PDA

View Full Version : Pacers.com} Walsh Doesn’t See Domino Effect from K.G. Deal



Will Galen
08-03-2007, 07:27 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_070803.html

Walsh Doesn’t See Domino Effect from K.G. Deal

Aug. 3, 2007
With Kevin Garnett off the market, more attention may shift to Jermaine O'Neal because he is perceived to be the most prominent name available. There's talk the Lakers, in the unending quest to make Kobe Bryant happy, will rekindle their pursuit. There's been some thought the Nets will reconsider what appears to be a decision to stick with the current roster.

So far, that's all speculation. Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh has seen no increase in actual activity since the Garnett trade.

"The Boston-Minnesota trade was being talked about before the draft, during the draft and obviously after the draft," he said. "There were a lot of teams that were interested in a player like Kevin Garnett. Most of those teams fell by the wayside early in the process and that's what made this Boston-Minnesota trade somewhat of a surprise.

"There may be one or two teams that felt they had a chance to get Garnett that will continue to search for that kind of trade but there's really no way of knowing that. So it's really up in the air as to whether this is going to shake loose teams that are going to continue to search for major trades – but it's a possibility."

Of course, O'Neal's availability likewise has been an assumption.

"It's a similar situation to where it is every year," Walsh said. "You'll talk about every player on your team but whether you're going to do something or not depends on how good the trade is and whether it makes you a better team.

"There are very, very few trades that involve players of the caliber of Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal, LeBron James, etc. They're few and far between."


CELTICS BETTER BUT EAST NOT THAT DIFFERENT
Boston has thrust itself into the playoff picture in the Eastern Conference, without question.

Beyond that, however, what really has changed? There's been so much discussion of a shifting balance of power in the East, I'm feeling a bit wobbly.

With Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen joining Paul Pierce, the Celtics have a formidable trio that should certainly assure a reversal of fortunes in Boston. Of course, there is that small matter of the league requiring five players on the court at any given time, but that's Doc Rivers' problem.

Some have decided to ordain the Knicks contenders because of the Zach Randolph deal and the deletion of Steve Francis from the overcrowded backcourt. Others believe the Knicks simply traded a problem at guard for the same problem in the post. Will Randolph and Eddy Curry fit together any better than Francis and Stephon Marbury?

Orlando should be better with Rashard Lewis but that team always seems to make more headlines in summer than winter. Aside from the headline deals, the vast majority of moves have fallen into the category of tweaks, not overhauls.

"After all these trades are done, it always comes back to the same place and that is: how do all these teams come together, and what effect did trades or whatever have on each team?" said Walsh. "We changed coaches. What effect will that have? Each team has something that they're hoping lifts them up from where they were last year and that's what makes this year, in my mind, really exciting.

"You may now pick Boston to win the East, but it isn't like picking San Antonio to win the West. It's all up for grabs still, but they're in a better position than they were before the trades. And some of the Eastern teams have made what look like improvements on paper but you have to look at how it affects the way they'll play, the chemistry they have, all of it.

"It's always been humorous to me how in August there's this rush of articles after trades that declare who's now going to win. The interesting thing is that nobody really keeps track of those articles to see what happened."


CROSHERE JOINS EX-TEAMMATES WITH WARRIORS
After one remarkably odd season in Dallas, Austin Croshere has found comfort in more familiar surroundings by signing with Golden State.

The Warriors' executive vice president is Chris Mullin, Croshere's teammate his first three seasons with the Pacers. Golden State also has ex-Pacers Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson and Sarunas Jasikevicius. And Croshere was a senior at Crossroads High in Santa Monica, Calif., when Warriors point guard Baron Davis was a freshman.

Croshere averaged just 11.9 minutes, 3.7 points and 3.0 rebounds in Dallas, shooting an uncharacteristic 28.6 percent from the 3-point line. He signed a reported one-year deal for the league minimum

“We’re very happy to add Austin to our roster,” said Mullin. “He provides another veteran presence on our team and we feel that he is someone who will be able to come in and make a contribution.”


PERSON LANDS ON HIS FEET WITH KINGS
With Chuck Person's hiring as an assistant to Reggie Theus in Sacramento, all of last seasons assistant coaches have found employment.

Dan Burke and Leonard Perry remained with the Pacers, while Johnny Davis (Memphis) and Chad Forcier (San Antonio) signed on with other teams.

"Chuck, who has built a strong coaching career in the league thus far, comes highly recommended by people within the league who I respect tremendously," Theus said.

Person also has a strong relationship with Kings forward Ron Artest, who has maintained his home in Indianapolis and frequently worked out with Person during the offseason.

Smashed_Potato
08-03-2007, 07:31 PM
Lol and who's gonna buy this bull?

blanket
08-03-2007, 07:39 PM
Lol and who's gonna buy this bull?

Where's the bull**** in the article?

It's from the Pacers FO, so obviously it's slanted that way, but it's not like he said "I'm not shopping JO" or anything like that.

Will Galen
08-03-2007, 07:42 PM
Lol and who's gonna buy this bull?

The title of the Pacer's.com article can be a bit misleading, just as are a lot of thread titles on here. All he said was he hadn't seen any increase in activity. I see nothing to proclaim bull about that.

Of course if you had read the article and comprehended what you read you would have known that. (grin)

I don't like misleading titles but if you put a different title then someone else will think it's a different article and post the same article.

Smashed_Potato
08-03-2007, 07:55 PM
I just don't buy it that the increased activity has been low even after the KG trade. JO is the only potential big-man superstar left on the market that can be a difference maker.

bulldog
08-03-2007, 07:57 PM
Where's the bull**** in the article?


...players of the caliber of Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal, LeBron James, etc. They're few and far between."


One of these things is not like the other...

Kegboy
08-03-2007, 08:41 PM
One of these things is not like the other...

What, he was just talking about HS'ers. Could have just as easily said Kwame Brown or Darius Miles.

:devil:

Anthem
08-03-2007, 09:57 PM
I just don't buy it that the increased activity has been low
Not sure I follow. You mean you don't believe there's been increased activity since the KG trade? Is that what you're saying?

Regardless, why would you want there to be more activity w/ people pursuing JO? Wouldn't that mean the Lakers would have competition?

Bynum Brigade
08-03-2007, 11:40 PM
Walsh sure is talking alot. I like how he is trying to spin the east's improvements like they make no difference. Yeah right!

kept
08-04-2007, 12:23 AM
"There are very, very few trades that involve players of the caliber of Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Jermaine O'Neal, LeBron James, etc. They're few and far between."
That is mighty high praise for Jermaine if Walsh thinks O'Neal is worth Garnett, Bryant and James.

Oneal07
08-04-2007, 02:01 AM
I agree with Walsh. . .Somewhat a lot of teams get hyped up in the offseason cause of trades, then all of a sudden they don't make any noise in the regular season!!!m either way it's gonna be an interesting season

LAKERERIC
08-04-2007, 01:04 PM
I don't know Donnie like you guys do, but I loved his putting JO, KG, Kobe, Lebron in the same sentence. I want the Lakers to get JO, but JO is closer to Lamar Odom at this stage than to any of those 3 guys. He is a borderline allstar, top 20 NBA player. Those guys are top 10. Reading between the lines, Walsh's key comment was saying that those teams interested in KG may now shift. That says to me he is interested in listening for sure. So, what teams may be interested? Nets, Lakers, Warriors, Mavs. I see those teams as the primary possibilities. I don't see a deal with NJ or GS. Sorry, but I can't see another GS-Pacers deal. Thorn is talking like a guy who likes his roster and Jefferson is sort of redundant for the Pacers. Dallas? They would offer a package centered around Terry and Diop. There is no way that intrigues the Pacers. The Pacers biggest needs, and correct me if I am wrong Pacers fans, are size and just overall talent in the backcourt. Walsh putting JO in the same sentence with KG may insinuate he expects a similar package to KG, while still realizing KG is better. JO is the Pacers best player as KG is the Wolves franchise player. I believe the Bynum and Crittenton deal, with Brown, Cook, 2 #1s, is a deal Walsh would accept. I read yesterday Walsh's quotes about Bynum. He obviously thinks very highly of the guy, and you know both Walsh and Bird know Abdul-Jabbar well, and Kareem loves Bynum. The interesting thing about this potential deal is that their are people in the Lakers and Pacers camps that want and do not want to do the deal. Pretty much everyone in the Lakers camp is against LO/Bynum, but they are about 70% in favor of Bynum and JC. Here, I'd say about 70% do not want the JC/Bynum deal, with many of you for LO/Bynum. As I said in another note, the KG deal is the key. Bynum and Jefferson, despite Jefferson putting up pretty good numbers last year on a miserable team, is close. Green and JC? Close. As I said in the other note: The Pacers may very well choose Bynum over Jefferson, and Crittenton over Green, and Cook, Brown, 2 #1s as filler. Maybe the Lakers will only offer 1 #1 because they feel this is over-market value for JO, but if this deal will not get killed over the draft picks. It will ultimately be decided on the 3 key players: Bynum, Crittenton, JO. I still hold firm that it is 50-50 if JO is dealt. If he is dealt, I would say there is an 85% chance it is to the Lakers.

Naptown_Seth
08-04-2007, 01:52 PM
Yeah, top 20 guys are falling off trees, top 10s are extremely rare. That comparison by Donnie makes no sense at all. :rolleyes:


Sheesh, I actually don't mind people popping in to talk about the possible involvement of their team with the Pacers but this is getting annoying. YOU DON'T NEED TO CONVINCE US, none of us are going to pull this JO trigger for you.

You get super-PO'd because Donnie doesn't lapdog for the Lakers, you rant and rave about what's fair or not, trash JO as if that makes him more tradeable and hype what LA has as if that also makes a deal more likely.

Drop the ego already and try on someone else's shoes for a second. DW isn't working the LA deal trying to get more. DW is doing what the Pacers ALWAYS do, you know like every other year when you DON'T follow the Pacers offseason: he's preparing the fans for whatever decision the team has already made. There have been tons of articles dropping hints about no major deals, specifically to prime the pump and get fans in that mindset so the blowback won't be as bad. Sounds clearly like at this point both sides have no interest in what the other is offering and aren't in a hurry to change their minds. Barring a sudden change of heart get ready for no deal to come through.



I can't freaking wait for this summer to be over and for JO to still be a Pacer. Enjoying getting knocked out of the playoffs by New Orleans. At least LA will be a title contender in 4 years when Bynum, Crittendon and Farmar mature.

Indy will be stuck watching the crap that is Williams, Granger and Ike, guys who are clearly the cat's butt compared to the Lakers mega-star list of young talent.

Doug
08-04-2007, 02:27 PM
Here, I'd say about 70% do not want the JC/Bynum deal, with many of you for LO/Bynum.

Green and JC? Close.

Boy, I'd love to have JC on the Pacers. There is no way Green is even close to him. No chance.

I didn't know even Jesus Christ played, but I'm sure he can hoop it up like no other!


Oh, you're talking about the #19 pick in the draft who hasn't done squat in the NBA yet? Sorry, the way you Laker fans go on about "JC", I figured "JC" must be Jesus Christ.

Never mind.

speakout4
08-04-2007, 03:46 PM
Laker Eric knows very well that if LA doesn't get JO the wheels come off that franchise. That team will have mega bad chemistry and will be forced to dump Kobe. Even Hollywood Jack will offer to escort Kobe out of town. We Indy fans do not expect a greatly competitive team this year but LA people expect that every year. Eric, enjoy watching Boston go deep in the playoffs.

Right now the Pacers do not have to make a trade. We already made the most significant move by replacing RC.

idioteque
08-04-2007, 04:15 PM
We Indy fans do not expect a greatly competitive team this year but LA people expect that every year.

Eh, speak for yourself.

Pacer fans today expect a decent, competitive team every year, and our market seems to demand it. DW has alluded to this time and time again, which is why you'll never see us rebuild in a manner similar to Portland.

JayRedd
08-04-2007, 04:17 PM
Boy, I'd love to have JC on the Pacers. There is no way Green is even close to him. No chance.

I didn't know even Jesus Christ played, but I'm sure he can hoop it up like no other!


Oh, you're talking about the #19 pick in the draft who hasn't done squat in the NBA yet? Sorry, the way you Laker fans go on about "JC", I figured "JC" must be Jesus Christ.

Never mind.

Can't belive you hadn't heard about His return.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50097


Forward Stacey Augmon, just one of many Hawks players who claims to have a personal relationship with Christ, said, "He's taught me so much, like how to love your enemies as yourself, to pray for those who hurt you, and when to pass up the three in favor of a higher percentage shot."

speakout4
08-04-2007, 04:53 PM
Eh, speak for yourself.

Pacer fans today expect a decent, competitive team every year, and our market seems to demand it. DW has alluded to this time and time again, which is why you'll never see us rebuild in a manner similar to Portland.
Yes you can watch portland go deep into the playoffs for the coming decade while the non-rebuiding pacers are on vacation. You may also never see an Oden or Durant type on the Pacers either.

JayRedd
08-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Pacer fans today expect a decent, competitive team every year, and our market seems to demand it. DW has alluded to this time and time again, which is why you'll never see us rebuild in a manner similar to Portland.

Don't Indianapolis and Portland have pretty equivalent markets? And Portland doesn't even have any other pro sports franchises.

Doug
08-04-2007, 07:28 PM
Can't belive you hadn't heard about His return.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/50097

Well, no wonder I didn't hear about it... He was with the Hawks.

LAKERERIC
08-04-2007, 07:53 PM
Laker Eric knows very well that if LA doesn't get JO the wheels come off that franchise. That team will have mega bad chemistry and will be forced to dump Kobe. Even Hollywood Jack will offer to escort Kobe out of town. We Indy fans do not expect a greatly competitive team this year but LA people expect that every year. Eric, enjoy watching Boston go deep in the playoffs.

Right now the Pacers do not have to make a trade. We already made the most significant move by replacing RC.

They may fall off. Trading Kobe next offseason may well be possible. Unless the young talent combined with adding Fisher gets them to the second round. If that happens, and the arrow is pointed up, Kobe probably stays. Another round 1 exit will certainly open that possibility. That being said, where are the Pacers at? They are not a playoff team in my eyes. Could they be? Yes. I view them as about the 10 seed in the east. In my eyes, and I could be wrong, but I don't think you can do better than the Lakers offer. I mean that. You may keep him and the young players will mature and you guys will be ready to be a top east team in 3 years with JO at 32. If I were a Pacer fan, and I really mean this, I would except the deal. Trades are designed to benefit both teams, obviously this deal may help a top 6-7 team in the conference have a shot. You guys would be adding young talent that only dealing JO would be able to net you. I am not saying the deal is a no-brainer for the Pacers, but if you told me that Walsh turned down a Laker offer of Crittenton, Brown, Bynum, Cook, 2 #1s for JO, I would be surprised. Not shocked, but surprised. I think the hatred, and that is the appropriate word, for the Lakers and Kobe that some people have makes fans almost not want to make a deal just to spite them. I know you guys get annoyed at me and the other trolls, but it will all be over soon. We'll go away. But I get the NBA package and will definitely be watching the Pacers whether this deal goes down or not. I guess my hope was to convince you that this deal is a good deal for both teams, and I really think it is, but you guys have made good points on way it is dangerous for Indiana. I just think the upside talent up Bynum and Crittenton offsets any downside of losing JO, since you may not be a playoff team with him. The Lakers need to go for out now for obvious reasons, and the only immediate chance they have is to trade the talented prospects and picks for the proven 20-10-3 guy. Bynum may be that in 2011 but the Lakers can't wait. The Pacers may be able to. Crittenton will be able to make a solid impact, in my eyes, in his second year. If he stays a Laker, I envision him being able to play 1-2 to push Kobe to the 3. It is possible Kobe looks at the young talent the Lakers have, and it is not bad, and decides to stay put. That being said, the time to push the envelope is now, thus, I'd do the deal.

Tom White
08-04-2007, 08:04 PM
me and the other trolls


There is more truth in those five words than anywhere else in this thread.

Anthem
08-04-2007, 08:55 PM
the proven 20-10-3 guy. Bynum may be that in 2011
But then he may not. And he may never be.

And it's hard to imagine him being much more than that. It's hard to imagine Bynum's ceiling being much higher than 20-10-3, while Jermaine's already there.

LAKERERIC
08-04-2007, 10:35 PM
But then he may not. And he may never be.

And it's hard to imagine him being much more than that. It's hard to imagine Bynum's ceiling being much higher than 20-10-3, while Jermaine's already there.

All totally valid points. In fact, Bynum's potential, in my opinion, tops out at 20-10-3. I see him as 15-10-3. Think of him being in the Mutombo, Smits, R.Parish, B. Daugherty class of centers. Can he be in the Mourning/Ewing class? Well, that would be his ultimate upside. You will have this for the next ten years. Crittenton is a very talented kid. He can handle, shoot, and defend. I see him as a more athletic version of Jack, another G. Tech guy who looks pretty solid. The two picks will come in handy. If you guys can see yourself in the Eastern Conference Finals in the next 3 years with the team you have, you should probably keep him. But if you feel deep down that the team is treading water, then this is the type of trade the Pacers should make. You may even get the better end of the deal ultimately, by the way.

BlueNGold
08-04-2007, 10:44 PM
There is more truth in those five words than anywhere else in this thread.

Not all are really trolls...but more than a couple are.

Those that are trolls make me miss the Sarunas Euro-fans.

It will be nice when they clear out.

oneofthesedays
08-04-2007, 11:16 PM
I think people referring to Bynum the same way they would a lottery pick need to look at the facts more carefully. The reality is our FO is keeping this kid at the cost of possibly losing Kobe. That should say something right there about his future in the NBA. As far as my knowledge goes he has not been offered in any deal thus far for JO. I think as soon as he gets made available the Pacers will jump on the deal. They jump on it because there are really no better offers and if they want to ultimately improve the best time to make a move is now, when JO's trade value is at its highest.

It's not just Bynum that you would be getting in this deal. Kwame and Critter would have to be included for the Pacers to bite. You get Bynum, a legit PG prospect in Critter, and an expiring K in Kwame. Kwame plays good D against the best Centers out there in the West, he should do fine in the East. So no you don't get as much as the T-wolves did for KG, but JO is not the same caliber player as KG. KG is a HOF talent, JO is closer to LO talent-wise than KG.

Bynum Brigade
08-04-2007, 11:23 PM
Not all are really trolls...but more than a couple are.

Those that are trolls make me miss the Sarunas Euro-fans.

It will be nice when they clear out.

Hey, without us trolls this place would be a ghost town. Admit it we're growing on some of you guys. :D

LoneGranger33
08-04-2007, 11:45 PM
Not all are really trolls...but more than a couple are.

Do you see this writing? Do you know what it means?!
Hospitality, and you can't **** on hospitality! I WON'T ALLOW IT!

http://www.bad-good.org/troll2/veg.jpg




(forgive me all, I had to find a way to get T2 involved)

BlueNGold
08-05-2007, 08:26 AM
Hey, without us trolls this place would be a ghost town. Admit it we're growing on some of you guys. :D

Sorry BB, you sir are a TROLL!

Hicks
08-05-2007, 10:33 AM
Hey, without us trolls this place would be a ghost town. Admit it we're growing on some of you guys. :D

We ban trolls.

Kegboy
08-05-2007, 10:43 AM
We ban trolls.

Come on sheriff, can't we just hang'em. :hang:

(Somebody needs to put in a "Trolls beware" sign on that.)

Bynum Brigade
08-05-2007, 02:49 PM
Come on guys, I know I come into your house and put my feet up on the furniture, eat whats in the fridge and occaisonally hit on your wife but it's not all that bad is it? :buddies:

Hicks
08-05-2007, 03:10 PM
Come on guys, I know I come into your house and put my feet up on the furniture, eat whats in the fridge and occaisonally hit on your wife but it's not all that bad is it? :buddies:

Notice the lack of joking. Now read my last post again. You've been warned. I appreciate other teams' fans coming here, but there's a difference between joining the discussion and coming into our house to insult our family. If I feel for much longer that some of you are here more for the latter than the former, your asses WILL be thrown out the front door.

Bynum Brigade
08-05-2007, 04:35 PM
Notice the lack of joking. Now read my last post again. You've been warned. I appreciate other teams' fans coming here, but there's a difference between joining the discussion and coming into our house to insult our family. If I feel for much longer that some of you are here more for the latter than the former, your asses WILL be thrown out the front door.

Don't worry you were heard loud and clear along time ago. If having fun and joking is not allowed then you wont have to worry about banning me, I'll ban myself. We shoudn't be expected to partake in serious discussion every time we post. We are not robots, we're people.:hmm:

Just because Laker fans have a strong opinion that some of you don't like, it does not make us a troll. Most of us have kept it in the disignated thread. Near all of the Laker fan's posts have been strictly centered around JO trade speculation. While the aurguments get heated both sides make outlandish comments all the time not just Laker fans. Nobody here has tried to disrupt your board and although some of us make stupid remarks in humor or even frustration, IMO it is not trolling.

owl
08-05-2007, 04:55 PM
Hey, without us trolls this place would be a ghost town. Admit it we're growing on some of you guys. :D

Sorta like a fungus. Yeah, I know what you mean. ;-)

Hicks
08-05-2007, 05:08 PM
Don't worry you were heard loud and clear along time ago. If having fun and joking is not allowed then you wont have to worry about banning me, I'll ban myself. We shoudn't be expected to partake in serious discussion every time we post. We are not robots, we're people.:hmm:

Joking is fine, but other times the posts become nothing but shots taken at us or our team, and that is crossing the line. Hiding behind "it was just a joke" changes nothing. Frankly, continually trying to shove BS down our throats about proposed deals gets old and spammish after a while as well. Either understand that and change, or leave. I'll admit right now with more emotions involved the lines get blurry, but if you lurk long enough you'll see the difference between what we allow here and what I'm talking about right now.

Shade
08-05-2007, 05:16 PM
Boy, I'd love to have JC on the Pacers. There is no way Green is even close to him. No chance.

I didn't know even Jesus Christ played, but I'm sure he can hoop it up like no other!


Oh, you're talking about the #19 pick in the draft who hasn't done squat in the NBA yet? Sorry, the way you Laker fans go on about "JC", I figured "JC" must be Jesus Christ.

Never mind.

I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who noticed that "connection." :D

Shade
08-05-2007, 05:17 PM
Well, no wonder I didn't hear about it... He was with the Hawks.

...which explains why Atlanta still has an NBA franchise.

Shade
08-05-2007, 05:21 PM
I think people referring to Bynum the same way they would a lottery pick need to look at the facts more carefully. The reality is our FO is keeping this kid at the cost of possibly losing Kobe. That should say something right there about his future in the NBA. As far as my knowledge goes he has not been offered in any deal thus far for JO. I think as soon as he gets made available the Pacers will jump on the deal. They jump on it because there are really no better offers and if they want to ultimately improve the best time to make a move is now, when JO's trade value is at its highest.

It's not just Bynum that you would be getting in this deal. Kwame and Critter would have to be included for the Pacers to bite. You get Bynum, a legit PG prospect in Critter, and an expiring K in Kwame. Kwame plays good D against the best Centers out there in the West, he should do fine in the East. So no you don't get as much as the T-wolves did for KG, but JO is not the same caliber player as KG. KG is a HOF talent, JO is closer to LO talent-wise than KG.

The Lakers are at the point where they need to quit straddling the lane and either:

A) Trade Bynum, and build a contender NOW around Kobe,
OR
B) Trade Kobe, and build a contender for the future around Bynum.

They can't have both.

The Lakers also need to consider that if they don't move Kwame's expiring deal this season, they lose it. And I doubt Kobe will stay silent for another entire year.

As for Critt, he just ISN'T THAT GOOD. He's not the type of PG that the Pacers are looking for to run their future team. We would MUCH rather have a pick in next season's guard-laden draft crop, where there will be TONS of better guards than Javaris Crittenton.

A lot of Lakers fan are under the misguided notion that Odom is near JO's caliber, and he isn't. JO is a better offense player and a much, MUCH better defensive player than LO. The two aren't even close.

BlueNGold
08-05-2007, 07:31 PM
A lot of Lakers fan are under the misguided notion that Odom is near JO's caliber, and he isn't. JO is a better offense player and a much, MUCH better defensive player than LO. The two aren't even close.

I'm not a JO fan but I could not agree with this more. Scratch that, I even think you might be understating JO's ability on offense.

JO is a load in the post. If he was not doubled 75% of the time, he would be scoring in the mid 20's to 30's every game. More specifically, JO would score in the upper 20's against the same level of defense that limits Odom to 16ppg. I consider that combined with his much, much better defense (e.g. 2.6bpg v 0.6bpg) to make the gap quite wide between the two of them.

KB>KG>JO>>LO

LAKERERIC
08-05-2007, 10:36 PM
Joking is fine, but other times the posts become nothing but shots taken at us or our team, and that is crossing the line. Hiding behind "it was just a joke" changes nothing. Frankly, continually trying to shove BS down our throats about proposed deals gets old and spammish after a while as well. Either understand that and change, or leave. I'll admit right now with more emotions involved the lines get blurry, but if you lurk long enough you'll see the difference between what we allow here and what I'm talking about right now.

Trying to flex your muscles a little too much man. We all know this is what makes it fan. I like the Pacers fans. I was thinking maybe Indi was a Colts only town, despite the tradition, but I see how passsionate you all are. We all care about our teams a lot (more than we should but who cares) and want what is best for them. The reason I keep bugging you guys is that the deal makes sense to me for both teams. I hate people who cannot see a deal from the perspective of the other team. My opinion is this deal may be a good one for both teams, one more in the short term. Many of you have disagreed and offered solid points. Lakers fans, just like Pacers fans, are wavering about what they would concede in a JO deal. There is a faction of fans that would take Murphy and JO for Bynum and Odom because they like JCs potential, and believe Brown and JO is a good post tandem. I disagree. But I always meant for my notes to create good conversation, but I think it is obvious we have run this into the ground. If a deal happens, it should be discussed. Until then, it probably should be on hold.

Lord Helmet
08-05-2007, 11:25 PM
Trying to flex your muscles a little too much man. We all know this is what makes it fan. I like the Pacers fans. I was thinking maybe Indi was a Colts only town, despite the tradition, but I see how passsionate you all are. We all care about our teams a lot (more than we should but who cares) and want what is best for them. The reason I keep bugging you guys is that the deal makes sense to me for both teams. I hate people who cannot see a deal from the perspective of the other team. My opinion is this deal may be a good one for both teams, one more in the short term. Many of you have disagreed and offered solid points. Lakers fans, just like Pacers fans, are wavering about what they would concede in a JO deal. There is a faction of fans that would take Murphy and JO for Bynum and Odom because they like JCs potential, and believe Brown and JO is a good post tandem. I disagree. But I always meant for my notes to create good conversation, but I think it is obvious we have run this into the ground. If a deal happens, it should be discussed. Until then, it probably should be on hold.
Where the hell would you get that? Indy is just a Colts town? Do you mean recently, or overall, from what you said it sounds as if you were implying Indy has always been a Colts town, which it clearly hasn't.

LAKERERIC
08-06-2007, 12:23 AM
Where the hell would you get that? Indy is just a Colts town? Do you mean recently, or overall, from what you said it sounds as if you were implying Indy has always been a Colts town, which it clearly hasn't.

I know basketball is in the blood but I imagine the Colts, with their great success, have made Indi a total two sport town. I guess I also was thinking that the whole Detroit incident and the subsequent Jackson/Artest stuff may have turned Indi fans off to the NBA. I know it would have infuriated me. As for the Colts, they are a top 2 team in their sport (N.England) for a five year period and counting. I have you losing to the Patriots in the AFC Title game, with their additions and the subtraction of Glenn. But maybe you guys have the psychological edge over them now, sort of like the Yankees and Red Sox shift after the 2004 series comeback. Either way I am a Redskins fan, so oh well.

skyfire
08-06-2007, 12:57 AM
There is a faction of fans that would take Murphy and JO for Bynum and Odom because they like JCs potential, and believe Brown and JO is a good post tandem. I disagree.

JO and Brown would be a good PF/C combo. JO is best when he has a physical post defender playing next to him, which is Kwame's best skill.

All the Lakers fans coming on here telling us that we should accept JO for Kwame/Bynum/Crit/etc is pointless. LB/DW have shown they wont take that deal and the Lakers are the ones trying to keep their superstar happy. The Pacers are operating from a position of strength and have no reason to take a lesser deal.

LAKERERIC
08-06-2007, 10:04 AM
JO and Brown would be a good PF/C combo. JO is best when he has a physical post defender playing next to him, which is Kwame's best skill.

All the Lakers fans coming on here telling us that we should accept JO for Kwame/Bynum/Crit/etc is pointless. LB/DW have shown they wont take that deal and the Lakers are the ones trying to keep their superstar happy. The Pacers are operating from a position of strength and have no reason to take a lesser deal.

This is foolish. The Lakers are not going to make a foolish trade just to make one. In my eyes, and in the eyes of most Laker fans, JO is not worth Bynum and Odom. By the way, just because the Lakers are so much more publicized than the Pacers does not mean they are desperate. The Pacers are a non-playoff eastern conference team. How are they not desperate? There is a very good chance they are looking at another lottery this year. Kobe Bryant and his cry baby b.s. will not force the Lakers into any deal. In fact, the Pacers, who have not added anybody to that non-playoff team, should be under pressure by their fans to either add to the talent or to rebuild. Keeping JO with the current team is a first class ticket to nowhere, but as long as the Lakers still are one and done, it's all good. Right Pacers fans? And I conclude by asking the following question: If you ask 30 teams in the NBA: What combo would you rather have, KG, Bynum, Crittenton, Cook or JO, Jefferson, Green, and Gomes. We may disagree, but I believe the vast majority of teams would take the former, mainly because of KG, but my point is KG is of higher value than JO, more than Jefferson-Green are to Bynum-Crittenton, by a decent margin. So asking for Odom is asking for more than JO is worth, based on that criteria.

naptownmenace
08-06-2007, 12:40 PM
That is mighty high praise for Jermaine if Walsh thinks O'Neal is worth Garnett, Bryant and James.

The only real similarities are that they are perrenial All-Stars, the best player on their team, and the amount of money they make makes it difficult to find a good trade partner and get equal value. He's right BTW.

Anthem
08-06-2007, 01:22 PM
There is a faction of fans that would take Murphy and JO for Bynum and Odom because they like JCs potential, and believe Brown and JO is a good post tandem.
You probably weren't here at the time, but back before you guys started showing up I think we managed to work out a PD consensus that LA's best frontcourt for this year would be to keep Kwame and get Jermaine for Bynum and Odom. Gives you a defense and offense frontcourt, saves JO the pounding, etc.

Murphy's a smart player, and I could see him doing well in the triangle.

skyfire
08-06-2007, 07:29 PM
This is foolish. The Lakers are not going to make a foolish trade just to make one. In my eyes, and in the eyes of most Laker fans, JO is not worth Bynum and Odom. By the way, just because the Lakers are so much more publicized than the Pacers does not mean they are desperate. The Pacers are a non-playoff eastern conference team. How are they not desperate? There is a very good chance they are looking at another lottery this year. Kobe Bryant and his cry baby b.s. will not force the Lakers into any deal. In fact, the Pacers, who have not added anybody to that non-playoff team, should be under pressure by their fans to either add to the talent or to rebuild. Keeping JO with the current team is a first class ticket to nowhere, but as long as the Lakers still are one and done, it's all good. Right Pacers fans? And I conclude by asking the following question: If you ask 30 teams in the NBA: What combo would you rather have, KG, Bynum, Crittenton, Cook or JO, Jefferson, Green, and Gomes. We may disagree, but I believe the vast majority of teams would take the former, mainly because of KG, but my point is KG is of higher value than JO, more than Jefferson-Green are to Bynum-Crittenton, by a decent margin. So asking for Odom is asking for more than JO is worth, based on that criteria.

You're right, this is foolish. Trying to compare JO to KG is irrelevant now that KG has been dealt, since this further enhances the Pacers position. JO is the only star bigman left that the Lakers could acquire. You're also right that the Pacers could end up in the lottery if they stand pat, but they could do that. The Lakers are either going to have to get Kobe some help or they are going to have a big problem. JO respects Donnie Walsh so he isn't going to sabotage his trade value or opt out of his contract. You can spin it any way you want, but the Pacers are operating from a position of strength in these negotiations.