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purdue101
07-19-2007, 01:06 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070719/SPORTS04/707190528

Pacersin2033
07-19-2007, 01:07 PM
Man I know we called for sweeping changes, but come on Larry you need to slow down with this hyper intensive offseason. I mean 3 new players, I mean how are we going to recognize our team.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:08 PM
:lol: Cue LG33.






PS. I can't believe this guy is going to be our backup PG. :lmao: Its gotten so bad that we just signed a guy who averaged 4 ppg and 1 apg in 26 games to be our backup PG. God bless Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh.

Shade
07-19-2007, 01:10 PM
Well, it's now pretty obvious that UB and LG33 are on the Pacers' payroll. :uhoh:

Seriously, though, this is very disappointing. We're making very minor changes to a lottery team.

blanket
07-19-2007, 01:10 PM
Wow, 2 summers in a row a PD request gets honored. First UB gets Daniels and now LG gets Diener. Further proof that TPTB read PD?!?

Everyone place your orders now!



I was interested in Diener as a 2nd round pick a few drafts ago, but as our first Pg off the bench?! I have to think that Pargo or McLeod would've been better. At least he can shoot the 3.

Speed
07-19-2007, 01:11 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OMG it isn't a joke? Hasn't he been called the most physically weak player in the league???

Someone on this board even has a tagline making fun of him from like Marc Stein at ESPN.

The dudes who did the games for the internet feed for the summer league games, who work for Orlando, would just bust all over him.

Wow. Sorry to maybe overeact, but wow.

rexnom
07-19-2007, 01:11 PM
Isn't LG out for a while...somewhere in the world he's rejoicing.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:12 PM
Well, it's now pretty obvious that UB and LG33 are on the Pacers' payroll. :uhoh:

Seriously, though, this is very disappointing. We're making very minor changes to a lottery team.

Its odd. I feel like we were in at least the ECFs with the type of offseason we are having. We are making tweeks that a contender would make.

CableKC
07-19-2007, 01:12 PM
Didn't someone here want to sign Deiner?

Is he more of Pass-first PG or shoot-first PG?

His very limited stats seem to suggest that he does nothing more then take 3pt shots. Can he distribute the ball at least?

EDIT - I looked at his stats....it looks like he's a shooter....but given that he has averaged 11mpg with 3FGA per game ( 2.2 of which were 3ptA )...I'm not sure what to make of his game.

eldubious
07-19-2007, 01:13 PM
I would be more excited if IU signed him, not convinced he has the size to be a solid NBA PG.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:13 PM
Isn't LG out for a while...somewhere in the world he's rejoicing.

Yeah, he said he'd be gone for 2 weeks. :chuckle:

Vince Neil
07-19-2007, 01:13 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OMG it isn't a joke? Hasn't he been called the most physically weak player in the league???

Someone on this board even has a tagline making fun of him from like Marc Stein at ESPN.

The dudes who did the games for the internet feed for the summer league games, who work for Orlando, would just bust all over him.

Wow. Sorry to maybe overeact, but wow.

I believe it was the Bill Simmons saying he would challenge Deiner to a fight and could actually take him

Oh well.:rolleyes:

Shade
07-19-2007, 01:13 PM
Wow, 2 summers in a row a PD request gets honored. First UB gets Daniels and now LG gets Deiner. Further proof that TPTB read PD?!?

Everyone place your orders now!

If they'd have listened to me, we'd have Andre Miller right now. :disappoin

pwee31
07-19-2007, 01:14 PM
WOOHOO!!!

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070719/SPORTS04/707190528



The Indiana Pacers have found their backup point guard.


The Pacers have agreed to a three-year deal with a player option on the third year with Travis Diener, Diener's agent, Doug Neustadt, said today.
Neustadt said the deal will be finalized early next week.
Diener, who played at Marquette, averaged 3.8 points and 1.3 assists in 26 games with the Orlando Magic last season.
Diener, who is entering his third season, will backup starter Jamaal Tinsley next season.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:16 PM
three-year deal

I'm speechless.
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Speed
07-19-2007, 01:16 PM
If they'd have listened to me, we'd have Andre Miller right now. :disappoin


Thats a move I would love!!! This is signing a 4th string PG or an NBDL player to be your b/u, pg for 3 years. Good thing is the Jamaal will look like the best defensive true PG the Pacers have. Let me give Travis his nickname 3 mins into his reign as a Pacer, The Matador. Ole!

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:17 PM
Didn't someone here want to sign Deiner?

Is he more of Pass-first PG or shoot-first PG?

His very limited stats seem to suggest that he does nothing more then take 3pt shots. Can he distribute the ball at least?

Hes more of a not very good at anything, break the glass only in case of an extreme emergency PG.

Oh BTW Pacer fans you're promised new shooters TRAVIS DIENER AND KAREEM RUSH!!! Rejoice that we are blessed with such competent leaders.

Dr. Goldfoot
07-19-2007, 01:18 PM
Link (http://www.hoopshype.com/players/travis_diener.htm)

Not a physically gifted player... Very small and weak... Not athletic.

According to hoopshype.


I see him as the third stringer behind whoever else can play point that wears a Pacer uniform this season.

Vince Neil
07-19-2007, 01:18 PM
How do you pronounce his last name?

Diner?

or

Deener?

Dr. Goldfoot
07-19-2007, 01:20 PM
I'm speechless.
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yeah, that's quite ridiculous.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:20 PM
6'1", 175lbs.

Three years.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:20 PM
6'1", 175lbs.

Three years.

4 ppg 1 apg last season.

Your Indiana Pacers big offseason acquistion.

Fixed.
:lmao:

:suicide:

Shade
07-19-2007, 01:21 PM
C - Murphy/Foster/Harrison
PF - JO/Diogu/Mystery PF
SF - Granger/Dun/Williams
SG - Rush/Quis/Graham
PG - Tins/Diener/Owens

I'm sorry folks, but that ain't gonna ****ing cut it. If this is the team we're going to roll into the season with, I revise my prediction of 35-36 wins to 29-32 wins. That team just blows.

Shade
07-19-2007, 01:22 PM
How do you pronounce his last name?

Diner?

or

Deener?

Deener, I think.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:22 PM
C - Murphy/Foster/Harrison
PF - JO/Diogu/Mystery PF
SF - Granger/Dun/Williams
SG - Rush/Quis/Graham
PG - Tins/Diener/Owens

I'm sorry folks, but that ain't gonna ****ing cut it. If this is the team we're going to roll into the season with, I revise my prediction of 35-36 wins to 29-32 wins. That team just blows.

God I'd hope Quis would at least start at the two. For the 30 or so games he is healthy that is. We have to be the most flawed team in the NBA. Its not even a contest.

birdman
07-19-2007, 01:23 PM
How do you pronounce his last name?

Diner?

or

Deener?

Dee-ner

Vince Neil
07-19-2007, 01:23 PM
Here is some interesting info about him, I guess.


Diener's family has a storied basketball history, with many of his relatives coaching or playing at prominent universities. Consider:

His sister Brittney plays basketball for Lewis University.
His sister Rachel plays basketball for Saint Louis University.
His cousin Drake Diener played basketball for DePaul University and currently plays professionally for Castelletto Ticino in Italy.
His cousin Drew played basketball for Saint Louis University and is currently the director of basketball operations at the University of Virginia.
His cousin Derek played basketball and handball at West Point.
His high school basketball coach was his uncle Dick Diener.
Another uncle, Tom, is the coach at Milwaukee Vincent High School, where he has won five state titles, the most of any coach in Wisconsin high school basketball history.

Shade
07-19-2007, 01:24 PM
I'm speechless.
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Why? We do this **** ALL THE TIME.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:24 PM
This is what I just sent Sports Guy:


Okay, your Basketball Jesus just signed Travis Diener to a 3-year contract. I know you still love Bird, so can you take him back. Please? Even people in French Lick are starting to bad-mouth him.

Iceman1
07-19-2007, 01:25 PM
Deener, I think.

You are correct...

Shade
07-19-2007, 01:25 PM
Here is some interesting info about him, I guess.

And I haven't heard anything exceptional about ANY of them.

Doesn't bode well for Travis, does it?

Hell, I'd MUCH rather have Travis BEST right now.

Dr. Goldfoot
07-19-2007, 01:27 PM
C - Murphy/Foster/Harrison
PF - JO/Diogu/Mystery PF
SF - Granger/Dun/Williams
SG - Rush/Quis/Graham
PG - Tins/Diener/Owens

I'm sorry folks, but that ain't gonna ****ing cut it. If this is the team we're going to roll into the season with, I revise my prediction of 35-36 wins to 29-32 wins. That team just blows.

Honestly these guys will be the ones on the court....

1.Jamaal Tinsley PG
2.Marquis Daniels PG/SG/SF
3.Kareem Rush SG
4.Danny Granger SG/SF
5.MDJ SG/SF
6.Jermaine O'Neal PF/C
7.Jeff Foster PF/C
8.Troy Murphy PF/C

Shawne Williams (will see some time at both F positions) and Ike Diogu (will see some time at PF) will be 9 & 10. It's not that bad.

pwee31
07-19-2007, 01:27 PM
Deener, I think.

You are correct!


I like Travis Diener! Yeah he's undersized, but he competes! And he'll surprise just like Rush will. Plus he can shoot the 3, in J'Ob's system. He'll grow on you guys.

Diener, Diener :happydanc

Shade
07-19-2007, 01:27 PM
God I'd hope Quis would at least start at the two. For the 30 or so games he is healthy that is. We have to be the most flawed team in the NBA. Its not even a contest.

Hell, Dun may start the 2 for all we know. In fact, there really isn't any place for Dun on this team anywhere if we're intending to give Rush and Shawne some serious PT.

Seriously, does TPTB know what the **** they're doing?!

SoupIsGood
07-19-2007, 01:28 PM
You have GOT to be kidding me!

I actually kinda like TD, but the fact that this happened after LG33's obsession w/ him is too much for me. :lol:


But I don't think he THAT horrible, guys... :shrug:

Gyron
07-19-2007, 01:29 PM
Here is some interesting info about him, I guess.

So none of them could play in the pro leagues huh? not an NBA/WNBA player int he bunch.......:laugh:

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:29 PM
Why? We do this **** ALL THE TIME.

Whenever I think Bird can't possibly be more stupid, he does something like this and blows me away.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:29 PM
:thisisnotfun:

:suicide2:

pwee31
07-19-2007, 01:30 PM
His high school basketball coach was his uncle Dick Diener.



hahahahaha

Unclebuck
07-19-2007, 01:31 PM
I'm always amused how so many of you are so quick to ridicule the Pacers for signing this guy (almost reminds me of when the Pacers signed Anthony Johnson several years ago - most of you thought he was horrible)

I know nothing about Travis Diener , for all I know he'll beat out Tinsley or he might get cut the first day of training camp - I just don't know.

However, I remember last year a few experts I respect were pretty high on this guy. He had for awhile beaten out Arrojo for the backup, but then Ithink he got injured and never played much.

So I really have no idea if this guy is any good or not, but I'm willing to wait and see before I ridicule the signing

Unclebuck
07-19-2007, 01:34 PM
OK, until right now and I looked up his name on Hoopshype I had no idea if he was black or white. I think the pacers are trying to attract the female fans - I could see where they will think he is cute.

http://hoopshype.com/players/travis_diener.htm

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:35 PM
OK, until right now and I looked up his name on Hoopshype I had no idea if he was black or white. I think the pacers are trying to attract the female fans - I could see where they will think he is cute.

http://hoopshype.com/players/travis_diener.htm

Great we are making personnel decision based on whether or not the women attending games will think the players are cute.

Either that or we are trying to create the most fantastic Got Milk roster of all time.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:35 PM
UB, he's a point guard and he can't defend my shoe. That's all you'll need to know about him.

SpADeD
07-19-2007, 01:36 PM
He'll be the best shooter on the team, I can tell you that much. I remember watching a few Magic games when he was given time at the backup PG, he did good with the minuted he was given, ran the offense and just flat out didn't miss his shots.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:38 PM
He'll be the best shooter on the team, I can tell you that much. I remember watching a few Magic games when he was given time at the backup PG, he did good with the minuted he was given, ran the offense and just flat out didn't miss his shots.

That is just plain depressing.:cry:

CableKC
07-19-2007, 01:39 PM
I really wonder if Deiner will be used in the SG role ( much like how we initially used Sarunas ) where he will primarily play next to ball-handlers like Tinsley, Marquis or Dunleavy where they pretty much run the point. I'm guessing that Deiner will be standing in the corner...waiting for the ball to get to him and simply shooting the ball.

SpADeD
07-19-2007, 01:39 PM
That is just plain depressing.:cry:

I don't know why that is, did you not watch last season at all? Who the hell could hit a 3-pointer for their life last season? We had no consisent shooters at all around JO.

Dr. Goldfoot
07-19-2007, 01:40 PM
UB......I understand your point and I can sometimes be too quick to judge as well.

The fact is we are all absolute basketball freaks who research, study etc.. all things basketball. This guy has been in the league for two years and in our conference to boot. We don't know anything about him because he's a scrub. There is no reason to think Larry Bird has unearthed a hidden gem. At least with the Rush signing, we can see evidence of a player in the wrong circumstances. I see nothing here.

bnd45
07-19-2007, 01:41 PM
I wish the Pacers would announce dollar amounts on their deals. If this is the min. x 3 then it's not a bad move because Daniels should be playing some point anyway this year making Diener the 3rd PG. If the dollar amount is over 3 million than Diener moves into Scalabrinne territory (too overpaid to be token white guy who hustles and is the fan's favorite.)

RWB
07-19-2007, 01:42 PM
Here is some interesting info about him, I guess.


Once again it appears Bird is wanting to bring in people who grew up around baskeball and love the game like he did and very little athletic ability.

pwee31
07-19-2007, 01:42 PM
The lack of pigment continues. haha

Dr. Goldfoot
07-19-2007, 01:42 PM
(too overpaid to be token white guy who hustles and is the fan's favorite.)


We have that category covered by now don't we?

Aw Heck
07-19-2007, 01:44 PM
UB, he's a point guard and he can't defend my shoe. That's all you'll need to know about him.
I haven't seen him play much, but here's what I've gathered so far from everyone else:

-good shooter
-runs offense well
-terrible defender

Sounds like we got Sarunas Jasikivecius again. And a smaller version of him, at that. Oh boy.

birdman
07-19-2007, 01:45 PM
Travis Diener? We might as well have signed Errek Suhr.

RWB
07-19-2007, 01:46 PM
I haven't seen him play much, but here's what I've gathered so far from everyone else:

-good shooter
-runs offense well
-terrible defender

Sounds like we got Sarunas Jaskivecius again. And a smaller version of him, at that. Oh boy.

Left out one important aspect....Will keep mouth shut. :devil:

SpADeD
07-19-2007, 01:46 PM
I haven't seen him play much, but here's what I've gathered so far from everyone else:

-good shooter
-runs offense well
-terrible defender

Sounds like we got Sarunas Jaskivecius again. And a smaller version of him, at that.

Except Travis can actually dribble the ball past half court without any trouble and is a much better shooter than Sarunas was, considering he would go 5/6 one game than 0/7 the next.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:46 PM
I haven't seen him play much, but here's what I've gathered so far from everyone else:

-good shooter
-runs offense well
-terrible defender

Sounds like we got Sarunas Jaskivecius again. And a smaller version of him, at that. Oh boy.

Essentially. This guy couldn't defend me in a game of one on one. I feel pretty confident about that.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:48 PM
That is just plain depressing.:cry:

Oh, he's easily the best shooter on the team, he'd be the best shooter on a lot of teams. Problem is he's too small and weak to give you anything else out there.

Realistically, this is probably the best place for him. He'll fit into Jimmy's offense and Harter's defense will cover for him as best it can. But, again, unless a trade is coming, this means Quis is our primary backup at point. And with two huge injury risks in front of him, you'd like somebody who has shown he can do something, anything besides shoot.

ajbry
07-19-2007, 01:49 PM
Either that or we are trying to create the most fantastic Got Milk roster of all time.

Certainly seems that way.

My lord, this team continues to massively downgrade the talent of a team composed of lethargic albatrosses, scrubs, and relatively underwhelming young potential.

Diener is the type of player who is adequate for emergency PG duty, a third-stringer at absolute best. Already pinning him as the backup point guard is bull****, I don't know how Larry and Donnie possibly feel that way.

Unclebuck
07-19-2007, 01:49 PM
UB, he's a point guard and he can't defend my shoe. That's all you'll need to know about him.

I was afraid of that

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 01:50 PM
Oh, he's easily the best shooter on the team, he'd be the best shooter on a lot of teams. Problem is he's too small and weak to give you anything else out there.

Realistically, this is probably the best place for him. He'll fit into Jimmy's offense and Harter's defense will cover for him as best it can. But, again, unless a trade is coming, this means Quis is our primary backup at point. And with two huge injury risks in front of him, you'd like somebody who has shown he can do something, anything besides shoot.

A guy who shot 36% from three last year and 43% from the field would be the best shooter on a lot of teams?

MagicRat
07-19-2007, 01:54 PM
Welcome, Travis!

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 01:55 PM
I see people comparing him to Cabbage, and that's not really fair. This kid's got a much better attitude. I see him as the little HS gym rat who made it to the NBA on pure willpower. (IOW, he's Rudy, without the dirty Notre Dame associations :-p). I'm sure he's a great kid and somebody you'd love to have on your team. But he's not somebody you bring in to fix your point guard position.

diamonddave00
07-19-2007, 01:56 PM
OMG 3years??? Guess gives Crittenden time to develop after we get him in early Aug. ( half kidding ) . So its now Tinsley , Daniels, Owens and Diener at the point , hopefully Travis won't have trouble being admitted to players dressing rooms around the nba , he's the proto-type Indiana high school guard , a small gym rat.

bnd45
07-19-2007, 01:56 PM
He was good at Marquette even after Wade left.

Like I said earlier if this is a deal similar to Rush's then this is a good move. We've picked up 2 guys who can shoot the 3 really well and all people want to focus on is their lack of defense. Last year we were lousy on both ends of the floor. O'Brien and Harter are supposed to be great at getting guys to play team defense so let's give them a chance to work their magic while still giving us multiple guys who can put the ball in the hoop.

Unclebuck
07-19-2007, 01:57 PM
I hope he's the 3rd string point guard playing behind (starter and Daniels).

If our starter plays 35 minutes, and Daniels plays 10 minutes or so as the backup point, then Diener will be there for spot minutes or when we need a really good shooter

diamonddave00
07-19-2007, 01:59 PM
Guess since Pacers made the announcement of adding Travis , but none about Baston they let the deadline pass on matching the Raptors offer sheet.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 02:03 PM
OMG 3years??? Guess gives Crittenden time to develop after we get him in early Aug. ( half kidding ) . So its now Tinsley , Daniels, Owens and Diener at the point , hopefully Travis won't have trouble being admitted to players dressing rooms around the nba , he's the proto-type Indiana high school guard , a small gym rat.

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/players/playerpage/555939


Travis Diener discovered what happens when you don't play much. Diener, the second-year guard, was on the inactive list and dressed in street clothes on the bench Thursday night. When he tried to go into the locker room in the middle of the game, he was stopped by security and asked for identification.
(Updated 03/09/2007).

Unclebuck
07-19-2007, 02:03 PM
I do certainly hope that this guy is a much better shooter than Saras - his shooting was average.

bnd45
07-19-2007, 02:06 PM
Deiner's 2 years in the league shooting the 3:

06/07: 18-50 (36%)
05/06: 25-57 (44%)

UB, definitely agree with your minute breakdown/assessment of the PG situation. Diener seems like a perfect 3rd PG/situational player. As of today, I like the move.

diamonddave00
07-19-2007, 02:06 PM
Yeah Keg -I looked at Dieners pic , I know I'm getting old but kids I coached in little league looked older than him.

Fool
07-19-2007, 02:07 PM
Funny that pwee is his biggest supporter in the thread.

obnoxiousmodesty
07-19-2007, 02:09 PM
Wow. Three years. The man could shoot while at Marquette, but I have no clue if he can do that in the NBA. Three years. I'm sure the contract isn't huge (it better not be), but wow. My goodness.

Will Galen
07-19-2007, 02:11 PM
I really wonder if Deiner will be used in the SG role ( much like how we initially used Sarunas ) where he will primarily play next to ball-handlers like Tinsley, Marquis or Dunleavy where they pretty much run the point. I'm guessing that Deiner will be standing in the corner...waiting for the ball to get to him and simply shooting the ball.

Whats wrong with you Cable? You actually want to discuss a player and not *****. What kind of board do you think this is? Oh wait . . .

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 02:12 PM
Well, again, assuming no big trade, this tells me Quis will not be starting at the 2. He's too fragile to play starting 2 and backup 1 minutes. He'll backup both positions.

Slick Pinkham
07-19-2007, 02:14 PM
draft profile:

http://www.nbadraft.net/profiles/travisdiener.asp

#34
Travis Diener
Birthdate: 3/1/82
NBA Position: Point Guard
College: Marquette
Class: Senior
Ht: 6-1
Wt: 175
Hometown: Fond du Lac, WI
High School: Goodrich
Team Site Profile 2004 Stats

NBA Comparison: Dan Dickau

Size- At MU Diener is listed at 6'1", but in high school he was listed at 5'11". I assume he's somewhere in between-approximately 6'0", which would make him about two inches shorter then the average point guard. He does not play bigger then his listed height (as opposed to former teammate Dwyane Wade, a nearly 6'5" guard who plays like he's 6'7" or taller), as he possess an average wingspan and below-average leaping ability. His strength could also be an issue. Before his senior season (he'll be 23 in March), he weighed 160-165 lbs. He has noticeably bulked up, and now weighs about 175, but he still is much physically weaker then just about every NBA point guard, and he lacks the blazing quickness of other lithe guards, such as Allen Iverson or Tony Parker.

Wingspan/Hands-Travis appears to only have only an average wingspan, which is a tremendous detriment to undersized players. Many players a few inches shorter compensate by having a long wingspan, thus making them play bigger then their listed height, i.e. the 6'61/2" Josh Howard with a 7'2" wingspan lets him play like he's 6'9". For points, long arms help them interfere in passing lanes. However, Diener will not have this advantage. But to his credit, he deflects a good deal of passes, much more than someone with his height and wingspan would indicate. Another glaring weakness he has are his small hands. He can't palm a ball, making penetration more difficult, although his game isn't based on drives.

Overall Defense- His defense at the collegiate level is above par, mainly due to his tremendous effort. Diener possessed slightly above-average quickness in college, but in the NBA that will likely be below average. He'll suffer against players like Tony Parker or Stephon Marbury, who'll blow by him at their whim. As mentioned already, he has active hands, which cause a good deal of steals and deflections. His hustle is impressive, he never takes a possession off, always goes 100% on defense, which many college stars don't. Travis has a blue-collar mentality, and isn't afraid to defend anyone, but his physical limitations are troubling.


Overall Offense-Travis' offensive potential is far superior to his defense. His long-range shooting is dynamite, as he displays range several feet behind the NBA three-point line and a sniper-like release. He frequently needs to carry MU's often anemic and dysfunctional offense. He shoots 39% from three, and that number would be much higher if he had an offensively competent post player (the leading primarily "interior" scorer is freshman Ryan Amoroso at a paltry 6.5 ppg). MU's offense frequently gets bogged down with him in, forcing Diener into tough shots, also lowering his percentage. But without Diener, the Golden Eagles don't have any flow to their offense at all. Travis' driving ability suffers due to his lack of quickness and a good first step. When he does penetrate, he exhibits grit, determination, and isn't afraid to attack players a foot taller. His free-throw shooting, when he gets to the line, is outstanding. However, there are have been games in which he attempts 10 to 15 throws, and games in which he doesn't get to the line at all. Despite excelling at long range shots, his mid-range game is surprisingly sound. His passing ability is okay, but nothing great. His transition passing is also adequate, but it won't ever be confused with Steve Nash or Jason Kidd. What he does exceptionally well in the full court is stop and shoot from three-point range, although he can often get carried away. Due to his small size and somewhat slow feet, his penetrate and pass ability won't ever be great. Dwyane Wade was much better at driving and dishing. Despite his weaknesses, his overall offense is among the best in the NCAA, especially considering his weak supporting cast.

Athleticism-Diener's athleticism is a good deal below average by NBA standards. His speed and quickness are okay if he where 6'5", but its pretty bad for a six-footer, and a little below average for the typical 6'2" point guard. He might have trouble getting enough space to release his jumper due to his small stature and lack of agility, although his rapid release will probably help compensate for this. Travis' leaping ability is mediocre for a college player, but borderline atrocious for an NBAer. He has never (in the 20 plus games that I've seen) had an in-game dunk, and its doubtful he has ever thrown one down.

Versatility-Another weakness for Travis, as his height forces him to play point guard despite owning skills that would be more appropriate for a shooting guard. He could play off the ball if the teams point guard was capable of guarding twos. On defense he could only guard point guards.

Experience-He's a three-year starter at MU who is in the top two in scoring in program history, and probably will be number one at season's end. He will be twenty three in early March, meaning he was a year behind in school (he did not redshirt). He isn't very raw, but he could conceivably improve in strength and maybe nimbleness. Diener also could improve his currently superb shooting skills, by, practice, man.

Effort-Travis' effort is fantastic. He goes all-out at every minute of the game. He never gives up, wether Marquette leads by twenty or loses by twenty. His decision making has greatly improved since he first became the starter as a sophomore, after playing mostly shooting guard as a freshmen. His shooting has always remained about the same, although he as a soph he had much better teammates, and took better shots. Despite this, his percentage this year is higher, but less then last year, as he has become more aggressive finding his offense.

Intangibles-Diener's the unquestioned emotional leader of his team. If teammate Steve Novak had Diener's heart, he'd be a 22 ppg 8 rpg player. His fiery demeanor spreads to everyone on the team. He has a decent basketball IQ, maybe a shade above average for an NBA player. Travis has a swagger to his game that few hold. He is very coachable and well-like by the entire MU basketball community.

NBA comparison-Travis will likely have a career similar to New Orleans' Dan Dickau or Atlanta's Tyronn Lue. He has Dickau's shooting touch with athleticism closer to (but not at) Lue's level.


Bottom Line-Diener will likely be a career backup, maybe a starter for a his prime years. Won't ever be a stud due to his physical limits, he'll find a niche in the NBA as a long-range bomber if zones are still in use. His prime years could see him produce numbers like 11 ppg 4 apg 1 rpg 1 spg. Another alternate for Travis is Europe, which is more congruent to his game. Oversees whe could put up close to his college numbers, and may make more money.

Young
07-19-2007, 02:14 PM
Not to excited about this signing.

McLeod or Pargo were the guys I really wanted.

I really don't know that Diener is any better than Andre Owens. Seriously I wonder.

Hopefully Diener suprises us, that's all I got to say.

As much as I am not excited about this signing it isn't that bad. When you look at what we need, one of our needs is a backup point guard. Take a look at the free agent opitions and you have Pargo, McLeod, Brevin Knight, Dee Brown, Diener, Earl Boykins, Charlie Bell, Jeff McInnis, and Derek Fisher.

Bell will probably be out of our price range, Fisher wanted to go to LA or NY, McInnis seems to have an attitude problem, Knight is not a good fit, Boykins will likely want more money then we wanted to spend. Dee Brown is likely to stay in Utah and not any better then any of the guys on the list. Unproven.

That leaves you with McLeod, Pargo, and Diener. I have no idea why we wouldn't/couldn't sign either McLeod or Pargo but I guess we couldn't and that left us with Diener. Hurray.

This may not be the big change everyone is anticipating but so what quit crying about it. We signed a backup point guard which is something we needed. I'm sure if the right deal for Jermaine comes along we will make the deal so just be paitent. It's a long summer that is only about half way over. Training Camp isn't until October. We still have 2 1/2 months for something to get done.

BobbyMac
07-19-2007, 02:16 PM
I think this is the 3rd or 4th point guard....still think we will sign McLeod if the price is resonable.

DisplacedKnick
07-19-2007, 02:21 PM
Well, you have your shooter and your backup PG.

The league better watch out.

Seriously - until this thread got to about 70 replies (didn't read it until then) I thought he'd been signed to a camp invite - three years???

diamonddave00
07-19-2007, 02:22 PM
I'll beat that old dead horse I still think the Pacers will get either Crittenden or Farmar in a JO trade. Personally I hope Crittenden.

As I see it whether that occurs or not signing Owens and Diener prob 2 year 1.5 mil total with 3rd year option , I think both Armstrong and McLeod are history here.

I'd not be surprised to see Armstrong end up in Orlando.

Kraft
07-19-2007, 02:23 PM
Me, I really like Travis Deiner. Always have. I wouldn't be upset at all if he was a No. 2 PG. It's only 12-15 minutes a game, and he can put up 12-15 points in that span on a hot night. If he gets lit up defensively, put in Quis, or whoever else.

My biggest question, with Tinsley's history, is what happens when Diener is needed to start for > 10 games at a time. That worries me.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 02:23 PM
I think this is the 3rd or 4th point guard....still think we will sign McLeod if the price is resonable.

That would make me feel a lot better. But we're running out of money.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 02:33 PM
First off...Isn't DA coming back to be in that PG rotation?

Second...I think a better comparison than Cabbage would be a guy like Tim Legler. He's not quite that great of a shooter, of course, but he is one of the best in the league and would routinely knock down 4 or 5 per night at Marquette (a closer line, I know, but I watched A TON of Marquette basketball back then and trust me, he has PLENTY of range). 45% in this offense is not over-estimating his ability, IMO.

I think given 10 mpg in this offense, he'll be helpful. He couldn't have a better coach than J'OB, so we'll see if he ever gets on the court. Because he is definitely in the Eddie House/Salim Stoudamire category of someone that will never see many minutes because of poor defense. And unlike them, it's not that he doesn't know where to stand/what to do, he's just too slow to do it. Putting him on the floor with Tins is probably not possible, but if Quis is gonna get some run at the point, he could be a nice guy to open the lane and keep wing defenders from sagging.

The three years seems pretty ridiculous and unnecessary, but it can't be for over $5 million, so it's not anything to really get upset about. All and all, he's a heady kid who knows the game and can knock em down from damn near half-court, so we could have a worse guy as our 11th man.

And if all else fails, it's at least one more guy the probably won't get arrested at least.

Rajah Brown
07-19-2007, 02:33 PM
C'mon guys, let' give the little fella a break. He's our scrawny,
pasty white version of O'B's old sharp-shooter, Dana Barros.

And besides, he should be able to defend the better NBA PG's
at least as well as Jeff Van Gundy put the shackles on Zo
Mourning way back when !

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 02:34 PM
Me, I really like Travis Deiner. Always have. I wouldn't be upset at all if he was a No. 2 PG. It's only 12-15 minutes a game, and he can put up 12-15 points in that span on a hot night. If he gets lit up defensively, put in Quis, or whoever else.

My biggest question, with Tinsley's history, is what happens when Diener is needed to start for > 10 games at a time. That worries me.

He's played 49 games in two years (zero games missed to injuries), and you're comfortable with playing him every night?

Take a look at his game log, playing behind Nelson and Arroyo. It's sobering.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/travis_diener/game_by_game_stats.html

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 02:35 PM
Wow, 2 summers in a row a PD request gets honored. First UB gets Daniels and now LG gets Diener. Further proof that TPTB read PD?!?

Everyone place your orders now!



JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....JOSH HOWARD....

CableKC
07-19-2007, 02:37 PM
Whats wrong with you Cable? You actually want to discuss a player and not *****. What kind of board do you think this is? Oh wait . . .
I'm just trying to take the high-road here. As UB said....we can't really judge the guy until we see what he can do.

One thing I noticed that has really stuck out that no one has brought up is that in the 2 full seasons that he has played in Orlando...he only played in 49 games. I'm checking on the RealGM Magic board to find out why that is.

From what I can read in ( what had become ) the "Travis Deiner Appreciation" thread on the RealGM Magic board, he's seems to be riding the pine behind some other Guards and never had a chance to really prove himself and was more of a casualty of roster limiations that the Magic have and not because he sucked or anything. What's also good is that he seems to have a good following there as a good charecter guy and player that simply never had a chance to show what he could do.

aero
07-19-2007, 02:39 PM
I guess were trying for the lottery again next year ? ...maybe we wont trade that pick away before the trade deadline...

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 02:42 PM
Speaking of comparisons, I found the reason Larry signed him.

http://www.nba.com/magic/news/Get_to_Know_Travis_Diener-145776-800.html


We have heard everyone compare you to Scott Skiles – do you compare yourself to him?
"In some ways. That is an extreme compliment for me when people compare me to guys like that because he is a great player. The similarities are that he is competitive and he is a hard worker, and I am grateful that people would say that about me. That is a great compliment for me.”

Hey, Lar, we wanted him as a coach!

(And don't for one second think that Travis has one-tenth of the ability Skiles had.)

Young
07-19-2007, 02:46 PM
Wow, really suprised at the Magic fan's comments on RealGM. They love this guy.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=693808

Kraft
07-19-2007, 02:47 PM
He's played 49 games in two years (zero games missed to injuries), and you're comfortable with playing him every night?

On a team that's this bad ... yeah.

NuffSaid
07-19-2007, 02:50 PM
At least he (Travis Diener) can shoot the 3.
BINGO! That, and maybe McLeod's asking price, is probably what intrigued TPTB to Diener. McLeod went 7-22 3-PAs last year compared to Diener, 18-50. With JOB wanting shooters and both McLeod and Diener pretty much being stuck as B/U-PGs regardless of how you slice it...

'Nuff Said.

diamonddave00
07-19-2007, 02:53 PM
Little article on Travis Diener in Orlando summer league last summer, perhaps a reason to have tiny optomism.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2518659
Updated: July 14, 2006, 10:14 AM ET

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The 6-foot-nothing, buck-70-pound guard with the floppy hair and boyish looks was doing his best Steve Nash impersonation Thursday -- right down to the eye-popping, jaw-dropping statistics.

Only these 34 points, seven 3-pointers, five assists and four rebounds didn't come from first-round picks Tyrus Thomas or Marcus Williams.


You can only hope to contain Travis Diener in Orlando -- he dropped 34 on the Bulls.
Instead, it was all-but-forgotten Orlando Magic guard Travis Diener, who was playing the role of giant killer and looking so very much like Nash the way he controlled every aspect of Thursday's 93-87 defeat of Chicago.
Charlotte rookie Adam Morrison is the unquestioned star of this week's Pepsi Pro Summer League in Orlando (and a primary reason why the Magic's Web site has been inundated with more than 1 million visitors this week). But quite possibly no player has caused more of a stir than the player who could hardly get on the floor this past season for the Magic.

Diener made 11 of his 16 shots, seven of his 10 3-pointers and five free throws against Chicago's Aaron Miles, Jackie Manuel and Eddie Basden. Of course, that's not exactly the starting lineup in the next NBA All-Star Game, but virtually no one has been able to slow down the cat-quick Diener this week. Through four games, he's averaging 20.3 points, 6.5 assists and 4.0 rebounds a game.

Most importantly to Magic fans who just endured a season and a half of Steve Francis' dribble-dribble-dribble-turnover routine, Diener has turned the ball over exactly four times in four games.

Amazingly, Diener, the smallest guy on the court most of the time, has played with the most swagger. Getting that confidence back after playing just 23 games this past season has been a work in progress.

"My confidence is as high as it's ever been,'' Diener said. "I know that I can play at this level and contribute to a team. I'm just happy I've had this chance, and I just want to keep playing the way I'm playing.''

Because he has just a partial guarantee in his contract, it's no certainty that he will be back with the Magic next season. And even if he is, he'll likely be stuck behind Jameer Nelson and Carlos Arroyo for minutes at point guard.

But he knows considering the way he's played this week, he belongs in the NBA -- even if he's smaller than practically everyone else around him.

"I'm just having fun out there, and I think it shows,'' he said.

REST STOP
Playing four games in the past four days is starting to take its toll on the players. First-round picks Thabo Sefolosha (Bulls) and Shawne Williams (Pacers) didn't play Thursday because of back and hamstring injuries.

Diener likely will sit out Friday because of a nagging foot injury.

Hicks
07-19-2007, 02:55 PM
I'm always amused how so many of you are so quick to ridicule the Pacers for signing this guy (almost reminds me of when the Pacers signed Anthony Johnson several years ago - most of you thought he was horrible)

I know nothing about Travis Diener , for all I know he'll beat out Tinsley or he might get cut the first day of training camp - I just don't know.

However, I remember last year a few experts I respect were pretty high on this guy. He had for awhile beaten out Arrojo for the backup, but then Ithink he got injured and never played much.

So I really have no idea if this guy is any good or not, but I'm willing to wait and see before I ridicule the signing

It somewhat reminds me of the fans throwing themselves from their high-story windows in despair after the Stanko trade on draft night. Small fry, people. Give the guy a chance; 3 years doesn't mean big money. It could be the minimum for all we know. I doubt it's a lot either way. He busts his *** off and can make 3's. You don't think Indiana fans won't love him for that?

Shade
07-19-2007, 02:57 PM
Wow, really suprised at the Magic fan's comments on RealGM. They love this guy.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=693808

Interesting. I really hope he makes it work here. But I'm still very underwhelmed by TPTB's apparent unwillingness to bring in proven players.

NuffSaid
07-19-2007, 02:57 PM
DiamondDave,

That has got to be the best read about this guy thus far!

Good find!!

Shade
07-19-2007, 02:58 PM
It somewhat reminds me of the fans throwing themselves from their high-story windows in despair after the Stanko trade on draft night. Small fry, people. Give the guy a chance; 3 years doesn't mean big money. It could be the minimum for all we know. I doubt it's a lot either way. He busts his *** off and can make 3's. You don't think Indiana fans won't love him for that?

I think most of us are upset that TPTB are apparently doing very little to improve on a lottery team, and not so much upset with the players themselves.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 02:59 PM
Well, hopefully he'll be a late bloomer like Skiles or Eric Snow. Or it was a Primoz situation where Brian Hill was just too damn stupid to play him. But getting such little run behind the likes of Nelson and Arroyo doesn't instill me with much confidence.

idioteque
07-19-2007, 02:59 PM
3 years for a third string PG....THREE YEARS???

I don't understand TPTB's logic in signing third string PG's for long term deals. This seems like Eddie Gill all over again to me.

Hopefully he can at least shoot well for us, if not I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see accusations that we're whitewashing the team with overpaid, unathletic stiffs.

What I am hoping to get out of him is a poor man's Scott Skiles, which is pretty sad. At least he does have a good work ethic.

I'm really lukewarm about this one, but if he can go out and hit 2 or 3 3's a game I'll definately be happy.

Well, since Indiana doesn't relate to hip hop at all, I guess this is a good signing. :rolleyes:

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 03:00 PM
It somewhat reminds me of the fans throwing themselves from their high-story windows in despair after the Stanko trade on draft night. Small fry, people. Give the guy a chance; 3 years doesn't mean big money. It could be the minimum for all we know. I doubt it's a lot either way. He busts his *** off and can make 3's. You don't think Indiana fans won't love him for that?


Our 11th/12th man isn't very good.....We're DOOOOOOOOOMMMEED

NuffSaid
07-19-2007, 03:03 PM
Wow, really suprised at the Magic fan's comments on RealGM. They love this guy.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=693808
I like what they're saying about him over there, especially this one poster's comments:

"That is gonna come back and bite us, but only us, on the a$$.

33 points, 10 long range bombs and 1 poster and1 on Dwight, to go with a league record 34 assists. Then averages 5 and 2 for the rest of the year."

Sounds like the guy can play! We just don't know it yet. I'm all for giving him a chance before doggin' him out. Who's with me? :D

RWB
07-19-2007, 03:04 PM
3 years for a third string PG....THREE YEARS???

I don't understand TPTB's logic in signing third string PG's for long term deals. This seems like Eddie Gill all over again to me.

Hopefully he can at least shoot well for us, if not I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see accusations that we're whitewashing the team with overpaid, unathletic stiffs.

What I am hoping to get out of him is a poor man's Scott Skiles, which is pretty sad. At least he does have a good work ethic.

I'm really lukewarm about this one, but if he can go out and hit 2 or 3 3's a game I'll definately be happy.

Well, since Indiana doesn't relate to hip hop at all, I guess this is a good signing. :rolleyes:

You're right and to do this after the Pacers signed those white players like Rush, Graham, and Owens. :blush:

Anthem
07-19-2007, 03:04 PM
I assume it's fair to think that we signed him at the minimum, because the league pays most of the salary for a minimum-level player.

Any more than that would be insanity.

Oneal07
07-19-2007, 03:07 PM
I don't know who he is. . .But I love seein new players, so I guess I can wait till the start of the season to see wht's the deal

idioteque
07-19-2007, 03:09 PM
You're right and to do this after the Pacers signed those white players like Rush, Graham, and Owens. :blush:

If Diener makes the roster (which with his contract he should) then 1/3 of our roster will be made up of American white players. With the few of those that are even in the league today, that's sort of surprising.

I'm in NO WAY accusing TPTB of racism or anything like that, but if you really think it is necessary to build a team made up of boy scouts, there are better ways to do it. A great example of a good character team that can win is the Toronto Raptors, but Colangelo is a lot smarter than Bird so I doubt we see that happening anytime soon.

QuickRelease
07-19-2007, 03:10 PM
:lol: Cue LG33.






PS. I can't believe this guy is going to be our backup PG. :lmao: Its gotten so bad that we just signed a guy who averaged 4 ppg and 1 apg in 26 games to be our backup PG. God bless Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh.

As opposed to whom? I don't understand why people are so stuck on stats. Stats don't always tell the whole tale of how effective a player can be for you. This is a nice signing.

RWB
07-19-2007, 03:11 PM
DC, sorry I was reading too much into it. The whitewashing term just kind of stuck out and I was the one with the incorrect thoughts.

idioteque
07-19-2007, 03:17 PM
DC, sorry I was reading too much into it. The whitewashing term just kind of stuck out and I was the one with the incorrect thoughts.

It's cool.

Pacemaker
07-19-2007, 03:18 PM
Can we still get Pargo?

Hicks
07-19-2007, 03:18 PM
Once again so many have to keep bringing up that he's white. We need some of those black people. Get me some black people. Doesn't look so good when you reverse it, does it? I'm beyond sick of it.

idioteque
07-19-2007, 03:19 PM
I hope that we can at least still re-sign McLeod.

Tinsley-McLeod-Diener really isn't that bad if Diener brings his shot with him to Indiana.

ajbry
07-19-2007, 03:22 PM
Once again so many have to keep bringing up that he's white. We need some of those black people. Get me some black people. Doesn't look so good when you reverse it, does it? I'm beyond sick of it.

Let's be honest here, we're bringing in a pretty large number of white role players, compared to most teams (except the Jazz). It ain't like the Pacers acquired Steve Nash, Mike Miller, and Kirk Hinrich. We're bringing in obscure "good, wholesome white guys."

Pacemaker
07-19-2007, 03:22 PM
How about acquiring Arroyo and his expiring contract?

Hicks
07-19-2007, 03:26 PM
I think most of us are upset that TPTB are apparently doing very little to improve on a lottery team, and not so much upset with the players themselves.

What did you honestly expect to happen? We're $2mm from the luxury tax (well less now I guess), so the MLE is out, and it's a crappy crop this year anyway (the good players stayed home or weren't interested). You expect us to pull good trades out of our butt this summer, why, because now we really need it?

Sidenote, the streak of this forum complaining about what someone can't do 100x more than talking about what he CAN do continues. We didn't sign Rush and Diener to be all-stars, we signed them to make shots and support O'Neal and Granger. They're cheap and can shoot. Shocking.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 03:30 PM
Once again so many have to keep bringing up that he's white. We need some of those black people. Get me some black people. Doesn't look so good when you reverse it, does it? I'm beyond sick of it.

Actually, you hear that argument in baseball all the time, that there aren't enough black players.

Hicks, I know it's a sore subject with you, but you have to realize that the day Larry Bird said on ESPN that the NBA needed more white stars he opened himself up to this kind of questioning.

RWB
07-19-2007, 03:31 PM
What did you honestly expect to happen? We're $2mm from the luxury tax (well less now I guess), so the MLE is out, and it's a crappy crop this year anyway (the good players stayed home or weren't interested). You expect us to pull good trades out of our butt this summer, why, because now we really need it?


Agreed, and the only big spash will be if JO is finally traded.

idioteque
07-19-2007, 03:31 PM
What did you honestly expect to happen? We're $2mm from the luxury tax (well less now I guess), so the MLE is out, and it's a crappy crop this year anyway (the good players stayed home or weren't interested). You expect us to pull good trades out of our butt this summer, why, because now we really need it?

Sidenote, the streak of this forum complaining about what someone can't do 100x more than talking about what he CAN do continues. We didn't sign Rush and Diener to be all-stars, we signed them to make shots and support O'Neal and Granger. They're cheap and can shoot. Shocking.

Agreed, I am just puzzled why we can't bring in guys who are good shooters but also at least decent defenders. For some reason the two often seem to be mutually exclusive. I am just hoping that somehow Harter's system can cover that up.

Ragnar
07-19-2007, 03:35 PM
Why could we not even talk to Brevin Knight. He is a real honest to God pg. Yes he will only give us 26 games a year but if those are the games Jamaal is injured then we are in good shape. Just sit him until Jamaal goes down and let him start then.

Hicks
07-19-2007, 03:37 PM
Yeah those Magic fans really loved him. Called him "Doogie" (Howser, M.D.). Hopefully he's not just their answer to Jimmy Hunter in that regard.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 03:39 PM
And honestly, this is the best type of white dude to have. Guys like Dunleavy and Murphy who are supposed to be good and are known as overpaid aren't gonna become huge fan favorites anytime soon.

But you throw a short, little, boy-scout-looking white kid out there on the court and let him hit a 26 footer every once in a while and he immediately becomes someone who gets huge cheers all the time.

It's nearly guarenteed that casual fans are gonna love this guy.

Especially after LoneGranger gets drunk one night in Conseco and stumbles onto the court in a Marquette jersey to give him a big ol' hug.

Since86
07-19-2007, 03:39 PM
Why could we not even talk to Brevin Knight. He is a real honest to God pg. Yes he will only give us 26 games a year but if those are the games Jamaal is injured then we are in good shape. Just sit him until Jamaal goes down and let him start then.


What did you honestly expect to happen? We're $2mm from the luxury tax (well less now I guess), so the MLE is out, and it's a crappy crop this year anyway (the good players stayed home or weren't interested). You expect us to pull good trades out of our butt this summer, why, because now we really need it?

Knight is going to command more money. Money that TPTB don't want to spend.

QuickRelease
07-19-2007, 03:39 PM
Agreed, I am just puzzled why we can't bring in guys who are good shooters but also at least decent defenders. For some reason the two often seem to be mutually exclusive. I am just hoping that somehow Harter's system can cover that up.

Well, I'd say because when a team gets players like that, they tend to hang onto them. It's not like there's all these options out there, and the Pacers are picking over the good to take lesser players. Why is it that we extend so much negativity? I'm personally happy that they're trying to dig out of all the negative crap they've been under. Jameer Nelson is the Magic point of the present/future, and Arroyo is a solid veteran backup point guard. Judging Diener off his early couple of years in Orlando is unfair. He's not a star, but he has heart, doesn't sulk all the time, and does his job. Something we need much more of on this team. This move hardly deserves the crapping on that it's getting.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 03:41 PM
What did you honestly expect to happen? We're $2mm from the luxury tax (well less now I guess), so the MLE is out, and it's a crappy crop this year anyway (the good players stayed home or weren't interested). You expect us to pull good trades out of our butt this summer, why, because now we really need it?

I expect us to go out and get somebody who can contribute, like a Pargo who can shoot and defend and has proven NBA experience as a primary backup and fill-in starter, instead of wasting what little money we do have on fringe guys who will get thrown to the wolves and we'll hope don't get eaten alive if/when our primary guards go down to injury.

Young
07-19-2007, 03:42 PM
What did you honestly expect to happen? We're $2mm from the luxury tax (well less now I guess), so the MLE is out, and it's a crappy crop this year anyway (the good players stayed home or weren't interested). You expect us to pull good trades out of our butt this summer, why, because now we really need it?

Sidenote, the streak of this forum complaining about what someone can't do 100x more than talking about what he CAN do continues. We didn't sign Rush and Diener to be all-stars, we signed them to make shots and support O'Neal and Granger. They're cheap and can shoot. Shocking.

I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

I am amazed that we talk about making major changes this summer when we have done that since we traded Ron. I don't know if people realize that the only guys left from that 2004 Conference Finals team is Jermaine, Jamaal, and Jeff, that's it.

Sorry but like a year and a half ago we traded Ron (who wanted a trade) for Peja and then last summer used Peja to get Al. Then this past winter we trade two starters, Al and Stephen Jackson to Golden State for Murphy, Dunleavy, and Ike Diogu. On top of that we have traded AJ for Armstrong and scrubs while swaping Austin Croshere for Marquis Daniels. We have made major changes. We need to get this team to the point where we can let it be and see what they can do.

Oh on top of all these changes we have changed the coaching staff. Not only getting a new head coach but even when Rick Carlise was here it seemed he always had a couple new faces next to him on the bench every year.

I really am sick of people *****ing about us getting white players and I don't understand how people can complain about us not making major changes this summer when we have been doing it for the past few years. I'd almost rather just let the team be and see what O'Brien and his staff can do with them.

Hicks
07-19-2007, 03:42 PM
Actually, you hear that argument in baseball all the time, that there aren't enough black players.

Hicks, I know it's a sore subject with you, but you have to realize that the day Larry Bird said on ESPN that the NBA needed more white stars he opened himself up to this kind of questioning.

Got a link to that? All I remember him saying to **** people off was he got offended when a white player tried to guard him.

Hicks
07-19-2007, 03:43 PM
Agreed, I am just puzzled why we can't bring in guys who are good shooters but also at least decent defenders. For some reason the two often seem to be mutually exclusive. I am just hoping that somehow Harter's system can cover that up.

Because if they can do both they command a lot more money than we can shell out, and frankly there's not many of them.

Hicks
07-19-2007, 03:46 PM
I expect us to go out and get somebody who can contribute, like a Pargo who can shoot and defend and has proven NBA experience as a primary backup and fill-in starter, instead of wasting what little money we do have on fringe guys who will get thrown to the wolves and we'll hope don't get eaten alive if/when our primary guards go down to injury.

The Pargo that's such a good shooter and defender he's already looking for his 4th team in a young career?

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 03:47 PM
Got a link to that? All I remember him saying to **** people off was he got offended when a white player tried to guard him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1818396

Since86
07-19-2007, 03:47 PM
Pargo is looking for a 4 year deal, and just opted out of one paying him over 1mil. Trying to land him, would bring us close, if not over, to paying the luxury tax.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 03:48 PM
If ya'll think Jannero Pargo is in any way, shape or form the answer to our problems, we may as well just move this franchise to Vegas now.

Tom White
07-19-2007, 03:49 PM
OK, until right now and I looked up his name on Hoopshype I had no idea if he was black or white. I think the pacers are trying to attract the female fans - I could see where they will think he is cute.

http://hoopshype.com/players/travis_diener.htm

Good grief, the Pacers signed Opie Taylor's little brother.

CableKC
07-19-2007, 03:54 PM
Here are some of the responses that I got back from RealGM Magic fans when I posted the following questions on that RealGM Travis Deiner thread:

1 ) Is he able to effectively run the point...especially if we are forced to start him?

or

Is he better suited as an "occasional" 2nd option PG or "best suited to be a" 3rd option PG?

2 ) What was his role on the team....was he counted on to be the guy that stands in the corner waiting for the ball to get to him so that he can take a 3pt shot ( this is what we did with that Euro PG that we signed a few years ago )?

or

Was he running the Point Guard duties when he was on the floor?

3 ) Was he injured during the majority of his tenure in Orlando?

4 ) Is he a good locker-room and/or Charecter guy?




Question #1- Diener can very effectively handle the point guard position..He is a good passer, has great court vision..And he does not force things..He is best suited (as of now) as a backup but IMO could become a starter in this league..Especially with the attributes of his.

Question #2-Honestly, Diener was never a player to sit in the corner and wait for a pass..He was the floor general when he was on the court..He rarely shot the ball.It seemed the only time he did is when the coach gave him the command to..He is usually a distributor...But when he wants he can score, Seemingly with ease..Not like a Mike Jordan, but I have never whitnessed a game where Diener was 0-2 he was always a decent FG % and doesn't just jack shots up.

Question #3- Brian Hill was an idiot, he gave the minutes to cry baby, and chucker extrodinare Carlos Arroyo.. Brian Hill was not and is not good with young talent and won't play them..Diener only played a few games with meaningful minutes, but those were played tremendously by him.He would quite often finish out the game over Nelson and play gritty defense..


Question #4- Diener is a good character guy who doesn't moan and groan about crap..He goes out and does his job.

IMO: Diener was a good guard here, even though he didn't get many minutues or games...He was too good and too consistent of a player for his coach..He isn't by any means the most athletic, the best shooter, the best defender or passer..But he is good at all of that..On top of it he has a high basketball IQ and that never give up attitude..Any team to get him is lucky and we all hope him the best..Don't be suprised to see his normal games be a 4pt 4 ast 1 TO type game..He doesn't put alot in the stat column but he doesn't put anything negative into it, and is just one of those players that just makes the team flow...




1. Diener never started for us, and was given the role of Nelson's backup for about two weeks last season when Arroyo played like crap, in that time he effectively ran the team but did nothing special.

2. The three-ball is his strength, but the majority of his shots went up in garbage time...when nobody else worthwhile was on the floor and most decisions didn't matter. Hence, let it rip.

3. He never had an injury of note in his tenure here, he just had a lot of DNP-CD's. Although..he is tiny...so it will be interesting to see how he holds up if he gets some serious PT this year.

4. Nothing was written about Diener being a negative influence in the locker room...he never made any mistakes that were publicized...and he always seemed to be smiling and involved while on the bench.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 03:55 PM
The Pargo that's such a good shooter and defender he's already looking for his 4th team in a young career?

Once again, if I can't use that argument against Mark Jackson, nobody can use that argument. :-p

And I wouldn't call 3 teams in 5 years a bad thing or a young career. AJ was on 5 teams in 4 years before he went to NJ.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 04:00 PM
Good grief, the Pacers signed Opie Taylor's little brother.

Diener's response:

Opie Taylor? I got your Opie....You big, bad, Gomer Pyle, droopy-eyed son of a *****.

You still throwing up bricks?

What is this? A mason's convention? I need like a welding torch to play in this league.

I got an idea...Let's stop and gather up all these bricks and build a homeless shelter. That way, maybe your mother has a place to live. And your sister, too. I want your mother and your sister out of my house immediately.


http://videodetective.com/photos/036/000153_13.jpg

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105812/

naptown
07-19-2007, 04:04 PM
C - Murphy/Foster/Harrison
PF - JO/Diogu/Mystery PF
SF - Granger/Dun/Williams
SG - Rush/Quis/Graham
PG - Tins/Diener/Owens

I'm sorry folks, but that ain't gonna ****ing cut it. If this is the team we're going to roll into the season with, I revise my prediction of 35-36 wins to 29-32 wins. That team just blows.

Oh please. We are still 10 weeks from training camp. I would think after embarrassing yourself with the Colts last year you would learn. Just goes to prove how little you really know and understand sports. That could be said about 90% of this board though.

Moses
07-19-2007, 04:06 PM
Well, I can't say I'm that surprised. I don't think he's as awful as some of you think..and he will have some use. At least he can make wide open 3 pointers..which nobody else on our team is able to do. I can't wait for him to get posted up on every single play though. Earl Boykins could probably post this guy up.

RWB
07-19-2007, 04:06 PM
Just goes to prove how little you really know and understand sports. That could be said about 90% of this board though.

Any relation to DaSmash? ;)

Oneal07
07-19-2007, 04:07 PM
I don't understand why people think we need a "KOBE BRYANT" type player on our team. . Our team isn't really that bad!! I really thnk we felll off the charts because of Rick Carlisle, There's was no motivaton on that team

tora tora
07-19-2007, 04:10 PM
I really think we fell off the charts because of Rick Carlisle

Exactly, the Pacers will be just fine this year.

avoidingtheclowns
07-19-2007, 04:18 PM
Wow, 2 summers in a row a PD request gets honored. First UB gets Daniels and now LG gets Diener. Further proof that TPTB read PD?!?

Everyone place your orders now!

I was interested in Diener as a 2nd round pick a few drafts ago, but as our first Pg off the bench?! I have to think that Pargo or McLeod would've been better. At least he can shoot the 3.

thats two for LG33 he also called Kareem Rush... i'm honestly starting to think he may be larry bird's cabana boy


I like Travis Diener! Yeah he's undersized, but he competes! And he'll surprise just like Rush will. Plus he can shoot the 3, in J'Ob's system. He'll grow on you guys.

Diener, Diener :happydanc

i tend to subscribe to this perspective. i think pargo (given he has the added bonus of defense) would have been better but diener isn't a bad pickup.


Me, I really like Travis Deiner. Always have. I wouldn't be upset at all if he was a No. 2 PG. It's only 12-15 minutes a game, and he can put up 12-15 points in that span on a hot night. If he gets lit up defensively, put in Quis, or whoever else.

My biggest question, with Tinsley's history, is what happens when Diener is needed to start for > 10 games at a time. That worries me.

that is a big question. i'm not sure either. but larry has said he wanted 4 PGs and if we're slotting Quis as a backup PG we'll need another in there, maybe thats coming in a trade, who knows.


It somewhat reminds me of the fans throwing themselves from their high-story windows in despair after the Stanko trade on draft night. Small fry, people. Give the guy a chance; 3 years doesn't mean big money. It could be the minimum for all we know. I doubt it's a lot either way. He busts his *** off and can make 3's. You don't think Indiana fans won't love him for that?

heres the reason i hated and ranted about the stanko move: he may well be a great player one day, a diamond in the rough that we praise bird for having the vision to see the greatness waiting to blossom... but thats at least 3-4 years away from wearing a uniform. there were several players that could have helped us or had the potential to help us immediately (obviously draft picks are never sure things). but you take a guy like nichols or byars ... shooters ... they make sense. but a euro project player? that was my problem because it didn't solve an immediate need. if i felt like we were going to commit to rebuilding i would have no problem. it just seemed like an opportunity to help our team in the 'now' that was wasted.

i'm okay with this signing because it solves a big problem for us: outside shooting. if he can evolve into our very own steve kerr i would be thrilled. he's not a lockerroom problem by all accounts, he can shoot and magic fans seem to love him... like i said before, i think pargo may have made a little more sense given the defense, but i'm not unhappy with this signing at all as i can't imagine its Croshere/Murphy type money.


Let's be honest here, we're bringing in a pretty large number of white role players, compared to most teams (except the Jazz). It ain't like the Pacers acquired Steve Nash, Mike Miller, and Kirk Hinrich. We're bringing in obscure "good, wholesome white guys."

you my friend are 100% right. look at our FA signings this summer... rush, graham and owens... the only thing those three have in common? total honkeys...

Hicks
07-19-2007, 04:20 PM
Hell, even the ACTUAL all-star player we have gets *****ed about around here, so it's not surprise that the NON all-stars get eaten alive. If we don't field Magic, Jordan, Erving, Duncan, Wilt, people complain about what they can't do.

Slick Pinkham
07-19-2007, 04:21 PM
Let's be honest here, we're bringing in a pretty large number of white role players, compared to most teams (except the Jazz). It ain't like the Pacers acquired Steve Nash, Mike Miller, and Kirk Hinrich. We're bringing in obscure "good, wholesome white guys."


Wow,

Rush, Owens, and Graham must be white too, right... (oops ATC beat me to this point)

And we'd never let go of guys like Austin Croshere and Brad Miller.


Why does everything have to provoke the race card? Could it be that if Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson had white skin but were still the LIVING TUMORS that they are prone to be, they would also have been sent packing?

PaceBalls
07-19-2007, 04:29 PM
This kid doesn't sound like a milk drinker at all to me. He sounds like a hard nosed full balls type of player. An Effort player. Give me effort players over highly skilled uninterested players any time.

Have a little faith guys.

And yeah, playing the race card is stupid. People are people.

grace
07-19-2007, 04:55 PM
A little birdy with inside info just called and told me the following.

Donnie: Larry, Mel and Herb just called and told me I had to fire you.

Larry: WTF? Why? I just signed the next in the line of Great White Hopes.

Donnie: Why? You're asking me why? Obviously you haven't read the board. Look. (points out post below)


Hell, I'd MUCH rather have Travis BEST right now.

Larry: Look, it's not my fault I missed the last party. How was I supposed to know they weren't at Pizza King any more?

*********

I'd tell you more, but it got pretty nasty after that.

Tom White
07-19-2007, 04:58 PM
Diener's response:

Opie Taylor? I got your Opie....You big, bad, Gomer Pyle, droopy-eyed son of a *****.

You still throwing up bricks?

What is this? A mason's convention? I need like a welding torch to play in this league.

I got an idea...Let's stop and gather up all these bricks and build a homeless shelter. That way, maybe your mother has a place to live. And your sister, too. I want your mother and your sister out of my house immediately.


http://videodetective.com/photos/036/000153_13.jpg

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105812/

Ha! Good one. I'll tell you, I don't remember ever seeing Diener play (although probably did in the NCAA tourney), but I'd still take him over Harrelson.

Now, Rosie Perez can be on my team ANYTIME.

grace
07-19-2007, 05:00 PM
I could see where they will think he is cute.


I don't. Maybe you could explain it to me.

D-BONE
07-19-2007, 05:05 PM
Not to excited about this signing.

McLeod or Pargo were the guys I really wanted.

I really don't know that Diener is any better than Andre Owens. Seriously I wonder.

Hopefully Diener suprises us, that's all I got to say.

As much as I am not excited about this signing it isn't that bad. When you look at what we need, one of our needs is a backup point guard. Take a look at the free agent opitions and you have Pargo, McLeod, Brevin Knight, Dee Brown, Diener, Earl Boykins, Charlie Bell, Jeff McInnis, and Derek Fisher.

Bell will probably be out of our price range, Fisher wanted to go to LA or NY, McInnis seems to have an attitude problem, Knight is not a good fit, Boykins will likely want more money then we wanted to spend. Dee Brown is likely to stay in Utah and not any better then any of the guys on the list. Unproven.

That leaves you with McLeod, Pargo, and Diener. I have no idea why we wouldn't/couldn't sign either McLeod or Pargo but I guess we couldn't and that left us with Diener. Hurray.

This may not be the big change everyone is anticipating but so what quit crying about it. We signed a backup point guard which is something we needed. I'm sure if the right deal for Jermaine comes along we will make the deal so just be paitent. It's a long summer that is only about half way over. Training Camp isn't until October. We still have 2 1/2 months for something to get done.

1) Does this definitively mean we won't still try and sign McCleod or Pargo?

2) Haven't seen that much Owens lately, but I see/saw enough Deiner over the last several years to say I feel he is definitely better.

3) I would still take Pargo and I hope something else happens before camp, too!

grace
07-19-2007, 05:11 PM
I like what they're saying about him over there, especially this one poster's comments:

"That is gonna come back and bite us, but only us, on the a$$.

33 points, 10 long range bombs and 1 poster and1 on Dwight, to go with a league record 34 assists. Then averages 5 and 2 for the rest of the year."

Sounds like the guy can play! We just don't know it yet. I'm all for giving him a chance before doggin' him out. Who's with me? :D

Did you not see the one where someone said Reggie's 3pt. record was in jeopardy?

grace
07-19-2007, 05:19 PM
Oh please. We are still 10 weeks from training camp. I would think after embarrassing yourself with the Colts last year you would learn. Just goes to prove how little you really know and understand sports. That could be said about 90% of this board though.

If Shade speaking out can do for the Pacers what it did for the Colts why would any Pacers fan want to silence him?

grace
07-19-2007, 05:26 PM
To everyone who is mad that everyone else is mad about the trade I think this just shows that the Pacers are already 3 years into their rebuilding phase and fans are sick of waiting.

At the risk of making Hicks even more angry I have to admit I've never heard of Diener. After I'd read about 3 posts I thought to myself "How much do you wanna bet the guy is white?" I was right, but I guess that makes me wrong. :shrug:

Edit: If anyone cares I always like Pargo when he was with the Bulls. I was sorry to see him go.

McClintic Sphere
07-19-2007, 05:59 PM
Finally some potential.

bambam
07-19-2007, 06:05 PM
Steve Nash...

Now anyone here, when Nash was drafted and played his first 3 seasons think he was an Allstar, USA team member, and all NBA player????

ANYONE?????

Now if you said yes to all 3 of the above, you are 100% a liar. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT SOMEONE WILL TURN OUT TO BE! We can list 100s players that were bust or others that become diamond in the rough. Anyone here know for sure...i mean 110% sure this guy wont be a good back? Since no one here know for sure what kind of impact he will have, LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS!

pwee31
07-19-2007, 06:15 PM
Steve Nash...

Now anyone here, when Nash was drafted and played his first 3 seasons think he was an Allstar, USA team member, and all NBA player????

ANYONE?????

Now if you said yes to all 3 of the above, you are 100% a liar. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT SOMEONE WILL TURN OUT TO BE! We can list 100s players that were bust or others that become diamond in the rough. Anyone here know for sure...i mean 110% sure this guy wont be a good back? Since no one here know for sure what kind of impact he will have, LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS!

Amen brotha! :worship:

By the way, Magic fans are either sarcastic, or really high on Diener, a lot of them seem to be happy for him, yet upset that he's gone

Frank Slade
07-19-2007, 06:25 PM
:bananadan :fireworks: Well it ain't sexy.. but...:shrug:

Rajah Brown
07-19-2007, 06:37 PM
Up to this point , I'd have to say that elliciting 154 posts about
his aquisiton by the Pacers might well be the highlight of Diener's
NBA career !

Tom White
07-19-2007, 06:43 PM
Now anyone here, when Nash was drafted and played his first 3 seasons think he was an Allstar, USA team member, and all NBA player????

Now if you said yes to all 3 of the above, you are 100% a liar.

Nash is Canadian

317Kim
07-19-2007, 06:52 PM
Hmm. Well this is new. I really don't know who this guy is and what he's capable of. Time to do some research. :nerd:

Frank Slade
07-19-2007, 07:09 PM
Maybe I'm in the minority but I have no problem at all signing younger cheaper role players for our bench. It's not like we are throwing around mid level money around or anything near it.

Or that we had the means to make a big splash in the FA market.
It's not a make or break move, and if it works great, if it doesn't where free to make adjustments.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 07:21 PM
Tell me I didn't just see someone say Travis Diener could end up being Steve Nash...Please tell me I didn't just see that.

Hopefully Quis will back Tins allowing Diener to be a spot up shooter in late game situations. Which is where he will be most effective.

DgR
07-19-2007, 07:33 PM
I'm actualy very happy about both TD& Rush signing- I think they'll both be nice additions- especially Rush.
Assuming TD's contract isn't a bad one- he could be a real steal. I was worried at first when I saw his name and stats followed by "3 year contract"- but after thinking about it for a little bit- and knowing our FO is one of the cheapest in league- there's no way we'd sign him for a 3 year contract if he didn't have potential.
In addition, the Magic fans' responses are extremely reasuring. The last time we heard about players coming here from their former teams' fans- they were spot on (about Nurph, Dun, Ike).

I didn't like McCloud and happy we didn't resign him. To me- though he didn't make many mistakes- he wasn't real good at anything either. At least TD fits with JOB's system. He could fill a Daniel Gibson role for us am I right?

We can't expect to sign the best, most expensive FA out there- our cap situation doesn't allow it.
Up till now our FO's signs were good logical ones that fit with the teams needs- the only question is will there be a big trade or not?

btowncolt
07-19-2007, 07:35 PM
and knowing our FO is one of the cheapest in league-

Explain this to me before I react. Where do you get that from?

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 07:35 PM
Up to this point , I'd have to say that elliciting 154 posts about
his aquisiton by the Pacers might well be the highlight of Diener's
NBA career !

We're 25 posts away from having more posts in this thread than points he's scored in his career! :yay2:

JB's Breakout Year
07-19-2007, 07:37 PM
Hell, even the ACTUAL all-star player we have gets *****ed about around here, so it's not surprise that the NON all-stars get eaten alive. If we don't field Magic, Jordan, Erving, Duncan, Wilt, people complain about what they can't do.
No Frickin' Kidding.

Some people use the signing of a back-up point guard to claim that Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh are incompetent idiots.

Come on. It's one month into a 3 month off-season. Give 'em a chance. Donnie's always been good to you in the past, hasn't he?

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 07:37 PM
Explain this to me before I react. Where do you get that from?

It's like calling a recovering alcoholic "sober". They're in recovery.

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 07:40 PM
It's 3 months into a 5 month off-season.

Fixed.

And it's not like a lot of blockbuster deals wait until September.

docpaul
07-19-2007, 07:45 PM
Here's another vote for someone who saw this kid play in college and believe it'll almost be impossible for him to underwhelm this crowd. I bet he'll be received maybe the same way DA was this past year.

Someone with heart, who's excited to be out there. Will play hard. Will get scorched on occasion. Better decision maker than DA. Are you all going to tell me that DA didn't have an important role on the team this year?

Given the circumstances, this will prove to be a shrewd signing. Mark my words.

DgR
07-19-2007, 07:53 PM
Explain this to me before I react. Where do you get that from?

Our FO is not the Knicks', we usualy dont sign big contracts for no reason. And by looking at the last bunch of backup PG we signed (Greene, McCloud, even AJ) I dont think we'd sign a 3 year contract if the signing was a huge risk. DW and LB dont take many risks.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 07:55 PM
Our FO is not the Knicks', we usualy dont sign big contracts for no reason. And by looking at the last bunch of backup PG we signed (Greene, McCloud, even AJ) I dont think we'd sign a 3 year contract if the signing was a huge risk. DW and LB dont take many risks.

Few teams sign big contracts for no reason, a lot of people acquire big contracts for no reason and we do that all the time. Dun, Murphy, Al, Jack, gave Tins a pretty nice deal. Our front office does not penny pinch.

btowncolt
07-19-2007, 07:59 PM
Our FO is not the Knicks', we usualy dont sign big contracts for no reason. And by looking at the last bunch of backup PG we signed (Greene, McCloud, even AJ) I dont think we'd sign a 3 year contract if the signing was a huge risk. DW and LB dont take many risks.

Okay, but calling them "cheap" can have a different connotation. The Pacers have consistently had one of the highest payrolls in the league, they have one of the highest paid front offices, they have one of the most extensive and expensive scouting and coaching staffs on a year-to-year basis, and have never hesitated to hand out a big contract or put themselves in a position to pay the luxury tax with a competitive roster. So calling them "cheap" in that sense isn't accurate or fair.

JB's Breakout Year
07-19-2007, 08:04 PM
Fixed.

And it's not like a lot of blockbuster deals wait until September.
:rolleyes: The offseason for the NBA starts with the draft and the start of free agency. That puts us about a month into it.

We didn't have a draft pick, and there weren't even 5 players on the free agent list I would have wanted on the Pacers. What exactly would you have wanted the Pacers to have done by now?

If you want to still ***** about trading the draft pick or the GS trade, keep crying over that spilled milk. Or move on and enjoy the potential of the future and the young players we have. Whichever.

DgR
07-19-2007, 08:05 PM
Okay, but calling them "cheap" can have a different connotation. The Pacers have consistently had one of the highest payrolls in the league, they have one of the highest paid front offices, they have one of the most extensive and expensive scouting and coaching staffs on a year-to-year basis, and have never hesitated to hand out a big contract or put themselves in a position to pay the luxury tax with a competitive roster. So calling them "cheap" in that sense isn't accurate or fair.

I'm not bashing the FO. I dread the day DW retires and very pleased with the fact they dont usualy make rash decisions. DW has done an outstanding job- for the most part- for the the last 20 years.

Tom White
07-19-2007, 08:10 PM
Someone with heart, who's excited to be out there. Will play hard. Will get scorched on occasion.

Earlier, someone mentioned Suhr (from IU). That was a kid who did not have the most talent in the world, was originally a walk-on, and became the crowd's favorite player. Man, the way Assembly Hall would go nuts when he was in the game was something.

Anyway, my point is, from what I'm reading the Pacers may have found their version of Suhr. A guy the whole fieldhouse wants to cheer for. It has been a while since the team had "the underdog that EVERYONE roots for" kind of guy. Heck I don't really remember who the last one might have been.

Any thoughts?

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 08:11 PM
I'd say Baby Al back before we traded Jalen.

DgR
07-19-2007, 08:16 PM
Few teams sign big contracts for no reason, a lot of people acquire big contracts for no reason and we do that all the time. Dun, Murphy, Al, Jack, gave Tins a pretty nice deal. Our front office does not penny pinch.

I never take the GS trade as an example of anything but our FO surrendering to local fans' pressure. That trade was forced and is very unlike DW to make. I disagree that we take on these huge contracts all the time.

DW would never give Rashard Lewis the contract he got from the Magic, not in a thousand years

GrangerRanger
07-19-2007, 08:17 PM
Cham-Ion-Ship!

Tom White
07-19-2007, 08:19 PM
I'd say Baby Al back before we traded Jalen.

That is probably as close as we can get in semi-recent history. Very popular when he first came here. Even though he was a first round pick that you would not think of as an underdog type, he was still one of the high schoolers, so maybe that counts.

Aw Heck
07-19-2007, 08:20 PM
My expectations are low for him. But I'm gonna root for him to do well anyway. Because he's an underdog, dammit. And he's a Pacer, of course.

So in the tradition of the Peanut Butter and James Jones bandwagons, I'm now a member of the Dienermobile.

Jose Slaughter
07-19-2007, 08:22 PM
I think its a good signing.

From what I know of the guy, he seems like a gym rat that leaves it on the floor each night. Adding that he has range & ends Armstrong's days here, whats not to like?

Tom White
07-19-2007, 08:43 PM
DW would never give Rashard Lewis the contract he got from the Magic, not in a thousand years

That is because he wouldn't have the capspace after signing Croshere and Bender.

317Kim
07-19-2007, 08:45 PM
So, I've read through this thread and looked at a couple of his Draft Prosepect Profiles along with his NBA.com profile and I guess he's okay.

He's got fire, but lacks size and some defensive skills. He competes, but how much will he get. I'll admit, I'm a bit disappointed with the 3 yr contract, but at least I'm not surprised.

Welcome, Travis. What number are you going to be?

JB's Breakout Year
07-19-2007, 08:49 PM
Another overlooked plus to this deal is that it gives Slick the opportunity to say "Atta way, 'Travi-Baby'!" again. Just like with that other Travis from the '90's. That's something that's been missing from this team.

indygeezer
07-19-2007, 08:49 PM
So, I've read through this thread and looked at a couple of his Draft Prosepect Profiles along with his NBA.com profile and I guess he's okay.

He's got fire, but lacks size and some defensive skills. He competes, but how much will he get. I'll admit, I'm a bit disappointed with the 3 yr contract, but at least I'm not surprised.

Welcome, Travis. What number are you going to be?

3? Get it? Travis....3



nevermind

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 08:54 PM
Little article on Travis Diener in Orlando summer league last summer, perhaps a reason to have tiny optomism.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2518659

Dave, I found this article in my searching, and you left out one of the notes at the bottom:


It's no coincidence that many of Morrison's moves and mannerisms on the basketball court closely resemble those of basketball legend Larry Bird. The Charlotte Bobcats (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha) rookie freely admits that he's studied hours of tape of Bird's games, copying everything from his high-arcing shooting form to his wispy mustache and bushy haircut.

"He's the greatest player ever in my mind and I just liked how he played and how hard he played,'' said Morrison, who had 31 points on 10 of 21 shooting Thursday in Charlotte's 94-87 loss to New Jersey. "He revolutionized the game as far as coming off screens. So, yeah, I've tried to emulate him just because I have a similar body type. I'm not the most athletic person on the planet, and neither was he. I'm certainly not him, but we're both effective at that style.''

Bird, the Indiana Pacers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind) president, has been on hand for most of Morrison's performances in this week's summer league, watching the rookie average 24 points a night through four games. Bird was flattered that Morrison has patterned his game after him, and he has some lofty praise for the 6-foot-8 small forward.

"I've heard [Morrison's emulated me], but I just think he has his own style,'' Bird said. "He'll probably win Rookie of the Year with the talent that he has.

"He's been doing this for years, so it shouldn't be any surprise to anybody the way he's playing. He can score in so many ways.''

:blush:

SoupIsGood
07-19-2007, 09:16 PM
I am going to join you aboard the Dienermobile. Just holla if that ain't OK.

kybjones
07-19-2007, 09:20 PM
I love the fact that we've been throwing out 3 year deals to so many guys taking up spots 10-15 during the Bird Era.

You gotta love the direction Larry Bird is taking this franchise.

tadscout
07-19-2007, 09:23 PM
I am going to join you aboard the Dienermobile. Just holla if that ain't OK.

Me too! :happydanc

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 09:38 PM
We're 25 posts away from having more posts in this thread than points he's scored in his career! :yay2:

It's official! We now have more posts in this thread than Travis has points in his career!

:fireworks :dance::dance::dance::fireworks

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 09:44 PM
I'm now a member of the Dienermobile.

Shotgun!

DisplacedKnick
07-19-2007, 10:09 PM
This is a fun thread. I haven't - and may never - figure out why the Pacers signed him to a 3-year deal. Sure, it's probably for the minimum but it IS taking up a roster spot for 3 years. One year? Fine - he can be 12th man. But 3?

And the fact that the Pacers have to sign Travis Diener as their backup PG is a testament to just how screwed up their salary situation is.

Oh well - maybe he'll be better than the NBA nobody he's been for his first 2 seasons. And I'm happy to contribute to what seems destined to be a 200-reply thread.

DisplacedKnick
07-19-2007, 10:10 PM
It's official! We now have more posts in this thread than Travis has points in his career!

:fireworks :dance::dance::dance::fireworks

Does he have a Myspace page or a blog or something?

Someone should send him this link.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 10:16 PM
This is a fun thread. I haven't - and may never - figure out why the Pacers signed him to a 3-year deal. Sure, it's probably for the minimum but it IS taking up a roster spot for 3 years. One year? Fine - he can be 12th man. But 3?.

Understandable. And I'm not sure why they would do three either. Maybe they got him to take a little less by tacking on a third year. Could very well be team options involved also. But regardless, the money is going to be so small that be a thrown-in on any trade, even if it's three years guarenteed.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 10:24 PM
Does he have a Myspace page or a blog or something?

Someone should send him this link.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=36043569

Looks like we have some of the same friends.

pwee31
07-19-2007, 10:25 PM
Shotgun!

Not :censored: (the B word) :laugh:

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 10:55 PM
I never take the GS trade as an example of anything but our FO surrendering to local fans' pressure. That trade was forced and is very unlike DW to make. I disagree that we take on these huge contracts all the time.

DW would never give Rashard Lewis the contract he got from the Magic, not in a thousand years

Thats a tough call to make IMO. We haven't had enough oppurtunities to hand out max contracts players. We have had two times in the past ten years where DW had the cap space and a player he felt deserved the max. He gave it to Rose and JO. I would argue that Lewis is just as good as Rose was when he received his max deal.

Evan_The_Dude
07-19-2007, 10:58 PM
If it makes anybody feel better, the Pistons built a championship team with players that didn't do well, or fit well in their previous stops. Ok, so that didn't make anybody feel better.... I'll go back to lurking now...

wintermute
07-19-2007, 10:58 PM
you think this thread is long? you ought to check out the diener bandwagon thread in the realgm magic forum... :D


Maybe I'm in the minority but I have no problem at all signing younger cheaper role players for our bench. It's not like we are throwing around mid level money around or anything near it.

Or that we had the means to make a big splash in the FA market.
It's not a make or break move, and if it works great, if it doesn't where free to make adjustments.

yup

really, it's just that us fans are all wound up waiting for the "big move". that's why stanko, rush, and now diener tend to get blown out of proportion.

JayRedd
07-19-2007, 11:00 PM
that's why stanko, rush, and now diener tend to get blown out of proportion.

Forgot about Stanko for a minute. He's gonna love this move.

D-BONE
07-19-2007, 11:00 PM
Here's another vote for someone who saw this kid play in college and believe it'll almost be impossible for him to underwhelm this crowd. I bet he'll be received maybe the same way DA was this past year.

Someone with heart, who's excited to be out there. Will play hard. Will get scorched on occasion. Better decision maker than DA. Are you all going to tell me that DA didn't have an important role on the team this year?

Given the circumstances, this will prove to be a shrewd signing. Mark my words.

As far as DA, what exactly is gonna happen with him as far as next year?

As far as TD, I tend to agree with you. I'm not ready to GUARANTEE anything but I think the potential is there (and cheaply) for him to establish himself as an overachieving, successful bench player. Perhaps even become a legit back up.

I'm positive about the Rush signing to. But with both guys only so far is that is about what I'd expect us to do in the FA market. Any "seismic" changes to the roster would undoubtedly be via a trade. Any truly difference making moves most certainly would be via trade.

Adding these two doesn't significantly alter my opinion that this is an approximately .500 team best case barring something unexpected in player development.

Trader Joe
07-19-2007, 11:04 PM
you think this thread is long? you ought to check out the diener bandwagon thread in the realgm magic forum... :D



yup

really, it's just that us fans are all wound up waiting for the "big move". that's why stanko, rush, and now diener tend to get blown out of proportion.

Don't throw Stanko in with Rush and Diener. Stanko will be the face of this franchise for years to come and Oden will cower before him.

PR07
07-19-2007, 11:36 PM
This is a good signing. Diener is a good shooter, and we'll stretch the D. If Harter can hide Mark Jackson on D, he can hide Diener too. Looks like he has a high bball IQ too.

Big Smooth
07-19-2007, 11:50 PM
Assuming that they threw peanuts at him for salary (pretty safe assumption) then I don't really have any negative opinion. Hey either the kid can contribute on the court or he is a glorified towel boy. I did watch some Marquette games when Diener played there but that tells me jack about his NBA potential. He can shoot, that is one thing we all know.

It's a long hot offseason. :D

Anthem
07-20-2007, 12:19 AM
The issue isn't that anybody hates Travis.

The issue is that TPTB are spending time going after 3rd-stringers when they should be fixing our problems with the starting lineup.

We have the worst starting backcourt in the league, bar none. And your big summer moves are Travis Diener and Kareem Rush?

Infinite MAN_force
07-20-2007, 12:36 AM
Man, a lot of the typical knee jerk reactions here. Any non-blockbuster move the pacers make pretty much brings about this huge outpouring of disgust and criticism. It has become a very predictable pattern.

Jim Obrien?
Kareem Rush?
Travis Deiner?

ARE YOU KIDDING???????!!!!111!!1!

Given our financial situation, Im very glad that we are not out there trying to overpay players just because they have name recognition. No reason to end up with another Troy Murphy. Guys like kapono wouldent be worth what they were asking for IMO.

Truth is we really dont have the financial means to make any big signings or anything anyway... so what do you people really expect? The only big change we will see this summer will be if Jo gets traded...

Funny thing is after people actually did a little research about Obrien they realized it was probably a smart hire. And now what has management done? Started getting players that made sense for Obrien's system... on the cheap no less. Based on what Im hearing, especially from the magic's board, this deiner kid may just be waiting for his shot. He doesent even have to log a lot of minutes at the point if JT and marquis handle the majority of it. But if he can come off the bench and hit some big threes that can be a huge benifit, then you sit him before he becomes a defensive liability... As much as you guys complain about lack of direction, these moves seem to make a lot of sense. At least to me.

Of course I dont think our standing team is nearly as untalented as some people think. In fact a new coaching system is exactly what we needed IMO, and if we actually get some decent outside shooting, our post player (be he JO or bynum) should be a lot more effective. Then if Dick Harter fixes the defense, Tinsley responds well to obrien and puts up numbers like his rookie year..... who knows??? Reading that article about the celtics gave me some hope. Its all in the realm of possibility. (yea yeah, call me a sunshiner, I dont care)

PS: ill almost put money on Kareem Rush being our starting sg by midseason, im not saying he will be an allstar or anything... but seriously, if obrien wants guys who can drain threes out there... he wont be starting quis or Dunleavy, at least not in that position.

circlecitysportsfan
07-20-2007, 01:15 AM
People are expecting something big to happen, but it won't. With our cap situation we are not going to make any big moves. IMO I wish the Pacers could just fast forward to the 08, 09, 10, drafts. As far as Diener, Damon Bailey/Fred Hoiberg jr. Irrevelant.

Young
07-20-2007, 02:09 AM
Here is a question to ponder.

Are we done with our point guard situation? Atleast the backups? Do we go into next year with Tinsley/Diener/Armstrong/Owens?

I think the question is, how much confidence do we have in Diener? Do we want to go into the season with him as our number one backup? Or do we go out and get a more proven point guard, rumor has us talking to the Rockets about Rafer Alston. Whether that is true or not I don't know.

rexnom
07-20-2007, 02:21 AM
The issue isn't that anybody hates Travis.

The issue is that TPTB are spending time going after 3rd-stringers when they should be fixing our problems with the starting lineup.

We have the worst starting backcourt in the league, bar none. And your big summer moves are Travis Diener and Kareem Rush?
This is exactly the point. Just like most of had no problem with the GS trade as long as the trade was followed by a trade to improve our back court. It wasn't. And I'm really worried that TPTB are just going to sit around and wait too long for an improvement opportunity to just show up. I actually really like the Kareem Rush signing and I think adding Travis Diener won't hurt. Also, I can be swayed that Jamaal will be our starting point next year. Still, we have NO starting SG and four guys (Danny, Shawne, MDJ, and Quis) that should be getting starters' minutes at the 3 either next season or in the future. Our front office just shows no foresight in their work and frankly, it's borderline disgusting at this point.

And I'm sorry, but when you have, literally, the worst backcourt in the NBA, your fanbase gets to panic when you don't make many moves to improve it (even in July).

CableKC
07-20-2007, 02:38 AM
Man, a lot of the typical knee jerk reactions here. Any non-blockbuster move the pacers make pretty much brings about this huge outpouring of disgust and criticism. It has become a very predictable pattern.

Jim Obrien?
Kareem Rush?
Travis Deiner?

ARE YOU KIDDING???????!!!!111!!1!

Given our financial situation, Im very glad that we are not out there trying to overpay players just because they have name recognition. No reason to end up with another Troy Murphy. Guys like kapono wouldent be worth what they were asking for IMO.

Truth is we really dont have the financial means to make any big signings or anything anyway... so what do you people really expect? The only big change we will see this summer will be if Jo gets traded...

Funny thing is after people actually did a little research about Obrien they realized it was probably a smart hire. And now what has management done? Started getting players that made sense for Obrien's system... on the cheap no less. Based on what Im hearing, especially from the magic's board, this deiner kid may just be waiting for his shot. He doesent even have to log a lot of minutes at the point if JT and marquis handle the majority of it. But if he can come off the bench and hit some big threes that can be a huge benifit, then you sit him before he becomes a defensive liability... As much as you guys complain about lack of direction, these moves seem to make a lot of sense. At least to me.

Of course I dont think our standing team is nearly as untalented as some people think. In fact a new coaching system is exactly what we needed IMO, and if we actually get some decent outside shooting, our post player (be he JO or bynum) should be a lot more effective. Then if Dick Harter fixes the defense, Tinsley responds well to obrien and puts up numbers like his rookie year..... who knows??? Reading that article about the celtics gave me some hope. Its all in the realm of possibility. (yea yeah, call me a sunshiner, I dont care)

PS: ill almost put money on Kareem Rush being our starting sg by midseason, im not saying he will be an allstar or anything... but seriously, if obrien wants guys who can drain threes out there... he wont be starting quis or Dunleavy, at least not in that position.
I agree with you on this. Given the limits that we have right now....what else can we expect?

I don't expect TPTB to go over the Luxury tax threshold to get a Free Agent....realistically no other GM wants to do that either.

Signing backup players that will more then likely serve as role players ( which I think Deiner fits that role....not as the 1st PG off the bench but as a 4th/5th Guard off the bench ) is what I expect given our situation right now ( being so close to the luxury tax ).

Any major player that we acquire in this offseason will be in through a trade that involves JONeal or packaging Granger and/or Foster with Tinsley for players that may address any issues we have.

Pacemaker
07-20-2007, 02:56 AM
Man, a lot of the typical knee jerk reactions here. Any non-blockbuster move the pacers make pretty much brings about this huge outpouring of disgust and criticism. It has become a very predictable pattern.

Jim Obrien?
Kareem Rush?
Travis Deiner?

ARE YOU KIDDING???????!!!!111!!1!

Given our financial situation, Im very glad that we are not out there trying to overpay players just because they have name recognition. No reason to end up with another Troy Murphy. Guys like kapono wouldent be worth what they were asking for IMO.

Truth is we really dont have the financial means to make any big signings or anything anyway... so what do you people really expect? The only big change we will see this summer will be if Jo gets traded...

Funny thing is after people actually did a little research about Obrien they realized it was probably a smart hire. And now what has management done? Started getting players that made sense for Obrien's system... on the cheap no less. Based on what Im hearing, especially from the magic's board, this deiner kid may just be waiting for his shot. He doesent even have to log a lot of minutes at the point if JT and marquis handle the majority of it. But if he can come off the bench and hit some big threes that can be a huge benifit, then you sit him before he becomes a defensive liability... As much as you guys complain about lack of direction, these moves seem to make a lot of sense. At least to me.

Of course I dont think our standing team is nearly as untalented as some people think. In fact a new coaching system is exactly what we needed IMO, and if we actually get some decent outside shooting, our post player (be he JO or bynum) should be a lot more effective. Then if Dick Harter fixes the defense, Tinsley responds well to obrien and puts up numbers like his rookie year..... who knows??? Reading that article about the celtics gave me some hope. Its all in the realm of possibility. (yea yeah, call me a sunshiner, I dont care)

PS: ill almost put money on Kareem Rush being our starting sg by midseason, im not saying he will be an allstar or anything... but seriously, if obrien wants guys who can drain threes out there... he wont be starting quis or Dunleavy, at least not in that position.


I'm with you bro!!

Skaut_Ech
07-20-2007, 07:40 AM
I think the grumblings you hear are the sounds of entitlement. I think a lot of fans on here thinks they've been hosed the past two seasons an d want some kind of blockbuster, supa-star trade to give them the warm and fuzzies.

I like this move.

Honest.

I've made mention time and again how some players get caught up in the numbers game-too many guys at their position. JO was a glaring example of this. I know Travis is being projected as a 3rd or 4th string guy on here, but I think there can be more to him. What I really like is his rep of being a very hard worker and a smart player. THAT'S what makes a solid team. So he's a role player. Role players are what helps make the great teams a notch better than the other guys.

Now maybe I'm too well entrenched into my new found sunshine mold, but I'm hoping that we are thinking down the road that we made get that supa strong PG, where Diener is a nie compliment/changeup to him.

Maybe he IS a Steve Kerr/ Luke Ridnour/whomever type, but if we can land a strong inside power game, I think that really plays to his skills.

I'm gonna wait and see before I pass any kind of judgement, but to borrow the Larry Brown phrase, Travis plays the game "the right way' and that goes a long way with me.

Unclebuck
07-20-2007, 08:25 AM
I'm not expecting Tinsley to be on the roster next season. Sometimes you have to have faith and in this I do

owl
07-20-2007, 09:40 AM
I'm always amused how so many of you are so quick to ridicule the Pacers for signing this guy (almost reminds me of when the Pacers signed Anthony Johnson several years ago - most of you thought he was horrible)

I know nothing about Travis Diener , for all I know he'll beat out Tinsley or he might get cut the first day of training camp - I just don't know.

However, I remember last year a few experts I respect were pretty high on this guy. He had for awhile beaten out Arrojo for the backup, but then Ithink he got injured and never played much.

So I really have no idea if this guy is any good or not, but I'm willing to wait and see before I ridicule the signing

Wurd!!

DgR
07-20-2007, 10:04 AM
Man, a lot of the typical knee jerk reactions here. Any non-blockbuster move the pacers make pretty much brings about this huge outpouring of disgust and criticism. It has become a very predictable pattern.

Jim Obrien?
Kareem Rush?
Travis Deiner?

ARE YOU KIDDING???????!!!!111!!1!

Given our financial situation, Im very glad that we are not out there trying to overpay players just because they have name recognition. No reason to end up with another Troy Murphy. Guys like kapono wouldent be worth what they were asking for IMO.

Truth is we really dont have the financial means to make any big signings or anything anyway... so what do you people really expect? The only big change we will see this summer will be if Jo gets traded...

Funny thing is after people actually did a little research about Obrien they realized it was probably a smart hire. And now what has management done? Started getting players that made sense for Obrien's system... on the cheap no less. Based on what Im hearing, especially from the magic's board, this deiner kid may just be waiting for his shot. He doesent even have to log a lot of minutes at the point if JT and marquis handle the majority of it. But if he can come off the bench and hit some big threes that can be a huge benifit, then you sit him before he becomes a defensive liability... As much as you guys complain about lack of direction, these moves seem to make a lot of sense. At least to me.

Of course I dont think our standing team is nearly as untalented as some people think. In fact a new coaching system is exactly what we needed IMO, and if we actually get some decent outside shooting, our post player (be he JO or bynum) should be a lot more effective. Then if Dick Harter fixes the defense, Tinsley responds well to obrien and puts up numbers like his rookie year..... who knows??? Reading that article about the celtics gave me some hope. Its all in the realm of possibility. (yea yeah, call me a sunshiner, I dont care)

PS: ill almost put money on Kareem Rush being our starting sg by midseason, im not saying he will be an allstar or anything... but seriously, if obrien wants guys who can drain threes out there... he wont be starting quis or Dunleavy, at least not in that position.

Spot on!

What did we expect to get in the FA market. Our cap situation wont allow anything much bigger. It's not like we traded Ike for Diener. Give the FO some time to fox the SF log jam. If by the end of the summer the team is still unbalanced- then its time to critisize. Be thankful they're not jumping on the very first deal offered to them

DisplacedKnick
07-20-2007, 10:12 AM
Signing Diener isn't a bad move. Signing Rush isn't a bad move.

The bad moves were all those that put you in a position where due to salary restrictions you have to address finding a shooter and the backup PG position by signing Kareem Rush and Travis Diener.

Maybe they'll work out but there's nobody who can call them dependable, veteran, etc, etc.

So I think these moves provide plenty of ammo to bash the brain trust - and it isn't because of what they've done the last three weeks - it's what they've done the last three years that force you to make these type of transactions.

Skaut_Ech
07-20-2007, 10:27 AM
Let me just add this (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070715/SPORTS04/707150391/1247/SPORTS).

Combined with us getting a cost effective (so it appears) PG who is a strong 3 point shooter strikes me as a good step in the right direction, although you make a pretty good point DK. I want every step we make to be a step forward, not inertia and Rsuh and Diener sounds good, not great to me.

Slick Pinkham
07-20-2007, 10:37 AM
Maybe I'm old, but this is the guy that Deiner reminds me of:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sichtje01.html

Travis has a better outside shot and is more energetic. Both are small, very light, non-physical, smart players. Jerry was a valuable asset as a backup for a number of years.

:twocents:

Naptown_Seth
07-20-2007, 10:50 AM
Maybe I'm old, but this is the guy that Deiner reminds me of:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sichtje01.html

Travis has a better outside shot and is more energetic. Both are small, very light, non-physical, smart players. Jerry was a valuable asset as a backup for a number of years.

:twocents:
But he also played in an era where players were less physical and bulked up.

I'm with Shade, so far they are tweeking a team that played at a 25 win pace for the final 3 months. Maybe this is a case where it looks worse on paper than it really is, but if you don't think it looks bad on paper then you are in total denial.


There isn't a logical reason to expect this team to be very good at this point. There's hope, faith and sunshine, but not logic.

Frankly this is what standing pat looks like. So far it's been the off-season I expected. Of course there is still a chance that a JO deal will happen (which will only make the team worse in the immediate future) and the rumored Houston deal for Alston (which only helps slightly).

Honestly I don't know what possible deal could make this team better than a 30 win team next year, again on paper. I've pinned my hopes to JOB sparking them somehow, getting defense out of Troy, Dun, Tins, etc and Dun finding new life to his outside game. Oh, and Rush holding a 38% from 3 for the full year at 25 mpg.


UB, he's a point guard and he can't defend my shoe. That's all you'll need to know about him.
Yes, but you wear Adidas; from Hollis, Queens.

Your Adidas and you do the illest things.
You like to stomp out pimps with diamond rings.
You slay all suckers who perpetrate, and lay down law from state to state.
You travel on gravel, dirt road or street.
You wear your Adidas when you rock the beat.
On stage, front page, every show you go
It's Adidas on your feet, high top or low.
Your Adidas.



Just saying they're good shoes is all. They're pretty tough to defend.

Skaut_Ech
07-20-2007, 10:51 AM
Hmm...interesting analogy. I like it. I always love when we pull out the old school players. Damn, now I angry I didn't think of him.

JayRedd
07-20-2007, 11:35 AM
Honestly I don't know what possible deal could make this team better than a 30 win team next year, again on paper. I've pinned my hopes to JOB sparking them somehow, getting defense out of Troy, Dun, Tins, etc and Dun finding new life to his outside game. Oh, and Rush holding a 38% from 3 for the full year at 25 mpg.

I'm not resigned to the only 30-win part (although, it's definitely probable), but I agree that it would take some very, very good GM work to get us anywhere past First Round fodder.

That's why I can't say I'm too, too upset about our lack of significant moves. Of course it's frustrating to not see us do anything to really improve so far this summer, but on the other hand, there's not really a MLE-type talent that's gonna do much for us immediately. And in this summer's market, everyone's overpaying. Last thing we need is another marginally overpaid role player on a roster full of role players. It aint like there has been anyone available and attainable that is gonna lift us up to the next level.

So, while I still think JO is gonna get moved, I'm cool with these guys just sitting back for now a little bit and waiting for the right move instread of making the reactionary, please-the-fanbase "right now" move.


Just saying they're good shoes is all. They're pretty tough to defend.

Tougher than Leather

DisplacedKnick
07-20-2007, 01:27 PM
Honestly I don't know what possible deal could make this team better than a 30 win team next year, again on paper. I've pinned my hopes to JOB sparking them somehow, getting defense out of Troy, Dun, Tins, etc and Dun finding new life to his outside game. Oh, and Rush holding a 38% from 3 for the full year at 25 mpg.


If you go .500 this year JOB should get COY votes.

Could happen - he's a very solid coach and you have more talent than Orlando did the year Doc Rivers got them to 41-41.

That doesn't mean you have a LOT of talent though.

denyfizle
07-20-2007, 03:31 PM
Well, I guess this move will only make sense if there is another BIG move waiting in the balance. Maybe we're getting a quality PG for JO or something.... I really hope we could make a run at Alston or Head. Alston will fit perfectly in JOB's system. We can only hope TPTB have a plan.

pwee31
07-20-2007, 03:42 PM
Well, I guess this move will only make sense if there is another BIG move waiting in the balance. Maybe we're getting a quality PG for JO or something.... I really hope we could make a run at Alston or Head. Alston will fit perfectly in JOB's system. We can only hope TPTB have a plan.

It's funny you would mention that b/c I saw where a Rocket fan was on the ESPN boards yesterday, saying that the Rockets and Pacers are having trade discussions. Didn't say who was involved though

Tom White
07-20-2007, 03:55 PM
I always had the impression that Alston could be a bit of a head case and/or playground sort of guy. I'm not sure just where that impression came from. Am I wrong about him?

DisplacedKnick
07-20-2007, 04:00 PM
I always had the impression that Alston could be a bit of a head case and/or playground sort of guy. I'm not sure just where that impression came from. Am I wrong about him?

That was true 2-3 years ago but he seems to have straightened up his act.

CableKC
07-20-2007, 04:38 PM
Can someone give me the lowdown on this Alston trade rumor with the Rockets?

For some reason....this morning.....it just dawned on me that a player like Alston may fit into JO'Bs system then Tinsley.

But if Alston comes to Indy....what about Tinsley?

Kegboy
07-20-2007, 04:47 PM
It's in the Francis to Houston thread. Radio rumors, and the supposition is we'd trade Jeff for him.

Naptown_Seth
07-21-2007, 09:19 PM
If you go .500 this year JOB should get COY votes.

Could happen - he's a very solid coach and you have more talent than Orlando did the year Doc Rivers got them to 41-41.

That doesn't mean you have a LOT of talent though.
Barring any serious roster change beyond this point I'll march around the circle holding up a JOB for COY sign if this team finishes .500. Seriously, I'll be happy to do it.

pwee31
07-21-2007, 09:58 PM
Barring any serious roster change beyond this point I'll march around the circle holding up a JOB for COY sign if this team finishes .500. Seriously, I'll be happy to do it.

Get your poster board ready

Kegboy
07-22-2007, 11:17 AM
Barring any serious roster change beyond this point I'll march around the circle holding up a JOB for COY sign if this team finishes .500. Seriously, I'll be happy to do it.

And people would ask themselves, "Does he mean he'll work for fish? Somebody should tell him he spelled koi wrong."

Naptown_Seth
07-23-2007, 01:28 PM
Maybe I should take a bucket just in case they start tossing coins my way. This could end up as a win-win for me.

blanket
07-23-2007, 05:05 PM
It's official now:

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/diener_signs_070723.html

PACERS SIGN TRAVIS DIENER


INDIANAPOLIS, July 23, 2007 – The Indiana Pacers announced Monday they have signed free agent Travis Diener. Per team policy, terms of the contract were not revealed.
Diener, a 6-1, 175-pound guard, spent the past two seasons with the Orlando Magic. In two years with the Magic, Diener averaged 3.8 points and 1.0 assists in 10.9 minutes per game; and shot 63-149 (.423) from the field and 43-107 (.402) from the 3-pt line. He was drafted by the Magic in the second round (38th overall pick) of the 2005 NBA Draft.

Diener played in 120 career games over four seasons at Marquette University, averaging 14.1 points, 5.1 assists, 3.1 rebounds and 1.32 steals per game. He finished as Marquette’s career leader in 3-pt field goals made (284), second in assists (617), third in scoring (1,691) and eighth in steals (158). He was also named to the All-Conference USA First Team twice (2003-04, 2004-05), the All-Conference Second Team once (2002-03) and to the league’s All-Freshman Team (2001-02).

LoneGranger33
07-29-2007, 07:42 PM
:fireworks TRAVIS DIENER! :fireworks


:applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud:


:jump: :jump:


:2tup: :2tup: :2tup: :2tup: :2tup: :2tup:





:thisisfun:


:woot2: :thankyou:

(why does all the good stuff always happen when I'm away)

GrangerRanger
07-29-2007, 08:02 PM
Lol, I was wondering where you were. I thought you be the on to make this thread.

immortality
07-29-2007, 08:27 PM
Travis Diener — Indiana

This guy's in the league strictly because of his ability to drain 3-pointers. Period. A quasi-useful zone-buster.Grade: D+

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7068746

Charley Rosen ^ ^


HEHEHEHE....Larry Birds Shooter and Point Guard, all in one package :dance:

Hicks
07-29-2007, 10:48 PM
Rosen likes Diener about as much as he usually likes 90% of our roster.

Kegboy
07-30-2007, 10:30 AM
That's actually the nicest thing I've ever seeen Rosen say about anybody not named Phil Jackson.

Good to have you back LG. We need some laughs around here.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 10:53 AM
:fireworks TRAVIS

(why does all the good stuff always happen when I'm away)


Don't worry...pwee has been holding onto the keys to the Dienermobile until you got back. He even left you plenty of gas.

AB1077
07-30-2007, 11:38 AM
Barring any serious roster change beyond this point I'll march around the circle holding up a JOB for COY sign if this team finishes .500. Seriously, I'll be happy to do it.

I will hold you to that...You also have to buy a round in BLR though!;)

LoneGranger33
07-30-2007, 11:54 AM
And people would ask themselves, "Does he mean he'll work for fish? Somebody should tell him he spelled koi wrong."

:laugh: Nice one.






Don't worry...pwee has been holding onto the keys to the Dienermobile until you got back. He even left you plenty of gas.


Unfortunately, I don't have a license to operate such a vehicle. Also, the Dienermobile runs on eco-friendly solar energy. Night games will be a problem.

For serious, this signing may be the deciding factor as to whether or not I get League Pass (I didn't get a birthday present from my parents a couple years back, and I've been holding off for something good).

Wu-Gambino
07-30-2007, 12:24 PM
I typed in "Diener" on wikipedia. It turns out Diener is actually German for "servant". This is an actual quote from wikipedia:

In English, it is used to describe the person, in the morgue, responsible for handling, moving, and cleaning the corpse. It is derived from the German word Leichendiener, which literally means corpse servant.
Is this a good or a bad thing? What if it means our team is DOA?

Naptown_Seth
07-30-2007, 12:52 PM
Rosen likes Diener about as much as he usually likes 90% of our roster.
Well considering the 35 wins and the 11-26 finish why should he be bullish on this group of players? Honestly his Diener evaluation is in line with the kind of comments you'd get for anyone in the long stream of players just like him that hang around the fringe of the NBA with their shooting touch.

Think about this, Shawne Williams has seen as much NBA on-court time as Diener has at this point, and last year Shawne shot the 3 better and as many times as Diener.

This is the magic PG fix? Not unless Shawne is also ready to start and pull in 8 rebounds per game while continuing his own 36% from 3 rate, and as bullish as I am on Shawne I don't think that's realistic at all. I wouldn't fault Rosen for not raving on #4 at all at this point.

I will give you this, Diener is better than Eddie Gill for certain, and unlike Army his 3pt ability and selection is solid. His 3PA could easily rise to 3 a game under JOB and that will make him a marginally productive bench player. There's nothing wrong with having modest expectations from players who've shown no signs of having more than that up to this point.



I will hold you to that...You also have to buy a round in BLR though!;)
I think the BLR drinking is going to have to occur first. Also I will need a driver to keep the car running so I can break out when the cops come to put me in the drunk tank. I ain't going back to jail for no one. ;)

denyfizle
07-30-2007, 06:19 PM
Not too long ago I used to enjoy scanning through other forums of weaker NFL and NBA teams and diabolically found amusement every time posters on those forums rave about or even just waste their uneventful existence on signing insignificant players to their insignificant teams. I'm afraid karma is catching up to me now.

JayRedd
07-30-2007, 10:12 PM
Not too long ago I used to enjoy scanning through other forums of weaker NFL and NBA teams and diabolically found amusement every time posters on those forums rave about or even just waste their uneventful existence on signing insignificant players to their insignificant teams. I'm afraid karma is catching up to me now.

Are you trying to tell me that you don't think signing the Travis Diener was worth 242 posts?

Blasphemy.