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diamonddave00
07-30-2007, 01:41 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7073708


Sources: Celtics close to deal for Garnett
Jeff Goodman
FOXSports.com, Updated 2 minutes ago


The on-again, off-again deal with the Boston Celtics acquiring Kevin Garnett apparently is back on.

According to sources, the current deal on the table has the 6-foot-11 Garnett heading to Boston and the Celtics dealing away Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff's hefty expiring contract and Rajon Rondo. There may also be other players and draft picks involved.
It's not quite done, but three industry sources including one close to the Celtics told FOXSports.com that it's extremely close and could become official within the next 48 hours.

"It's basically done," one source said. "If it does happen, this will make the Celtics relevant again."

Celtics boss Danny Ainge attempted to trade for the Minnesota Timberwolves star forward prior to the NBA Draft, but the 31-year-old perennial All-Star had no interest in heading to Boston.

However, things may have changed now that Ainge and the Celtics pulled off the draft day deal with Seattle for Ray Allen.

There have been numerous discussions during the last week between Ainge and Wolves vice president Kevin McHale, who are good friends dating back to their days playing together on the Celtics.

Garnett has the option to get out of his contract which pays $22 million next season after the 2008 campaign and become a free agent. He averaged 22.4 points and 12.8 rebounds per game last season his 12th in the NBA.


Garnett is a 10-time NBA All-Star and was the league's MVP in 2004. He is also one of the better defensive players in the NBA.

The deal would give Ainge a team that could compete with anyone in the Eastern Conference with the trio of Paul Pierce, Garnett and Allen. The Celtics would also have nearly $60 million in salaries between the three players for next season alone.

The Wolves would get one of the league's top young players in the 22-year-old Jefferson, who averaged 16 points and 11 boards in 69 games a year ago, and a second-year point guard in Rondo with plenty of potential. They would also get Ratliff's $11.7 million salary, which will come off the books after this season.

sweabs
07-30-2007, 01:43 AM
Wow - that'd make quite the trio.

ilive4sports
07-30-2007, 01:43 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7073708?MSNHPHMA

The on-again, off-again deal with the Boston Celtics acquiring Kevin Garnett apparently is back on.
According to sources, the current deal on the table has the 6-foot-11 Garnett heading to Boston and the Celtics dealing away Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff's hefty expiring contract and Rajon Rondo. There may also be other players and draft picks involved.It's not quite done, but three industry sources including one close to the Celtics told FOXSports.com that it's extremely close and could become official within the next 48 hours.
"It's basically done," one source said. "If it does happen, this will make the Celtics relevant again."

Well will KG come out and say he doesnt want to be in Boston again or will the addition of Ray Allen be enough to swing him? Al Jefferson is good, but this is KG we are talking about. This would make Boston legit contenders having PP, Allen and KG. Three guys who will get 20 a night and arent to selfish. With that being said, i will believe it when i see it.

ilive4sports
07-30-2007, 01:44 AM
Beat me by two minutes...

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 01:50 AM
I'd watch this. If for nothing else than to watch Celts fans commit ritual suicide if that trio didn't win a championship and Al puts up better numbers than KG.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 02:27 AM
I'd watch this. If for nothing else than to watch Celts fans commit ritual suicide if that trio didn't win a championship and Al puts up better numbers than KG.
I guess Ainge decided to try to win now with Pierce as opposed to holding onto AlJeff.

I don't see how Cs fans can be that upset to lose AlJeff....they give up AlJeff while getting one of the best players in the league to add to their existing roster of 2 All Stars.

The team could be stacked with 3 All-Stars to make a good run at the Championship for at least 2 to 4 seasons. At the very least...I don't see how this team cannot make it into the 2nd round of the playoffs with that 3-headed monster. If I were a Cs fan that went from the Playoffs to the one of the worst records in the league in 1 season.....I would be more then happy with that.

Y2J
07-30-2007, 02:31 AM
The rest of the East might as well just give it up now if this deal goes down. A trio of KG, Pierce, and Allen is a 55 win team in the East if they don't develop chemistry. If they do, 60+ wins can easily be attained. They can pick up a decent PG via Houston or even take on one of the Wolves guys (Jaric, Hudson) if you have to. Perkins can rebound and play defense, that's all you really need out of your center with the All-Star trio putting up 70 a night by themselves.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 02:33 AM
I will ask the obvious question ( cuz you know someone is going to post/ask it )......if the KG deal does go through......does this increase the chances of the Lakers caving to any Pacer demands on JONeal?

It sounds like the Lakers were waiting for the TWolves "shoe" to drop.

I guess...as DD00 suggests....we will know by this upcoming week :shrug:

CableKC
07-30-2007, 02:36 AM
The rest of the East might as well just give it up now if this deal goes down. A trio of KG, Pierce, and Allen is a 55 win team in the East if they don't develop chemistry. If they do, 60+ wins can easily be attained. They can pick up a decent PG via Houston or even take on one of the Wolves guys (Jaric, Hudson) if you have to. Perkins can rebound and play defense, that's all you really need out of your center with the All-Star trio putting up 70 a night by themselves.
No kidding......what's worse ( I guess for us and the rest of the East ) is that all of them are unselfish players.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 02:40 AM
I will ask the obvious question ( cuz you know someone is going to post/ask it )......if the KG deal does go through......does this increase the chances of the Lakers caving to any Pacer demands on JONeal?

It sounds like the Lakers were waiting for the TWolves "shoe" to drop.

I guess...as DD00 suggests....we will know by this upcoming week :shrug:

Hope so. One would also think this would make TPTB more likely to give up JO, one more team that'll be significantly better than us for the forseeable future.

That said, I'm not feeling this as far as Boston is concerned. Reminds me of when LA brought in Malone and Payton. Chemistry goes a long way. Coaching does too.

Arcadian
07-30-2007, 02:46 AM
Getting an easily top 10 player without giving up your first or second best player? Granted these aren't good GM's were talking about but I just can't believe it.

tora tora
07-30-2007, 02:52 AM
Stupid move by Boston, Jefferson can put up better numbers than KG any night. This one's gonna come back and haunt them for sure.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 02:53 AM
Getting an easily top 10 player without giving up your first or second best player? Granted these aren't good GM's were talking about but I just can't believe it.
I'm not so sure Jefferson isn't better than Ray Allen next year. Also, I'm not so sure he's not better than KG in a year or two. At least they are doing something, being active, and trying to win now. I'd take trying this and failing over not trying at all.

Also, this wouldn't be like that Lakers team...Allen and KG aren't exactly Malone and GP at the end of their careers. We're talking about two vets still in their prime. Also, as "bad" as that Lakers team turned out...didn't they still win the West and make the finals? Like Y2J says, if this Celtics team doesn't develop chemistry it might still be decent.

Arcadian
07-30-2007, 03:03 AM
You guys are way higher on Jefferson tha I am. Jefferson = Brian Winters, KG = Kareem.

Aw Heck
07-30-2007, 03:56 AM
If that deal goes down, Boston has to be one of the favorites in the East. The last time KG had a good supporting cast (Cassell, Sprewell, Szczerbiak), they went to the Western Conference Finals. If you team up KG with Pierce and Allen, the Celtics could surely make it to the conference finals in the East. The only potential stumbling blocks are injuries and Doc Rivers.

Heck, those three aren't getting any younger, so you might as well try to win it all now. Fire Rivers and hire a better coach, because there are better ones out there. Jeff Van Gundy, Rick Carlisle, and even...*gulp*...Larry Brown to name a few.

And that will be the final deal for Kevin McHale. He's a goner when/if the deal goes down.

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 04:58 AM
****.... God .... this is just a nightmare.

Kstat
07-30-2007, 05:07 AM
It's sad McHale can't do any better than that....but at least he got the best prospect available.

The Celtics would become an elite east team with that deal, but like the nets, their big 3 is going to have almost nothing around them. Rondo and Perkins to not scare me as your starting PG and center.

Eindar
07-30-2007, 06:49 AM
It's sad McHale can't do any better than that....but at least he got the best prospect available.

The Celtics would become an elite east team with that deal, but like the nets, their big 3 is going to have almost nothing around them. Rondo and Perkins to not scare me as your starting PG and center.

They'd give up Rondo in the deal as well, supposedly. I think the "big 3" of Boston would be much, much better than the version on the Nets. Of course, your team is in trouble if it has to think about retaining Sebastian Telfair as a starting PG.

Unclebuck
07-30-2007, 07:27 AM
Keg, I agree, coaching and chemistry could be a problem for the Celts. But on paper this trade would move the Celtics to the top of the eastern conference.

I think at worst, if the chemistry doesn't quite work out and even if their backcourt defense is as bad as it appears to me, I still think the Celtics would be a top 4 team in the east

Unclebuck
07-30-2007, 07:40 AM
Stupid move by Boston, Jefferson can put up better numbers than KG any night. This one's gonna come back and haunt them for sure.

There are more important thing than numbers. Like defense, experience, attitude, leadership. Al Jefferson will never be as good as Garnett - not even close



I might have missed it, but why are we expecting something on the JO trade to happen this week???

OnlyPacersLeft
07-30-2007, 08:11 AM
wow the celtics are going to be flippin good! altho this could be a smoke screen and it end up being JO. (Shoot i'd take rondo,jefferson,w/e for em)

Fool
07-30-2007, 08:18 AM
I hope this thing happens. I'd like to watch that team.

count55
07-30-2007, 08:25 AM
Hope so. One would also think this would make TPTB more likely to give up JO, one more team that'll be significantly better than us for the forseeable future.

That said, I'm not feeling this as far as Boston is concerned. Reminds me of when LA brought in Malone and Payton. Chemistry goes a long way. Coaching does too.


Two things:

1. That team with Malone and Payton got to the Finals, and the chemistry problems weren't with those guys, they were between Shaq and Kobe. You could also argue that (a) the Lakers don't get by Minny without Malone, and (b) the Lakers were significantly damaged by the injury suffered by Malone in late in the Minny series.

2. While Garnett has a nasty reputation of being a perfectionist, one thing works really well in this equation: He's comfortable being a facilitator. While he'll be far and away the best player on the team, he won't challenge either Pierce or Allen for primacy of shots. If Pierce and Allen are getting their looks, while Garnett adds defense, passing, rebounding and the best "3rd option" in the history of the game, it should work out.

We've all learned with the Pacers that chemistry is vital. I'm certainly not trying to poo-poo this concern. However, Garnett is such a huge addition that you have to take the chance. Also, I think that if there's going to be any chemistry problems, it will come from Pierce. If he creates issues in this situation, then the C's were going to be in trouble regardless.

DisplacedKnick
07-30-2007, 08:47 AM
I'm not so sure Jefferson isn't better than Ray Allen next year. Also, I'm not so sure he's not better than KG in a year or two.


I am. Jefferson will never even be close to where KG is defensively or as a passer. Unless you're thinking KG's due to decline a bunch within a year or two which I don't - IMO there's no reason to think he won't stay at about the level he is now for another 3-4 years anyway.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 08:54 AM
I am. Jefferson will never even be close to where KG is defensively or as a passer. Unless you're thinking KG's due to decline a bunch within a year or two which I don't - IMO there's no reason to think he won't stay at about the level he is now for another 3-4 years anyway.
I just don't know if Al Jefferson at 24 won't be better than KG at 33. Also, KG is more perimeter-oriented than Jefferson is. Considering the Celtics already have two perimeter players, Jefferson might be a better fit overall. However, I still like this deal in general because KG is KG and I think he'll stay at this level for at least 2 more years, like you said. It's after that that I'm unsure of.

gph
07-30-2007, 09:11 AM
Wait...if someone said: Jefferson for Garnett and you wouldn't do it, you are insane. The celtics were awful. Who cares what Jefferson put up on that team? In Atlanta, Harrington looked like he came into his own, but when he was back on the Pacers, nothing special, and totally awful with the warriors. This is KG.

Perkins in he paint might be ok for 15 minutes a night. small ball the rest for the C spot. Back up forward, I like Gomes there. The glaring weakness is PG. If they do get rid of green in the trade, I don't know how they get another point. what do they trade?

DgR
07-30-2007, 09:12 AM
Two things:

1. That team with Malone and Payton got to the Finals, and the chemistry problems weren't with those guys, they were between Shaq and Kobe. You could also argue that (a) the Lakers don't get by Minny without Malone, and (b) the Lakers were significantly damaged by the injury suffered by Malone in late in the Minny series.

2. While Garnett has a nasty reputation of being a perfectionist, one thing works really well in this equation: He's comfortable being a facilitator. While he'll be far and away the best player on the team, he won't challenge either Pierce or Allen for primacy of shots. If Pierce and Allen are getting their looks, while Garnett adds defense, passing, rebounding and the best "3rd option" in the history of the game, it should work out.

We've all learned with the Pacers that chemistry is vital. I'm certainly not trying to poo-poo this concern. However, Garnett is such a huge addition that you have to take the chance. Also, I think that if there's going to be any chemistry problems, it will come from Pierce. If he creates issues in this situation, then the C's were going to be in trouble regardless.

I completely agree.

What's the point of keeping young talented prospects if your not going to see them play on your team in the prime of their careers? Some people seem to think keeping players just because they haven't yet reached their full potential yet makes good sense. Not to me. The whole point and purpose of NBA franchises is to win a championships for the fans- and you do that (usualy) with players in their prime- would the Celts have a better chance of winning a ring with Al Jeff in the future or with KG in 1-3 years?
This is KG we're talking about. One of the best PF ever! And its not like he's alone like Kobe in LA- he'd have Allen- one of the best shooters in the league (if not the best) and Pierce who is a great all around player. Trading Al Jeff for KG makes perfect sense even if he would beat the odds and turn out to be the better player in 3-5 years (which he wouldn't- not even close). Boston has two All stars in their prime right now! and it's not like they're settling for a player with inferior talent because they cant wait any longer- they're getting KG

1. LA with GP and Malone got to the Finals in the first and only year in which they've played together while Boston will have a few years to develop chemistry in a much weaker conference.
2. That LA team steamrolled the entire league until an injury to Malone halted them. So it's inaccurate to say they failed completely.
3. GP and Malone were in the final seasons of their careers while Boston's big 3 will be in their prime.
4. LA had huge chemistry, ego related problems while Boston will have KG and Allen- two of the best character guys around. There wouldn't even be leadership problems since Allen seems like a guy who would gladly give KG the leader's role.
5. Kobe and Shaq won 3 straight championships in the 3 previous years- Boston's big 3 have never even been to the Finals (which is at bit of a disadvantage to some degree)-but they will be much more motivated to make sacrifices and make a push for ring playing together.

If that LA team got to the Finals in their only year together facing the problems they did- I think its safe to say this Boston team can at least do the same.
If they bring KG it would make the Ray Allen deal a stroke of genius rather than the seemingly pointless move it appeared to be at the time.

I think Boston will have a great chance of getting the best record in the league (they're in the East), especially if they replace their coach.

OakMoses
07-30-2007, 09:24 AM
While I agree that Jefferson will never be as good as Garnett, I also believe that he will become one of the elite PF's in the NBA and stay there for the next 10 years. His numbers after the all-star break last year were as good as Elton Brand's. If Jefferson had been in this year's draft he would have been the unquestionable #3 pick. He'll be far better than any big man in the last draft other than Oden.

It's great for Boston fans to get KG, but I really think that they're a top 4 team in the East without him.

This deal isn't as bad for Minnesota as it looks at first blush.

If McHale can get rid of a contract like Jaric or Hudson in the deal, he winds up with a financially healthy team with four good young starters that should develop together.

Rondo/Foye/Brewer/Jefferson could be a very scary combo in a couple years.

DisplacedKnick
07-30-2007, 09:35 AM
While I agree that Jefferson will never be as good as Garnett, I also believe that he will become one of the elite PF's in the NBA and stay there for the next 10 years. His numbers after the all-star break last year were as good as Elton Brand's. If Jefferson had been in this year's draft he would have been the unquestionable #3 pick. He'll be far better than any big man in the last draft other than Oden.

It's great for Boston fans to get KG, but I really think that they're a top 4 team in the East without him.

This deal isn't as bad for Minnesota as it looks at first blush.

If McHale can get rid of a contract like Jaric or Hudson in the deal, he winds up with a financially healthy team with four good young starters that should develop together.

Rondo/Foye/Brewer/Jefferson could be a very scary combo in a couple years.

I think it's a good deal for both teams. Minn already knows what they are with KG - a poor team with an elite player. They know he can't carry them alone, their salary situation and talent level is such that they can't get anyone without him - moving him's their best shot of getting out of their rut even though it means a very bad year or two.

Boston OTOH has Ray Allen who's getting older, Pierce figures to be at his prime for another 2-3 years - might as well roll the dice and see if this can turn them into a finals team.

LTD
07-30-2007, 09:42 AM
Put me in the camp of Boston is getting the better end of the deal. Maybe Mchale figures that if KG is going to leave anyway, that he may as well make his beloved Celtics a championship contender again. Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but I wonder if Mchale pulls the trigger on this deal if the team wasn't the Boston Celtics?

Tom White
07-30-2007, 10:19 AM
How in the world will Boston swing the salaries? You know KG will want an extended contract if he agrees to go to Boston. Just between Pierce, Allen and Garnett, the Celtics are closing in on luxury tax territory. Now figure what they have to pay at least ten other players and WOW! They are about to make the Knicks look like cheapskates, payroll wise.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 10:19 AM
People are taking my LA thought too literally. I was just talking about chemistry.

Kstat's right, look at their roster, they've got nothing at the 1 and 5. And I mean nothing, no starters, no role players, no benchwarmers, no nothing.

Are they significantly better than us? Of course they are, who isn't? But I wouldn't be counting the rings just yet.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 10:46 AM
I just don't know if Al Jefferson at 24 won't be better than KG at 33. Also, KG is more perimeter-oriented than Jefferson is. Considering the Celtics already have two perimeter players, Jefferson might be a better fit overall. However, I still like this deal in general because KG is KG and I think he'll stay at this level for at least 2 more years, like you said. It's after that that I'm unsure of.

Even if that is true (which I'm not sure iit is, but I'm also big on Al and it will be close), how good will a 32-year old Pierce and a 34-year-old Ray Allen be when Al Jeff is 24?

The C's should be in win-now mode. Let the future figure itself out. They have a disillusioned fanbase. The face of their post-Larry Bird franchise is hoping to get somewhere in the Playoffs before he starts fading. Their GM has to know his job is at least somewhat on the line.

Al Jeff's gonna be good, and already is really...But with Pierce and Ray, scoring won't be a problem anyway. You need KG's defense, rebounding, intimidation, intensity, work ethic and fanatical personality pushing the rest of the players in the Playoffs.


Kstat's right, look at their roster, they've got nothing at the 1 and 5. And I mean nothing, no starters, no role players, no benchwarmers, no nothing.

Ryan Gomes is pretty good. Can score on the block and is a very good rebounder. He had 6 double-doubles (one was a triple-double) and scored over 20 points 9 times. Pretty efficient and can stick jumpers back to 3-pt range. Going into his third year, he'll be a very effective role player.

But yeah, after that, the cupboard is pretty bare. Maybe Big Baby can play.


You guys are way higher on Jefferson tha I am. Jefferson = Brian Winters, KG = Kareem.

KG is of course a Hall of Famer, but he'll still never, ever be as good as Kareem Rush. C'mon, now, you know that

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 11:00 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2954127

Marc Stein with a long article. Note he does say that it centers around Jefferson and Ratliff, but now the talk is Gerald Green and Bassy. Boston would be much better served if they don't give up Rondo.

It also says "multiple future picks". I know a lot of you think draft picks are worthless, but that trio isn't exactly a bunch of spring chickens. When they're gone, the cupboard will be bare.

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 11:09 AM
It's sad McHale can't do any better than that....but at least he got the best prospect available.

The Celtics would become an elite east team with that deal, but like the nets, their big 3 is going to have almost nothing around them. Rondo and Perkins to not scare me as your starting PG and center.

And their bench would get run every night. Big Baby and Leon Powe as your backup front court? Yikes.

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 11:12 AM
People are taking my LA thought too literally. I was just talking about chemistry.

Kstat's right, look at their roster, they've got nothing at the 1 and 5. And I mean nothing, no starters, no role players, no benchwarmers, no nothing.

Are they significantly better than us? Of course they are, who isn't? But I wouldn't be counting the rings just yet.

Rondo's a solid player and can do well as a starter next to Allen, Pierce, and KG. He won't have to score at all. Perkins isn't a huge liability at the 5 considering Boston's in the East. If he can put up 6 ppg and 8 or 9 rpg that'll be fine. The problem tho is their bench. The only bench player they would be left with that excites me at all is Tony Allen and hes coming off major surgery. And for a guy that relies on athleticism, knee surgery can be brutal. I don't even know who their backup would be at the 1. I suppose they could sign Brevin Knight which would make things more interesting. But from 3 to 5 their bench would be just about the worst in the entire league. Gomes is ok. I don't dislike him, but when he's the second guy off your bench you have some depth issues. I already mentioned POwe and Big Baby in the previous post. Big Baby has some potential, but he can't play defense at a NBA level yet.

Slick Pinkham
07-30-2007, 11:48 AM
I'd rather have Perkins than Murphy or Foster, and I'd also rather have Delonte West or Rondo than Tinsley, and then you'd have to compare their 3 all-stars to our one 43% shooting all-star.

Boston would be very tough for the next 3-4 years. And people who expect chemistry problems with KG underappreciate all the things he can do besides scoring.

If Minnesota gets Rondo, Jefferson, Ratliff, and multiple 1st rounders to boot, they aren't doing so bad either.

LoneGranger33
07-30-2007, 11:50 AM
As long as Tony Allen doesn't try to dunk after the whistle, he would be a great backup SG or even a decent backup PG if he worked on his passing. Kendrick Perkins is also a serviceable C, especially since he'll have to do very little except stay on the court and catch the occasional rebound. I think they'd be better off than New Jersey was when the big three first convened (and probably even now). And who knows what they can add after they get KG. I mean, Webber might be interested. Ridnour is on the block. There are some good choices available really.

Hicks
07-30-2007, 11:50 AM
They don't have Delonte West anymore; he's in Seattle.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 11:55 AM
I'd rather have Perkins than Murphy or Foster, and I'd also rather have Delonte West or Rondo than Tinsley, and then you'd have to compare their 3 all-stars to our one 43% shooting all-star.

Boston would be very tough for the next 3-4 years. And people who expect chemistry problems with KG underappreciate all the things he can do besides scoring.

If Minnesota gets Rondo, Jefferson, Ratliff, and multiple 1st rounders to boot, they aren't doing so bad either.
Too bad the Celtics won't have Rondo or West (in Seattle) and that Perkins makes Foster look like Kobe Bryant offensively. Perkins is simply a big body. I don't even know if he's a better rebounder than Murphy. He's just bigger. Gomes is very solid, actually. And very underrated, which is why I suspect nobody mentions him in trade talks. I'm sure that's just the way Boston likes it. Gomes is a better rebounder and defender than Perk.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 12:02 PM
That said, I'm not feeling this as far as Boston is concerned. Reminds me of when LA brought in Malone and Payton. Chemistry goes a long way. Coaching does too.
That's what comes to mind immediately.....but Allen/Pierce/KG don't have as big egos as Shaq/Kobe has that has to be massaged and cared for.

At worst...the Cs won't make it to the NBA finals....but it would make Celtics Ball relevant again...and it would give the Celtics fans something to watch.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 12:06 PM
Being in Boston, I'm excited for this to happen but from the Celtics view, I would be concerned not with the lack of depth but also with the horrible, horrible coach.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 12:07 PM
I might have missed it, but why are we expecting something on the JO trade to happen this week???
I was going on DD00's theory that IF a trade were to happen and Crittenton was supposed to be included in any deal.....it would happen 1 month AFTER he was signed by the Lakers...which ( and DD00 can correct me ) would be on August 3rd ( this week ).

Shade
07-30-2007, 12:21 PM
Boston should win the East with that 3-headed monster.

Wu-Gambino
07-30-2007, 12:21 PM
Honestly, this is the Eastern conference we are talking about. Cleveland made it to the finals with LeBron and who else (Z? Boobie? Larry Hughes?). If Boston pulls this, and picks up a semi decent PG, they can make the conference finals and probably the NBA finals.

Another point, wasn't the Laker "four hall of fame starters" season occurring during the Kobe Bryant Colorado fiasco?

Will Galen
07-30-2007, 12:36 PM
I might have missed it, but why are we expecting something on the JO trade to happen this week???

Expecting is the wrong word. Rather something could happen if the Pacers have decided to do a deal with the Laker's that includes Crittenton, as Cable pointed out.

Something could happen as soon as Thursday since that is when 30 days are up. We have another couple months though so I don't expect anything to happen unless one of the teams has agreed to the others offer.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 12:45 PM
I was going on DD00's theory that IF a trade were to happen and Crittenton was supposed to be included in any deal.....it would happen 1 month AFTER he was signed by the Lakers...which ( and DD00 can correct me ) would be on August 3rd ( this week ).

Also, I think Bball had 8/3 in the Donnie says, "We're happy with where we're at going into next season" poll.

Y2J
07-30-2007, 12:50 PM
Boston still has their full MLE I believe. There's a few decent players left out there. They could also swing a deal for a point guard. I'm sure Houston would have no problem dealing them either Mike James or Rafer Alston for Perkins or Gomes. As for a big man, their monster trio can get 70 a night easily, so all they need out of their big man is some rebounding and defense and they'll be fine.

Naptown_Seth
07-30-2007, 01:03 PM
It also says "multiple future picks". I know a lot of you think draft picks are worthless, but that trio isn't exactly a bunch of spring chickens. When they're gone, the cupboard will be bare.
But you're forgetting that Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parrish will be walking through the door by then.




:eyebrow2: Wait, I don't think I got that exactly right...

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 01:09 PM
But you're forgetting that Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parrish will be walking through the door by then.




:eyebrow2: Wait, I don't think I got that exactly right...


However, Danny Ainge is walking through that door.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 01:11 PM
However, Danny Ainge is walking through that door.
Yeah...that's not a good thing.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 01:13 PM
Boston still has their full MLE I believe. There's a few decent players left out there. They could also swing a deal for a point guard. I'm sure Houston would have no problem dealing them either Mike James or Rafer Alston for Perkins or Gomes. As for a big man, their monster trio can get 70 a night easily, so all they need out of their big man is some rebounding and defense and they'll be fine.
The Cs can probably get Alston ( I thought the Rockets traded for James...why move him if you just acquired him ? )....but given that he is more of a shoot-first PG....I don't think that he would be very effective in that lineup. With an offensive lineup that includes 3 players that should be touching the ball for the majority of the game....they don't need anything more then a distributor and/or defensive minded PG that can periodically make the open shot while doing nothing more then defend the PG.

If anything...Delonte West would have been a good fit...and maybe even with their MLE.....they can get Marcus Banks or even Earl Watson. The only sore spot maybe the Center position. From what I have read about Kedrick Perkins...he maybe a very solid fit at the Center spot to play next to KG since he's more of a defender/Rebounder/shotblocking guy....but I'm not sure about his health and all. But after Perkins...all they have would be undersized PF that play in the post and therefore would be very thin on the bench.

Slick Pinkham
07-30-2007, 01:13 PM
yeah I forgot West went to Seattle...

They obviously need Alston or another readily available PG (J Jack?). But Perkins when he stays healthy (that has been a problem) can be a good defensive-minded guy who doesn't need shots to be a contributor.

blanket
07-30-2007, 01:23 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/celtics/?p=117


Sources saying Garnett deal is done
Posted by Steve Bulpett at 12:06 pm

Sources this morning are confirming that the Celtics’ deal for Kevin Garnett is essentially completed.

One involved source said the final package will have the Celts sending Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a No. 1 pick to Minnesota to acquire Garnett.

Further word is that the Celts and Garnett have reached an agreement in principle on a contract extension. You may recall a report here that Danny Ainge would not do the deal without such a guarantee of Garnett’s presence, and it appears now that the perennial All-Star is willing to forego the opt-out in his current deal for next summer and cast his lot with Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and the Celtics.

Naptown_Seth
07-30-2007, 01:30 PM
And their bench would get run every night. Big Baby and Leon Powe as your backup front court? Yikes.
Not only that, but being so weak on depth they would have to dodge injury issues with voodoo and clovers. "KG out for 2 weeks" would sound a lot like "5 game losing streak".


BTW with all the LA comparison what about this aspect: Shaq/Kobe had WON a title with Fox/Horry/Fisher as their other main players, with guys like Madsen getting PT, even with Isiah Rider on the roster for part of the year.

Karl had been to the Finals with Stockton and a similar group of modest talents. Payton had gone with Kemp, but it did take Detlef, Perkins and Hawkins to get there, he was more typically stuck at the 2nd round level.

Still all 4 main guys had a strong history of winning while being THE man on their teams.

KG - 1 WCF loss, several years out of the playoffs

Allen - many losing or 500 seasons, a few brief flashes into the mid-playoffs when paired with 1-2 other players...including a blah first half in 02-03 while paired with Payton (and Redd, Cassell and Tim Thomas)

Pierce - a few flashes himself but generally the leader of a 500 club at best

Their resumes as take-over, lead to the Finals type of guys is nowhere near what the resumes of the Lakers 4 was at the time. The Nets comparison is a lot more accurate, except that Kidd and Jefferson were able to get the the Finals together (going through Pierce no less). It's no-leadership Vince that joined on and has seen them meander around the East with only marginal impact.

As for KG in the East, period. Well his Wolves were better vs the East than the West. They got all the way up to 14-16 vs the East, nearly 500. Look out Pistons and Bulls, there's a new sheriff in town and he's guarding the #7 seed like a hawk.

bulldog
07-30-2007, 01:30 PM
I hope this trade goes down.

A) Celtics become very exciting to watch.
B) This becomes a very exciting week for us, with KG off the market for LA and Javaris becoming available on Aug 3.

They will be thin, but I think KG/Allen/Pierce is one of the few three superstar combinations you can put together that seems to actually work in terms of them doing different things and feeding off each other.

If they gave up all the players in blanket's post, I still think its a good deal, they'll just have to be aggressive in filling out the rest of their team.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 01:39 PM
This is the best deal Minnesota could get for KG. fantastic job on their part. I'm very high on Green and Al Jefferson, of course, but if you look at what they get from this trade, they just added some nice pieces.

Foye, Green, Brewer, Jefferson is a great foursome. Then you add guys like Gomes and Smith. Who knows, maybe Bassy and the future pick are solid too. Also, they are in good cap shape.

Boston did manage to hold onto Rondo, though. Very nice.

Slick Pinkham
07-30-2007, 01:49 PM
Gomes is a better backup big man than Rondo is a PG, but I guess they were not confident of finding a PG elsewhere.

31andonly
07-30-2007, 02:04 PM
This would be a real good trade for the Wolves.
Getting Jefferson, Gomes, G.Green AND a Firstroundpick is a very very big package.
Plus they already have McCants, Foye and Craig Smith (high potential imo).
Give them 2 or 3 years of playing together and the Wolves will have something to say in the West.

Unclebuck
07-30-2007, 02:09 PM
Who is going to play point guard for the Celtics.

Slick Pinkham
07-30-2007, 02:12 PM
Who is going to play point guard for the Celtics.

Rondo stays, according to the Boston Herald. I guess his backup is Allen Ray.

They should still be trying to get Alston, Jack, or somebody else.

31andonly
07-30-2007, 02:13 PM
Well, Allan Ray is out..

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 02:19 PM
http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/celtics/?p=117

McHale is taking Ainge to the cleaners. They have ZERO bench if they give up Gomes ZERO.

Will Galen
07-30-2007, 02:21 PM
Just a thought. With the Celtics doing this, New Jersey might be interested in JO again.

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 02:22 PM
Who is going to play point guard for the Celtics.

Rondo is solid enough to get the job done. If they add Brevin Knight through the MLE then PG is just about the least of their worries. They have no one to back up the 3 if they give up Gomes. Losing Pierce, Allen, or KG for any significant period of time would spell a trip to lotto land for the Celts. This is a big risk, big reward move on their part.

However am I the only that thinks its dumb for them to have made the Allen trade now? I thought the Allen move was pretty much hey we can't get KG might as well settle. If they hadn't made that deal they would still have West and whoever they picked up at number 5 to either include in the deal instead of Jefferson or to use them around Pierce and KG.
Personally I'd rather Pierce, KG, Number 5, and West than Pierce, KG, Allen.

Hicks
07-30-2007, 02:24 PM
Wow. It really sounds like it might happen.

As for depth concerns, I agree somewhat, but then again who remembers the Lakers' backup 2 and 5 from 2000-2004? Who cares? The only serious concern is PG. Of course now all they need is someone who can play defense at that position; they have scoring and distributing from their Trio.

Oneal07
07-30-2007, 02:25 PM
These Boston guys are desperate for each other. . .Maybe Larry Bird should get into the talks too!

As far as Boston goes with getting KG. . .The Atlantic might get 3 teams in playoffs next year, Has that ever happened before?

Another thing. . Boston airs their games in HD, so watching that squad would be even better :)

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 02:29 PM
Wow. It really sounds like it might happen.

As for depth concerns, I agree somewhat, but then again who remembers the Lakers' backup 2 and 5 from 2000-2004? Who cares? The only serious concern is PG. Of course now all they need is someone who can play defense at that position; they have scoring and distributing from their Trio.

Are any of these guys as dominant as Shaq and Kobe were at their positions though? KG is probably the most likely one to be considered dominant, but hes spent less time in the playoffs than Allen or PIerce. In all reality, KG is only slightly better than guys like Elton Brand and Jermaine O'Neal.

I don't see how PG can be a serious concern especially if they only need defense at that position. Rondo is an unbelieveably talented defender.

Shade
07-30-2007, 02:29 PM
Who is going to play point guard for the Celtics.

Jamaal Tinsley? :innocent:

rexnom
07-30-2007, 02:30 PM
Wow. It really sounds like it might happen.

As for depth concerns, I agree somewhat, but then again who remembers the Lakers' backup 2 and 5 from 2000-2004? Who cares? The only serious concern is PG. Of course now all they need is someone who can play defense at that position; they have scoring and distributing from their Trio.
Rondo does a few things very well. He has amazing hands and he's fast (good defender). He's also a solid rebounder and a decent point. That's all that they'll need. If the big 3 can be healthy come playoff time then this is a very dangerous team. You HAVE to worry about these guys staying on the court for that long, however.

Shade
07-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Rondo is a good PG for the kind of game the C's will be playing. KG/Ray/PP should be taking 90% of the shots anyway. All Rondo and Perkins need to do is play solid defense and move the ball.

If one of the big three goes down to injury, though, Boston is in a TON of trouble.

If not, they are conference championship contenders.

I can already smell Jay's tears.

purdue101
07-30-2007, 02:40 PM
the celts board on realgm.com is saying that boston radio WEII is claiming Al is NOT part of the deal.

McHale should be fired if he doesn't get Jefferson out of this deal.

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 02:44 PM
the celts board on realgm.com is saying that boston radio WEII is claiming Al is NOT part of the deal.

McHale should be fired if he doesn't get Jefferson out of this deal.

Wow if they keep Jefferson somehow that changes things quite a bit.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 02:44 PM
Yeah...I don't believe for a second that they are keeping Jefferson.

Shade
07-30-2007, 02:46 PM
Wait, the Celtics still have Tony Allen, don't they? He was playing pretty well until that nasty injury.

Shade
07-30-2007, 02:48 PM
the celts board on realgm.com is saying that boston radio WEII is claiming Al is NOT part of the deal.

McHale should be fired if he doesn't get Jefferson out of this deal.

There's no way that could be true.

Besides, how would Boston be able to afford extending him?

PR07
07-30-2007, 02:49 PM
The Celts still have the MLE at his disposal:

-James Posey
-Matt Barnes
-Brevin Knight
-Chris Webber

could all be used to fill holes after this trade...

CableKC
07-30-2007, 02:49 PM
Yeah...I don't believe for a second that they are keeping Jefferson.
I agree...just like the Pacers not getting Bynum in any potential Laker deal...there would be no reason for them to do it.

count55
07-30-2007, 02:51 PM
From Shyra Springer on Boston.com:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/


Al Jefferson is back in the trade talks between the Celtics and Timberwolves.

As the trade currently stands, the Celtics would send Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves for Kevin Garnett.


This also has the earlier report where Jefferson was not included.

As a personal note, if Al was not included, McHale should be burned at the stake.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 02:51 PM
So, let's see if I can figure this out.

Boston

Rondo/???
Ray Allen/Tony Allen/Pruitt
Pierce/Scalabrine
Garnett/Powe/Wallace
Perkins/Davis

Minnesota

Foye/Jaric/Hudson/Telfair
Davis/Hassell/McCants
Brewer/Green/Gomes
Jefferson/Howard
Ratliff/Blount/Madsen

And their future is Foye, Brewer, Green, and Jefferson. Yeah, I don't think we can argue that Minny's in worse shape than we are anymore.

count55
07-30-2007, 02:56 PM
However, a deal like this...a top young prospect (Jefferson), two good young players (Green & Gomes), $13 mill+ worth of expiring contracts (Ratliff & Telfair) AND two 1st round picks...certainly puts value into perspective. That's a much more attractive package than Odom & Bynum or even Odom, Bynum & a #1.

If Minny can close the deal on something like that (haven't checked the salaries), then the Pacers aren't far off in their demands of Odom & Bynum for JO.

Trader Joe
07-30-2007, 03:00 PM
So, let's see if I can figure this out.

Boston

Rondo/???
Ray Allen/Tony Allen/Pruitt
Pierce/Scalabrine
Garnett/Powe/Wallace
Perkins/Davis



Thats the crappiest bench in the entire league.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 03:01 PM
As the trade currently stands, the Celtics would send Jefferson, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves for Kevin Garnett.

That's a lot to give up for one player. And I don't even think Green will ever be particularly good.

I can't believe there would actually be two picks involved on top of the rest.

rexnom
07-30-2007, 03:04 PM
Tony Allen is actually really solid. I forgot about him. He'll be the sixth man...hehe...

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 03:05 PM
If I'm Ainge, I'm going hard after Brevin Knight. Not only would he be a good fit, he's the only pass-first point there is left on the market. They certainly don't have any assets left to trade. There's sure not much available as far as center's go, though. Maybe try and get PJ Brown? :dunno:

Tom White
07-30-2007, 03:14 PM
If Minny can close the deal on something like that (haven't checked the salaries), then the Pacers aren't far off in their demands of Odom & Bynum for JO.

If the Pacers and Lakers are indeed talking, you better believe DW will use that line of thought as reinforcement.

Shade
07-30-2007, 03:44 PM
From Shyra Springer on Boston.com:

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/



This also has the earlier report where Jefferson was not included.

As a personal note, if Al was not included, McHale should be burned at the stake.

Shyra was lying. Al was never OUT of the deal. She just wanted to cause a stir.

oneofthesedays
07-30-2007, 03:49 PM
I think the C's are giving way too much up just to get KG. They have at best a 3-4 year window to win championships, which is NOT guaranteed by any means. They are leaving the cupboard bare and will go back to the gutter after that trio is gone.

And who knows how those guys will even gel together. We already know KG does not want to go to Boston, the allure of an instant title shot is the only thing making him pause for consideration.

31andonly
07-30-2007, 03:57 PM
I think the C's are giving way too much up just to get KG. They have at best a 3-4 year window to win championships, which is NOT guaranteed by any means. They are leaving the cupboard bare and will go back to the gutter after that trio is gone.

And who knows how those guys will even gel together. We already know KG does not want to go to Boston, the allure of an instant title shot is the only thing making him pause for consideration.

I absolutely agree, this is WAY too much for one player, be it Garnett or Nowitzki or whoever!
If they make the deal, the C's will have the worst team in let's say 4 years..for the next let's say 10 years.

There is no future, no bench, no young talent, no picks, nothing..

Shade
07-30-2007, 03:57 PM
I think the C's are giving way too much up just to get KG. They have at best a 3-4 year window to win championships, which is NOT guaranteed by any means. They are leaving the cupboard bare and will go back to the gutter after that trio is gone.

And who knows how those guys will even gel together. We already know KG does not want to go to Boston, the allure of an instant title shot is the only thing making him pause for consideration.

Having PP and RA on the team means they need to make a push to win now anyway.

When the trio is done, Boston gains ~ $60 mil to play with in the FA market.

This is a good deal for both teams, IMO.

denyfizle
07-30-2007, 04:07 PM
Stupid move by Boston, Jefferson can put up better numbers than KG any night. This one's gonna come back and haunt them for sure.

stupid move? if this goes down, the Celtics will be the talk of the league and Ainge stays as GM. if it doesn't, the Celtics will continue lingering in obscurity and Ainge's days as GM are numbered.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 04:08 PM
I think the C's are giving way too much up just to get KG. They have at best a 3-4 year window to win championships, which is NOT guaranteed by any means. They are leaving the cupboard bare and will go back to the gutter after that trio is gone.


I absolutely agree, this is WAY too much for one player, be it Garnett or Nowitzki or whoever!
If they make the deal, the C's will have the worst team in let's say 4 years..for the next let's say 10 years.

There is no future, no bench, no young talent, no picks, nothing..

They've already been arguably one of the worst teams in the NBA for the past decade and a half. It's not exactly like their risking the crown jewels or nothing. Hoping Al Jeff and Gerald Green work out before Pierce/Ray Allen break down is not sure fire plan to the top either.


<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="92%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>2006-07 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2007.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2007.html)</TD><TD align=middle>24-58</TD><TD>5th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>2005-06 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2006.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html)</TD><TD align=middle>33-49</TD><TD>3rd, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>2004-05 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2005.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html)</TD><TD align=middle>45-37</TD><TD>1st, Atlantic Division </TD><TD>Lost East Conf 1st Rd</TD></TR><TR><TD>2003-04 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2004.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2004.html)</TD><TD align=middle>36-46</TD><TD>4th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD>Lost East Conf 1st Rd</TD></TR><TR><TD>2002-03 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2003.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003.html)</TD><TD align=middle>44-38</TD><TD>3rd, Atlantic Division </TD><TD>Lost East Conf Semis</TD></TR><TR><TD>2001-02 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2002.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002.html)</TD><TD align=middle>49-33</TD><TD>2nd, Atlantic Division </TD><TD>Lost East Conf Finals</TD></TR><TR><TD>2000-01 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2001.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2001.html)</TD><TD align=middle>36-46</TD><TD>5th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>1999-00 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2000.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2000.html)</TD><TD align=middle>35-47</TD><TD>5th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>1998-99 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1999.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1999.html)</TD><TD align=middle>19-31</TD><TD>5th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>1997-98 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1998.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1998.html)</TD><TD align=middle>36-46</TD><TD>6th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>1996-97 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1997.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1997.html)</TD><TD align=middle>15-67</TD><TD>7th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>1995-96 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1996.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996.html)</TD><TD align=middle>33-49</TD><TD>5th, Atlantic Division </TD><TD></TD></TR><TR><TD>1994-95 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1995.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1995.html)</TD><TD align=middle>35-47</TD><TD>3rd, Atlantic Division </TD><TD>Lost East Conf 1st Rd</TD></TR><TR><TD>1993-94 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1994.html)</TD><TD>NBA (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1994.html)</TD><TD align=middle>32-50</TD><TD>5th, Atlantic Division </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

count55
07-30-2007, 04:17 PM
Steve Bulpett reporting that the deal is "essentially complete"

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/celtics/?p=117


One involved source said the final package will have the Celts sending Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a No. 1 pick to Minnesota to acquire Garnett.



So, pretty much the same deal, but only one #1...could be Minny's conditional pick that Boston's holding.

DgR
07-30-2007, 04:19 PM
Rondo is solid enough to get the job done. If they add Brevin Knight through the MLE then PG is just about the least of their worries. They have no one to back up the 3 if they give up Gomes. Losing Pierce, Allen, or KG for any significant period of time would spell a trip to lotto land for the Celts. This is a big risk, big reward move on their part.

However am I the only that thinks its dumb for them to have made the Allen trade now? I thought the Allen move was pretty much hey we can't get KG might as well settle. If they hadn't made that deal they would still have West and whoever they picked up at number 5 to either include in the deal instead of Jefferson or to use them around Pierce and KG.
Personally I'd rather Pierce, KG, Number 5, and West than Pierce, KG, Allen.

If they hadn't made that deal- KG wouldn't have agreed to go there. Like he said no on draft day. Right now he sees a window for a championship.

Sollozzo
07-30-2007, 04:31 PM
Allen - many losing or 500 seasons, a few brief flashes into the mid-playoffs when paired with 1-2 other players...including a blah first half in 02-03 while paired with Payton (and Redd, Cassell and Tim Thomas)
.


Allen was never paired with Payton, Allen was traded FOR Payton.

Sollozzo
07-30-2007, 04:37 PM
It's official, according to sportsline.

http://sportsline.com/






BREAKING NEWS
T-Wolves agree to trade K.G. to Celtics
Kevin Garnett is going to Boston after the T-Wolves and Celtics agree to a trade Monday, according to a Celtics official.

Slick Pinkham
07-30-2007, 04:43 PM
wow- the C's keep Rondo and keep Gomes:

http://sportsline.com/nba/story/10275030


BOSTON -- Kevin Garnett is leaving Minnesota after the Boston Celtics agreed to acquire the All-Star forward in a multiplayer trade with the Timberwolves, a Celtics official told the Associated Press on Monday.

Among the players who could be headed to Minnesota are forward Al Jefferson, guard Sebastian Telfair, swingman Gerald Green and center Theo Ratliff, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal had not been completed.

The official also said the Timberwolves would get at least one draft choice.

DgR
07-30-2007, 04:45 PM
However, a deal like this...a top young prospect (Jefferson), two good young players (Green & Gomes), $13 mill+ worth of expiring contracts (Ratliff & Telfair) AND two 1st round picks...certainly puts value into perspective. That's a much more attractive package than Odom & Bynum or even Odom, Bynum & a #1.

If Minny can close the deal on something like that (haven't checked the salaries), then the Pacers aren't far off in their demands of Odom & Bynum for JO.

I dont agree.
The BOS-MINN trade serves a purpose for both teams: Minny going for young prospects and salary relief and Boston trying to build a contender- that's why they're trying to keep Rondo as well.

The Bynum& LO trade would not go down because- while we get what we want: a young talent and and a semi All star (who we can serve a purpose both as a member of the team or trade asset) while LA would achieve nothing: Kobe& JO is not enough to compete in the west so even though the trade is fair (to me) in terms of the value of the players- it doesn't bring LA closer to their goal of competing now and therefore they won't agree to the deal

indyblue47
07-30-2007, 04:56 PM
BOSTON -- Kevin Garnett is leaving Minnesota after the Boston Celtics agreed to acquire the All-Star forward in a multiplayer trade with the Timberwolves, a Celtics official told the Associated Press on Monday.

Among the players who could be headed to Minnesota are forward Al Jefferson, guard Sebastian Telfair, swingman Gerald Green and center Theo Ratliff, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal had not been completed.

The official also said the Timberwolves would get at least one draft choice.

I'd have to agree with DGR on this one. JO to LA, and then compare what's coming back. Put AB in place of AJ, JC in place of GG, and Kwame in place of Theo. That's 3 of the 4 pieces compared to the Celtics position. Telfair being the odd man out in our position. Now LA throwing in a future #1, and the difference in KG and JO is Telfair...not bad!!

And before everyone goes off on me about the difference between AJ and Bynum, remember it's our FO that is so high on AB.

Heck, I'm a long-time Pacer fan and I could live with the above scenario, because I want the P's to get out from under that huge contract and have more than the MLE to sign a free agent.

docpaul
07-30-2007, 04:56 PM
wow- the C's keep Rondo and keep Gomes:

http://sportsline.com/nba/story/10275030


BOSTON -- Kevin Garnett is leaving Minnesota after the Boston Celtics agreed to acquire the All-Star forward in a multiplayer trade with the Timberwolves, a Celtics official told the Associated Press on Monday.

Among the players who could be headed to Minnesota are forward Al Jefferson, guard Sebastian Telfair, swingman Gerald Green and center Theo Ratliff, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the deal had not been completed.

The official also said the Timberwolves would get at least one draft choice.


I don't know about you all, but today's blockbuster has gotten me thinking. It's clear that Boston wants to compete, and they were looking for players. One wonders what Boston would have given us if JO were that player instead of KG? :) Wonder if Bird ever had these discussions with Boston?

Hrmph.

Lakers, it's now your move. :)

FrenchConnection
07-30-2007, 04:59 PM
What's funny is to go over to the Lakers boards and watch them choke on their own vomit. They really thought that KG would demand a trade to LA. They are also trying to say that Bynum is better than Jefferson. It really is funny, I promise.

DgR
07-30-2007, 05:01 PM
I don't know about you all, but today's blockbuster has gotten me thinking. It's clear that Boston wants to compete, and they were looking for players. One wonders what Boston would have given us if JO were that player instead of KG? :) Wonder if Bird ever had these discussions with Boston?

Hrmph.

Lakers, it's now your move. :)

Boston- like LA probably waited for the final word from KG before they were going to settle for JO......:(

docpaul
07-30-2007, 05:04 PM
Boston- like LA probably waited for the final word from KG before they were going to settle for JO......:(

...and you can't blame them. For better or worse, Garnett is a better commodity. More marketable, more of a leader, etc. Talent-wise, though, JO is at least in the same league, and has some extra years on his career.

count55
07-30-2007, 05:05 PM
I dont agree.
The BOS-MINN trade serves a purpose for both teams: Minny going for young prospects and salary relief and Boston trying to build a contender- that's why they're trying to keep Rondo as well.

The Bynum& LO trade would not go down because- while we get what we want: a young talent and and a semi All star (who we can serve a purpose both as a member of the team or trade asset) while LA would achieve nothing: Kobe& JO is not enough to compete in the west so even though the trade is fair (to me) in terms of the value of the players- it doesn't bring LA closer to their goal of competing now and therefore they won't agree to the deal

I was not necessarily saying that they'd do the deal, but it would bring them closer to understanding what it's going to cost to compete in the short term. As I've said in another post, they've been grossly overvaluing Odom & Bynum all summer long. Now, they're faced with the realization that they aren't worth as much as they thought.

The Celtic package is much better than the packages the Lakers have been throwing around for big names. With that reality check, they're now facing the very ugly apparent truth that they simply don't have the assets required to attract the talent to turn themselves into an immediate contender around Kobe. It's a very short leap from there to the realization that, unless Bynum goes from giving them absolutely nothing to being a stud in a very short period of time, they won't be contenders with Kobe for a very long time, if ever.

With the added conviction in our valuation of JO this trade would give, it makes it extremely unlikely that we would move off of our reported position. Leaving them to choose between standing pat and banking on Bynum, or making the last big move left: Odom & Bynum for JO, then taking Brown's expiring along with Farmar or Crittenton or draft picks to try to pick up that third wheel. They've already picked up a nice contributor in Derek Fisher.

With a big-time prospect that's actually posted some realtime numbers like Jefferson, two good solid prospects in Green and Gomes, picks & expirings, I'm just pleased to see somebody not sell ridiculously low on a big name player. I'm hopeful that it brings some sanity back to the market.

On the whole, the odds of any JO deal are long. However, if Garnett is off the market, we're more likely to see movement from any potential suitors.

Frank Slade
07-30-2007, 05:05 PM
What's funny is to go over to the Lakers boards and watch them choke on their own vomit. They really thought that KG would demand a trade to LA. They are also trying to say that Bynum is better than Jefferson. It really is funny, I promise.

Now to see if KG was genuinely one of the last big domino's to fall before the season, or just really the start of several more to come, now that he is off
the board.

:o

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 05:05 PM
It's official....

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10275030

Napptown
07-30-2007, 05:06 PM
http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NBA&id=354

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=474 border=0><TBODY><TR height=30><TD></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD id=tdNews style="BACKGROUND: #e7e3e7; PADDING-BOTTOM: 6px" vAlign=top><TABLE class=s_playerNewsTable id=Table1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=11>http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif</TD><TD style="BACKGROUND: #0d3865" width=10>http://www.rotoworld.com/images/left_corner_player_news.gif</TD><TD class=s_playerNewsTitle style="BACKGROUND: #0d3865" width=430><TABLE class=s_playerNewsTitle cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD align=left width=33>http://www.rotoworld.com/images/teamlogos/NBA_sm/MIN.gif </TD><TD align=left> Kevin Garnett (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NBA&id=354)-F- Timberwolves (http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=NBA&majteam=MIN)</TD><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 10px" align=right>Jul. 30 - 4:58 pm et</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TD style="BACKGROUND: #0d3865" width=14>http://www.rotoworld.com/images/right_corner_player_news.gif</TD><TD width=6>http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD>http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif</TD><TD class=s_playerNewsLeftBorder>http://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif</TD><TD class=s_playerNewsText>According to a Celtics official, Kevin Garnett has been traded to Boston.
Among the players thought to be headed to Minnesota are forward Al Jefferson, guard Sebastian Telfair, swingman Gerald Green and center Theo Ratliff, said the official. He also said the Timberwolves would get at least one draft choice. It had been reported throughout the day that Ryan Gomes and two No. 1 draft choices would be included in the deal, but as of now, it sounds like Gomes is staying with the Celtics. Details of the trade are still being worked out and it is not official, but the source said that none of those issues should keep the Celtics from acquiring Garnett, who is currently on a cruise vacation. However, there could be a change in the players going to Minnesota. There was a chance that a conference call announcing the trade would be held Monday, the official said.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Wu-Gambino
07-30-2007, 05:13 PM
Now on Yahoo:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Agi6stN8bKSeOlQJuo5yd8y8vLYF?slug=ap-celtics-garnetttrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

Wow.

Frank Slade
07-30-2007, 05:15 PM
I wonder when it will be officially official by the official office of officiating.

DgR
07-30-2007, 05:19 PM
I was not necessarily saying that they'd do the deal, but it would bring them closer to understanding what it's going to cost to compete in the short term. As I've said in another post, they've been grossly overvaluing Odom & Bynum all summer long. Now, they're faced with the realization that they aren't worth as much as they thought.

The Celtic package is much better than the packages the Lakers have been throwing around for big names. With that reality check, they're now facing the very ugly apparent truth that they simply don't have the assets required to attract the talent to turn themselves into an immediate contender around Kobe. It's a very short leap from there to the realization that, unless Bynum goes from giving them absolutely nothing to being a stud in a very short period of time, they won't be contenders with Kobe for a very long time, if ever.

With the added conviction in our valuation of JO this trade would give, it makes it extremely unlikely that we would move off of our reported position. Leaving them to choose between standing pat and banking on Bynum, or making the last big move left: Odom & Bynum for JO, then taking Brown's expiring along with Farmar or Crittenton or draft picks to try to pick up that third wheel. They've already picked up a nice contributor in Derek Fisher.

With a big-time prospect that's actually posted some realtime numbers like Jefferson, two good solid prospects in Green and Gomes, picks & expirings, I'm just pleased to see somebody not sell ridiculously low on a big name player. I'm hopeful that it brings some sanity back to the market.

On the whole, the odds of any JO deal are long. However, if Garnett is off the market, we're more likely to see movement from any potential suitors.

They haven't nessecarily overated them. It's just that they have no point of making the trade unless LO stays- otherwise they'll s*ck just the same... I dont think LA pulls the triger on such a deal.

But on the other hand lets talk about that Bynum, Critt, Brown+ Mckey. In that case I agree with you 100%!! We will have more levarage and could get more draft picks or/and any other worthy assets from LA in that deal. It's a good thing LA waited for the KG trade...

:devil: :devil: :devil:

Gyron
07-30-2007, 05:21 PM
Only when the official time strikes the official time of the trade on the official day of official notification of the official trade. And thats after the official league officials give their official approval of the official deal.

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 05:23 PM
Kobe Bryant/Jermaine O'Neal/ Luke Walton vs KG/PP/Ray Tune in on June 6 2008 to see once gloried rivals meet again with a different fashion...

Hicks
07-30-2007, 05:24 PM
Kobe Bryant/Jermaine O'Neal/ Luke Walton vs KG/PP/Ray Tune in on June 6 2008 to see once gloried rivals meet again with a different fashion...

You hope. :-p

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 05:25 PM
Considering all the "official" reports say, "among the players who could be going", and "at least one draft pick", I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Gomes and the 2nd #1 are still included. IOW, nobody knows what the deal really is.

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 05:28 PM
You hope.

Hope would be leaving Odom on the roster. but i suggested Odom/bynum to the Pacers.

at this point I'm really certain JO talks will heat up now... Dr. Buss is gonna be really angry... thats what I'm hoping.

docpaul
07-30-2007, 05:31 PM
Another interesting subplot for the Wolves and whenever there's one of these many-for-one trades: who leaves the roster to make space for all these new players:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

13 players on their roster. Likely will be at least one buy-out, but that doesn't take care of business yet. More trades or cuts almost an inevitability.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 05:33 PM
Only when the official time strikes the official time of the trade on the official day of official notification of the official trade. And thats after the official league officials give their official approval of the official deal.

Given the status of KG's contract, I believe the department of redundancy department must also sign off before an official deal becomes official.

count55
07-30-2007, 05:36 PM
They haven't nessecarily overated them. It's just that they have no point of making the trade unless LO stays- otherwise they'll s*ck just the same... I dont think LA pulls the triger on such a deal.

But on the other hand lets talk about that Bynum, Critt, Brown+ Mckey. In that case I agree with you 100%!! We will have more levarage and could get more draft picks or/and any other worthy assets from LA in that deal. It's a good thing LA waited for the KG trade...

:devil: :devil: :devil:

That looks like a couple of expirings and a whole lotta wishin'. Bynum has yet to show even as much as Ike Diogu has shown, yet people are all agog over him. Crittenton has a couple of decent summer league performances under his belt, but not much more. Plus, there are serious questions as to whether he's really a point guard or just another in a long line of combo guards to come to the NBA.

That deal is better financially than the GS trade, but worse from a talent perspective.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 05:38 PM
Another interesting subplot for the Wolves and whenever there's one of these many-for-one trades: who leaves the roster to make space for all these new players:

http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

13 players on their roster. Likely will be at least one buy-out, but that doesn't take care of business yet. More trades or cuts almost an inevitability.

They've got until the season starts. I'm sure they'll try and trade at least one of their PGs.

Pacersin2033
07-30-2007, 05:40 PM
Well thats one more team better than us. Jesus Larry do something, I mean the law of averages would seem to suggest that eventually one of your moves works out.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 05:44 PM
Well thats one more team better than us. Jesus Larry do something, I mean the law of averages would seem to suggest that eventually one of your moves works out.

Unfortunately, I think TPTB's decisions are now being guided by (Troy) Murphy's law: They will trade for worse talent at a higher price in any given situation, if you give them a chance.

denyfizle
07-30-2007, 05:56 PM
i have a feeling we are somewhat going to be involved in this trade... actually it's more of wishful thinking hehehe...

Oneal07
07-30-2007, 05:57 PM
Yup it's official. . .I'm shocked. SHOCKED I TELL YA

Oneal07
07-30-2007, 05:57 PM
i have a feeling we are somewhat going to be involved in this trade... actually it's more of wishful thinking hehehe...

Yeah the Boston boys are lovin each other off right nw lol

aero
07-30-2007, 05:59 PM
Boston has KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen...damn...we're screwed lol

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 06:00 PM
Danny Ainge and McHale reportedly in a basement naked!!!

Kstat
07-30-2007, 06:07 PM
Glad to see this. The East finally has a legit team in the Atlantic division.

...and Toronto's automatic ticket to the playoffs just got revoked. They're going to have to work for it now.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 06:09 PM
What's funny is to go over to the Lakers boards and watch them choke on their own vomit. They really thought that KG would demand a trade to LA. They are also trying to say that Bynum is better than Jefferson. It really is funny, I promise.
I will admit that on the surface...at least to the Laker fans...a KG to Laker deal is somewhat comprable to a KG to Celtics deal.

Both deals involve huge Expiring Contracts:

Celtics - Ratliff ( 11mil )

compared to

Lakers - Kwame ( 9 mil ) + MoEvans ( 1.5 mil )

Both deal have young players with potential in return:

Celtics - Green

compared to

Lakers - Farmar or ( more then likely ) Crittenton

Both deals have Top Prospects in return:

Celtics - AlJeff

compared to

Lakers - Bynum

I'm guessing that draft picks wouldn't have been too much of an issue. On top of that....any deal that involved the Lakers would have to have involved Odom....a player that the TWolves clearly did not want for salarycap reasons and for rebuilding purposes.

The difference for Laker fans that many of them cannot let go of is they feel that Bynum has the potential to be a 20/10 offensive Center of the future....despite AlJeff already proving that he could be a very solid Low-Post PF with definite potential.

IMHO...it simply come down to the TWolves going with AlJeff only because he had already averaged 16/11 in his 3rd year as a starter ( 19/11 Post-ASB )...as opposed to taking Bynum, who has ( techincally ) put up only 8/6 in his sophmore year. It was simplier to take on the "safer bet" in AlJeff then potentially rolling the dice on a Center that may become a 20/10 guy.

Of course, it may also be that Lakers fans are beginning to realize not every GM is going to bend over and accept anything that they throw out just because they are Lakers :-p

I keed...I keed......I think that the Lakers fans are in the same boat as we are....we simply have overvalued the players that we would include in any potential trade for an all-star like KG ( like sending out Odom+Bynum )...or JONeal ( in sending him to the Lakers for Odom+Bynum ).

DgR
07-30-2007, 06:09 PM
That looks like a couple of expirings and a whole lotta wishin'. Bynum has yet to show even as much as Ike Diogu has shown, yet people are all agog over him. Crittenton has a couple of decent summer league performances under his belt, but not much more. Plus, there are serious questions as to whether he's really a point guard or just another in a long line of combo guards to come to the NBA.

That deal is better financially than the GS trade, but worse from a talent perspective.

You're right that niether of them is a proven anything- but that's the gamble we need to take in order to rebuild- we'll be getting young pieces for positions of need+ salary relief+ draft picks: a good place to start...... is there another team that would give us a better package?

Unclebuck
07-30-2007, 06:11 PM
Let me be the first to say what is sooooooooo obvious. Ainge and McHale had nothing to do with this deal.. David Stern and his minnions set this up, the NBA needs the Celtics to be good again so they made the trade. That is the way the NBA works.


This is kinda of fun

CableKC
07-30-2007, 06:15 PM
I wonder when it will be officially official by the official office of officiating.
It will come out after Stern has stopped dancing on his desk in the NBA offices.

I think Stern owes Ainge and McHale dinner or at least a Dollar Value Double-Cheeseburger from McDonald's......both of them have conspired to bring NBA basketball and ( more importantly for Emperor Stern ) huge Ad-Revenues back to one of Stern's big $$$ markets!!!!

speakout4
07-30-2007, 06:20 PM
Let me be the first to say what is sooooooooo obvious. Ainge and McHale had nothing to do with this deal.. David Stern and his minnions set this up, the NBA needs the Celtics to be good again so they made the trade. That is the way the NBA works.


This is kinda of fun

Then also obvious is that they need LA to be good again-deja vu. Bye JO

SoupIsGood
07-30-2007, 06:22 PM
The league would go nuts if the Finals were Kobe/JO/Odom vs. Garnett/Pierce/Allen

Unclebuck
07-30-2007, 06:27 PM
The league would go nuts if the Finals were Kobe/JO/Odom vs. Garnett/Pierce/Allen

So it shall be

Oneal07
07-30-2007, 06:29 PM
HEY. . .Do y'all remember the Ref Scandal? Or was I dreaming? lol

avoidingtheclowns
07-30-2007, 06:30 PM
HEY. . .Do y'all remember the Ref Scandal? Or was I dreaming? lol

ref scandal? you mean that tim duncan thingy?

Evan_The_Dude
07-30-2007, 06:32 PM
I take back anything bad I've ever said about Danny Ainge...

DgR
07-30-2007, 06:36 PM
The league would go nuts if the Finals were Kobe/JO/Odom vs. Garnett/Pierce/Allen

I think the LA big 3 will play better together

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 06:39 PM
KB/JO/Odom vs KG/PP/Ray....

you guys are making me excited just reading that :(

Oneal07
07-30-2007, 06:39 PM
ref scandal? you mean that tim duncan thingy?


Nah, that fight didn't go down!! Maybe Tim Donaghy had bets for that to go down too :laugh:

speakout4
07-30-2007, 06:39 PM
I take back anything bad I've ever said about Danny Ainge...

He must have gotten an Isiah message: you have one year to turn this mess around.

Oneal07
07-30-2007, 06:41 PM
I take back anything bad I've ever said about Danny Ainge...


He still has work to do. . .maybe he'll take Troy Murphy from us to play Centre. . come on Larry Bird, Ainge is happy, we gotta take advantage of him RIGHT NOW lol

CableKC
07-30-2007, 06:41 PM
I think the LA big 3 will play better together
Until the Lakers cave or TPTB compromise....the LA Big 3 will be nothing more then Odom/Bynum/Kobe combo.

Oh wait...nm....I forgot that they added Fisher.....I think that he's as good as Allen is. :rolleyes:

BoomBaby31
07-30-2007, 06:42 PM
I take back anything bad I've ever said about Danny Ainge...

You and Steven A. Smith lol

speakout4
07-30-2007, 06:44 PM
Funny if Larry now makes the comparable move to match his buddies Ainge and McHale.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 06:45 PM
He still has work to do. . .maybe he'll take Troy Murphy from us to play Centre. . come on Larry Bird, Ainge is happy, we gotta take advantage of him RIGHT NOW lol
Bird should just join in the Celtics reunion party....Ainge has some love for Tinsley right?

:signit:

FrenchConnection
07-30-2007, 06:52 PM
Danny Ainge and McHale reportedly in a basement naked!!!


Lakers fans sure seem to love talking about butt rapes. After every trade in the NBA, some team has always gotten butt raped according to Lakers ground.

indygeezer
07-30-2007, 06:53 PM
I told you guys weeks ago that Stern wanted LA/Boston or LA/NJ or LA/NY matchup. I said that KG in Boston and JO in LA would be his ultimate fantasy...well right after Donaghy falling into a volcano.

BoomBaby33
07-30-2007, 06:54 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: Celtics close to getting KG? Again?
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by Kegboy http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/images/buttons/PDbuttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?p=582781#post582781)
So, let's see if I can figure this out.

Boston

Rondo/???
Ray Allen/Tony Allen/Pruitt
Pierce/Scalabrine
Garnett/Powe/Wallace
Perkins/Davis

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Thats the crappiest bench in the entire league.



Yeah, I agree that "???" guy is a real question mark! :D

On a serious note, KG, PP, and RA will be worn out by February with that team. They will all see about 38 minutes a game, much like what Flip did to the Piston's starters, wore em out and didn't play for the long haul.

On a personal note, I think its a great trade because I have always liked all 3 of these guys because they are not only unselfish players, but because they are good guys.

On a toung in cheek note, i wonder if the league had anything to do with nudging these 2 franchises to work out this deal. Anything to defray the attention from the ref scandal.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 07:03 PM
The only question that I have with any of this is how unclear this KG deal would truly affect any potential JONeal to Laker deal ( either in a positive or negative way ). I can see some valid arguments that suggest that a deal centered around Odom+Bynum for JONeal would be too much to ask for......since the "rumored" deal ( which I have always assumed included Kwame and young filler like Farmar or Crittenton ) didn't convince the TWolves to move KG ( clearly a player with more Trade value then JONeal ). All the TWolves got for one of the best players in the league was:

1 ) A huge expiring Contract - Ratliff
2 ) a Big-Man prospect - AlJeff
3 ) a draft pick - probably in the mid-20s now
4 ) a young ( but raw ) player in return - Green
5 ) filler - Telfair

Realistically, how is this any diferent then any Kwame+Bynum+Farmar ( preferably Crittenton ) deal?

At best....I would think that this KG deal would strengthen any arguments for any "JONeal for Kwame+Bynum+Farmar" deal.....as opposed to any Odom+Bynum deal that TPTB would want. I am guessing that if this would happen...I agree with DD00.....it would fall somewhere inbetween with a "Kwame+Bynum+Crittenton for JONeal" type deal.

But I guess it could also strengthen any arguments that TPTB would have in wanting to get Odom+Bynum since the East just got stronger and we were just kicked down another "rung" on the Eastern Conference ladder :shrug:

DgR
07-30-2007, 07:11 PM
The only question that I have with any of this is how unclear this KG deal would truly affect any potential JONeal to Laker deal ( either in a positive or negative way ). I can see some valid arguments that suggest that a deal centered around Odom+Bynum for JONeal would be too much to ask for......since the "rumored" deal ( which I have always assumed included Kwame and young filler like Farmar or Crittenton ) didn't convince the TWolves to move KG ( clearly a player with more Trade value then JONeal ). All the TWolves got for one of the best players in the league was:

1 ) A huge expiring Contract - Ratliff
2 ) a Big-Man prospect - AlJeff
3 ) a draft pick - probably in the mid-20s now
4 ) a young ( but raw ) player in return - Green
5 ) filler - Telfair

Realistically, how is this any diferent then any Kwame+Bynum+Farmar ( preferably Crittenton ) deal?

At best....I would think that this KG deal would strengthen any arguments for any "JONeal for Kwame+Bynum+Farmar" deal.....as opposed to any Odom+Bynum deal that TPTB would want. I am guessing that if this would happen...I agree with DD00.....it would fall somewhere inbetween with a "Kwame+Bynum+Crittenton for JONeal" type deal.

But I guess it could also strengthen any arguments that TPTB would have in wanting to get Odom+Bynum since the East just got stronger and we were just kicked down another "rung" on the Eastern Conference ladder :shrug:

The main difference is that Al Jeff is much more of a sure thing than Bynum

Kstat
07-30-2007, 07:12 PM
Jefferson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bynam

BostonConnection
07-30-2007, 07:14 PM
I heard the rumors about this starting up again this morning on my way to work, but I have to say I'm surprised it actually happened. All the KG talk this summer reminded me of all the AI talk last year which fizzled into much ado about nothing.

There are a lot of Celtic fans who were reluctant to give up Jefferson, but except for that brief run that Pierce and Walker had to make the ECF the Green have been in 'rebuilding mode' in one form or another since the Big 3 retired. I was skeptical about the Ray Allen deal when it first happened; in the context of today's trade it makes more sense.

Guess the C's will have to quickly change all their ads for the upcoming season which were featuring Pierce and Jefferson. It'll be nice to hear about something on Boston sports talk radio other than the Sox and the Pats all year round.

BostonConnection
07-30-2007, 07:19 PM
Hmmm...Now rotoworld is saying that Ainge is refuting that the trade is a done deal yet as of 7:13 pm et:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NBA
Celtics executive Danny Ainge refuted published reports that an agreement has been reached to acquire Kevin Garnett, according to a report in the Pioneer Press on Monday.

"(The reports) can speculate all they want," he said. "I can confirm we are talking, sure. We're in discussions with (Garnett)." Ainge would not talk about the specifics of their negotiations. "I'm sure we're one of a few teams that are in discussions with the Timberwolves," Ainge said. An anonymous source from the Celtics' organization told the AP that Garnett was definitely coming to Boston, but it obviously has not yet been finalized.

Kstat
07-30-2007, 07:22 PM
They're angling for a contract extension with KG. The agreement between Minnesota and Boston is set. Ainge is simply waiting for KG to agree to an extension.

Roaming Gnome
07-30-2007, 07:31 PM
:drama: The plot thickens...

CableKC
07-30-2007, 07:31 PM
The main difference is that Al Jeff is much more of a sure thing than Bynum
Does that strengthen any argument that the best deal that JONeal can fetch is an "Expiring Contract+Big Man Prospect+Draft pick+young player with potential" type deal ( as in Bynum+Kwame+Crittenton )?

or

Does that strengthen's TPTB argument that they should expect nothing less then Odom+Bynum for JONeal?

The main point that I was trying to bring up was that this KG deal could potentially set a "bar" as to how high JONeal's trade value is.

Unclebuck
07-30-2007, 07:32 PM
Jefferson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bynam

Obviously right now and it isn't even close. But If Bynam improves as to be expected he'll soon be a much better defender than Jefferson. Not sure Bynam will ever be nearly as good offensively as Jefferson. -

DgR
07-30-2007, 07:40 PM
Does that strengthen any argument that the best deal that JONeal can fetch is an "Expiring Contract+Big Man Prospect+Draft pick+young player with potential" type deal ( as in Bynum+Kwame+Crittenton )?

or

Does that strengthen's TPTB argument that they should expect nothing less then Odom+Bynum for JONeal?

The main point that I was trying to bring up was that this KG deal could potentially set a "bar" as to how high JONeal's trade value is.

We'll never get both Bynum & Odom. Do we have any other options than LA?

denyfizle
07-30-2007, 07:50 PM
Obviously right now and it isn't even close. But If Bynam improves as to be expected he'll soon be a much better defender than Jefferson. Not sure Bynam will ever be nearly as good offensively as Jefferson. -

Bynum obviously hasn't made enough impact for people to respect him as a basketball player. Just look at how you and Kstat keep calling him Bynam.

oneofthesedays
07-30-2007, 07:52 PM
The important thing to realize is that JO's trade value will only go down as the years go by. What you're seeing right now is probably the best you'll ever see for JO. Of course it's up to your FO to decide if it's even worth it to move him. But seeing as how the East just got a lot stronger, the Pacers are going to be stuck in the gutter for a while to come.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 07:59 PM
We'll never get both Bynum & Odom. Do we have any other options than LA?
I'm not expecting us to get Bynum AND Odom. I'm only expecting ( but its more like hoping ) for us to get a simiilar ( but lesser ) deal then what the TWolves got for KG....an Expiring Contract ( Kwame ), a Big Man prospect ( Bynum ), a young player with potential ( Crittenton ), a future draft pick, filler ( McKie S&T ) and $$$ ( to help cover McKie's buyout ).

eldubious
07-30-2007, 08:02 PM
I believe LA will give up Odom and Bynum out of panic, Kobe and the fans will bring the Staple Center down if they don't make a move. The fact that KG went to an Eastern Conference team makes acquiring Odom mandatory. The Pacers would want to atleast on paper look like they're competing, adding Odom/Bynum would do that. The Pacers are firmly in the drivers seat in negotiations with LA, simply because they don't have to make a move, while LA does.

Final offer from the Pacers should be JO, 2008 2nd round pick, Harrison, and Daniels for Odom, Bynum, JC, Cook, and Evans. That would compromise in letting LA keep Brown for future deals and give the Pacers LO/AB.

I like the deal for Minnesota, they get Al, Green, Gomes, lst round pick, and cap space. That is a much better offer than Ellis, Biederins, and Wright, although, I'm starting to believe GS basically traded Richardson for nothing now.

Tom White
07-30-2007, 08:05 PM
Lakers fans sure seem to love talking about butt rapes. After every trade in the NBA, some team has always gotten butt raped according to Lakers ground.

Must be something they learned from Bryant.

CableKC
07-30-2007, 08:08 PM
That is a much better offer than Ellis, Biederins, and Wright, although, I'm starting to believe GS basically traded Richardson for nothing now.
They have a 10mil TE that they could use to get the type of player that they are missing.

The rumor now is that the Ws may try to get Gooden with that TE.

City of Big Sholdas
07-30-2007, 08:09 PM
I just saw on the ESPN ticker that its official, or set in place!

Get:
MIN: Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, and two future first round draft picks

BOS: Kevin Garnett

Wow talk about a deal, Minnesota basically has a brand new team, and Boston will get 4 more years out of KG, while as Minnesota will get many with these guys, if they all stay!

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 08:18 PM
Al Jefferson is not a prospect. He's a proven player who's already at least on Odom's level and still improving. Yes, maybe Bynum will one day be as good or better, but you don't trade somebody of that caliber for a maybe.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 08:22 PM
As per Ainge's negotiations, it seems KG has a $6 mil trade kicker he would have to waive for the deal to legally happen.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=TradeKicker101

BlueNGold
07-30-2007, 08:58 PM
Both teams win here. Good for MN, but better for Boston.

Boston is now a legit contender in the East. I'm happy to see that Paul Pierce will finally get major help. KG too, of course. It should rejuvenate all of them.

Boston also has a few bangers left on their team including Kendrick Perkins, Leon Powe and Big Baby Glen Davis. Combine that 800lbs of beef with 3 all-star level talents and a lightening quick PG (Rondo) and you have a strong contender. Tony Allen is a darn good backup too.

Y2J
07-30-2007, 09:01 PM
It's Bynum with a u. And I'm confident Andrew will be a better player than Al Jefferson. Why? Because he's not only more physically gifted but he's also more skilled. I realize Jefferson's numbers were impressive, but let's not overlook the fact that he's 22 compared to Bynum's 19. That's a big difference. Jefferson's numbers also came on arguably the worst team in the league. A team who's best player, Paul Pierce, missed nearly half the season. When you take these things into consideration, Al's not nearly as impressive as Celtic fans would have you to believe. The only excellent skill he posses is his rebounding. He's only a good scorer, nothing extra ordinary, and he's also a poor defender. Bynum has spent his entire career working with Kareem, and has developed post moves Jefferson could only dream of having. He also has a much better shooting touch. Bynum has also shown signs of being a dominant rebounder, yet unlike Jefferson, Bynum has also shown potential dominance on the defensive end. Taking into the account that he's a full 3 years younger and did his work while starting on a team that would've been the #1 seed in the East, I can't see how claiming Bynum will have the better career is such a bold statement.

Anthem
07-30-2007, 09:29 PM
It's Bynum with a u. And I'm confident Andrew will be a better player than Al Jefferson. Why? Because he's not only more physically gifted but he's also more skilled. I realize Jefferson's numbers were impressive, but let's not overlook the fact that he's 22 compared to Bynum's 19. That's a big difference. Jefferson's numbers also came on arguably the worst team in the league. A team who's best player, Paul Pierce, missed nearly half the season. When you take these things into consideration, Al's not nearly as impressive as Celtic fans would have you to believe. The only excellent skill he posses is his rebounding. He's only a good scorer, nothing extra ordinary, and he's also a poor defender. Bynum has spent his entire career working with Kareem, and has developed post moves Jefferson could only dream of having. He also has a much better shooting touch. Bynum has also shown signs of being a dominant rebounder, yet unlike Jefferson, Bynum has also shown potential dominance on the defensive end. Taking into the account that he's a full 3 years younger and did his work while starting on a team that would've been the #1 seed in the East, I can't see how claiming Bynum will have the better career is such a bold statement.
He's 19. He could break a leg tomorrow and that would be the end of it.

Jefferson's a known quantity, and he hasn't yet hit his ceiling. It's certainly not a sure thing that Bynum will ever be on his level.

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 09:47 PM
Anthem has a point, however like Oden... Bynum brings a sense of defense that Al does not.

Bynum is more of a game changer. Al IMO padded his stats last year more than anything.

Bynum had 1.6BPG in less than 22 minutes thats impressive.

Shade
07-30-2007, 09:48 PM
Bynum, Odom, and filler is NOT too much to ask for a 6-time All-Star.

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 09:59 PM
Shade, i have a feeling you guys will be getting you're wish with KG's departure. Lakers are gonna be scared that the Celtics will have a good chance at #17.(championship).

DgR
07-30-2007, 10:01 PM
If we do get Bynum, Critt, Kwame etc. in a trade with LA what the f**k will we do with Diener's 3 year contract? We certainly won't be able to get rid of Tinsley....

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 10:03 PM
I realize Jefferson's numbers were impressive, but let's not overlook the fact that he's 22 compared to Bynum's 19. That's a big difference. Jefferson's numbers also came on arguably the worst team in the league. A team who's best player, Paul Pierce, missed nearly half the season. When you take these things into consideration, Al's not nearly as impressive as Celtic fans would have you to believe. The only excellent skill he posses is his rebounding. He's only a good scorer, nothing extra ordinary,

Al Jeff is a very, very polished scorer. He's got a pretty big arsenal of weapons down there. All tolled, he had 40 double doubles last year.

Of course, it's true that Big Al had much more opportunity, both because of being on a worse team and because Phil didn't give him that many minutes (whether he deserved them is I guess another debate). Also, Andrew's conditioning isn't there yet. I don't think he was really capable of 30 mpg last year, even if Phil and/or ability allowed it.

But I don't argue that Bynum has the bigger upside, mainly, as you say because of defense, size and strength. Al Jeff, while pretty physical himself, just can't match the potentially dominating presence that big Andrew can. Andrew's a legit center. Al is a PF.

Here's a little tale of the tape break-down.

Meanwhile, Bynum is actually closer to 3 years younger (2 years, 10 months)

Bynum
Age: 19 - Oct 27, 1987

7'0
285 lbs

82 games played
53 starts
22 mpg

55.8% FG
66.8% FT

7.8 ppg
5.9 rpg
1.6 bpg

10 double-doubles
1 twenty-point game
9 four-block games

Al Jefferson
Age: 22 -- January 4, 1985

6'10
256 lbs

69 games played
60 games started
33.5 mpg

16 ppg
11 rpg
1.5 bpg

51.4% FG
68.1% FT

40 double-doubles
26 twenty-point games
4 four-block games

Al Jeff's post-All Star numbers are also notable
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3832/splits;_ylt=AjqnRZs.p7mtyn6tQJpqaz2kvLYF

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 10:04 PM
Bynum, Odom, and filler is NOT too much to ask for a 6-time All-Star.

Yes it is. Has been since the beginning.

Anthem
07-30-2007, 10:09 PM
Bynum, Odom, and filler is NOT too much to ask for a 6-time All-Star.
Exactly.

I still think it makes the most sense to include Foster and Crit. We won't need him if we get Bynum, but he'd be pretty valuable to LA as a starting center. LA's front office could legitimately say that they got plenty of value in return for Odom and Bynum, since they'd get a new starting frontcourt. They want to win now, Foster would help with that.

Of course, they'd have been better trading for JO right off the bat and working to make waves in the free agent market. You know Grant would have come to play with JO and Kobe. And Kobe/JO/Grant is a lot better than Kobe/Lamar.

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 10:12 PM
C: Foster
PF: JO
SF: Luke
SG: Kobe
PG: Fisher

i like it.

pig norton
07-30-2007, 10:23 PM
I'm getting really exited for a Celtics vs. Suns finals.

Shade
07-30-2007, 10:26 PM
Exactly.

I still think it makes the most sense to include Foster and Crit. We won't need him if we get Bynum, but he'd be pretty valuable to LA as a starting center. LA's front office could legitimately say that they got plenty of value in return for Odom and Bynum, since they'd get a new starting frontcourt. They want to win now, Foster would help with that.

Of course, they'd have been better trading for JO right off the bat and working to make waves in the free agent market. You know Grant would have come to play with JO and Kobe. And Kobe/JO/Grant is a lot better than Kobe/Lamar.

I would be okay with a JO/Foster for Bynum/Odom/Kwame/Crit deal.

Oneal07
07-30-2007, 10:28 PM
LOL. . .Pacers are gonne be screwed with those Laker players

NapTonius Monk
07-30-2007, 10:29 PM
From a chemistry standpoint, I think they'll mesh perfectly. You don't have to worry about Ray Allen, KG will mesh well, and as Paul Pierce said earlier this year, "I played with one of the biggest guns ever in Antoine Walker." So if he could make that work, he'll be just fine with Allen and KG.

NapTonius Monk
07-30-2007, 10:31 PM
LOL. . .Pacers are gonne be screwed with those Laker players

How so? Are you thinking they're not going to pan out like some think they will? May as well go younger. Do you honestly feel we're within tweaking of a championship with this squad?

BlueNGold
07-30-2007, 10:33 PM
From a chemistry standpoint, I think they'll mesh perfectly. You don't have to worry about Ray Allen, KG will mesh well, and as Paul Pierce said earlier this year, "I played with one of the biggest guns ever in Antoine Walker." So if he could make that work, he'll be just fine with Allen and KG.

Pierce, Fatoine and Davis all played OK together. Not a great combination to win games, but pretty entertaining offense. There's no doubt in my mind those three guys will fit perfectly. They will contend no doubt.

Y2J
07-30-2007, 10:35 PM
He's 19. He could break a leg tomorrow and that would be the end of it.

Jefferson's a known quantity, and he hasn't yet hit his ceiling. It's certainly not a sure thing that Bynum will ever be on his level.

Anyone can be injured. I don't see your point there.

Sure Jefferson's more proven. He's also 3 years older, a year more experienced, and most importantly, played for a team that could afford to take a chance on giving him 30+ mpg. Bynum's still a teenager on a playoff team, big difference. Still, Bynum managed to start 53 games last year and for the minutes he played, and especially taking into account his age and experience, was very impressive. It's a gamble, sure Jefferson's more proven and therefor the safer pick, but I think Bynum has the bigger upside. I'd take my chances with Andrew.


2nd year stats....Bynum at 19 on a playoff team, Jefferson at 21 on a lottery team...
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8079/bynumvsjeffersonkm3.png

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 10:37 PM
If the Pacers land Bynum... he will average 13/9 and 2-3BPG.

don't call me a idiot it's the truth. Phil Jackson is expecting 15-10 from Bynum next year or has told Bynum to average that.

Anthem
07-30-2007, 10:40 PM
Anyone can be injured. I don't see your point there.
My point is that Bynum may never become the player Jefferson is now, let alone the player Jefferson may become.

I'm not against trying to land Bynum. But Bynum+Crit just isn't enough for Jermaine.

Big Smooth
07-30-2007, 10:41 PM
Personally I just don't see the Celtics becoming some tremendous force in the league now. Sure the trades put them back into the playoffs and likely into the top 3 or 4 teams in the East but they pretty much gutted their roster of any depth at all. I'm not buying any Celtics to the Finals hype at this time. But it will most certainly be interesting to see what Boston does this season.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 10:41 PM
If the Pacers land Bynum... he will average 13/9 and 2-3BPG.

don't call me a idiot it's the truth. Phil Jackson is expecting 15-10 from Bynum next year or has told Bynum to average that.

And we'd be giving up 20/10 and 2-3BPG. (Not to razz you Smashed, I know you're not in the Bynum-only group. Just making a point that we're giving up a lot no matter what.)

Smashed_Potato
07-30-2007, 10:47 PM
Kegboy.... I wanna give up Odom/Bynum for the Pacers sake as well. i don't want any riots in Indiana. not sure if Bynum as the main package will be enough to satisfy you guys. at the end of the day 1 fan base is gonna be ****ed off and it should be us. you hold leverage we don't.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 11:25 PM
You know it's big news when Sports Guy actually gets off his *** to write something nowadays.

As expected, he's pretty much wetting himself with excitement right now. Although, I can't say I disagree with much of this. The Celtics of course don't have much around the new Big 3, but sometimes, you just gotta man up and roll the dice when you get a chance like this.

Worst case scenario (aside from major injuries) is they sell out all their games, become nationally relevant again, make some noise in the Playoffs and come up a little short.

All things considered, that's no so bad.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070730



Monday, July 30, 2007

McHale adds another notch to his Celtics legacy

By Bill Simmons
Page 2

Editor's Note: Although the trade of Kevin Garnett to the Celtics hasn't been officially announced, numerous parties (including ESPN.com) were reporting a deal was in place Monday. Here's The Sports Guy's reaction to the news of KG's impending arrival.

During Kevin McHale's 13-year career in Boston, he helped the Celtics capture three championships, redefined the lost art of low-post play, defended everyone from Bernard King to Andrew Toney to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and peaked as the best power forward alive in 1986 and '87. I loved watching him, I loved rooting for him and, most of all, I loved him for risking his career in the '87 playoffs by playing on a broken foot. Boston ended up losing the NBA Finals in six and his career was never quite the same. To this day, he walks with a slight limp. To this day, he says he'd do it again.

When we raised McHale's No. 32 to the rafters, naturally, we assumed his last great Boston moment happened in a '93 playoff series against Charlotte, when McHale reached back in time and tortured the Hornets down low for 35 unfathomable points in Game 2. The Garden was rocking, McHale was moving like the old McHale and everything seemed right with the world again. It was one of those ESPN Classic games that you knew you'd always remember even as it was happening. And if that had been his last great act for the Celtics, I would have been fine with it.

Kevin McHale, who won three titles in Celtic green, may make Boston a contender again.

Fast-forward to 2007. The Celtics haven't mattered in 15 years. We've won three playoff series since McHale retired. We've had three above-.500 seasons. We've had terrible front-office executives and terrible coaches, people who were so horrendous at their jobs it almost defied belief. We've had a whopping two All-Stars, neither of whom was a top-10 player (although they were paid like it). Quite simply, we've sucked. Even worse, the people running the team were panicking like a teenage couple waiting for the results of a pregnancy test, culminating in last month's bizarre decision to trade the No. 5 pick for Ray Allen. We were stuck in no man's land, just good enough to make the playoffs, just young enough that we weren't making noise, and by the time our young guys matured, Allen would have been finished. For the past four weeks, I've probably been the angriest I've ever been at my favorite team.

But here's what I wasn't counting on …

Our old friend Kevin McHale.

My NBA guide claims that McHale retired from the Celtics in 1993, but apparently that's a misprint. How else could you explain his decision to trade Kevin Garnett to Boston for the Al Jefferson pu pu platter deluxe? Just five weeks ago, McHale and Minnesota couldn't close a potential deal in which they received Jefferson and Boston's No. 5 pick. Now? They're settling for Jefferson (a potential franchise player), Ryan Gomes (an intangibles guy who's useless on a bad team), Bassy Telfair (a year away from signing in Italy), Gerald Green (a homeless man's J.R. Smith), Theo Ratliff's expiring deal, a 2009 lottery-protected No. 1 pick (congrats on picking in the mid-20s) and the return of Minny's future No. 1 that was stupidly included in the Ricky Davis/Mark Blount-Wally Szczerbiak trade.
Basically, McHale traded one of the best 25 players ever -- at the tail end of his prime!!! -- for Jefferson (a free agent in two years), one year of Gomes (a free agent in '08, when he'll be leaving treadmarks on his way out of Minnesota), a harmless pick and a do-over for a pick he never should have traded. Last month, McHale walked away from the No. 5 pick in the deal. This month, he couldn't even get Boston to throw in Rajon Rondo.

And honestly? I'm flabbergasted. I was vehemently against trading Jefferson and the No. 5 for KG, only because losing Jefferson wouldn't have been worth competing with two top-25 guys and a roster too young to do anything around them (as well as Doc Rivers coaching that very same team). Now? They have three All-Stars -- KG, Allen and Paul Pierce -- who rank in the top-six at their respective positions. Assuming KG and Allen have 2-3 quality seasons in them, that gives the Celts pole position in the atrocious Eastern Conference for 2008 and 2009, especially if they luck out with one more free-agent signing and an in-season veteran pickup.

Now here's where it gets really good: Pierce, Allen and Garnett happen to be wired the exact same way -- three ultracompetitive guys nearing the end of their primes who would sacrifice anything to play on a winner. All of them were stuck in miserable situations last season (combined record: 87-159), all of them are good guys, all of them understand that you only have so many chances to contend. For all three guys, it will be their best team ever, regardless of who's playing with them. Allen hasn't played with a top-20 player his entire career; neither has Pierce; and Garnett hasn't played with one elite scorer, much less two. For Garnett, his major weakness (crunch-time scoring) gets solved with two proven crunch-time scorers helping him. For Pierce, his major weakness (leadership) gets obscured because he has two intense veterans who know how to deal with the media and lead by example. For Allen, his weakness (a tendency to break down) gets negated because he won't have to carry his team offensively every night.

Just think of these three guys thrown together. All three carried playoff teams further than they should have gone: Pierce in 2002, Garnett in 2004, Allen in 2005. All three were on suicide watch as recently as six weeks ago, wondering how they could extract themselves from untenable (and unwinnable) situations. All three are about to become relevant again in April, May and June. Would you bet against them having monster seasons? Would you bet against them embarking on a 100-game mission to make the Finals? Hell, have three star teammates ever had more to prove in one season?

There's one precedent: In August 1996, when the Rockets mortgaged their future by trading Sam Cassell and Robert Horry to the Suns for Charles Barkley, teamed the Chuckster with Hakeem Olajuwon and Clyde Drexler and crossed their fingers that a paltry supporting cast (basically, Eddie Johnson, Mario Elie and a gigantic hole at point guard) wouldn't sink them. Although Dream and Glide already had won titles, their careers were at a similar point as the KG-Pierce-Allen trio -- each (including Barkley) had peaked as impact players, but each had something left in his tank. Dream averaged a 23 points and 9 rebounds, Barkley recorded 19-13.5, Drexler chipped in with an 18-6-6, and the Rockets won 57 games and came within two victories of the '97 Finals, losing to the Jazz for one reason: Rookie point guard Matt Maloney was absolutely eviscerated by John Stockton. This was like watching Frankie Williams get destroyed by Roddy Piper on Piper's Pit, only if it happened for six straight games over the course of two weeks. That's why they lost.

One year later, Glide and Dream were just about done, Barkley was headed that way and the Rockets finished .500. They haven't won a playoff series since.

The question remains: If you're a Rockets fan, would you make that trade again? You had that Utah series tied 2-2 before blowing a nailbiter in Utah and losing Game 6 on a Stockton buzzer-beater. You were right there. Was it worth it? In my opinion, absolutely. The whole point of fielding an NBA team is to win a title -- if you have the chance, you have to try. Even if it means crossing your fingers with the likes of Matt Maloney.

Eleven years later, the Celtics find themselves in a similar spot: Three All-Stars coupled with a talented but woefully inexperienced point guard (Rondo), a promising defensive stopper coming off major knee surgery (Tony Allen), a decent backup center who plays hard (Kendrick Perkins), a new Mark Madsen for KG (Brian Scalabrine, who's already working on his high-fives and fist-pumps), two undersized power forwards (Big Baby Glen Davis, Leon Powe), two athletic rookies (Brandon Wallace, Gabe Pruitt) and that's it. There isn't an Eddie Johnson or Mario Elie to be seen. Then again, since they're likely to add one or two more ring-hungry veterans, and since the '08 Eastern Conference is between three and 200 times worse than the '97 Western Conference, who knows? In the words of Chris Shiherlis, the bank is worth the risk.

Could the 2008 version of Maloney screw up Boston's first true title contender in 16 years? It's much more likely that Doc will screw it up -- he should have been fired two years ago. Then again, his three biggest problems as a coach have been:


A. Coming up with a rotation and sticking to it -- not a problem now since the Celts barely have enough NBA guys on the roster.

B. Killing the confidence of his point guards by yelling at them too much and yanking their minutes around -- not a problem now since Rondo is the only point guard on the roster.

C. Refusing to come up with any semblance of a strategy to defend high screens -- not as much of a problem now because KG is one of the greatest pick-and-roll defenders of all-time.


So maybe Doc won't be as much of an albatross this season. Besides, any team with KG, Pierce and Allen will coach itself. We can only hope.

Regardless, at least the Celtics matter again. From the beginning, Danny Ainge's stated game plan was to blow up a decent 2004 team, stockpile as many assets as possible, then eventually trade those assets for one or two impact guys. In a roundabout way, that's exactly what he did -- even if the Allen trade was a complete I-need-to-save-my-job panic deal, and even if they gambled that a third All-Star miraculously would fall from the sky this summer (which is exactly what happened). Looking back, it was like watching the World Series of Poker and seeing someone say "screw it!" by going all-in with a jack-nine of spades after a flop yielded two more spades. Is it smart to risk everything on the 25-percent chance that you'll get the flush? Well, it depends on how many chips you have left. If you're desperate, and you're running out of money, and you need a momentum swing, maybe you do it. If you get the flush, it doesn't mean you were a good poker player, it just means you were losing chips and had to take an enormous risk because you didn't have any other choice.

For Ainge, the Allen trade was going all-in for the flush and the KG trade was getting that fifth spade on the river. Of course, he's also the reason we were low on chips in the first place, but that's the thing about poker -- even during the most dire times, you're always one lucky hand away from turning things around. For one of the few times since Larry Bird retired, the Celtics lucked out. Now it looks like they can contend in the East. Now the Celtics are on TNT and ESPN for more than two appearances. Now Barkley and Kenny aren't making jokes about us, and free agents actually might want to play for us, and my dad isn't bemoaning the fact that he just threw away money for season tickets again. The Boston Celtics are back. Repeat: The Celtics are back. Even if we had to give up two top-seven picks and the best young low-post player in the league to get there.

"I hate giving up Jefferson," my Dad said, "but we had to do it."

We were on the phone going through the trade, piece by piece. Dad loved watching Jefferson. He thinks Jefferson is going to be special. At the same time, he's getting old and wanted to see them contend again. At the very least, we're contenders. That much is clear. You actually can look forward to Celtics home games again.

"It's amazing this worked out," Dad said. "I always liked McHale -- maybe he had better offers, but he just wanted to help the Celtics out."

"That wouldn't surprise me," I said. "He was a great Celtic."

"Yeah, remember when he played on the broken foot that year? He was a great Celtic."

Maybe he still is.

Bill Simmons is a columnist for Page 2 and ESPN The Magazine.

bulldog
07-31-2007, 12:26 AM
There are more teams in good situations than I've seen in a long time. Everyone seems to be either making a run or stocking up for the future.

I think us and the Kings are the only teams for whom there's not much to get excited about in either the present or the future.

GenlHooker
07-31-2007, 01:42 AM
When you look at the eastern confrence guess who is one of the worst teams now. I guess as my friend said earlier this evening the IP are tanking the season so that they can sign so free agents next year? go figure. We have a bet he says the IP will win 32, and I believe in them and am saying 36.

Naptown_Seth
07-31-2007, 03:37 AM
There are more teams in good situations than I've seen in a long time. Everyone seems to be either making a run or stocking up for the future.

I think us and the Kings are the only teams for whom there's not much to get excited about in either the present or the future.
Just like spring training. Now check where the Rangers or Reds are at. ;)

Some teams that are excited now are gonna be PO'd later, not unlike how the Pacers' season went last year.

BoomBaby33
07-31-2007, 07:48 AM
LOL. . .Pacers are gonne be screwed with those Laker players

I friggin haten the lakers. LB, DW - Do NOT give them O'neal now just because the Celtics and Paul Pierce landed KG.

I think its ironic that when Kobe was crying and whining to get help, nothing has come, but the Celtics and PP are the ones making the moves. This is great.

How do you think all of Kobe's team mates felt about those statements, i bet they could have cared less if the lakers made that first move or not.

The only way I would trade O'neal to the lakers now is if we get Kobe back - and if you all remember LB's statement about that - he said "i hear Kobe is wanting moved" (or something to that effect). Plus that would just absolutely p*** off Der'Stern.

Go Pacers!

Kegboy
07-31-2007, 09:26 AM
Simmons makes a great comparison to that Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley Houston team. He mentions that they had better role players, but he neglected to mention they had a much better coach, too. And as somebody who remembers Maloney getting burned one play after another, it just takes a weakness at one position that the other team can exploit.

DgR
07-31-2007, 09:36 AM
I would be okay with a JO/Foster for Bynum/Odom/Kwame/Crit deal.

That would be amazing- but is also an extremely optimistic prediction. LA FO would be insane to agree to that

DisplacedKnick
07-31-2007, 10:02 AM
Simmons makes a great comparison to that Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley Houston team. He mentions that they had better role players, but he neglected to mention they had a much better coach, too. And as somebody who remembers Maloney getting burned one play after another, it just takes a weakness at one position that the other team can exploit.

I doubt this makes the Celts one of the top 5 teams in the NBA.

However, in a conference stocked with flawed teams, they are the flawed team that, on paper, have to be considered one of the 2 best.

count55
07-31-2007, 10:34 AM
Simmons makes a great comparison to that Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley Houston team. He mentions that they had better role players, but he neglected to mention they had a much better coach, too. And as somebody who remembers Maloney getting burned one play after another, it just takes a weakness at one position that the other team can exploit.

If Cleveland can get to the finals with LeBron and a bunch a guys they picked up on the corner that morning with a flatbed truck, I think you'd have to install Boston with KG/Pierce/Allen as prohibitive favorites in the East.

Moses
07-31-2007, 10:35 AM
If Cleveland can get to the finals with LeBron and a bunch a guys they picked up on the corner that morning with a flatbed truck, I think you'd have to install Boston with KG/Pierce/Allen as prohibitive favorites in the East.
rofl

JayRedd
07-31-2007, 10:50 AM
Simmons makes a great comparison to that Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley Houston team. He mentions that they had better role players, but he neglected to mention they had a much better coach, too. And as somebody who remembers Maloney getting burned one play after another, it just takes a weakness at one position that the other team can exploit.

Fortunately for the Cs though, there's not another team in the 2008 East Playoffs that has two in-their-prime Hall of Famers to contend with.

Plus, their marginal starters problem isn't defense, so they can't be exploited as much as the likes of the immortal Matt Maloney (or as the bullies used to call him in 3rd grade, Fatt Baloney).

Naptown_Seth
07-31-2007, 11:58 AM
Simmons makes a great comparison to that Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley Houston team. He mentions that they had better role players, but he neglected to mention they had a much better coach, too. And as somebody who remembers Maloney getting burned one play after another, it just takes a weakness at one position that the other team can exploit.
That is a great comparison, it seemed like a sure thing at the time. KG might be on par with Hakeen, but Drexler had a bigger history of winning than Ray Allen (and was a stronger all-around player) and Barkley was still a bigger force than Pierce is.

Part of me does love their talent, Ray was the play starter off the dribble much of the time last year for Seattle so the PG issue on offense isn't that bad. But I've seen so many of these on-paper teams not really put it together. Has there really been a lot of them that ended up pulling it off?


Another team that comes to mind is Houston's PIPPEN variation with Chuck and Dream that came after Drexler was done. Good W-L record but then ousted in the first round by a pre-Phil Lakers.

JayRedd
07-31-2007, 12:38 PM
But I've seen so many of these on-paper teams not really put it together. Has there really been a lot of them that ended up pulling it off?

Miami was crowned by the media the day they pulled off that huge trade to get Antoine, JWill and Posey (GP was added sometime before or after as well).

Worked out pretty well.

rexnom
07-31-2007, 01:09 PM
Miami was crowned by the media the day they pulled off that huge trade to get Antoine, JWill and Posey (GP was added sometime before or after as well).

Worked out pretty well.
Honestly, how much better is that Miami team than this Celtics team?

bulldog
07-31-2007, 01:37 PM
Miami was crowned by the media the day they pulled off that huge trade to get Antoine, JWill and Posey (GP was added sometime before or after as well).

Worked out pretty well.

Miami was killed by the media. No one liked that trade, especially when combined with Pat Riley's unceremonious dismissal of Van Gundy. If I remember correctly, people wondered how in the world Antoine Walker added anything to them, although the GP signing was consisdered slightly more reasonable (though he was officially way past his prime at that point).

As far as the Houston comparison, the major difference between that team and the Celtics is the comparable quality of the conference surrounding them at the time. Boston had to make this trade because the East is weak right now, and LeBron, Wade, Howard, and Chicago are just waiting for the right pieces to fall into place around them before taking off.

Finally, I think the three superstars fit together almost as well as any other three superstars in the league (besides Nash, Amare, and Marion, maybe). This to me does not seem like the Nets Big 3, where Vince has stifled Jefferson; furthermore, all three of these guys are still in their prime (albeit the tail-end), so the Lakers, Rockets, and Miami comparisons are not quite apt.

Even if you do make the comparison, all three of those teams did really well (one malone injury from a championship, a close conference finals, and a championship, respectively).

I can't wait to watch Boston play next year.

rexnom
07-31-2007, 01:40 PM
Unrelated but am I the only one who thinks Al Jefferson is as good as Dwight Howard?

Rajah Brown
07-31-2007, 01:41 PM
I'm way late to this thread discussion. But I really like what Ainge
has done. Sure, they need to round up some more veteran depth.
But a (presumed) starting lineup of Perkins (or PJ Brown ?) , KG,
PP, RA and Rondo looks pretty good to me.

On the defensive end, the combo of Rondo's ability to pressure and
disrupt opposing PG's and KG patrolling the lane will make things
quite a bit easier for Pierce and Allen and should help cut down
on their wear and tear.

And offensively, having premiere shooters at 2, 3 and 4 should open
up the floor for plenty of penetration. If Rondo can get his TO's
under control and advance his distributive skills a bit, he should
really flourish playing with those guys and vice versa.

Kegboy
07-31-2007, 01:45 PM
Another team that comes to mind is Houston's PIPPEN variation with Chuck and Dream that came after Drexler was done. Good W-L record but then ousted in the first round by a pre-Phil Lakers.

And as we learned later, chemistry is what killed that Pippen team.

Along the same lines, I'm reminded of the '02 WBC team. The gossip was that Pierce calling his own number so much caused real problems. But, he has had 5 years to mature since then.

Kstat
07-31-2007, 01:47 PM
And as we learned later, chemistry is what killed that Pippen team.


Um, Matt Maloney is what killed that team...

Slick Pinkham
07-31-2007, 01:48 PM
They obviously need some followup moves, but additions of some potentially cheap available free agents, say any two of these guys: Brevin Knight, PJ Brown, Pargo, Boykins, Matt Barnes, James Posey, Mikael Pietrus

would make their bench solid enough IMO

rexnom
07-31-2007, 01:51 PM
Honestly, what free agent would not want to come to Boston now? And honestly, Boston is a fun city...it's not that bad.

bulldog
07-31-2007, 01:52 PM
I liked this blog post from "empty the bench" (via truehoop) that sums up well how I feel about this combo of players, and also talks about the Wolves future quite a bit:

http://www.emptythebench.com/2007/07/30/kevin-garnett-packs-his-bags/


Boston is a fun city...it's not that bad.
Maybe if you're a twenty-something college student. But probably not if you're an NBA player.

Kegboy
07-31-2007, 01:57 PM
Um, Matt Maloney is what killed that team...

No, Maloney killed them in '98, the year before they got Pippen. In '99 they started Mobley and Dickerson, though it's funny to look at the stats. Not often you see a team's SF and PF lead the team in assists.

http://www.nba.com/rockets/stats/1998/index.html

Robobtowncolt
07-31-2007, 01:58 PM
Honestly, what free agent would not want to come to Boston now? And honestly, Boston is a fun city...it's not that bad.

Fun? If you like everything shutting down at 6pm. And really, really cold weather.

Sorry, I'm not bitter about having to spend 3 more years here or anything.

avoidingtheclowns
07-31-2007, 02:00 PM
Miami was killed by the media. No one liked that trade, especially when combined with Pat Riley's unceremonious dismissal of Van Gundy. If I remember correctly, people wondered how in the world Antoine Walker added anything to them, although the GP signing was consisdered slightly more reasonable (though he was officially way past his prime at that point).

one big difference between boston now and miami then... miami was a wade injury away from the finals the year before. boston was crossing fingers for the lottery.

tdubb03
07-31-2007, 02:11 PM
So Minnesota's going to have to throw in another player or two right? I thought these 6+ guys for 1 player deals weren't legal anymore?

Wonder what would've happened if Boston got pick 1/2.

SparkyPacer
07-31-2007, 02:14 PM
They would have Kevin Durant or Greg Oden instead of Ray Allen basically.

rexnom
07-31-2007, 02:21 PM
Fun? If you like everything shutting down at 6pm. And really, really cold weather.

Sorry, I'm not bitter about having to spend 3 more years here or anything.
Not everything shuts down at 6 PM...college parties certainly don't...and hey! You could certainly have law school in worse places. Just thank god you're not in the midwest or something...hehe...just kidding folks...

rexnom
07-31-2007, 02:21 PM
They would have Kevin Durant or Greg Oden instead of Ray Allen basically.
That's why they call it a lottery.

BoomBaby31
07-31-2007, 02:35 PM
Unrelated but am I the only one who thinks Al Jefferson is as good as Dwight Howard?

YES!!! Even Al Jefferson's momma doesn't think he's as good as Dwight Howard.

indyblue47
07-31-2007, 03:13 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7078764

Celtics complete deal for Garnett

BOSTON - Kevin Garnett is coming to Boston and he's going to stay for a while.

According to Celtics spokesman Jeff Twiss, the 10-time NBA All-Star will likely be introduced at a news conference at 5:30 p.m. ET on Tuesday.
According to multiple sources close to situation, Minnesota will send Garnett to Boston for five players and a pair of first-round draft picks. Al Jefferson is the centerpiece of the deal for Timberwolves Vice President of Basketball Operations Kevin McHale, who will also get Theo Ratliff and his expiring contract, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair and a pair of 2009 first-round picks.

The Celtics' draft pick will be top-three protected and the other pick will be the one Minnesota originally dealt to Boston in the trade that sent Ricky Davis to the T'Wolves for Wally Szczerbiak.

According to sources, Garnett will also sign a three-year extension with the Celtics. He has two years left on his current deal.

Garnett, the league's MVP in 2004, had the option to opt out of his contract which pays $22 million next season after the 2008 campaign and become a free agent.

McHale tried feverishly to obtain Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo in the deal. However, Celtics boss Danny Ainge held out from trading Rondo who will likely be the team's starting floor leader this season.

Ainge tried unsuccessfully to acquire the 31-year-old Garnett prior to the NBA Draft, but was able to land Ray Allen from Seattle for the No. 5 overall pick, Delonte West and Szczerbiak on the night of the draft.

Garnett didn't have any interest in heading to Boston prior to the draft, but now with Pierce and Allen in the fold, he had a change of heart. Garnett averaged 22.4 points and 12.8 rebounds per game last season -- his 12th in the NBA.

The primary factor with the deal was Garnett agreeing to the multi-year deal to remain in Boston -- and figuring out the specifics regarding the 15 percent or $6.75 million trade kicker in Garnett's contract.




The trade gives Ainge and the Celtics, who finished 24-58 last season, a team that could compete with anyone in the Eastern Conference. The 29-year-old Pierce missed 35 games a year ago due to injuries. With the trio of Pierce, Garnett and Allen, Boston would also have nearly $55 million in salaries between the three players for next season alone.

"There's no question that the Celtics could win the East," said one high-ranking NBA executive. "But they've got a lot of money tied up in those three players going forward."

The T'Wolves will get one of the league's top young players in the 22-year-old Jefferson, who averaged 16 points and 11 boards in 69 games a year ago. They would also get Ratliff's $11.7 million salary, which will come off the books after this season, and a big-time athlete in Green who has shown glimpses of potential.

Pacersfan46
07-31-2007, 03:40 PM
FINALLY.

This crap is over, and we can now begin to see other teams make a move who were waiting to see if they could get KG.

-- Steve --

Hicks
07-31-2007, 04:05 PM
Yeah, ESPNews just announced it as done as well. Press conference at 6PM.

Smashed_Potato
07-31-2007, 04:10 PM
Who would you rather have..

Greg Oden/ Paul Pierce/ Al Jefferson

or

KG / Paul / Ray-Ray?

Moses
07-31-2007, 04:14 PM
Glad KG finally got traded.

Now maybe we'll start getting some good offers for JO. I think Boston has a good 2-3 year window here with these guys to dominate the East.

Gyron
07-31-2007, 04:17 PM
HOw many players does that leave Boston with? They gave a way 4 more than they received in this one. Then at the draft the traded away 2 and got one back. So they've dropped 5 players off their roster in the last month. Whats that leave them with? And with such a huge salary tied up in the three players, what do you use to fill the gaps?

Not saying that I'm not for this trade, just makes me wonder what kind of bench they are gonna have.

Kstat
07-31-2007, 04:22 PM
HOw many players does that leave Boston with? They gave a way 4 more than they received in this one. Then at the draft the traded away 2 and got one back. So they've dropped 5 players off their roster in the last month. Whats that leave them with? And with such a huge salary tied up in the three players, what do you use to fill the gaps?

Not saying that I'm not for this trade, just makes me wonder what kind of bench they are gonna have.

I believe they have 11 players under contract now.

Starting 5:

C: Perkins
PF: Garnett
SF: Pierce
SG: Allen
PG: Rondo

Bench:
PG: Gabe Pruitt
SG: Tony Allen
SF: Brandon Wallace
SF: Leon Powe
PF: Brian Scalabrane
C: Glenn Davis

Trader Joe
07-31-2007, 04:24 PM
I believe they have 11 players under contract now.

Starting 5:

C: Perkins
PF: Garnett
SF: Pierce
SG: Allen
PG: Rondo

Bench:
PG: Gabe Pruitt
SG: Tony Allen
SF: Brandon Wallace
SF: Leon Powe
PF: Brian Scalabrane
C: Glenn Davis

I really can't explain how bad that backup front court is on defense. They need to get better in that area if they want to win the east.

Kegboy
07-31-2007, 04:25 PM
I love how they always refer to it as "Theo Ratliff and his expiring contract", as if they were two separate entities. Like you could trade the contract but still have Theo Ratliff.

Trader Joe
07-31-2007, 04:27 PM
FYI KG press conference wil be at 6 o'clock if it hasn't been mentioned yet.

purdue101
07-31-2007, 04:29 PM
I believe they have 11 players under contract now.

Starting 5:

C: Perkins
PF: Garnett
SF: Pierce
SG: Allen
PG: Rondo

Bench:
PG: Gabe Pruitt
SG: Tony Allen
SF: Brandon Wallace
SF: Leon Powe
PF: Brian Scalabrane
C: Glenn Davis

ouch!! that bench is just flat out horrible. do they still have their MLE and other exceptions?? if so, ainge better get to work.

JayRedd
07-31-2007, 04:29 PM
Who would you rather have..

Greg Oden/ Paul Pierce/ Al Jefferson

or

KG / Paul / Ray-Ray?

I choose:

Kevin Durant / Paul Pierce / Al Jeff

rexnom
07-31-2007, 04:30 PM
Who would you rather have..

Greg Oden/ Paul Pierce/ Al Jefferson

or

KG / Paul / Ray-Ray?
It's not like they had a choice though. They had the five pick.

rexnom
07-31-2007, 04:30 PM
I choose:

Kevin Durant / Paul Pierce / Al Jeff
I was about to post the same...I think that's what the Celtics were hoping for.

Kstat
07-31-2007, 04:31 PM
ouch!! that bench is just flat out horrible. do they still have their MLE and other exceptions?? if so, ainge better get to work.

They have all their exceptions, but at the same time any MLE deals will come at a high price, considering the LT.

JayRedd
07-31-2007, 04:37 PM
FYI KG press conference wil be at 6 o'clock if it hasn't been mentioned yet.

KG supposedly signed a three-year extension also if it wasn't in that earlier article.

So they have him under contract until 2012, I believe.

purdue101
07-31-2007, 04:40 PM
They have all their exceptions, but at the same time any MLE deals will come at a high price, considering the LT.

i figure ainge just went all in.....so i would hope he would use them if i'm a celts fan. i just can't see that team winning a championship w/o some more depth. rondo and perkins are nice prospects, but neither has proven much.....PG & C are the two most important positions on the court too. i guess all they need out of perkins is rebounding and D, but i'd be leary of rondo starting on a team hoping to contend.

brevin knight and pj brown would be nice additions for them.

Hicks
07-31-2007, 05:20 PM
That is kind of bizarre: Just how long did they REALLY know this deal was done? Notice what's ALREADY on sale:

http://celticsstore.seenon.com/index.php?v=clje&pa=emcbBC0001_073107

They already knew his number and had the website ready to sell the new jersey. That's easily the fastest I've ever seen that happen after a trade.

Pacersfan46
07-31-2007, 06:08 PM
I have to say this though, as we're obviously out of the race for a while (I believe) ..... I can't convey here how badly I want KG to get a ring. Almost as badly as I wanted Reggie Miller to get one.

He absolutely deserves it. *sigh* .... here's to hoping.

-- Steve --

Tom White
07-31-2007, 06:14 PM
Its just a darn shame our Laker friends won't get to see the KG/Boston press conference.

They'll be too busy watching the Lakers presenting their latest signing, Coby Karl.

That just HAS to hurt.

idioteque
07-31-2007, 06:20 PM
I've always liked KG. Really classy guy, never complained about his situation up there too much even after that silly Joe Smith faisco.

In the speaking of that fiasco, the T-Wolves have officially recovered from it with this trade. They won't be that great next year, they'll be really young and raw. But, they become much more interesting and their future is much brighter with a bunch of good young players that will give this team multiple weapons in the future than it was with KG carrying a bunch of B-talent guys on his back.

And, they've got 2 first round picks AND Ratliff's expiring contract with gives them the ability to make some good moves in the future.

I really like Gomes and think that he could start somewhere someday. I am happy to see him in a new situation, but sad that he'll still be backing up Jefferson.

The T-Wolves now have Jefferson, Gomes, Green, Foye, Ricky Davis, and McCants. They're still a ways from competing in the West and again, their youth will plummet them to the bottom of the West next year, but at least they're interesting now and not stuck in gear like the Pacers seem to be for eternity.

Personally, I think that the package the Wolves got for KG from Boston is much better than anything LA could have offered. If KG is worth Jefferson/Green/Gomes/Telfair/Ratliff AND two first round picks, than JO is definately worth Odom/Bynum/Brown.

As for Boston, they have 3 All-Stars now, although they don't have much else. However, Cleveland made the finals in the East last year and they don't have anything representing talent on that team outside LeBron.

To compare Boston to NJ's big three is ridiculous. Richard Jefferson is terribly overrated and a class behind Pierce, Allen, AND Garnett. Boston is a much better team than that.

The Pistons could give the Celtics some trouble, but besides that I don't see anyone in the East challenging them seeing that Cleveland got to the Finals last year with literally one really good player and nothing else.

All in all, good trade for both teams given their situations.

Trader Joe
07-31-2007, 06:59 PM
That is kind of bizarre: Just how long did they REALLY know this deal was done? Notice what's ALREADY on sale:

http://celticsstore.seenon.com/index.php?v=clje&pa=emcbBC0001_073107

They already knew his number and had the website ready to sell the new jersey. That's easily the fastest I've ever seen that happen after a trade.

Those are just the replicas. They basically screen print his name and number on there. I'm pretty sure if we had just brought in a guy like KG a replica version would be available that quickly.

blanket
07-31-2007, 07:29 PM
Personally, I think that the package the Wolves got for KG from Boston is much better than anything LA could have offered. If KG is worth Jefferson/Green/Gomes/Telfair/Ratliff AND two first round picks, than JO is definately worth Odom/Bynum/Brown.

In terms of the KG trade setting JO's trade value, I'm starting to agree. Perhaps LA would be more likely to go for a JO/Foster for Odom/Bynum/Brown deal, or even JO/Dunleavy for Odom/Bynum/Brown (to help replace what they get from Odom).

I'm hearing 2 different arguments from LA fans against trading both Odom and Bynum for JO:

1) JO's value does not equal both Bynum and Odom

2) To lose both Odom and Bynum would leave the Lakers too thin at F/C and leave them without a viable 3rd scoring option

Seems to me that the KG trade sets JO's value high enough to make argument #1 invalid. As for argument #2, if the Lakers acquire JO for Odom/Bynum/Brown, they can expect to take back another salary from the Pacers to make it work like Foster, Dunleavy, or Daniels -- 2 of which could be a viable 3rd scoring option. If the trade is just JO for Bynum/Odom, teh Lakers could still trade Brown's expiring contract for a 3rd scoring forward like Artest, or add one of the remaining free agents like Barnes, E. Jones, Patterson, or Posey.

avoidingtheclowns
07-31-2007, 07:35 PM
In terms of the KG trade setting JO's trade value, I'm starting to agree. Perhaps LA would be more likely to go for a JO/Foster for Odom/Bynum/Brown deal, or even JO/Dunleavy for Odom/Bynum/Brown (to help replace what they get from Odom).

they already have the rich man's mike dunleavy in luke walton. not gonna happen. troy murphy makes more sense than mdj

OnlyPacersLeft
07-31-2007, 07:35 PM
I have to say this though, as we're obviously out of the race for a while (I believe) ..... I can't convey here how badly I want KG to get a ring. Almost as badly as I wanted Reggie Miller to get one.

He absolutely deserves it. *sigh* .... here's to hoping.

-- Steve --

uh tell me the reason why KG "Deserves" a ring? cause he's a good player and suffered in Minnesota? well by that logic then Tmac deserves a ring.

blanket
07-31-2007, 07:47 PM
FYI, Lakers fans are having a field day over this quote from KG's press conference (avail. on nba.com):

KG: " I didn't really consider LA because the whole Kobe situation is up in the air..."

:lol2:

Young
07-31-2007, 07:51 PM
I believe they have 11 players under contract now.

Starting 5:

C: Perkins
PF: Garnett
SF: Pierce
SG: Allen
PG: Rondo

Bench:
PG: Gabe Pruitt
SG: Tony Allen
SF: Brandon Wallace
SF: Leon Powe
PF: Brian Scalabrane
C: Glenn Davis


Pretty awful bench they have. Tony Allen probably the only decent one but he is an unknown due to his injury he had. Not sure how he will come back from it.

I think that the Celtics need around 3 veteran players or so added to the team.

If I was Ainge i'd go after:

- Keith McLeod
Probably the best veteran point guard left on the free agent market and they need a veteran point guard. I guess they could make a run at Charlie Bell but my guess is he is out of their price range. Earl Boykins is also out there I guess.
- Ruben Patterson or Dahntay Jones
They could use a solid swingman. Either would be a good pickup. There is also James Posey, Jumaine Jones, and Jarvis Hayes.
- Brian Skinner
I have always liked him. Brings good energy. Certainly an upgrade over the backup bigs they currently have. Scot Pollard, Malik Allen, or Lawerane Roberts would help them out as well.

They really need a point guard and I think McLeod would be perfect for them. They also really need another big man, perferably two. A nice swingman off the bench wouldn't hurt either. They can get what they need thru free agency, IMO, and they will almost have to. They don't have much left to trade.

Anthem
07-31-2007, 07:52 PM
they already have the rich man's mike dunleavy in luke walton. not gonna happen. troy murphy makes more sense than mdj
Oh great gravy I wish. I'd consider taking back Radmanovic if they took Murphy.

Pacersfan46
07-31-2007, 07:55 PM
uh tell me the reason why KG "Deserves" a ring? cause he's a good player and suffered in Minnesota? well by that logic then Tmac deserves a ring.

You mean the same TMac that sat out games in Orlando because they weren't winning? That was whiney about it? That's a big difference. KG showed up every day. Did his job, and never complained. He never asked for a trade, or anything else some of these prima donna players do.

-- Steve --