

I don't think he should be starting right now though. I question that he can start at the power forward. He is doing just fine in his role right now. Don't try and fix what's not broken. Don't give him more than he can handle right now.

As far as Jermaine goes, it's bad. He can not be relied on to play and when he has played he just looks like he can't do it anymore. It's really sad. If we do look to move him I would be happy with getting a deal like Wally and Wilcox because honestly I really don't think that Jermaine is worth much right now. Regardless of how much he is paid, what he has done in the past, it doesn't matter. What he is doing now is not much. He's really gotta go.

Dr. Goldfoot
11-28-2007, 04:51 PM
I would be totally pissed with the first one. The second one isn't that bad. We are going to need the salary relief soon enough with our younger players.

I would hope we would be able to atleast get a decent first rounder somewhere though.

Well since Hudson doesn't even play for the T-wolves anymore it would be hard to pull the first one off.

Ratliff is an expiring contract and Buckner would shore up the perimeter D and he can hit the trey. Maybe add in Doleac to make salaries work. It would free up nearly $15 million in salary space after this season with Theo & Doleac coming off the books and Buckner has 2 more seasons after this one.

Oh yeah, Williams has looked pretty good he just needs to get that awareness.

JayRedd
11-28-2007, 05:18 PM
With all the talk about moving JO, I would like to see a package worked out to get career backup players.

Couldn't disagree more.

If we're not getting a real impact NBA player, we may as well just see how far JO can take us over the next three seasons and enjoy a few first round playoff games at least.

aceace
11-28-2007, 05:20 PM
I would be totally pissed with the first one. The second one isn't that bad. We are going to need the salary relief soon enough with our younger players.

I would hope we would be able to atleast get a decent first rounder somewhere though.I was looking at the salary situation concerning Ike and Danny with Shawne to follow a year later. Concerning the qualifying offer if we sign both Ike and Danny to new contracts do they kick in after the qualifying offer? If so both contracts would be after JO comes off the books. Shawnes would definitely be after JO regardless. So maybe were not in that bad of shape salary wise.

JayRedd
11-28-2007, 05:35 PM
I was looking at the salary situation concerning Ike and Danny with Shawne to follow a year later. Concerning the qualifying offer if we sign both Ike and Danny to new contracts do they kick in after the qualifying offer? If so both contracts would be after JO comes off the books. Shawnes would definitely be after JO regardless. So maybe were not in that bad of shape salary wise.

You're a little off.

Ike and Danny both will become free agents in 2009/10, which is the same season the final year of JO's contract ($23 million).

So prior to the start of that season, Danny and Ike would both need new deals to still be Pacers and these new contracts would begin during JO's last year (not "after the qualifying offer"...they are the qualifying offer).

Ideally, we'll just sign them to extensions next summer and never have to deal with them entering free agency, but that's not always as easy as it may seem (see Luol Deng and Ben Gordon).

So...assuming JO, Dun, Murph and Jamaal are still all here (big assumption given the timeframe, but still), it actually is pretty bad. We're already paying out $50 million in salary before Danny and Ike, who I imagine will each be around $8 million per...and that might be conservative with Danny. That's a minimum $66 million for six guys.

The luxury tax threshold was $65.42 this season, and from past history, I can't see it being any more than $75 million (and that's generous).

That's a problem.

aceace
11-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Jay, I assume your right since I am not well versed in the salaries. I expect JO to not be here by then unless he has 2 very good seasons. I can't see him opting out after this year even though he could. If he's at 17 and 10 by seasons end (possible) I can't see someone paying him anywhere near what he's making. Most likely that third year is more of a bait for other teams wanting to free up salary at seasons end. Of course if we did trade him we would be getting salary back which doesn't make the impacts of Ike and Dannys any easier. I think D Wade, LeBron and Carmelo all free agents 3 years from now. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Foster may opt out after this year also. I could see him getting more than 6 m per, he is a force on the boards and one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.

CableKC
11-28-2007, 07:30 PM
So...assuming JO, Dun, Murph and Jamaal are still all here (big assumption given the timeframe, but still), it actually is pretty bad. We're already paying out $50 million in salary before Danny and Ike, who I imagine will each be around $8 million per...and that might be conservative with Danny. That's a minimum $68 million for six guys.

The luxury tax threshold was $65.42 this season, and from past history, I can't see it being any more than $75 million (and that's generous).

That's a problem.
That's the question.....are we going to have to make a decision on whether we stick with JONeal or move forward with Danny and Ike?

The problem is that I think that this question is going to be answered by the end of the season or IMHO MUST be made before the trade deadline.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
11-28-2007, 10:16 PM
I like Shawne. I love Shawne's shot. But lets not jump the gun here (like we always do). He is still benefitting from getting his first real playing time. Lets see how he responds when teams start scouting him and he receives more defensive attention before we crown him our new franchise player.

Anthem
11-28-2007, 10:48 PM
So prior to the start of that season, Danny and Ike would both need new deals
That's why we should move Ike to move up in this year's draft.

wintermute
11-28-2007, 11:44 PM
You're a little off.

Ike and Danny both will become free agents in 2009/10, which is the same season the final year of JO's contract ($23 million).

So prior to the start of that season, Danny and Ike would both need new deals to still be Pacers and these new contracts would begin during JO's last year (not "after the qualifying offer"...they are the qualifying offer).

Ideally, we'll just sign them to extensions next summer and never have to deal with them entering free agency, but that's not always as easy as it may seem (see Luol Deng and Ben Gordon).

So...assuming JO, Dun, Murph and Jamaal are still all here (big assumption given the timeframe, but still), it actually is pretty bad. We're already paying out $50 million in salary before Danny and Ike, who I imagine will each be around $8 million per...and that might be conservative with Danny. That's a minimum $66 million for six guys.

The luxury tax threshold was $65.42 this season, and from past history, I can't see it being any more than $75 million (and that's generous).

That's a problem.

this whole post is spot on. you just forgot to add that david is an rfa this summer and given how well he is playing, we might want to sign him to a new deal. this exacerbates the problem and moves the time frame a lot closer.



That's why we should move Ike to move up in this year's draft.

that's one solution.... i like ike well enough but in his 3 games so far he looked more like corliss williamson than elton brand. doesn't mean he's a bad player though, and anyway the sample size is too small. i'd give him some more time when he comes back from his injury.

but, not having to deal with ike's extension doesn't open up enough room for david and danny. it also makes a lot more sense to deal away the big contracts who won't be part of the danny-shawne-ike future. specifically j.o., murphy, dunleavy, and tinsley. j.o.'s contract is so big that just dealing him should leave enough room for new contracts to david, danny, and ike, so you have to think about that.

with the other guys, it will take a combination of moves to free up enough space. still possible, but a j.o. deal seems most logical.