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diamonddave00
07-09-2007, 11:47 PM
Raptors To Offer Contract To Maceo Baston?
July 9, 2007 - 11:28 pm
Globe And Mail -
According to two league sources the team is expected to make an offer to Indiana Pacers big man Maceo Baston, a restricted free agent who could help Toronto shore up their rebounding and shot-blocking.

"They're working hard towards getting that done," a source said.

"There's a connection with Baston and Anthony Parker [who played together for Maccabi Tel Aviv] and I think they'll be successful in signing him to an offer sheet at least."

The Raptors are hopeful a two-year deal for about $3.8-million will be enough to pry Baston away from the Pacers, who would have 15 days to match any offer.

According to Mark Bartelstein, Baston's agent, the Raptors are one of several teams that have expressed interest in the player, who appeared in only 47 games for the Pacers last season.

The New Jersey Nets and Seattle SuperSonics have also made calls.

Let them have him for a 2nd round pick. No reason to tie up a roster spot at almost 2 mil per for a guy to play 500-600 minutes all season.

wintermute
07-10-2007, 12:35 AM
Let them have him for a 2nd round pick. No reason to tie up a roster spot at almost 2 mil per for a guy to play 500-600 minutes all season.

raptors don't have a 2nd round pick until 2011. the '08 one is owed to san antonio from the rasho deal and the '09 and '10 ones belong to detroit from the delfino deal.

i don't see us matching the contract.

LG33
07-10-2007, 12:43 AM
I hope he goes to the Nets - I'd like to see him once in a while. Plus, we could then trade O'Neal for him!

avoidingtheclowns
07-10-2007, 01:03 AM
i'd love to try and convince colangelo to send us calderon or garbajosa for baston

Hicks
07-10-2007, 01:16 AM
Joey Graham makes a bit less than 2mm. :shrug: Just a thought.

Oneal07
07-10-2007, 01:30 AM
It was only a matter of time. . If he comes to Toronto, Raps will be complete. . . But I'd rather have Baston in Indiana

sixthman
07-10-2007, 03:10 AM
Joey Graham makes a bit less than 2mm. :shrug: Just a thought.

Twins on the roster would be a nice conversation piece for Larry B.'s team and we need another small forward badly. :cool:

Y2J
07-10-2007, 04:45 AM
Don't need him, don't want him. So long Maceo.

NPFII
07-10-2007, 05:24 AM
Respect my authoritaaaa!!!

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=31621

So do I get some cookies or what?



Baston was seriously under-utilized by RC, and he'll prove it next year in Toronto...

Eindar
07-10-2007, 05:36 AM
Respect my authoritaaaa!!!

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?t=31621

So do I get some cookies or what?



Baston was seriously under-utilized by RC, and he'll prove it next year in Toronto...

Under-utilized? Sure. I don't know about "seriously under-utilized". Did you want him to get JO's minutes? Both Foster and Murphy are better at PF than Baston.

He's a decent backup PF. He's going to be like a Foster that can finish better but is a worse defender/rebounder. Somehow I have a feeling that I'm talking to air, though, as you obviously think anyone from Maccabi is the bees knees :)

NPFII
07-10-2007, 05:55 AM
No, not anyone, but there are 4 who were NBA-starting caliber 2-3 years ago:
Anthony Parker
Nikola Vujcic
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Maceo Baston

And to answer your question - I think Baston is better than or at least equal to Foster and Murphy at certain aspects like defense, finishing, running the floor, blocking shots, energy, basketball IQ, passing, pick-n-rolls, and many more.

I think he could've been 1st big off the bench before the GS trade (after JO & Foster, assuming Al plays Wing). Post-trade he could've been 2nd big off the bench (after JO, Foster, Murphy). If that was the situation - that would've been just regular under-utilization.

Now since Baston only played 47 games, considering all the injuries - that's serious under-utilization. He was 3rd-4th big off the bench pre- (Harrison) and post- (Ike) the GS trade, so his PT was garbage-time only.

You can argue that he "never played his way into the rotation", but then you have to say why that is true? When did he ever get the chance and disappoint?
But - were there other bigs who failed? Yes! So why wasn't Baston promoted up the rotation? The answer is no-balls-Rick. Pure and simple. He either didnt see "it" or didnt have the balls to yank one of his higher-paid guys to the bench.

BlueNGold
07-10-2007, 06:15 AM
No, not anyone, but there are 4 who were NBA-starting caliber 2-3 years ago:
Anthony Parker
Nikola Vujcic
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Maceo Baston

And to answer your question - I think Baston is better than or at least equal to Foster and Murphy at certain aspects like defense, finishing, running the floor, blocking shots, energy, basketball IQ, passing, pick-n-rolls, and many more.

I think he could've been 1st big off the bench before the GS trade (after JO & Foster, assuming Al plays Wing). Post-trade he could've been 2nd big off the bench (after JO, Foster, Murphy). If that was the situation - that would've been just regular under-utilization.

Now since Baston only played 47 games, considering all the injuries - that's serious under-utilization. He was 3rd-4th big off the bench pre- (Harrison) and post- (Ike) the GS trade, so his PT was garbage-time only.

You can argue that he "never played his way into the rotation", but then you have to say why that is true? When did he ever get the chance and disappoint?
But - were there other bigs who failed? Yes! So why wasn't Baston promoted up the rotation? The answer is no-balls-Rick. Pure and simple. He either didnt see "it" or didnt have the balls to yank one of his higher-paid guys to the bench.

I thought Baston was under utilized by RC as well, but Sarunas NBA starting calibre? You must be kidding.

Baston is probably the 2nd best shot blocker on the Pacers. He also plays pretty smart basketball and plays efficiently. I recall he could guard Rasheed Wallace quite well...something Murphy failed miserably at. No, he is not a good shooter...but for his price, he is far, far better than Troy.

Edit: I think the last phrase in your post is an important one. I truly believe the higher paid and sometimes the older players got the playing time with RC. For example, Ike would have been a good pairing with JO, but that was never tried much at all. Both of them can post up well. Both can hit the outside J. JO on the floor would take a lot of pressure off Ike in the post. It probably didn't fit into one of RC's rules...I just don't know which one.

Y2J
07-10-2007, 06:18 AM
Only Anthony Parker is starter-worthy from that list, and even he is a below average starter.

Unclebuck
07-10-2007, 06:22 AM
I like Baston a lot, but he doesn't really fit into O'Brien's system

Eindar
07-10-2007, 06:34 AM
Don't bring contract into the discussion. If you life depended on it, who gets minutes? For me, it's JO, then Foster, then Murphy, then probably Baston, then Ike.

However, putting Ike below Baston is unrealistic, because Ike has upside and is almost as good.

owl
07-10-2007, 06:52 AM
I like Baston a lot, but he doesn't really fit into O'Brien's system


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

Was not Baston the one who hit more than few threes and looked good
doing it? I guess if JO was going that would make Baston more important to the Pacers. I liked him because he was a good team player and provided
some excitement occasionally. If other teams are willing to sign him he must
have some value.

NPFII
07-10-2007, 07:04 AM
Only Anthony Parker is starter-worthy from that list, and even he is a below average starter.

1st of all - Parker:
You really havent seen many Raptors games, have you?

Parker is an ABOVE average (top-15) starting SG in this league (we can go team by team if you like), and for his salary ($4mil) he's probably top 5.

Is there ANY team in the league who wouldn't trade for Parker at 4mil/year?

2ndly - before last season you wouldve asked "Anthony who?", so that kinda makes your view not credible for the others (what do you know about Vujcic, for example?).

Seed
07-10-2007, 07:23 AM
1st of all - Parker:
You really havent seen many Raptors games, have you?

Parker is an ABOVE average (top-15) starting SG in this league (we can go team by team if you like), and for his salary ($4mil) he's probably top 5.

Is there ANY team in the league who wouldn't trade for Parker at 4mil/year?

2ndly - before last season you wouldve asked "Anthony who?", so that kinda makes your view not credible for the others (what do you know about Vujcic, for example?).
Word.

Unclebuck
07-10-2007, 07:24 AM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

Was not Baston the one who hit more than few threes and looked good
doing it? I guess if JO was going that would make Baston more important to the Pacers. I liked him because he was a good team player and provided
some excitement occasionally. If other teams are willing to sign him he must
have some value.

I liked him because he just knew how to play basketball. he knew how to help on defense, where to be on offense and his basketball IQ seemed very high - of course some of that might just be in comparison to Harrison who is awful in the IQ dept. and Ike who I hope is just still learning

Skaut_Ech
07-10-2007, 08:12 AM
I liked him because he just knew how to play basketball. he knew how to help on defense, where to be on offense and his basketball IQ seemed very high - of course some of that might just be in comparison to Harrison who is awful in the IQ dept. and Ike who I hope is just still learning

I'll tell ya, THAT is what I like most about him, is his IQ. Energy and IQ go a long way in this league. It's the difference in a Stromile Swift and any successfull PF in the league. I think Baston is a guy we need to have. Yes, I said need. Whether he gets a lot of PT or not, he's a great locker room guy and unselfish on the floor. I like him cause he's consistant, with steady minutes, and pretty reliable. I will really hate to see him go. I think he's one of those unsung guys that helps hold a team together in the sense of being a professional and a "team" guy. It's amazing to me how Maceo has gotten into some pretty tough situations in which to get some meaningful PT in his NBA career.


1st of all - Parker:
You really havent seen many Raptors games, have you? [That's exactly what I was thinking]

Parker is an ABOVE average (top-15) starting SG in this league (we can go team by team if you like), and for his salary ($4mil) he's probably top 5.

Is there ANY team in the league who wouldn't trade for Parker at 4mil/year?

2ndly - before last season you wouldve asked "Anthony who?", so that kinda makes your view not credible for the others (what do you know about Vujcic, for example?).

Yeah, I was pretty much thinking the same thing and amazed at Y2J spewing off about Parker, who's had a stellar year and has been lauded by his coach and management. The guy averaged 15 points and 5 boards for the season and has one of the top three point percentages in the league along with being a good defender. He went from being one of the top guys in Europe to a vital cog in the Raptors machine. The guy is a VERY good SG. I wouldn't blink twice at the chance to have him on our team.

owl
07-10-2007, 08:25 AM
I would agree he needs to be signed. On a team trying to win fans back Baston is one guy they should keep. Plus he can play the game.

diamonddave00
07-10-2007, 09:32 AM
I look at Maceo Baston at 31 has peaked out as far as how good he'll ever be. If this team is going to get better it will be thru development of Granger, Williams and Diogu, that being the case I am in favor of just letting Baston go.

I really don't see him getting any more minutes than last season barely played 1/2 the games and only averaged 8 minutes a night when he did play. Give those minutes to someone with upside.

Darrell Armstrong was in Orlando last yesterday, said he'd like to finish his career there , he may be on the way out too.

avoidingtheclowns
07-10-2007, 09:35 AM
I like Baston a lot, but he doesn't really fit into O'Brien's system

baston plays defense AND help defense. baston has a high basketball IQ. plays fast and with high energy. can shoot and hit the 3. he may be 31, but we're rumored to be talking to tony delk so obviously O'Brien won't be impacted by player age.

which part, if you don't mind me asking, doesn't fit into OBrien's system?

Speed
07-10-2007, 09:38 AM
Darrell Armstrong was in Orlando last yesterday, said he'd like to finish his career there , he may be on the way out too.


Wells said on the radio that he really doubted DA would be back. He said they should go after Magloire since Obie coached him as an asst in Kentucky. He said JO and Obie are really starting to talk and get ot know each other.

diamonddave00
07-10-2007, 09:52 AM
Thanks Speed was that on Greg Rakestraw's show? I knew Mike Wells would be on but missed it.

Unclebuck
07-10-2007, 10:05 AM
baston plays defense AND help defense. baston has a high basketball IQ. plays fast and with high energy. can shoot and hit the 3. he may be 31, but we're rumored to be talking to tony delk so obviously O'Brien won't be impacted by player age.

which part, if you don't mind me asking, doesn't fit into OBrien's system?

Outside shooting. OB likes power forwards who can shoot the three. That is why you will rarely see two of the following three players on the court at the same time. Jeff, JO, Ike. Those three will be teamed with a power forward who can shoot like Williams, Granger

avoidingtheclowns
07-10-2007, 10:10 AM
Outside shooting. OB likes power forwards who can shoot the three. That is why you will rarely see two of the following three players on the court at the same time. Jeff, JO, Ike. Those three will be teamed with a power forward who can shoot like Williams, Granger

but unlike JO, Jeff and Ike, baston CAN regularly hit the three. not as much as murphy no, but you put him in there with JO, and he can easily play on the perimeter take a three or drive to the basket. i trust him shooting that more than quis.

diamonddave00
07-10-2007, 11:58 AM
Baston was 3 of 7 on 3's spread out over 47 games means he hit a good percentage of the few he took, not sure that equals can regularly hit them over the course of a season.

They were all wide open ones , if teams expect him to shoot the 3 and guard him out there , can he make them on a consistant basis?

Speed
07-10-2007, 12:24 PM
Thanks Speed was that on Greg Rakestraw's show? I knew Mike Wells would be on but missed it.


It was, they talked Pacers for at least the 45 minutes it took me to get home.

Half of time just guys calling in, with not well thought out unsubstantiated rips on Bird, JO, Tinsley. Not that you can't rip on them, but one guy says.. and for that J. O. or you can call him Joe, whatever, he just needs to try to do better........ I was thinking to myself, ya, now that is someone who has thought this whole thing out!

Otherwise he said Tinsley is going nowhere, Obie likes him, cuz of off court stuff, and injury Hx, no surprise there and he doubted JO was going anywhere, contract size, finding a trading partner willing to give equal value. All stuff we all kinda think anyway.

Oh they had one good point, I thought, people would like JO alot more if he wasn't a Max player, said there are only a very few max players in the league, listed Kobe and Tim Duncan then said Lebron and D Wade will become Max guys.

avoidingtheclowns
07-10-2007, 12:31 PM
Baston was 3 of 7 on 3's spread out over 47 games means he hit a good percentage of the few he took, not sure that equals can regularly hit them over the course of a season.

They were all wide open ones , if teams expect him to shoot the 3 and guard him out there , can he make them on a consistant basis?

more so i imagine than ike, jeff or JO. and probably quis.

i would say that baston is comfortable enough with his game to not chuck 3s but to use his ability to shoot along with his ability to drive it to the hoop to be a productive backup.

mind you, i'm not arguing to keep him for that price, especially when we've got a bunch of bigs on the roster. i'm just challenging buck's point about him not fitting o'brien's system.

madison
07-10-2007, 09:23 PM
I liked Maceo's game on the rare occasions when Rick was 'forced' to play him. He never got a chance with the Pacers last season. A better coach would have at least let him play when we were losing games by the dozen. MB should have had all of Ike's minutes. I wish him well.

You know, I made this statement on this forum once before and it didn't go down well at the time. BUT, losing Maceo reminds me of something that bothered me all last season. It seemed like Rick handed out minutes based upon salary rather than who had a hot hand, the game situation or who seemed to have their head in the game. Maceo didn't have a big enough pay check to 'play' under the Carlise value system.

OK, blast away. Tell me I'm nuts for thinking that pay = PT when Rick was coach. But, before your fingers attack the keyboard, just think about it.

Hicks
07-10-2007, 09:45 PM
I think Maceo would make a great center in a small ball scheme like Nellie's.

Shade
07-10-2007, 10:50 PM
Under-utilized? Sure. I don't know about "seriously under-utilized". Did you want him to get JO's minutes? Both Foster and Murphy are better at PF than Baston.

I would take Baston over Murphy, even if they had the same contracts.

Unfortunately, acquiring the latter will make TPTB let the former walk.

BigMac
07-11-2007, 08:18 AM
I can't believe we're about to lose Baston. The world is coming to and end. Couple this with the discussions on getting Steve Blake for the MLE among other discussions I just don't think I can go on living.

Seriously, none of these guys is a game changer or a team changer. The Pacers need so much that with their cap situation as it currently is nothing outside of a major trade is going to improve this team other than the improvement that can be made with the existing core. I've noticed too much discussion about guys who will be the 12th to 15th man on the squad. They don't play, won't play, and really aren't worth the excitement that some show towards them but do merit worthy discussion. Losing Baston is not the end of the world. Remember the last time we took a bad team, got a new coach, and made a trade-a negative trade in most people's minds-that seemed minor? We ended up making the ECF. The ECF is weak and with some discipline this team could be pretty good with the youth. Williams, Granger, O'Neal, Dunleavy, Diogu, Daniels, Foster, and even Murphy, as well as a better attitude from Tinsley-not to mention more basketball smarts-and this team could be pretty good. That makes us potentially 9 deep. Add in Rush and we're possibly 10 deep. That's not too shabby. All they need to do is learn to play together and play hard and this city may fall in love with the Pacers again.

NapTonius Monk
07-11-2007, 09:15 AM
I liked Baston. He was a high energy guy who simply did good things when he was on the floor. Not much in the way of star potential, but you need guys like him on your team.

Speed
07-11-2007, 09:18 AM
I hope Obie actually has a semi set rotation, I think a guy like Baston could have been a consistent contributor. If not for injury and lack of role.

DeS
07-11-2007, 10:31 AM
Hopefully he stays and get his chance. Else there is no point of keeping him here.

JayRedd
07-11-2007, 10:51 AM
We need guards. I don't think we need to worry about a post player who's 5th on the depth chart. If we match it, cool. If not, cool.

Slick Pinkham
07-11-2007, 11:13 AM
Baston was 3 of 7 on 3's spread out over 47 games means he hit a good percentage of the few he took, not sure that equals can regularly hit them over the course of a season.

They were all wide open ones , if teams expect him to shoot the 3 and guard him out there , can he make them on a consistant basis?

I searched for his Euro league stats and the only season I could find ws 2003-2004:

http://www.basket-stats.info/euroleague/2003-2004/teams/maccabi.htm

He took ZERO 3-pointers the whole season. He was a 59% free-throw shooter, so it doesn't strike me that he would have the shooting stroke to be a threat from anywhere near the NBA line.

He also took a grand total of two 3's in four years of college ball at UM, making none.

Unless he has added this to his game int he last 3 years, he has no perimeter offense. That's fine by me since he shot a high percentage of his 2's in Euroleague and I like bigs shooting inside. Obie apparently thinks differently.

O'Brien wants guys to get up the court in 4 second. He can do that better than any big that we have, including JO, so if we really and truly want transition offense, he could add that for a second unit.

But if he leaves I am losing ZERO sleep over it.

GrangerRanger
07-11-2007, 10:58 PM
I dunno if this was posted yet in this thread but he signed the sheet to join them. I think the Pacers have a 15 day time limit to match the offer that they gave him. I hope we don't though.

pwee31
07-11-2007, 11:55 PM
yeah this is the thread. 2 years 3.8mil

RushToConclusions
07-12-2007, 02:19 PM
With Baston, the Raptors will win the championship! Mark my words.

blanket
07-18-2007, 02:12 PM
Any word on whether or not the Pacers are going to match the offer sheet on Baston?

I think the CBA affords 7 days to match, and the news reports said he signed on the 11th, so it seems to me that we should find out today. I think he'd be worth keeping, but if not I at least hope we can work a S&T to get _something_ for him.

:sigh:

avoidingtheclowns
07-18-2007, 04:03 PM
i don't think we can S&T once an offer sheet has been signed, we can either match or let him walk. could be wrong though

Robobtowncolt
07-18-2007, 04:05 PM
For that matter, I don't think you can S&T restricted free agents, but I could be totally making that up as part of my evil scheme to slowly change the CBA to what I want it to be.

aero
07-18-2007, 05:27 PM
another year, another Pacer heads to Toronto ...maybe.

Anthem
07-18-2007, 10:30 PM
another year, another Pacer heads to Toronto ...maybe.
Because it worked so well for Jack and Fred.

Mr. Sobchak
07-18-2007, 10:44 PM
Because it worked so well for Jack and Fred.

Oh i dunno..it worked pretty well for tony davis

Shade
07-18-2007, 10:52 PM
According to the Raptors board on RealGM, the Pacers have until noon tomorrow to match Maceo's offer sheet.

NuffSaid
07-19-2007, 10:24 AM
According to the Raptors board on RealGM, the Pacers have until noon tomorrow to match Maceo's offer sheet.
I though it was midnight on the 7th day following an offer that the original team had to match. Anyway, I hope the Pacers do retain him. I think Baston would do well under JOB's game plan, but per my alter ego's post on IndyStar's MB (http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3109037#post3109037) (aka RATS...still trying to figure out why it's referred as such), I'm not sure if there's room for him here. :(

Shade
07-19-2007, 10:31 AM
I though it was midnight on the 7th day following an offer that the original team had to match. Anyway, I hope the Pacers do retain him. I think Baston would do well under JOB's game plan, but per my alter ego's post on IndyStar's MB (http://www2.indystar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3109037#post3109037) (aka RATS...still trying to figure out why it's referred as such), I'm not sure if there's room for him here. :(

RATS is STAR backwards.

NuffSaid
07-19-2007, 10:36 AM
RATS is STAR backwards.
D'uh!!! I was wrackin' my brain trying to figure that out only to find it's so simple it goes over one's head! Thanks!!

Y2J
07-19-2007, 11:03 AM
We need to get Ike at least 25 mpg. With JO, Foster, Murphy, and possibly even Shawne and Granger all playing some PF, there was no room for Maceo.

ChicagoJ
07-19-2007, 11:29 AM
We need to get Ike at least 25 mpg. With JO, Foster, Murphy, and possibly even Shawne and Granger all playing some PF, there was no room for Maceo.

JO, Foster, and Ike won't be playing PF under O'Brien. They're all centers.

blanket
07-19-2007, 05:29 PM
So now we know

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/web_070719.html

Baston Out but Diener Reportedly In

Though Maceo Baston will not return to the Pacers, it appears the backup point guard slot has been stabilized with the reported contract agreement with free agent Travis Diener.

The Pacers opted not to match Toronto's offer sheet (reportedly $3.8 million over two seasons) on restricted free agent Baston, who'll now officially join the Raptors. Even without Baston, the team is relatively well-stocked in the frontcourt (Jermaine O'Neal, Jeff Foster, Troy Murphy, Ike Diogu, David Harrison) and has priorities elsewhere, specifically point guard.

"I like Maceo a lot," said Donnie Walsh, "but this time of year you have to make some tough choices, and we chose to let him go."

Baston averaged 8.6 minutes, 2.9 points and 1.6 rebounds in 47 appearances last season. He rejoins the Toronto team that gave him his first NBA opportunity in 2003.

Though the Pacers haven't confirmed the deal, The Indianapolis Star reported the agreement with Diener, who averaged 3.8 points and 1.0 assists in 49 games with the Magic the past two seasons. A 6-1, 175-pound sharpshooter who paired with Dwyane Wade to lead Marquette to the NCAA Final Four in 2003, Diener should get the chance to establish himself as a legitimate NBA backup with the Pacers.

We know he can shoot: fully 72 percent of his shots (107 of 149) have come from the 3-point line, and he's hit 40.2 percent.

diamonddave00
07-19-2007, 09:39 PM
Someone reported a Alston/Foster rumor on star site -did I miss something?

Kegboy
07-19-2007, 09:41 PM
Someone reported a Alston/Foster rumor on star site -did I miss something?

Check the Francis thread. Radio gossip out of Houston.