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Kstat
08-21-2007, 04:07 AM
TEAM USA's roster:


C: Amare Stoudamie
PF: Dwight Howard
SF: LeBron James
SG: Kobe Bryant
PG: Jason Kidd

Bench:
Tyson Chandler
Mike Miller
Chauncey Billups
Tayshaun Prince
Carmelo Anthony
Michael Redd
Deron Williams

Schedule:

8/22: Venezuala
8/23: Virgin Islands
8/25: Canada
8/26: Brazil
8/27: playoffs begin

Notable NBA participants:

Canada: Samual Dalembert (Sixers)

Argentina: Carlos Delfino (Raptors)
Luis Scola (Rockets)

Brazil: Leandro Barbosa (Suns)
Rafael Araujo (Jazz)
Anderson Varejao (Cavs)
Nene (Nugets)
Tiago Splitter (Spurs)

Uruguay: Esteban Batista (Hawks)

Puerto Rico: Carlos Arroyo (Magic)
Jose Juan Barea (Mavericks)


Other than Argentina, Brazil and Puerto Rico, there aren't any olympic-quality teams here other than us.

This is the best group of talent we've had since 1994. We better sweep this year, no exceptions.

naptownmenace
08-21-2007, 09:00 AM
I'm surprised that Stoudamire, Howard, and Chandler are the only big guys. If two of them get in foul trouble, Team USA is gonna struggle.

bulldog
08-21-2007, 09:01 AM
We better sweep this year, no exceptions.

Why is Olympic team the only team held to such ridiculous expectations? If we drop a group game but win the whole thing I'd still be pretty happy. I just find it silly that unless we win every game by about 20 people complain. It ain't '92 any more.

Mourning
08-21-2007, 10:35 AM
Aggreed bulldog. Seems like someone is not taking history lessons as seriously as they should. There's no question the US has the best talent, has the deepest team and has an enormous amount of flexibility.

However, the International game is a little different, players from other countries usually play more games together, creating better chemistry and/or feel for each other (during the games), usually have some NBA players themselves aswell as better average knowledge on players they will be facing (because the NBA is widely viewed) and expectations are much more realistic, not too mention that playing against the US and actually making it a very tight game or even winning is seen as a victory and in itself makes these teams extremely motivated against the US team a lot of times rising about their usual level.

And then there is the matter of the US team actually beying expected to beat each opponent and by double digits while at it. This creates tension and not the positive sort I would think.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

JayRedd
08-21-2007, 10:52 AM
Not sure this relates to 2007 FIBA at all, but it's about international bball and I found it rather interesting. Basically it's about Luol Deng and possibly others with Great Britian ties playing for them largely to get a British passport.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/other_sports/basketball/6950315.stm



NBA star gets GB ball rolling

<!--Savinline-->Report: Deng predicts GB success in 2012 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/sol/newsid_6950000/newsid_6951000?redirect=6951005.stm&news=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&nbwm=1&bbram=1)<!--Eavinline--><!--Smvb-->

Playing in front of 450 spectators in Sussex is a long way from megastardom in the US with Chicago Bulls, but for Luol Deng, it is just as important.

On Thursday night the Chicago Bulls star made his home debut for Great Britain against Ireland in Crawley, in a warm-up match ahead of key Euro-basket games against Georgia and Croatia.

But the 22-year-old hopes it will be the first step on the road to the 2012 Olympic Games, and the start of a revolution in British basketball.

When the London Games come around, the Sudan-born player will be 27, and on the basis of his current form, would walk into any Olympic team in the world.

Last season he was the National Basketball Association's Sportsman of the Year, and is poised to sign a new four-year contract, which would put him above Premier League stars such as Wayne Rooney and John Terry in terms of earnings.

But for 70 a day, Deng has chosen to play for Britain, a country which, in its one previous Olympic basketball tournament - also in London, in 1948 - lost all three games.

The burning question is - why?

Partly as a way of saying "thank you" to a country which granted his family political asylum after his father, a government minister in Sudan, was jailed in a coup.

And partly because this is where he learnt to play the game, with the Brixton Topcats.

After that he won a basketball scholarship to the United States and never looked back - but as a result he never got a British passport either.

This is where British Basketball comes in.

Their coach, an energetic American, Chris Finch, has very clear views on how Britain can build a world class team.

The only way to do it by 2012, he reckons, is to encourage NBA stars with British links to sign up.

And so with the help of a letter to the Home Office from Lord Coe, Deng's passport was granted last year.

Pops Mensah Bonsu of the Dallas Mavericks is also on board, and Kelenna Azubuike of the Golden State Warriors is waiting for his passport to go through.

Admittedly, the policy has raised a few eyebrows - after all, is not the point of the London Games to encourage a whole new generation of children to take up the sport, not import ready-made stars?

Sue Campbell, the chair of UK Sport, has made it clear she will not tolerate any sport chasing so-called "passports of convenience", but she is happy that basketball has so far stuck to the guidelines, only targeting players with legitimate British links.

And watching Luol Deng this week at a basketball camp for 290 children, I was left in no doubt that his presence has given the sport in this country a huge lift.

Basketball in Britain is crying out for role models to inspire young players, and keep them interested.

If Luol Deng can do that, then 70 a day may feel like the best wage he has ever earned.

Story from BBC SPORT:

Published: 2007/08/17 06:09:51 GMT

LoneGranger33
08-21-2007, 11:51 AM
I'm surprised that Stoudamire, Howard, and Chandler are the only big guys. If two of them get in foul trouble, Team USA is gonna struggle.

I think the feeling is that the international game is more perimeter-oriented. I'm just glad Chris Bust didn't make it. Phew!


Not sure this relates to 2007 FIBA at all, but it's about international bball and I found it rather interesting. Basically it's about Luol Deng and possibly others with Great Britian ties playing for them largely to get a British passport.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/other_sports/basketball/6950315.stm

I believe Ben Gordon is a British citizen as well - could be an interesting squad they put together there. Don't wanna forget Joel Freeland either.

avoidingtheclowns
08-21-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm surprised that Stoudamire, Howard, and Chandler are the only big guys. If two of them get in foul trouble, Team USA is gonna struggle.

lebron and carmello are probably considered 4s during international play.

bulldog
08-21-2007, 12:57 PM
lebron and carmello are probably considered 4s during international play.

Which is why Argentina kept getting to the rim without a problem.

bulldog
08-21-2007, 07:44 PM
ESPN's preview: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=TOA-GroupB&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab1pos1
Standard listing of which NBA players play for which teams, nothing special.

Except that Nolan Richardson is coaching Mexico. Weird.

LoneGranger33
08-21-2007, 09:52 PM
What are the chances we don't earn an Olympic berth this year?

Kstat
08-21-2007, 10:05 PM
What are the chances we don't earn an Olympic berth this year?

Considering the top two teams from the Americas make it in, and the next few advance to a wild card bracket?

Highly unlikely.

bulldog
08-21-2007, 11:50 PM
We'll almost certainly make it, I just don't think we'll necessarily win every game by 20.

Us and Brazil maybe? Argentina's already in, they have no incentive.

Eindar
08-22-2007, 12:50 AM
Are these games going to be televised, and if so, on what channel?

Kstat
08-22-2007, 02:42 AM
ESPN 2

the first two games are at 11PM, the 3rd will be at 3pm, the 4th will be 9pm.

Eindar
08-22-2007, 03:54 AM
ESPN 2

the first two games are at 11PM, the 3rd will be at 3pm, the 4th will be 9pm.

Great! Thanks, Kstat. I might be able to watch these depending on my work schedule.

Hicks
08-22-2007, 07:04 AM
It's listed on ESPNCL tonight for me, but ESPN2 tomorrow.

Trader Joe
08-23-2007, 12:15 AM
Anybody else watching the game?

ilive4sports
08-23-2007, 12:17 AM
Im watching it, really not much of a game though.

Trader Joe
08-23-2007, 12:19 AM
Yeah, USA is rooooooooooooollin'. This team is a ton better than the team in Greece. Much better ball movement.

ilive4sports
08-23-2007, 12:26 AM
Seems like everything is better. Defense, hustle, ball movement, overall communication. You can tell they have some chemistry. With that being said, how good is Venezuela though?

Kstat
08-23-2007, 12:36 AM
the team looks better because the talent is way better.

The USA has brought their top PG, SG, SF and their best rebounder, as well as a host of their best role players.

This is a grade-A team USA for the first time since 2000. If they bring this squad to Shanghai, they should win gold. This team is a cut above anybody the world can put together. You couldn't say that about the last few teams.

LoneGranger33
08-23-2007, 12:50 AM
Anytime the United States national team plays, it should appear on regular cable TV so the whole nation can observe. This ESPN Classic stuff is just ridiculous. It's a real shame.

LoneGranger33
08-23-2007, 09:31 AM
Can anyone find out when the Croatian national team plays its first internationally-televised game? I'd like for everyone to get a look at Stanko and share in my praise for BaracStar.

JayRedd
08-23-2007, 10:52 AM
Anyone got a schedule for the coming games/dates/times/channels?

bulldog
08-23-2007, 10:53 AM
ESPN summary of the Venzuela game:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=2987531

Does Stanko play for Croatia or Bosnia?

MagicRat
08-23-2007, 10:59 AM
Anyone got a schedule for the coming games/dates/times/channels?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espntv/espnTopics?topic=Basketball&watch=FIBAAmericasChampionship

JayRedd
08-23-2007, 11:02 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espntv/espnTopics?topic=Basketball&watch=FIBAAmericasChampionship

:tip:

Gyron
08-23-2007, 02:22 PM
ESPN summary of the Venzuela game:
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=2987531

Does Stanko play for Croatia or Bosnia?

He probably plays for both....At the same time! Because thats just how good Stanko is!:D

Naptown_Seth
08-23-2007, 02:25 PM
the team looks better because the talent is way better.

The USA has brought their top PG, SG, SF and their best rebounder, as well as a host of their best role players.

This is a grade-A team USA for the first time since 2000. If they bring this squad to Shanghai, they should win gold. This team is a cut above anybody the world can put together. You couldn't say that about the last few teams.
Honestly I wasn't that impressed with most of the game. Clearly Kidd and Kobe made a drastic difference, but still the offense often looked flustered or rushed when it wasn't a breakaway score.

To me it looked like exactly the same crutch they used in Greece - take advantage of weaker players to get TOs and easy scores and god help you if you hit a team with a system that actually protects the ball (ie, that Greek PnR).

Still a bit too much AS game flow at both ends, partially due to the comfort level created by weaker competition. I was hoping to see this group a bit more efficient overall.

Of course Miller's shot didn't help that aspect, and the team as a whole wasn't ripping it up from the outside. The offensive sets rarely looked smooth and dangerous. No way they should have let Venz disrupt the HC game as much as they did.


Then again they can phone it in and still qualify it seems. You can ride the raw talent of Kidd, Kobe, James and Melo all the way probably. Speaking of Melo, he should just sign with a Euro team, this FIBA stuff brings out the best of his game.

Since86
08-23-2007, 02:32 PM
Speaking of Melo, he should just sign with a Euro team, this FIBA stuff brings out the best of his game.

Hey now, I would say he does a pretty damn good job in the NBA.:maniac:

Second line.

bulldog
08-23-2007, 04:46 PM
Honestly I wasn't that impressed with most of the game. Clearly Kidd and Kobe made a drastic difference, but still the offense often looked flustered or rushed when it wasn't a breakaway score.


To be fair, you can't really play your best against such an overmatched opponent, you play down to their level. Truehoop mentions we have no post up game, but we didn't really need one in this game, you can take teams like this out with defensive pressure alone. And, as much as you hate Kobe personally, you have to admit he's a monster, for a superstar to show that much dedication, get mentally prepared and play stifling defense against trivial competition is pretty unique. As far as the team goes, I don't think you can say too much good or bad about us so far. We'll have to wait until we play the US Virgin Islands (Tim Duncan plays for them, right? ;))

Kstat
08-23-2007, 09:59 PM
Name the last world champion that had a post game.

IT DOESN'T EXIST IN INTERNATIONAL PLAY.

Amare Stoudemire is a better post player than anybody the rest of the world has.

Kegboy
08-23-2007, 11:06 PM
Name the last world champion that had a post game.

:cough:

http://waku.cocolog-nifty.com/waku/image/basket15.jpg

:tongue:

avoidingtheclowns
08-23-2007, 11:18 PM
Name the last world champion that had a post game.

IT DOESN'T EXIST IN INTERNATIONAL PLAY.

Amare Stoudemire is a better post player than anybody the rest of the world has.

http://www.draftexpress.com/headshots/stankobarac.jpg

ahem...

Kstat
08-23-2007, 11:23 PM
Michael Redd is going to be the MVP of this tournament. Those 20-footers are like layups to him.

Kstat
08-23-2007, 11:26 PM
42-13 after one quarter. This is going to be very nasty...

Kstat
08-23-2007, 11:46 PM
There's something to be said about the fact Jason Kidd will be 30-0 in international play after tonight.

Oneal07
08-23-2007, 11:47 PM
Virgin Islands getting housed LMAO!!! I can't wait for USA and Canada, should be a nice game to watch

bulldog
08-23-2007, 11:59 PM
Name the last world champion that had a post game.

IT DOESN'T EXIST IN INTERNATIONAL PLAY.

Amare Stoudemire is a better post player than anybody the rest of the world has.

Pau Gasol. Spain. I believe they are quite literally the last world champion.

And don't even try to nitpick that, Gasol is a post player and he was the MVP. I don't care if he doesn't play traditional post, and faces the basket a lot, he's still a post player. And I never said the US doesn't have a post game, just that they didn't show it, and didn't need it against Venezuela (actually, to be fair, Truehoop said that, and I agreed that its something to keep an eye on).

And I haven't seen Amare rely on his post up game much. Mostly because he has Nash to feed him the ball all the time. Again, I'm not saying he doesn't have one, just that when you have the league MVP feeding you the ball the offense runs in different ways. And while Amare is certainly better than Gasol, he hasn't shown it in international competition, so we'll see.

ilive4sports
08-24-2007, 12:01 AM
Pau Gasol. Spain.

No. That is all.

Kstat
08-24-2007, 12:03 AM
Pau Gasol. Spain. I believe they are quite literally the last world champion.

...and I believe he didn't even play in the medal rounds. Spain doesn't win because of him, he was just a part of their team. Rodrieguez and Fernandez ran teams off the floor.

Amare Stoudemire is at least as good a post player is Gasol, if not better.

Kstat
08-24-2007, 12:51 AM
hmm, 61-point lead. I'd say this one is in the bag.

Kstat
08-24-2007, 12:55 AM
Final score:123-59. Our 2nd-biggest beat-down ever.

Well, I have to say I like our explosivenes :laugh:

LoneGranger33
08-24-2007, 09:17 AM
http://www.draftexpress.com/headshots/stankobarac.jpg

ahem...

Soon...very soon...


There's something to be said about the fact Jason Kidd will be 30-0 in international play after tonight.

And that something is: He is American, yay!

JayRedd
08-24-2007, 10:37 AM
There's something to be said about the fact Jason Kidd will be 30-0 in international play after tonight.

Jason Kidd ><SCRIPT language=javascript type=text/javascript>
CNTR_style = 'default';
</SCRIPT> 6,613,801,704 other people
<SCRIPT language=javascript src="<A href=" type=text/javascript www.counttheworld.com http: population-world.php? client></script">http://www.counttheworld.com/client/population-world.php"></SCRIPT>

Gyron
08-24-2007, 10:46 AM
:cough:

http://waku.cocolog-nifty.com/waku/image/basket15.jpg

:tongue:

I don't knwo who that is or for what sport, but the WNBA teams need uniforms like that....That would draw in many more male viewers.

Kegboy
08-24-2007, 10:59 AM
I don't knwo who that is or for what sport, but the WNBA teams need uniforms like that....That would draw in many more male viewers.

Lauren Jackson, she plays with Sue Bird for the Seattle Storm. Led the Aussies to the 2006 WBC title and she's most definitely a post player. Though she's good from the arc, too.

And yes, everyone loves their uni's.

Hicks
08-24-2007, 11:48 AM
I love those unis as well.

Trader Joe
08-24-2007, 12:53 PM
Kidd's difference for this team is remarkable. Really it is. He has just taken everyone's play to a new level both on offense and defense. I hate to say it, but if Kidd was the PG for the Suns the past two seasons I think they would have won a championship just cause his defense is light years ahead of Nash.

grace
08-24-2007, 01:09 PM
I don't knwo who that is or for what sport, but the WNBA teams need uniforms like that....That would draw in many more male viewers.

I know you think you want those uniforms, but do you really want to see someone like Tamika Whitmore in one of them? Besides you men can't have it until the NBA at least goes back to shorter shorts.

Gyron
08-24-2007, 01:38 PM
This is true Grace, but i could stand Tamika if the rest of the team was in them. They would distract me from Tamika.

And as for the short shorts......You girls would get grossed out by what would hang out of some of them.....

grace
08-24-2007, 01:52 PM
And as for the short shorts......You girls would get grossed out by what would hang out of some of them.....

Oh, I doubt it, but since the league refuses to market to the females I guess we'll never find out. :(

Naptown_Seth
08-25-2007, 02:42 AM
I love those unis as well.
Lauren Jackson :love:
And that was without that photo. If I go WNBA groupie, that's where I start. I can buy lifts and a stepladder if need be.

Hard to believe one team could have her AND Sue Bird. Time for the Pacers to try out a few female players again. This would certainly sell seats...

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20030528/450suebird_green.jpg

http://www.sports-wired.com/women/images/Lauren_Jackson/993.jpg

Kstat
08-25-2007, 09:05 PM
Anther game, another 50-point beating, this time the victim is Canada.

Looking forward to the Brazil game tomorrow. We're mercilessly smoking teams right now, and I want to see how it carries over against a legit medal contender.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 03:13 AM
Puerto Rico finishes their qualifier 1-3 with a loss to Uruguay, and likely won't be invited to the wild card qualifier next year.

It looks like Arroyo and co. won't be making the trip to Shanghai....

LoneGranger33
08-26-2007, 10:30 AM
Brazil only beat the Virgin Islands by 4...?

bulldog
08-26-2007, 01:10 PM
Yea, looks like even Brazil isn't gonna put up too much of a challenge...and that was supposed to be one of the few competitive games in the tourney for the US,

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:03 PM
Brazil is up tonight. Should be a fun one.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:09 PM
we're running them off the gym to start the game. 10-1 in only 2 minutes.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:10 PM
Watching Kobe dive 8 feet for a loose ball shows much just how much we want this.

Kobe's getting applause for hustle plays. Imagine that.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:11 PM
we're really getting into this. This **** is fun to watch.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:16 PM
16-10 USA after a brief brazil spurt.

Having Prince and Amare to come off your bench is a heck of a bonus.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:18 PM
they're sagging off Kidd. They won't be able to do that to Billups...

shags
08-26-2007, 09:24 PM
Oh S***!!!!

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:25 PM
Yeah, that sucks.

I hope he'll be ok for the season.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:27 PM
The rule that says you can swipe the ball off the basket is idiotic. there's no reason for it whatsoever.

It's junk basketball. Just wait for the ball to touch the rim and swipe at it. No other defense being played at all.

27-21 USA, should be 37-21, but that's FIBA rules for you.

MagicRat
08-26-2007, 09:31 PM
Yeah, that sucks.

I hope he'll be ok for the season.

Just turned it on. Who?

[edit] Nevermind. Just heard Prince.....

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:40 PM
40-32 USA with 5 minutes till halftime.

We haven't exploded on them like the previous teams, but Brazil hasn't really fought their way into the game either.

Hicks
08-26-2007, 09:45 PM
I'm impressed with Tiago Splitter. Had only read the name before now. The Spurs get him next season? Nice pickup. Only their 20598295th time. Wish we could get these guys instead of Sarunas.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:46 PM
The floodgates are open...

USA leads 50-34 in a flash. Defensively, we're stomping them. Nothing but violations, turnovers and airballs from Brazil now.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 09:56 PM
LeBron banks home a long 3 to end the half, and it looks like we've beaten the fight out of Brazil.

57-38 USA.

LoneGranger33
08-26-2007, 10:03 PM
Don't count them out just yet.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:09 PM
The look on their faces after that LeBron 3 was pretty damn dejected.

They played hard as hell to stick with us, and we turned it on and blew by them in a few minutes.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:11 PM
Brazil didn't hit a single shot the last 6 minutes. Ouch.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:15 PM
Kobe is heating up...

WOW! What a lob from Kidd to Carmelo!

James steals the inbounds pass, and-1.

67-41 USA. We're stampeding them now.

The crowd is really into this, too. The level of competition has amped them up big time.

BlueNGold
08-26-2007, 10:16 PM
This squad of Americans has to be the best since the 90's. I think the NBA's pride took a hit and they finally got serious from a coaching standpoint all the way down to a carefully selected roster. I truly believe this squad is worthy of being called a dream team. No, the US will never be quite as dominant, but that's only because international competition is so much better.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:19 PM
74-41. The *** beating continues.

Mind you this was single digits within 7 minutes of halftime.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:22 PM
THis is a notch of intensity you rarely see on a basketball floor in a lifetime. We're up 30+ and you'd think we're down 20 by our energy level.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:26 PM
USA is 14-25 from the arc.

aero
08-26-2007, 10:28 PM
is there a game on right now ?

Hicks
08-26-2007, 10:29 PM
84-47 right now... just killing one of the best teams in the tourney.

Hicks
08-26-2007, 10:29 PM
is there a game on right now ?

ESPN2 2:00 to go in 3rd period.

aero
08-26-2007, 10:30 PM
what channel is the game airing on ?

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:30 PM
ESPN2.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:30 PM
Chauncey and Kidd is a totally lethal PG combination. If you design a defense to guard one...the other guy will torch you.

aero
08-26-2007, 10:32 PM
ahhh Mal must have replied right when i was asking what channel it was on ;)

thanks. ive been watching Pittsburgh Vs Philly on NBC-HD. Basketball > football to me so ill be watching the basketball game :D

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:33 PM
This is crazy.

The US is on a 39-6 run.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:36 PM
USA leads 96-49 after 3 quarters. This is nuts.

It was a 7-point lead midway through the 2nd quarter. It's a 47-point lead after 3 quarters.

Anthem
08-26-2007, 10:48 PM
It's been fun watching basketball, but I didn't see this until the second half, so I never saw the game when it was competitive.

Kstat, do you see homecourt as playing an advantage for USA?

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:50 PM
It's been fun watching basketball, but I didn't see this until the second half, so I never saw the game when it was competitive.

Kstat, do you see homecourt as playing an advantage for USA?

homecourt always plays a part, but the big factor was that there WAS a crowd tonight, for the first time in the tournament. Brazil drew a packed house, and our guys are used to playing in front of that type of audience.

Anthem
08-26-2007, 10:57 PM
Anybody else like the Reggie Miller story there?

And Bill didn't come out and say it, but he strongly implied that in his opinion, Boston did better to get Bowen than Reggie.

Which I absolutely agree with.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 10:57 PM
LOL @ Kobe chewing out the bench for allowing Brazil to break 70!

Kstat
08-26-2007, 11:00 PM
USA wins, 113-76, and it wasn't nealy that close. We ripped their hearts out mortal-kombat style.

Anthem
08-26-2007, 11:01 PM
Only a 37-point win.

Bummer.

Hicks
08-26-2007, 11:01 PM
Anybody else like the Reggie Miller story there?

And Bill didn't come out and say it, but he strongly implied that in his opinion, Boston did better to get Bowen than Reggie.

Which I absolutely agree with.

Bowen? You mean Posey?

Kstat
08-26-2007, 11:02 PM
Did Mal assimilate UB?

Kstat
08-26-2007, 11:04 PM
Only a 37-point win.

Bummer.

The message was pretty much sent, though. Brazil waived the white flag and we let them have some garbage points.

The telling sign was that Kobe was actually ANGRY the bench wasn't playing hard with a 47-point lead. There's an obsession with this team to crush everybody.

Unclebuck
08-26-2007, 11:06 PM
I haven't been watching any of these games, I always forget. When is the next one on

Hicks
08-26-2007, 11:11 PM
Did Mal assimilate UB?

http://pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=33248

Hicks
08-26-2007, 11:13 PM
The message was pretty much sent, though. Brazil waived the white flag and we let them have some garbage points.

The telling sign was that Kobe was actually ANGRY the bench wasn't playing hard with a 47-point lead. There's an obsession with this team to crush everybody.

I think Kobe's easily the biggest reason for that change in mindset. Sure the other guys want it, but Kobe demands it, and that rubs off when you have his stature amongst the others.

Oh, and adding Kidd and Billups might play a little role in why we went from "probably should win" to "absolutely should destroy". That's a hell of an upgrade adding those 2 + Kobe. I think that's the difference right there. Not to mention Redd and Prince.

Much, much better team this year. Feels like I'm watching the original Dream Team, only with less legendary players.

rexnom
08-26-2007, 11:14 PM
Kobe, Billups, and Kidd are making a HUGE difference from what I can tell (granted I haven't seen all the games)...always good to get more vets...

Anthem
08-26-2007, 11:47 PM
Bowen? You mean Posey?
Yup.

Kstat
08-26-2007, 11:50 PM
Boston had Bowen already. They cut him.

bulldog
08-27-2007, 07:36 AM
While its silly the US is even really in this tournament (or rather, is competing for a spot), in the end its probably gonna be for the best, they can put things together against weaker competition so that they're experienced when they go against the Euros. Hopefully the same team shows up for subsequent tourneys, and plays at the same level of intensity. This team is really good.

Kstat
08-27-2007, 11:32 AM
USA will play Nolan Richardson's Mexico team in game 1 of the the quarterfinal round tonight at 8. No idea if it will be televised or not.

USA's new schedule will include Mexico, Puerto Rico, Uruguay and Argentina over the next 4 days. Looking forward to that last one.

Since86
08-27-2007, 02:16 PM
It will be on ESPN2 at 9pm tonight.

Kstat
08-27-2007, 07:02 PM
make that 11PM.

ROCislandWarrior
08-27-2007, 08:06 PM
I read 10 pm Central Time.

Anthem
08-27-2007, 11:10 PM
Man, that FIBA goaltending rule is garbage.

Anthem
08-27-2007, 11:24 PM
Man, Melo should really consider playing in Europe. He's perfect in the FIBA game.

Anthem
08-27-2007, 11:26 PM
Am I the only one here?

Anthem
08-27-2007, 11:29 PM
45 points in the first quarter. This is insane.

I wish teams were just allowed to concede.

Anthem
08-27-2007, 11:33 PM
Stupid call by the ref.

Anthem
08-27-2007, 11:37 PM
You gotta feel bad for Mexico here. Their offense looks good, they're running good sets, but they just can't get past the NBA defense. And the NBA guys aren't even working on offense... we're probably scoring two-thirds of our points on fastbreaks.

avoidingtheclowns
08-27-2007, 11:53 PM
Man, Melo should really consider playing in Europe. He's perfect in the FIBA game.

you're absolutely right, cos he certainly can't cut it in the NBA.

Anthem
08-28-2007, 12:05 AM
you're absolutely right, cos he certainly can't cut it in the NBA.
:D

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:07 AM
I'd imagine coach K must be furious. allowing 51 points in a half is unforgivable.

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:13 AM
Ok, that dunk by Kobe was just...WOW.

Anthem
08-28-2007, 12:14 AM
Yeah, Mexico has really battled back. We started playing All-Star defense there for a while.

You've got to give it to them, they're really well-coached. Much better team than I expected (guess I don't see enough FIBA).

Anthem
08-28-2007, 12:14 AM
Ok, that dunk by Kobe was just...WOW.
Melo had a worse one in the first quarter, but yeah. That was mean.

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:22 AM
damn....Kobe just got schooled by Castro for a 4-point play. Nice move.

Anthem
08-28-2007, 12:30 AM
I'm impressed by Mexico. They're playing well.

Aggressively doubling and rotating on D, lotsa bumping guys as they move, and crisp passing and good shooting on O.

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:33 AM
101-78 USA after 3 quarters.

Still pissed at the lack of defense. We've allowed more points in 3 quarters than we allowed in any game this month.

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:38 AM
geez Carmelo, show us how you really feel...

King Tuts Tomb
08-28-2007, 12:43 AM
Wow, Bill Walton on his game tonight. Just...wow.

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:51 AM
We didn't really bring it tonight. I'm kinda disappointed.


Hopefully tomorrow vs. Puerto Rico will bring out more energy from us.

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:55 AM
USA wins, 127-100.

We scored a ton, but we gave up way, WAY too many points.

Something better be done about that.

Kstat
08-28-2007, 12:57 AM
BTW, it looks like we really did rip out brazil's confidence and stomp on it. Puerto Rico handled them by 22 tonight.

Anthem
08-28-2007, 01:25 AM
BTW, it looks like we really did rip out brazil's ****s and stomp on them. Puerto Rico handled them by 22 tonight.
Fixed.

Naptown_Seth
08-28-2007, 02:42 PM
The defense was obviously a big issue in the Olympics too. Hate seeing that trend continue. I know they work for TO's and fastbreaks, as well as playing uptempo overall, but as I said a few games ago, they get lured into trouble with the confidence of individual talent making plays at any time.


I also agree, Kobe and Kidd especially make a huge difference. Billups too of course.

Since86
08-28-2007, 02:55 PM
I don't forsee them having any trouble with PR tonight. I imagine this will be the most focused game they play for this entire tournament. They put up a stinker on the defensive end last night, so it was a wake up call, and they got punched in the mouth last time they played PR, so they'll want to get revenge.

Also, I didn't like the new lineup. The past games there was a little bit of an offensive stall when the 2nd crew came in, but that has to be expected. Your going from a high flying high octane offense that will dunk over anyone and everyone, to a squad consisting of shooters who need to work the ball around more to get open set shots. Two contrasting styles, and I thought they gave a very nice 1-2 punch.

Please don't mix and match again!

LoneGranger33
08-28-2007, 06:15 PM
I don't forsee them having any trouble with PR tonight. I imagine this will be the most focused game they play for this entire tournament. They put up a stinker on the defensive end last night, so it was a wake up call, and they got punched in the mouth last time they played PR, so they'll want to get revenge.

I agree, however, I am weary of Carlos Arroyo looking like Miguel Jordan again. And USA also made Daniel Santiago look pretty good - good enough for the Pacers to offer him a solid contract.

Coop
08-28-2007, 11:13 PM
We're up 15-7 with 5 minutes to go in the first against PR. Not looking too good though. Kobe needs to pass the ball

Anthem
08-28-2007, 11:14 PM
Why does Carlos Arroyo look so bad on the NBA court but so good against NBA players in FIBA?

Coop
08-28-2007, 11:15 PM
Probably the same reason Sarunas looked good in the olympics but terrible now..

Coop
08-28-2007, 11:23 PM
24-15 after one. Kobe has 11

Coop
08-28-2007, 11:27 PM
Wow, Amare just drained a 3. 29-15

MagicRat
08-28-2007, 11:47 PM
That 2nd quarter was beautiful.......

Kstat
08-29-2007, 12:05 AM
the good news is, our defense is back.

Naptown_Seth
08-29-2007, 02:23 AM
Why does Carlos Arroyo look so bad on the NBA court but so good against NBA players in FIBA?
It's the Melo factor. I know people have said "hey, Melo does just fine in the NBA" but come on. In the NBA he's a pretty good all-star. In FIBA he's freaking Jordan. Not sure what it is, some if it's the closer arc, but he shines.

Arroyo does too, he slashes and dumps like Nash half the time. Maybe his issue is just motivation. If it makes that big a difference then he needs a whack to the head for wasting his talent.

But there is no denying that this style of ball suits some players a lot more than others.


PR showed no inside defense or real rebounding. Their perimeter play was lively though. Couldn't keep up with the US shooting or penetration and dump for dunk in the end.

MagicRat
08-29-2007, 09:16 AM
Why does Carlos Arroyo look so bad on the NBA court but so good against NBA players in FIBA?

NBA coaches coach too much.......

MagicRat
08-29-2007, 09:19 AM
the good news is, our defense is back.

The defense was good, but also I think the shock and awe from the other end caused PR to jack up some bad shots.......

Since86
08-29-2007, 02:37 PM
It's the Melo factor. I know people have said "hey, Melo does just fine in the NBA" but come on. In the NBA he's a pretty good all-star. In FIBA he's freaking Jordan. Not sure what it is, some if it's the closer arc, but he shines.

Arroyo does too, he slashes and dumps like Nash half the time. Maybe his issue is just motivation. If it makes that big a difference then he needs a whack to the head for wasting his talent.

But there is no denying that this style of ball suits some players a lot more than others.


PR showed no inside defense or real rebounding. Their perimeter play was lively though. Couldn't keep up with the US shooting or penetration and dump for dunk in the end.

I don't know if it's more of the style, or more of the competition. When LeBron wants too, he can play at the same level as Melo, I mean he was shooting 74% from the field going into last nights game.

The hanging rebuttal is why isn't Kobe doing the same things. I personally don't think Kobe is as good as advertised, but that may just be me. I think he forces over half his shots, and when you force rarely do you hit. I loved watching him the first couple of games. He played a backseat role, took wide open shots, got out and ran, then played fierce D.

Now he seems to hold onto the ball and try to take on 3 players with a dribble, or shoot a contested 3 with someone literally in his face.

Melo's shot selection is ten times better, and when he goes to the rim he's looking to dunk on everyone, instead of moving the ball around and trying to do some spectacular reverse layup. Melo is controlled and precise, Kobe forces and makes things harder than what they should be.

Just my :twocents:

EDIT: And I'm starting to feel dirty. I used to cringe every time Walton opened up his mouth, but now I actually like listening to him. He's a 10 on Bill Simmons unintentional comedy scale, and every now and again he'll actually break down the play and say something highly intelligent.

LoneGranger33
08-29-2007, 11:41 PM
Our mystery PF? Esteban Batista!

The fact that we have gotten worse every game (at least as far as three pointers are concerned), is anyone afraid of Argentina?

EDIT: Forgot about Melo's absence. But still...

Kstat
08-29-2007, 11:43 PM
Batista=the Carlos Arroyo of power forwards.

Kstat
08-29-2007, 11:43 PM
BTW, LeBron is 10/10 from the floor.

Kstat
08-29-2007, 11:46 PM
ouch. Make that 11/11

LoneGranger33
08-29-2007, 11:46 PM
Holy ****! That should be illegal, LeBron.

Kstat
08-29-2007, 11:48 PM
LeBron has 26 points on %100 shooting at halftime. damn.

ThA HoyA
08-29-2007, 11:50 PM
lebron is playing hella crazy but what im most impressed with is Amare's shot is has come a hella long way its actually good

LoneGranger33
08-29-2007, 11:57 PM
lebron is playing hella crazy but what im most impressed with is Amare's shot is has come a hella long way its actually good

would you say hella good? :-p

LoneGranger33
08-30-2007, 12:00 AM
Also, I didn't realize JJ Redick was the best shooter in the history of basketball...

ThA HoyA
08-30-2007, 12:13 AM
^^^ thats hilarious when i saw that i was laughing my butt off..... i would use have used the F or other 4 letter word but im trying to town it down a bit cause i say them way too much so says my gf haha

avoidingtheclowns
08-30-2007, 12:37 AM
Also, I didn't realize JJ Redick was the best shooter in the history of basketball...

bill is still bitter that his son has never lived up to the shooter in your sig LG.

tdubb03
08-30-2007, 02:04 AM
I've probably seen LeBron play 40+ times now, and every single time the dude wows me. Forget the basketball skills, just the sheer athleticism.

Slick Pinkham
08-30-2007, 11:22 AM
USA vs. Argentina, at MIDNIGHT?

us old timers need our sleep.

Gyron
08-30-2007, 11:34 AM
Thats 10 pm argentina time too....Although When I was down there, they will stay up all night for these types of things anf just go to work the next morning. But then again, they get siesta's in the afternoon, so that may be why they can do that....

Kstat
08-30-2007, 06:10 PM
USA is 3-2 against Argentina over the last 5 years...should meet two more times over the next week too.

Hicks
08-30-2007, 10:22 PM
I just recently realized Manu isn't playing. -100 Interest Level.

Kstat
08-30-2007, 10:27 PM
I just recently realized Manu isn't playing. -100 Interest Level.

You should realize Argentina is 7-0 and the 2nd best team in this tournament by a country mile, as well as the 2nd best basketball playing nation on earth.

We played them without our absolute best and lost, I don't want to hear that they don't have Manu.

Anytime Argentina plays the US, it's always a big deal.

bulldog
08-30-2007, 10:48 PM
Well, yes and no.

You can't use the best players argument, cause we haven't sent our best (although I think the last few years its been close) and that hasn't prevented the losses from being considered significant.

But you can say that since they've already qualified, and we haven't, there's a different level of intensity riding on these games. Not to mention the tournament is a notch below the ones we've previously played them in.
It's just like the NBA, this is the regular season, we need these wins to get to the real playoffs, but they're not that meaningful.

Kstat
08-30-2007, 11:50 PM
But you can say that since they've already qualified, and we haven't, there's a different level of intensity riding on these games.

Um, they haven't qualified yet. Being defending Olympic champ does not mean you have a spot guaranteed to you 4 years later.

We were the defending olympic champs in 2004, and last time I checked we still had to qualify the summer before.

Naptown_Seth
08-31-2007, 12:07 AM
Boy that was a nice spin by Scola

Naptown_Seth
08-31-2007, 12:08 AM
Holy flaming shots, OCHO ON FIRE

(i realize he's not 8 here or in the NBA now)



Man, they are getting very physical with Howard, open handed shoves and very obvious grab and pulls, hand fighting even...and of course some flopping. In the NBA they'd foul out with that crap.


Scola still going off, he's sharp.

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:09 AM
Kobe 8, Argentina 4.

Argentina calls a VERY early timeout.

granger
08-31-2007, 12:12 AM
We played them without our absolute best and lost, I don't want to hear that they don't have Manu.


and other 7 player

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:14 AM
Kobe's having some fun with this game. he wants big numbers.

Naptown_Seth
08-31-2007, 12:17 AM
80% FG for Lebron in the tourney. Eighty. Whole team is 66% I think Bill said. Yikes.

They finally got busted for their physical crap. What is this, the 90's Utah Jazz or something? If the ref ain't looking it ain't a foul. ugh

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:19 AM
We came to play tonight.

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:22 AM
28-10 USA. This could get very, very ugly.

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:22 AM
The Mexico game was more entertaining.

The Argentina guys give up the play way too easily on what they believe are missed calls.

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:25 AM
The Mexico game was more entertaining.

The Argentina guys give up the play way too easily on what they believe are missed calls.

We're playing a lot harder than we did against mexico.

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:26 AM
I've never seen so many commercials for an event 3 years away...

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:27 AM
this just in: Kobe still cannot be stopped.

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:27 AM
Is Carlos Delfino playing?

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:29 AM
yeah. But he's playing against Kobe.

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:29 AM
I learn all my history from Sissy Spacek movies...

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:30 AM
They touch the ball from out of bounds all the time - it must not be illegal in international play, because they never call it on either squad.

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:31 AM
Revenge! (That's why you don't push Melo)

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:31 AM
Melo>>>>>>>Scola


WOW!

Naptown_Seth
08-31-2007, 12:33 AM
We're playing a lot harder than we did against mexico.
Yeah, but LG33 is right about ARG giving up on some plays. Same with turnovers.

Let's face it, both teams are in the semis and a win there is the qualifier. This game is effectively meaningless other than pride, and only one team cares about that at this point.


Also doesn't help that Scola got 3 fouls in the first quarter.

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:33 AM
A BASKETBALL PLAYER WITH A MUSTACHE! YAY!

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:36 AM
Let's face it, both teams are in the semis and a win there is the qualifier. This game is effectively meaningless other than pride, and only one team cares about that at this point.


Darn. Sucks to be them.

THey can get spanked twice by us for all I care.

Let another country be known as the quitters with no pride for once.

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:37 AM
Mike Miller with the block? If Chandler makes a 3 pointer, I'm done for this tourney.

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:42 AM
****, that's how I shoot 'em too...

Naptown_Seth
08-31-2007, 12:43 AM
Killer pass by Billups

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:48 AM
Seriously... it's not till 2010, people. Who makes travel plans 3 years in advance???

LoneGranger33
08-31-2007, 12:49 AM
Seriously... it's not till 2010, people. Who makes travel plans 3 years in advance???

It's Turkey man! I'd go there tomorrow if I knew I could stay till 2010. Plus, the quality of that commercial just blows me away - how could I say no?

MagicRat
08-31-2007, 12:50 AM
Dwight K. Shrute needs to arrest "Coach J" for identity theft.....

Kstat
08-31-2007, 12:50 AM
that rule that allows you to goaltend a ball on a rim is so childish. That's the kind of thing I'd expect from 7-year olds playing on 5-foot rims.

"Look at me, mommy! I can hang on the rim with one hand and put the ball in the basket with the other! Aren't I good?"

Naptown_Seth
08-31-2007, 01:04 AM
Dwight K. Shrute needs to arrest "Coach J" for identity theft.....
I agree. Pretty obvious I think.



For some reason I'm feeling really hyped for Thanksgiving right now. Not sure why that is....

Naptown_Seth
08-31-2007, 01:51 AM
Once again the US loses interest down the stretch and lets the other team hang around more than they probably should. I just hate that thought process creeping in now and eventually biting them. Then again they might dial it in and focus more when there is something to play for.

bulldog
08-31-2007, 07:33 AM
Um, they haven't qualified yet. Being defending Olympic champ does not mean you have a spot guaranteed to you 4 years later.

We were the defending olympic champs in 2004, and last time I checked we still had to qualify the summer before.

I thought this was for the World Championships...

Which is the tournament most consider important, not the Olympics. And argentina was already in. Or was it Spain?

Kstat
08-31-2007, 01:02 PM
I thought this was for the World Championships...

Which is the tournament most consider important, not the Olympics. And argentina was already in. Or was it Spain?

Whatever the game the US wins, it'll be the one you consider least important. Yeah, I get it.

I believe the world championship are invite-only, unless you're the host country or regional champ.

ThA HoyA
08-31-2007, 03:34 PM
Spain won the world championships and they are already in

caaprius
09-01-2007, 04:48 AM
Olympics consist of only 12 teams, whereas World championship has 24 teams. so it's harder to get into Olympics basketball tournament - for example only 3 teams from Europe + Spain will get invitations to Beijing.

shags
09-01-2007, 10:00 AM
Whatever the game the US wins, it'll be the one you consider least important. Yeah, I get it.

I believe the world championship are invite-only, unless you're the host country or regional champ.

The fact remains that the vast majority of the rest of the world considers the world championships to be a more prestigious tournament than the Olympics.

These are, for the most part, soccer nations. So, in effect, it would be saying that the Olympic soccer tournament is more prestigious than the World Cup.

bulldog
09-01-2007, 11:34 AM
Whatever the game the US wins, it'll be the one you consider least important. Yeah, I get it.


Are those little digs really necessary, or helpful? Accusing people of being un-American is a silly, antiquated tactic for someone who doesn't have anything else to say.

I've been ignoring them for a while, but you persist. I understand, we're all upset that neither the US team nor the Pistons have won anything lately. I also understand that its tough to come up with things to say other than "Ha, Ha, we won!." But the Pacers fans manage to do it all the time. Heck, we came up with like 5 pages on Diener; I'm sure you'll get it eventually.

Oh, and sure Melo>Scola (and I definitely took out a few>>>, Scola played really well I thought except for foul trouble), but Scola's damn good, and the Rockets are gonna be a force this year. This may come as the only stupid move the Spurs have ever made.



I believe the world championship are invite-only, unless you're the host country or regional champ.

Exactly, so is this for the World Championships ("regional champ")? And I just sorta assumed Argentina was in cause all their players stayed home, I guess they're not.

rexnom
09-01-2007, 02:20 PM
Since when are the world championships more important than the olympics in basketball? There's no question that the world cup is bigger in soccer but in bball? Hmm...

bulldog
09-01-2007, 02:29 PM
I'm actually certain most nations consider the World Championships a bigger deal, again as shags said because of the World Cup/Olympics dynamic they're used to. Also, athletics (track and field) are decently big in Europe so the team sports don't take center stage the way they do in the US, as people are watching Olympic sports they're used to following regularly.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 03:24 PM
The Olympics are a more important title to win by default. HALF as many tams are invited. You need to play a tournament just to qualify for a bid, wheras the WBC are a product invitiations.

Doesn't matter what's more important. The Olympics are more impressive. Both tournaments get the best players from each country.

bulldog
09-01-2007, 03:44 PM
The Olympics are a more important title to win by default. HALF as many tams are invited. You need to play a tournament just to qualify for a bid, wheras the WBC are a product invitiations.

Doesn't matter what's more important. The Olympics are more impressive. Both tournaments get the best players from each country.

Terrorist.


Just kidding. But I felt it was appropriate.

The resons the Olympics are less important is due to regional imbalance. Half as many teams are invited, and every region must be represented. As a result, just as in soccer, many of the best European teams are left out. And thus you get to play Angola, but not Lithuania. So the talent and quality is better in the WC.

And I don't make this stuff up, for whatever reason the Euro's consider the WC more important. I'm just transmitting the info, don't shoot the messenger.

JayRedd
09-01-2007, 03:57 PM
And I don't make this stuff up, for whatever reason the Euro's consider the WC more important. I'm just transmitting the info, don't shoot the messenger.

Yeah, well, excuse me...but aren't these the same people that consider things like "the environment," "healthcare" and "culture" important too?

Sorry, pal, but this is America. We measure success in MPG, GDP and Olympic Medal Counts, okay?

And you're either with us, or you're against us.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 04:03 PM
The resons the Olympics are less important is due to regional imbalance. Half as many teams are invited, and every region must be represented. As a result, just as in soccer, many of the best European teams are left out. And thus you get to play Angola, but not Lithuania. So the talent and quality is better in the WC.



Um, Lithuania has a chance to make the Olympics every 4 years. It's called a QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT. You know, the thing we're playing right now?

The Olympics are a series of tournaments where everybody in the world can qualify, but only a select few get in.

So yeah, a tournament so exclusive only 12 teams can qualify for is so much less difficult than an invite-only tournament double the size. Excellent point.

Considering Lithuania has qualified for the last several Olympics, your argument has even less steam.

But then again, you don't even have a clue what we're playing for right now, do you? You just exist in this thread to put down the US team at every opportunity, even though you admit you have NO CLUE what's going on. I don't know why you do it, but it's your niche here, which is fine. Just don't pretend like you're not trying to do that.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 04:12 PM
Brazil up early on Argentina. Argentina will fail to clinch an Olympic bid if they don't win today. They get to spend their summer next year in the wild card tournament.

rexnom
09-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Um, Lithuania has a chance to make the Olympics every 4 years. It's called a QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT. You know, the thing we're playing right now?

The Olympics are a series of tournaments where everybody in the world can qualify, but only a select few get in.

So yeah, a tournament so exclusive only 12 teams can qualify for is so much less difficult than an invite-only tournament double the size. Excellent point.

Considering Lithuania has qualified for the last several Olympics, your argument has even less steam.

But then again, you don't even have a clue what we're playing for right now, do you? You just exist in this thread to put down the US team at every opportunity, even though you admit you have NO CLUE what's going on. I don't know why you do it, but it's your niche here, which is fine. Just don't pretend like you're not trying to do that.
Take it easy, Champ. Why don't you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while.

Bulldog makes a very legit point. Because the Olympics are smaller and not by invitation, you are going to have a smaller number of contenders. That makes sense. There just aren't as many good Asian or African teams, for example. Thus, a lot of Euro teams get left out.

On the flip side, it just seems that every World Championships there seems to be an elite group of teams that have a chance to win. Everyone else is just pretending. For example, last year, anyone could have told you that it was going to be Greece, the U.S., Spain, and Argentina in the final four. Sure, Germany, Italy, Lithuania, and others made some games interesting to watch but in the end it was going to be those four contenders. It just took A LOT of time to clear everyone else out. Thus, why does it even matter if Europe doesn't get to send all of it's teams? The elite ones will make it. Only the elite ones can compete, anyway.

Those are the two arguments as I see them. Both valid. I just always thought that an Olympic gold medal was more prestigious.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 04:23 PM
the point is, everybody has a chance to qualify for the olympics, so the argument that a bigger field is better is stupid. Everybody has a chance to earna beth, only a select few are able to do it.

Nevermind, Angola QUALIFIED for the WBC last year, which makes the argument even more asinine. Last I checked, every region was represented in the WBC as well, so that argument also gets thrown out the window.

If there a single argument left for the WBC being a harder tournament, aside from, "everybody else likes it more, so it must be tougher?"

rexnom
09-01-2007, 05:19 PM
the point is, everybody has a chance to qualify for the olympics, so the argument that a bigger field is better is stupid. Everybody has a chance to earna beth, only a select few are able to do it.

Nevermind, Angola QUALIFIED for the WBC last year, which makes the argument even more asinine. Last I checked, every region was represented in the WBC as well, so that argument also gets thrown out the window.

If there a single argument left for the WBC being a harder tournament, aside from, "everybody else likes it more, so it must be tougher?"
I think the reason why many European countries might think it's tougher and more important is because we can probably list 10 European teams better than any African team. In the WBCs, all those 10 European teams will play before that African team. That African team can get in but only on merit and not before all the other teams that are better than it. In the Olympics, because there is a certain regional requirement, some teams that are not as good as others might get in when they shouldn't. That's how I understand that argument.

SparkyPacer
09-01-2007, 05:34 PM
Yea, but not all 10 of those European teams have a probable chance of winning it. In the NBA playoffs you could put the 8 best teams and the 8 worst teams in the league, and probably 90% of the time you'd have the same outcome as you would in a normal playoffs. Just my opinion though.

shags
09-01-2007, 05:51 PM
Um, Lithuania has a chance to make the Olympics every 4 years. It's called a QUALIFYING TOURNAMENT. You know, the thing we're playing right now?

The Olympics are a series of tournaments where everybody in the world can qualify, but only a select few get in.

So yeah, a tournament so exclusive only 12 teams can qualify for is so much less difficult than an invite-only tournament double the size. Excellent point.

Considering Lithuania has qualified for the last several Olympics, your argument has even less steam.

But then again, you don't even have a clue what we're playing for right now, do you? You just exist in this thread to put down the US team at every opportunity, even though you admit you have NO CLUE what's going on. I don't know why you do it, but it's your niche here, which is fine. Just don't pretend like you're not trying to do that.

You must have flunked reading comprehension in school.

All bulldog and myself are saying is that the rest of the world thinks the World Championships are more important than the Olympics. I came across this article (which took me all of 5 minutes to find, btw). Here's the link:

http://www.nba.com/wbc06/primer.html

According to this, every country gets the opportunity qualify for the World Championships. Only 5 get selected, and one of those is the host country. And the last section solidifies the point we were making. I'm not sure which one is most important. A valid argument can be made for both.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 06:15 PM
I think the reason why many European countries might think it's tougher and more important is because we can probably list 10 European teams better than any African team. In the WBCs, all those 10 European teams will play before that African team. That African team can get in but only on merit and not before all the other teams that are better than it. In the Olympics, because there is a certain regional requirement, some teams that are not as good as others might get in when they shouldn't. That's how I understand that argument.

Yeah, but African teams have to make the WBC too...

The better European teams have a chance to play themselves in (and they'll get a second chance in the wild card tournament next year). It's not like the Olympics will exclude the best non-champion teams.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 06:30 PM
Argentina comes back and blows by brazil, 91-80. They get their bid into Shanghai.

Anthem
09-01-2007, 07:52 PM
I haven't been watching this. Is PR playing that well, or are we playing this poorly?

bulldog
09-01-2007, 07:55 PM
But then again, you don't even have a clue what we're playing for right now, do you? You just exist in this thread to put down the US team at every opportunity, even though you admit you have NO CLUE what's going on. I don't know why you do it, but it's your niche here, which is fine. Just don't pretend like you're not trying to do that.

One last post and then I'm done with you, man. At first I thought your little shtick was cute, but now I'm just tired and bored. If you wish to point out a place where I actually insulted the US team, please feel free, but I'm not gonna comment on it. I apologize for pointing out it ain't '92 and this ain't the dream team, that was my bad, when I come visit Pistons digest I'll make sure to come waving two flags Don King style and bury my head in the sand.

Your qualifying argument is technically true, but you and I both know why it's false in practice. Rexnom already pointed out most of it, and since I'm pretty sure you know why you're wrong but argue just for the sake of it, I'm gonna let it rest.

And a piece of advice; let the anger go, my friend. Just breath out.


Yeah, well, excuse me...but aren't these the same people that consider things like "the environment," "healthcare" and "culture" important too?

Sorry, pal, but this is America. We measure success in MPG, GDP and Olympic Medal Counts, okay?

And you're either with us, or you're against us.

You're right, I recant. USA! USA! USA! I'm gonna go eat a steak. Raw.

Naptown_Seth
09-01-2007, 07:56 PM
What is this magic list of elite contenders that did make the WBC but missed the Olympics either 2 years prior or after?

To me the debate about the WBC being harder to win is like the debate that says it would be harder to win the NCAA tourney if it was just the top 64 teams. That's BS because in the end the very best teams would still be there beating weaker teams along the way.

If that 16 seed wasn't a chump team but truly the 64th best team in the nation and actually beat the top seed, then WTF is that team doing as the top seed? All it proves is that they weren't the best team after all. And in both cases those top teams had to already play their way into that status, it wasn't just handed to them, which is why they almost always make good on it.



Maybe the idea that the world views the WBC as a bigger deal is true, but not being from one of those countries I can't honestly say. I do know that China is making a pretty freaking big deal about hosting the Olympics and is all worried that their star player won't get the proper development for a good showing in those Olympics.



I also know that we are supposed to all be enjoying basketball in this thread rather than in a debate, except when the Euro's pop in and talk s***. Then I break out my Sunny in Philly siggy again. :D

bulldog
09-01-2007, 08:15 PM
What is this magic list of elite contenders that did make the WBC but missed the Olympics either 2 years prior or after?


So I compared the lists of the 2006 Olympics with the current world rankings, and the only Euro teams that seem to have missed out are Russia and France, although these are both good teams you're right, neither are probably contenders (well, France is pretty good, they maybe could have won, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt) and thus in 2006 at least it probably wouldn't have made a difference.

But in general I think its a decent point, the way the Olympics are set up the 12 best teams won't be there, whereas in the WC they will be. While the qualification argument is good in theory, its not true in practice. **edit: what I had here previously wasn't quite right, I can't really phrase what I'm trying to say, for now I'll concede the point until I can come up with a way to explain what I mean**

I'll reiterate my previous statements, I think the main reason much of the world is more interested in the WC is because A) the world cup comparison and B) they follow other Olympic sports like athletics and swimming more during non-Olympic years than Americans do (for example track seems really big in England compared to the US), and the Olympics is when these sports truly shine. Thus during the Olympics they are less interested in basketball or soccer in particular and more on these events and the Olympics as a whole, whereas during the WC basketball takes center stage. If you like the Olympics more, fine. The world is a heterogenous place, as someone mentioned China's really into the Olympics cause they're in Beijing, if two of the worlds most populous countried are really into Olympic basketball then I'd say Olympic basketball is pretty relevant.




I also know that we are supposed to all be enjoying basketball in this thread rather than in a debate, except when the Euro's pop in and talk s***. Then I break out my Sunny in Philly siggy again. :D

a) I'm not European, b) when did I talk ****? c) isn't this the sort of discussion these message board are for?

Naptown_Seth
09-01-2007, 08:29 PM
a) I'm not European, b) when did I talk ****? c) isn't this the sort of discussion these message board are for?
Didn't say you were, didn't say you did, didn't say it wasn't.

But you've got Kstat with the chip on the shoulder? Sheesh. I intentionally space out separate comments and I thought it was clear that I was saying that the group in here discussing should all be on the same side, rooting for the same team and just happy to have some taste of real ball during the dullest part of the offseason.

Naptown_Seth
09-01-2007, 08:31 PM
Back to the game, PR has run out of gas. Nice to also see the US showing some solid interest down the stretch rather than getting bored. They are playing pretty solid team ball at both ends.

bulldog
09-01-2007, 08:34 PM
Didn't say you were, didn't say you did, didn't say it wasn't.

But you've got Kstat with the chip on the shoulder? Sheesh. I intentionally space out separate comments and I thought it was clear that I was saying that the group in here discussing should all be on the same side, rooting for the same team and just happy to have some taste of real ball during the dullest part of the offseason.

My bad, misunderstood.

I also compiled my previous posts to make Kstat's job easier, some edited for space. Feel free to delete this mods since its redudant, but I'd request you also delete all of his posts accusing me of being un-American, since they're unnecessary personal attacks and hurtful.
Post 1
Why is Olympic team the only team held to such ridiculous expectations? If we drop a group game but win the whole thing I'd still be pretty happy. I just find it silly that unless we win every game by about 20 people complain. It ain't '92 any more.
<o></o>Post 2
Which is why Argentina kept getting to the rim without a problem. referring to our lack of size, not exactly rah rah USA material, but true.
Post 3
We'll almost certainly make it, I just don't think we'll necessarily win every game by 20. looks like I was wrong. ;)

Us and Brazil maybe? Argentina's already in, they have no incentive. on this as well
<o>
Post 4
</o><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_1" o:spid="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/smilies/wink_pd.gif" style='width:11.25pt;height:11.25pt;visibility:vis ible;mso-wrap-style:square'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:\Users\Karlo\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.gif" o:title="wink_pd"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--> To be fair, you can't really play your best against such an overmatched opponent, you play down to their level. Truehoop mentions we have no post up game, but we didn't really need one in this game, you can take teams like this out with defensive pressure alone. And, as much as you hate Kobe personally, you have to admit he's a monster, for a superstar to show that much dedication, get mentally prepared and play stifling defense against trivial competition is pretty unique. As far as the team goes, I don't think you can say too much good or bad about us so far.

Post 5

Pau Gasol. Spain. I believe they are quite literally the last world champion...And I never said the US doesn't have a post game, just that they didn't show it, and didn't need it against Venezuela (actually, to be fair, Truehoop said that, and I agreed that its something to keep an eye on).

Post 6
Yea, looks like even Brazil isn't gonna put up too much of a challenge...and that was supposed to be one of the few competitive games in the tourney for the US,

Post 7
Well, yes and no.

You can't use the best players argument, cause we haven't sent our best (although I think the last few years its been close) and that hasn't prevented the losses from being considered significant.

But you can say that since they've already qualified, and we haven't, there's a different level of intensity riding on these games. Not to mention the tournament is a notch below the ones we've previously played them in.
It's just like the NBA, this is the regular season, we need these wins to get to the real playoffs, but they're not that meaningful. I was wrong on this, thought Argentina had already qualified since they hadn't sent their best

Anthem
09-01-2007, 08:36 PM
Back to the game, PR has run out of gas. Nice to also see the US showing some solid interest down the stretch rather than getting bored. They are playing pretty solid team ball at both ends.
Or at least less sloppy ball than PR. Labron got lucky on that dunk.

I'd go absolutely batty if we were able to get Michael Redd or Mike Miller on this team. We need shooters in the worst way, and those two guys are filling it up.

Naptown_Seth
09-01-2007, 08:38 PM
One other thing, just as the short arc helps Melo's mid-deep game shine, I think Mike Miller has improved as he stopped stepping right to the line and instead stayed farther back in his normal NBA range, like that bomb he just hit.

Reminds me of how everyone thought Reggie would blow up with the closer line but he really didn't. Other guys benefitted but Reggie wasn't really struggling where the line was and didn't really have a drastically better make rate a couple of feet closer.

Naptown_Seth
09-01-2007, 08:45 PM
Miller is doing what Joe Johnson failed to do at the WBC, fill it up from the outside. JJ was 31% and took the 2nd most 3s last summer.


Kayne with the dish. That was nice.

And then the deep bomb, sick.


One final note on the most important tourney. USA ball is ranked #1 in the world. Team USA views the Olympics as the biggest event, the one they most want to win. So as a competing nation are you most psyched to beat them in the Olympics or WBC? I mean we are discounting Argentina's effort since Manu and Nocioni aren't there, how big was it to beat the US without Kobe and Kidd and Garnett?

Seems to me that the top teams would determine the top stage, with Team USA being the top team.

Also at the last WBC the top 4 teams were Greece, Spain, Argentina and the US. They each easily handled their "final 8" round games (to win and make the final 4), the closest game being a 17 point spread. In other words there weren't that many legit contenders at the WBC and all 4 of those will be returning to the Olympics.

Nice to see Germany, France, Lithuania, etc getting the chance to get blown out by the top squads, but in terms of quality of title I think the WBC is identical to the Olympics. Heck, Spain beat Greece by 23 to win the title, and that was without Gasol.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 09:20 PM
USA and Argentina are both in. Now for a 1st-place rematch in the American championship game.

Kstat
09-01-2007, 09:22 PM
I mean we are discounting Argentina's effort since Manu and Nocioni aren't there, how big was it to beat the US without Kobe and Kidd and Garnett?

My point exactly.

All of a sudden we're giving Argentina the excuse the US team was NEVER allowed.

It's a black mark on USA basketball when OUR best players aren't there and we lose, but when Argentina's best players don't show up, it's understandable because "they don't care as much?"

Nice double standard.

LoneGranger33
09-01-2007, 09:43 PM
Yeah, but our best players are usually better than their best players. We just don't play team ball as well, which is why their best players' absences are more noticeable. You take Parker away from the Spurs, they aren't as good. But you replace Kobe with T-Mac and it's really not that big of a deal. Aren't we supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard anyhow?

Kstat
09-01-2007, 09:45 PM
Yeah, but our best players are usually better than their best players. We just don't play team ball as well, which is why their best players' absences are more noticeable. You take Parker away from the Spurs, they aren't as good. But you replace Kobe with T-Mac and it's really not that big of a deal. Aren't we supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard anyhow?

We hold ourselves to a higher standard of success, but when you put other countries into our class, you bring their expectation level right up with them.

When the other elite countries come out and admit they're still our little whipping boys, then I'll forgive them getting whipped by us when their best guys don't show up.

Kstat
09-02-2007, 02:15 PM
USA vs Argentina part VII tonight at 7.

Seed
09-02-2007, 03:22 PM
We hold ourselves to a higher standard of success, but when you put other countries into our class, you bring their expectation level right up with them.

When the other elite countries come out and admit they're still our little whipping boys, then I'll forgive them getting whipped by us when their best guys don't show up.
If 'We' ever want PD to become an int'l board & place for all Pacer fans, then these posts are not the way.

Kstat
09-02-2007, 03:26 PM
If 'We' ever want PD to become an int'l board & place for all Pacer fans, then these posts are not the way.

If international teams want to put themselves on a level with team USA, then they have to hold themselves to the same standards we're held to. Sorry, can't have it both ways. Can't blow the "world has caught up to you" horn every time you beat us, and then shrink to the "who cares, you're supposed to win" line every time we beat you.

Kstat
09-02-2007, 07:25 PM
USA with a commanding 35-14 lead on Argentina after 10 minutes.

Kstat
09-02-2007, 07:34 PM
You get a distinct :laugh: feeling the US is enjoying beating up Argentina...

Kstat
09-02-2007, 07:35 PM
51-21.

The scary thing is, there's still 25 minutes remaining....

Kstat
09-02-2007, 09:05 PM
USA goes undefeated again in the American championships, 118-81.

Great showing. I hope we can keep it up next summer.

FrenchConnection
09-02-2007, 09:47 PM
USA goes undefeated again in the American championships, 118-81.

Great showing. I hope we can keep it up next summer.

The level of competition here was not all that high, but it feels good to get the confidence back. If we maintain a core group of guys and encourage them to play as a team, we can play under FIBA rules.

Kstat
09-02-2007, 10:03 PM
Luis Scola was named the tournament MVP, BTW.

King Tuts Tomb
09-03-2007, 01:50 AM
If international teams want to put themselves on a level with team USA, then they have to hold themselves to the same standards we're held to. Sorry, can't have it both ways. Can't blow the "world has caught up to you" horn every time you beat us, and then shrink to the "who cares, you're supposed to win" line every time we beat you.

Great post. You summed up everything I've been thinking since our 04 loss.

Seed
09-03-2007, 07:16 AM
US is always expected to win when it plays Lebron and Kobe..
I'm looking forward to seeing them against Spain, Greece and Argentina (with full roster) in the Olympics.

and BTW, if Serbia ever decides to show-up with half of its roster, they are a great opponent too.

Cobol Sam
09-03-2007, 02:34 PM
How the heck does Scola get Tourney MVP? Shouldn't that goto someone on the undefeated team who is winning by 30+ points a game?

rexnom
09-03-2007, 02:43 PM
Can we safely say that LeBron has finally figured out this whole "international" game now?

Anthem
09-03-2007, 03:21 PM
How the heck does Scola get Tourney MVP? Shouldn't that goto someone on the undefeated team who is winning by 30+ points a game?
What player, if you took him off the US team, would have led to the downfall of the US? I guess you could argue Kobe (more for the attitude than the tangible contributions), but I think the US still would have swept without him.

JayRedd
09-03-2007, 04:02 PM
What player, if you took him off the US team, would have led to the downfall of the US? I guess you could argue Kobe (more for the attitude than the tangible contributions), but I think the US still would have swept without him.

Probably no one.

But they'd be a lot worse without J-Kidd. Kobe of course brings an intensity and aura that no one else can match, but Kidd just changes the whole game into a "who can get open for a highlight reel play first" contest. People move without the ball and run in transition more just because he's on the court.

Kstat
09-03-2007, 10:56 PM
How the heck does Scola get Tourney MVP? Shouldn't that goto someone on the undefeated team who is winning by 30+ points a game?

If you think that was funny, check out the all-tournament team...

C: Esteban Bautista (Uruguay)
F: Hector Romero (Mexico)
F: Carmelo Anthony (USA)
G: Romel Beck (Mexico)
G: Leandro Barbosa (brazil)

6th man: Fedric Kammerichs, Argentina

TWO MEXICANS in the all tournament team, and no Jason Kidd :laugh:

JayRedd
09-03-2007, 11:05 PM
TWO MEXICANS in the all tournament team, and no Jason Kidd :laugh:

Final stats for JKidd: 28 assists, 7 FGA

SparkyPacer
09-03-2007, 11:05 PM
How did the MVP not get in?

bulldog
09-04-2007, 05:50 PM
Yea, somethings wrong there. If Scola is MVP, he would be on the team. And I don't care how biased you are, no one would put only one American on the first team.

Also, is Carmelo Anthony's legacy gonna be that he was really good in international play, but relatively one dimensional in the NBA?


Final stats for JKidd: 28 assists, 7 FGA

Michael Redd is the only person I've heard go out and say how happy he is to be playing on that team. This has got to be fun for those guys. Poor Kobe, now he has to go back to the Lakers.

Naptown_Seth
09-05-2007, 12:39 AM
If international teams want to put themselves on a level with team USA, then they have to hold themselves to the same standards we're held to. Sorry, can't have it both ways. Can't blow the "world has caught up to you" horn every time you beat us, and then shrink to the "who cares, you're supposed to win" line every time we beat you.
I agree with this.

One reason the world hasn't actually caught up to the US - if 2 of their top players sit out then they are in big trouble, if 2 of the top US players sit out they just get Dwight Howard and Mike Miller instead (...instead of KG and Ray Allen perhaps for this example).

The talent among the US player pool ranks is insanely deep, thus the world hasn't caught up just yet. Even per capita I'd say the US still leads most countries in basketball talent.


Coach K is the greatest coach ever. He rolled through a tourney with huge margins of victory, yet only had one player on the all-tourney team and he wasn't the MVP of the tourney either.

Guess Nolan Richardson really choked.

Naptown_Seth
09-05-2007, 12:46 AM
What player, if you took him off the US team, would have led to the downfall of the US? I guess you could argue Kobe (more for the attitude than the tangible contributions), but I think the US still would have swept without him.
What player, if you took him off the US team and replaced Scola with him, would have led to Argentina being a better overall team?

Hmm, Kobe, Lebron, Kidd, Melo...

The logic works both ways. Biggest fish in a smaller pond doesn't make you the biggest fish. It makes you (un)lucky.

An MVP CAN BE on a losing team, I'm not arguing against that. But that player must be so good that he would impact any team more than the other options would.

When Andre Dawson won with the losing Cubs it was because even if you put him on a good team he would still shine as the best guy they had, not just the only guy barely keeping the ship afloat.

Robertmto
09-05-2007, 04:01 PM
JJ Reddick is the greatest shooter ever.

fixed. :laugh::confused: