PDA

View Full Version : Conseco Fieldhouse



Smashed_Potato
11-20-2007, 11:59 PM
I don't want to sound, hypocritical but the arena looks pretty bad it's half- empty it looks non-sounding and not a very pretty sight to see. yet I see Jim O'Brien promoting to people in Indiana on the commercial about the great Conseco Fieldhouse.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

idioteque
11-21-2007, 12:04 AM
Aesthetically CF is a great place...if you're suggesting that the building itself is ugly then you're contradicting the numerous members of the media who have said that it's the best place to watch basketball in the NBA, period.

Yes, the place is half empty right now but you have to remember Indiana fans are very fickle. When we were bad throughout the 80's and into the early 90's there was a similar situation at Market Square.

Despite this poor attendance Indiana is known as the capital of basketball in the United States and fans have fervently supported the Pacers in the past. With all the turmoil this team has dealt with over the last 3 years with the brawl and NUMEROUS incidents that happened afterward, there's no surprise that the arena is empty.

Hicks
11-21-2007, 12:14 AM
Are you trashing the actual building? Get the hell out of here with that BS. Especially if you've never stepped foot inside it.

Smashed_Potato
11-21-2007, 12:15 AM
I think the arena is beautiful just that the half-empty seats and the overall atmosphere was not a pretty sight.

Hicks
11-21-2007, 12:17 AM
Atmosphere? Yeah, that is a problem right now, but it's not too shocking to me either.

Smashed_Potato
11-21-2007, 12:24 AM
I hope the fan-base and the team rises in the future. you guys will be good in no time but currently the fan-base seems disinterested in the team and that should be a concern for the Management.

BlueNGold
11-21-2007, 12:29 AM
I feel good (and surprised) that it was even half full. This is the bed that the franchise made for itself. They are lucky to have a bed at all.

...and I don't think the fans should be blamed one bit. I understand that some of the fans are fickle. This is partially due to not having a huge market. ...but let's not confuse the nature of the market with the actual cause of the bad attendance. The majority of fans "who have left the building" had good reason to do so...and I highly doubt that the W/L record was that reason.

Smashed_Potato
11-21-2007, 12:41 AM
Brawl and Off-court problems BlueNGold?

LAPacer
11-21-2007, 12:49 AM
Would trading the remaining members of the brawl and 8 second saloon bring back fans? It might help, but I would think winning would bring fans better than anything else.

DGPR
11-21-2007, 12:57 AM
Winning or losing and drafting a certain IU standout who shall remain nameless. I would definitely be going to more games then.

BlueNGold
11-21-2007, 01:10 AM
Brawl and Off-court problems BlueNGold?

Yes and trading all the brawl players doesn't fix it either.

Winning and losing fans is not a simple formula tied directly to winning and losing games. They are certainly correlated, but it's just more complicated than that. Losing games generally result in some fans losing interest. Time spans also play into it. The acts of the last few years DROVE fans away in large numbers...more quickly and in larger numbers than mediocre play could ever accomplish. Winning back fans involves different factors than retaining them because people become fans for different reasons than people stay fans of a team.

So, yes, winning is what it will take to fill up the fieldhouse....but losing is not why it's not closer to capacity.

Trader Joe
11-21-2007, 01:24 AM
I hope the fan-base and the team rises in the future. you guys will be good in no time but currently the fan-base seems disinterested in the team and that should be a concern for the Management.

Pretty much half the NBA has issues with attendance and fan support...

Smashed_Potato
11-21-2007, 02:12 AM
I remember watching Conseco Fieldhouse during the 99-00 season and the playoffs... My goodness the arena was great now it just seems different.

grace
11-21-2007, 02:31 AM
I wouldn't get too bent out of shape unless it's still like this after football season is over. Indiana is not the only arena that has horrible attendance this year. Overall I think attendance has to be down across the board.

oneofthesedays
11-21-2007, 03:14 AM
The thing that is startling is that basketball is huge in Indiana. There are towns that literally shut down for highschool games. Conseco Fieldhouse is one of the few, if not the only, NBA arena designed solely for basketball. The lack of fan support seems shocking to me.

Peck
11-21-2007, 03:26 AM
I was actually wondering this during the game. I have been going to Pacers games on a regular basis since 1985 and to the best of my memory this was the smallest crowd for the Lakers that I can remember.

Even in the dark days of the 80's the Lake show drew in a few extra thousand to witness them.

You would expect this low of a crowd on a Tuesday night in November for the Bucks or the Hornets, but the Lakers????

Times have changed.

Sollozzo
11-21-2007, 03:43 AM
I've always found the whole "Hoosier Hysteria" and "capital of basketball" thing to be a little bogus. And it definitely has no place in a Pacer discussion. "Hoosier Hysteria" is based soley on the love of the High School one class basketball tournament. And the hype about that has been greatly reduced over the past decade with the addition of class basketball.

The whole "Indiana loves basketball" thing has never really had much to do with the Pacers. It all comes from the high school tourney and then from the obsession with Indiana Hoosiers basketball. It's not about the Pacers, and it never was. Sure, fans showed up when the team was a perennial contender. But that basically happens everywhere.

"Hoosier Hysteria" comes from a small town team beating a huge school in the tourney. It's about the filled high school gyms come tourney time. It's certainly not about the Pacers. Most of the people in these towns could care less about the Pacers, given the fact that the Pacers fanbase is practically exclusive to metro Indianapolis (Pacers are mostly at fault for that).

I honestly can't believe people are suprised at this. The Pacers fan base certainly isn't the epitome of a loyal, great fanbase. When the average person in this state wants to witness competitive basketball, they're going to look at College and High School first. With IU back on the map, Purdue on the verge of revitalizing a solid program, and Butler being way up there, there just isn't much time for the Pacers. Not to mention that there's a super bowl champion across the street. If people want to spend their money on pro sports, they're likely to hit the Colts first.

Trader Joe
11-21-2007, 03:50 AM
I've always found the whole "Hoosier Hysteria" and "capital of basketball" thing to be a little bogus. And it definitely has no place in a Pacer discussion. "Hoosier Hysteria" is based soley on the love of the High School one class basketball tournament. And the hype about that has been greatly reduced over the past decade with the addition of class basketball.

The whole "Indiana loves basketball" thing has never really had much to do with the Pacers. It all comes from the high school tourney and then from the obsession with Indiana Hoosiers basketball. It's not about the Pacers, and it never was. Sure, fans showed up when the team was a perennial contender. But that basically happens everywhere.

"Hoosier Hysteria" comes from a small town team beating a huge school in the tourney. It's about the filled high school gyms come tourney time. It's certainly not about the Pacers. Most of the people in these towns could care less about the Pacers, given the fact that the Pacers fanbase is practically exclusive to metro Indianapolis (Pacers are mostly at fault for that).

100% agree with this. The state of Indiana's love of basketball has never been about the Pacers. The Pacers have just benefitted from it when they were good, now that they are bad people aren't going to spend money to go see a team it never had a real love affair with. Same thing is true with the Colts. This state likes amateur sports a lot more than it likes pro sports.

indygeezer
11-21-2007, 06:23 AM
During the ABA days this town was rockin' Pacer Blue...once they started winning championships and we had people the fans loved to follow. But what you are saying about our love of HS and College game coming first is true. However, the IHSAA and Big 10 Network are doing their best to destroy that interest too.

Times change. There didn't used to be much interest in football around here, but now every HS has a team and the college game has become more popular...then we have the Colts. A highly competitive team with players like Manning, Harrison, Freeney, and Saunders et al is hard to ignore when you are determining where to place your entertainment dollars, but it is easy to promote if you are in competition with the likes of Artest and the gang. And yes, that includes JO who has never been embraced by the local gendry.

Erik
11-21-2007, 07:34 AM
some really great points in these last few posts. things that i've kinda thought but never wanted to believe. my brother and i work together in the same department and are huge pacer fans through thick and thin. we talk about it and are suprised that everyone else is shocked that we stick by them. we are shocked that everyone is so quick to jump ship when a few bad years roll around. i guess it makes sense that there are not alot of "true" pacer fans around, not as many as i once thought.

Eindar
11-21-2007, 07:50 AM
Fact is, this is one of the worst fair weather fanbases in the country. I'd say what you're seeing in Conseco are the true blue Pacers fans. The rest of them moved down the street to the RCA Dome when the Colts started winning and the Pacers started losing.

If we draft Eric Gordon and Peyton Manning retires, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Conseco rocking, and everyone hanging "Go Pacers" banners from every available surface 10 years from now.

It's just the nature of the town.

indygeezer
11-21-2007, 08:04 AM
Totally disagree Eindar. It's that way in ALL NBA towns. The fact is the NBA doesn't attract loyalty the way long established NFL teams do (and I'm not including the Colts in that because we haven't the local history the Packers or Bears etc. do) The fact is, pro basketball just isn't liked across the US as football is, heck, it's barely above hockey in ratings.

RWB
11-21-2007, 09:51 AM
I was actually wondering this during the game. I have been going to Pacers games on a regular basis since 1985 and to the best of my memory this was the smallest crowd for the Lakers that I can remember.

Even in the dark days of the 80's the Lake show drew in a few extra thousand to witness them.

You would expect this low of a crowd on a Tuesday night in November for the Bucks or the Hornets, but the Lakers????

Times have changed.

There were a lot of Laker jerseys in the crowd last night too. If it had been a game against as you say the Bucks it really would have been dead. But I believe having more entertainers riding bikes at half time will quickly cure the attendance ills. :devil:



On the collecting junk meter......it was a 5. Mrs. RWB came away once again with two bud lite tee shirts and a yellow mini P basketball.

Putnam
11-21-2007, 10:13 AM
Good points all around.

But I ask you all to remember that it is not only a question of basketball or not. People don't look in the mirror and ask themselves, "Shall I hold the Pacers in my heart, or shall I absent me from felicity a while and draw my breath in pain?"

Basketball is one entertainment/leisure option out of a growing list of choices. The people of Indianapolis -- not counting the suburbs and the rest of the state -- spend nearly $3 billion a year on leisure. But they spend it on bowling and gambling casinos and drama and opera and titty bars and premium cable and methamphetamine and fitness clubs and collectable porcelain and home theaters and trips to Bahama and golf outings and the zoo and Longaberger baskets and one or two other things. (What did I leave out?)

No discussion of pro basketball attendance is sensible unless it takes into account the proliferation of alternatives. As recently as the '70s, there weren't so many alternatives. Now there are, and pro basketball has to do a better job of attracting people to come out.

Question: How many people here on this forum will attend fewer games this year, regardless of the Pacers W/L record, because you chose to get NBA season pass instead of buying tickets to atend games?

RamBo_Lamar
11-21-2007, 10:37 AM
Alot of folks who may have gone to games in '99-'00 may not have as much
money to throw around now.

Between economic setbacks, ever increasing fuel costs, and Government
continually stealing peoples money in the form of excessive taxation, the
belt has to be tightened somewhere.

It better be a pretty darned good, even championship caliber team to cause
fans to attend games with the current ticket prices, when a choice has to
be made between between:

A.) Being entertained (while often already deeply in debt).
or
B.) Getting essential bills paid.


If lower concourse seats cost no more than $35 (which they SHOULD),
there would be no problem filling the arena. The NBA is simply continuing
to price itself out of business.

grace
11-21-2007, 01:45 PM
And then there's the fact that almost all of the games are on local TV. With the advent of big screen HD surround sound TVs why go out and fight traffic, pay God knows what to park and a ridiculous amount for food and souvenirs when you can stay home and save $3/gallon on gas?

Doug
11-21-2007, 02:00 PM
And then there's the fact that almost all of the games are on local TV. With the advent of big screen HD surround sound TVs why go out and fight traffic, pay God knows what to park and a ridiculous amount for food and souvenirs when you can stay home and save $3/gallon on gas?

Fight traffic? Parking?

I came from the north side and there were zero traffic problems. Both in and out.

Parking? $3

Buying food or souvenirs? That's pretty optional, do you think?


Complain about the product on the floor all you want, or the cost of lower-level tickets, but traffic, parking, and food/souvenir costs don't really factor in here.

Now, if you were going to a Bulls game, traffic and parking cost would be a legit complaint... :-)

RWB
11-21-2007, 02:05 PM
I really need to hunt around for cheaper parking I guess. $8 bucks everytime unless I pull into the Hard Rock garage.

Souvenirs I would agree is optional since they are constantly handing out some much carnival junk.

Seems we always buy something from the concessions though.

NapTonius Monk
11-21-2007, 02:11 PM
Totally disagree Eindar. It's that way in ALL NBA towns. The fact is the NBA doesn't attract loyalty the way long established NFL teams do (and I'm not including the Colts in that because we haven't the local history the Packers or Bears etc. do) The fact is, pro basketball just isn't liked across the US as football is, heck, it's barely above hockey in ratings.

Agreed. Pro basketball can be so unbearable at times. That's not to even mention the off-court stuff. The on-court product is tough to keep focused on. With the exception of those who play great team ball.

D23
11-21-2007, 02:12 PM
As for the arena itself, it's top notch; one of the best venues in all of pro sports. That being said, I do agree wholeheartedly with many of you on the whole 'atmosphere' issue. I can't remember who it was, but one of the regulars here said he recently went to a game and it was just "boring." However, without the seats being filled first, it seems it's just hard to get that atmosphere back. It's almost like a Catch-22... provide a great atmosphere and the fans will come back, but the fans are a big part of what provides that atmosphere.:shrug:

One thing that I definitely think would help is to bring in a new sound/entertainment coordinator. Has anyone else gotten tired of the same cheesy sound effects for the last 8+ years (the big redneck noise that goes "DEFENSE!! DEFENSE!!")? I understand they want crowd participation but it almost seems gimmicky and a bit forced/overdone. I know it'll never be like a college game atmosphere because it's an older audience and a longer game, and not everyone is comfortable standing and shouting for the entire time.

Personally, I'd like to see the people in charge of gametime entertainment (PS&E?) come up with an entirely fresh set of sound-effects, but only use them about half as much as they do now. Heck i think it'd be cool to only have the organ-style arena music playing like Madison Square Garden from the 90's... so many cool memories of that. And they need to change up the music during breaks. No more rap (alienates the folks who already have a problem with the team's image), no more oldies (alienates the younger crowd), and if you're going to compromise then don't play pop-crap that couldn't fire up a phatty in Jamaica (i.e. Gwen Stafani). Get some good new-age clean rock or something. Look at the Kings and Spurs for examples.

I dunno, maybe this stuff would make a big difference, maybe not. I don't think it could make attendance any worse. At least one thing we have going for us is that Reb Porter's still one of the best PA announcers in the league. God only knows how bad it would be if we had the Lakers' guy (has anyone ever noticed this guy could put an entire third-world country to sleep in less than 6 words?), or the Spurs guy (just not a good voice IMO). Or even worse, the HEAT guy ("DAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNY GRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAyyyyyNGER!!!!......... FROM J.T!" :suicide5:)

D23
11-21-2007, 02:16 PM
I really need to hunt around for cheaper parking I guess. $8 bucks everytime unless I pull into the Hard Rock garage.


I always park at the "Express Park" garage on the corner of Market & Pennsylvania. It's 3-4 blocks away but not bad. Plus it's only $3 to park during a game night. However, one thing I've done a few times before is to park at the garage several hours before the game, before they start doing the $3 general admission, so you actually get a ticket and don't pay when you go in. Then you spend a few hours downtown, grab a bite to eat, go to the game, then leave with everyone else right after the game... they won't even ask to see your ticket... they just let everyone leave because they assume everyone paid the $3. Boom! free parking for several hours :happydanc

NapTonius Monk
11-21-2007, 02:20 PM
Alot of folks who may have gone to games in '99-'00 may not have as much
money to throw around now.

Between economic setbacks, ever increasing fuel costs, and Government
continually stealing peoples money in the form of excessive taxation, the
belt has to be tightened somewhere.

It better be a pretty darned good, even championship caliber team to cause
fans to attend games with the current ticket prices, when a choice has to
be made between between:

A.) Being entertained (while often already deeply in debt).
or
B.) Getting essential bills paid.

Pacers had trouble selling out with $4 tix...I'm not saying that the economy isn't a part of it, but it's the same economy for the RCA dome crowd as well. The Pacers are just an unappealing product right now.

FlavaDave
11-21-2007, 02:32 PM
This team needs a couple 30+ point games from Granger. They need some more awesome break-away dunks from Shawne Williams. They need some alley-oops from Tinsley to JO.

Or, they need a 6+ game winning streak.

Why? Because they need something positive and sticky for people to talk about.

What is sticky? It's the kind of thing that makes people say, "Hey, did you hear about.........." Like Colbert running for President. Or Beowolf being all CGI. Or the Celtics trading for two All-Stars.

Other than Granger's East Player of the Week award and the 3-0 start, the Pacers have done nothing notable. Nothing positive for people to talk about.

D23
11-21-2007, 02:36 PM
Other than Granger's East Player of the Week award and the 3-0 start, the Pacers have done nothing notable. Nothing positive for people to talk about.


Did you hear, Harrison didn't foul out last night? That's notable in my book.

Naptown_Seth
11-21-2007, 02:46 PM
100% agree with this. The state of Indiana's love of basketball has never been about the Pacers. The Pacers have just benefitted from it when they were good, now that they are bad people aren't going to spend money to go see a team it never had a real love affair with. Same thing is true with the Colts. This state likes amateur sports a lot more than it likes pro sports.
I've made this case ad nauseam too. That was one of my points with the "fans demand they trade Jack or they won't show up". Obviously that was BS. Jackson is long gone, place is more empty than ever.

The Indy fanbase for both the Pacers and Colts is crazy fickle. The Colts I got, they were transplanted and mostly bad for so many years that fans maybe were growing into the team. But years into the Manning/Harrison era they still struggled to fill up one of the smallest stadiums around.

Regardless, the Pacers have a LONG tradition in this city and it started out with tons of winning and ABA heroes. Then they had a 2nd insane run of winning that just actually ended mid-season last year. I mean even the brawl year was a SECOND ROUND PLAYOFF season. When that's not impressive you know you've got jaded/fickle fans.

Conseco is a great arena to see a game and even as configured the Pacers are still a solid bargin. Seeing tons of empty $10 seats is pathetic. There is no excuse for the local fanbase IMO. Sellouts I realize are going to be lacking, but running the attendance back down to 20-62 season caliber for a team flirting with .500 is indefensible.

Naptown_Seth
11-21-2007, 02:49 PM
I really need to hunt around for cheaper parking I guess. $8 bucks everytime unless I pull into the Hard Rock garage.

Souvenirs I would agree is optional since they are constantly handing out some much carnival junk.

Seems we always buy something from the concessions though.
:eek:

NEVER, EVER pay $8 to park in downtown Indy. Cripes, 3 blocks away is Washington/New Jersey which is free after 6/weekends. If Able can walk from that Days Inn to the game then anyone can make it. ;) :D

Or move downtown and walk like I do. :dance:

avoidingtheclowns
11-21-2007, 03:10 PM
Fight traffic? Parking?

I came from the north side and there were zero traffic problems. Both in and out.

Parking? $3

Buying food or souvenirs? That's pretty optional, do you think?

i think she means for more casual fans. for more passionate ones it seems like an easy choice (live vs. tv) but obviously what conseco is missing at this point is the casual fans willing to see a game in person.



Or move downtown and walk like I do. :dance:

it should be noted that moderators are on the record as saying they do not advise or condone doing ANYTHING like seth does. under no circumstances. just don't. ever.


no.

RWB
11-21-2007, 03:11 PM
:eek:

NEVER, EVER pay $8 to park in downtown Indy. Cripes, 3 blocks away is Washington/New Jersey which is free after 6/weekends. If Able can walk from that Days Inn to the game then anyone can make it. ;) :D

Or move downtown and walk like I do. :dance:


Makes sense if I'm the only one doing the walking. ;)

Naptown_Seth
11-21-2007, 03:21 PM
Makes sense if I'm the only one doing the walking. ;)
Half-jokingly I'd say park a few blocks away at our place and for $4 I'll drive you to the door and then pick you up after the game. ;)

You could always do a door drop-off and then park. With a father-in-law with MS I've had to do this. It's just the idea of any place downtown getting away with that cost on parking is aggravating to me. Heck, I think Morton's will valet you for less than that.



BTW, pretty awful timing on the opening of Legends don't you think?

Naptown_Seth
11-21-2007, 03:25 PM
it should be noted that moderators are on the record as saying they do not advise or condone doing ANYTHING like seth does. under no circumstances. just don't. ever.


no.
Wait, do you mean walking period, or just walking in the manner that I walk?
:dance2:

Gyron
11-21-2007, 03:25 PM
RWB, you could walk from Terre Haute right?

Roaming Gnome
11-21-2007, 03:43 PM
This will be the third season that I havn't paid to park and I'm a full season ticket holder. I've recently passed "the secret" onto Mal on his first season.

For all those that seek cheap parking or even free parking, remember there are 4 sides to the Fieldhouse, not just 3.

RWB
11-21-2007, 03:47 PM
RWB, you could walk from Terre Haute right?

Hell yes, if I can stand for hours bored out of my skull waiting on forehead I should be able make that distance easy.

RWB
11-21-2007, 03:54 PM
This will be the third season that I havn't paid to park and I'm a full season ticket holder. I've recently passed "the secret" onto Mal on his first season.

For all those that seek cheap parking or even free parking, remember there are 4 sides to the Fieldhouse, not just 3.

Seth has offered to drop me off to Conseco from his house. Now all I need is to catch a ride from Avon ;) and maybe a ride from BillS a little further up the road and I'll be saving on gas money too. :happydanc I'll give you a bud lite tee shirt if you'll agree.

Dr. Goldfoot
11-21-2007, 04:02 PM
It's only $2 bucks to park on the top of the Conseco parking garage. There are elevators, ramps, steps and a bridge crosswalk to the fieldhouse.

Doug
11-21-2007, 04:12 PM
i think she means for more casual fans. for more passionate ones it seems like an easy choice (live vs. tv) but obviously what conseco is missing at this point is the casual fans willing to see a game in person.

Yes, Live Vs. TV is a valid point.

I was pointing out that traffic, parking, and the cost of souvenirs are not significant barriers to going to a game. Joe Casual Fan might use them, but they are easy excuses that don't have real merit.



The bottom line seems to be that it is easier to lose a fanbase than it is to build one. Entropy increases.

Hicks
11-21-2007, 05:01 PM
It's only $2 bucks to park on the top of the Conseco parking garage. There are elevators, ramps, steps and a bridge crosswalk to the fieldhouse.

Yep. And there's a $3 lot just across the tracks from where the parking garage is (the garage that connects to Conseco). That lot is just SE of Conseco.

Doug
11-21-2007, 06:11 PM
Yep. And there's a $3 lot just across the tracks from where the parking garage is (the garage that connects to Conseco). That lot is just SE of Conseco.

That's where I park. You can exit from the side door of Conseco and be to your car in about a minute.

OnlyPacersLeft
11-21-2007, 06:30 PM
with the team doing bad i can't imagine when they get rid of Jermaine how many people will show up...sorry but granger isn't a draw for me or anyone else i don't think!

Naptown_Seth
11-21-2007, 06:46 PM
RWB, just bring the four bucks. :) For an extra 50 cents I'll use the wife's SUV, the front seat is heated for your enjoyment. Well, maybe call it an extra dollar when FEB rolls around.

Whenever the topic of attendance is brought up, usually as a way of attacking the thugs on the team (at least the last few years), my rebuttle is that you could sit close and cheap to see a team that had featured Reggie Miller for several seasons, along with Rik, Chuck and Detlef. But of course they weren't exciting enough to draw fans either. ;)