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View Full Version : Donaghy to Blow whistle on other referees



Gyron
08-20-2007, 08:44 AM
It is being reported that Donaghy will be revealing the gambling activities of 20 other league officials as part of his plea agreement. This could be very bad if it reveals the other officals bet on games. If it turns out they are going to casinos etc, I'm fine with that. If they are betting on NBA games, this could be HUGE. This could destroy the NBA.

http://www.bookmakersreview.com/c/News/19-08-2007_Donaghy_blows_the_whistle_on_other_NBA_refere es/

<TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD class=contentheading width="100%">19-08-2007 Donaghy blows the whistle on other NBA referees

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=contentpaneopen><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>ESPN Radio revealed that the disgraced referee, who is currently awaiting sentencing on November 9 for conspiracy to engage in wire fraud and supply confidential betting information to gamblers, will provide federal prosecutors information about gambling activities of 20 other NBA officials.
Spokespersons for the basketball league and the referees association denied the possibility of other NBA officials being investigated for betting on basketball games.
In other news, the Association of Tennis Professionals appointed two former Scotland Yard detectives to investigate irregular betting patterns in the Poland Open match between Nikolay Davydenko and Martin Vassallo Arguello. The two investigators will work under the guidance of the Integrity Team of the British Horseracing Authority.
"The BHA team are industry leaders in this area and their expertise, knowledge and resource will be invaluable," commented Etienne de Villiers, Chairman of the ATP.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Gyron
08-20-2007, 08:45 AM
I found this article on bookmakersreview.com. Who knew you could get reviews on your favorite bookies....

Unclebuck
08-20-2007, 08:49 AM
I guarantee none of the other refs bet on NBA games in which they were referees

Ransom
08-20-2007, 08:50 AM
Read in this context (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2979605), it doesn't look like the other refs are doing anything illegal, just possibly awkward. If you're going to indict every ref that ever sat at a blackjack table, you're going to be in trouble, and we haven't even mentioned players.

Gyron
08-20-2007, 08:55 AM
Like I said, if its anything other than betting on the games, I'm fine with it. I have no problem with them enjoying thereselves as long as it doesn't involve betting on an NBA game.

Hicks
08-20-2007, 09:15 AM
I guarantee none of the other refs bet on NBA games in which they were referees

But wouldn't you have said before this whole story came out: "I guarantee no ref bet on NBA games in which they were referees" ?

Hicks
08-20-2007, 09:17 AM
It's still a big story to me because, as others have pointed out, even if they were only going to blackjack tables or what have you: THAT IS STRICTLY NOT ALLOWED by David Stern and the NBA. Mr. "letter of the law" when it came to the PHO suspensions needs to not be a complete and total hypocrite with these officials if they have in fact done these things.

Unclebuck
08-20-2007, 09:18 AM
But wouldn't you have said before this whole story came out: "I guarantee no ref bet on NBA games in which they were referees" ?

I don't know, I was never asked and never really thought about it. But I do know when the first word of the Donaghy thing came out, I did post, "Now this is something I do believe". As opposed to some who believe Stern controls the refs and forces them to try and get certain teams to win.

avoidingtheclowns
08-20-2007, 10:43 AM
It's still a big story to me because, as others have pointed out, even if they were only going to blackjack tables or what have you: THAT IS STRICTLY NOT ALLOWED by David Stern and the NBA. Mr. "letter of the law" when it came to the PHO suspensions needs to not be a complete and total hypocrite with these officials if they have in fact done these things.

what he said

JayRedd
08-20-2007, 10:53 AM
It's still a big story to me because, as others have pointed out, even if they were only going to blackjack tables or what have you: THAT IS STRICTLY NOT ALLOWED by David Stern and the NBA. Mr. "letter of the law" when it came to the PHO suspensions needs to not be a complete and total hypocrite with these officials if they have in fact done these things.

I probably agree with you here, but I'm wondering what he's going to do as far as punishment. You really can't suspend 1/3 of your referee workforce. There are no legit replacements. Are there punishments listed along with the no gambling rule in the CBA or is it up to League discretion? I guess fines would make the most sense.

Hicks
08-20-2007, 11:23 AM
I probably agree with you here, but I'm wondering what he's going to do as far as punishment. You really can't suspend 1/3 of your referee workforce. There are no legit replacements. Are there punishments listed along with the no gambling rule in the CBA or is it up to League discretion? I guess fines would make the most sense.

It's a good point, but then why not throw down mega-sized fines on the players who left the bench instead of suspending key players on a playoff team in the middle of a series? Doesn't that make more sense? Make it a real tough penalty; maybe a percentage of their salary or something, but let them play.

Kegboy
08-20-2007, 11:34 AM
I probably agree with you here, but I'm wondering what he's going to do as far as punishment. You really can't suspend 1/3 of your referee workforce. There are no legit replacements. Are there punishments listed along with the no gambling rule in the CBA or is it up to League discretion? I guess fines would make the most sense.

They can always go back to 2 refs a game. ;)

Seriously, this isn't like the plane ticket scandal, which, while against the law, didn't have anything to do with the sport. While the gambling they did wasn't illegal (we assume), there's a reason why it's strictly forbidden.

If Stern is to be believed, they took the allegations against Donaghy from two years ago very seriously, and even though they didn't find proof, they did reprimand him for the stuff with his neighbor. They have to not only take these allegations just as seriously, but show they're taking them seriously.

They had someone accused of legal gambling, and it ended up with the feds coming to them with mafia connections. If they don't do their due dillegence here, the "long gunman" excuse won't hold much water.

Arcadian
08-20-2007, 11:47 AM
How would Donaghy know this?

Gyron
08-20-2007, 11:49 AM
Don't you ever talk to your coworkers? Go out with them and chat? Go do stuff, like maybe golf and shoot the ****? I know I do. I know more about my coworkers than I do some of my family.

Naptown_Seth
08-20-2007, 12:24 PM
I don't know, I was never asked and never really thought about it. But I do know when the first word of the Donaghy thing came out, I did post, "Now this is something I do believe". As opposed to some who believe Stern controls the refs and forces them to try and get certain teams to win.
Again I've proven a much simpler, very realistic manner in which games can be "adjusted".

A) Proven - you can bet outcomes based on player-ref interactions, there are apparently well-known patterns

B) Proven - Stern can assign whichever refs to whichever game he wants

Result - if you want to fudge a game a certain way you just put the right people together, then let the chips fall where they may. An equivilant might be adding extra lottery chances for a team. It's still a random draw but it's at least more likely to go the way you want it to.


Even if you want to fall back on "this was only over-under" which it apparently was not based on some of the very serious LINE MOVEMENT on several of TD's games right before tip due to heavy betting on one team, you still have to admit that a FT shooting team could be helped by a quick whistle and a team without depth could be damaged the same way. Example - Miami over Dallas due to the high number of FTAs by Wade.

And again, that ignores the idea that was expressed which is that part of it was INDIVIDUAL DYNAMICS, ie one ref with one player. Maybe that was misrepresented in the statements, but at this point it sounds a lot more personal than just "there are going to be a lot of fouls tonight". The gamblers wouldn't need Donaghy to tell them that crap, they study which refs call more fouls.


Ask yourself this, forget my view, the GAMBLERS WANTED INFO FROM DONAGHY and that's a fact. Why would they bother getting info they already knew? They wouldn't. They were motivated to use him to get to better info, info other people did not have access to. So it wasn't just simple trends by other refs, it was details and motivations behind those trends, things that might actually counter what a the trends would suggest.

And whatever the gamblers knew Stern could also know and make use of, all without actually saying "You call the game this way". It's as simple and direct as shifting the defense when a pull hitter comes up. Not "fixed" but "adjusted". Still might not work but it's in the house's favor. It doesn't require a conspiracy even as involved as this very real Donaghy case.

And I'm not really in the "it's all fixed" camp Buck. I'm just also not so naive as to not perk up my ears whey JVGundy says something, and we see some odd calls, and then a case like this pops up...hard not to be :hmm:



As for other refs gambling, obviously the complete joke of an attempt to investigate Donaghy's legal gambling in which they not only found no sign of legal gambling but also no sign of mafia connections despite being tipped off demands that they put forth a maximum effort to look into any other ref gambling.

Perhaps they can get the FBI to help. At least if they actually want results...which I strongly doubt. Token effort will find "nothing", Stern will say "see, rogue official, making up stuff to save his own butt, go back to buying the product please, it's perfectly legit and wholesome".

JayRedd
08-20-2007, 01:32 PM
It's a good point, but then why not throw down mega-sized fines on the players who left the bench instead of suspending key players on a playoff team in the middle of a series? Doesn't that make more sense?

Well...the rule for that was "leave the bench and you miss the next game". It was set in stone, so there was no possibility of interpretation or having a sliding scale for punishment in Stern's/the League's eyes.

I don't have time to look into the CBA (which is where I've heard this rule exists anyway) to know if there are defined punishments for playing table games in a casino or not. Does that rule mandate they're suspended for 10 games? 20 games? No playoff duty that year? Fines?

I honestly don't know. Would be cool if some of these professional sports writers took the 10 minutes to look that up and told us.

Regardless, it would be best for Stern if there was no "set in stone" penalty attached so that he doesn't have to either a) suspend 1/3 of the workforce (although I imagine the suspensions would be staggered enough so as not to affect actual gameplay), or b) not suspend them and go against the letter of the law.

My guess is there are no mandated penalties attached and it's up to League discretion how they're handed out. My guess is that there will be slighly higher than slap on the wrist fines for all involved.

(the silly part of this whole post is that I probably could have found the answer to my question by the time I finished typing all this nonsense. Wild speculation is more fun though. I can see why most sportswriters just stick to that. As we all know, facts are for puss***.)

Oneal07
08-20-2007, 01:40 PM
Snitch!!! Nobody likes em lol

Arcadian
08-20-2007, 04:09 PM
I don't believe the number 20.

It isn't a job where you see each other every day. They don't even work the same games. I don't see how they would trust info that could get them in trouble to an aquaintence. Maybe some are closer than that but 20? I doubt that.

Also I if he can name 20 others have heard the rumors as well. Either it means the league turns a blind eye to it or he is lying. At this point I lean to the latter. If Stern called in a private eye on the tip that Donaghy was seen in a casino then I have to believe he would have investigated rumors of rampant betting amoung his refs.

If it is a third of all NBA refs then I fully expect someone else to come forward. That is just too many for just one person to have an interest in blowing the whistle. Bookies, honest refs, players, league officials, someone else would come forward and back these claims.

Gyron
08-20-2007, 04:28 PM
But Arcadian, it could easily be not betting on games, it could be just gambling. Possibly things like playing at a casino. I don't see how 20 is really that high of a number if you have say 100 officials. I don't really know how many the NBA has, but 20 is not out of reach.

I'm not saying he's not lying, I'm just not ready to discount his story quite yet.

Fool
08-20-2007, 05:36 PM
The paper I saw in the Union today while having lunch said the other refs were doing things against the rules (for refs) but not illegal and none were betting on NBA games. Might have been an old paper (it was just sitting at the table I chose) but I wouldn't think so considering the topic.

Kegboy
08-20-2007, 06:05 PM
Refs travel together and I wouldn't be surprised if they hang out when they're in NBA cities. What else are they gonna do, traveling every day for 6 months. If a crew works a number of games together, that's a good share of their time they spend together.

20 out of 68 is a lot, no two ways about it.

avoidingtheclowns
08-21-2007, 01:11 PM
i found laimbeer's quote amusing



NBA WON'T DENY REFS GAMBLED IN CASINOS
By MARC BERMAN

August 21, 2007 -- The NBA released a statement yesterday that did not deny last weekend's allegations that up to 20 referees gambled in casinos in violation of their contracts. However, the statement said its investigation shows only disgraced referee Tim Donaghy gambled on the NBA.

If commissioner David Stern has evidence a referee gambled in a casino, he could be fired under terms of his contract that prohibits all refs from wagering.

The loss of 20 referees, one-third the work force, would be devastating to the league with preseason openers slated to begin in less than two months. The NBA declined comment on what disciplinary action would be taken if a referee were found to have gambled in a casino.

"There have been allegations that other referees violated NBA rules prohibiting casino gaming and the like, but it remains our understanding that Tim Donaghy is the only referee who bet on NBA games," NBA spokesman Tim Frank said.

As part of his plea agreement, Donaghy reportedly cited 20 referees who have gambled in some form. The NBA is amidst its own investigation.
"Everything is under review," an NBA executive said last week regarding officials.

The crisis is so deep Stern has placed a gag order on NBA coaches and GMs. It's even trickled down to the WNBA.

Former NBA player and outspoken Detroit Shock coach Bill Laimbeer, who faces the Liberty in the playoffs Friday, told The Post, "You're not going to get me in the middle of that one. David Stern comes down with his big, old super gag order like 'Aaargh.' I'm not going to put my foot into something like that. That's crazy. Maybe I would comment on it, but my job is the preservation of everything and I'm not going to get in the middle of that one."

Donaghy faces sentencing Nov. 9, and the more information he provides the feds likely will lead to a lighter sentence. He faces a maximum 25 years for gambling felonies that included making "picks" on NBA games for gamblers and providing inside information.

marc.berman@nypost.com (marc.berman@nypost.com)

NYPOST LINK (http://www.nypost.com/seven/08212007/sports/nba_wont_deny_refs_gambled_in_.htm)

Gyron
08-21-2007, 01:29 PM
Typical Stern, gag order on everyone and everything. Keep in in the house. What happens in the family stays in the family.

He really is kinda like a mob king pin isn't he?

Shade
08-21-2007, 01:47 PM
Typical Stern, gag order on everyone and everything. Keep in in the house. What happens in the family stays in the family.

He really is kinda like a mob king pin isn't he?

Isn't that kinda...you know...a free speech violation or something?

Hicks
08-21-2007, 01:50 PM
Isn't that kinda...you know...a free speech violation or something?

Not necessarily. I mean, he can still say it if wants, there will simply be consequences from his employer. Not the same as if the law stepped in to prevent him from speaking.

It's like with my job, sure I have the freedom to divulge personal/private information to break confidentiality, but I'd get in serious trouble with my employer for doing so.

BoomBaby31
08-21-2007, 09:48 PM
I don't believe 20 but, I bet there has to be at least 1 other ref involved

Naptown_Seth
08-22-2007, 12:03 AM
If Stern called in a private eye on the tip that Donaghy was seen in a casino then I have to believe he would have investigated rumors of rampant betting amoung his refs.
And the result of that "investigation" even though it was apparently pretty true, at least in some variation?

Yeah, maybe lets not give Stern/NBA credit for being able to sniff out any rumors of gambling. Nothing that is happening to Donaghy now has anything to do with the NBA investigating a casino gambling rumor. Their system of checks has been tested by Donaghy; it failed miserably.

Arcadian
08-22-2007, 12:52 AM
I pretty sure many would believe refs are pimps as well.

All there is at this point are rumors.

Not one name has been named, not one second source has chimed in, we don't even know if it really is 20 refs Donaghy accused and we don't even know what they have been acussed of.

What we do know is Donaghy is dishonest and by all accounts a jerk.

I'm sorry if I'm not ready to crucify the NBA yet.

waterjater
08-23-2007, 07:55 PM
Hope so....my theory is he knew how games were reffed and how games are controlled so he had a good feeling about who and who wouldn't win. Somebody else had to be involved.

Did anyone ever check to see if Donaghy was involved in this game?

95. NBA referees versus Sacramento Kings, Game 6, 2002 Western Conference finals: Kings called for 27 fourth-quarter fouls against the Lakers as L.A. pulled out a 106-102 victory.

There was no need for the Kings to foul, they had a huge lead so in my mind this was the most obvious example ever of the refs "controlling" a game or bringing it close for excitement. The Kings had the best team that year.

Water