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View Full Version : Indystar Midlevel deals can be flops



pwee31
07-11-2007, 02:24 PM
Very true, but i'm still one of those fans that would rather get someone, especially either of the 3 guards mentioned.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070711/SPORTS04/707110471/1247/SPORTS




By Patrick Dorsey

The Indiana Pacers' payroll will surpass the NBA's 2007-08 salary cap, announced Tuesday night as $55.63 million per team.


But that doesn't mean they lack options.
The team still owns a midlevel salary cap exception, a free agency chip awarded to franchises over the cap -- and one of the few ways the Pacers can improve this offseason.
The upcoming season's midlevel exception is $5.36 million.
"We're certainly going to look at (using) it," Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said last month.
That means, starting today, they could bring in players such as Steve Blake, Mo Williams or Sasha Pavlovic to help their backcourt.
But, Walsh said, the exception comes with a huge caution sign. Other NBA executives agree.
"It's a nice luxury to have," Magic senior vice president Pat Williams said, "but I think there's a temptation to use it, maybe even when you shouldn't."
Last season five players received full exceptions from teams. Just two -- Mike James (Timberwolves) and Tim Thomas (Clippers) -- averaged double figures in scoring.
The other three -- Nazr Mohammed (Pistons), Vladimir Radmanovic (Lakers) and Jared Jeffries (Knicks) -- became little more than bit players.
All signed contracts ranging from four years and $23 million to five years and $31 million. They weren't the first players to become midlevel mishaps.
Since the exception nearly doubled to about $4.5 million in 2001, there have been a few successes -- including Larry Hughes and, most notably, Chauncey Billups -- and many failures, such as Todd MacCullouch, Michael Olowokandi, Brian Cardinal and Jerome James.
The reasons are plenty, NBA insiders say. One occurs when several teams bid for one player.
"The more teams that can compete for players, the better marketplace it is," said agent Mark Bartelstein, who has represented midlevel signees Cardinal, Derek Fisher, James Posey and others. "It creates more opportunities and gives players leverage."
Many have been big men, who often earn large contracts in the free agent market.
Others were coming off strong seasons and failed to match that production. Injuries also played a factor, as did situations in which the player's and team's needs didn't mesh.
And then there were times when teams simply wanted to add a piece, regardless of the financial implications.
"Clearly there are ways of flexing your financial muscle as an ownership group to get things done within the rules," former Magic general manager John Gabriel said, "and that would be one of them."
Just don't expect the Pacers to go too far. Teams are "taxed" dollar for dollar on the amount they are over the luxury tax threshold of $67.87 million. The Pacers are approaching that level.
So instead of using the full exception, the Pacers can use part of it or decline to use it.
"It's a tough call," Williams said. "You've got to be aggressive for your fans. They've got to have hope. They've got to see that you're trying to improve your team."

Kstat
07-11-2007, 02:33 PM
I don't get the point of this article.

"MLE players can be flops, or they can be finals MVPs"

Um...ok? Your point is....

How are MLE free agents different from any other free agents in this regard?

RSmits
07-11-2007, 02:35 PM
The point of the article is that it's summertime, things are slow, and the editors wanted to give a summer intern the opportunity to write the Star's weekly, directionless fluff piece.

JayRedd
07-11-2007, 02:41 PM
Very true, but i'm still one of those fans that would rather get someone, especially either of the 3 guards mentioned.

If we gave the full MLE to either Blake or Sasha, I would be pretty upset. And I really like Blake.



I don't get the point of this article.

"MLE players can be flops, or they can be finals MVPs"

Um...ok? Your point is....

How are MLE free agents different from any other free agents in this regard?

Seems like it's written for people who have never heard of the MLE. The whole article is quite a ways below most of PDs reading level.

Kraft
07-11-2007, 02:42 PM
The point of the article is that it's summertime, things are slow, and the editors wanted to give a summer intern the opportunity to write the Star's weekly, directionless fluff piece.

Definitely intern work here, methinks. A no-harm, no-foul job.

Kegboy
07-11-2007, 02:45 PM
"It's a tough call," Williams said. "You've got to be aggressive for your fans. They've got to have hope. They've got to see that you're trying to improve your team."

Interesting. Good thing we got Rush and Stanko.

avoidingtheclowns
07-11-2007, 02:46 PM
as if anyone involved with the magic should be lecturing the league on financial concerns today

JayRedd
07-11-2007, 02:49 PM
Rush and Stanko.

If this whole NBA thing doesn't work out, they should get these two guys together to do a "Perfect Strangers II" series. I'm sure LoneGranger could write the script for them.

Kraft
07-11-2007, 02:54 PM
Wonder what Cousin Larry is doing nowadays ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbnLYROCj8

LoneGranger33
07-11-2007, 03:34 PM
If this whole NBA thing doesn't work out, they should get these two guys together to do a "Perfect Strangers II" series. I'm sure LoneGranger could write the script for them.

I already wrote a television series based on the hilarious/heart-warming/perilous adventures of Stanko, Kareem and Travis (Diener, of course), but the name "My Boys" has apparently already been taken. Who knew? Look for the cameo by David Duchovny in the pilot episode (I'm an X-Files junkie).

Hicks
07-11-2007, 03:47 PM
I'd like to pick up Pavlovic. He's got a good 3p% and he finally started trying on defense last year under Brown.

Of course, if you choose to believe that the Indystar is a mouthpiece of the Pacers, this is basically saying "don't bet on us spending any of it".

Young
07-11-2007, 03:55 PM
Well the Pacers really could use a shooting guard. But with Dunleavy and Granger here, atleast to me, it makes it kind of pointless to go after one like Sasha or Morris Petterson. We have guys like Marquis Daniesl, Kareem Rush, Shawne Williams, and maybe Stephen Graham off the bench. Maybe we just have to roll with that.

And Mo Williams will not be going for the MLE. Rumors have him going to Miami and my guess if a sign and trade. He defiantly will go for 6-8 million and I think the MLE is like 5 million.

Naptown_Seth
07-11-2007, 04:34 PM
I don't get the point of this article.

"MLE players can be flops, or they can be finals MVPs"

Um...ok? Your point is....

How are MLE free agents different from any other free agents in this regard?
I disagree that it's for people with less understanding, and I think the point is that many fans get into their head that the MLE is a practically free and should be used most of the time, certainly in the Pacers case where little other changes appear to be on the horizon for a team that finished poorly.

I think fans do see the MLE as "well at least they didn't spend much". We see comments along that line here all the time regarding possible signings. Even funnier is that people rip on Tinsley's contract when it bascially is an MLE deal at this point.


Pair this with Mark's comments and my guess is that TPTB are priming the fans for a "no moves" summer, knowing that many fans are chomping at the bit for changes.

I'll repeat my feelings on the matter - don't change just to change, that's what got you in this spot. Think about a real roster plan and if you can't currently make moves to fit that then just ride out some pain, pain that will remind you to be more careful before you toss out a 1st round pick for Al or rush to get rid of a player fans are booing at any cost.


I mean I'd be all for moving Dun and Troy myself due to their deals and the team's needs, but it won't bother me at all if they don't. Better the frying pan than the fire IMO.

pwee31
07-11-2007, 04:35 PM
If we gave the full MLE to either Blake or Sasha, I would be pretty upset. And I really like Blake.




Seems like it's written for people who have never heard of the MLE. The whole article is quite a ways below most of PDs reading level.

I'm not sure I would give it to Blake, but it's not like I would be upset if it happened.

I think Sasha and Mo are worth the MLE. Mo will be offered more, but may settle for less (in Miami). Sasha is a starting SG. His defense has improve (as seen against VC in the playoffs). and the guy can get you double digites on the offense as well, as long as shoot the 3.

We seem to have a lot of wing players right now, so it may not be a good fit, but if we move one, or commit Quis as a PG, I wouldn't mind having Sasha at all

That 2nd quote wasn't mine by the way

JayRedd
07-11-2007, 04:43 PM
I disagree that it's for people with less understanding, and I think the point is that many fans get into their head that the MLE is a practically free and should be used most of the time, certainly in the Pacers case where little other changes appear to be on the horizon for a team that finished poorly.

I think fans do see the MLE as "well at least they didn't spend much". We see comments along that line here all the time regarding possible signings. Even funnier is that people rip on Tinsley's contract when it bascially is an MLE deal at this point.

Maybe I phrased it wrong. But the whole opening of the piece seemed to be like, "Hey kids, did you know there's actually away for teams over the cap to get free agents?"

I agree that too many people think you should use it just because you're allowed to. But I also think it's pretty obvious you shouldn't be giving $5 million per year deals to guys who aren't gonna significantly help your club. That word "exception" makes it seem like you should use it because you're "beating the system," but if you're giving $25+ million deals to guys like Kapono, Jerome James or Sasha Pavlovic, you're only beating yourself.

Naptown_Seth
07-11-2007, 05:03 PM
Isn't it odd though that it's supposed to be the MID level, the average, yet most of these guys aren't even that.

Are rookie deals factored into what the MLE is set at? I don't know and don't recall if Coon's FAQ covers that.


Also the article sort of touches on something else, that because few teams are under the cap but nearly all of them get an MLE to work with, the MLE world has become the new FA market where guys get bid up beyond what they deserve simply because there are more players involved.

Think about Al last year. After CHI and NO spent their big money on Ben and Peja there wasn't much else out there in terms of FA money. Atlanta who was moving him, CHA who wasn't interested. Was there anyone else left under the cap even?

It was easier for an MLE guy to get overpaid than a true FA star player (or semi-star at least), and in the end Al didn't get overpaid because of these limits. It's an interesting dynamic.