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Pacers#1Fan
07-26-2007, 02:31 PM
I have loved his game since the day we drafted him. I think one of the reason's he hasn't panned out for us is he has really had no one to learn from. We have never had a "big man coach" or a pure center such as himself to show him the ropes. Injuries aside, if you look at why he hasn't played it's because of "rookie mistakes" such as the foul trouble and the way he tends to talk to the refs. I'm not saying all-star here or anything but I think Harrison has the ability to become one of the best centers in the NBA today. What's your take on this?

GrangerRanger
07-26-2007, 02:38 PM
I've thought the same thing for years. He wants to be an all star. He's basically said that many times. He just needs to work harder. He gets gitty when going into games because he wants to play so bad, that it results in foul trouble.

Jose Slaughter
07-26-2007, 02:38 PM
The guy is as close to being another Artest as we should ever have on this team again.

I was hoping for him to be the player we thought he could be as well. Sadly, he's a headcase that will never amount to more than he is now.

Unclebuck
07-26-2007, 03:00 PM
No, no, no, no, no, no.

Young
07-26-2007, 03:07 PM
My take it is insane at the love fest with DH.

He will not be one of the best centers. He will either be a backup center at his best or a journyman maybe. No where near a starter though.

It wouldn't matter that much if DH had a big man coach or not. People need to lose that idea. He would still suck. And what do you mean he hasn't had anyone to learn from? What about Jermaine? How about Scot Pollard and Jeff Foster David should have learned some defense from those two.

Get over the fact that we didn't land an all star center with the last pick of the 1rst round in 2004. He sucks and so what. Maybe he turns into an ok backup and if so great but he isn't anything right now. He has proven nothing to warrant playing time and has shown nothing for me to think that he will be one of the best centers in the NBA. I don't care if he had a great game or two in his career because that won't equal 82 great games in one season.

RWB
07-26-2007, 03:10 PM
I was an earlier supporter of DH as well. He can't mature and hopefully will be gone before the season starts.

carpediem024
07-26-2007, 03:49 PM
I remember he had a huge game against the Nets and he was injured too I think.

JayRedd
07-26-2007, 03:55 PM
I have no use for this guy anymore.

317Kim
07-26-2007, 03:59 PM
I had high hopes for David, but after a couple of seasons, I've started to doubt his ability. I know he can be a great player, but that could be a long wait.

Plus, when Ike came, I didn't feel there was a need for David as much.

Naptown_Seth
07-26-2007, 04:25 PM
I expect him to start most of next season, pull in 35mpg and basically dominate once JO is traded.

Per48 up till now suggests he might step up to put in 16 a night with 8 rebounds and 2 blocks a game. He's maturing into a natural leader as well. Heck, I'd build the entire roster around him.

(what does "he'd foul out twice over if he played 35 minutes" mean?)


This post brought to you by Are You Freaking Kidding Me, but you can just call me R.U. for short. ;)

Roy Munson
07-26-2007, 04:27 PM
I think Harrison has the ability to become one of the best centers in the NBA today. What's your take on this?

I think this is just about as nutty as all the JO-love that I read on here.

JO is an average center (he's lucky he plays in the east) he is a reluctant passer, does NOT make his teammates better, and plays with a low basketball IQ.

Harrison has no clue how to play without fouling, has mental and emotional issues that prevent him from keeping his composure in difficult situations, and will be lucky to be in the league in two more seasons.

JB's Breakout Year
07-26-2007, 04:32 PM
Seems like a good enough guy, so I still really root for him. He has some offensive skills and size, which to me should give him one more shot with the Pacers.

He can't seem to get out of his own way, though. If Foster gets traded, it may give him a chance. This year is make or break, whatever happens.

tinsley#11
07-26-2007, 04:42 PM
I just hope he doesnt have his best year yet and we do something stupid like offer him a 4 year deal with money he doesnt deserve.

GrangerRanger
07-26-2007, 04:45 PM
Have you ever watched Jermaine play? I dunno what you guys see but that is one of the most laziest guys in the world. He blocks a shot on one end and walks up the court while the other 4 guys wait for him to post up on the other end. Jermaine won't and probably hasn't even practiced with David before. Hell, Jermaine hardly ever practices against himself for that matter. Jeff Foster also doesn't know that much about blocking and scoring to teach a young player anything.

naptownmenace
07-26-2007, 04:54 PM
The guy is as close to being another Artest as we should ever have on this team again.

I was hoping for him to be the player we thought he could be as well. Sadly, he's a headcase that will never amount to more than he is now.

Yup, yup, yup. He needs a mental coach more than he needs a Bigman coach.

BlueNGold
07-26-2007, 06:49 PM
David does have good size and athleticism and some nice offensive moves, but he's fool's gold. Unfortunately, David has several issues in addition to mental/maturity issues that will hold him back.

I don't think he's ever caught up with the speed of the game on defense. All these years, he simply has used his great size without being tested. Some people interpret this as a basketball IQ problem. The truth is, David is very athletic but does not have good reaction times at all. You combine that with his immaturity and anger problem, and you have a big problem.

On offense, he has some nice individual moves, but something about his style bothers me. He does not seem to play within the team concept at all.

In any event, it's not that big of a deal because he barely plays.

CableKC
07-26-2007, 06:58 PM
If Foster was somehow traded in the offseason.........I figure that IF JONeal and Murphy play their standard 62-64 combined minutes at the PF/C rotation ( JONeal with 34-36 mpg and Murphy with 28 mpg )...that would leave a total of 34-36 minutes for Ike and Harrison to play.

Assuming that Ike and Harrison ( at the very least ) play the remaining Big Man minutes ( Ike getting maybe between 18-20 mpg and Harrison getting about 16 mpg ), could you tolerate Harrison's game if he was essentially brought in as as a garbage minutes Big Man to play a limited # of minutes?

At this point, we're not expecting Harrison's light bulb to switch on all of a sudden. Unfortunately, he is what he is....a 4th/5th Big Man rotational player that has a somewhat decent low-post offensive game that takes up space in the paint while playing limited defense and that gives the Pacers 5 quick fouls to throw at the other team's Big Man.

If that is the case, do you think that Harrison's ( somewhat decent ) offensive game could be used in JO'B's offense?

If the choice was to get some other Big Man Center stiff that is going to warm the bench and give Harrison a chance to play that same role ( basically behind the likes of Ike or even Granger or Shawne at the Frontcourt rotation), then I would keep Harrison.

As a 4th/5th rotational Big man...I don't expect much from him except to be a quick stop-gap Center to give JONeal and/or Murphy a rest. If he was the 1st Big Man off the bench...I would be more concerned...but he will likely play behind several Big Men...even Granger or Shawne....before he steps on the floor.

madison
07-26-2007, 09:03 PM
David is a 7' baby. Very immature. He hasn't the discipline to work nor the ability to play hurt. He's a complete nothing. I hope he does not take up space on the Pacer's roster next season. Those of you who 'love' him, do you attend games? If you had, you would have actually seen him watch the cheerleaders and crowd during time outs instead of listening to the coach. Have you not observed him fouling because he doesn't know how to play defense? Has it occured to you that he is not bright enough to learn from mistakes because he just keeps repeating the same ones over and over again? No wonder RC gave up on him and left him in civies most of last season. This guy is never going to contribute to any team in the NBA. I hope he knows how to cook a hamburger, because that's going to be his future.

BlueNGold
07-26-2007, 09:35 PM
David is a 7' baby. Very immature. He hasn't the discipline to work nor the ability to play hurt. He's a complete nothing. I hope he does not take up space on the Pacer's roster next season. Those of you who 'love' him, do you attend games? If you had, you would have actually seen him watch the cheerleaders and crowd during time outs instead of listening to the coach? Have you not observed him fouling because he doesn't know how to play defense? Has it occured to you that he is not bright enough to learn from mistakes because he just keeps repeating the same ones over and over again? No wonder RC gave up on him and left him in civies most of last season. This guy is never going to contribute to any team in the NBA. I hope he know how to cook a hamburger, because that's going to be his future.

My man, you are on a streak. A bit more brutal than I, but truer words have not been typed.

Disclosure: I was high on David his first couple years. :blush:

SoupIsGood
07-26-2007, 10:05 PM
:)

Hulkster rocks.

Mourning
07-26-2007, 11:43 PM
(what does "he'd foul out twice over if he played 35 minutes" mean?)


This post brought to you by Are You Freaking Kidding Me, but you can just call me R.U. for short. ;)

:lol:

maragin
07-27-2007, 12:38 AM
Put him outside on the day the garbage guys come and get old couches and broken bedframes.

carpediem024
07-27-2007, 01:03 AM
That Kinetico water commercial makes me :laugh:

It's like they're doing it on purpose.

Peck
07-27-2007, 02:14 AM
The only person who might have been higher than me on David early on was S.I.G.

I thought, what the hell, he was the last pick in the first round so anything you get is a bonus.

Then he came in and showed not only did he have size but he had dexterity to go along with it.

He was physical, something that we desperately lacked (still do btw) and he seemed to have a clue on how to shoot.

In fact the first 3-4 months he got playing time I really honestly thought we had our starting center for the future.

However I have never been more dissapointed in a player in my life. He not only has not improved, he has gotten worse each and every season since.

Now we know that he not only has problems on the floor he has problems off of the floor as well, not leagle thank God (not yet anyway).

This is what perplexes the heck out of me.

They said he was lazy coming out of college. I don't think the guy has left Indy since he was drafted. He stayed and worked with the coaching staff in the off-season. He has lost a lot of the fat he was carrying around.

But it's all for naught. The guy just has flatley sucked.

I want to blame management for not getting a big man coach. I want to blame the makeup of the team for giving him such poor examples. I want to blame Carlisle for not giving him a full chance.

However those are all just excuses. David has done this to himself.

His size alone makes me want to give him another chance but if the Pacers said that they had to cut him to make room for someone else I wouldn't shed a tear either.

indygeezer
07-27-2007, 07:00 AM
I once shocked Peck at a forum get together by predicting that DH would be our starting C by Christmas (I think he forgets how big I supported DH).

I'm in the "He shoulda hada Big Man Coach" camp. Perhaps a true mentor could have helped him with ALL of his issues.

I'll give him another half-season but come trade deadline, I believe he'll have value as an expiring contract. (Qualifying offer for 08-09 is 2Mill)

Skaut_Ech
07-27-2007, 08:25 AM
Don't feel bad, geezer. I was right there with you in your X-mas acessment. I wish I could use madison's post as my sig, but it's too long. He has nailed DH to a "t".

I can't tell you how badly I want David gone. He rbings absolutely nothing to our team. He doesn't learn. Doesn't help his teammates and most of all, just doesn't care. He just punches that timeclock and collects his check. Employee #13 has got to go!

ChicagoJ
07-27-2007, 03:31 PM
David can still become a legit starting center in the NBA.

He has unstoppable moves from the block - an impossible to defend hook shot, his offensive footwork is sufficient, he has soft hands (he can actually catch the ball.)

He needs a substantial amount of coaching to overcome his footwork problems at the defensive end of the court. So he uses his hands too much and gets in foul trouble.

And when that happens, he's no longer David Harrison, he's the "hulk" and simmering out of control.

If he can't fix those things, his days are numbered.

He slipped in the draft because of concerns about conditioning and work ethic. He's stayed in Indy all summer his first two years, dedicated himself to being in shape, went to summer camp when he wasn't required to, etc. I don't see how people question his work ethic.

He may not have the capacity to fix his on-court habits that keep him off the court. And if so, that's too bad, because he *can* be a real monster in the paint. Or, unfortunately, he could also be a real monster.

I'm not ready to give up on him. But I was hoping the Pacers would provide him a structure to grow and turn into an NBA player. Right now, the Pacers need to focus on drafting, trading for, and signing "complete players", not projects, because they aren't showing any ability to develop players.

I can't believe what I'm about to type, but I wish David had been coached by Isiah/ Tree Rollins, and not by Rick. At least Isiah, Aguirre, and Rollins could develop boys into ballplayers, although game plan was not a strong point to say the least. If David had a legit coach (and I know you are about to scream, btown) and showed no progress, I could understand the "he's a bum and he's never going to get any better" mindset. But not now, its too early.

It takes centers not named Shaq, Alcinder, or Wilt a long time to develop.

Naptown_Seth
07-27-2007, 03:36 PM
Peck, I felt the same way as you did. David has earned my contempt. If he feels like putting in the effort he could fix that and win my respect, but I'm no longer holding my breath.

Unlike Geezer I don't think it's a big man coach issue. I'm with Madison, it's a mentality issue. He's incredibly hot-headed and seemingly dumb on defense. His offense post moves are the one thing in his game that is outstanding, that's the least of what needs to be fixed with his game. Getting post position, okay, he's no Ike in that regard, but if he gets the ball near the lane you've got points.

Then he'll get a foul swatting at the PG for a ridiculous mid-court steal attempt on the way back up court for no apparent reason. Ugh.

Naptown_Seth
07-27-2007, 03:56 PM
It takes centers not named Shaq, Alcinder, or Wilt a long time to develop.
Yeah, just when is Dwight Howard going to start producing results.

Chandler - his numbers hit his per minute rate almost completely in year 2.

Camby - at 3.7 blocks/7.4 boards year 2, though his 10+ rebounding rate did take a few more years to come around

Duncan - see Howard

Bosh - 17/9 year 2

Ilguaskus - 14/9 year 1, 15/9 year 2 (and he was only 22 in year 1 himself)

Kaman - basically hit his per minute numbers year 1, with MPG increases of each year bumping up his totals, though he was 22 mpg even in year 1.

Brad Miller went undrafted. Walked into Hornets camp and played his way onto the team. That first year he was a 56% guy but limited to 12 MPG, and is foul rate suggested he wouldn't last 35 minutes a night anyway. But by year 3 that was totally under control and he was putting in 9/7 which is almost his career average.


At this point I got bored. It's a big myth that bigs take any more time than other players. AGE and TALENT have more to do with it than anything, as well as personality (does Nash prove it takes time to develop PGs?). There are too many players who've played under too many different coaches to blame it simply on coaching circumstances. If Harrison was more like these other guys he'd have shown something last season, instead of looking worse than ever.

He's had plenty of PT opportunities due to injuries and suspensions the last few years. A lot more than he'd get with other teams.

People keep blaming Rick like there are all these examples of guys that leave Rick's teams and go on to really prove themselves. Me, I put my money in the Fred Jones/James White camp when it comes to David "finally getting a chance" elsewhere.

owl
07-27-2007, 03:56 PM
Unfortunately the "Hulk" has the "Hulks" brain and not David Banners.
It really is too bad because he could be a really good player.
On draft night I was ecstatic he was available but alas he has totally
deflated any enthusiasm I had left for him as a player.

Lord Helmet
07-27-2007, 04:02 PM
David Harrison needs to be off of this team.

ASAP.

Alpolloloco
07-28-2007, 12:48 AM
Why?

He has only one year at 1m to go on his contract and we can still use a big body when JO gets injured again (assuming Jermaine is on our roster next year).

NapTonius Monk
07-28-2007, 08:11 AM
I think I will only refer to the player formerly known as David Harrison by the following symbols:

:swear::hissyfit:

Speaking of which, I would shed no tears if they included :swear: :hissyfit: in a deal.