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View Full Version : Tinsley is going to have a breakout year



OnlyPacersLeft
08-12-2007, 05:38 PM
I just get the feeling he will...
heres a little glimpse :D
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hzp9hMM030g

woooooo look at the move in the rookie game he put on kenyon martin...OUCH!
can't wait to see how he does under JOB :)

OnlyPacersLeft
08-12-2007, 05:41 PM
heres another one for ya :)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_7xpbTVDTE4

Reggie on the floor...JO on the floor...Tinsley for the tie!

GrangerRanger
08-12-2007, 05:46 PM
I considered last year a breakout season. He actually played 70 games.

Indianapolis_girly
08-12-2007, 05:49 PM
I considered last year a breakout season. He actually played 70 games.
Haha :laugh:
Good one! ;)

Indianapolis_girly
08-12-2007, 05:50 PM
But it will be interesting to see how he does under O'Brien.

BlueNGold
08-12-2007, 06:15 PM
I just hope it's not a break-in season...

I pray to God every night that he is traded...before more embarrassing incidents hit this franchise.

Roaming Gnome
08-12-2007, 06:29 PM
I just hope it's not a break-in season...

I pray to God every night that he is traded...before more embarrassing incidents hit this franchise.

I pray to God every night that he matures and gets it....before we have to do another trade for pennies on the dollar.

Any trade involving Tinsley has us as a disadvantage, So...I'd rather he has a break-out season and grows up a bit, so we don't have to get bent over anymore then we already are with his deal.

Trader Joe
08-12-2007, 06:35 PM
The boys got the talent no doubt about that, but does he have the brains? Part of me thinks he does, part of me thinks he doesn't, I'll be pulling for him.

carpediem024
08-12-2007, 06:38 PM
heres another one for ya :)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_7xpbTVDTE4

Reggie on the floor...JO on the floor...Tinsley for the tie!

Wow. Been a long time since I've heard Al Albert's voice.

Oneal07
08-12-2007, 06:42 PM
Man, I hope he does, cause he has too much talent to just throw it all away!! I wanna see some Brooklyn Ballin' from him, playmaking style next year. If that happens Pacers will be a fun team to watch

count55
08-12-2007, 06:47 PM
Hopefully, this is true and that it has nothing to do with the results of his upcoming trial.

OnlyPacersLeft
08-12-2007, 06:52 PM
man that pass in the first vid to dunleavy over his head was just sick!
He's going to be great! I just think he needs the right coach

DisplacedKnick
08-12-2007, 07:33 PM
I'm disappointed. :(

I thought I was about to read a thread where Tinsley'd been sentenced to prison for the 8 Second Saloon Incident, was gonna break out and we'd have a year long series about it.

I'd watch that.

Rajah Brown
08-12-2007, 07:33 PM
I'll believe JT has the wherewithal to make consitently sound decisions
at crunch time when the games really count when I see it.

And I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for a 'spotted zebra' too...

BlueNGold
08-12-2007, 07:35 PM
man that pass in the first vid to dunleavy over his head was just sick!
He's going to be great! I just think he needs the right coach

If he does well under JOb, I will concede it was the coaching. He certainly does have some interesting skills and has had a number of strong games.

However, it's hard to believe he can make huge strides with his shooting, decision-making, defense and leadership skills just because we have a new coach. Maybe some improvement, but not huge...which is what he needs along with more consistency.

I expect more of the same from him...and that's not good.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
08-12-2007, 07:45 PM
Tinsley having a breakout year is about as likely as the P's going to the finals next season.

Unclebuck
08-12-2007, 08:00 PM
Just as a practical matter, how many players have a breakout year in their 7th season when they are going to be 30 years old during the season.

ajbry
08-12-2007, 08:08 PM
Just as a practical matter, how many players have a breakout year in their 7th season when they are going to be 30 years old during the season.

Exactly. And I wouldn't call a thread predicated solely on a couple of YouTube highlights to warrant actual discussion.

We all know his talent level, but we're all aware of his shortcomings. I don't see any of that changing at this point. The climate of the team isn't set up for him to become some magically amazing NBA point guard.

pianoman
08-12-2007, 08:11 PM
wasn't Tinsley our clutch guy last year? He hit the gw vs. SA, and I can't remember if he hit any others. DG didn't hit any gw shots but showed hope, JO couldn't shoot, and our other guys just didn't seem to care. I think Jt will have a breakout year. Yeah he's been in the league for what 7 years?, but he can still improve. I say top 12 pg in the league. Just look at his stats from this year. If he indeed does breakout, there will be another reason to cheer at Conseco

Arcadian
08-12-2007, 08:11 PM
Point guard is the position where a player can make a big jump later in their careers. Beside it isn't like tins would have come from no where. I remember a time when people here said he was a top 5 point guard. Him having talent has never been the issue.

Major Cold
08-12-2007, 08:37 PM
Tinsley having a breakout year is about as likely as the P's going to the finals next season.

The climate of the team isn't set up for him to become some magically amazing NBA point guard.

http://www.theygay.com/images/celebs/debbie.bmp

dlewyus
08-12-2007, 08:45 PM
I don't believe for a minute that Rick Carlisle made Tinsley the knuckle head that he is. Therefore I'm not holding my breath. If he has anything close to a breakout year, I'll be very surprised. My prediction: The honeymoon with Jim O'bryant will be a short one followed by a bout of sinupoutinitis.

LG33
08-12-2007, 08:46 PM
The jail jokes are getting pretty old (and repetitive). The guy has never committed a crime in his life. Well, not one that he was caught/punished for.

Jose Slaughter
08-12-2007, 08:54 PM
I pray to God every night that he matures and gets it....before we have to do another trade for pennies on the dollar.

Any trade involving Tinsley has us as a disadvantage, So...I'd rather he has a break-out season and grows up a bit, so we don't have to get bent over anymore then we already are with his deal.


He's 29 & beginning his 7th season, just how long you gonna wait?

grace
08-12-2007, 09:11 PM
He's 29 & beginning his 7th season, just how long you gonna wait?


When does he turn 30?

Evan_The_Dude
08-12-2007, 09:41 PM
If he was really a knuckle head, this would be the offseason of all offseasons he would be traded. That said, I think our perception of him and the teams perception of him is completely different. There has to be a reason why Donnie and Larry both have seemed eager to have him as our starting point guard over the years, and I think there's more to it than just talent.

He might be turning 30 during the season, but I think him finally having circumstances that are likely in his favor is what may allow him to truly have a breakout year. As Jermaine said in one of his 50 interviews in the past week, Tinsley has never been given a chance to actually run the offense without plays being called for him (other than with Isiah).There's been times where I wanted him on the first flight out of town, and there's been times that I wanted to run to Conseco and kiss him. But in reality we're much better off keeping him than we are trading him for nothing. Unless he really causes some chemistry problems, I don't see him being bad for the team, and it's pretty obvious at this point that the team agrees with that.

Unclebuck
08-12-2007, 10:40 PM
When does he turn 30?

February

pacerfreak
08-12-2007, 10:48 PM
As difficult as he can be to watch, (at times), I truly hope he is much improved in that he looks to make his teamates better. He is really (I hate to say this) clearly our best option now and in the near future. I hope he breaks out. I believe he has the skills.

mike_D
08-12-2007, 11:13 PM
Tinsley having a breakout season is very unlikely. Lets face it hes a very average pg.He not very talented, other then being a crafty ballhandler and being good in the post what else does he do,For a pg he has horrible athleticism, he isn't very quick, he's a below average shooter,below average defender, not known to have leadership characteristics.Why do people expect him to have a breakout season?

When its all said and done he'll play in about 60 games average 12pts 6assists and shoot 39 % from the floor and give up about 20 points.

Evan_The_Dude
08-12-2007, 11:22 PM
Why should he have a breakout season? Because having a coach that believes in you and wants you to play for him goes a long way.

Eindar
08-12-2007, 11:31 PM
If you ever read what Tinsley had to say about his coach at Iowa State, I think Jim O'Brien has the same type of mentality. Friendly, tough, fair, and demanding. I think Tinsley will respond, but I'm not expecting him to start putting up 20 and 9 or anything.

I have a question about Tinsley, and the Pacers in general, and this might be better as it's own thread, but here it goes. Tinsley is a playground legend, right? And he loves to push the ball. Why is it that we never, ever seem to throw an alley-oop? Is Tinsley somehow deficient in this most basic of playground PG skills, or are we really that unathletic as a team?

MagicRat
08-12-2007, 11:34 PM
I have a question about Tinsley, and the Pacers in general, and this might be better as it's own thread, but here it goes. Tinsley is a playground legend, right? And he loves to push the ball. Why is it that we never, ever seem to throw an alley-oop? Is Tinsley somehow deficient in this most basic of playground PG skills, or are we really that unathletic as a team?

You can't throw an alley-oop if nobody is cutting to the basket.

Alpolloloco
08-13-2007, 12:08 AM
I remember we had an European PG not so long ago who made many alley-oop passes to certain teammates. What was his name again?

And for Tinsley, we are stuck with him so let's hope for the best. But I'm guessing the breakout year will belong to Diener first, I'm anxious to see how Tinsley will handle his demotion halfway through the season.

bellisimo
08-13-2007, 04:36 AM
I always considered JT to be more of a passing PG than a scoring one...
if he can just avg. 8pt and 10 ast a game he'd be where I'd expect him to be...
and last year there were many occasions where he did make the passes but no one was able to put the damn ball in the bucket!

DgR
08-13-2007, 05:57 AM
I think him turning 30 this year is not that much of a disadvantage- since his athleticism is such a non- issue- his relatively advanced age won't have such an impact on his game. But maybe it will make a difference in his mentality (an issue with him)and make him a better PG....

I think confidence is the most important thing for a PG- I saw what happened to Saras after he came to the NBA- the difference in his game before and after was like night and day:eek:. JT is no different- and while he is a better player than Saras and got more chances to play- he was never in the environment that suited his playing style (except for his first 2 seasons when he showed great promise). Playing in a system that suits him wil make a huge difference in his level of performance.

We all know JT is talented- and while I don't think he will ever be a consistent scorer and he will make some dumba$$ decisions from time to time and be injury prone- I firmly believe that a happy player is a better player. I think Tins had a real hard time under RC. This is a guy who thrives in the open court- creativity being a major part in his game- once you take that away from him- obviously he won't provide on the level he can- and that's what RC did.

Under JOB- assuming the team's offense will be more free flowing- I'm positive JT will have his best season yet- which right now is the best thing we can hope for- regarding him. All this, of course, assuming he won't get injured frequently:uhoh::wah::rollout::pray:

NPFII
08-13-2007, 07:13 AM
Ok, lets see -
Will he be a better shooter next season? Not likely
Will he be a better defender next season? Not likely
Will he make better decisions next season? Maybe, though not likely
Will he be a smarter player next season? Not likely
Will he be less prone to injuries next season? Maybe, but not likely

On the other hand -
Will he be a step slower due to his age? Probably
Will he be in good physical condition entering the season? Probably not
Will he shoot more due to the impotency of the other players? Probably
Will he feud with the new coach at some point? Probably
Will the Pacers win enough games to make him (and the team) feel good despite his performances? Probably not

So the only thing going for him is -
Do the Pacers have any reasonable alternative? No

The reality is that if maybe at some point Tinsley was considered (by homers) a top-5 PG, today he's more like a bottom-5

bellisimo
08-13-2007, 08:15 AM
Ok, lets see -
Will he be a better shooter next season? Not likely
Will he be a better defender next season? Not likely
Will he make better decisions next season? Maybe, though not likely
Will he be a smarter player next season? Not likely
Will he be less prone to injuries next season? Maybe, but not likely

On the other hand -
Will he be a step slower due to his age? Probably
Will he be in good physical condition entering the season? Probably not
Will he shoot more due to the impotency of the other players? Probably
Will he feud with the new coach at some point? Probably
Will the Pacers win enough games to make him (and the team) feel good despite his performances? Probably not

So the only thing going for him is -
Do the Pacers have any reasonable alternative? No

The reality is that if maybe at some point Tinsley was considered (by homers) a top-5 PG, today he's more like a bottom-5

you could've just use this icon: :bs:
to refer to this thread - could've saved both of us the time spent :D

Unclebuck
08-13-2007, 08:22 AM
Why should he have a breakout season? Because having a coach that believes in you and wants you to play for him goes a long way.

What is the evidence that O'Brien believes in him and that O'Brien wants Tinsley to play for him. How can we possibly have any idea. How can O'Brien have any idea if he wants Tinsley - he won't know that until training camp starts.

I don't want to re-hash the past - but the only thing I know is except for the first two months of Carlisle's tenure as coach, Rick started Tinsley at point guard whenever he was healthy, in fact I think he believed in Tinsley too much to the detriment of the team.,

rexnom
08-13-2007, 08:49 AM
What is the evidence that O'Brien believes in him and that O'Brien wants Tinsley to play for him. How can we possibly have any idea. How can O'Brien have any idea if he wants Tinsley - he won't know that until training camp starts.

I don't want to re-hash the past - but the only thing I know is except for the first two months of Carlisle's tenure as coach, Rick started Tinsley at point guard whenever he was healthy, in fact I think he believed in Tinsley too much to the detriment of the team.,
I think that Isiah believed in Tinsley too much...Rick had the right idea when he made JT earn the position. Rick's problem was that he inherently is not a good match with Tinsley because Tinsley probably wanted to wave him off every time down...just too much play calling. O'Brien will probably seem like a fair compromise for Tinsley. I'm excited about that because at this point he has negative trade value and if we can squeeze any production out of him, it would be a bonus.

SkipperZ
08-13-2007, 08:58 AM
Just as a practical matter, how many players have a breakout year in their 7th season when they are going to be 30 years old during the season.

steve nash

bellisimo
08-13-2007, 09:16 AM
all in all though...JT just has not been that PG we drafted ever since his mother*or was it grandmother* passed away...

Unclebuck
08-13-2007, 09:18 AM
steve nash

He was one of the best point guards in the NBA when he was at Dallas, but you are correct - he stepped it up to a whole new level with the Suns.



Back to my other point. One thing I know about O"Brien is the first time Tinsley doesn't put out 100% effort on defense - there will be major problems between the two. And if Tinsley doesn't consistantly put out 100% effort on defense, I wouldn't be surprised if Tinlsy is finding himself on the bench quite a bit.

That is the one thing Jim O'Brien insists upon (and the main reason why I like him so much) - you have to put forth 100% effort on defense and if you do, he'll give you tons of freedom offensively. But if you don't put forth the effort defensively - he will not play you.

I think many of us are geting caught up in the three point shots, or the offense or this or that, first and foremost OB is a defensive coach - he insists upon it. He demands it. (keep in mind though, that doesn't mean he'll play only defensive players, but he's good at getting offensive players to buy into the defensive side of things.)

But training camp will be all about defense, the preseason will be all about defense. And the early portion of the schedule (first 25 games or so) our offense will look horrible - primarily because there will be so much emphasis on defense.

naptownmenace
08-13-2007, 09:29 AM
Tinsley having a breakout season is very unlikely. Lets face it hes a very average pg.He not very talented, other then being a crafty ballhandler and being good in the post what else does he do,For a pg he has horrible athleticism, he isn't very quick, he's a below average shooter,below average defender, not known to have leadership characteristics.Why do people expect him to have a breakout season?

When its all said and done he'll play in about 60 games average 12pts 6assists and shoot 39 % from the floor and give up about 20 points.

:ding:


That being said, I hope he plays great so that we can trade him for someone like Andre Miller before the trade deadline.

Dr. Goldfoot
08-13-2007, 09:30 AM
What constitutes a breakout season? One more basket a game? If only one miss had gone in every game last season he would have been a 15 & 7 guy with a 47% fg percentage. Jamaal Tinsley isn't in any danger of going to the bench with the crew of point guards currently backing him up. I feel like he'll never get a fair shake with some Pacer fans no matter what he does. He's certainly not one of the 5 worst in the league.

Whenever a Jamaal topic comes up you can count on somone bringing up the "sinupoutus" that caused him to miss 2 games in 6 seasons or jailtime for a guy who allegedly got into a barfight. Is this because he's Mark Jackson's replacement or because Runi couldn't ever beat him out?

Hicks
08-13-2007, 09:48 AM
And the early portion of the schedule (first 25 games or so) our offense will look horrible - primarily because there will be so much emphasis on defense.

If that's true..... *sigh* I might just take a vacation from here to keep my head from exploding over what I will read.

Hicks
08-13-2007, 09:49 AM
Tinsley's sinus problems kept him out a HELL of a lot more than 2 games in 6 seasons.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but then again if someone told me only 20,000 died in Hiroshima I'd still know to call BS without having the real # in front of me. Can anyone back me up on this?

Mourning
08-13-2007, 09:50 AM
Ok, lets see -
Will he be a better defender next season? Not likely
Will he make better decisions next season? Maybe, though not likely

On the other hand -
Will he be in good physical condition entering the season? Probably not
Will he shoot more due to the impotency of the other players? Probably


Im not a member of the Jamaal fanclub... to say the least :D, but I think these assumptions are not very fair IF only because the new coach will bring to bear the style of play we ASSUME he wants to play in. Further, I have a little but of confidence that Harter will bring atleast a little extra defensive intensity forward in Jamaal (couldn't be much worse anyway compared to last season).

Further, I also think it is unfair to assume he will not be fit when trainingcamp begins, especially given his history on that.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

avoidingtheclowns
08-13-2007, 10:00 AM
I think that Isiah believed in Tinsley too much...Rick had the right idea when he made JT earn the position. Rick's problem was that he inherently is not a good match with Tinsley because Tinsley probably wanted to wave him off every time down...just too much play calling. O'Brien will probably seem like a fair compromise for Tinsley. I'm excited about that because at this point he has negative trade value and if we can squeeze any production out of him, it would be a bonus.

this is what i tend to subscribe to. if tinsley is going to ever become the PG that we signed or a valuable trading asset, O'Brien seems to be the coach to do it. i think being given the ability to run the offense and push the ball (unlike the carlisle years) is going to help tinsley.


Back to my other point. One thing I know about O"Brien is the first time Tinsley doesn't put out 100% effort on defense - there will be major problems between the two. And if Tinsley doesn't consistantly put out 100% effort on defense, I wouldn't be surprised if Tinlsy is finding himself on the bench quite a bit.

tinsley is a poor one on one defender and he gambles too much. but our roster isn't loaded with defensive prowess (see murphy, dunleavy, harrison, diogu, etc.) but the beauty of o'brien/harter's defensive system is they try to perfect team defense and not necessarily individual defense. if tinsley can buy into the team defense concept enough i think he'll be fine. and i think he'll be more likely to buy into o'brien as he'll be allowed to run/push the offense if he does.

at least thats my hope.

OakMoses
08-13-2007, 10:08 AM
wasn't Tinsley our clutch guy last year? He hit the gw vs. SA, and I can't remember if he hit any others. DG didn't hit any gw shots but showed hope, JO couldn't shoot, and our other guys just didn't seem to care. I think Jt will have a breakout year. Yeah he's been in the league for what 7 years?, but he can still improve. I say top 12 pg in the league. Just look at his stats from this year. If he indeed does breakout, there will be another reason to cheer at Conseco

In case you didn't notice, Carlisle loved to diagram plays for the PG, it didn't matter if it was Tinsley, Armstrong, or MacLeod. He even loved to do it for AJ. In end game or quarter situations, you could bet one of two things was going to happen last year: let the PG dribble for a while and then throw it to JO, or let the PG dribble for a while, spread everybody out, and then see if they can make something happen. Neither play worked all that well. It was different when Jax and/or Reggie was around. I always thought that Carlisle was a good X and O guy, but then the end of the quarter or half would come and I'd have to start rethinking that.

I think of Tinsley as a guy like Joey Harrington or David Carr. They've got the talent, but something inside their head will keep them mired in mediocrity forever. They're not total busts like Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith, but they're not going to lead a Super Bowl team anytime soon either.

Dr. Goldfoot
08-13-2007, 10:11 AM
Tinsley's sinus problems kept him out a HELL of a lot more than 2 games in 6 seasons.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but then again if someone told me only 20,000 died in Hiroshima I'd still know to call BS without having the real # in front of me. Can anyone back me up on this?

Tinsley's injuries (www.tsn.ca/nba/teams/players/bio/?id=437&hubname=nba-pacers)

I can't find the 3rd game he missed to sinus problems.

Hicks
08-13-2007, 10:15 AM
You are correct that that page only says 2, but I remember the Star reporting things far differently. I recall a lot of "flu symptoms" as well.

Unclebuck
08-13-2007, 10:19 AM
Tinsley has missed a lot of games for flu like symptoms - a lot more than two. Although I remeember a few times where he was recovering from an injury of some sort and I heard that he probably was ready to play if it hadn't been for his flu like symptoms.


I don't know why, but for some reason I woke up this morning craving the NBA, the Pacers - and craving for the season to get started. For the most part I've been avoiding a lot of the Pacers discussion threads, but I'm starting to get the itch for the season.

Dr. Goldfoot
08-13-2007, 10:22 AM
I thought I remembered those too. He was listed a couple of times as being day-to-day w/ sinus problems but only missed two games with the problem. That list only goes back to Oct '04. He missed 2 games as a rookie and 9 in his second season but I dont remember why although I'm pretty sure the majority of those 9 came when his Grandma died. He then sat for 20+ games in Rick's first season and those were coach's decision I believe. I think the problem is people run with something and it becomes common knowledge even when it didn't happen.

But of course, he has a severe case of "sinuspoutus" because we don't like him.

Dr. Goldfoot
08-13-2007, 10:33 AM
No offense, but you guys also remember him missing alot of games due to sinus problems........

madison
08-13-2007, 10:37 AM
Could we start a new year just once without someone saying Tinsley is going to be healthy and have a break-out year? Tinsley is an average to below average PG. He is not top-tier and outside of a handful of games at the start of his first season, he's never impressed me. Take a look at where he stands in the league with TO's vs. assists. JOB's running game is only going to make that worse. I'd settle for JT staying healthy enough to play 60 games. That would be a very good year for him.

Speed
08-13-2007, 10:48 AM
i agree with what someone said earlier, He played 72 games, averaged 12.9 pts. 6.9 assists, 3.3 boards while playing 72 games, that is pretty good. You want him to shoot a much higher percentage 38.9 and fewer t/o 2.8, but I think those are solid numbers and you can win with those.

I think you'll see his t/o go up, but I think you'll see him back in the top of the league in assists too at around 8 to 9. I think the rest is what Tinsley is, really... expect an injury expect him to try to win games at the end and look good and terrible. I mean he does have the courage to take shots I suppose. I just hope Obie really does let him put pressure on the other team, but not become a game at Ruckers in the process. Very thin line to try to walk with Mel Mel.

jeffg-body
08-13-2007, 12:15 PM
I tend to agree with this as well. Now that the Tin man will have some freedom and allowed to be creative, it will spark something in him. It was pretty clear last year he seemed really frustrated with what he was having to do. He's got great skills and I think the attitude will improve with the new coaches and system. :D:dance:

Bball
08-13-2007, 12:33 PM
I believe Mark Boyle finally stated "Pick one" when describing why Tinsley was missing another game a while back.

And let's not forget, the Pacers have been very good about wrapping disciplinary actions as injuries and illnesses and the Indy Pravda paper just reported what the team tells them...

-Bball

LG33
08-13-2007, 02:28 PM
I believe Mark Boyle finally stated "Pick one" when describing why Tinsley was missing another game a while back.

And let's not forget, the Pacers have been very good about wrapping disciplinary actions as injuries and illnesses and the Indy Pravda paper just reported what the team tells them...

-Bball

So you're saying he's not actually sick or faking injuries but instead he's getting in trouble behind-the-scenes? :( This Tinsley hate has got to stop.

Bball
08-13-2007, 02:34 PM
So you're saying he's not actually sick or faking injuries but instead he's getting in trouble behind-the-scenes?

I'm saying it is 'all of the above'.

-Bball

Oneal07
08-13-2007, 02:40 PM
So you're saying he's not actually sick or faking injuries but instead he's getting in trouble behind-the-scenes? :( This Tinsley hate has got to stop.


That Sig is BRILLIANT lol!!!

Arcadian
08-13-2007, 03:37 PM
O'Brien is a better system for Tins. I think he does need someone who gets on him for defense and allows for freedom on offense. I don't know if break out is the correct word. We all know what his level of play is. I doubt that will change. What is in doubt is his consistancy and attitude. I believe both will improve with a different coach.

Roaming Gnome
08-13-2007, 05:39 PM
I pray to God every night that he matures and gets it....before we have to do another trade for pennies on the dollar.

Any trade involving Tinsley has us as a disadvantage, So...I'd rather he has a break-out season and grows up a bit, so we don't have to get bent over anymore then we already are with his deal.


He's 29 & beginning his 7th season, just how long you gonna wait?

Hey, I'm willing to wait as long as it takes before the franchise makes another trade that brings us pennies on the dollar. That is my personal view...I don't think he is killing this team to the extent that some of you believe. I know that there is better out there, but the Pacers are in no way, shape, form or fashion to bring someone BETTER in the fold without giving up something good that we have.


:sunshine: On a side note...I just can't wait for the season to begin. I'm just so tired of the negativity that this off-season is bringing. I so badly want to see this cast of players do something because I personally "want" to believe that the root cause our "on the court" problems were due to injuries and the wrong coaching staff.

If after a few games into the regular season this team looks as good as "chicken on a stick", at least the criticism is founded and warented.

ChicagoJ
08-13-2007, 06:22 PM
No offense, but you guys also remember him missing alot of games due to sinus problems........

I don't. But when he rushed back from the foot injury, was cleary only about 40%, and went back onto the injured list, that's when the "he's pouting" rumors exploded. :twocents:

ChicagoJ
08-13-2007, 06:26 PM
So you're saying he's not actually sick or faking injuries but instead he's getting in trouble behind-the-scenes? :( This Tinsley hate has got to stop.

Sadly, I'm sure there is also some truth to what Bball writes.

The real story with Tinsley is probably somewhere in the middle, but with hopes for a less oppressive coach, some of us are hoping for a renewed, happy Tinsley.

Whether we keep or trade the "happy" Tinsley doesn't really matter to me anymore, but trading the "unhappy" Tinsley for "nothing, but with a similar contract" doesn't seem to accomplish anything.

OnlyPacersLeft
08-13-2007, 07:35 PM
all this talk about Tinsley being 30 soon and what have you....well shoot isn't Kidd like 50 by now? damn.
I can't wait for him to run the show this year. He's the 2nd best player no this team!

MagicRat
08-13-2007, 08:01 PM
all this talk about Tinsley being 30 soon and what have you....well shoot isn't Kidd like 50 by now? damn.
I can't wait for him to run the show this year. He's the 2nd best player no this team!

Mark Jackson turned 30 during his first season with the Pacers, FWIW........

DgR
08-13-2007, 08:01 PM
I think in some cases the numbers are lying regarding Tins. If we had better shooters on the team last season (even slightly better), or an offensive system which wasn't built entirely around JO's post moves- Tins' A/T ratio would've been considerably better. It's a bit difficult to perform as a PG when the entire league knows you're just gonna pass it to JO in the post EVERY time cause that's the play Rick called... that predictability killed us all of last season- especially since Quis got injured.

The fact remains that JT can create for his teamates- something neither McCloud, Green, Brewer, Ollie or any other of those "creature" journeymen who came here ever could.
In my opinion the ability to create is the most important thing about a PG- and I am aware of JT's faults- painfully aware- but right now he's not such a bad choice for us either. If the roster turns out well balanced in terms of offensive threats- I think we will see an efficient Tins next year.

Cobol Sam
08-13-2007, 08:11 PM
I don't think its unreasonable to expect that this year JT actually does have a breakout kind of year. Its the simple fact that he won't be spending half his time looking at the bench for the play call.

madison
08-13-2007, 08:39 PM
Look, I'm not a JT 'hater', but come on! This guy can't stop ANYONE from driving the lane. He throws the ball away way too much, especially in the open court. He takes ill-advised 3's when there's still 15 seconds on the clock. This is not an above average player. He will not have a better season because the new Coach let's him run free. He's a playground baller. That's it. We still need a PG (and shooting guard). The Front Office still has a ton of work to-do. Unfortunately, it appears they won't start on this until we're 6 and 14. About that point, it will be painfully obvious that the Pacers are woefully short of talent. The drums will rumble. Maybe then, maybe then, we'll start the rebuilding process. Maybe.

Cobol Sam
08-13-2007, 08:41 PM
Look, I'm not a JT 'hater', but come on! This guy can't stop ANYONE from driving the lane. He throws the ball away way too much, especially in the open court. He takes ill-advised 3's when there's still 15 seconds on the clock. This is not an above average player. He will not have a better season because the new Coach let's him run free. He's a playground baller. That's it. We still need a PG (and shooting guard). The Front Office still has a ton of work to-do. Unfortunately, it appears they won't start on this until we're 6 and 14. About that point, it will be painfully obvious that the Pacers are woefully short of talent. The drums will rumble. Maybe then, maybe then, we'll start the rebuilding process. Maybe.

What do you think JT does well?

madison
08-13-2007, 08:48 PM
He's decent a laying the ball on the floor and penetrating to the rim. He can bring the ball up court under pressure. He's good at giving the ball to JO when he posts up with his back to the basket. Beyond that, I'm having trouble thinking of something.

tmhorn15
08-13-2007, 09:28 PM
I think in some cases the numbers are lying regarding Tins. If we had better shooters on the team last season (even slightly better), or an offensive system which wasn't built entirely around JO's post moves- Tins' A/T ratio would've been considerably better. It's a bit difficult to perform as a PG when the entire league knows you're just gonna pass it to JO in the post EVERY time cause that's the play Rick called... that predictability killed us all of last season- especially since Quis got injured.

The fact remains that JT can create for his teamates- something neither McCloud, Green, Brewer, Ollie or any other of those "creature" journeymen who came here ever could.
In my opinion the ability to create is the most important thing about a PG- and I am aware of JT's faults- painfully aware- but right now he's not such a bad choice for us either. If the roster turns out well balanced in terms of offensive threats- I think we will see an efficient Tins next year.

I think you are completely right. At times, Tinsley seemed like the only player that actually new the play. As a result, he'd have to put up a bad shot. Also, this caused his turnovers to be higher than expected. I was really impressed with the way that he still came to play every game in spite of this. As far as playing hurt, I seen him try to come back every time before he should have. Face it everybody, Tinsley is just everyone's scapegoat, period.

BlueNGold
08-13-2007, 10:59 PM
He's decent a laying the ball on the floor and penetrating to the rim. He can bring the ball up court under pressure. He's good at giving the ball to JO when he posts up with his back to the basket. Beyond that, I'm having trouble thinking of something.

Those are the things he does well consistently. His handle is really by far his greatest skill...maybe better than any PG in the NBA. It's really pretty amazing what he can do with the ball....putting pressure on the defense. At times, he also can make a nifty pass in transition ...but overall his passing game is overrated.

...so dribble penetration is where JT earns his paycheck. The problem is, that is only ONE of many skills and characteristics you want in a PG....and why it's clear he will never excel at PG. Yes, it's a crucial skill...just ask Saras...but it's only ONE. The majority of his other skills are clearly below average.

That's really why he is so frustrating to watch...IMO.

JayRedd
08-13-2007, 11:00 PM
What do you think JT does well?

He's pretty good with a dustpan.

OnlyPacersLeft
08-13-2007, 11:10 PM
Keep the hate coming! for those not ready to see this look away! Tinsley will be a star this yr! BOOK IT

Cherokee
08-14-2007, 12:02 AM
I too expect Tinsley to have a breakdown year. What? Oh, breakout year? Never mind.

Slick Pinkham
08-14-2007, 09:19 AM
wow

two weeks out on vacation and I come back and find this going on.

I should start a thread about John Edwards approaching breakout season.

avoidingtheclowns
08-14-2007, 09:43 AM
herpes doesn't count, tom.

Speed
08-14-2007, 09:52 AM
Keep the hate coming! for those not ready to see this look away! Tinsley will be a star this yr! BOOK IT


This mindset is exactly what gets Tins in trouble, they don't need him to be a star, they need him to be in the top 5 in assists in the league, have a decent shooting percentage, and be a team first guy, who is a leader by example.

bellisimo
08-14-2007, 11:02 AM
This mindset is exactly what gets Tins in trouble, they don't need him to be a star, they need him to be in the top 5 in assists in the league, have a decent shooting percentage, and be a team first guy, who is a leader by example.

QFT

that is where things go sour - personally I think JT would be considered a star or a very good PG if he can increase his assists....
its the whole schooling the other PG by scoring on 'em that gets me riled up! :mad:

NapTonius Monk
08-14-2007, 01:19 PM
Just as a practical matter, how many players have a breakout year in their 7th season when they are going to be 30 years old during the season.

Depends on how long it took for managment to move their ball-and-chain coach out of the way. Carlisle was Jamaal's biggest on the court issue, and if we trade him away for garbage, we'll find that out.

NapTonius Monk
08-14-2007, 01:22 PM
This mindset is exactly what gets Tins in trouble, they don't need him to be a star, they need him to be in the top 5 in assists in the league, have a decent shooting percentage, and be a team first guy, who is a leader by example.

How, exactly, is this the mindset that gets Jamaal in trouble? I've never gotten from Tinsley that he's more interested in being a star than he is trying to get the team to win. If anything, it's his competetive nature more than anything. He has a tendency to want to go back at players, and that's what I think tends to get him in trouble.