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diamonddave00
07-21-2007, 01:38 AM
http://www.fdlreporter.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/FON01/707200685/1310/FONsports

Posted July 20, 2007


Diener's three-year deal with Indiana worth $4.9 million, father says

Former Marquette standout expected to sign contract early next week

By Carlos Muñoz
The Reporter cmunoz@fdlreporter.com


It will be easier for June Diener to see her grandson play next season.


Travis Diener, a Fond du Lac native, is set to sign a three-year contract to play point guard for the Indiana Pacers, and the deal is expected to be worth $4.9 million, his father, Bob Diener, told The Reporter late Thursday.


Diener, a former Goodrich High School and Marquette University standout, will sign the deal over the weekend pending a passed physical, his father said. The contract includes a player option to void the contract after the second year.


"I think it's great," said June Diener, whose grandson is expected to be the backup point guard for Indiana after two years with Orlando. "I'm so happy he's closer to home now. He's really deserved it. He's worked hard for this.


"He wants to play. He didn't want to sit on the bench."
The deal will make Diener financially secure, but Bob Diener said it isn't the only reason his son is going to the Pacers.


"Money was secondary," said Bob Diener, whose son was unavailable for comment Thursday.


"He wanted an opportunity to play. "The Pacers seemed like a good opportunity to prove himself."


Diener played 49 games last season for the Orlando Magic, who drafted him with the 38th overall pick in the second round of the 2005 NBA Draft. He averaged 3.8 points a game and shot 81 percent from the foul line.


But he did not play in 115 of 164 regular-season games for the Magic, which is well-stocked at guard with J.J. Redick, Carlos Arroyo, Keyon Dooling and Jameer Nelson.


Diener is expected to backup starting Pacers point guard Jamaal Tinsley.


"That's the way everything looks right now," Bob Diener said. "If you're a backup, you're only one play from being a starter.


"From a basketball standpoint, it's a really good situation for him. He's going in knowing he'll have an opportunity to play. Last year, when he got the opportunity he more than proved himself."


Diener's former high school coach and uncle, Dick Diener said, "I think he's got an opportunity there to become the backup point guard and maybe, if the situation changes, end up starting.


"The more they see of him, they'll find out he just doesn't make mistakes. He's got a great basketball IQ, and he can shoot with anybody in the league."
The Pacers saw enough to offer Diener a guaranteed three-year contract.


"They are a team that's shown that they want him there for more than a couple years," said Drake Diener, Travis' cousin, who recently finished a stint in the NBA Summer League with the Houston Rockets.


"Any time a team commits to a guy and goes out of their way to sign a player, it shows they want him involved."

Travis Diener's family will get involved by swarming to Conseco Fieldhouse in Indianapolis to watch him play. It is about a six-hour drive from Fond du Lac.

"It's an exciting time," Dick Diener said. "It's a great opportunity. (Pacers executive) Larry Bird has liked Travis since he came out of college.


"The family will get to see him more, as well as anyone else that is a fan of him from Wisconsin. He'll be playing in Milwaukee (and) Chicago, and Indianapolis isn't that long of a drive."

The Pacers visit Milwaukee often as both teams are in the Eastern Conference Central Division.Bob Diener said his son has proved he deserves a chance to play.

"He's always had his doubters his whole life," he said. "He'll more than prove himself. Larry Bird, all them guys know what he can do."

Raskolnikov
07-21-2007, 04:19 AM
he just doesn't make mistakes
I think this will prove to be an excellent signing....:)

able
07-21-2007, 05:10 AM
Well his family lives in lala-land, or they're smoking some weird stuff.

I think he has more then 1 play to go to become a starter :D

Unclebuck
07-21-2007, 08:03 AM
He can't be any worse than Saras, and we got Travis a lot cheaper, I'm interested to see how he does. I just wish his defense was better though

Y2J
07-21-2007, 08:09 AM
Watcha gonna do when Dienermania runs wild on you?!

BlueNGold
07-21-2007, 08:10 AM
He can't be any worse than Saras, and we got him a lot cheaper, I'm interested to see how he does. I just wish his defense was better

Saras was slow. This guy is cat quick and will not have the same problems that Saras had with pressure defense.

He will have problems defending bigger guards though. However, I don't think Saras was that much worse than Tinsley on defense. He started to improve that area before he was traded IMO. Diener should be similar on D but better on O. I like the pickup.

BTW, the Pacers seem to be pinching the pennies with some of these signings. I guess that's understandable.

Will Galen
07-21-2007, 08:49 AM
Diener's signing next week should make the Pacers payroll look like this,

Pacer Payroll of 09-21-07.
Player.....................2007-08
Jermaine O'Neal........$19,728,000
Troy Murphy.............$9,206,349
Mike Dunleavy..........$8,219,008
Marquis Daniels.........$6,373,900
Jamaal Tinsley............$6,300,000
Jeff Foster.................$5,500,000
Ike Diogu..................$2,286,360
Danny Granger..........$1,516,800
Travis Diener............$1,500,000(a)
Shawne Williams........$1,470,360
David Harrison...........$1,734,316
Kareem Rush.............$770,610 (b)
Stephen Graham.........$770,610
Guaranteed................$100,000 (c)
----------------------------
Total................$65,476,313..........($2,388, 687) under the luxury tax

The NBA salary cap for 2006-07 is $55,630,000.
The luxury tax threshold is $67,865,000
The Mid-level exception is $5,356,000
---

(a) Travis Diener according to fdlreporter.com will make $4.9 million over three years. My guess is that works out thus;

$1,500,000
$1,657,500
$1,815,000
_________
$4,972,500

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=32420

Unclebuck
07-21-2007, 08:52 AM
Saras was slow. This guy is cat quick and will not have the same problems that Saras had with pressure defense.

He will have problems defending bigger guards though. However, I don't think Saras was that much worse than Tinsley on defense. He started to improve that area before he was traded IMO. Diener should be similar on D but better on O. I like the pickup.

BTW, the Pacers seem to be pinching the pennies with some of these signings. I guess that's understandable.

If Trav is cat quick, then he can learn to play defense, the size issue is not a big concern for me

Mourning
07-21-2007, 08:59 AM
I thought his lateral quickeness wasnt that superb?

Anyway, I can live with our two signings so far. What I can NOT live with is is this beying the end of our summer. More needs to be done and I'm not talking about something along the lines of moving Foster here.

Jamaal can stay too (for now) IMO. Wanted him out, but I'm willing to give it a chance and see what JOB can do with him.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

mildlysane
07-21-2007, 08:59 AM
Well his family lives in lala-land, or they're smoking some weird stuff.

I think he has more then 1 play to go to become a starter :D

Maybe they were thinking of the Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding incident!:D

BlueNGold
07-21-2007, 09:12 AM
If Trav is cat quick, then he can learn to play defense, the size issue is not a big concern for me

At least one writer describes him as "cat quick".

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2518659

I think I've seen him play a couple times, but didn't pay much attention. I have read reviews on him and there is no indication of him being slow. The knocks are on his physical strength. He reportedly also has a cat quick release.

Speed
07-21-2007, 09:15 AM
At least one writer describes him as "cat quick".

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2518659

I think I've seen him play a couple times, but didn't pay much attention. I have read reviews on him and there is no indication of him being slow. The knocks are on his physical strength. He reportedly also has a cat quick release.


What is his face doing in that photo on the link.... is that a smile????!?!?!? He'll have to stop doing that, I don't think I've seen a Pacer smile who wasn't named Armstrong, in about 3 years. I may think he's playing for the other team if he does that too much.

Unclebuck
07-21-2007, 09:15 AM
At least one writer describes him as "cat quick".

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2518659

I think I've seen him play a couple times, but didn't pay much attention. I have read reviews on him and there is no indication of him being slow. The knocks are on his physical strength. He reportedly also has a cat quick release.

This article is worth reading.

Diener's on, Bird sees ROY for Morrison

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By John Denton
Special to ESPN.com

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The 6-foot-nothing, buck-70-pound guard with the floppy hair and boyish looks was doing his best Steve Nash impersonation Thursday -- right down to the eye-popping, jaw-dropping statistics.
Only these 34 points, seven 3-pointers, five assists and four rebounds didn't come from first-round picks Tyrus Thomas or Marcus Williams.


You can only hope to contain Travis Diener in Orlando -- he dropped 34 on the Bulls.
Instead, it was all-but-forgotten Orlando Magic guard Travis Diener, who was playing the role of giant killer and looking so very much like Nash the way he controlled every aspect of Thursday's 93-87 defeat of Chicago.

Charlotte rookie Adam Morrison is the unquestioned star of this week's Pepsi Pro Summer League in Orlando (and a primary reason why the Magic's Web site has been inundated with more than 1 million visitors this week). But quite possibly no player has caused more of a stir than the player who could hardly get on the floor this past season for the Magic.

Diener made 11 of his 16 shots, seven of his 10 3-pointers and five free throws against Chicago's Aaron Miles, Jackie Manuel and Eddie Basden. Of course, that's not exactly the starting lineup in the next NBA All-Star Game, but virtually no one has been able to slow down the cat-quick Diener this week. Through four games, he's averaging 20.3 points, 6.5 assists and 4.0 rebounds a game.

Most importantly to Magic fans who just endured a season and a half of Steve Francis' dribble-dribble-dribble-turnover routine, Diener has turned the ball over exactly four times in four games.

Amazingly, Diener, the smallest guy on the court most of the time, has played with the most swagger. Getting that confidence back after playing just 23 games this past season has been a work in progress.

"My confidence is as high as it's ever been,'' Diener said. "I know that I can play at this level and contribute to a team. I'm just happy I've had this chance, and I just want to keep playing the way I'm playing.''

Because he has just a partial guarantee in his contract, it's no certainty that he will be back with the Magic next season. And even if he is, he'll likely be stuck behind Jameer Nelson and Carlos Arroyo for minutes at point guard.

But he knows considering the way he's played this week, he belongs in the NBA -- even if he's smaller than practically everyone else around him.

"I'm just having fun out there, and I think it shows,'' he said.

REST STOP
Playing four games in the past four days is starting to take its toll on the players. First-round picks Thabo Sefolosha (Bulls) and Shawne Williams (Pacers) didn't play Thursday because of back and hamstring injuries.

Diener likely will sit out Friday because of a nagging foot injury, and Sean May could rest his surgically repaired left knee after four strong days.

May, the 13th pick of the 2005 draft, has consistently been the best big man in this camp. He poured in another 32 points Thursday on 11 of 18 shooting.

"I'm sure people came into this camp expecting me to be timid after having knee surgery, but I've been working hard since December getting ready for this,'' May said. "I'm just trying to prove that I'm not only the player I was before the Bobcats drafted me; I've actually added quite a bit to my game and I'm a better player.''

Evan_The_Dude
07-21-2007, 09:25 AM
"Amazingly, Diener, the smallest guy on the court most of the time, has played with the most swagger."

I like that line.

BlueNGold
07-21-2007, 09:28 AM
What is his face doing in that photo on the link.... is that a smile????!?!?!? He'll have to stop doing that, I don't think I've seen a Pacer smile who wasn't named Armstrong, in about 3 years. I may think he's playing for the other team if he does that too much.

I have read some Orlando message boards, and apparently the Magic never gave him a chance. It's pretty clear that when he's on, he can fill it up.

He also apparently has some leadership skills and confidence. It will be interesting to see how he does.

Speed
07-21-2007, 10:12 AM
I have read some Orlando message boards, and apparently the Magic never gave him a chance. It's pretty clear that when he's on, he can fill it up.

He also apparently has some leadership skills and confidence. It will be interesting to see how he does.


You hope that guys like him and Obie can bring this group up and not work the other way around where they get beaten down. Like AJ said change the Coulture, so to speak.

Kegboy
07-21-2007, 10:30 AM
Buck, that article's been posted 3 times, including once by me. :chuckle:

Kegboy
07-21-2007, 10:34 AM
As for the signing, so is that the LLE we used? Obviously it's not a min contract.

bellisimo
07-21-2007, 10:37 AM
you know after reading all these articles about Rush and Diener, its like as if the Pacers are a tryout organization these days - money is not the issue - but the Pacers will provide the opportunity for us to showcase our talent to go to a better team.... *sigh*

Kegboy
07-21-2007, 10:50 AM
It just hit me, we're paying him $4.9M, and he's played in 49 games, at 10 minutes a game. So we're paying him $10,000 based on each minute he's played so far.

:losangeles:

Speed
07-21-2007, 11:00 AM
http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider/

Mike Wells

I could only shake my head and laugh when I found out the Pacers had agreed to a three-year deal with point guard Travis Diener.

Why was I laughing?

I was talking to a Pacers official earlier this week about the point guard situation when he said, “I’ve seen the names you’ve put in the paper. We’ve got a person in mind and he’s going to surprise a lot of people.”

I was surprised to hear it was Diener. I looked at Diener’s name earlier this month, but I didn’t think he would be somebody that the Pacers would go after to be Jamaal Tinsley’s backup.

When you look at it, though, Diener is the type of player that fits into Jim O’Brien’s system.

Diener gives the Pacers another 3-point shooting threat and his motor is always in overdrive. He’ll have trouble defending players like Jason Kidd and Chauncey Billups. O’Brien has the option of using Marquis Daniels at the point in those situations.

Do you think the Pacers made a smart decision by giving Diener a three-year deal? If not, who do you think they should have went after on the free agent market?

Naptown_Seth
07-21-2007, 11:08 AM
Can I just ask something, seriously? If the Pistons or Heat sign him does this board go "oh man, that's the piece, he's going to have a big impact"?

Personally I don't think so. I think Rush at least has the chance to turn things around for himself, but I don't see Diener as about to be a lot more than he's already been.


As for "getting a chance", it is true that he didn't get to play much. However I ran his per35 numbers overall, and then only for games where he got at least 10, 12, and 15 minutes (for last season only). Most of his PT came in games where he got at least 15 minutes and in fact using only those games gave him somewhat WORSE numbers.

In other words playing longer in a game didn't help him "get going" as is often suggested with some bench guys (ahem, Saras lovers I'm looking at you).

So what could you expect from Diener based on last season? 35 minutes of his 15+ minutes games gives you:

Pp35 - 10.7
FG% 41.4
FT% 76.9
3P% 35.1
Ap35 - 2.6
Rp35 - 1.8
STLp35 - 0.5
TOp35 - 0.6

Again, that him getting STARTER minutes, not off the bench. I guess I can live with that at less than $2m per, but obviously he's only going to be a mild impact off the bench at that rate.

Of course there is always MIP. My problem there is that he's a mature player that seems to have disciplined his way to this caliber of game. Doesn't seem like there is a lot more waiting to burst threw as soon as he figures it out.


I suppose UB is right, shouldn't be worse than Saras, especially considering the contract. Except assists where he has been well behind what Saras did, or AJ, Army and of course Tinsley. But then he doesn't turn the ball over at all. No reward and no risk.

Oneal07
07-21-2007, 11:27 AM
you know after reading all these articles about Rush and Diener, its like as if the Pacers are a tryout organization these days - money is not the issue - but the Pacers will provide the opportunity for us to showcase our talent to go to a better team.... *sigh*

Sounds like the Raptors of previous years!!! But I think our situation is different!! We can win games :)

Anthem
07-21-2007, 11:50 AM
I'm in shock. Not that the extra 700k/year is going to kill us, but that these are the moves TPTB have been working on this summer.

We fell apart, had huge losing streaks, and our offseason acquisitions are Stanko, Rush, and Diener? What are we thinking?

EDIT: When you factor in that we lost Baston and DA, I think we actually got WORSE this offseason.

EDIT 2: Isn't that the kind of money Baston got? Wouldn't you rather have Baston than Diener?

Kegboy
07-21-2007, 12:00 PM
We've replaced McLeod, Armstrong, Greene, Marshall, and Baston with Diener, Rush, Graham, and possibly Owens. That leaves one slot open, for possibly a mystery PF.

avoidingtheclowns
07-21-2007, 12:05 PM
have we heard officially DA isn't coming back?

Unclebuck
07-21-2007, 12:06 PM
Buck, that article's been posted 3 times, including once by me. :chuckle:

Oops. I figured the 4th time people would finally understand that we just signed Steve Nash. No not really. Sorry, I've been a little behind lately

Hicks
07-21-2007, 12:12 PM
We've replaced McLeod, Armstrong, Greene, Marshall, and Baston with Diener, Rush, Graham, and possibly Owens. That leaves one slot open, for possibly a mystery PF.

If we wanted another PF we would have (presumably) kept Baston. I think we'll get another PG; Larry for whatever reason thinks we need 4 at all times.

BlueNGold
07-21-2007, 12:17 PM
I'm in shock. Not that the extra 700k/year is going to kill us, but that these are the moves TPTB have been working on this summer.

We fell apart, had huge losing streaks, and our offseason acquisitions are Stanko, Rush, and Diener? What are we thinking?

EDIT: When you factor in that we lost Baston and DA, I think we actually got WORSE this offseason.

EDIT 2: Isn't that the kind of money Baston got? Wouldn't you rather have Baston than Diener?

McLeod was a decent player. Also, DA at times was the only thing that was keeping the blood flowing. No doubt in my mind we are actually worse off at PG even with Diener...unless he is the next Kerr/Nash/Stockton.

We will get at least a little bump from Rush at SG, though. With Diener shooting the ball too, it should help our perimeter game some.

It's kind of funny how the Pacers have a big theme each year. This year it is shooting. Last year it was about drafting long athletic players. What's next year? It's all really so shallow IMO and indicates we need next year to be New GM year.

In any event, Diener came cheap. Considering Kapono and Luke Walton's deals, Diener was a steal. It appears Bird's credit line has been reduced. ;)

Unclebuck
07-21-2007, 12:21 PM
McLeod was a decent player. Also, DA at times was the only thing that was keeping the blood flowing. No doubt in my mind we are actually worse off at PG even with Diener...unless he is the next Kerr/Nash/Stockton.




Are you putting Kerr in the same class as Nash and Stockton.

BlueNGold
07-21-2007, 12:26 PM
Are you putting Kerr in the same class as Nash and Stockton.

No. Not even close. Hmmm. Maybe that was a typo...:blush:

QuickRelease
07-21-2007, 12:36 PM
He can't be any worse than Saras, and we got Travis a lot cheaper, I'm interested to see how he does. I just wish his defense was better though

Well, Harter's defensive scheme really serves to maximize team defense over individual defense. Mullin, Miller, Mark Jackson...I don't think you would label any of those guys stoppers. But they were an integral part of that team which was a good defensive unit. So I think that it's not necessarily something that will be too big an issue. Is he that bad?

aero
07-21-2007, 12:42 PM
Travis was a fan favorite down in Orlando...everyone i talk to say he's a pretty good shooter but was restricted to being 3rd string....We shall see what hes really like.

BigDawg44
07-21-2007, 12:56 PM
could we be the next Detroit Pistons and gather up everyone's cast offs and become a championship team?




a guy can only hope

QuickRelease
07-21-2007, 01:03 PM
If we wanted another PF we would have (presumably) kept Baston. I think we'll get another PG; Larry for whatever reason thinks we need 4 at all times.

Takes into account the negative-1 factor since Tinsley won't make it through the season.

(-1) + 4 = 3 :einstein:

BoomBaby33
07-21-2007, 01:30 PM
have we heard officially DA isn't coming back?

I haven't heard. The last we knew was he was contemplating it depending on what happens with JO with his interview with Rake.

And other than that, he has stated that he is returning next year, which makes me wonder why everybody seems to discount that he is coming back. He is still under contract.

eldubious
07-21-2007, 01:32 PM
Mystery PF? The word out of Seattle is shopping Collison, a typical Bird player, who the Pacers were interested in a couple of years ago.

pwee31
07-21-2007, 01:35 PM
Well his family lives in lala-land, or they're smoking some weird stuff.

I think he has more then 1 play to go to become a starter :D

I think they're referring to an injury. When you're a backup, you're one play away from being a starter, if the starter gets injured on a play

Shade
07-21-2007, 01:37 PM
We've replaced McLeod, Armstrong, Greene, Marshall, and Baston with Diener, Rush, Graham, and possibly Owens. That leaves one slot open, for possibly a mystery PF.

I agree, and the Mystery PF will probably get $2 mil/year for 2 years or so, putting us right at the luxury tax threshold.

C - Murphy/Foster/Harrison
PF - JO/Diogu/Mystery PF
SF - Granger/Dun/Williams
SG - Rush/Quis/Graham
PG - Tins/Diener/Owens

Barring any trades, that will probably be our team going into next season.

Shade
07-21-2007, 01:44 PM
If we wanted another PF we would have (presumably) kept Baston. I think we'll get another PG; Larry for whatever reason thinks we need 4 at all times.

Your mind is slipping in your old age. ;)

Hicks
07-21-2007, 01:49 PM
How so? It depends, if Armstrong is still under contract then yes we have 4: Tinsley/Diener/Armstrong/Owens. Fine. As for Baston, I'm correct. He's a PF. What part of that is a sign of me "slipping"?

Can anyone confirm/deny that Darrell is under contract?

Unclebuck
07-21-2007, 01:54 PM
I'm still expecting a major trade and perhaps a minor trade.

DisplacedKnick
07-21-2007, 02:02 PM
Mystery PF? The word out of Seattle is shopping Collison, a typical Bird player, who the Pacers were interested in a couple of years ago.

Wouldn't surprise me if they bought out KT - he really doesn't have a place with them though I have a feeling Riley would try to get him if that happens.

Jose Slaughter
07-21-2007, 02:04 PM
Well his family lives in lala-land, or they're smoking some weird stuff.

I think he has more then 1 play to go to become a starter :D


What it means is that on any "one play" Tinsley could have a season ending injury.


Can I just ask something, seriously? If the Pistons or Heat sign him does this board go "oh man, that's the piece, he's going to have a big impact"?

Personally I don't think so. I think Rush at least has the chance to turn things around for himself, but I don't see Diener as about to be a lot more than he's already been.


As for "getting a chance", it is true that he didn't get to play much. However I ran his per35 numbers overall, and then only for games where he got at least 10, 12, and 15 minutes (for last season only). Most of his PT came in games where he got at least 15 minutes and in fact using only those games gave him somewhat WORSE numbers.

In other words playing longer in a game didn't help him "get going" as is often suggested with some bench guys (ahem, Saras lovers I'm looking at you).

So what could you expect from Diener based on last season? 35 minutes of his 15+ minutes games gives you:

Pp35 - 10.7
FG% 41.4
FT% 76.9
3P% 35.1
Ap35 - 2.6
Rp35 - 1.8
STLp35 - 0.5
TOp35 - 0.6

Again, that him getting STARTER minutes, not off the bench. I guess I can live with that at less than $2m per, but obviously he's only going to be a mild impact off the bench at that rate.

Of course there is always MIP. My problem there is that he's a mature player that seems to have disciplined his way to this caliber of game. Doesn't seem like there is a lot more waiting to burst threw as soon as he figures it out.


I suppose UB is right, shouldn't be worse than Saras, especially considering the contract. Except assists where he has been well behind what Saras did, or AJ, Army and of course Tinsley. But then he doesn't turn the ball over at all. No reward and no risk.

Have you given any consideration for the change in coaching systems? Most times its not the talent level but finding the right system to play in. An example would have been Peja. The last couple seasons with the Kings his shooting percentages were off. His numbers were up while he was here. That alone is unusal, more often than not a players numbers will drop following a mid-season trade.

I'm not saying that Diener will thrive or fail but if he fits into O'Brian's system better than what Hill ran last year in Orlando, he should have a much improved season.

Mourning
07-21-2007, 02:16 PM
Sounds like the Raptors of previous years!!! But I think our situation is different!! We can win games :)

Yeah and get like bounced in the first round of the play-offs IF we are lucky enough to get there at all and then go home with the 16/17th pick in the draft. Love that outlook. Yahoo... :unimpress

Again I have no problem with Diener and Rush at all. I'm hoping for much more influential and franchise course altering changes here, that's all.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

diamonddave00
07-21-2007, 02:29 PM
Only part I find a little odd is Travis Diener will make as much as Danny Granger and more than Shawne Williams this year . So he must figure heavy in plans.

Hicks
07-21-2007, 02:48 PM
Yeah and get like bounced in the first round of the play-offs IF we are lucky enough to get there at all and then go home with the 16/17th pick in the draft. Love that outlook. Yahoo... :unimpress

If it's that or this 20-win season some people are prophecizing about, I'll take the 1st round and a 17th pick.

denyfizle
07-21-2007, 03:00 PM
I just don't get why we always hand out player option deals though. If this guy blows up, he will jump ship on us again, if not, we'll be stuck with him for another year. I can't see why we couldn't have signed him with a team option for the third year.

Hicks
07-21-2007, 03:05 PM
I just don't get why we always hand out player option deals though. If this guy blows up, he will jump ship on us again, if not, we'll be stuck with him for another year. I can't see why we couldn't have signed him with a team option for the third year.

Even if he opted out (well first of all if he blows up I'll just enjoy the ride), doesn't he become a restricted FA, and one that we could offer the most to if we want to keep him (which presumably we would)?

Kegboy
07-21-2007, 05:22 PM
I agree, and the Mystery PF will probably get $2 mil/year for 2 years or so, putting us right at the luxury tax threshold.

C - Murphy/Foster/Harrison
PF - JO/Diogu/Mystery PF
SF - Granger/Dun/Williams
SG - Rush/Quis/Graham
PG - Tins/Diener/Owens

Barring any trades, that will probably be our team going into next season.

Oh. Joy.

And Hicks, what if we say "Peck's Mystery PF". Is that better?

Robertmto
07-21-2007, 05:25 PM
So the offseason for the Ps was Rush, Diener, and Mystery PF??

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh that Blake signing would have looked good right now.

PBB
07-21-2007, 05:42 PM
This may be a plot to force us to appreciate Tinsley more!

Actually, he probably will fit into the system with his 3PFG range, but if defense starts with the point guard...

Kegboy
07-21-2007, 05:45 PM
So the offseason for the Ps was Rush, Diener, and Mystery PF??

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh that Blake signing would have looked good right now.

Now, now, MTO, TPTB still have two months to pull something out of their asses. :tsk:

JayRedd
07-21-2007, 09:27 PM
Saras was slow. This guy is cat quick

No...not really.

grace
07-21-2007, 10:04 PM
I'm still expecting a major trade and perhaps a minor trade.

As long as you don't hold your breath. I'm sure Larry wouldn't want your death on his hands.

CableKC
07-21-2007, 10:19 PM
Now, now, MTO, TPTB still have two months to pull something out of their asses. :tsk:
Yep....when it comes to TPTB...that's where most ideas come from :laugh: :hmm: :( :suicide4:

BlueNGold
07-21-2007, 10:20 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted:

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/diener_chat_060209.html

Tom White
07-21-2007, 11:38 PM
Now, now, MTO, TPTB still have two months to pull something out of their asses. :tsk:

Oooooooohhhhh!

Maybe we should take up a collection to buy them some Charmin.

denyfizle
07-22-2007, 04:44 AM
No...not really.

Well let's put it this way... If Saras scored 30+ points in a summer league game, a lot of people that post here- especially our Euro posters, would be proclaiming him the next Steve Nash or even better. But not me though... no not me. I would've just said he's the next Jason Kidd.:o

Mourning
07-22-2007, 08:39 AM
If it's that or this 20-win season some people are prophecizing about, I'll take the 1st round and a 17th pick.

Give me that 20-win season then... atleast you get something of a clear reward. Not a guarantee, but certainly a much better chance of getting a talent and actually at a position we need it most (the backcourt) without it immediately killing our salary level totally.

I could stand one or two awfull seasons with regards to winning as long as the strategic course is clear and is realistic and reachable. This constant reloading, restructuring, half-assed stuff we have been doing since Ron asked for a trade ... I have really had it with that.

I'm willing to suffer a little if there's a decent prospect of a reward. These past years we have only been suffering. The onlythings you might have considered rewards were Danny slipping to us and MAYBE Shawne aswell. And Danny wasn't part of somekind of strategy or masterplan... that was more like luck then anything else.

Sorry, used to be a longtime member of the sunshine brigade, but those days are long gone now :(.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

BlueNGold
07-22-2007, 08:40 AM
I think the key takeaway is that Diener will not suffer from Saras' inability to bring the ball up the court. I truly think that hurt Saras' confidence and along with the faster pace in general hurt his game as a whole.

The difference is that Diener is bound to be quicker...and is likely to be quick enough where the same issues will not arise. No one is assuming Nash here....just not Saras.

Y2J
07-22-2007, 09:02 AM
The Diener signing is ok. He hasn't had much time to prove himself but he has shown he can shoot the ball better than Steve Blake ever could dream of.

Kegboy
07-22-2007, 11:21 AM
Give me that 20-win season then... Sorry, used to be a longtime member of the sunshine brigade, but those days are long gone now :(.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

And here's your cookie, brother.

:cookie:

blanket
07-22-2007, 11:42 AM
orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-nbainsider2207jul22,0,3540402.column?coll=orl_spor ts_basketball_magic_util

OrlandoSentinel.com

INSIDE THE NBA

Playing time on Diener's mind

Tim Povtak

INSIDE THE NBA

July 22, 2007


Travis Diener just wanted a chance to play.

Diener, who hardly played in his two seasons with the Orlando Magic, liked the three-year, $4.9 million contract offer made by the Indiana Pacers earlier this month.

He loved what they told him next.

"They told me I'd get a chance to play," Diener said last week from his home in Wisconsin. "That's all I needed to hear. My main concern this summer, more than anything else, was finding a place where I could get a chance."

The Magic made Diener their second-round draft choice in 2005, after an impressive college career at Marquette, where he became one of the most prolific long-range shooters in school history.

Yet he spent much of his time on the sideline in Orlando, sitting behind point guards Jameer Nelson and Carlos Arroyo. In two seasons, he played in 49 games, averaging 10.9 minutes, hardly a chance to prove he was worthy.

He shot 43.9 percent from 3-point range as a Magic rookie, but after an impressive summer league, his playing time never materialized in his second season. He spent most of the second half of that second season on the inactive list.

"Obviously, I was frustrated by what happened. Anyone in my position would have been," he said. "If we had been winning, and I wasn't playing, I could have dealt with that. But we weren't even winning. That got to me."

Diener wasn't happy with his playing time, but he had nothing but good things to say about General Manager Otis Smith and the way he was treated by the organization. He also thinks the Magic will improve considerably with the signing of free agent Rashard Lewis and new Coach Stan Van Gundy.

"I liked Orlando. I'm not going to blast anyone there. That's not my style. It would have been nice to stick around, but this [Indiana] was the perfect chance for me," he said. "They say if you wait, the opportunity will come. Well, this is my opportunity."

Diener is expected to play consistently as the backup point guard behind often-injured Jamaal Tinsley. His arrival, though, could prompt the departure of Darrell Armstrong, another former Magic point guard.

Armstrong, 39, remains on the Pacers' roster, but his contract is not fully guaranteed for this season. And he said last week that while he still expects to play for the Pacers, he won't report to training camp without a guaranteed contract.

"I'll be somewhere this season. I'm not old. I've got young legs still," Armstrong said last week from his home in Atlanta. "I just don't know what they [Pacers] want to do. Right now, we sit back and wait."

Armstrong thinks the Pacers still are contemplating a trade of star center Jermaine O'Neal, which would touch off a complete rebuilding of the roster. He also is looking around the league, still thinking someone could use a veteran backup who still can change a game with his high-energy style.

Armstrong will be back in Orlando this week for another one of his charity basketball camps at First Presbyterian Church downtown. Next month, he'll return for his foundation's major fundraiser, an event he started when he played here but has continued ever since.

"I'm always coming back [to] Orlando," he said. "Too bad they don't need another point guard. But I'll be somewhere playing this season. Someone is going to want me."

Polish pride

Remember when the Magic first obtained Arroyo and his fans came to the game waving the flags from Puerto Rico?

You might see a scaled-down version of that scene if center Marcin Gortat can work his way into the playing rotation.

Gortat, the former second-round draft choice who spent the past two years in Europe, will become just the third player from Poland in the NBA's modern era to play in an NBA game.

Smith said he will sign Gortat to provide frontcourt depth this season instead of letting him play another year in Europe.

"If I make it to the NBA, I'll be like a hero back in Poland," Gortat said. "It will be exciting."

The only other NBA players from Poland were Maciej Lampe (2003-06), who spent time with Phoenix, New Orleans and Houston; and Cezary Trybanski (2002-04), a center who bounced from Memphis to Phoenix to New York before returning to Europe.

Gortat already has a small group of fans who gather regularly at Polonia Polish Restaurant in Seminole County. And they've talked about bringing the Polish flag to the games.

Eyes on AAU tourney

There is plenty of NBA flavor to the AAU Boys National Championships at Disney's Wide World of Sports this weekend and into the week.

Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Marquis Daniels all are sponsoring at least one team competing this year.

Former NBA players Michael Jordan, Doc Rivers, Ralph Sampson, Manute Bol and Dell Curry all have sons playing in the event.

And on top of that, several of the top-rated high school players in the nation will be participating, giving everyone an early glimpse at potential NBA players.

Around the Rim

Veteran television analyst Bill Walton is one guy who thinks the Magic made a wise choice in grabbing Stan Van Gundy as their next coach. "I love him. There is no self-promotion. He's no-nonsense but a great basketball mind," Walton said. "He's a working-class hero. I also was shocked that Seattle let go of Rashard Lewis so easily. With him next to Dwight Howard, the Magic should be a real factor in the East."

Funny how the International Drive developers are asking for a public referendum on the issue of funding for the new downtown sports and art venues, but they didn't want one before turning the Orange County Convention Center into a city of its own.

The NBA was experimenting with different composite basketballs at the Las Vegas Summer League Revue, but those balls were not met with a lot of enthusiasm. "I hated it," said Paul Millsap of the Jazz. "It just stuck to my hand." Teammate Dee Brown was a bit more diplomatic. "I like the [the traditional leather] ball a lot better, but a ball is a ball. I'll never complain. I'll play with a tennis ball if they want."

Magic guard Keyon Dooling will hold his first All-Star Basketball Camp for kids at the Lake Nona YMCA on Aug. 17 and 18 for both boys and girls ages 6-16. For more information, e-mail doolingsummercam p@hotmail.com.

Longtime Magic fan Beverly Davis of Casselberry has suggested a suspenders giveaway as a promotion next season, something fans could wear each night to show "support," for her favorite local team.

A Final Thought: Steve Francis is dreaming if he thinks returning to Houston will revitalize his career.

Tim Povtak can be reached at tpovtak@orlandosentinel.com


Copyright © 2007, Orlando Sentinel

Y2J
07-22-2007, 12:45 PM
Give me that 20-win season then... atleast you get something of a clear reward. Not a guarantee, but certainly a much better chance of getting a talent and actually at a position we need it most (the backcourt) without it immediately killing our salary level totally.

I could stand one or two awfull seasons with regards to winning as long as the strategic course is clear and is realistic and reachable. This constant reloading, restructuring, half-assed stuff we have been doing since Ron asked for a trade ... I have really had it with that.

I'm willing to suffer a little if there's a decent prospect of a reward. These past years we have only been suffering. The onlythings you might have considered rewards were Danny slipping to us and MAYBE Shawne aswell. And Danny wasn't part of somekind of strategy or masterplan... that was more like luck then anything else.

Sorry, used to be a longtime member of the sunshine brigade, but those days are long gone now :(.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

I'm with you 100%. Over 50% of top-5 picks go on to be All-Stars. I'll take a couple lousy seasons if we're rewarded with two young future All-Stars out of it and the foundation for a future championship contender.

Robertmto
07-22-2007, 06:06 PM
Now, now, MTO, TPTB still have two months to pull something out of their asses. :tsk:

Yea and i still have 3 years of eligibility left for college ball. :p


And here's your cookie, brother.

:cookie:

Just for the record I never got my cookie...

Kegboy
07-22-2007, 07:00 PM
Just for the record I never got my cookie...

You're not a darksider. You're definitely part of Washington's sunshine brigade.

Robertmto
07-22-2007, 07:04 PM
You're not a darksider. You're definitely part of Washington's sunshine brigade.

Thats true, but the Pacers are dooooooooooooomed.

Jose Slaughter
07-23-2007, 12:45 AM
You're not a darksider. You're definitely part of Washington's sunshine brigade.

Darksiders get cookies?

I'll take 2..................... boxes!

Dr. Goldfoot
07-23-2007, 12:47 AM
Over 50% of top-5 picks go on to be All-Stars. I'll take a couple lousy seasons if we're rewarded with two young future All-Stars out of it and the foundation for a future championship contender.

Technically, the ten year span of 1996 to 2005 produced 19 All-Stars out of 50 top five picks. That's 38%. At least 13 top five picks in that span would be considered busts or 26%.

Y2J
07-23-2007, 07:49 AM
Technically, the ten year span of 1996 to 2005 produced 19 All-Stars out of 50 top five picks. That's 38%. At least 13 top five picks in that span would be considered busts or 26%.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=31097



Alright, here's a quick breakdown of the top-5 picks since 1984, excluding 2006. I rated each player a 1-5 and then tallied up the totals. This is all very subjective obviously. Also, I'm counting players scores a their peak, prior to any injuries or whatever, so therefor Antonio McDyess would be a 4 whereas Grant Hill would be a 5. Also, for 2005 I'm basing off of most likely scenario, ie: Dwight a 5, Emeka and Ben each a 4 etc.


5 = Superstar
4 = All-Star
3 = Starter
2 = Backup
1 = Dud

There's 110 players....

2005
1. Andrew Bogut 3
2. Marvin Williams 3
3. Deron Williams 4
4. Chris Paul 5
5. Raymond Felton 3

2004
1. Dwight Howard 5
2. Emeka Okafor 4
3. Ben Gordon 4
4. Shaun Livingston 2
5. Devin Harris 3

2003
1 LeBron James 5
2 Darko Milicic 3
3 Carmelo Anthony 5
4 Chris Bosh 5
5 Dwyane Wade 5

2002
1. Yao Ming 5
2. Jay Williams 1
3. Mike Dunleavy, Jr. 2
4. Drew Gooden 2
5. Nikoloz Tskitishvili 1

2001
1. Kwame Brown 2
2. Tyson Chandler 3
3. Pau Gasol 4
4. Eddy Curry 3
5. Jason Richardson 4

2000
1. Kenyon Martin 3
2. Stromile Swift 2
3. Darius Miles 2
4. Marcus Fizer 1
5. Mike Miller 3

1999
1. Elton Brand 4
2. Steve Francis 4
3. Baron Davis 4
4. Lamar Odom 4
5. Jonathan Bender 1

1998
1. Michael Olowokandi 2
2. Mike Bibby 4
3. Raef LaFrentz 3
4. Antawn Jamison 4
5. Vince Carter 5

1997
1. Tim Duncan 5
2. Keith Van Horn 3
3. Chauncey Billups 4
4. Antonio Daniels 2
5. Tony Battie 2

1996
1. Allen Iverson 5
2. Marcus Camby 4
3. Shareef Abdur-Rahim 4
4. Stephon Marbury 4
5. Ray Allen 4

1995
1. Joe Smith 3
2. Antonio McDyess 4
3. Jerry Stackhouse 3
4. Rasheed Wallace 4
5. Kevin Garnett 5

1994
1. Glenn Robinson 4
2. Jason Kidd 5
3. Grant Hill 5
4. Donyell Marshall 3
5. Juwan Howard 3

1993
1. Chris Webber 5
2. Shawn Bradley 2
3. Anfernee Hardaway 5
4. Jamal Mashburn 4
5. Isaiah Rider 3

1992
1. Shaquille O'Neal 5
2. Alonzo Mourning 5
3. Christian Laettner 3
4. Jimmy Jackson 3
5. LaPhonso Ellis 3

1991
1. Larry Johnson 4
2. Kenny Anderson 3
3. Billy Owens 2
4. Dikembe Mutombo 5
5. Steve Smith 4

1990
1. Derrick Coleman 3
2. Gary Payton 5
3. Chris Jackson 3
4. Dennis Scott 3
5. Kendall Gill 3

1989
1. Pervis Ellison 3
2. Danny Ferry 2
3. Sean Elliott 4
4. Glen Rice 4
5. J. R. Reid 2

1988
1. Danny Manning 4
2. Rik Smits 3
3. Charles Smith 2
4. Chris Morris 2
5. Mitch Richmond 4

1987
1. David Robinson 5
2. Armon Gilliam 3
3. Dennis Hopson 2
4. Reggie Williams 2
5. Scottie Pippen 5

1986
1. Brad Daugherty 4
2. Len Bias 1
3. Chris Washburn 1
4. Chuck Person 3
5. Kenny Walker 2

1985
1. Patrick Ewing 5
2. Wayman Tisdale 3
3. Benoit Benjamin 3
4. Xavier McDaniel 4
5. Jon Koncak 3

1984
1. Hakeem Olajuwon 5
2. Sam Bowie 3
3. Michael Jordan 5
4. Sam Perkins 3
5. Charles Barkley 5


So our totals are....

25 Superstars
28 All-Stars
33 Starters
18 Backups
6 Duds (of which two careers ended due to injury in Jonathan Bender, Jay Williams; 2 ended due to drugs in Len Bias (I guess he could go along with injury as well) and Chris Washburn; and 2 due to completely sucking in Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Marcus Fizer)

And those percentages would be....

22.7% chance of landing a Superstar
25.5% chance of landing an All-Star
30% chance of landing a Starter
16.4% chance of landing a Backup
5.5% chance of wasting the pick on a Dud

So in total a 48.2% chance of landing an All-Star/Superstar. Not bad. That's over double the chances of landing either a career backup or dud.



And here we look at each pick individually.....

#5
Superstar - 5/22 (22.7%)
All-Star - 4/22 (18.2%)
Starter - 8/22 (36.4%)
Backup - 3/22 (13.6%)
Dud - 2/22 (9.1%)

#4
Superstar - 3/22 (13.6%)
All-Star - 7/22 (31.9%)
Starter - 6/22 (27.2%)
Backup - 5/22 (22.7%)
Dud - 1/22 (4.5%)

#3
Superstar - 4/22 (18.2%)
All-Star - 7/22 (31.9%)
Starter - 5/22 (22.7%)
Backup - 5/22 (22.7%)
Dud - 1/22 (4.5%)

#2
Superstar - 3/22 (13.6%)
All-Star - 5/22 (22.7%)
Starter - 9/22 (40.9%)
Backup - 3/22 (13.6%)
Dud - 2/22 (9.1%)

#1
Superstar - 10/22 (45.5%)
All-Star - 5/22 (22.7%)
Starter - 5/22 (22.7%)
Backup - 2/22 (9.1%)
Dud - 0/22 (0%)


The odds of landing an All-Star or Superstar with each pick...

#5. 40.9%
#4. 45.5%
#3. 50%
#2. 36.3%
#1. 68.1%

Bottomline: there are very few true stinkers in the top 5, and quite a few average players, but it's absolutely loaded with future All-Stars and Superstars. There's no easier way in the league to acquire such a player then by landing a top-5 pick, and aside from unlucky #2, the higher that top-5 pick lands, the greater chance you have of acquiring a said All-Star/Superstar. It's also worth noting that the best player on every championship team of the past 20 years has been a top-5 NBA draft pick.

Dr. Goldfoot
07-23-2007, 08:52 AM
The facts are, if you discount the last two drafts since those guys have only played one or less seasons, only 19 of the last 50 top 5 picks have been All-Stars at least once. Regardless of how you may have rated players....Jason Richardson, Lamar Odom, Mike Bibby and Marcus Camby have not ever been All-Stars. They are starters but not All-Stars, even if you think they're really good.


P.S. After looking over your list, you have players who actually were All-Stars listed as "starters" like Rik Smits and players largely considered busts like Darko as "starters".

Ransom
07-23-2007, 10:38 AM
Apparently, Bird and Walsh have been watching me play my PS2.

Naptown_Seth
07-23-2007, 01:35 PM
No...not really.
He meant a sickly cat with arthritis obviously.


If it's that or this 20-win season some people are prophecizing about
Hey, I'm thinking closer to 30, with a good effort by Rush moving that to 35. But then I'm a sunshiner all the way.



Darksiders get cookies?

I'll take 2..................... boxes!It's the only thing Shade eats which is how he stays so thin (running on sugar buzzes only all day long)...and why he's never hungry when he gets to the PD parties. :D

Maybe you need to start handing out leafy greens to darksiders too. You know, just to make sure they have strong bones and muscles that can endure a long, painful winter.

JayRedd
07-23-2007, 01:36 PM
Maybe you need to start handing out leafy greens to darksiders too. You know, just to make sure they have strong bones and muscles that can endure a long, painful winter.

Agreed....This third Death Star isn't gonna build itself.

Naptown_Seth
07-23-2007, 01:41 PM
I agree, and the Mystery PF will probably get $2 mil/year for 2 years or so, putting us right at the luxury tax threshold.

C - Murphy/Foster/Harrison
PF - JO/Diogu/Mystery PF
SF - Granger/Dun/Williams
SG - Rush/Quis/Graham
PG - Tins/Diener/Owens

Barring any trades, that will probably be our team going into next season.
I think Quis starts at SG despite JOB's 3pt view. Partially because then Rush can come off the bench as the 3pt ace for bench scoring. Pair him with Dun and you have 2 decent ball handlers which then let's Diener function mostly as a 3pt threat himself.

I just hope that Dun either finds his 3pt shot OR refuses to chuck it if he doesn't, no matter what JOB has to say about it.


An example would have been Peja. The last couple seasons with the Kings his shooting percentages were off. His numbers were up while he was here.Wait a second, CARLISLE'S system made Peja better?

Plus the bad news is that Peja's numbers weren't way out of bounds with normal variance paired with health changes.
He was .397 in Sacto from 3, went to .404 in Indy. Zero change.
His FT% was actually down a bit from his previous few years in Sacto.
All his numbers stayed roughly the same or fell a tiny bit.

The ONLY change was that his rebounds went up about 1 per game and his overall FG% jumped back up; and the rebounding could be due to increased missed FGs by the team (this is the team that was last in the NBA in shooting last year, haven't checked that season yet), as well as being one of the biggest players the Pacers could actually field on a regular basis at that point.

His FG% was helped by being asked to shoot more inside the arc to go with his 2P shot, partially due to the Pacer featuring few other offensive threats when JO was out. His 3PA/FGA ratio was it's lowest in 3 years while in Indy, while means his good 40% 3P rate wasn't holding down his overall FG% as much.

His Effective FG% (3's weighted for the extra point) was 56.6, 52.9 and then 48.7 in that final half year in Sacto, jumping "back up" to 53.7 in Indy...ie, same as he always shot when not injured as he apparently was to start that season.

His Points per Shot did go up from Sacto to Indy THAT season, but his Indy numbers matched his previous seasons Sacto rate almost perfectly (1.30 to 1.31). The season before that he actually had a 1.42 PPS in Sacto in fact.

Nothing Peja did in Indy was an eye-opening, holy cow he's never been that before moment. Numbers on guys can vary, but not nearly as much as people seem to think, at least without a MAJOR explanation (like injury or going to a system with a vastly differnt play rate...and even then you can instead measure output against number of possessions instead of minutes).