PDA

View Full Version : J.O. definately not playing tonight vs. Mavs



Erik
11-23-2007, 01:58 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071123/SPORTS04/71123020
not really suprising news. although i'm not anti-j.o., i think i'll enjoy this one better without him. sure wish ike would make an unexpected comeback.

Shade
11-23-2007, 02:32 PM
In other news, the world is round, the sky is blue, and Bill Belichick is an *******.

Seriously, though, we may as well sit him for however long it takes until he is fully healthy.

Speed
11-23-2007, 02:41 PM
Having an MRI today, this could be interesting.

Shade
11-23-2007, 02:43 PM
Having an MRI today, this could be interesting.

"That looks like a (three) monther."

Pacemaker
11-23-2007, 02:43 PM
I'm tired of this O'neal saga, tired of his injuries, tired of his subpar performances, tired of him no stepping as a leader or at least as a go-to-guy. Didn't off-season reports stated O'neal being more healthy and eager than ever? As of right now I think he is way overrated in Pacerland. TRADE or BUST!!! :censored:

Speed
11-23-2007, 03:13 PM
Does anyone know what the tentative target date for Ike to come back is?

I'd love for him to get extended minutes if JO shuts it down, which I bet and hope they do.

Erik
11-23-2007, 03:58 PM
maybe a couple of weeks? i think it was a couple of weeks ago when he first went down, and they said we were looking at about a month.

Speed
11-23-2007, 04:14 PM
maybe a couple of weeks? i think it was a couple of weeks ago when he first went down, and they said we were looking at about a month.


Thanks, I think it would be a great opportunity for Ike to try to take on more responsibility and for the organization to see where they are with him, he was really starting to put some things together.

NapTonius Monk
11-23-2007, 04:16 PM
I hope JO isn't headed for that microfracture knee surgery...:(

BoomBaby33
11-23-2007, 04:22 PM
Does anyone know what the tentative target date for Ike to come back is?

I'd love for him to get extended minutes if JO shuts it down, which I bet and hope they do.


I think they said 3-4 more weeks a couple games ago. :(

Actually with a torn calf muscle, its better that he wait longer I would assume, rather than being 75% to start back, then re-injuring it. I want him back at 100% at the expense of a couple more weeks up front.

Lord Helmet
11-23-2007, 04:51 PM
Sit him until he is healthy.

BlueNGold
11-23-2007, 05:12 PM
Another year where JO makes millions and only plays a portion of the season. Why am I not surprised?

We all better hope and pray he recovers and looks good in January. Then, deal him to the highest bidder before the deadline. This might be the last chance to get any value...and no this is not chicken little. As long as we at least get a salary cut, we come out ahead.

Evan_The_Dude
11-23-2007, 05:22 PM
This might become an intersting scenario. If J.O. is forced to miss extended action (like 1-3 months) and we go on a nice run during that time, do we bring him back when it's time and risk messing up the chemistry we've built or do we trade him? Could we have seen J.O.'s last game in a Pacers uniform?

tora tora
11-23-2007, 05:27 PM
Could we have seen J.O.'s last game in a Pacers uniform?

::pray::

ABADays
11-23-2007, 05:43 PM
I guess this could be construed as bashing but, sincerely, it's not. JO has never been a leader. He is very injury prone - very. He doesn't fit into this offensive "scheme" and, in my mind, he has never been a FRANCHISE player. His trade value is virtually nil and we are stuck with a franchise player contract when there is every question of who is even the best player on the team.

bellisimo
11-23-2007, 06:07 PM
I guess this could be construed as bashing but, sincerely, it's not. JO has never been a leader. He is very injury prone - very. He doesn't fit into this offensive "scheme" and, in my mind, he has never been a FRANCHISE player. His trade value is virtually nil and we are stuck with a franchise player contract when there is every question of who is even the best player on the team.

QFT -

IMHO - JO was just forced into a leader role by TPTB and marketing to label him as the new face of Pacers as Uncle Reg was on his way outta here...

Speed
11-23-2007, 06:16 PM
The whole problem about trading JO now is its like the stock market, you don't sell low. I would guess this moment his stock is the lowest its been, ever.

bellisimo
11-23-2007, 06:22 PM
The whole problem about trading JO now is its like the stock market, you don't sell low. I would guess this moment his stock is the lowest its been, ever.

considering how the JO trade speculations have dissolved with his outings....I'd say you're on target

NuffSaid
11-23-2007, 06:55 PM
This might become an intersting scenario. If J.O. is forced to miss extended action (like 1-3 months) and we go on a nice run during that time, do we bring him back when it's time and risk messing up the chemistry we've built or do we trade him? Could we have seen J.O.'s last game in a Pacers uniform?
It's a shame that a fluke from JO and the Pacers' past should get credibility even before it really happens. All it does is spawn premature speculation.

JO may be injured again and the team surely are trying to run and they may even have some success doing so w/o JO's help, but to suggest he should be traded or that he should lose his starting role upon his return even before we know how well the team will perform while he's out..

I think we all need to just take a big step back and wait to see how things unfold before going back to ESPN's Trade Machine or declaring JO a lost cause. Give him a chance to get healthy and then let's see how him performs within JOB's system at 100%. If his numbers don't improve at or near his 20/10 standard, I'll fall in step behind the rest of the nay-sayers and petition for JO to be gone myself!

Speed
11-23-2007, 07:00 PM
It's a shame that a fluke from JO and the Pacers' past should get credibility even before it really happens. All it does is spawn premature speculation.

JO may be injured again and the team surely are trying to run and they may even have some success doing so w/o JO's help, but to suggest he should be traded or that he should lose his starting role upon his return even before we know how well the team will perform while he's out..

I think we all need to just take a big step back and wait to see how things unfold before going back to ESPN's Trade Machine or declaring JO a lost cause. Give him a chance to get healthy and then let's see how him performs within JOB's system at 100%. If his numbers don't improve at or near his 20/10 standard, I'll fall in step behind the rest of the nay-sayers and petition for JO to be gone myself!

Agreed.

Evan_The_Dude
11-23-2007, 07:42 PM
It's a shame that a fluke from JO and the Pacers' past should get credibility even before it really happens. All it does is spawn premature speculation.

JO may be injured again and the team surely are trying to run and they may even have some success doing so w/o JO's help, but to suggest he should be traded or that he should lose his starting role upon his return even before we know how well the team will perform while he's out..

I think we all need to just take a big step back and wait to see how things unfold before going back to ESPN's Trade Machine or declaring JO a lost cause. Give him a chance to get healthy and then let's see how him performs within JOB's system at 100%. If his numbers don't improve at or near his 20/10 standard, I'll fall in step behind the rest of the nay-sayers and petition for JO to be gone myself!


I'd say the majority of the people on this board enjoy watching the Pacers minus J.O. and that's been the case for the last 2 seasons. How long has J.O. been in and out of the lineup with injuries? Since the brawl year? I think that's when it started showing that we're a better and more enjoyable team to watch when Jermaine isn't playing. Sure, we'd like to fit our "Superstar" into our new system and have him playing a part in this new era, but are we being realistic here?

What put us into the position we're in now is hopes and wishes.

We hoped Ron Artest would get his act together so he can be a contributor to this team. We hoped Jonothan Bender would get over his knee issues and be the next big thing. We hoped Stephen Jackson would be able to keep his mouth shut and stop barking at the ref's, and we hoped his legal woes wouldn't hurt the way the fans looked at this team. We hoped that Jamaal Tinsley would finally become that player we saw flashes of in his rookie season [which this season he's doing much much better]. We hoped Sarunas Jasikevicious would turn us into a running team. We've been hoping Jermaine would be able to be healthy and help this team win games.

Aren't you guys tired of hopes and dreams? Don't you want to see a realistic plan for the future? Jermaine at 29 years old can't stay healthy. Why are we building a team around his abilities? Why are we still expecting him to be a 20-10 guy? He's NOT a 20-10 guy anymore. Or should I say, him being a 20-10 guy in this system won't work. It will take him too many missed jump shots to hit 20 points. He's a post guy that we brought in shooters and, had our current players improving their shots over the summer to play around. Yet, he wants to shoot himself. That's why it's not working. You can't build a jump shooting team around just a jump shooter.

It would take J.O. to realize he's not going to EVER take over as the #1 option, and he'd have to stay healthy to be effective for this team. Otherwise we're unrealistically leaning on a guy that THINKS he's still a 20-10 guy to go out there and try to get his 20 points because he thinks that's going to help us win, all the while slowing things down (though it's not that bad these days), and then we have to sit back and hope that he can stay healthy. Then WHEN he's hurt, we have to comprimise and change the teams strategy due to his absence.

Look, I know injuries happen, but like with Bender, there comes a time when enough is enough and you have to move on. Having him in and out of the lineup with him being our supposed leader is going to do nothing for our future. I'm not saying what we should do with him, but I'm saying he shouldn't be playing here anymore. I like the guy, I've met the guy in person and he's a really really great friendly person, but this team is headed in a direction where his services are probably better suited for another team. We're finally moving forward, slowly, but we're making progress. It's time to let go of what's not working.

BoomBaby33
11-23-2007, 09:46 PM
I guess this could be construed as bashing but, sincerely, it's not. JO has never been a leader. He is very injury prone - very. He doesn't fit into this offensive "scheme" and, in my mind, he has never been a FRANCHISE player. His trade value is virtually nil and we are stuck with a franchise player contract when there is every question of who is even the best player on the team.

ABA - you've hit the nail on the head. I don't see it bashing, I see it as the plain truth, and I've been saying your exact sentiment here about JO's leadership skills for a long time. I will admit, at one point before the brawl, he was a player that at least lived up to his contract (I think the year he was runner up for MVP - before the brawl), but other than that year he has not lived up to his franchise player tag.

Speed has it correct here too. Its very hard to sell low - thats why I wish they had figured out over the summer to trade him to LA. Showcasing him in Obie's system is going to be hard, unless Obie changes his strategy back to RC's system temporarily. Oneal, was very good in RC's system. You can only hope that LB can turn into a car salesman overnight to some team and sell a old chevy and get the price of a cadillac back for him, or at least some draft picks. We are fine without JO as we are now anyway. Plus, we lose his horrendous contract - the Simons have to hating that right about now, with only about 8-10000 fans each game.

gilpdawg
11-23-2007, 10:59 PM
Someone will take him for pennies on the dollar. He could be the missing piece to get a team over the top. On this team however, he's basically worthless.

Shade
11-24-2007, 01:00 AM
I guess this could be construed as bashing but, sincerely, it's not. JO has never been a leader. He is very injury prone - very. He doesn't fit into this offensive "scheme" and, in my mind, he has never been a FRANCHISE player. His trade value is virtually nil and we are stuck with a franchise player contract when there is every question of who is even the best player on the team.

I have to somewhat disagree with you, ABA. When JO was at his peak and had a good team around him, he was amazing. He came in 3rd in MVP voting a few seasons ago for a reason.

Alas, his chronic knee issues and the dwindling of talent around him have led to his current form.

Hoop
11-24-2007, 01:17 AM
If JO could get over his self and except a role that doesn't involve him being the number one option on offense, he could really help us when he's healthy.

He needs to just play D, block shots and rebound and only take higher quality shots, not fade away weak @ss outside shots. He could take our defense from mediocre to very good.

Reckoner
11-24-2007, 01:18 AM
A few points:

1. He should not be played when injured. As we've seen this season his production drops dramatically. A fit Murphy is better than an unfit JO. It also hurts his trade AND makes the injury problem worse, or at the very least delays it's full recovery. Nothing infuriates me more in sports than teams (and they do this all over the world) playing unfit guys on reputation because for every heroic performance there dozens of times when it backfires.

2. If the Pacers medicos are not confident that he can get back to full fitness then I'd trade him for expiring contracts and draft picks. No hesitation at all.

CableKC
11-24-2007, 03:18 AM
Some things I would like to point out....I too think that the ball movement and offense appears to run alot better with JONeal off the court.....but I think that we would likely miss the one thing that he did bring to the court when he was healthy....his defensive presense.

I mentioned this before when we tossed around the idea of moving Foster last season......don't complain about the defense if JONeal is moved.

Admittedly, I am in the "Let's see how this offense runs without JONeal out and then see how we do with a healthy JONeal" camp before deciding to move on with or without him.....but I also recognize that our defense will suffer if he is not in the lineup. If he is moved....we have to get a Big Man that can solidly defend, run, rebound and can reasonably score as a 3rd/4th scoring option. Also...while we are at it....we might as well get a solid backup perimeter defender at the PG or SG position.

Hicks
11-24-2007, 11:41 AM
FWIW, I thought our defense was pretty good last night.

BoomBaby33
11-24-2007, 11:57 AM
FWIW, I thought our defense was pretty good last night.

I agree 100%. Sure, we gave up over 100 points, but the weak side help defense was great, and we only got dinged for 1 defensive 3 seconds.

Elgin56
11-25-2007, 02:59 PM
I guess this could be construed as bashing but, sincerely, it's not. JO has never been a leader. He is very injury prone - very. He doesn't fit into this offensive "scheme" and, in my mind, he has never been a FRANCHISE player. His trade value is virtually nil and we are stuck with a franchise player contract when there is every question of who is even the best player on the team.
++


How can that be? I thought it was Dun and Murph with those kind of contracts.;)