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View Full Version : Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded



LAKERERIC
07-15-2007, 11:57 AM
I don't see it any other way. The other reason the deal may not have gone down is Cook's contract. He now makes right at 3 million for the next 3 years, which is nothing brutal. That just went into play on July 11th. Kwame is still in the deal, as is Bynum. JC could have been added to any deal, but not from a contractual standpoint until 30 days after he signed, which I believe will be Aug. 2. The Lakers did sign him very quickly, by the way, after Kupchak went on to say that he is talented but rookies picked below 15 rarely do much in their first year. Now, the deal either awaits until it can be completed or is not going to happen at all. The Lakers also signed Fisher, and they do have Farmar. Maybe the Lakers see JC as a guy who can play 1 and 2, and they think Bynum is coming into his own, and they refuse the deal. I think they have to do it. I do believe the Lakers would like a Farmar, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1, 2010 #1, instead of the same deal with JC, with just a 2008 #1 being offered. As I said on the Lakers board, the Pacers deserve JC in this deal if no LO.

If you told me one team does not do this deal it would be the Lakers, because these guys are young and gifted, plus Fisher has signed, which should shut Kobe up. That being said, they are still a #5 seed in the west as is. Getting JO would put them at #3 behind SA and Suns, jumping ahead of Dallas and Utah. My guess is the deal gets completed, and the little signs with Kwame, DA, comments made by Lakers and Pacers regarding draft and free agency, lead me to believe this deal has a pretty good chance of going down come August. If by the second week of August nothing has hapenned, we know it is dead. And us Laker fans and Pacer fans can go our separate ways, as I invade your turf again.

Pacersfan46
07-15-2007, 12:06 PM
Did you say JO would put the Lakers above the Mavs?

-- Steve --

Oneal07
07-15-2007, 12:20 PM
I think the deal is dead!!! J.O. will probably go to a team no one expects him to go to

BobbyMac
07-15-2007, 12:31 PM
I think the deal is dead!!! J.O. will probably go to a team no one expects him to go to


Like the Pacers! Still don't think he's going anywhere....Lakers don't have enough to get him.

LAKERERIC
07-15-2007, 12:41 PM
Yes, I would put them above the Mavs. Though Dallas is a great regualar season team, I believe the Lakers are the #3 threat in the West. Although, your insinuation that Dallas may have the better regular season record may be right. As for the Lakers not having enough, then I guess you won't be trading JO, which is a bit risky, since he may walk. The Lakers have a nice young package, and I would be willing to bet you cannot find a package better. Even if NJ was offering Jefferson and Kristic, which I don't believe they are, Crittenton gives you a young backcourt presence, and Bynum could give you a good young center to go with the young perimeter talent. If the Pacers are not willing to take a step back in order to retool the team, than the trade will not take place. But, respectfully, I believe you guys are overrating JO's value just a bit, because the Crittenton, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1 for JO, Harrison is about as good an offer as you will get. Of that, I am confident.

blanket
07-15-2007, 12:43 PM
Laker-Pacer Trade is either dead or will happen once JC can be traded

A third possibility is the Lakers wait to pull the trigger until they know for sure that they're out of the KG sweepstakes, which may not happen until just before training camp opens.

Oneal07
07-15-2007, 12:51 PM
Like the Pacers! Still don't think he's going anywhere....Lakers don't have enough to get him.

Yeah, I have that feeling too!!! Some people should understand that the PAcers always comeback quick and become a playoff team, regardless of the year before. I still think last years team was nyce. . I mean the only reason why we didn't make the playoffs was because of that losing streak. If we won atleast 6 or 7 of those game we would have made the playoffs and Orlando or Miami would have been chillen playing Golf. We just need another perimetre defender, PG and a rebounder, something like a Dale Davis type player and we're fine

LAKERERIC
07-15-2007, 01:09 PM
Also, I think a trade going down in midseason is very unlikely. If it goes into the season, I think the Pacers may may find themselves in a bind if they are a fringe playoff team and guys like Bynum and Crittenton show some of their talent. Ultimately, it comes down to this: Will the Pacers, with guys like Granger, Williams, Diagu, Daniels, Tinsley, hope those guys can provide the supporting cast around JO and stand pat? Or will they say: You know what, in 3-4 years, we can be really, really, good, possibly with a core of JC, Granger, Williams, Diagu, Bynum. Or they can stay as is, fight for the 8th seed, and watch JO dip slightly every year, along with his trade value. In 2-3 years, who knows how this trade looks? But there are more Laker fans than you think that are against a JC/Bynum for JO deal. I think it helps one team in the short term and another long term, which makes sense considering that the Lakers, with Kobe, need to make a push, while the Pacers can be ready to jump on teams like Miami, Detroit, NJ, maybe even Cleveland in 2-3 years and be right with Chicago atop the east. This deal could help make that happen, while giving the Lakers a good 3-4 year push for a ring right now. It makes sense for both teams, and you can argue against it for both teams, which makes me think it is very possible, because deals should by definition make sense for both sides, with an element of risk figuring in for both sides. For the Pacers, it would be unrealized potential and a very young team. For the Lakers, it would be JO's age and health, and the realized potential of both Bynum and JC. The point is if the deal happpens, I think we all know what it would be and both sides would have people supporting and not supporting the deal. We both of that in common.

idioteque
07-15-2007, 01:11 PM
But, respectfully, I believe you guys are overrating JO's value just a bit, because the Crittenton, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1 for JO, Harrison is about as good an offer as you will get. Of that, I am confident.

I would take that in a heartbeat.

I know Cook ain't that good, but apparently the one thing he can do is shoot, something we are apparently lacking. I am unaware of his contract situation but if it isn't really long term and high dollar then I'm willing to take him on.

Crittenton is a risk, but he's a big PG (which I have always liked) and if he can get a solid grounding in some of the fundamentals from our staff, he can be our PG for the next ten years.

Kwame is a decent reserve, can put up 10 and 6 when needed, but most importantly is salary cap relief.

Bynum could be the league's next year center, or he could be a 15 and 8 guy. Again, it's a risk, but it could be high reward.

And I love the idea of having two draft picks to work with next year. I predict that the Pacers will pick around 11th again and the Lakers pick will be somewhere between 18-21.

And we give up Harrison, who is more or less useless. And JO, who, while he has done a lot for the team, is on the downswing of his career, is injury prone, has questionable leadership skills, and is a below average shooter.

Yes, it's a rebuilding move, but we're going nowhere next year with or without JO on the team.

Rajah Brown
07-15-2007, 01:29 PM
LAKERERIC-

I notice you mention J.O.'s 'age' with the seeming inference that he's
getting old by NBA standards, etc.

He's 28. That's about the time that most athletes are just hitting their
physical prime which typically lasts until about 32 or so and then,
depending on the individual and the sport, they begin to start to
decline.

And here's another tidbit to chew on. Taking into consideration both
regular season and the playoffs, J.O. has played a total about 21,000
minutes.

Garnett, who's admittedly a bit better all around player than J.O. and
has a better, more balanced physique than J.O. is 31 and has played
a total of about 37,500 minutes.

Karmakillaz
07-15-2007, 01:39 PM
While this has nothing to do with Age, KG has never significantly altered his body. He has stayed at a weight he is comfortable with. While I believe the weight JO put on has led to his injury issues and not being half as explosive as he used to be which makes him settle for jump shots.

Forcing JO to gain weight so he would fit into his inside out game plan was the worst thing Carlisle ever did to this franchise.

Shade
07-15-2007, 01:50 PM
If we deal for Crittenton, there will be a new scapegoat in town (once Tins is gone).

Shade
07-15-2007, 01:52 PM
Yes, I would put them above the Mavs. Though Dallas is a great regualar season team, I believe the Lakers are the #3 threat in the West. Although, your insinuation that Dallas may have the better regular season record may be right. As for the Lakers not having enough, then I guess you won't be trading JO, which is a bit risky, since he may walk. The Lakers have a nice young package, and I would be willing to bet you cannot find a package better. Even if NJ was offering Jefferson and Kristic, which I don't believe they are, Crittenton gives you a young backcourt presence, and Bynum could give you a good young center to go with the young perimeter talent. If the Pacers are not willing to take a step back in order to retool the team, than the trade will not take place. But, respectfully, I believe you guys are overrating JO's value just a bit, because the Crittenton, Bynum, Brown, Cook, 2008 #1 for JO, Harrison is about as good an offer as you will get. Of that, I am confident.

If JO is the difference between the Lakers wallowing in the lower-tier of Western Conference playoff teams and being in the top 2-3, methinks we're not valuing him enough.

Shade
07-15-2007, 01:54 PM
LAKERERIC-

I notice you mention J.O.'s 'age' with the seeming inference that he's
getting old by NBA standards, etc.

He's 28. That's about the time that most athletes are just hitting their
physical prime which typically lasts until about 32 or so and then,
depending on the individual and the sport, they begin to start to
decline.

And here's another tidbit to chew on. Taking into consideration both
regular season and the playoffs, J.O. has played a total about 21,000
minutes.

Garnett, who's admittedly a bit better all around player than J.O. and
has a better, more balanced physique than J.O. is 31 and has played
a total of about 37,500 minutes.

Precisely.

JO is hitting his prime right now, and will likely still be in it (or just starting on the downslope) as his contract ends.

Shade
07-15-2007, 01:55 PM
While this has nothing to do with Age, KG has never significantly altered his body. He has stayed at a weight he is comfortable with. While I believe the weight JO put on has led to his injury issues and not being half as explosive as he used to be which makes him settle for jump shots.

Forcing JO to gain weight so he would fit into his inside out game plan was the worst thing Carlisle ever did to this franchise.

Are we sure this was Carlisle's decision?

Anthem
07-15-2007, 02:04 PM
Are we sure this was Carlisle's decision?
Nope, it was Donnie's.

Nobody ever told JO "gain 30 pounds." But they've also steadfastly refused to get him any help since they let Brad walk. So JO felt he had to gain the extra weight to play the role Carlisle/Donnie forced him to play.

Anthem
07-15-2007, 02:05 PM
If JO is the difference between the Lakers wallowing in the lower-tier of Western Conference playoff teams and being in the top 2-3, methinks we're not valuing him enough.
An excellent point.

Rajah Brown
07-15-2007, 02:16 PM
Karmakillaz-

Agreed. J.O. at 260 lbs is too 'top heavy'. He'd be much better off
playing at about 245 lbs or so. The things is though, at that lighter
weight, he probably can't bang effectively in the post and he doesn't
seem to have the all-around-skill-set (ala Garnett) to play effectively
facing the bucket all the time.

I don't totally blame Carlisle, but in hindsight, using J.O. much more
along the lines that Phoenix uses Stoudamire (sp?) would have been
the way to go.

gng930
07-15-2007, 02:16 PM
Cook is BYC and I'm not sure why the Pacers would want him and his 3-year contract when they already have Troy Murphy.

For the Pacers, the most attractive package built around Bynum, Crit, and pick(s) would be Kwame, Sasha, and Evans (all expiring Ks)

beast23
07-15-2007, 02:24 PM
LAKERERIC-

I notice you mention J.O.'s 'age' with the seeming inference that he's
getting old by NBA standards, etc.

He's 28. That's about the time that most athletes are just hitting their
physical prime which typically lasts until about 32 or so and then,
depending on the individual and the sport, they begin to start to
decline.

And here's another tidbit to chew on. Taking into consideration both
regular season and the playoffs, J.O. has played a total about 21,000
minutes.

Garnett, who's admittedly a bit better all around player than J.O. and
has a better, more balanced physique than J.O. is 31 and has played
a total of about 37,500 minutes.

LAKERERIC -

You seem to imply that the Lakers are not nearly as urgent in making the deal because they now have Fisher, JC and that maybe Bynum is "coming into his own".

Oh, please. That's hoping for a lot in the coming year from JC and Bynum. And the acquisition of Fisher in the appeasment of Kobe? In the significance of things, that's about as significant as a flea on an elephant's arse. Kobe is apparently looking for a REAL difference-maker, and he wants it done now. You guys haven't come close to accomplishing that yet, and the urgency is still there.

Regarding your ramblings about minutes, age and all that happy horse-hockey... I suppose that it hasn't occurred to you that the great Kobe is actually 2 months older than Jermaine and that he has logged a total of 33,500 minutes compared to JO's 21,500.

CRAP! The sky must be falling. I guess that means that Kobe is well past his prime and that he must somehow have one foot in the bball player graveyard. You better bring that to Mitch's attention, because I'm certain that it has never occurred to him that Kobe is actually a has-been and that he should trade his arse or better yet, just let him walk... since he's obviously not worth anything... you know, because of his advanced age and all those minutes and all.

The truth of the matter is, the Lakers don't have a better player available to them than Jermaine. You can ramble all you want about waiting for this date or that date or that the stars must be in alignment, age, minutes or whatever. But I think it comes down to one point and one point only.

Walsh has looked straight at Kupchak and basically said "Put up or shut up."

avoidingtheclowns
07-15-2007, 02:46 PM
Cook is BYC and I'm not sure why the Pacers would want him and his 3-year contract when they already have Troy Murphy.

For the Pacers, the most attractive package built around Bynum, Crit, and pick(s) would be Kwame, Sasha, and Evans (all expiring Ks)

we don't want cook...

the problem with the above deal is that its 1 for 5 trade. even if we toss in Armstrong or Harrison we'd need to add another piece. i think the only way to work it out without including Odom or VladRad or Cook... is re-sign McKie for the $3mil with first year guarenteed with lakers sending cash to pay for it.

sixthman
07-15-2007, 03:13 PM
i think the only way to work it out without including Odom or VladRad or Cook... is re-sign McKie for the $3mil with first year guarenteed with lakers sending cash to pay for it.

Exactly. If the Pacers are interested in this trade, one of the best benefits is an opportunity to get the team's finances in better shape. Taking on Cook's contract needlessly would NOT be good.

We should have the chance to wind up at the end of the year with only Bynum and the rookie contract of Crittenton, along with the draft pick(s), if we choose to let Kwame go his separate way.

diamonddave00
07-15-2007, 03:13 PM
Cook being byc basicly can't be in the trade. A deal that works is either Bynum , Crittenden , Brown, Vujacic or Evans , a resigned and waived McKie (salary paid by Lakers sending trade max mil ) and a #1 in 2008-10 one of those 3 years. The Pacers waive McKie.

Another version that works is both Evan and Vujacic but I don't see the Pacers wanting 5 contracts for one. Nor the Lakers shipping that many away in one trade.

A 3rd option is Bynum, Brown, Crittenden , Vujacic and McKie + 1 for JO and Harrison. This gives the Lakers 2 bigs and clears Harrison's contract.

Personally I think the 2 teams will make a trade probably the 1st week of August. Jim Hill a sports guy last night reported that Crittenden was part of a package trade , Laker fans think its KG -I think its Pacers.

SoupIsGood
07-15-2007, 03:29 PM
Donnie better be SOLD on JC if we trade JO w/ him and Bynum being the best returning prospects.

Ugh.

gng930
07-15-2007, 03:37 PM
I'd love to get Harrison back in the deal. I worry about giving JO too much time at the 5 and I simply don't trust Mihm's ankle enough to depend on him for significant minutes. At least Harrison is the kind of guy that can man up. I wouldn't mind trading Mihm out to DET for Nazr. Nazr's been in their doghouse and they probably would like to get rid of his contract for a shorter one. I'd be comfortable with a center rotation of Nazr, Harrison, with JO and Turiaf able to play in limited situations.

Shade
07-15-2007, 03:55 PM
Donnie better be SOLD on JC if we trade JO w/ him and Bynum being the best returning prospects.

Ugh.

C - Bynum/Murphy/Brown
PF - Diogu/Foster
SF - Granger/Williams
SG - Daniels/Dunleavy/Rush/Vujacic/Graham
PG - Tinsley/Crittenton/Owens

Ugh indeed.

Tom White
07-15-2007, 04:00 PM
Jim Hill a sports guy last night reported that Crittenden was part of a package trade , Laker fans think its KG -I think its Pacers.

So who is this Jim Hill? Sports radio? Website writer? Bus boy at the PD party?

Smashed_Potato
07-15-2007, 04:06 PM
Jim Hill is our local LA guy and i can tell you this he has high stake connections hes trust worthy.

Swingman
07-15-2007, 04:09 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't mind Crittendon and Bynum being the main parts of the trade for JO. I think we should definitely get a draft pick as well though (preferably 2009).

However it doesn't fit the retooling idea Bird and Walsh keep spewing. Personally, I think retooling is a bad idea and will just keep us a mediocre team at best. We need to rebuild and the LA trade at least gives us a few more players with good potential.

sixthman
07-15-2007, 06:22 PM
I'd love to get Harrison back in the deal. I worry about giving JO too much time at the 5 and I simply don't trust Mihm's ankle enough to depend on him for significant minutes. At least Harrison is the kind of guy that can man up. I wouldn't mind trading Mihm out to DET for Nazr. Nazr's been in their doghouse and they probably would like to get rid of his contract for a shorter one. I'd be comfortable with a center rotation of Nazr, Harrison, with JO and Turiaf able to play in limited situations.

Makes sense to me for the Lakers.

Rajah Brown
07-15-2007, 06:46 PM
Soup-

Assuming he'll be playing PG, Crittenton is a LONG way from making
any signifigant impact in the NBA. If he's headed here, I suppose
the transition may be a bit easier as O'B's system is probably
simpler than some. But still, we'll just be adding a young, talented
backcourt piece to the puzzle that'll hopefully pay off 2-4 years
down the road.

Combine that with Bynum (who probably has a similar progression
timeframe) at C, the young F's we already have and a crappy
season next year that lands us in the lottery w/ a shot at one
of Rose, Gordon or Mayo and we might be in a position to do
some serious damage by about the 2010-2011 season.

carpediem024
07-15-2007, 07:30 PM
I think it's dead.

And I actually think Kobe doesn't really care, maybe he's cooled off now.

Smashed_Potato
07-15-2007, 07:32 PM
Your delusional if you think Kobe doesn't care.

Anthem
07-15-2007, 11:09 PM
Your delusional if you think Kobe doesn't care.
Have a fun season then. Because you're not offering enough to get JO or KG.

Good thing Kobe got his buddy back... that's going to be most of his support this year.

But hey, at least you signed Luke Walton!

AndrewBynum17
07-15-2007, 11:20 PM
Your delusional if you think Kobe doesn't care.

Kobe cares- about scoring 40 points per game.

He wants to win with conditions. In other words, He doesn't just want to win, he wants to win with him being the superstar. Most selfish player in the NBA is Kobe. He's not even top 5 and is overrated like crazy.

that's why he wants bynum out, cuz he knows bynum is the next SHAQ and doesn't want to defer to Bynum. He knows the only way the Lakers win titles with Kobe and Bynum is if Bynum is the #1 and Kobe is the #2, Just like when SHAQ was the #1 and Kobe was the #2.

That's why kobe "the trash" bryant wants to "fing ship bynum's *** out"

Bynum is ready now, to average 30 PPG, 15 REB and 4 BPG NOW. Kobe is just holding back Bynum and he knows it. Bynum threatens Kobe's #1 spot and he knows it.

Last year he shot 56% from the field, has kobe ever shot close to 50% in a season?

BlueNGold
07-15-2007, 11:22 PM
I don't know whether it's dead or not, but there is no doubt in my mind that it will take more than JO to get both Odom and Bynum. LA is making this move to contend. We are making it to rebuild. They will not do the deal if they are left in basically the same shape...which without Bynum, Brown and Odom they would be worse IMO.

I also firmly believe that Bynum was kept out of summer league because the Lakers are trying to deal him...to appease Kobe and make one more run with their only true superstar. Yes, I think LA will get either KG or JO. I do believe LA has the assets to get JO without giving up Odom.

The real key here is: Odom + JO > KG.

AndrewBynum17
07-15-2007, 11:29 PM
The real key here is: Odom + JO > KG.

that's what I was thinking too,

I think LA will trade us BYNUM and CRITTENTON, maybe add in Kwame, Farmar,
For JO,

and then use JO and LO to get KG.

Kegboy
07-15-2007, 11:35 PM
Bynum is ready now, to average 30 PPG, 15 REB and 4 BPG NOW.

Dude, are you feeling okay? You might want to go to a hospital.

AndrewBynum17
07-15-2007, 11:41 PM
Dude, are you feeling okay? You might want to go to a hospital.

What do you call scoring 16-20 points at times in about 20 minutes of play, all of this as not even the focal point of the team, and playing with kobe of all players.

gng930
07-15-2007, 11:47 PM
Have a fun season then. Because you're not offering enough to get JO or KG.

Good thing Kobe got his buddy back... that's going to be most of his support this year.

But hey, at least you signed Luke Walton!

Being an Indy fan, are you really in position to make fun of any other franchise's state?

Kegboy
07-15-2007, 11:49 PM
Being an Indy fan, are you really in position to make fun of any other franchise's state?

For the love of god, would you people please go away.

beast23
07-15-2007, 11:54 PM
The real key here is: Odom + JO > KG.
From Kupchak's perspective, I'm sure that is the key. But who gives a crap about Kupchak's perspective?

From Donnie's perspective, it's something more like
Bynum + Brown + x + ... = JO + y

And without including Odom on the left-hand side of the equation, as long as JO is involved on the right-hand side of the equation, an equality is almost impossible. The only thing that I see in an attempt to even out the equation is that LA accept more than one crap contract from the Pacers. Maybe Tinsley AND Murphy. But LA just doesn't have enough to make that work either.

Anthem
07-15-2007, 11:56 PM
Being an Indy fan, are you really in position to make fun of any other franchise's state?
I don't come on your boards and offer Shawne Williams and Jeff Foster for Kobe, either.

And I won't be upset if you leave here and mock me for it.

Just don't do it here.

LAKERERIC
07-15-2007, 11:58 PM
The reason I as a Laker fan am over here, other than I need to get more of a life, is that the Pacers and Lakers are an obvious match for a very big trade, which doesn't happen that often. As a Laker fan, I feel the team is in good shape. I like the young talent, but they are missing a third guy. Odom is a very good #3 player on a title team, but they need a #2. And it needs to be inside. Bynum may be really good, but I think he will be peaking in a few years. He is not quite ready. I love JCs talent, but they did sign Fisher and Farmar is a good complement. Throw in Kwame, Cook, and 2008 #1 and you add Harrison and that is fair. As I said, I could see either team rejecting or accepting that trade. But the Lakers do need to make a push right now, and that trade puts takes them from, say, the 10th best team in the NBA to, say, 4th. The Pacers would have a young, talented team. More talented than the Philly team that started coming on strong at the end of the year, although Iguadala is probably a bit better than Granger, particularly offensively. But I would be happy to be a Pacer fan in about 3 years after this deal. Is that really something you can say right now?

LAKERERIC
07-16-2007, 12:02 AM
By the way, the "state" of the Pacers, should they make the deal, would be one of a young, talented team. Right now, they seem in stuck mode. As a Lakers fan, I'd do the deal but it makes me a little nervous because I see genuine upside for both guys we'd be giving up, and for some reason JO worries me with his health (Webber?). I say it happens as soon as Crittenton's contract becomes official in terms of being able to be traded.

Kegboy
07-16-2007, 12:04 AM
No, it's not an obvious match. You guys don't want to give up Odom, and you don't have the pieces to make up for it. After Kobe, your roster is bad. That's not our fault, it's Kupchak's. Go bother him.

Y2J
07-16-2007, 12:05 AM
If we could get Bynum, Crittenton, Kwame, and a 1st for J.O. and Harrison I'd take it without a seconds hesitation. What do we have to lose? It's debatable if we're even a playoff team this year, J.O.'s pushing 30 and his trade value is declining every season. As we stand now, we're stuck in mediocrity. The Lakers deal gives us a lot of hope for the future, something we're currently lacking. I personally feel Bynum will be better than J.O. in 2-3 seasons, and Crittenton has the potential to be a great starter himself.

LAKERERIC
07-16-2007, 12:12 AM
Kupchak is not a bad GM. Many Lakers fans believe that, and they are fools. The guy basically was ordered to gut the roster after 2004 sans Kobe, and he has assembled a pretty talented squad with Odom, Bynum, Turiaf, Farmar, Walton, Crittenton, Fisher in 3 years. The Lakers are a good team, a 5th or 6th seed in the west, that probably wins right at 50 as is, with some young players who may get better. That ain't bad. But, under the gun, the Lakers will have to go for it right now. The JO trade is no gimmy for the Lakers. It improves them but I still rank them behind SA and the Suns. Who right now, even with the team they have, would you say would definitely beat the Lakers in a playoff series? Please don't say Dallas. The Pacers are young, and JO. I don't like Murphy or Tinsley. Dunleavy is a nice player. Daniels is a really good third guard, while Granger is a solid 3. Williams and Diagu can be good, but Bynum and Farmar probably have equal talent to Granger. So, you would have some pretty damn good players. What is better: Duking it out for the 8th seed or having the team I just outlined be the 11th seed, add some more young talent is next year's draft, sneak into the playoffs the following year, and be a team like last year's Bulls by year 3. I could see that with the Pacers if they make the deal. It just makes sense for both teams, in my opinion.

beast23
07-16-2007, 12:52 AM
Well, I'll tell you what. Let's put the shoe on the other foot.

You have Odom, who is a pretty good player right now. We have Diogu, who has a great deal of potential and as you say, can be pretty good.

Why don't we give you Diogu for Odom. You can duke it out for the 8th seed now, and if you miss the playoffs, YOU can get a pretty good player to go with Ike, Kobe, Fisher and Crittendon. You might be able to sneak into the playoffs the next year, and be a team like last year's Bulls by year 3. Blah, blah blah.

Sounds pretty damn ridiculous, doesn't it.

ERIC, you haven't been paying attention to anything that our coach and our front office has been saying.

Their goal is to make the playoffs NEXT SEASON. For clarification, that's the playoffs in the spring of 2008, not the playoffs in the spring of 2010.

And we sure as hell have no chance of making that happen if we get screwed in a trade by the Lakers. So far, the only thing that I can suggest that you supply in any trade not involving both Bynum and Odom is a gigantic jar of Vaseline. Because that's what it's going to take to sooth all of the season ticket holders if the trade you suggest goes through.

grace
07-16-2007, 12:54 AM
Being an Indy fan, are you really in position to make fun of any other franchise's state?


Yes. Next question.

Bball
07-16-2007, 02:18 AM
Kupchak is not a bad GM. Many Lakers fans believe that, and they are fools. The guy basically was ordered to gut the roster after 2004 sans Kobe, and he has assembled a pretty talented squad with Odom, Bynum, Turiaf, Farmar, Walton, Crittenton, Fisher in 3 years. The Lakers are a good team, a 5th or 6th seed in the west, that probably wins right at 50 as is, with some young players who may get better. That ain't bad. But, under the gun, the Lakers will have to go for it right now. The JO trade is no gimmy for the Lakers. It improves them but I still rank them behind SA and the Suns. Who right now, even with the team they have, would you say would definitely beat the Lakers in a playoff series? Please don't say Dallas. The Pacers are young, and JO. I don't like Murphy or Tinsley. Dunleavy is a nice player. Daniels is a really good third guard, while Granger is a solid 3. Williams and Diagu can be good, but Bynum and Farmar probably have equal talent to Granger. So, you would have some pretty damn good players. What is better: Duking it out for the 8th seed or having the team I just outlined be the 11th seed, add some more young talent is next year's draft, sneak into the playoffs the following year, and be a team like last year's Bulls by year 3. I could see that with the Pacers if they make the deal. It just makes sense for both teams, in my opinion.



Eric,
You forget that the Pacers are a 'win now' at all costs organization from the top down. Even if that 'win now' costs us wins in the future, so be it. As long as the Simons own the team, or Walsh holds the keys to the Kingdom, that won't change.

We would never commit to a rebuilding process because we would never intentionally put ourselves into position to miss the playoffs in the short term.

You're thinking from the angle of a team wanting one day to hoist a trophy as their only goal. That is not how the Pacers operate. Our powers that be are willing/satisfied to be mediocre as long as that is good enough to make the playoffs. And when your #1 goal is to make the playoffs then you're not going to be picking high in the draft very often.... but you will be middle of the road with middle of the road draft picks.

-Bball

JayRedd
07-16-2007, 09:38 AM
Dude, are you feeling okay? You might want to go to a hospital.

A hospital? What is it?

MagicRat
07-16-2007, 09:55 AM
A hospital? What is it?

Surely you can't be serious.

It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

FrenchConnection
07-16-2007, 10:02 AM
Well, I'll tell you what. Let's put the shoe on the other foot.

You have Odom, who is a pretty good player right now. We have Diogu, who has a great deal of potential and as you say, can be pretty good.

Why don't we give you Diogu for Odom. You can duke it out for the 8th seed now, and if you miss the playoffs, YOU can get a pretty good player to go with Ike, Kobe, Fisher and Crittendon. You might be able to sneak into the playoffs the next year, and be a team like last year's Bulls by year 3. Blah, blah blah.

Sounds pretty damn ridiculous, doesn't it.

ERIC, you haven't been paying attention to anything that our coach and our front office has been saying.

Their goal is to make the playoffs NEXT SEASON. For clarification, that's the playoffs in the spring of 2008, not the playoffs in the spring of 2010.

And we sure as hell have no chance of making that happen if we get screwed in a trade by the Lakers. So far, the only thing that I can suggest that you supply in any trade not involving both Bynum and Odom is a gigantic jar of Vaseline. Because that's what it's going to take to sooth all of the season ticket holders if the trade you suggest goes through.

This is the best post on this subject that I have seen in a long time. The Lakers are in pretty much the same position that we are in (a team with some talent but in need to another major piece to compete), but they have a fanbase that demands winning all the time. Go read their message boards. One of the posters was suggesting the salary cap needs to go so that the large market teams can dominate "for the good of the league." The Pacers and the Wolves are supposed to supply their talent to the Lakers so that they can go back to the finals and improve TV ratings "for the good of the league." What would make me sick is if we trade JO to LA for prospects and they get to win now while we have to "rebuild." Rebuilding seems to be a process that is a good idea for the Pacers and Hawks, but something that the vaunted Lakers should never have to do. Why don't they trade Kobe and rebuild? Seems like the best course of action for that franchise, don't you think. They are not going anywhere with that group of players and I think that Kobe would look good in the "B&G" alongside JO. That team would be good for the health of the sport in the Midwest. Seriously, I would much rather see JO go just about anyplace else, just so those fans have to suffer some more years of losing. This includes Boston, and I hate Boston.

Spicoli
07-16-2007, 10:06 AM
Surely you can't be serious.

It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.

I think he was serious. But don't call him Shirley.

Anthem
07-16-2007, 11:15 AM
Any chance this could get merged into the official thread?

Hicks
07-16-2007, 02:15 PM
http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=32529