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Young
07-19-2007, 02:30 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/4982185.html


Steve Francis to return to Rockets
Three-time All-Star picks former team over Heat, Mavs and Clippers

By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Francis chose the Rockets over the Heat, Mavericks and Clippers, his agent Jeff Fried said on Thursday.

"I just hung up with Daryl (Morey, the Rockets general manager)," Fried said. "He is dealing with facilitating the contract.

"It's a combination of a variety of factors including the fit with the team, a comfortableness with the organization and a familiarity with the surroundings. He has a home in Houston. In so many ways, it has remained his home, despite some interim stops, Orlando and New York.

"For Steve, it's coming home."

Wow, this is a huge signing for the Rockets IMO. It could really make them dangerous with Rick Aldeman as their coach.

McGrady, Yao, Franics will be a tough trio to contain. Add in guys like Battier, Mike James, Bonzi Wells and they are going to be a force.

They just need one more big man, maybe two and they could do some damage and make a strong case for the Finals.

I think that Steve could return to his old form as a Rocket with Rick Aldeman as the coach. I think this is a great signing for them and a great choice by Steve.

Coop
07-19-2007, 02:36 PM
I don't think he'll ever be his old self again. He's lost all his explosiveness that he had last time he was with Houston. I could still see him averaging close to 15 a game though being the third option to McGrady and Yao.

Y2J
07-19-2007, 02:42 PM
His old self was a starter in the All-Star game. If he's just half of his old self this is a big signing for Houston. Is Scola coming over? If so, the Rockets had a fantastic offseason.

Rockets now have, individually, the most talented starting lineup in the league. Their bench isn't bad either, although they have too many guards and not enough big men. That James-for-Howard swap isn't looking too good for them from a needs standpoint.

Starters: Francis/McGrady/Battier/Scola/Yao
Bench: Alston, James, Head, Wells, Mutombo, Snyder, Hayes, Brooks

Head for Foster?

denyfizle
07-19-2007, 02:43 PM
I predicted that the Rockets were going to the WCF last season only to lose to either the Suns or Spurs. They just broke down mentally again, but this year with their cast I really think they are very capable of going to the Finals. This makes Brooks or Alston expendable though or maybe they're going to experiment a little bit.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 02:49 PM
Houston's really gonna be a force. Considering Dallas still hasn't addressed their breakdown, I would seriously consider putting Houston ahead of them.

The Clips f'd up not getting him.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 03:10 PM
[Luthor] Head for Foster?

I'd love to get either Luthor or Kirk Snyder.

They already have Chuck Hayes, who's similar to Jeff, but I could see them going for it.

Houston's new GM is a big, new-age statistician guy, so I bet he is really big on Foster, given his gaudy rebound per minute numbers.

Young
07-19-2007, 03:10 PM
Man I forgot about Luther Head.

Would I ever love to get that guy on our team. He can shoot the ball like no other.

The Rockets need another big though. They could get by but they are really heavy with backcourt players.

I think the Rockets need to take a look at Foster, Etan Thomas, Brendan Haywood, Joel Przybilla, Reggie Evans, Marcus Camby (doubtful), Kenny Thomas, Chris Mihm, or Anderson Varejao. They could offer Alston, Sura (expiering), Kirk Snyer (expiering), and maybe a filler like John Lucas. Surely they could get one of these guys for some combination of those guys.

Then maybe sign one more big for a little depth. Maybe Brian Skinner, Alexander Johnson, PJ Brown, or Scot Pollard.

Man, I think that the Rockets are real close to being able to make a strong title run they just need to make a deal for a solid big. Nothing special just someone solid.

Oneal07
07-19-2007, 03:11 PM
^^ I'm sure Dallas could use that same team as last year, this year and still run through the league!! As long as Avery is the coach that team will be a force!! I'm glad for Houston, I still think New Orleans is gonna be dangerous

BoomBaby31
07-19-2007, 03:27 PM
Old Self, do you guys how comfortable Francis is going to be in Houston. He was the man there and now he is going to be one of the "men". Mcgrady doesn't want all of the attention on him and Francis is going to be that piece, so Mcgrady can calm it down. Francis will shine there, IMO

Doug
07-19-2007, 03:31 PM
Head for Foster?

I've been hoping for that trade for a while.

I think it makes too much sense for TPTB not to have discussed it.

We'd probably have to take Sura as well to make the salarys match or get a 3rd team involved.

Fool
07-19-2007, 03:34 PM
Scola is already with the team. They brought him over the minute they made the trade.

CableKC
07-19-2007, 04:06 PM
Wow.....something has got to give in their Guard rotation.

They now have Francis, Mike James, Rafer Alston and Luther....you can technically even include Wells.

I'm guessing that Luther maybe expendable now.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 04:10 PM
They now have Francis, Mike James, Rafer Alston and Luther....you can technically even include Wells.

They also just drafted Aaron Brooks (who we could really use), and have both John Lucas III, and Kirk Snyder, who has talent and can play the 2.

Slick Pinkham
07-19-2007, 04:32 PM
Wow.....something has got to give in their Guard rotation.

They now have Francis, Mike James, Rafer Alston and Luther....you can technically even include Wells.

I'm guessing that Luther maybe expendable now.

A poster at Clutch City (Huge Rockets board) with over 1000 posts says that Houston Sports Radio 790 is reporting this afternoon that The Pacers and Rockets are discussing a trade for Rafer Alston.

Not sure at all if this is true or not, but some Rocket PG is sure to be moved.

Hicks
07-19-2007, 04:34 PM
God I hope not.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 04:34 PM
Oh, Alston, that'd make me feel much better. :suicide4:

SpADeD
07-19-2007, 04:35 PM
A poster at Clutch City (Huge Rockets board) with over 1000 posts says that Houston Sports Radio 790 is reporting this afternoon that The Pacers and Rockets are discussing a trade for Rafer Alston.

Not sure at all if this is true or not, but some Rocket PG is sure to be moved.

I damn sure hope it isn't for Alston. We don't need any more playground PG's.

avoidingtheclowns
07-19-2007, 04:41 PM
A poster at Clutch City (Huge Rockets board) with over 1000 posts says that Houston Sports Radio 790 is reporting this afternoon that The Pacers and Rockets are discussing a trade for Rafer Alston.

Not sure at all if this is true or not, but some Rocket PG is sure to be moved.

would trading for alston be a move to freak out over, mal?


luther head i'd love to pick up. rafer no thanks. that was such a disaster for the rockets they brought mike james BACK to make up for it. they've got a stockpile of guards, it would make sense for us to move foster to them.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 04:45 PM
I like Rafer.

Good contract. Very good 3-pt shooter. And he really doesn't bring that playground stuff in the NBA. He's actually pretty methodical and maybe too cautious at times. But he is heady and can also get to the hoop and finish. Good assist to turnover.

Y2J
07-19-2007, 04:59 PM
Depends on what we give up for him. I wouldn't give up much.

ABADays
07-19-2007, 05:07 PM
Why can't we bring back Jalen to be our point guard?

ChicagoJ
07-19-2007, 06:29 PM
I'd still settle for Omar Cook.

btowncolt
07-19-2007, 06:33 PM
I'd settle for a point guard that could point.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 06:44 PM
I'd still settle for Omar Cook.

Marcus Hatten is better.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 07:13 PM
I really, really like this signing for Houston. Francis didn't ever want to leave and still has his home there. Plus he and Yao were really developing a good relationship. Plus now they essentially got T-Mac for Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato. Which is incredible.

GrangerRanger
07-19-2007, 08:21 PM
The only quarell I got with Houston is gving up Juwon Howard ( a big) for a Mick James ( a small). Isn't there some rule against doing that? Unofficial GM rule?

Btw: If they want to win a title it's going to have to be in the next 2 years. T Mac will retire after his deal is over. That was annonced on a TnT game like a year ago ( maybe other places to, dunno.)

SoupIsGood
07-19-2007, 09:43 PM
I wouldn't mind Rafer. You know he would love OB.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 09:56 PM
I really, really like this signing for Houston. Francis didn't ever want to leave and still has his home there. Plus he and Yao were really developing a good relationship. Plus now they essentially got T-Mac for Cuttino Mobley and Kelvin Cato. Which is incredible.

Additionally, this will take some of the perimeter scoring load off of TMac. Obviously, it's not like Franchise is gonna be dropping 20+ a night at this stage of his career, but he's still a guy that can create a shot at anytime, can penetrate/break down a defense late in the clock, can shoot a little bit from deep, and can just really do a lot of things off the bounce.

Over the last year (maybe two, but I watched a lot more Rocket basketball last year), TMac has really become more of a playmaker than a scorer. Of course, he can still put it in the hoop anywhere, anytime....but his ideal and, I'd argue, more comfortable role is now a faciliatator that takes over when necessary.

The problem Houston had with Stevie/Yao was that Franchise was never adept at getting Yao the ball where and when he wanted it, and Yao was not confident/mature/skilled/comfortable/whatever enough to demand the ball, so they never really worked that well together. But TMac, especially now, is really in tune with Yao's game. If Yao can't get position or gets doubled, then TMac does his thing. But he's always looking for Yao first.

This style of offense will continue with Stevie there, but now, when the clock starts ticking and TMac has the ball in his hand, he has A LOT more options. He can put up the jumper, drive and shoot/pull-up, drive-and-kick to Battier/Head/etc. for a jumper (which were his three real options last year), or he can just swing it on the perimeter to Francis to let him do his thing, or dribble-drive and kick to Stevie for a jumper, or dribble-drive and kick to Francis who can then re-penetrate at a rotating, out-of-position defense that is sure to leave an open lane for him, a lane to kick to an open shooter, or an easy dump-off to Yao.

These guys were one of the best defensive teams in the League last year and will continue to be so, even under Adelman. But now, their offense could be really, really potent as well, and not just a two-man game. This could change everything (assuming health and decent quickness out of Francis, of course).

wintermute
07-19-2007, 11:05 PM
heat lost out on yet another fa?! i guess the weather isn't everything... nor is playing with guys like wade or shaq.

in other news, clippers are still looking for a pg...

QuickRelease
07-19-2007, 11:30 PM
I wouldn't mind Rafer. You know he would love OB.

Soup...that Dienermobile shot is....:brilliant BRILLIANT!!!!!

immortality
07-19-2007, 11:38 PM
Additionally, this will take some of the perimeter scoring load off of TMac. Obviously, it's not like Franchise is gonna be dropping 20+ a night at this stage of his career, but he's still a guy that can create a shot at anytime, can penetrate/break down a defense late in the clock, can shoot a little bit from deep, and can just really do a lot of things off the bounce.

Over the last year (maybe two, but I watched a lot more Rocket basketball last year), TMac has really become more of a playmaker than a scorer. Of course, he can still put it in the hoop anywhere, anytime....but his ideal and, I'd argue, more comfortable role is now a faciliatator that takes over when necessary.

The problem Houston had with Stevie/Yao was that Franchise was never adept at getting Yao the ball where and when he wanted it, and Yao was not confident/mature/skilled/comfortable/whatever enough to demand the ball, so they never really worked that well together. But TMac, especially now, is really in tune with Yao's game. If Yao can't get position or gets doubled, then TMac does his thing. But he's always looking for Yao first.

This style of offense will continue with Stevie there, but now, when the clock starts ticking and TMac has the ball in his hand, he has A LOT more options. He can put up the jumper, drive and shoot/pull-up, drive-and-kick to Battier/Head/etc. for a jumper (which were his three real options last year), or he can just swing it on the perimeter to Francis to let him do his thing, or dribble-drive and kick to Stevie for a jumper, or dribble-drive and kick to Francis who can then re-penetrate at a rotating, out-of-position defense that is sure to leave an open lane for him, a lane to kick to an open shooter, or an easy dump-off to Yao.

These guys were one of the best defensive teams in the League last year and will continue to be so, even under Adelman. But now, their offense could be really, really potent as well, and not just a two-man game. This could change everything (assuming health and decent quickness out of Francis, of course).

That was a really good post, hopefully Steve Francis isn't as much of a ball hog anymore and he is able to share the ball if he cannot make the shot.

Mourning
07-20-2007, 12:40 AM
Houston COULD be good this year... but, let's not forget that all three of their main players have had quite some injury problems recently, I'm not hopping on their "Ride to the Finals"-train just yet...

Second round, sure. Conference Finals. Absolutely possible. Finals... too much "IF's"" for me at this point.

Besides, Phoenix reeinforced itself aswell again. The Spurs kept everything together. The Jazz are bound to make more growth again this year and then there's the Mavericks who might be more motivated then ever before to prove they are "For Real"-again and last years outing was a fluke.

Most of those teams are also less injury sensitive and younger then the Rockets.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

TripleThreat
07-20-2007, 08:52 AM
That was a really good post, hopefully Steve Francis isn't as much of a ball hog anymore and he is able to share the ball if he cannot make the shot.
as a part time Rockets fan...I can tell you that I HATE this signing...but I hope that you guys are right...

I just don't see it. Francis has always been and will always be about Francis. He cares about his minutes, his points, his rebounds, not so much his assists, but at the end of the night, he's looking at the stat sheet to see what HE did, regardless if the team won or lost.

IMO, he will always be happy with a good stat line for him on a losing night, than a win and his non-involvement.

Here's to hope, though. The guy has a LOT of talent, but then again, so did Jeff George and Ryan Leaf. :D

Naptown_Seth
07-20-2007, 10:36 AM
I like Rafer.

Good contract. Very good 3-pt shooter. And he really doesn't bring that playground stuff in the NBA. He's actually pretty methodical and maybe too cautious at times. But he is heady and can also get to the hoop and finish. Good assist to turnover.
I agree that he doesn't go Skip to My Lou in the NBA, but I still think he's not as much as the Pacers need. L Head is the level of help they need IMO, a much stronger shooter.

Alston gives you a serious Tinsley concern because he shot the 2P last year at a 39% rate, basically the same as Tins. Ugh.


TThreat, I knew you'd hate this. Can't imagine it's going over too well down there.

Slick Pinkham
07-20-2007, 10:52 AM
most Houston fans wouldn't even object to Troy Murphy's contract.

Alston + Sura (retired, expiring contract) for Murphy actually works on the trade checker.

I don't really want Skip-to-My-Lou, to be honest. We have one of the 5 worst starting PGs in the league, and so we would be adding a guys who was another of the 5 worst starting PGs in the league last year to complement him.

But if you believe that Murphy is garbage (I don't) then this trade makes some sense.

TripleThreat
07-20-2007, 11:20 AM
I agree that he doesn't go Skip to My Lou in the NBA, but I still think he's not as much as the Pacers need. L Head is the level of help they need IMO, a much stronger shooter.

Alston gives you a serious Tinsley concern because he shot the 2P last year at a 39% rate, basically the same as Tins. Ugh.


TThreat, I knew you'd hate this. Can imagine it's going over too well down there.
apparently, it's not going over too bad. I'll listen to Charlie Pallilo on the way home tonight, and see what the buzz is like and let you know.

As for a trade with the P's...Alston = Tinsley, IMO. They are both Rucker Park standouts who made it to the show. If the P's are to trade for a backup PG, Luther would be my choice. His 3 point shooting improved TREMENDOUSLY over the course of last year, and he's on his way to being a starter before his career is over.

Kegboy
07-20-2007, 11:22 AM
Plus, if we traded for Luthor, we'd have to move the entire board to the Shout Box. :yes:

JayRedd
07-20-2007, 11:59 AM
I agree that he doesn't go Skip to My Lou in the NBA, but I still think he's not as much as the Pacers need.

Well, that's clear.

My only real point here is that he's an experienced and, I think, very level-playing PG who's run two NBA offenses effectively in his career and is set to make only $4.5 million, $4.9 million, $5.3 million over the next three seasons.

If we can grab him without giving up much, it would give us a nice little two-year security blanket so we don't have to worry about having a starting PG if we dump Tins for a rack of balls. And then we can take our time to find the right long-term starting point because we have a proven vet capable of at least running the offense for 30+ mpg witout things spiraling out of control.

Then when we bring in said long-term solution, Skip becomes an above average back-up, or we simply ship him and his appealing, soon-to-expire deal out of town for a shiny new asset.

diamonddave00
07-20-2007, 02:14 PM
I'll take Bob Sura's contract and Luther Head for Jeff Foster. Rafer Alston is just a copy of Jamaal Tinsley.

Luther Head , Marquis Daniels and Travis Diener can all play pg , to spell Tinsley or when he is injured. I have no desire to tie up salary room for 3 years of both Tinsley and Alston 10 mil a year combined salary.

Bob Sura won't play because of his back and has just this year left on his contract. Foster makes 6.175 mil next season Head only 1.962 a salary cap savings of almost 4 1/4 mil.

Just my thought on any Rocket/Pacer trade. Can't see Rockets taking Troy Murphy's contract.

CableKC
07-20-2007, 04:47 PM
I'll take Bob Sura's contract and Luther Head for Jeff Foster. Rafer Alston is just a copy of Jamaal Tinsley.

Luther Head , Marquis Daniels and Travis Diener can all play pg , to spell Tinsley or when he is injured. I have no desire to tie up salary room for 3 years of both Tinsley and Alston 10 mil a year combined salary.

Bob Sura won't play because of his back and has just this year left on his contract. Foster makes 6.175 mil next season Head only 1.962 a salary cap savings of almost 4 1/4 mil.

Just my thought on any Rocket/Pacer trade. Can't see Rockets taking Troy Murphy's contract.
If we don't move JONeal....I would easily giveup Foster to get Luther and Sura. We may suck on the offensive rebounding end....but we will likey see more of Ike and Murphy playing next to JONeal ( which is a good and bad thing ).

avoidingtheclowns
07-20-2007, 05:42 PM
If we don't move JONeal....I would easily giveup Foster to get Luther and Sura. We may suck on the offensive rebounding end....but we will likey see more of Ike and Murphy playing next to JONeal ( which is a good and bad thing ).

i think we're going to suck on offensive rebounding regardless of foster. see the "we're going to be terrible at offensive rebounding" thread for details

Roferr
07-20-2007, 06:00 PM
Poor Yao!

Francis was his worst nightmare. Yao ran himself ragged to get open down low just for Francis to ignore and sling a brick. Francis never did play in the flow of the game. He has too much "Kobe" in him to be a team player.

It should be Yao or TMac as the first option, now it will be TMac or Francis and Yao a distant third.

CableKC
07-20-2007, 06:07 PM
i think we're going to suck on offensive rebounding regardless of foster. see the "we're going to be terrible at offensive rebounding" thread for details
I know...I'm waiting for UB to step up and say something. Would giving up one of the few guys that actually pulls down offensive rebounds for another Guard that can shoot 3pt shots be worth it?

CableKC
07-20-2007, 06:14 PM
I've been thinking about it...but assuming that we make no major changes in the starting lineup ( specifically if Tinsley isn't traded ).....would we even have any room for Luthor or Alston in the lineup?

I'm guessing that Tinsley and Marquis should garner most of the PG and SG minutes....with Dunleavy subbing in as the 6th man ( assuming that he will be sharing the floor with either Granger, Shawne, Marquis or Tinsley )...that should leave some backup 3rd Guard minutes ( between 10-15 mpg each ) for Deiner and Kareem.

We already would have Tinsley, Marquis, Deiner and Kareem in the existing Guard rotation....that doesn't even factor in Dunleavy playing some Guard minutes as a 6th man. Where on earth would we get minutes for any other Guard that we acquire?

ajbry
07-20-2007, 06:20 PM
I've been saying this for a couple years now, but I'd straight up love if we acquired Skip. Dude can play decent defense, loves to shoot threes, and amongst his flaws is still a relatively solid starter.

Although the resident PD wish has already come true this year and we had to waste it on Travis Diener. Damn.

Trader Joe
07-20-2007, 06:32 PM
Poor Yao!

Francis was his worst nightmare. Yao ran himself ragged to get open down low just for Francis to ignore and sling a brick. Francis never did play in the flow of the game. He has too much "Kobe" in him to be a team player.

It should be Yao or TMac as the first option, now it will be TMac or Francis and Yao a distant third.

I don't see your reasoning behind this. If Francis comes in and is a ballhog not getting the ball to Yao then he will be benched. I see this as a relatively low risk, high reward move for the Rockets. Its only a one year contract.

TripleThreat
07-20-2007, 10:47 PM
Poor Yao!

Francis was his worst nightmare. Yao ran himself ragged to get open down low just for Francis to ignore and sling a brick. Francis never did play in the flow of the game. He has too much "Kobe" in him to be a team player.

It should be Yao or TMac as the first option, now it will be TMac or Francis and Yao a distant third.
...Francis rarely "slings bricks". His shot attempts per game are very low, actually. (please don't ask me for real stats...:D)

His problem is that he likes to dribble around and IF he passes the ball, it's got to be some crazy highlight reel stuff. IF he shoots the ball, it's got to be something acrobatic that gets him on SC IF he makes it.

With all those IF's...he normally just dribbles the ball around and off his foot out of bounds...most of the time RIGHT when the team needs him to be efficient.

Watching Francis play for a team you actually like is like watching a video of your own teeth getting pulled...you keep hoping like hell that something good is going to happen, but you know that it's probably going to hurt.

TripleThreat
07-20-2007, 10:49 PM
apparently, it's not going over too bad. I'll listen to Charlie Pallilo on the way home tonight, and see what the buzz is like and let you know.

As for a trade with the P's...Alston = Tinsley, IMO. They are both Rucker Park standouts who made it to the show. If the P's are to trade for a backup PG, Luther would be my choice. His 3 point shooting improved TREMENDOUSLY over the course of last year, and he's on his way to being a starter before his career is over.
CP didn't cover it...neither did the guys on 610. I switched to ESPN radio, and they were doing national coverage...

Looking at the boards on Clutchfans.com, though...they are pretty well pumped about it already. Doesn't seem to be a lot of people against it. I sure in the hell hope that this works out better than I think it's going to.

TripleThreat
07-20-2007, 10:59 PM
Here's the press conference held today at 3:33 (Francis wanted that time).

http://www.click2houston.com/video/13728148/index.html

I like that he touched on the very thing that I have always hated about his game...a reporter asked him "What's different about you today?"


Not really looking to do the flashy stuff like I used to. That right there was just to get on SportsCenter. Now I want to try to get on SportsCenter, you know, winning games

Roferr
07-21-2007, 08:36 AM
...Francis rarely "slings bricks". His shot attempts per game are very low, actually. (please don't ask me for real stats...:D)

His problem is that he likes to dribble around and IF he passes the ball, it's got to be some crazy highlight reel stuff. IF he shoots the ball, it's got to be something acrobatic that gets him on SC IF he makes it.

With all those IF's...he normally just dribbles the ball around and off his foot out of bounds...most of the time RIGHT when the team needs him to be efficient.

Watching Francis play for a team you actually like is like watching a video of your own teeth getting pulled...you keep hoping like hell that something good is going to happen, but you know that it's probably going to hurt.

It just seemed to me that the Rockets games I watched for the 3 seasons that Yao and Francis played together, that Yao would work his a.. off and would seldom be rewarded by Francis.

Incidently, in those 3 years, Francis averaged 16 shots a game and connected at only 42%. Not very good stats when you have a big man that can shoot at over 55%.

sweabs
07-21-2007, 11:27 AM
I've been saying this for a couple years now, but I'd straight up love if we acquired Skip. Dude can play decent defense, loves to shoot threes, and amongst his flaws is still a relatively solid starter.

Although the resident PD wish has already come true this year and we had to waste it on Travis Diener. Damn.

I often experience difficulty watching Tinsley. But I can tell you this much - I find it 100x worse to try and watch Rafer Alston. He is one of the most frustrating point guards to watch.

Similar to Tinsley, he has that tendency to want the "assist" - overlooking the importance of making the pass that leads to the assist. I can't tell you how often I see Rafer dribbling out the shot clock waiting, waiting, and waiting for the perfect assist instead of moving the ball around the floor.

Decent defense? It's definitely not something that stands out to me when I watch his game.

Loves to shoot threes? Yep - you're right. He loves to shoot them. And to me, this is the part of his game that irks me the most. After he had that nice playoff run with the Heat as a 6th man, he earned a nice little contract from the Raptors. And it undoubtedly went to his head. Since then, I have seen him take so many 3 pointers that have no place within the flow of the offense that it's silly. In his head, he's a much better 3-point shooter than what he actually is.

This brings me to his overall attitude. For a period with the Raptors, he had some of the players quite upset with his stupid decision making at the point. Rafer could sense some of the tension, and started making stupid remarks about wanting to retire, and not feeling "wanted" or "appreciated".

I understand if you like the guy because he's "streetball", and has "cred" (therefore making him the opposite of what Indiana basketball fans appreciate in your mind) - but at this point I'm actually more comfortable with the Diener signing. I know he didn't come from the "streets" or anything...but he comes at a much cheaper price, will bring many attributes that actually differ from Tinsley's game, and is still very young.