PDA

View Full Version : I think I've figured out LB's plan



pianoman
07-20-2007, 11:39 PM
I think we will make maybe 1 or 2 more minor moves. Someone mentioned earlier that it sounds like we are an ECF team making tweaks to the roster. That is LB's mindset. Think about it, if we get one more pg (Alston, Knight), we could be the Toronto Raptors of this season. A COY coach, a allstar or 2. and a 40+ win season. Besides, isn't Travis Dineir a cheap pg version of Jason Kapono?? Isn't Kareem Rush a cheap alternative to a guy like Vince Carter(I know extreme comparison but it was the best I could come up with.) I think everyone will be shocked to see the Pacers back in the playoffs. Dunleavy will come in with much more confidence, Granger will be a possible all star, tinsley will look good, and Murphy will still sit out a couple of games this season with a broken nose. Overall, be prepared for a much better season. Barkley better watch out cause that dark horse has come back to life:dance::dance:

Trader Joe
07-21-2007, 12:17 AM
Kareem Rush and VInce Carter being compared to one another? My God send me a bit of whatever you are smoking.

Jose Slaughter
07-21-2007, 12:40 AM
I think its the blackcherry kool-aid.

Its my favorite too!

Infinite MAN_force
07-21-2007, 12:52 AM
People will mock you but I dont think it is that far off really.

If we have rush/murphy/granger draining shots from outside Jo could really have a chance to escape the triple teams and kick some ***. This does seem to be Obriens plan of attack

If tinsley responds well to Obrien who knows what we might see out of him, remember how he played as a rookie?

last thing... can Harter get these guys to play solid defense??? if so, I think you could be looking at a pretty good team. Chemistry is key, if everyone plays together well and respond well to the new coach after some unstable seasons.... who knows what could happen.

look what happened to the celtics when obrien took over...

Im just saying, these are things worth pondering. Not all speculation has to be negative.

pwee31
07-21-2007, 01:11 AM
I think Bird is putting together a basketball boy band! After the Pacers land in the lottery and draft Chase Budinger, we'll be set

PG: Diener
SG: Dunleavy
SF: Budinger
PF: Murphy
C: Foster

Jim O'Brien will be out as coach and Bird will bring in Donny Osmond!

Ha, but in all seriousness I'm pretty optimistic too. With our new coaching staff, "minor" additions, and a pretty healthy lineup... we'll be better then a lot of posters think!

Infinite MAN_force
07-21-2007, 01:22 AM
Murphy does have that loveable "Ross from friends" look going for him

:troymurphy:

http://www.jewtastic.com/wp-content/uploads/davidschwimmer3.jpg

Cobol Sam
07-21-2007, 02:12 AM
I think we will make maybe 1 or 2 more minor moves. Someone mentioned earlier that it sounds like we are an ECF team making tweaks to the roster. That is LB's mindset. Think about it, if we get one more pg (Alston, Knight), we could be the Toronto Raptors of this season. A COY coach, a allstar or 2. and a 40+ win season. Besides, isn't Travis Dineir a cheap pg version of Jason Kapono?? Isn't Kareem Rush a cheap alternative to a guy like Vince Carter(I know extreme comparison but it was the best I could come up with.) I think everyone will be shocked to see the Pacers back in the playoffs. Dunleavy will come in with much more confidence, Granger will be a possible all star, tinsley will look good, and Murphy will still sit out a couple of games this season with a broken nose. Overall, be prepared for a much better season. Barkley better watch out cause that dark horse has come back to life:dance::dance:

Best post I've read this summer. :dance:

Hicks
07-21-2007, 03:21 AM
People will mock you but I dont think it is that far off really.

If we have rush/murphy/granger draining shots from outside Jo could really have a chance to escape the triple teams and kick some ***. This does seem to be Obriens plan of attack

If tinsley responds well to Obrien who knows what we might see out of him, remember how he played as a rookie?

last thing... can Harter get these guys to play solid defense??? if so, I think you could be looking at a pretty good team. Chemistry is key, if everyone plays together well and respond well to the new coach after some unstable seasons.... who knows what could happen.

look what happened to the celtics when obrien took over...

Im just saying, these are things worth pondering. Not all speculation has to be negative.

Agreed (seriously).

:ohyeah:

spazzxb
07-21-2007, 03:43 AM
can I have Purple saurus rex koolaide?

Rajah Brown
07-21-2007, 07:16 AM
Making the playoffs next year with essentially the existing roster
would be no surprise at all.

On the other hand, making the playoffs....whoopde do !!!

Speed
07-21-2007, 07:38 AM
I'll have a drink too, but I was think Crittenden and VC would be alot more realistic.

pianoman
07-21-2007, 09:01 AM
I couldnt think of anyone else to compare him to. It was late and m brain wasn't working.

Evan_The_Dude
07-21-2007, 09:31 AM
I couldnt think of anyone else to compare him to. It was late and m brain wasn't working.

I think Rush is probably a good Stephen Jackson replacement. A little better shooter, a little less defense, but in the same mold.

BlueNGold
07-21-2007, 09:37 AM
I think Rush is probably a good Stephen Jackson replacement. A little better shooter, a little less defense, but in the same mold.

I hope you're right. I would be shocked though.

I'm no Jack fanboy, but I think Jack is much better on D and he's arguably better on O. The most Rush has averaged is around 11ppg on a bad team. Jack is a 15-18ppg player and has been doing it for 5 years...and is only 2 years older than Rush.

I would like to see Rush breakout, but I think he's a drop off from Jack.

beast23
07-21-2007, 09:39 AM
I'm speechless.

And, I don't necessarily know if I mean that in a good way.

Haven't had Koolaid in 20 years. But promise that I'll by some this weekend, try it on, and see if I still like it.

After these last three years, that's the best I can do.

NuffSaid
07-21-2007, 11:42 AM
I think we will make maybe 1 or 2 more minor moves. Someone mentioned earlier that it sounds like we (Pacers) are an ECF team making tweaks to the roster. That is LB's mindset. Think about it, if we get one more pg (Alston, Knight), we could be the Toronto Raptors of this season. A COY coach, a allstar or 2. and a 40+ win season. Besides, isn't Travis Dineir a cheap pg version of Jason Kapono?? Isn't Kareem Rush a cheap alternative to a guy like Vince Carter (I know extreme comparison but it was the best I could come up with.) I think everyone will be shocked to see the Pacers back in the playoffs. Dunleavy will come in with much more confidence, Granger will be a possible all star, tinsley will look good, and Murphy will still sit out a couple of games this season with a broken nose. Overall, be prepared for a much better season. Barkley better watch out cause that dark horse has come back to life:dance::dance:


People will mock you but I don't think it is that far off really.

If we have rush/murphy/granger draining shots from outside Jo could really have a chance to escape the triple teams and kick some ***. This does seem to be Obriens plan of attack

If tinsley responds well to Obrien who knows what we might see out of him, remember how he played as a rookie?

last thing... can Harter get these guys to play solid defense??? if so, I think you could be looking at a pretty good team. Chemistry is key, if everyone plays together well and respond well to the new coach after some unstable seasons.... who knows what could happen.

look what happened to the celtics when obrien took over...

Im just saying, these are things worth pondering. Not all speculation has to be negative.

I agree 110% with the above. I've said it since the end of last season that all the Pacers needed to do was evaluate the team in all respects, i.e., coaching/strategy, disciplinary policies, player abilities (strengths/weaknesses), etc., make a few tweaks here and there and they'd be right back in the mix. There have been plenty of discussions on just how tight the money is with JO, Murphy, MDjr and Tinsley's contracts being so massive. It was going to be nearly impossible for this team to pull off some, if any, of the trades proposed either here or in the media. They were better off simply releasing all of their 1/2 yr (option) contract players and finding a few decent players on the cheap who addressed those areas the team were weakest. Although names like Rush and Diener don't jump out at you (their signings were definately a surprise to me!), I think they'll be good fits here for what JOB is trying to do.

Bottom line here is you get JO, Harrison and Quis healthy (provided his legal woes don't land him in jail; ditto for Tinsley, BTW), keep Tinsley focused and playing within the offense, Granger to think less and play on automatic along w/Williams and MDjr to improve their 3-ball game, and everyone else to just contribute and/or do what they were brought in to do and this team could really surprise some folks.


Murphy does have that loveable "Ross from friends" look going for him

:troymurphy:

http://www.jewtastic.com/wp-content/uploads/davidschwimmer3.jpg
And here I thought I was the only one who thought that! :laugh:

Evan_The_Dude
07-21-2007, 02:29 PM
I would like to see Rush breakout, but I think he's a drop off from Jack.

Rush is definitely a drop off from Jack. I'm just saying that Rush is a better shooter (not saying he's better overall offensively than Jack) and a weaker defender. Rush could potentially play the same role Jackson did when he was here, or the same role Jackson was SUPPOSED to play, but ended up playing a bigger role than; because of unforseen circumstances.

I'm thinking these small moves might end up being bigger than any big move we can make. Looking at our team right now, it almost makes a lot more sense to keep Jermaine in the fold than it would be to trade him.

Shade
07-21-2007, 02:37 PM
The "plan" is pretty simple: sign as many "shooters" as we can while staying under the luxury tax threshold. If a good trade comes along that keeps us under the luxury tax threshold, then do it.

My problem with TPTB, once again, goes back to acquiring Murphleavy's contracts. They severely hamstrung our ability to improve this roster in the near future, not to mention what will happen once Granger and Williams are up for extensions.

Hicks
07-21-2007, 02:59 PM
The "plan" is pretty simple: sign as many "shooters" as we can while staying under the luxury tax threshold. If a good trade comes along that keeps us under the luxury tax threshold, then do it.

My problem with TPTB, once again, goes back to acquiring Murphleavy's contracts. They severely hamstrung our ability to improve this roster in the near future, not to mention what will happen once Granger and Williams are up for extensions.

Not so much. Remember what we talked about last Saturday?

Murphy & Dunleavy: 4 seasons left on their deals

Jackson & Harrington: 3 seasons left on their deal

So in regards to the biggest money involved in that trade, we're talking a year's difference. Now I think Murphy and Dunleavy add up to more cash, but it's not an overwhelming difference I believe.

I'll add up what Hoopshype has for their numbers:

for 2008: $17,425,357 for Murphy and Dunleavy
for 2008: $15,055,625 for Jackson and Harrington

$2,369,723 more for us.

for 2009: $19,126,984 for Murphy and Dunleavy
for 2009: $16,366,250 for Jackson and Harrington

$2,760,734 more for us.

for 2010: $20,828,611 for Murphy and Dunleavy
for 2010: $17,676,875 for Jackson and Harrington

$3,151,736 more for us.

Then of course we pay our guys that extra year for $22,530,237.

So yes, for one year that's a lot of extra money. But people are *****ing about half of the MLE in the meantime.

:onozomg:

OnlyPacersLeft
07-21-2007, 03:10 PM
FINALLY! A LITTLE OPTIMISM! I LOVE IT! Yes the playoffs WILL happen for this team. I am not sold on last season simply because of an injured JO down the stretch a team that was pretty much beat with injuries and had given up on coach carlisle. Quis back in the fold would be awesome! I'm not ready to jump ship yet and as you see neither is larry Bird. Now if we struggle this year THEN we can still trade JO but hey you might as well give it a shot with the new coach ya know? and look KG is still on the roster in Minny...not much has happened now has it? Trading superstars in this league is not easy.

ABADays
07-21-2007, 04:34 PM
I think Rush is probably a good Stephen Jackson replacement. A little better shooter, a little less defense, but in the same mold.

ACK!!!!! :eek: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Mr.ThunderMakeR
07-21-2007, 05:40 PM
You peoples are all seriously delusional. This is worse than us all thinking that Ron was a changed man.

JayRedd
07-21-2007, 09:59 PM
can I have Purple saurus rex koolaide?

There should still be some Purple Sarunas Rex leftover in the pantry from last year. Just check the expiration date before drinking.

pwee31
07-21-2007, 10:01 PM
You peoples are all seriously delusional. This is worse than us all thinking that Ron was a changed man.

Maybe it's you that's delusional :-p

And speak for yourself when it comes to thinking Artest was changed man! I think the guy is talented, but all signs put to him being a nutcase

Big Smooth
07-21-2007, 10:43 PM
I don't see it but hey I'll be happy if these dreams come true. :D

ajbry
07-21-2007, 10:57 PM
Dunleavy with much more confidence? How the hell is that going to happen? Dude was hyped like crazy out of college due to his high draft selection and has been in the league long enough for all of us to know his production level. Confidence won't magically blossom over one single offseason. If he hasn't shown signs of being a good player, there is no legitimate basis to think otherwise until he proves it on the court consistently.

The Rush/Jack, Rush/Carter, and Diener/Kapono (I don't even understand that one, they're both good shooters but Kapono just stood around and fired up threes, Diener is an unproven ball-handler who won't just have to worry about one single purpose on the floor) comparisons are bizarre and even a little offensive to well-rounded NBA fans. It's fine if you want to be optimistic in a time where this franchise ain't exactly headed for the Finals, but I'd be absolutely shocked if any of your revelations came to fruition (and yes, that includes Granger becoming an All-Star).

denyfizle
07-21-2007, 11:37 PM
If we get rid of DunDun for a PG I am happy.

Evan_The_Dude
07-22-2007, 12:16 AM
Dunleavy with much more confidence? How the hell is that going to happen? Dude was hyped like crazy out of college due to his high draft selection and has been in the league long enough for all of us to know his production level. Confidence won't magically blossom over one single offseason. If he hasn't shown signs of being a good player, there is no legitimate basis to think otherwise until he proves it on the court consistently.

I disagree. Every coach he's played for has been a suckass coach up until this past season when he played for Nellie and Carlisle for only a half season each. It's not his fault that he was hyped like crazy. Everybody seemed to expect him to be a typical white boy shooter in the Larry Bird mold or something, and when they realized he isn't a great shooter, people wanted to hate on him. I was never a fan of his in Golden State, but when he came to Indiana I actually enjoyed watching him. Thing's just sort of flow when he's on the court because he does so many different things for the team. He's not great at anything, but he's good at a lot of things. I like that he is good at finishing fast breaks, he's good at making the right pass during a fast break, he's good at getting to the basket, he's a good midrange shooter, he's a good free-throw shooter, he's a good rebounder, defensively he's not as bad as people say he is, and I noticed he can get in the passing lanes from time to time.

He just needs to work on his shooting beyond the arc. He has a thing about his shot that kills me. You can tell when he's going to miss when he takes a jumper and sort of jumps backwards instead of straight up. That'll cause him to miss short of the rim and to the left or the right. Whenever he jumps straight up and shoots in rhythm, the ball goes in. It's sort of like what Stephen Jackson does. When he takes a set shot outside of the flow of the offense, it's usually an ugly miss. Catch him in rhythm, and he won't miss a damn thing.

Dunleavy might not ever average more than 14 points, but his skill set is perfect for a team that either has a structured system, or needs more than one ball-handler on the court at one time. He's more of an intangibles guy than a scorer. I think we'll really get to see him loosen up this season.

Shade
07-22-2007, 12:24 AM
Not so much. Remember what we talked about last Saturday?

Murphy & Dunleavy: 4 seasons left on their deals

Jackson & Harrington: 3 seasons left on their deal

So in regards to the biggest money involved in that trade, we're talking a year's difference. Now I think Murphy and Dunleavy add up to more cash, but it's not an overwhelming difference I believe.

I'll add up what Hoopshype has for their numbers:

for 2008: $17,425,357 for Murphy and Dunleavy
for 2008: $15,055,625 for Jackson and Harrington

$2,369,723 more for us.

for 2009: $19,126,984 for Murphy and Dunleavy
for 2009: $16,366,250 for Jackson and Harrington

$2,760,734 more for us.

for 2010: $20,828,611 for Murphy and Dunleavy
for 2010: $17,676,875 for Jackson and Harrington

$3,151,736 more for us.

Then of course we pay our guys that extra year for $22,530,237.

So yes, for one year that's a lot of extra money. But people are *****ing about half of the MLE in the meantime.

:onozomg:

Except, Al is easier to move than Murphleavy. I'd have dealt him for whatever (or held on to him if I decided to move JO) and deactivated Jack's *** if necessary. We'd still be in a better financial situation than acquiring Murphleavy, who nobody will ever take off of our hands (unless we "throw in" our best player), and will end up probably costing us a good player when it comes to extension time.

Shade
07-22-2007, 12:27 AM
FINALLY! A LITTLE OPTIMISM! I LOVE IT! Yes the playoffs WILL happen for this team. I am not sold on last season simply because of an injured JO down the stretch a team that was pretty much beat with injuries and had given up on coach carlisle. Quis back in the fold would be awesome! I'm not ready to jump ship yet and as you see neither is larry Bird. Now if we struggle this year THEN we can still trade JO but hey you might as well give it a shot with the new coach ya know? and look KG is still on the roster in Minny...not much has happened now has it? Trading superstars in this league is not easy.

So what if it does? We still aren't anywhere near being a title contender, or hell, even a conference title contender.

So, we'll continue to squeeze into the playoffs, lose in the first or second round, and get mid-range draft picks every year, and no FAs because of Murphleavy. Woo-hoo.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
07-22-2007, 12:31 AM
Dunleavy is a decent 6th-7th man and thats all he'll ever be. We are going nowhere with him as our starting 2. He is way too slow to be a starting SG. He could be a servicable as a starting 3, but the problem is we are log-jammed at the SF position and Id rather have Danny starting than Dun.

Murphy could be a decent 6th-7th man....in the D-League.

Hicks
07-22-2007, 01:07 AM
Except, Al is easier to move than Murphleavy. I'd have dealt him for whatever (or held on to him if I decided to move JO) and deactivated Jack's *** if necessary. We'd still be in a better financial situation than acquiring Murphleavy, who nobody will ever take off of our hands (unless we "throw in" our best player), and will end up probably costing us a good player when it comes to extension time.

Deactiving Jackson. Yeah, it's better money spent on a guy on your bench who doesn't see a minute of game time than it is Dunleavy. Right.

Hicks
07-22-2007, 01:09 AM
So what if it does? We still aren't anywhere near being a title contender, or hell, even a conference title contender.

So, we'll continue to squeeze into the playoffs, lose in the first or second round, and get mid-range draft picks every year, and no FAs because of Murphleavy. Woo-hoo.

People need to stop with this "it's only a good year if we're in the Finals and after that only if we win it all". That's ridiculous expectations to have. Root for the team to constantly improve, yes, but beyond that you're setting yourself up. It's just reality. Enjoy what there actually is to enjoy, and stop setting yourself up for disappointment.

If we're entertaining and we're winning more than we're losing, I'm basically happy as long as I feel we're improving. As has been argued on here many times, it's better to be .500 and build on it than it is to be in the basement and hope to get very lucky with the lottery.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
07-22-2007, 03:52 AM
If we're entertaining and we're winning more than we're losing, I'm basically happy as long as I feel we're improving. As has been argued on here many times, it's better to be .500 and build on it than it is to be in the basement and hope to get very lucky with the lottery.I agree with this. The problem is that once we make the playoffs, TPTB do very little to keep the team improving. This is the same old debate weve had here time and time again. TPTB have shown repeatedly that making the playoffs is all they want out of the team. J'OB even said in his post-hiring press conf that the goal for next season is to make the playoffs. As long as they keep that mindset, were never going to be contenders. I for one am sick of all the first round exits.

Now that we just barely missed the playoffs, next season will be declared a resounding success if we are eliminated in the first round. But we will just be right back where we were in the last couple of seasons: mired in mediocrity. Im sorry but that just isnt enough for me anymore.

Rajah Brown
07-22-2007, 07:20 AM
Evan-

Agree on Duns shot issues. I've always thought it'd do him a world of
good to get his scrawny butt in the weight room either on the leg press
or the squat rack and build some additional leg strength.

That would go a long way to make his perimeter accuracy more
consistent. Too often, he gets very little 'lift' at all on his shot.

BoomBaby33
07-22-2007, 09:02 AM
If we get rid of Tinsley for a PG I am happy.

Fixed!

Moses
07-22-2007, 11:05 AM
This thread must be this years Sunshine Brigade thread.

I'm sure the Pacers will make the playoffs, but I doubt we'll make it out of the first round.

Kegboy
07-22-2007, 11:47 AM
Dunleavy is a decent 6th-7th man and thats all he'll ever be. We are going nowhere with him as our starting 2. He is way too slow to be a starting SG. He could be a servicable as a starting 3, but the problem is we are log-jammed at the SF position and Id rather have Danny starting than Dun.

Murphy could be a decent 6th-7th man....in the D-League.

Didn't you hear, Conrad's already pimping Rush as our starting 2.