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BlueNGold
07-24-2007, 11:01 PM
Ok, class. It's time for your feedback on Larry Bird, President of Basketball Operations for the Indiana Pacers. Please grade him as you see fit based on his performance on the management team. No incompletes allowed.

I know grading him with Donnie standing in the shadows might be difficult, but do the best you can!

rexnom
07-24-2007, 11:09 PM
I was very, very nice. He has done nothing deserving of a C. I just figure we need to give him one year on his own to fully determine his capabilities as a GM. Overall, our front office is HORRIBLE though. If it wasn't for Hermione's namesake, our franchise would be going nowhere...fast.

Hoop
07-24-2007, 11:11 PM
The one thing we'll never know is how much input Donnie has had the last few seasons. Some of the mess could be more Donnie's than Bird's. Bird can not be fully judged till Donnie retires. Can he?

JayRedd
07-24-2007, 11:34 PM
I choose C+...."Step your game up, buddy."

Kegboy
07-24-2007, 11:41 PM
If I could give him a G or an H or a Q for that matter, I would.

But I know, I know, Donnie's really been doing his homework for him. That's Larry's fault, it's still his name on the paper.

Big Smooth
07-25-2007, 12:19 AM
I went with "good for a year but not looking great" or however it was worded. I'm not enthralled with Bird at this point but I'll give him one more year before completely bagging on him and if the P's are indeed on the upswing one year from now then I can give credit where it is due.

rabid
07-25-2007, 12:28 AM
Yeah I chose the 1-year option as well. To be honest I'm, uh, more than a little concerned at this point. We need a lot more than a middle-of-the-road coach and some bench tweaks.

Trader Joe
07-25-2007, 01:40 AM
F. For him and Donnie and whoever else is control. Don't care if Jesus himself made these decisions. I'd give him an F.

Jose Slaughter
07-25-2007, 02:39 AM
If Bird walked it liked he talked it, Tinsley would have had his sorry *** outta here long before now.

Peck
07-25-2007, 02:59 AM
If Bird walked it liked he talked it, Tinsley would have had his sorry *** outta here long before now.

In fairness though, how much control over that has he had?

However I hear what you are saying & it's hard to reconcile the take no crap hardliner who will whip our players into shape person who we thought we were getting with the enabler that he has become.

Again though, I do want to point out that coddling the players is a Walsh M.O. so again, until he @ss is out the door I can't judge Larry Bird fairly.

Rajah Brown
07-25-2007, 08:24 AM
I voted one more year, etc. I agree that until DW heads to the
wild blue yonder, it's tough to judge LB. Of course, the prospect
of LB on his own is really scary. Walsh's sometimes, seemingly,
infinite patience is, while a double-edged sword, an integral
part of being a successful NBA GM. I'm afraid LB is missing
that key tool in his box.

When an NBA GM says "I want to win right now", he may be
indicating that he's not capable of the kind of patience it
often takes to put the pieces together to eventually compete
at the highest level again.

Major Cold
07-25-2007, 09:08 AM
As pacers fans our motto should be, One More Year.

Bender breaking out...one more year
Artest shaping up....one more year
Reggie deciding to retire...one more year
Pacers underachieving.....one more year

JB's Breakout Year
07-25-2007, 09:11 AM
I voted one more year, etc. I agree that until DW heads to the
wild blue yonder, it's tough to judge LB. Of course, the prospect
of LB on his own is really scary. Walsh's sometimes, seemingly,
infinite patience is, while a double-edged sword, an integral
part of being a successful NBA GM. I'm afraid LB is missing
that key tool in his box.

When an NBA GM says "I want to win right now", he may be
indicating that he's not capable of the kind of patience it
often takes to put the pieces together to eventually compete
at the highest level again.
I think Bird has shown patience. We have a pretty young core of players (Granger, Williams, Dunleavy, Jr.)that he seems willing to let develop. He's avoided (at least so far) the temptation to make a big splashy trade, unlike teams like the Celtics, who didn't become contenders even by adding a star like Ray Allen.

He's also held on to JO to this point, which hopefully means that he's waiting for the best deal he can get. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

I read the "I expect the Playoffs this year" stuff more as competitiveness than impatience. I'm clearly in the minority as a Bird backer on this board, but I like the team he is putting together. He's filling the roster with players I can root for. It's not a finished product, but I like the pieces he's added to this point.

BobbyMac
07-25-2007, 11:34 AM
I think he's done ok, Im not read to kill him off. I think the next 3 years will be interesting to see where we go.

Bball
07-25-2007, 11:44 AM
If there was a 'clean house' option I'd chose it because Walsh, Bird, Morway, et al have not shown the ability as a collective group to do anything but look like a committee of madness with no singular vision of anything.

But just singling out Larry Bird isn't fair.

I looked up "Half-a$$" in the dictionary and it had the Pacers new logo by it. Even when it comes to a change at the top we can only do it half-a$$ed. If Larry is fully in charge, what is Walsh doing? Is Morway still in the mix? How many vice presidents of "something or other" do we have?

Here's an idea: Let's install one guy at the top, have the Simons get out of the way, and see where it takes us. We know where the management consortium has taken us.

-Bball

avoidingtheclowns
07-25-2007, 11:45 AM
some of the mess has been self-inflicted, some of it has been out of his control. C, but you've got a short rope at this point buddy.

ABADays
07-25-2007, 02:13 PM
I voted C but have often stated I think TPTB have done a fairly good job in getting talent. It's the talent that has let down the franchise. We didn't measure stupidity against talent. The franchise hand was wrongly forced into situations no team needs to be put in.

Oneal07
07-25-2007, 02:17 PM
I'll grade him at the end of this upcoming season!!

GrangerRanger
07-25-2007, 02:31 PM
Some of this is in no way Larry Bird's fault.

1.) How did he induce the Brawl to happen? Was he sitting on Ben Wallace's and the guy that threw the bottle's shoulder saying, push and throw? Don't think so. Was he the guy that banned 4 of our players for lengthy amounts of time while leaving the Pistons with 10 game suspension(may have been 4 dunno) on a guy that started the whole mess?

2.) Was he the guy that told Ron Artest to leave? Nah. Ron Artest is just a freaking bi-polar person that needs to be in a insane Asylum. I mean, a few weeks ago there was even a article about him wanting to come back to Indiana if they would take him back after his contract is up in Sac. Then a week later "Yeah, I want to finish my career a King". Wtf?! Helloooooo! Thats a form of Bi polar.

3.) Did Larry Bird make Stephen Jackson sware that he would shape up and a week later, after a full day at training camp mind you, shoot 4 bullets into the air at a Indianapolis Strip Club. Nah. Don't think so. That's one reason we traded him. We traded a thug for decent, respectible talent. We may have to worry about his inconsistancy on the court, but I would take Mike's actions off the court any day. Who wants a thug on their team?

The trade with Golden State was infact pretty good. Sure we probably lost Keith, but to tell you the truth, he wasn't even that good. Shaky at bests, indiscisive at times. Jumpshot was average best. Say all you want about Jamal TInsley but he's still alot better then Keith. Omg, it's like comparing Keyon Martin to Chris Mills. We got Diogu who even people on these forums have said will be the next Pacer's 20, 10 guy. And Troy Murphy. Sure, he has the most ackward looking jumpshot I have ever seen, his nose is bigger then a 12 inch hot dog, and he looks like a older McCauley Calkin, but he can shoot the lights out of the ball. 20 feet out in is almost deadly.

4.) How did he know that James White was not going to be good? That's why he traded for him. He wanted to bring in more Atheletism to complemente O'neal. It could have also been a move because he knew that they would not resign Fred Jones.

Stanko. What can I say about this guy? I dunno. I've never seen him play besides a layup on fastbreak and a dunk. But still, untill you seen this kid play why do you guys say stuff about him? He's good enough to be drafted 39th overall by the HEAT. Thats tells you one thing, someone in there front office seen something, and so did ours. Please don't be so quick to throw stones when you haven't even seen someone perform.

5.) Fans. It seems that People in Indiana are very supportive of their teams when their up and unsupportive of their teams when their down. Why is this? I don't care if Larry Bird would go out tomurrow, trade Jermaine O'neal to the Forth Worth Flyers for their last guy on the bench. I just want to see my team play the game, and I take pride in knowing that my state has a team. Every season since I started watching Pacer's Basketball has been a major letdown. But instead of whining about it on Forums, I've stayed behind them in their darkest hour ( which is now, their first losing season in 10 years :rolleyes:) and I still can't wait until next season. When I can get onto my PS3 and play NBA Live 08, swishing threes with Travis Diener.

I think the problem is that the Fans expect to much of their franchises. Every year going into a season, I don't expect anything of the team besides to enjoy watching them play. I never think that they will win a Championship so when they go 35-47 I am not mad. Last year, and the year before that I didn't even think the Cotls would win a championship, nor did I care. I just liked Marvin running his routes, Addai ammerging as the next Edge, and Payton tearing up defences as usual. I watched every game of the Pacer's last season. 30 of the games I watched at Conseco. I never once thought about not watching them because they were losing.

So, please, just stay behind them?

6.) The NBA is a marketing agency. Teams like the Pacers and Bucks are small market teams. What do you think would happen if the Pacers won it with their current team. The NBA would in fect lose money. The only reason Payton won it last year was because: heart, grit, and fame. Payton, any way you look at it is the biggest Role Model in the NFL. I'm not saying the Pacers can't win it, but it's highly unlikely.

Overall Grade - C+

DisplacedKnick
07-25-2007, 02:47 PM
I'm not gonna vote - not my team. But I'd give him a D. Nobody could have anticipated the brawl but the response to it, the transactions since, etc., have been very poor IMO. Right now you're in the bottom third of the league in talent and you have one of the poorest salary situations in the league. I'd put an F except Walsh needs to go first - his time's past.

wilcoxfunk
07-25-2007, 03:11 PM
D vote here. With every move, things just continue to get worse. Not sure if it's worth waiting it out for a scrub like Kareem Rush to step in and become a threat.

avoidingtheclowns
07-25-2007, 03:42 PM
Some of this is in no way Larry Bird's fault.

1.) How did he induce the Brawl to happen? Was he sitting on Ben Wallace's and the guy that threw the bottle's shoulder saying, push and throw? Don't think so. Was he the guy that banned 4 of our players for lengthy amounts of time while leaving the Pistons with 10 game suspension(may have been 4 dunno) on a guy that started the whole mess?

no larry isn't directly responsible for the brawl... but rick asked for ron to be traded long before the brawl and TPTB told him to coach the rest of the team, they'd worry about ron. so larry is responsible for the brawl in the sense that he along with walsh and the simons didn't diffuse the bomb some believed was bound to explode sooner or later. not only that but he'd already had meltdowns during the season and playoffs before (miami) so they knew he was a headcase.


2.) Was he the guy that told Ron Artest to leave? Nah. Ron Artest is just a freaking bi-polar person that needs to be in a insane Asylum. I mean, a few weeks ago there was even a article about him wanting to come back to Indiana if they would take him back after his contract is up in Sac. Then a week later "Yeah, I want to finish my career a King". Wtf?! Helloooooo! Thats a form of Bi polar.

this stems from the previous answer... but they could have tried trading him the summer after the brawl season. there is quite a bit of logic to playing ron to increase his value... but didn't sit ron down and say "Look, you want to go, we want you to go. The best way to get out of here is keep your head on and shut your f&#king mouth." no one is denying that ron has significant psychological issues but larry helped keep him around.


4.) How did he know that James White was not going to be good? That's why he traded for him. He wanted to bring in more Atheletism to complemente O'neal. It could have also been a move because he knew that they would not resign Fred Jones.

but he gave up a bunch of picks to get him. some people here don't value 2nd round picks, i tend to look at them as better to have than not have.


Stanko. What can I say about this guy? I dunno. I've never seen him play besides a layup on fastbreak and a dunk. But still, untill you seen this kid play why do you guys say stuff about him? He's good enough to be drafted 39th overall by the HEAT. Thats tells you one thing, someone in there front office seen something, and so did ours. Please don't be so quick to throw stones when you haven't even seen someone perform.

its not stanko per se... its that bird has said we're hoping to win now. stanko isn't ready now. he'll be ready in 3-4 years (maybe). he is a move a rebuilding team would make, and were we committed to rebuilding i doubt there would be much fuss about the allstar from mostar. meanwhile demetrius nichols and derrik byars (both shooters) were both still on the board or at least available to be traded for. those two had the potential to help this season. so it feels like a hollow wasted move to many.

slyder
07-25-2007, 06:42 PM
C minus here

Naptown_Seth
07-25-2007, 06:58 PM
In fairness though, how much control over that has he had?

However I hear what you are saying & it's hard to reconcile the take no crap hardliner who will whip our players into shape person who we thought we were getting with the enabler that he has become.

Again though, I do want to point out that coddling the players is a Walsh M.O. so again, until he @ss is out the door I can't judge Larry Bird fairly.
That's why I ripped on him prior to Rick being shown the door. Bird in the paper "things are too lax, players are getting away with too much" vs. Bird as GM "what can I do, it's Rick's team, it's not like I have any say in the matter".

If he thought Rick lost control then why not take control himself first off, shut down the crap, then rip into Carlisle in his office?

Think of it this way, the Burger King crew is acting the fool when the district manager walks in. What's he do, let it go on and tell the PO'd customers it's the manager's show to run however he wants, even if it costs the company money? Hell no he doesn't. Heads start rolling when the boss' boss walks in the door.

That has irked me to no end the last few years, how Rick somehow let it get out of control yet no one else in the org had the authority or power to tell a player like Tinsley that if he isn't going to show up on time he can enjoy some bench time and a few fines.

OnlyPacersLeft
07-25-2007, 08:39 PM
if we keep JO i give em an A for being smart...trade him? F for what The F are you doing!

BlueNGold
07-25-2007, 08:54 PM
Well, after 93 votes Mr. Bird would receive a D....specifically a 1.6 GPA. Although I gave him a C, that was a nice sampling of views and I cannot argue with the results.

Whether it's Indiana State University or the Indiana Pacers, that's not good enough. So, it's pretty clear the JO trade could make or break Bird-man. Let's all hope it's a net positive or an even trade...or it could get really ugly for Bird, really fast.

BlueNGold
12-06-2008, 09:56 PM
.bump

It would be interesting to see how this poll would turn out today. I think Larry has done some things to redeem himself.

Infinite MAN_force
12-06-2008, 10:25 PM
I think I would easily raise the C I gave him to a B.

Spirit
12-06-2008, 10:27 PM
D for not firing O'Loser.

AesopRockOn
12-07-2008, 11:39 PM
I miss OPL.

Raoul Duke
12-08-2008, 12:22 AM
YES! Bumping old threads to confuse people!!!!!!