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View Full Version : Richard Jefferson and Kristic in town....



timid
08-11-2007, 04:15 PM
I don't know if it means anything but I did see Jefferson and Kristic downtown in the Circle Centre Mall........They were standing by the food court.....They had a few other people around them but that was it.....This was yesterday by the way.....

GrangerRanger
08-11-2007, 04:30 PM
Wow, you randomly spotted them?

Weird.

Unclebuck
08-11-2007, 04:40 PM
Thanks for the info.

What possible explanation could there be for them to be in town together

count55
08-11-2007, 04:42 PM
Hmmmm?

Take him at his word, or ask him if Elvis was there?

What to do...what to do.

Matney33
08-11-2007, 04:50 PM
Another poster on the star message board reported seeing him at the airport yesterday. Hmmm

timid
08-11-2007, 04:53 PM
Wow, you randomly spotted them?

Weird.

Yeah, I was just walking through the mall and saw them standing by the escalator......Nobody really seemed to be paying them much attention........Jefferson had on a red baseball cap and I think a white tee with some sandals....

DgR
08-11-2007, 05:14 PM
Yeah but Kwame was also seen in Indy a few weeks ago. Am I right on this one?

Unclebuck
08-11-2007, 05:22 PM
Yeah but Kwame was also seen in Indy a few weeks ago. Am I right on this one?

Yes, but soon after it was discovered he was here for a legitimate reason

DgR
08-11-2007, 05:25 PM
I dont like the NJ trade- am I alone on this?

timid
08-11-2007, 05:33 PM
I don't care anymore.........I just want them to do something, lol.......I have zero enthusiasm for the upcoming season....

DgR
08-11-2007, 05:44 PM
While it will be more exciting to start fresh by moving JO- I think we'll be dissapointed by the outcome of this trade

Arcadian
08-11-2007, 05:48 PM
I just hope Marcus Williams was in the restroom getting harassed by Peck.

Young
08-11-2007, 05:51 PM
This probably means that things are being discussed but I wouldn't put to much thought into this right now.

count55
08-11-2007, 05:52 PM
I dont like the NJ trade- am I alone on this?

It depends on what comes along with Krstic and Jefferson. Also, it depends on whether Jefferson can be consistently successful at the 2. And, it depends on what we can/will send out with JO.

I have considerably less faith in Bynum and Crittenton than many do. I would consider this a safer trade.

A Jefferson/Krstic/Collins deal for JO would be somewhat disappointing. Talentwise, it's not bad, but it doesn't really improve our cap position or longer term financial outlook.

If we could get Jefferson/Krstic without taking Collins, but taking a young guy like Marcus Williams along with a Nachbar, that wouldn't be bad.

Or if we could offload either Murphy or Dunleavy's contract in exchange for taking Collins, (though that then gets to be a pretty big trade).

I can understand people scratching their heads at this, but I tend to believe that Bird will only deal JO if he gets a deal that can help today. Bynum/Crit/Filler+picks won't help us on the court for two or three years, if ever. Jefferson & Krstic will be able to contribute immediately.

I'd have to believe that Bird would value a deal from NJ less than Odom & Bynum, but greater than the Bynum, etal package.

In any case, I still doubt JO gets moved this offseason. Almost all of the deals make us worse on the court in the short term, and that's contrary to Bird's drive to stay in the playoff hunt.

Rajah Brown
08-11-2007, 05:53 PM
DgR-

I'm right there with you. Unless we've got something brewing elsewhere
that entails moving one of Jefferson, Granger, or Dunleavy for
additional SG (legit, not a SF masquerading as a SG) or PG talent, I
don't like the NJ deal at all.

BlueNGold
08-11-2007, 05:55 PM
I dont like the NJ trade- am I alone on this?

No. There are definitely problems with it...mainly on defense. RJ's contract is a bit troublesome too due to it's end date.

However, I think we are better now and in the future if it's Krstic, RJ and Collins. Krstic and RJ fill important gaps on the team and will produce perhaps 10-12ppg more than JO on average. They do benefit from Kidd, but Krstic is still a natural deadeye who hits for a high fg% and who can take the big outside. RJ can create his own shot AND hit from 3. A rare talent indeed. Certainly shooting would no longer be a big issue.

As for JO's post-up game, there is some value to it. However, it's clearly not efficient and is not the answer. If we do this deal, we would likely use Ike to post up...or maybe Granger would spend more time in the paint...which I think would be a great idea. Harrison will probably get more minutes as well...although I would not get too excited about that.

All in all, JO's D is probably worth 5-8ppg...so considering everything I think we come out a bit ahead.

docpaul
08-11-2007, 05:56 PM
I dont like the NJ trade- am I alone on this?

Nope, I'm with you. As I remember, the trade the Pacers wanted for JO was Jefferson, Krstic, and Marcus Williams. I like Krstic and Williams as we need a solid 5 and a future PG. But Jefferson seems redundant to say the least. Fantastic overall player, but crowds a team already full of SFs who need PT. I seem to remember him being a pretty good shooter however at mid-long range... so maybe the idea would be to roll him into the SG spot...

Just doesn't seem like a move that would improve the team... seems more like a way to maximize value from getting rid of JO.

My personal dream for this year is to get the young guys as much PT as possible this year. Just flat out play Granger, Ike, Harrison, and Williams, and see what potential is actually there. Fish or cut bait with these guys and attempt to make some sense of what we really have on this roster. Given this, the trades that'd make the most sense from my perspective would involve SGs and PGs, and perhaps young centers (like Bynum).

Arcadian
08-11-2007, 06:15 PM
I'm not excited about getting Jefferson. I don't want a small forward as the princible piece we are getting in exchange for JO. I'd make an exception for James. I'm hoping Jefferson and Kristic are in Indy to watch The US Women's Amateur golf tournament.

Trader Joe
08-11-2007, 06:18 PM
Thats odd. Kwame was here for the doctor. For Krstic and Jefferson to BOTH be here that to me says something. Something may be up.

Hicks
08-11-2007, 06:28 PM
Yes, it's the fact that not only are they here, but both at the same time, that's interesting. I can't see a different reason for them to be here, but you never know I guess.

LTD
08-11-2007, 06:30 PM
Not bashing anyone but I have a serious question. How many times has a player been spotted in a town right before the trade actually happens without ANY news source saying that the deal is close to being done?


Basically what i'm saying is that there are so many leaks that I just find it hard to believe that the deal is pretty much done and those two guys are in town taking physicals or something, meanwhile there isn't one peep from any reputable sports source that the deal is pretty much done.


I won't even get into the fact that I'm not too enamored by the NJ deal.

DgR
08-11-2007, 06:31 PM
Nope, I'm with you. As I remember, the trade the Pacers wanted for JO was Jefferson, Krstic, and Marcus Williams. I like Krstic and Williams as we need a solid 5 and a future PG. But Jefferson seems redundant to say the least. Fantastic overall player, but crowds a team already full of SFs who need PT. I seem to remember him being a pretty good shooter however at mid-long range... so maybe the idea would be to roll him into the SG spot...

Just doesn't seem like a move that would improve the team... seems more like a way to maximize value from getting rid of JO.
My personal dream for this year is to get the young guys as much PT as possible this year. Just flat out play Granger, Ike, Harrison, and Williams, and see what potential is actually there. Fish or cut bait with these guys and attempt to make some sense of what we really have on this roster. Given this, the trades that'd make the most sense from my perspective would involve SGs and PGs, and perhaps young centers (like Bynum).

Exactly. We won't make the team any better by doing the trade- not really.

My biggest concern about this deal is that I dont think we'll get a guy to build around. Right now JO is our Franchise player- whose gonna replace him? Krstic? Is he our future FP? Sure he has a good shooting touch- but right now he's the 3rd/4th option on his team- and he's 24. That's not old- but he's not that young either. RJ is a safe bet- we know what he can do- but I wouldn't bet our future on either one of them.

If we trade JO- I want that trade to bring in a guy who has the potential to become a franchise player. After this trade is made we'll have a bunch of good players but no real Star. RJ will be our best player and that says something....:cry:

Hicks
08-11-2007, 06:36 PM
I think we become, now don't misunderstand, a little more like the 90's teams only in terms of not having one true "guy" that did the vast majority of "it" for us. Reggie was the big name, but he had a lot of help with Jackson, Rose/Mullin/McKey, Davis, Smits, etc.

Jefferson is only 6'7" and 230lbs. Considering that and the fact that he's (last I heard) a pretty good defender on the wing, I think he could easily be a SG here. Much more than Mike at any rate. But regardless of Dunleavy a 6'7 230 wing defender can be a SG no problem IMO.

If you're looking at a starting 5 of Tinsley, Jefferson, Granger, Murphy, and Krstic, no one guy especially pops out (though Jefferson would be first, and probably Granger or Tinsley second), they can all contribute pretty well IMO (well, unless Murphy really is only as good as he was last half season).

If NJ threw in either Williams or more likely a 1st rounder (maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe 2), I can't say I'd be terribly upset by this.

Hicks
08-11-2007, 06:39 PM
Not bashing anyone but I have a serious question. How many times has a player been spotted in a town right before the trade actually happens without ANY news source saying that the deal is close to being done?


Basically what i'm saying is that there are so many leaks that I just find it hard to believe that the deal is pretty much done and those two guys are in town taking physicals or something, meanwhile there isn't one peep from any reputable sports source that the deal is pretty much done.


I won't even get into the fact that I'm not too enamored by the NJ deal.

Well there's a lot of truth to that, but also the real trades never seem to get leaked involving us, they just happen. No one knew the GS trade was coming until it was done. That does not prove a thing, but it's some food for thought.

Evan_The_Dude
08-11-2007, 06:41 PM
My brother who works for "Clear", the company that expedites business travelers through airport security, did say he saw a few basketball players coming off an inbound flight to Indy. However he's not a basketball fan and could not name them, but he did say a few as in THREE. He said one of his co-workers named them, but he couldn't remember the names. When I talk to him later on I'll say the names to him and see if they ring a bell. I didn't think anything of it when he mentioned it because he sees players all the time, but usually (with the exception of Ron Artest) they all have been Pacers or Colts players.

Trader Joe
08-11-2007, 06:41 PM
I think we become, now don't misunderstand, a little more like the 90's teams only in terms of not having one true "guy" that did the vast majority of "it" for us. Reggie was the big name, but he had a lot of help with Jackson, Rose/Mullin/McKey, Davis, Smits, etc.

Jefferson is only 6'7" and 230lbs. Considering that and the fact that he's (last I heard) a pretty good defender on the wing, I think he could easily be a SG here. Much more than Mike at any rate. But regardless of Dunleavy a 6'7 230 wing defender can be a SG no problem IMO.

If you're looking at a starting 5 of Tinsley, Jefferson, Granger, Murphy, and Krstic, no one guy especially pops out (though Jefferson would be first, and probably Granger or Tinsley second), they can all contribute pretty well IMO (well, unless Murphy really is only as good as he was last half season).

If NJ threw in either Williams or more likely a 1st rounder (maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe 2), I can't say I'd be terribly upset by this.

Diogu has to start next to Krstic. Murphy and him couldn't play D next to one another. Thats my only real worry about this deal. Our interior defense would be soft as charmin. However we would be ridiculously deep and have the assets to add a true superstar to Krstic and Jefferson if we wanted to.

DgR
08-11-2007, 06:49 PM
If we do this trade we'll have a huge logjam at SF/SG:

SG: Jefferson SF: Granger
Quis Dun
Rush Shawne

That becomes a problem we'll have to fix this summer!:confused::confused::confused:

BlueNGold
08-11-2007, 06:52 PM
Not bashing anyone but I have a serious question. How many times has a player been spotted in a town right before the trade actually happens without ANY news source saying that the deal is close to being done?


Basically what i'm saying is that there are so many leaks that I just find it hard to believe that the deal is pretty much done and those two guys are in town taking physicals or something, meanwhile there isn't one peep from any reputable sports source that the deal is pretty much done.


Yes, usually it seems like the news breaks first....but that might be more with respect to in-season trades when players are busier...and the FO does not want to disrupt the team.

Since this is the summer, I could see the players being notified and given an opportunity to visit the area and talk with FO personnel. I find it interesting VC just yesterday was quoted that he approves of a JO deal. This lends at least a hair of credibility to this latest report about them being in Indy.

In any event, I refuse to believe they came unless someone can produce at least a short cell phone video. It all could be more negotiating ploys...or may be nothing at all.

rexnom
08-11-2007, 07:08 PM
Wasn't the problem with the NJ trade that we couldn't swing RJ for someone else?

JB's Breakout Year
08-11-2007, 07:08 PM
Don't know why Krstic would be here, but there's a reason for RJ.

The Star said earlier this week that RJ, Luke Walton, and some other former Arizona Wildcats were invited to their former teammate Jason Gardner's wedding this weekend. I think there was even an open reception at a club maybe in the Castleton area....

Kegboy
08-11-2007, 07:12 PM
I just hope Marcus Williams was in the restroom getting harassed by Peck.

QFT

Unclebuck
08-11-2007, 07:13 PM
I want this trade to happen as long as Krstic's knee is OK.

I know many question how effective Jefferson will be without Kidd or to a lesser extent without Carter to take all the pressure off of him. But I think Jefferson will really excel as the number 1 option. he and Granger at the 2 and 3 is nice, very nice - or throw Dunleavy in there and move Granger to the pf - I like it

Arcadian
08-11-2007, 07:19 PM
It is as if we have been searching for that small forward ever since Eddie Gill left. I will be really disappointed if we don't get a legit big man or pg for JO.

Young
08-11-2007, 07:20 PM
Here are some thoughts on the possible New Jersey trade.

- I want Jefferson and Krstic, nothing less for Jermaine. Perferably a 1rst round draft pick added in there, they can keep Marcus and Sean Williams as far as i'm concerned.
- We need to move Mike Dunleavy. I would love to have RJ, but Dunleavy would have to be moved for this to make any sense.
- I'd be worried about our defense, big time. Atleast the old Pacers team had Dale Davis, we would have Murphy and Krstic and that wouldn't be pretty at all.

The big thing though would be moving Mike Dunleavy.

Would the Nets take him? How high does Bird value him? Would Jermaine and Dunleavy for Jefferson, Krstic, Collins, Robinson, cash, and maybe a future pick be enough for Bird and would the Nets do that? IDK.

Hicks
08-11-2007, 07:20 PM
Wasn't the problem with the NJ trade that we couldn't swing RJ for someone else?

Not at all. That was purely what fans wanted, as I recall.

Kegboy
08-11-2007, 07:22 PM
If we do this trade we'll have a huge logjam at SF/SG:

SG: Jefferson SF: Granger
Quis Dun
Rush Shawne

That becomes a problem we'll have to fix this summer!:confused::confused::confused:

Well, not that I necessarily agree with it, but TPTB have made a lot of noise about playing Quis at the 1 and Shawne at the 4.

If we can get Williams, I'd prefer this to Odom/Bynum. If not, I still vastly prefer it to Bynum/crap.

JB's Breakout Year
08-11-2007, 07:24 PM
Here are some thoughts on the possible New Jersey trade.

- I want Jefferson and Krstic, nothing less for Jermaine. Perferably a 1rst round draft pick added in there, they can keep Marcus and Sean Williams as far as i'm concerned.
- We need to move Mike Dunleavy. I would love to have RJ, but Dunleavy would have to be moved for this to make any sense.
- I'd be worried about our defense, big time. Atleast the old Pacers team had Dale Davis, we would have Murphy and Krstic and that wouldn't be pretty at all.

The big thing though would be moving Mike Dunleavy.

Would the Nets take him? How high does Bird value him? Would Jermaine and Dunleavy for Jefferson, Krstic, Collins, Robinson, cash, and maybe a future pick be enough for Bird and would the Nets do that? IDK.
If we did a deal for RJ and Krstic, I'd like to see Dunleavy moved, too. I'm afraid Bird likes him too much to do this, but salary-wise, it doesn't work to have both counting against the cap. If we could move him for Etan Thomas or some other big banger and get into a better salary situation, that would be the move I'd like to see.

aero
08-11-2007, 07:25 PM
Don't know why Krstic would be here, but there's a reason for RJ.

The Star said earlier this week that RJ, Luke Walton, and some other former Arizona Wildcats were invited to their former teammate Jason Gardner's wedding this weekend. I think there was even an open reception at a club maybe in the Castleton area....

theres your answer right there folks.

Hicks
08-11-2007, 07:25 PM
theres your answer right there folks.

That answers why Krstic is here?

Arcadian
08-11-2007, 07:26 PM
The reason Dunleavy won't be moved is his contract.

Either he is overpaid or according to others paid just the right amount which is the hardest kind of contract to move.

Unclebuck
08-11-2007, 08:00 PM
Don't know why Krstic would be here, but there's a reason for RJ.

The Star said earlier this week that RJ, Luke Walton, and some other former Arizona Wildcats were invited to their former teammate Jason Gardner's wedding this weekend. I think there was even an open reception at a club maybe in the Castleton area....

You have to ruin all the fun don't you

Trader Joe
08-11-2007, 08:02 PM
Maybe we asked the Nets to send RJ and Krstic on an all expenses paid weekend here? Then when it started to come out in the news the Lakers would panic and offer Odom and Bynum.

bellisimo
08-11-2007, 08:07 PM
Don't know why Krstic would be here, but there's a reason for RJ.

The Star said earlier this week that RJ, Luke Walton, and some other former Arizona Wildcats were invited to their former teammate Jason Gardner's wedding this weekend. I think there was even an open reception at a club maybe in the Castleton area....


talk about a cover up story...who in their right minds from Arizona Wildcats would have a wedding in Castleton area? ;):-p

BlueNGold
08-11-2007, 08:18 PM
That answers why Krstic is here?

Probably another 'zona player or Walton was mistaken for Krstic.

FrenchConnection
08-11-2007, 08:21 PM
talk about a cover up story...who in their right minds from Arizona Wildcats would have a wedding in Castleton area? ;):-p

Jason Gardner, although he played at Arizona, is from Indianapolis. Played at North Central High School.

Alpolloloco
08-11-2007, 08:23 PM
Don't know why Krstic would be here, but there's a reason for RJ.

The Star said earlier this week that RJ, Luke Walton, and some other former Arizona Wildcats were invited to their former teammate Jason Gardner's wedding this weekend. I think there was even an open reception at a club maybe in the Castleton area....

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007708090474

Sadly you are true, I was hoping a major trade was going on :****ed:

LG33
08-11-2007, 08:54 PM
Probably another 'zona player or Walton was mistaken for Krstic.

Maybe it was actually Steve Perry from Journey? Or maybe Jefferson and Krstic are tight. I dunno, though, because both seem unlikely.

jeffg-body
08-11-2007, 09:32 PM
This might be a good deal, only if there is an added pick(s) or one of the Williams and I am leaning toward the big instead of PG. It is unusual if there are taking a look at them b/c TPTB seem to never let a possible trade leak. It could be a little pressure toward LA too. I do know someone who works for a temporary staffing agency who hired him to work a big wedding catering event over the weekend and he making like 25$ an hour and has to wear a tux:dance::dance::dance:.

Erik
08-11-2007, 09:55 PM
Maybe it was actually Steve Perry from Journey? Or maybe Jefferson and Krstic are tight. I dunno, though, because both seem unlikely.
that makes the most sense. how long has Krstic lived in the U.S.? his teammates are probably his closest friends right now.

Kegboy
08-11-2007, 10:05 PM
My god, what are all these NBA players doing hanging out here. Don't they know this is a lame city that could never get free agents even if we tried.

:rolleyes:

Trader Joe
08-11-2007, 10:10 PM
Maybe it was actually Steve Perry from Journey? Or maybe Jefferson and Krstic are tight. I dunno, though, because both seem unlikely.

Meh I could see Krstic tagging along for the party.

avoidingtheclowns
08-11-2007, 10:24 PM
Diogu has to start next to Krstic. Murphy and him couldn't play D next to one another. Thats my only real worry about this deal. Our interior defense would be soft as charmin. However we would be ridiculously deep and have the assets to add a true superstar to Krstic and Jefferson if we wanted to.

because diogu's defense is quite a bit better, eh?

rexnom
08-11-2007, 10:33 PM
Seriously though, what are the odds...the two guys at the center of a proposed deal the Pacers are considering, here on completely unrelated business...it's ridiculous...

LG33
08-11-2007, 10:43 PM
Seriously though, what are the odds...the two guys at the center of a proposed deal the Pacers are considering, here on completely unrelated business...it's ridiculous...

I don't like it, not one bit.

Trader Joe
08-11-2007, 10:44 PM
because diogu's defense is quite a bit better, eh?
Quite a bit better than Murphy's? Yeah, he at least won't get pushed around all the time. He is still not that great defensively.

blanket
08-11-2007, 10:57 PM
Wasn't the problem with the NJ trade that we couldn't swing RJ for someone else?
Not at all. That was purely what fans wanted, as I recall.

Actually...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/marty_burns/08/02/garnett.fallout/index.html


The Nets are an interesting case as well. They talked to the Pacers about a deal for O'Neal involving Richard Jefferson before the draft, but according to one source, Indiana was willing to do the deal only if it could move the small forward to a third team.

Anthem
08-11-2007, 10:59 PM
Count me as somebody who doesn't like the proposed NJ deal unless we're getting some pretty serious filler.

Of course, it's better than JO for Bynum+JCSuperstar, but I don't think that deal's very good either.

Trader Joe
08-11-2007, 11:01 PM
Timid, how sure are you it was Nenad? Because a Nets fan I know says Krsitc is rehabbing in Serbia.

LG33
08-11-2007, 11:09 PM
Count me as somebody who doesn't like the proposed NJ deal unless we're getting some pretty serious filler.

Of course, it's better than JO for Bynum+JCSuperstar, but I don't think that deal's very good either.

I actually like the filler of Kwame Brown, better. Dude might be worth something, whereas Jason Collins, well, he's not even the best Collins in the league.


Timid, how sure are you it was Nenad? Because a Nets fan I know says Krsitc is rehabbing in Serbia.

So the Steve Perry rumor has wheels then?

rexnom
08-11-2007, 11:09 PM
Count me as somebody who doesn't like the proposed NJ deal unless we're getting some pretty serious filler.

Of course, it's better than JO for Bynum+JCSuperstar, but I don't think that deal's very good either.
I want Marcus Williams. If we get Marcus Williams then it's a fair deal/slightly in our favor. We can even give them Shawne Williams as incentive. That would make Kegboy and I FINALLY get over 2006...

rexnom
08-11-2007, 11:11 PM
So the Steve Perry rumor has wheels then?
All I know is that Journey is definitely playing at my wedding and if I knew Richard Jefferson, I'd use him to convince them to come...

LG33
08-11-2007, 11:17 PM
I want Marcus Williams. If we get Marcus Williams then it's a fair deal/slightly in our favor. We can even give them Shawne Williams as incentive. That would make Kegboy and I FINALLY get over 2006...

No. Although I've been a Pacers fan Faithfully for 13 years, I think that trade would see me and the organization go Separate Ways. I'll accept lil' Williams with Open Arms, but Only The Young should remain on our team. Don't Stop Believin' in Shawne Williams. He can shoot, he can dribble, he can defend. He can do it Any Way You Want It. He is not a throw-in.

Shade
08-11-2007, 11:26 PM
If this is in any way linked to a possible trade, then the trade is already completed. GMs typically don't tell players they're traded until the deed is done.

I think (hope) it's just a really odd coincidence. Maybe they're in town for the fair. :shrug:

Eindar
08-11-2007, 11:26 PM
All I know is that Journey is definitely playing at my wedding and if I knew Richard Jefferson, I'd use him to convince them to come...


I'm thinking $500 and an open bar/buffet would probably be just as much influence as RJ :)

GrangerRanger
08-11-2007, 11:31 PM
Plus what, he's 21 or 20? Also, the Nets already have a Sean Williams, that would be two confusing to watch.

Kegboy
08-11-2007, 11:31 PM
I want Marcus Williams. If we get Marcus Williams then it's a fair deal/slightly in our favor. We can even give them Shawne Williams as incentive. That would make Kegboy and I FINALLY get over 2006...

You said it. Marcus is even welcome to steal my laptop. (It's a piece of crap.)

rexnom
08-11-2007, 11:56 PM
You said it. Marcus is even welcome to steal my laptop. (It's a piece of crap.)
I dunno...I have a tablet...sigh...I guess for a legit PG prospect, I'd sacrifice my laptop...I'd probably have to take a leave of absence from PD though...

Eindar
08-12-2007, 12:05 AM
I dunno...I have a tablet...sigh...I guess for a legit PG prospect, I'd sacrifice my laptop...I'd probably have to take a leave of absence from PD though...

Aren't Marcus Williams and Jamaal Tinsley basically the same player? I understand that Williams has potential, but aren't they both below average shooters with good court vision?

rexnom
08-12-2007, 12:08 AM
Aren't Marcus Williams and Jamaal Tinsley basically the same player? I understand that Williams has potential, but aren't they both below average shooters with good court vision?
Ok...we don't wanna hear from you and your silly logic...all we want is a PG from the 2006 draft...is that too much to ask? :cry:

DgR
08-12-2007, 01:42 AM
I still think Bird wants to see this team under JOB without making drastic changes to it- unless, of course, he is offered a deal he cant refuse.

LG33
08-12-2007, 01:50 AM
I still think Bird wants to see this team under JOB without making drastic changes to it- unless, of course, he is offered a deal he cant refuse.

Unfortunately, if there's anyone who can make an offer they can't refuse, it's a guy from New Jersey...

tdubb03
08-12-2007, 04:07 AM
If we move JO for a RJeff/Krstic package w/o moving RJeff to a predetermined 3rd team then our front office really is as stupid as they're made out. How's that do anything to improve our situation at all? They could give us 3 1st's with it and I still wouldn't be satisfied. Ok it'd help, but still.

skyfire
08-12-2007, 04:30 AM
Count me as somebody who doesn't like the proposed NJ deal unless we're getting some pretty serious filler.

Of course, it's better than JO for Bynum+JCSuperstar, but I don't think that deal's very good either.

I second that motion. I saw enough of RJ clanking international 3pters to know that he looks significantly better playing next to Kidd. Krstic is ok, but unless Ike really improves defensively I cant see any front court combination where we aren't one of the softest teams in the NBA inside.

Major Cold
08-12-2007, 07:23 AM
The invitation list includes some of Gardner's college teammates: Gilbert Arenas, now of the Washington Wizards, Richard Jefferson of the New Jersey Nets, Channing Frye of the Portland Trailblazers and Luke Walton of the Los Angeles Lakers, according to the club.


Maybe Arenas is in the mix:rolleyes:

I would trade our Starting 5 plus for those four players. Throw in a pick or Diogu and we I could see it happen. Who am I kidding, no one wants 3 of our starting 5.

DisplacedKnick
08-12-2007, 08:11 AM
Timid, how sure are you it was Nenad? Because a Nets fan I know says Krsitc is rehabbing in Serbia.

Might want to ask him if he has any firm source on that - most NBA teams want players to rehab under the supervision of their training staff.

BBALL56HACKER
08-12-2007, 08:43 AM
This trade with N.J. stinks. After we pick up Jefferson we will be in cap hell. How do you ever expect to sign back Kristic the year after. The only deal that makes any since at all would be with L.A. with J.O. & Murphy for Oden,Brown & Bynum (plus filler) It would give us young players plus cap space for the next 2 years to sign our young players who have shown promise. It is that deal or none with L.A. (as for as I am concerned).

Doddage
08-12-2007, 08:46 AM
The only deal that makes any since at all would be with L.A. with J.O. & Murphy for Oden,Brown & Bynum (plus filler)
I wish.

BlueNGold
08-12-2007, 09:48 AM
This trade with N.J. stinks. After we pick up Jefferson we will be in cap hell. How do you ever expect to sign back Kristic the year after. The only deal that makes any since at all would be with L.A. with J.O. & Murphy for Oden,Brown & Bynum (plus filler) It would give us young players plus cap space for the next 2 years to sign our young players who have shown promise. It is that deal or none with L.A. (as for as I am concerned).

I would prefer a Murphy/Dunleavy for Bynum/Odom deal...with Kobe as a throw in. :D

.....back to reality

It has become clear that a direct trade with LA is unlikely.

There are several problems with it.

1) Bynum and spare parts are clearly not enough for JO from the Pacer perspective. Bynum has a very long way to go just to simply be as good as JO. Don't confuse his size with his ability. Eventually he might get there, but while he's trying to be as good as JO, Kobe's clock is ticking...and in the meantime Bynum might turn into Brendan Haywood. The franchise is not in a position any longer to take this risk.

2) If LA deals Odom and Bynum for JO, they do get better but not dramatically. Therefore, they will not be competing in the west with that move. At the same time, they lose Bynum's potential. They also might find that Kobe wants to walk anyway because this move would not make them nearly good enough.

3) There is also the financial side. JO's salary is too high for his value....especially for a guy who works part-time. I'm not sure if any other team is paying out that much to two players. ...and it can't help their ability to sign free agents and the like.

Considering everything, it would be a better idea to deal Bynum for a lesser star. Rather than go for the big fish, try to make smaller moves. Maybe someone like Marcus Camby ...but Kobe might not like that. It seems LA wants something they cannot realistically have...

Anthem
08-12-2007, 10:17 AM
It seems LA wants something they cannot realistically have...
Shocker.

Major Cold
08-12-2007, 10:26 AM
Don't tell Tim Hardaway but Nenad could be RJ's date. Wasn't there a rumor that RJ is gay?

Unclebuck
08-12-2007, 10:43 AM
Don't tell Tim Hardaway but Nenad could be RJ's date. Wasn't there a rumor that RJ is gay?

Oh brother

bellisimo
08-12-2007, 11:31 AM
Or brother

nah they aren't related ;)

avoidingtheclowns
08-12-2007, 12:11 PM
Quite a bit better than Murphy's? Yeah, he at least won't get pushed around all the time. He is still not that great defensively.

well i guess its what you define as better. he fouls like david harrison so i'm not sure he'd be able to stay out on the floor to defend.

Wu-Gambino
08-12-2007, 12:48 PM
Don't tell Tim Hardaway but Nenad could be RJ's date. Wasn't there a rumor that RJ is gay?
If that's true, can I have her?

http://i.cnn.net/si/pr/subs/swimsuit/images/05_athletes_02.jpg

JayRedd
08-12-2007, 12:55 PM
Best. Tattoo. Ever.

Naptown_Seth
08-12-2007, 01:09 PM
I just hope they weren't doing some after-reception party on Geist. That really would put a black mark on Indy in the eyes of free agents.

"Enjoy everyone, but please for your own health, stay on the boat."

"Never get outta the boat. Absolutely GD right. Unless you were going all the way. Artest got off the boat. He split from the whole f'n program."



*1 - for the non-Indy people, Geist resevoir currently has a toxic algae problem. Geist is an affluent lake area suburb of Indy.

*2 - for the non-film people, for chrissake rent Apocolypse Now already and join the rest of society

LG33
08-12-2007, 01:12 PM
If you've never heard RJ speak, I entreat you to.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8HtVgoRiuA
The first time I heard his voice, I was amazed. It actually gets higher. (It may be the source of that "RJ is gay" rumor as well)


P.S. Did I use "entreat" correctly just now?

Naptown_Seth
08-12-2007, 01:15 PM
Best. Tattoo. Ever.
You know that his "R" has a basketball in the middle. Take off the leg of the "R" and you have...


(I am not a fan of the Nets deal and happily believe that this sighting is all about the wedding at that's it...whew, that was close)

NapTonius Monk
08-12-2007, 01:15 PM
I just hope Marcus Williams was in the restroom getting harassed by Peck.

:rolleyes: :laugh:

By the way LG33...I like the RUSH HOUR monicker!!!!!!!

OnlyPacersLeft
08-12-2007, 01:18 PM
bah and so was kwame brown earlier this summer...I'm sure TPTB had them in 2 talk about them coming to the team...(isn't that illegal or tampering or something?)
I still don't see that as a likely trade...Trade JO to a team in our own conf. without the nets giving up carter or kidd! your talking 3 guys that make the all star game year in and year out for unproven krstic and Jefferson!? wow that trade is more lopsided then the LA laker one.

count55
08-12-2007, 01:19 PM
If you've never heard RJ speak, I entreat you to.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=H8HtVgoRiuA
The first time I heard his voice, I was amazed. It actually gets higher. (It may be the source of that "RJ is gay" rumor as well)


P.S. Did I use "entreat" correctly just now?

Well, if you were looking to "implore" people, yes, you did.

NapTonius Monk
08-12-2007, 01:23 PM
No. Although I've been a Pacers fan Faithfully for 13 years, I think that trade would see me and the organization go Separate Ways. I'll accept lil' Williams with Open Arms, but Only The Young should remain on our team. Don't Stop Believin' in Shawne Williams. He can shoot, he can dribble, he can defend. He can do it Any Way You Want It. He is not a throw-in.

I agree 100%. I cringe whenever I hear anyone suggest throwing him in as filler, because he is one player I'm certain we would regret moving.

NapTonius Monk
08-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Wasn't the problem with the NJ trade that we couldn't swing RJ for someone else?

I thought the issue was the Pacers wanting Marcus Williams, and not wanting Collins. I don't see what's so great about this trade. It doesn't really do that much for us. Jefferson brings talent at a stocked position, so then it would boil down to Krstic v. JO. Especially if they're being stingy over Marcus Williams.

BlueNGold
08-12-2007, 01:44 PM
I agree 100%. I cringe whenever I hear anyone suggest throwing him in as filler, because he is one player I'm certain we would regret moving.

Williams needs to get stronger and get more experience. Not sure what his ceiling is, but he's already a good rotation guy.

However, Pacer fans need to realize that we are picking some of our future "stars" late in the first round. Yes, Granger is a very good player. Williams should be as well. Ike might even turn out to be a solid player. But these guys are not likely to be franchise level players. I suspect their ceiling is Richard Jefferson level or so....lower than Jermaine, Jason Kidd and Vince Carter.

JayRedd
08-12-2007, 01:46 PM
You know that his "R" has a basketball in the middle. Take off the leg of the "R" and you have...

Yeah.

It works on so many levels. You can stare at it for hours and just keep finding more and more meaning...Similar to a Dali painting, I think it's fair to say.

RJ's deep.

rexnom
08-12-2007, 09:24 PM
Best. Tattoo. Ever.
Wait, wait. You were looking at the tattoo?

ToTheAtom
08-12-2007, 10:34 PM
Wait, wait. You were looking at the tattoo?

Post of the Year

BlueNGold
08-12-2007, 11:09 PM
Wait, wait. You were looking at the tattoo?

In all honesty, I hardly even saw RJ in the picture...let alone the tattoo.

JayRedd
08-12-2007, 11:12 PM
<------ FTL

LG33
08-12-2007, 11:20 PM
<------ FTL

Get used to it buddy. You're going down come next year. :)

Speed
08-13-2007, 07:27 AM
Best line was before Marcus Williams was even drafted was that he led the rookies in steals...

BoomBaby33
08-13-2007, 08:18 AM
Thats odd. Kwame was here for the doctor. For Krstic and Jefferson to BOTH be here that to me says something. Something may be up.

I think RJ and Krstic may be on the state fair circuit, working with the little short two headed people and the completely tatoo covered guy and the 7'5" amazon woman.

ChicagoJ
08-13-2007, 06:01 PM
Unfortunately, if there's anyone who can make an offer they can't refuse, it's a guy from New Jersey...

:laugh:

Yeah, I'm way behind, but that's great stuff right there.

ChicagoJ
08-13-2007, 06:14 PM
Williams needs to get stronger and get more experience. Not sure what his ceiling is, but he's already a good rotation guy.

He is? I sure haven't seen that yet.

Can we wait until he actually spends an extended period of time in the rotation before saying that?

LG33
08-13-2007, 06:19 PM
He is? I sure haven't seen that yet.

Can we wait until he actually spends an extended period of time in the rotation before saying that?

As a friend of many Nets fans, even they aren't that excited. They think he was a steal at that draft spot, but not soon to be Kidd's replacement.

ChicagoJ
08-13-2007, 06:27 PM
I was talking about Shawne.

Cobol Sam
08-13-2007, 08:25 PM
I don't feel a lot of passion for this deal. I want to keep Jermaine on the team because I don't think we are going to get value for him. If he opts out next year then we have cap room. If he doesn't, oh darn, we have a 6 (probably 7 by then) time allstar playing in the low post for us.

HOOPFANATIC
08-13-2007, 08:45 PM
What is the intel on Krstic and Jefferson? Is Krstic not doing well after his injury because at a solid 7-0 240 and only 24, he seems pretty nice for a 16/7 guy on a playoff team. And as far as I knew Jefferson was a decent defender, excellent scorer and a guy with a pair of stones, or in other words a nice passion for the game, plus he might be looking to cement his all star status. I'm not saying it's the best trade ,but with all the young talent we have we are going no where fast. No one is heralding Atlanta and they have far more young potential than we do.

LG33
08-13-2007, 08:49 PM
I was talking about Shawne.

Oh...

Well, as a friend of many Pacers fans, even they aren't that excited. They think he was a steal at that draft spot, but not soon to be Granger's replacement.

Naptown_Seth
08-14-2007, 01:06 PM
Oh...

Well, as a friend of many Pacers fans, even they aren't that excited. They think he was a steal at that draft spot, but not soon to be Granger's replacement.
Don't be so sure on that last part.
(btw, don't you have an all Jefferson Airplane reference post to make somewhere...and no cheating, you can't say that Indy "Built this city on bass-ket-ball, that's Starship and it ain't the same)

Of course it's not like they were drafted at different spots in the first place. Yes Danny "fell", but ultimately he was taken where he was taken, the reasons for letting him go by might be legit.

I like Danny and think he will take another nice step this year. The game has not clicked for him yet, but it's going to. For a guy that is often still confused on the floor he's already playing well.

Shawne was not impressive in summer ball and is younger than Danny, so don't look for him to push Granger out any time soon. But OTOH he's got a nice shot, did show good instincts last year and is young enough that JOB and Harter might have a huge impact on where his game ends up by age 23-24.


Jay - I would agree except that Shawne was a rotation guy of about 15-20 minutes a game for the final 2 months. Pretty consistant PT to end the year.

ChicagoJ
08-14-2007, 01:25 PM
If by "2 months" you mean 11 of the last 12 games, after the complete tailspin, then okay.

Sorry, but I consider everything after about March 15 to be garbage time.

LG33
08-14-2007, 01:44 PM
Don't be so sure on that last part.
(btw, don't you have an all Jefferson Airplane reference post to make somewhere...and no cheating, you can't say that Indy "Built this city on bass-ket-ball, that's Starship and it ain't the same)


One trade makes you larger (LA), and one trade makes you small (NJ),
But the ones Chicago gives us, don't do anything at all,
Go ask Travis, when he's six feet tall...


When the team is found, to beeeee crap,
and all the fans, begin toooooo snap
Don't we want somebody up front?
Don't we need somebody up front?
Wouldn't we love somebody up front?
Bird better find somebody up front!


Happy? :)

Tom White
08-14-2007, 01:55 PM
One trade makes you larger (LA), and one trade makes you small (NJ),
But the ones Chicago gives us, don't do anything at all,
Go ask Travis, when he's six feet tall...


When the team is found, to beeeee crap,
and all the fans, begin toooooo snap
Don't we want somebody up front?
Don't we need somebody up front?
Wouldn't we love somebody up front?
Bird better find somebody up front!


Happy? :)

Someone needs to change the "bunny with a pancake" avatar to a white rabbit. Probably need to have something other than a pancake on its head ..........oh wait, maybe that's what the "feed your head" part is about?

LG33
08-14-2007, 03:30 PM
Someone needs to change the "bunny with a pancake" avatar to a white rabbit. Probably need to have something other than a pancake on its head....JayRedd is a mama's boy......oh wait, maybe that's what the "feed your head" part is about?

Hahahaha, I like your way of thinking.

Arcadian
08-14-2007, 03:46 PM
One trade makes you larger (LA), and one trade makes you small (NJ),
But the ones Chicago gives us, don't do anything at all,
Go ask Travis, when he's six feet tall...


In Indiana deal and pill rhyme.

bellisimo
08-14-2007, 05:37 PM
One trade makes you larger (LA), and one trade makes you small (NJ),
But the ones Chicago gives us, don't do anything at all,
Go ask Travis, when he's six feet tall...


When the team is found, to beeeee crap,
and all the fans, begin toooooo snap
Don't we want somebody up front?
Don't we need somebody up front?
Wouldn't we love somebody up front?
Bird better find somebody up front!


Happy? :)

no...not really :cry: