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View Full Version : LeBron: "I like what I'm seeing [from the Pacers]."



Shade
11-25-2007, 08:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271125011


James, who did more than his share of trash talking, gained respect for the Pacers as the game progressed.

"They're more up-and-down," he said. "I think [Pacers coach Jim] O'Brien has definitely put them in a position to win ball games because they run up-and-down. They have the athletes to do that, and they have the point guard that's going to lead them. I like what I'm seeing."

Sounds like he likes Tins as well.

hoopsforlife
11-25-2007, 08:24 PM
I wonder if Cleveland would like to trade for him. JO and Tins for anything that can wear a uniform would be OK by me.

LAPacer
11-26-2007, 02:30 AM
I wonder if Cleveland would like to trade for him. JO and Tins for anything that can wear a uniform would be OK by me.

I don't want anything the CAVs have except Lebron and maybe Z. I would say all of our starters are better than any of theirs, except for those 2. Hughes is a question mark, but he is injury prone and shoots a low percentage.

sweabs
11-26-2007, 02:37 AM
We play a fun style of basketball, that the players enjoy. People would enjoy playing in a system like this...that's why you have guys like Gilbert & Lebron complimenting.

It's just such a big change. Players must have, at times, seen the way we played last year and said to themselves "God, that looks horrible."

Peck
11-26-2007, 02:51 AM
We play a fun style of basketball, that the players enjoy. People would enjoy playing in a system like this...that's why you have guys like Gilbert & Lebron complimenting.

It's just such a big change. Players must have, at times, seen the way we played last year and said to themselves "God, that looks horrible."

However in fairness to Rick Carlisle I must make one small observation based on the two names you have just mentioned.

What else was differant when we played vs. the Wizards the first time and vs. the Cavs. today?

I think if you look you will see that a certain player is missing from both of those games.

Rick ran a motion offense in the 90's, Rick ran a non-isolation dominated offense in Detroit, Rick ran an uptempo quicker moving offense during the year of suspensions.

There really is about only one time that I know of that Rick ran the complete totall slow down one man in three men out and one half way offense.

rexnom
11-26-2007, 02:56 AM
However in fairness to Rick Carlisle I must make one small observation based on the two names you have just mentioned.

What else was differant when we played vs. the Wizards the first time and vs. the Cavs. today?

I think if you look you will see that a certain player is missing from both of those games.

Rick ran a motion offense in the 90's, Rick ran a non-isolation dominated offense in Detroit, Rick ran an uptempo quicker moving offense during the year of suspensions.

There really is about only one time that I know of that Rick ran the complete totall slow down one man in three men out and one half way offense.
I hate, I hate, I hate that your posts not only make sense to me but also as I read them I'm nodding along thinking of how we can salvage JO's trade value. I also hate that I was happy to see Jeff Foster starting along Troy Murphy today. JO has served this city well, he deserves better than that. Unfortunately, this season has been tough for those of us who still try to defend him.

sweabs
11-26-2007, 03:05 AM
However in fairness to Rick Carlisle I must make one small observation based on the two names you have just mentioned.

What else was differant when we played vs. the Wizards the first time and vs. the Cavs. today?

I think if you look you will see that a certain player is missing from both of those games.

Rick ran a motion offense in the 90's, Rick ran a non-isolation dominated offense in Detroit, Rick ran an uptempo quicker moving offense during the year of suspensions.

There really is about only one time that I know of that Rick ran the complete totall slow down one man in three men out and one half way offense.
Great points. I remember Chauncey Billups was a lot of fun to watch under Carlisle.

Naptown_Seth
11-26-2007, 03:18 AM
We play a fun style of basketball, that the players enjoy. People would enjoy playing in a system like this...that's why you have guys like Gilbert & Lebron complimenting.

It's just such a big change. Players must have, at times, seen the way we played last year and said to themselves "God, that looks horrible."
Neither player would swap spots with JO right now. Both players have now beaten this "fun" team.

I'm betting that Lebron hated getting beat up on by Artest for Thanksgiving, probably thought that system was annoying and dull despite the 22 point drubbing it handed to him. Personally I loved it. I'll take the Pacers making me happy over the Pacers making Lebron happy any day.


I'm not so anti JOB really, but I just can't believe people rushing to fawn over 6-8 because Arenas and Lebron said things look better. I don't need Kobe or someone to tell me if I'm watching a .500 or worse team or not, and I'm really sick of people telling me how much nicer a non-playoff team is compared to team that can get to the 2nd round or more.

rexnom
11-26-2007, 03:20 AM
Neither player would swap spots with JO right now. Both players have now beaten this "fun" team.

I'm betting that Lebron hated getting beat up on by Artest for Thanksgiving, probably thought that system was annoying and dull despite the 22 point drubbing it handed to him. Personally I loved it. I'll take the Pacers making me happy over the Pacers making Lebron happy any day.


I'm not so anti JOB really, but I just can't believe people rushing to fawn over 6-8 because Arenas and Lebron said things look better. I don't need Kobe or someone to tell me if I'm watching a .500 or worse team or not, and I'm really sick of people telling me how much nicer a non-playoff team is compared to team that can get to the 2nd round or more.
I don't think anybody is comparing this team to the 03-04 or 04-05 teams...rather the 05-06 (post-Artest) and 06-07 teams.

Naptown_Seth
11-26-2007, 03:58 AM
I don't think anybody is comparing this team to the 03-04 or 04-05 teams...rather the 05-06 (post-Artest) and 06-07 teams.
No, I assure you that some are. I could name names even but I won't get into that silly bickering at this point. Suffice to say that there has been a general attitude of Rick ball = boring, JOB = a day at the happy fun-time circus.

All the rants and debates about Rick you see me in (and Jackson/GS deal, JO's value, etc) are specifically because of what we see now. This losing team gets labeled fun, and therefore is exonerated from lackluster results, while Rick was literally fired for losing at roughly the same rate after 3 playoff seasons and 2 top 5 coach of the year votes while in Indy (following 2 in DET, including a win).


I'm not oblivious to the concept of uptempo play and the excitement it brings, but I watch PHX and GS and DAL play besides when they face Indy and there is simply no comparison. What I see JOB getting out of this group on offense is no more aesthetically pleasing than what Rick finagled out of a constantly depleted roster for years on end.

There are sparks and signs from guys, Harrison has apparently started to see the light, but there is no way this is dramatically better than the 7-7 Pacers of last season, and that featured Jackson mired in I think his worst month of 3pt shooting in his entire career (ie it was at it's ugliest).


Discount the T-day game from 2 seasons ago, fine. Last year Lebron saw his team lose to the Pacers by 10 on Nov 24th, basically the exact same game they just played yesterday (home, time of year). JO was 8-15 for 29 points, 4 blocks, 5 assists. Only his 6 rebounds were a sub-par number. Again, if I'm voting then I vote for that game vs Sunday's game, regardless of how they appealed to Lebron's taste.

sweabs
11-26-2007, 04:05 AM
I hate to break it to you, Seth, but fun has something to do with this all. It's kind of important that the players actually enjoy the system, whether you want to believe it or not.

maragin
11-26-2007, 06:37 AM
They took away some of Rick's core players in a midseason trade. If they had let him coach the style of ball he is best at coaching (an initiative they are pushing with Obie), I would have liked to see the results. They valued style over substance. "I'm sorry, but you're winning games in a boring way."

Game 8 tirade. Side with JO. Clean up the image. Paint Rick as a fall guy.

He coached a team with mediocre talent admirably. I wish him luck in future endeavors. With any luck, he'll be next in line after Doc Rivers' next screw up.

Erik
11-26-2007, 07:46 AM
i think the only way rick would still be here is if the team would have improved in some way every year (remember bird has a 3 yr. coach rule or something). many other problems caused this team to fail. some players were traded away, some couldn't be traded for a "fair" deal. there were alot of things wrong here, not just his coaching style. he wasn't the victim, just a victim that probably knew it was coming and wanted it to happen so his resume wouldn't be stained any further.

cgg
11-26-2007, 07:50 AM
If you were Lebron James, what would you "like" to see from a team in your division? I'd like to see them losing to me too.

Hicks
11-26-2007, 09:06 AM
Strip it down all you like, but I see positive changes in this team from last year. If it doesn't bottom out, I see them being better for it. Not just from improvement by the young guys, either.

Roaming Gnome
11-26-2007, 10:56 AM
Hey Seth,

Rick's not comming back, so why do you want to keep pissing on everyone's parade? Look, most of us know that this team is not better then in the recent past, and I'm willing to bet most here reallize that the GSW trade isn't comming up all roses, but are willing to move on with any positives we can get from what we have.


Seth, my question to you is...what do you suggest to fix what ills this team? Whineing about who is not here isn't going to fix anything.

Shade
11-26-2007, 12:33 PM
Good riddance to both Rick Carlisle and Stephen Jackson, IMO. I don't miss either of them in the least, and I'm willing to bet that if they were both still here we'd be no better than we currently are; quite possibly worse.

oneofthesedays
11-26-2007, 02:33 PM
I think the Pacers can be a very good team in a few years if they can address their PG situation. Tins is downright awful, not the kind of guy you want running your offense. Also, if you can get an athletic PF that can run up and down to replace JO you'd be set. Your very deep at the C position with Harrison, Murphy, etc. in a conference that doesn't require big centers.

JayRedd
11-26-2007, 03:54 PM
I wonder if Cleveland would like to trade for him. JO and Tins for anything that can wear a uniform would be OK by me.

Tinsley for Shannon Brown and Ira Newble would make me a happy boy.

McKeyFan
11-26-2007, 04:38 PM
For me, there is a big difference right now between Rick and JOB.

JOB is TALKING about the problems and pointing them out. I never heard Rick say that guys are just standing on the perimeter and need to cut.

I never heard Rick call guys out and talk about guys missing defensive assignments, like JOB did after this game (likely Tinsley failing to reverse rotate).

I never heard Rick publicly say he wasn't going to put up with Harrison's antics.

Now, JOB hasn't yet turned all his talk into action. But we can certainly already guess that JOB isn't deferring to players in the same way Rick seemed to. And we can assume that JOB is talking directly to these players, confronting and challenging them.

We haven't see the changes yet, at least not completely. But the ingredients for change seem to be on the table. Let's hope it eventually happens.

Elgin56
11-26-2007, 08:34 PM
Hey Seth,

Rick's not comming back, so why do you want to keep pissing on everyone's parade? Look, most of us know that this team is not better then in the recent past, and I'm willing to bet most here reallize that the GSW trade isn't comming up all roses, but are willing to move on with any positives we can get from what we have.


Seth, my question to you is...what do you suggest to fix what ills this team? Whineing about who is not here isn't going to fix anything.


Gnome, that is what I have been telling him to no avail. You play the games with the players you have not the ones that are loooooong goooone.

JayRedd
11-26-2007, 09:14 PM
Gnome, that is what I have been telling him to no avail. You play the games with the players you have not the ones that are loooooong goooone.

This is true. But most people go to a Pacers discussion forum to talk about wouldas, couldas, shouldas and might-bes.

I, on the other hand, just come to make bad jokes.

Naptown_Seth
11-27-2007, 03:41 PM
Hey Seth,

Rick's not comming back, so why do you want to keep pissing on everyone's parade? Look, most of us know that this team is not better then in the recent past, and I'm willing to bet most here reallize that the GSW trade isn't comming up all roses, but are willing to move on with any positives we can get from what we have.


Seth, my question to you is...what do you suggest to fix what ills this team? Whineing about who is not here isn't going to fix anything.
The pissing is still being done on the Rick parade, that's my issue. Every day is another chance to say "see, with Rick and Jack gone...".

What's the point of saying that? Why do people say stuff like that? Because it's an ongoing debate about how to fix the team from last year that still hasn't been resolved. That's how these things work. Just like we won't stop debating draft picks for years to come, you want to see the results of a choice pan out to back one POV or the other.

Right now a lot of posters have serious emotions invested in JOB being better than Rick and in that GS trade working out for Indy. My biggest problem is exactly that, they've invested emotion into it and aren't comfortable with results that either don't validate the point or counter it.

I wasn't emotional about Rick or Jack until after an onslaught of just outright unreasoned emotional opinions on the issue. I get that sports is emotional, but at the end of the day my attitude is that you still want to remove that part and be reasonable, at least after giving it some time. I don't think keeping Rick or Jack would have worked 100%, both had some faults. But neither was the perfect scapegoat that many posters made them out to be.

And so what happens next? New scapegoat is picked. That attitude would have gotten Reggie traded after a few bad games. Maybe the loss to Boston in the playoffs would have meant that Reggie just "couldn't lead them over the hump", just like JO now. So when I bring the "JOB is the greatest" or "see the GS trade is a big hit" posts back to reality it's really simply me putting this outrageous scapegoating attitude in some perspective.



Now I do think that JOB has had some positive impacts and I also think Rick had some problems (discipline primarily). I just don't think that any fundamental issues were resolved at all. And things like Lebron and Gilbert blowing smoke up my rear don't change that.

The team is "better" than last year when they beat Cleveland, despite only being 6-8 right now? Really? With a 20th rated offense (point per pos)?

You repainted the used car and tried to sell it to me again, but I'm not buying. When this team is REALLY better you'll know it by the results, and I assure all of you I'll be leading the charge to champion that point of view. See my post Utah postings for that proof.

In the meantime stop comforting yourself in the trashing of Rick, Jack, et al. It's too easy for something like this to counter that point:

How important is Stephen Jackson to the Warriors? Without him, their defensive rating was an atrocious 119.1. With him, it's a solid 104.4. And the result is an impressive 4-1 road trip.
The ongoing debate about the 2 most recent major moves rages on, just like people are still debating the non-existing JO to LA trade and if it was smart or not to pass on it.

You don't say "it's in the past, nothing you can do now, let's not debate whether they made the right choice or not". At least I don't see anyone taking that stance. Especially not after the LAL game.

Since86
11-27-2007, 03:48 PM
GIVE UP ON THE DAMN GS TRADE!

second line.

Naptown_Seth
11-27-2007, 03:58 PM
McKey fan, I agree with you somewhat, but I do recall Rick calling out Artest a few years ago, and Ron responding with a great game the next night out. Admittedly that is still rare for Rick, he's nice guy to a fault. We all note it when he comments on his time at Detroit and Indy, as well as how he was let go each time. Even the Zeke situation where he was left dangling was handled with class from his side of it.

That's his thing, non-emotional positivism. Clearly that doesn't work with plenty of athletes. I think post-brawl it was a great attitude, but at other times the team needed fire and brimstone.


But on the point of having favorites have you seen Tinsley's touches/shots lately? Has he not been handed the keys, while Shawne is called out specifically for his defense after a brilliant outing (the only guy to show up that night), followed by Shawne losing a ton of PT out of nowhere?

You tell me who is the better defender and the better shooter, Tins or Shawne? It's the same with Harrison. JOB has cut his PT at times and no one said a word. But when Rick did it people said he wasn't giving him the chance.

Those kinds of silly double standards make me nuts. The fact is that both Rick and JOB are quality coaches and both have had to deal with serious roster challenges in Indy. I'm not really sold that JOB has handled things all that much better. Trade in one pet (JO) for another (Tins). Show an apparent double standard between a vet and a young player.


The only guy I feel like JOB might be reaching is Harrison, and even that is clouded with the contract issue, as in David might now realize that he could be totally out of the NBA and has decided to work on his attitude more. And he could just be getting old enough that he's moving past some of these issues.

But I'm willing to give JOB some of that credit regardless, just due to his feistier attitude.

Naptown_Seth
11-27-2007, 04:09 PM
GIVE UP ON THE DAMN GS TRADE!

second line.
Right after you (general PD populace) give up on all "should have traded JO for..." postings and variations with other players.

Should have works both ways, not just for done deals you like. As is always pointed out in these debates Peck is still not at peace with the JO for Dale trade, and it carries on even now in his view of JO on this team. I actually understand that, I just don't think the results back his POV totally.

I mean it still hasn't even been one freaking year. You guys act like it's ancient history and the effects are long removed. Bird is still here, right? So we definitely still are evaluating his moves, and that includes trades and firings. And before you say Walsh, he's still here too.

Let's say next year we debate if Bird should stay or go, the "data" on that debate is the GS deal, the draft picks, the Saras signing, etc. Saras will be long gone, but the guy who went and got him isn't. Plus moving for him might have eliminated other options at the time that cascaded into the present.

Is the lesson of Bender/AC contract eliminating Brad Miller already forgotten?


We see what players like Fred, Saras, Harrington, Dale, and even Jackson do away from Indy and use that to decide what their real impact here was. Unfortunately in the case of Jack it appears that he is an impact defensive player and does put a spark in teams. So we know that was traded away and might have impacted the team.

The other players have shown very little so you suspect that moving them was less detrimental. Or with Al you even suspect that giving up a pick to get him, and his contract (small as it was) may have been a mistake.

It's not as simple as "it's in the past". Past decisions that impact the present aren't over with.

I'm certain that if JO was traded for Bynum and JO was struggling in LA while Bynum flourished here, not one single person would be "letting it go". Every day that deal "in the past" would be celebrated. And if Bynum flopped while JO won MVP, you think it would be forgotten? Only the JO-haters would want that.

ajbry
11-27-2007, 04:15 PM
GIVE UP ON THE DAMN GS TRADE!

second line.

This attitude is the exact opposite of GSW fans. They talk about the trade very often, with no negative reactions. Pacers fans don't like talking about it (even though it's the most recent impact transaction directly affecting on-floor performance...) because there's not as much satisfaction over the Pacers side of the deal.

It's simple. You and the majority of PD loathe those who bring the GSW trade into discussions, but it's still very relevant and apparently very painful.

Since86
11-27-2007, 04:26 PM
The only thing that's painful is reading every freaking thread and something is relevant about it. Who cares if GSW fans talk about the trade? Good for them. If they start talking about Ellis, should we? What they think is what they think, not what we think.

It may be hard for you to understand, but some of us actually like the trade. We like how it turned out, we don't care about GS and how they beat Dallas last year in the playoffs, whoop-de-freaking-do!

I'm tired of reading the same bull**** over and over in other thread. If Stephen Jackson won the MVP award this year it still wouldn't change my mind, and I doubt many others. It didn't work out here, it never was going to work out. It's done, over with. GET OVER IT!

Since86
11-27-2007, 04:29 PM
Right after you (general PD populace) give up on all "should have traded JO for..." postings and variations with other players.

JO is a relevant discussion. Why? *GASP* He's still here!!!!!!

We're not rehashing things that happened months ago because they're still on going events. No matter how much you ***** about it the trade is done, and it will never reverse itself, thank God for that one.

If you said we keep bringing up Bender, then I would say you have a point, but not JO, not while he's still a Pacer.

Jackson=Not a Pacer, no reason to bring him up every other thread.
JO=Still a Pacer and is relevant to discussions about the Pacers.

Get it?

spazzxb
11-27-2007, 04:46 PM
Neither player would swap spots with JO right now. Both players have now beaten this "fun" team.

I'm betting that Lebron hated getting beat up on by Artest for Thanksgiving, probably thought that system was annoying and dull despite the 22 point drubbing it handed to him. Personally I loved it. I'll take the Pacers making me happy over the Pacers making Lebron happy any day.


I'm not so anti JOB really, but I just can't believe people rushing to fawn over 6-8 because Arenas and Lebron said things look better. I don't need Kobe or someone to tell me if I'm watching a .500 or worse team or not, and I'm really sick of people telling me how much nicer a non-playoff team is compared to team that can get to the 2nd round or more.

so what are you saying? You want Atest, Jackson, harrington and the old coach back? Everyone would like reggie back, I just don't get what your point is. What would Mr. notecard do with the current players on this team?

Peck
11-27-2007, 08:25 PM
Right after you (general PD populace) give up on all "should have traded JO for..." postings and variations with other players.

Should have works both ways, not just for done deals you like. As is always pointed out in these debates Peck is still not at peace with the JO for Dale trade, and it carries on even now in his view of JO on this team. I actually understand that, I just don't think the results back his POV totally.

I mean it still hasn't even been one freaking year. You guys act like it's ancient history and the effects are long removed. Bird is still here, right? So we definitely still are evaluating his moves, and that includes trades and firings. And before you say Walsh, he's still here too.

Let's say next year we debate if Bird should stay or go, the "data" on that debate is the GS deal, the draft picks, the Saras signing, etc. Saras will be long gone, but the guy who went and got him isn't. Plus moving for him might have eliminated other options at the time that cascaded into the present.

Is the lesson of Bender/AC contract eliminating Brad Miller already forgotten?


We see what players like Fred, Saras, Harrington, Dale, and even Jackson do away from Indy and use that to decide what their real impact here was. Unfortunately in the case of Jack it appears that he is an impact defensive player and does put a spark in teams. So we know that was traded away and might have impacted the team.

The other players have shown very little so you suspect that moving them was less detrimental. Or with Al you even suspect that giving up a pick to get him, and his contract (small as it was) may have been a mistake.

It's not as simple as "it's in the past". Past decisions that impact the present aren't over with.

I'm certain that if JO was traded for Bynum and JO was struggling in LA while Bynum flourished here, not one single person would be "letting it go". Every day that deal "in the past" would be celebrated. And if Bynum flopped while JO won MVP, you think it would be forgotten? Only the JO-haters would want that.


Allow me to make this perfectly clear for you. I will say this one more time.

I have never EVER based one single thought of my thoughts on Jermaine O'Neal based on the fact that he was traded for Dale Davis.

Dale was going to be traded no matter what, I heard word for word what he said to Donnie in the office, so I know he was gone and it didn't matter who we got in return.

You were nowhere around the star board when that deal went down so you have no idea what my statements were. Some of you guys were around back then and will remember this but I will tell you again what I said then.

Donnie was far more kind to Dale than I would have been. You would have seen Dale Davis of the Vancouver Grizzley's if it were me.

Look, I make no seceret of the fact that I was a Dale Davis fan when he was on the Pacers. However I never followed him even once when he was with another team.

Unlike some people I know, I will admit that I am a fan of a player and not constantly try and blow it off as though I am some mighty crusader for right and justice when in fact I'm just a fan of a player. No names mentioned of course.

Now where you have heard me make statements over the years is that I don't believe that it was as one sided of a win for the Pacers in trade overall. Individual talent? Sure without a doubt. But overall??? Nope.

My problems with Jermaine stem from him, noboby else.

Because like you said, Rick and Jax were not the problem. We've removed every single player on this team but three and there are times we still have the exact same problems on the offensive end.

Two of those three players play all of the time and we don't seem to have those problems when they are present.

However one person remains, and when that one person plays somehow, someway our entire style of play changes with him.

How is it that players who cut and move and pass the ball every other single min. of the game seem to just stand on the corners and watch when that player is in the game?

It is either

A. They forget how to play basketball.
B. They are instructed to "space the floor" and only have one cutter.
C. Figure what is the point of moving as that player will hold the ball for 5 sec. and then only pass if he doesn't fade away.
D. both B & C

Oh what's the use...

Anthem
11-27-2007, 10:37 PM
Allow me to make this perfectly clear for you. I will say this one more time.

I have never EVER based one single thought of my thoughts on Jermaine O'Neal based on the fact that he was traded for Dale Davis.
Ok, I really don't want to be a part of this discussion. But Peck, that's just not true. You've said so yourself. I don't know how to find the thread (how many threads use the words Dale, Jermaine, and trade? Lots), but this hasn't always been your position.

I believe you when you say this is your position now, but if you say it's NEVER been an issue then you're in denial.

Elgin56
11-27-2007, 10:55 PM
What really pisses me off are the few posters who actually blame the Pacer brass for trading Jackson. Get a freaking clue, they had no choice but to trade him. He forced them into trading him through his off court behavior. Why in the hell feel sorry for him, he made his bed so let him sleep in it. If rooting for the current Pacer team gives you heartburn, than go root for Golden State, just that simple.

brichard
11-28-2007, 12:02 AM
Jax needed to go b/c he became a reason for people to not want to buy tickets and/or support the team. Talent and wins and losses aside, for him and the Pacer fan base he needed to go almost as quickly as Artest.

Rick needed to go more for Rick than anybody else. There isn't a coach who could have done more with the team that he had. People hated the style, but most seem to understand that like it or not it was our best chance of winning with JO. But... it was boring... and he could do nothing about it. The brawl happened... and he couldn't do anything about it. He was considered negative by some former players, so instead of using the media to call out players... he couldn't do anything about it.

Sometimes a coach and a player need to part ways from a team, even when it isn't necessarily their fault. And really Nap, I'm not sure there is much else to say. But I will contend that W's count for alot more butts in the seats than style does. I'm probably more on your side on this debate than most, and you have the right to express your views, but I think you have articulated them logically in the past. It's just over, and we are what we are.

The problem with this current team isn't their offense, defense, or effort. My biggest concern with this team is that it doesn't have any balls, and you don't win playoff games without balls. And not basketballs... I know what you are thinking. :cool:

Diogu is the one guy who could possibly give us that personality... I hope he does.

Peck
11-28-2007, 02:54 AM
Ok, I really don't want to be a part of this discussion. But Peck, that's just not true. You've said so yourself. I don't know how to find the thread (how many threads use the words Dale, Jermaine, and trade? Lots), but this hasn't always been your position.

I believe you when you say this is your position now, but if you say it's NEVER been an issue then you're in denial.

Nope, in this case I am going to go ahead and say it.

Find it.

This is the second time in the last month you have made this statement about me and my thoughts on Jermaine & Dale. I let the first one go, I'm not letting this one go.

I know my position on the trade. I knew it when it happened, I knew it after it happened, I knew it in years 1-7 after it happened.

If you can find the post where I said, "man I can't stand Jermaine O'Neal because he was traded for Dale Davis" I will issue you a public apology and I will get Hicks to stickey it to the top of the board.

As I said in my first post here, I don't believe it was the lopsided trade that many consider it. But that is my own opinion and even if it is off the wall crazy I am entitled to it, just like you are entitled to yours.

My problems with Jermaine O'Neal have nothing to do with who he was traded for. They are all about Jermaine O'Neal and always have been.

So go dig it up. Dig it up and I will gladly say I am wrong.