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View Full Version : Lakers-Pacers deal still lurking I think



LAKERERIC
07-07-2007, 12:01 PM
I've been visiting my brother in NYC and have been busy as hell. Guess no deal went down prior to the draft, but I would not discount it, yet. After July 1, Brian Cook's salary went up to a bit over 3 million, which will help. The Lakers also obtained Crittenton, which, along with their inevitable guard signing (Fisher), will allow them to trade either Farmar or Crittenton, probably Crittenton. The Lakers also probably would want back Harrison, particularly if Mihm leaves. In fact, Mihm leaving would signify to me that this deal maybe will not happen, because JO would play center, and would not have a backup because Kwame is in the deal. That being said, I'll assume the Lakers sign Mihm, for argument's sake. I see the trade as follows:

Crittenton, Kwame, Cook, Bynum, 2009 #1, and either Mo Evans or Aaron McKie (he will retire and the Lakers will cash you out for it)

for

JO, Harrison

You get a starting PG and a starting C for possibly the next 10 years. I am a Lakers fan, and there are some out there even with Kobe's *****ing that want to stand pat. I don't. The other big deal the Lakers may make would be this:

Kwame, Bynum, Odom, Evans or McKie, 2009 #1

for

KG, Blount

Basically, assumming the Lakers had both deals on the table, the 1-3 positions are the same. Basically, you have to ask whether you would rather have Blount and KG, or Lamar and JO. To me, I would take Lamar and JO, but that can be argued, too. The Pacers have to be wary of the decent possibility that JO may opt out if the team fails to qualify this year. And I don't believe his value will be higher as the deadline approaches. Now, JO has his normal value. His value will not get higher, but maybe it could lower. If they deal him, now would be the time. If I were Bird or Walsh I would deal him, and as a Laker fan I am pleased that we at least can put a very solid offer like this on the table for a top 20 NBA player in JO.

indyman37
07-07-2007, 12:03 PM
I'd take the first deal in a heartbeat.

LAKERERIC
07-07-2007, 12:16 PM
It all depends on what the Lakers truly think of Bynum's upside. Also, the Lakers I think have a slight fantasy of keeping Bynum, and getting KG or JO for the full MLE because they have made lots of money and want to play in LA. Possible, but not likely. Bynum is talented, but he is a few years away from being what the Lakers need. But maybe I am wrong, because Kobe came on strong in his third year. This is tough for the Lakers, too, because the Lakers would have some size issues after this deal. That is why signing Mihm and getting Harrison is a must. And I also think having Turiaf, who can play with KG or JO, is nice for the Lakers. This deal is a distinct possibility.

BlueNGold
07-07-2007, 12:30 PM
It all depends on what the Lakers truly think of Bynum's upside. Also, the Lakers I think have a slight fantasy of keeping Bynum, and getting KG or JO for the full MLE because they have made lots of money and want to play in LA. Possible, but not likely. Bynum is talented, but he is a few years away from being what the Lakers need. But maybe I am wrong, because Kobe came on strong in his third year. This is tough for the Lakers, too, because the Lakers would have some size issues after this deal. That is why signing Mihm and getting Harrison is a must. And I also think having Turiaf, who can play with KG or JO, is nice for the Lakers. This deal is a distinct possibility.

That's not fantasy, that's insanity. Neither JO nor KG will play for the MLE anytime during the next 5 years.

I think your best bet is to keep Lamar and get JO somehow. JO + Odom > KG. Also, I agree that KG is better than JO overall, but JO is definitely the better interior defender and if you lose size in the paint, JO is going to help more.

BTW, I would take the first trade and if offered I think JO will be traded...either that deal or NJ...or something else. Already I think Krstic and Jefferson will get it done because we will need to move JO under the circumstances....but we are not nearly as desperate as LA. We can keep JO for months, even into february of next year and still get back value.

SoupIsGood
07-07-2007, 12:44 PM
I'd take the first deal in a heartbeat.

Q:

Why do you want both Bynum and Thabeet? Aren't they both Centers?

indyman37
07-07-2007, 12:46 PM
Q:

Why do you want both Bynum and Thabeet? Aren't they both Centers?
idk really. I wanted Thabeet before Bynum. So I guess Thabeet is a backup plan now.

Edit: Now it should make more sense.

SoupIsGood
07-07-2007, 01:01 PM
How good do you think Thabeet will be? He is awfully interesting.

Kegboy
07-07-2007, 01:02 PM
Okay, great! I'm gonna call Donnie right now and tell him to pull the trigger!

:rollout:

I miss the CPK's.

SoupIsGood
07-07-2007, 01:04 PM
Okay, great! I'm gonna call Donnie right now and tell him to pull the trigger!

:rollout:

I miss the CPK's.

Haha, yeah. I think it's become pretty obvious that we aren't trading w/ LA unless they offer AB and LO. IMO, we would have already pulled the trigger if we were going to accept less.

Kegboy
07-07-2007, 01:13 PM
People rail against our tyrannical admins, but if it were up to me I'd create a "Laker troll thread" and throw all these guys in there. It's getting pathetic.

SoupIsGood
07-07-2007, 01:15 PM
People rail against our tyrannical admins, but if it were up to me I'd create a "Laker troll thread" and throw all these guys in there. It's getting pathetic.

Yeah, I just ran into the "We are the LAKERS and we DESERVE TO BE GOOD" thread while searching the archives a little while ago...

blanket
07-07-2007, 02:18 PM
Okay, great! I'm gonna call Donnie right now and tell him to pull the trigger!

:rollout:

I miss the CPK's.

California Pizza Kitchen?

:hungry:

Roaming Gnome
07-07-2007, 02:25 PM
:deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors:deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors

That deal is as dead as these horses. Go bug Grizz fans about Gasol, maybe they are interested in your trash!

LAKERERIC
07-07-2007, 03:30 PM
The only reason Laker trolls like myself (but a wise troll) bother you guys is we all love basketball and want to try to see what may happen. Let's face it: We all want the GM jobs for the Pacers or Lakers if we are fans. That is our fantasy. Obviously, with Kobe in the prime of his career, the Lakers are in a position where they have a very talented, but very young center, a young and very talented guard, expiring contracts, and will kick in a draft pick or two. Obviously, the Lakers are in win now mode, which guarantees them nothing. The Pacers, with Granger, Bynum, Crittenton, Williams, Diagu, and Daniels is a nice young core that should be 3-4 years away from being a legitimate threat to win the east. I hate it when fans of any team come with stupidity. If they come with legitimate, intelligent thoughts, then I listen. I will be honest, one of the reasons I come to these boards is I am tired of the some of the rantings of Lakers fans against Kupchak and for Kobe. It gets tiresome, because I am in the minority in saying Kupchak has done a nice job assembling young talent under difficult circumstances. My point is this trade is a legitimate possibility, which is why it is worth discussing. I put Bynum in the Mutombo, Smits, Divac, Parish, Dougherty mold of centers. I think he will be a 15-10-3 guy for a long time. Some Lakers fans think more of him, but I think that is what he is. Crittenton seems to have lots of talent, but I cannot compare him to anyone. You get the salary throw ins with McKie and Kwame, along with Cook, but you also get another #1. The trade does make a lot of sense for both teams, and I say that as unobjectively as I can.

LAKERERIC
07-07-2007, 03:32 PM
I meant objectively! Slip...

speakout4
07-07-2007, 03:51 PM
The only reason Laker trolls like myself (but a wise troll) bother you guys is we all love basketball and want to try to see what may happen. Let's face it: We all want the GM jobs for the Pacers or Lakers if we are fans. That is our fantasy. Obviously, with Kobe in the prime of his career, the Lakers are in a position where they have a very talented, but very young center, a young and very talented guard, expiring contracts, and will kick in a draft pick or two. Obviously, the Lakers are in win now mode, which guarantees them nothing. The Pacers, with Granger, Bynum, Crittenton, Williams, Diagu, and Daniels is a nice young core that should be 3-4 years away from being a legitimate threat to win the east. I hate it when fans of any team come with stupidity. If they come with legitimate, intelligent thoughts, then I listen. I will be honest, one of the reasons I come to these boards is I am tired of the some of the rantings of Lakers fans against Kupchak and for Kobe. It gets tiresome, because I am in the minority in saying Kupchak has done a nice job assembling young talent under difficult circumstances. My point is this trade is a legitimate possibility, which is why it is worth discussing. I put Bynum in the Mutombo, Smits, Divac, Parish, Dougherty mold of centers. I think he will be a 15-10-3 guy for a long time. Some Lakers fans think more of him, but I think that is what he is. Crittenton seems to have lots of talent, but I cannot compare him to anyone. You get the salary throw ins with McKie and Kwame, along with Cook, but you also get another #1. The trade does make a lot of sense for both teams, and I say that as unobjectively as I can.
I'll be a lot happier if we do the NJ trade and get two starters. What LA offers is a lot of maybes and the only one who isn't a maybe, Odom, they want to keep.

LAKERERIC
07-07-2007, 03:57 PM
To show my objectivity I will tell you: If the NJ deal is on the table, you should do it! Absolutely. My opinion, and I can definitely be wrong, is that the Nets would not do that deal. The guy they drafted is a shot blocker and a rebounder, and Kristic was out last year and they still made a run. The Kidd-Jefferson chemistry is great, and I do not believe the Nets would do that. If they would, I would defintely take it as a Pacer fan. If Odom and Bynum were offered I'd take that, but as a Laker fan, that is too much for JO, but not for KG. KG is a top 10 player, JO top 20. The difference between the Min. trade and the Laker trade in the original post is the difference between Odom and Crittenton. I think that the Pacers should committ to the rebuild and would almost want Critttenton instead of Odom, considering their need for young, backcourt help, but I am probably wrong on that one because Odom is an established 15-10-5 assist guy.

Rajah Brown
07-07-2007, 04:10 PM
I'm w/ Indyman37. I'd do the Bynum-Brown-Critt, etc. deal as soon
as Crittenden can be moved (July 29, I assume).

The problem w/ the NJ deal is that while both are solid players, it
only adds to the grossly unbalanced roster we already have and
adds a player/presumed starter at both SF and PF in front of
both highly (and over) paid guys in Duns and Murphy and
youngsters in Granger, Williams and Diogu who need minutes,
touches, etc. to progress.

If Dunleavy and Murphy were tradeable, it'd be a different story.
But that's a longshot at best.

Kegboy
07-07-2007, 04:40 PM
California Pizza Kitchen?

:hungry:

Cabbage Patch Kids. (Sarunas fanboys, before anybody asks.)

Hicks
07-07-2007, 04:52 PM
Eric, there's an edit button if you catch things like that in your post. :)

avoidingtheclowns
07-07-2007, 04:56 PM
:deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors :deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors:deadhorse :2deadhors :3deadhors


what exactly are you trying to say?

Y2J
07-07-2007, 05:17 PM
Guys, it's CrittenTON nor CrittenDEN. Nothing major, just a small pet peeve.

There's been no news on this deal in quite a while. Normally you'd think that means it's dead, but knowing how the Pacers work, that probably means it's more alive than ever.

indygeezer
07-07-2007, 05:30 PM
I've been outta town for a few days and the Oakland Press doesn't give one hoot for Pacer news. Actually, the P's coulda traded for Kobe and it prolly would take a back seat to local Golf coverage. ;)

Anyway, if I'm betting, I'm betting this goes on thru the summer and then we accept the NJ deal or some such right before training camp.

sixthman
07-07-2007, 05:59 PM
Pacers could send David Harrison to the Lakers.

Why is the pick an '09 pick? Lakers haven't traded their '08 pick, have they?

idioteque
07-07-2007, 07:58 PM
How good do you think Thabeet will be? He is awfully interesting.

I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but to be Thabeet is Dikembe Mutumbo with a little more offense. I think this guy will have a long and successful career in the NBA. He's a somewhat better Mutumbo and a MUCH better Ben Wallace.

The problem with Thabeet is that he's almost an essential player to you winning if you have him because his defense prowess would be otherwise severly missed, but he STILL will never be anyone's #1 scoring option. He'll be best of complimented with a high scoring wing.

If you get a good distributor at PG, a couple of high scoring, hard nosed wings like Williams and Granger, and an anchor in the middle like Thabeet, well then you're in quite good shape.

You'd also want a nice outside shooter. Kareem Rush maybe?

indyman37
07-07-2007, 10:51 PM
How good do you think Thabeet will be? He is awfully interesting.
If we had a decent big man coach, any for that matter, I believe he could become a really dominant center in the league. He is a freak of nature athletically and a raw talent just waiting to be developed.

CableKC
07-08-2007, 03:02 AM
Crittenton, Kwame, Cook, Bynum, 2009 #1, and either Mo Evans or Aaron McKie (he will retire and the Lakers will cash you out for it)

for

JO, Harrison
Figure out a way to remove Cook from the equation, change the 1st round pick to the 2008 1st round pick, include MoEvans, add a player or some other trading asset that does not add to our salarycap and I would possibly consider it. If this means waiting for Crittenton to be signed and allowed to be moved....then I am fine with that.

I don't want Cook......adding him to the trade lessens benefits that we get from the Kwame's expiring Contract ( Cook is owed 3.5 mil a year for the next 3 years ). Correct me if I am wrong....but 3.5 mil a year added to our current salary cap can limit options that we have to add some backup player next season.

Peck
07-08-2007, 04:08 AM
Figure out a way to remove Cook from the equation, change the 1st round pick to the 2008 1st round pick, include MoEvans, add a player or some other trading asset that does not add to our salarycap and I would possibly consider it. If this means waiting for Crittenton to be signed and allowed to be moved....then I am fine with that.

I don't want Cook......adding him to the trade lessens benefits that we get from the Kwame's expiring Contract ( Cook is owed 3.5 mil a year for the next 3 years ). Correct me if I am wrong....but 3.5 mil a year added to our current salary cap can limit options that we have to add some backup player next season.

Totally depends on what kind of player you want to add.

I would argue that Brian Cook would be a good backup power forward and emergency center.

Don't look to play the money game to much, free agency will either be there or it won't and with our clubs history I would venture to say it won't.

So I'd rather have the players right now instead of money in the future that we may never be able to use.

But I think I agree with you about getting a # 1 pick in 08. At first I thought about holding off and taking the 09 pick but I think your right there, let's get this upcoming pick instead.

Will Galen
07-08-2007, 04:38 AM
But I think I agree with you about getting a # 1 pick in 08. At first I thought about holding off and taking the 09 pick but I think your right there, let's get this upcoming pick instead.

I would want a 2008, or a 2013 when hopefully the Laker's would be in the Lottery.

gng930
07-08-2007, 11:06 AM
Laker fan here -

You don't want Cook, soft big man who does nothing but shoot. Threw his warmups at Phil Jackson's feet at one point this season. He's easily my least favorite player on the team. Troy Murphy does the exact same but gives you rebounding and some interior strength.

Your best bet is Mo and Sasha - both expiring, both will get minutes. Although Sasha won't contribute as much as Brian Cook, but he's about $9 million cheaper. The Lakers would probably try to push McKie instead of Mo though. In the end, I doubt they hold out for Mo.

mike_D
07-08-2007, 11:08 AM
I would want a 2008, or a 2013 when hopefully the Laker's would be in the Lottery.

Presuming we keep our pick for the next draft we will have a high lottery, i would be more then willing to aquire 1st round picks down the road. not having a 2008 first round pick from LA isn't a deal breaker.

purplengoldjonez
07-08-2007, 01:23 PM
this deal wont get done. The lakers wont part with both bynum and LO. The pacers wont do the deal without both included. I aslo have serious doubts that NJ will actually part with both Kristic and Jefferson. If that was the case then why hasnt management pulled the trigger. That deal is better than odom and bynum IMO.

sweabs
07-08-2007, 01:44 PM
this deal wont get done. The lakers wont part with both bynum and LO. The pacers wont do the deal without both included. I aslo have serious doubts that NJ will actually part with both Kristic and Jefferson. If that was the case then why hasnt management pulled the trigger. That deal is better than odom and bynum IMO.
First of all, I don't believe that the proposed Jefferson/Krstic deal is better than Odom/Bynum.

Second of all, addressing your question as to why hasn't management pulled the trigger on the NJ deal. The simple fact that Jersey is another Eastern Conference team probably has a lot to do with things. I'm sure we'd rather send Jermaine to a team in the West than have to face him 4 times/year plus potential playoff games in the East.

Raskolnikov
07-08-2007, 02:28 PM
Second of all, addressing your question as to why hasn't management pulled the trigger on the NJ deal. The simple fact that Jersey is another Eastern Conference team probably has a lot to do with things. I'm sure we'd rather send Jermaine to a team in the West than have to face him 4 times/year plus potential playoff games in the East.
Actually, I've always wondered why teams are so scared to send their (best) players to a team in the same conference. I thought a trade is all about making your own team better, who cares if you have to face your former star player more often?

Btw, good to see you posting again, Scott :cheers:

OnlyPacersLeft
07-08-2007, 03:05 PM
lol it's dead...stop holding onto false hope. Kobes gone..hahha

Doug
07-08-2007, 03:08 PM
I don't particularly like the NJ deal. In fact, I think it sucks. Maybe I'm undervaluing RJ, and putting too much emphasis on Kristic's knee surgery.

But what it comes down to is that RJ is yet another 2/3. So, if we make that deal, we have to trade two of Granger/Williams/Dunleavy. Not that I'm particularly in love with any of those three, but we're already unbalanced and that trade makes it worse - and it's harder to work out mulitple trades than it is one.

NuffSaid
07-08-2007, 03:08 PM
I'd take the first deal in a heartbeat.
So, let me get this straight...

You'd trade a solid post-presence in JO and a decent big man who can shoot from the floor despite his foul troubles for: 1 "unproven" rookie (Crittenton), 1 player who just had two surgeries over the summer to date (Kwame), 1 post-player who has barely broken out of his rookie shell (Omar Cook), a post-player who barely plays at JO's level (Odom), and a future draft pick?

No thanks!

gng930
07-08-2007, 03:17 PM
The reason Indy hasn't already taken NJ's deal is pretty simple - RJ's contract doesn't end until 2011 and his best position is SF.

Why would Indy want to invest that much in another SF, when Granger is one of their cornerstones, Williams has shown flashes, and they're already overpaying for another small forward in Mike Dunleavy.

Pigeon-holing RJ at SG might make them playoff contenders but the worst position you could put a franchise in is perennial 1st/2nd round fodder - not good enough to contend, but too good to get a good lottery pick - that's basically the same position the Lakers are in. What's worse, they be as such with a bloated payroll.

Personally, I'd rather win 1 championship and go lottery for 4 years then wallow in that situation for 5 years.

Make the deal for Bynum, Crit, future pick, and expiring Ks and you'll be 10mil under the cap next summer to go along with a talented young core. I've also heard rumors that you intend to deal Foster for an expiring K and pick. Do that and you'll be 15mil under instead.

avoidingtheclowns made a point that Indy is a hard place to sell FAs on, but you could always do what Charlotte (for J-Rich) and ATL almost did (for Amare) by taking back extra salary in a trade. So not only do you put yourself in position to be a player in one of the best FA classes in years, but you could instead consume a large contract from a team trying to clear cap-space to score one of those FAs.

CableKC
07-08-2007, 09:15 PM
Laker fan here -

You don't want Cook, soft big man who does nothing but shoot. Threw his warmups at Phil Jackson's feet at one point this season. He's easily my least favorite player on the team. Troy Murphy does the exact same but gives you rebounding and some interior strength.

Your best bet is Mo and Sasha - both expiring, both will get minutes. Although Sasha won't contribute as much as Brian Cook, but he's about $9 million cheaper. The Lakers would probably try to push McKie instead of Mo though. In the end, I doubt they hold out for Mo.
Tx for the input. What are your thoughts on Crittenton? If we bypass going for Odom....which means we are going for the complete rebuild...I would much rather have him over Farmar. I have read from several Laker posters that suggest that he would definitely fit in the Triangle offense.....but do you think that he would be a major hurdle that the Lakers would put up in any negotiations?

I suspect that the Lakers would prefer ( as you suggest ) to push Cook, McKie and/or Farmar instead of Crittenton and MoEvans......both players that I suspect the Pacers would want ( Crittenton...for the obvious upside and MoEvans mainly cuz of his Expiring Contract ).

bballpacen
07-08-2007, 10:12 PM
I still am not willing to cave in from LO and Bynum. There are not enough attractive pieces that I would want that I would move JO for.

indyman37
07-08-2007, 11:00 PM
So, let me get this straight...

You'd trade a solid post-presence in JO and a decent big man who can shoot from the floor despite his foul troubles for: 1 "unproven" rookie (Crittenton), 1 player who just had two surgeries over the summer to date (Kwame), 1 post-player who has barely broken out of his rookie shell (Omar Cook), a post-player who barely plays at JO's level (Odom), and a future draft pick?

No thanks!
I just liked the deal cause we got Bynum and Crittenton, dang. Kwame is an expiring contract anyways so who cares about him. That and I've never liked Harrison. And now I'm to the point where I almost feel sorry for JO having to play here, even though I know I shouldn't be.

gng930
07-08-2007, 11:16 PM
Tx for the input. What are your thoughts on Crittenton? If we bypass going for Odom....which means we are going for the complete rebuild...I would much rather have him over Farmar. I have read from several Laker posters that suggest that he would definitely fit in the Triangle offense.....but do you think that he would be a major hurdle that the Lakers would put up in any negotiations?

I suspect that the Lakers would prefer ( as you suggest ) to push Cook, McKie and/or Farmar instead of Crittenton and MoEvans......both players that I suspect the Pacers would want ( Crittenton...for the obvious upside and MoEvans mainly cuz of his Expiring Contract ).

I honestly haven't seen enough of Crit to make an assessment. He seems to have to tools to be a star in the league and that is consistent with many of the posts that I've read about him. Make no mistake...he is going to be a project.

As for the triangle, he is a perfect fit because of his size and because he ran it throughout high-school. As you can see, he has more experience with it than most of the Laker squad.

I'm not sure where the org stands on Farmar VS Crit. They'd probably need to get a good look at them during the SPL and training camp to make a final decision. I know that Farmar's performance in the SPL last year was a pleasant surprise. Crit clearly has greater potential, but Farmar seems to have better point-guard instincts.

If Indy insists on Crit, then it comes down to Odom VS Crit for the Lakers in which case it is no contest. Personally, I'd make the same decision.

As for Mo, I don't think the Lakers turn down the deal just to keep him. They will definitely try to push McKie instead until the final hour though.

It will also come down to Cook VS Sasha. I hate both since neither can play a lick of defense, but at least Sasha tries. Cook has a bad attitude and the fact that they gave him that extension continues to bother me to this day. Still, for some reason, Phil and the rest of the org has a man crush on who I consider to be the tallest (and slowest) shooting guard in the league. The team would probably rather send out Sasha, but if you want Cook instead he's all yours.

denyfizle
07-08-2007, 11:37 PM
might as well just wait and see how JO performs under JoB.

The_Showtime
07-09-2007, 02:17 AM
I have a feeling the longer the Pacers drag out this deal any longer, it eventually hurts the Pacers more than the Lakers. The Lakers already have a second thought about moving Andrew Bynum. Bynum already shows sign of improving. He had been working out daily, which impress the Lakers FO. As of right now, the Lakers will only move Andrew Bynum for KG, because that is the only way of keeping Kobe. Dr. Buss willing to give up on Bynum if it means to keep Kobe. JO is not the player that makes Kobe take back his trade demand, which I think will hurt the Pacers chance of acquiring Bynum or make a deal happens.

Hicks
07-09-2007, 04:26 AM
The longer this drags out, the less likely it ever happens.

The_Showtime
07-09-2007, 09:12 AM
The Lakers-Pacers are waiting for the official day of free agent signing (July 11) to start making deal. I know the deal between the Lakers/Pacers already reach to a point of Bynum/Kwame/Farmar/Fillers. But the Pacers want to wait for the Lakers to make a sweepstake at KG. If they can't, then certainly the Lakers would deal with Pacers with the given deal in place. Why? Simply because Walsh has a man crush on Andrew Bynum! He wants Bynum more than any other JO's deals. You guys are in much more disadvantage position at this point than we are. Kobe already shows sign of playing through frutration, meanwhile the Lakers have a bright future with Bynum and J-Crit. And the Lakers still have the MLE (possibly signing Darko, Mo William due to the lack of teams under the salary cap). Not many team can afford signing those players over the cap, therefore the Lakers have a bigger chance of signing them more than anyone else. Sad, but the Pacers make a first bad move when the Lakers are willing to offer Bynum/Brown including 19th pick but they lost their chance to acquring 2 special players Bynum/J-Crit (19th pick). Hahaha. I'm glad we keep the 19th pick! Damn you never know what we get with the lottery pick. WOW AMAZING!

Tom White
07-09-2007, 09:30 AM
You guys are in much more disadvantage position at this point than we are.

Here's a dollar. Go buy a clue.

Mourning
07-09-2007, 09:33 AM
Here's a dollar. Go buy a clue.

Seconded!

LAKERERIC
07-09-2007, 11:36 AM
It is possible that the Lakers would not do the deal, while it is also possible the Pacers would not. Because of JOs opt out after the season, I guess the Pacers are in a more difficult situation than the Lakers. Kobe's opt out is after 09, when guys like Crittenton, Farmar, Turiaf, Bynum will be hopefully peaking and ready to blossom alongside Lamar and Kobe, with guys like Nash and Duncan being a bit older. Or do the Lakers strike for a veteran now? KG may be what they want, or are holding out for. If that falls through, maybe they would do a JO deal if Indi is willing or maybe they just stay as is. But the Pacers do face a tough predicament, because they probably are not a playoff team as is. What playoff team last year will the Pacers supplant? Not sure. So, unless you think either JO will not opt out, or you want to chance it and see if the team impresses him enough to stay, then it is risky for the Pacers not to deal him. Much riskier than it is for the Lakers to not do the deal, because of Kobe's opt out coming a year later and the fact that guys like Crittenton and Bynum may be guys that will make the Lakers very happy in the next 3-4 years. The one thing I can say with supreme confidence is that if a deal goes down it will not include Odom.

esabyrn333
07-09-2007, 11:45 AM
If the P's keep JO they will be at minimum the 6th seed in the east. The team last year gave up on the coach. Mark my words people around here are going to be shocked at how well this team plays with or without JO on the court. JOB is going to improve every aspect of each players game on this team. Rick was not a players coach and had some serious problems with his people skills. This team is going to be sharper and more in shape then we have seen in years. Remember this post. We are going to make some noise in the east.

Rajah Brown
07-09-2007, 11:49 AM
Eric-

Are you forgetting which conference you're in ? Even with everyone
healthy, you guys will struggle to win over 45-46 games next year
and be lucky to grab the 5th or 6th seed. And there is no way that
Bynum and Crittenton will be where they need to be to appease Kobe
in 2 years.

I'd say the risk is about equal on both sides. But I've changed my mind.
I seriously doubt a deal ever gets done between LA and the Pacers. I
just don't think that, in the end, the LA front office is gonna be willing
to part with Bynum.

I hope I'm wrong.

avoidingtheclowns
07-09-2007, 11:54 AM
well there are serious questions as to whether JO would opt out. i tend to think he would, like bibby, not opt out strictly from a financial standpoint. the only way he might is if he is A) willing to play for the MLE / vet minimum or B) believes that he could still command a $13-15mil/yr deal from some team. the second option became less likely when the knicks traded for randolph thats the one team i could see willing to pay that for JO. i would say its much more likely that if he hasn't already (behind closed doors) that he'd demand a trade long before he would choose to opt out. so i don't think there is any real danger in holding on to him as opposed to dealing right now... if the laker deal is crap we shouldn't just take it and be happy we got rid of the guy. he's a franchise player (whether he should be or is meant to be) and the pacers need to be adequately compensated.

The_Showtime
07-09-2007, 12:07 PM
Eric-

Are you forgetting which conference you're in ? Even with everyone
healthy, you guys will struggle to win over 45-46 games next year
and be lucky to grab the 5th or 6th seed. And there is no way that
Bynum and Crittenton will be where they need to be to appease Kobe
in 2 years.

I'd say the risk is about equal on both sides. But I've changed my mind.
I seriously doubt a deal ever gets done between LA and the Pacers. I
just don't think that, in the end, the LA front office is gonna be willing
to part with Bynum.

I hope I'm wrong.

I think you forgot that prior to all the injuries occured to our key players, we were battling for a top 5 seat in the West. I don't see why we can't make a top 6 seat if we all stay healthy. The key is the healthy part. Of the past 3 seasons (post Shaq's era), our team was never healthy for once. First year, Kobe and LO were injure respectively, then 2nd year, Mihm was out for season, with Kobe having shoulder injury, and Kwame (well o well, he is a injury prone anyway). Then third year, Luke/LO/Kwame out for a good junk amount of times.

We certainly are capable of making the playoff and now adding a bright future with an improving Bynum and a surprising talent J-Crit, I can't see why we can't compete long down the road even without Kobe.

We're in a much better situation than the Pacers than you think. Kobe or without Kobe, our team will eventually be contender. We have the option to either compete for championship now with Kobe or the future with Bynum. That is a good option to have if you are a Lakers FO.

Kegboy
07-09-2007, 12:24 PM
I still don't get why the Lakers want JO if they're so great. I mean, from 20 feet away Kwame looks just like him. You can just squint and pretend you took him off our hands in an S&T for Smush Parker, and he was so greatful he gave back half his salary.

The_Showtime
07-09-2007, 12:36 PM
I still don't get why the Lakers want JO if they're so great. I mean, from 20 feet away Kwame looks just like him. You can just squint and pretend you took him off our hands in an S&T for Smush Parker, and he was so greatful he gave back half his salary.
We want JO because he will be a great anchor that we're desperately needed. Our team sucks on the defensive end because we don't have any interior defender to block shot. Bynum is not ready for that, and Kwame is too injury prone to develop any type of anchor defense that we need.

We hate JO's contract for sure, but he is a safe bet for the Lakers to be a contender if we have Kobe/JO/LO as the main piece. The point of our deal is we don't want to overpay for JO just because most people thought the Lakers are desperate to make a deal. No that is not the case, I can tell you that. We only make a deal if it takes us to a next level immediately. We won't make a deal because of Kobe nor because we can't make the playoff. JO is a risk acquisition because of his huge contract, but it's the risk that we're willing to take to bring us closer to that championship level. If we stand pat right now and add a couple key piece through free agency, we'll make the playoff while developing our young guys. And if Kobe decides to not be a part of it (he has his reason and I respect that), then we can ship Kobe to where he wants and receive some salary cap space and young players to develop with our draft players. Like I said, our option looks bright right now. This all change due to Kobe showing sign of willing to stay and of course a steal in J-Crit through the draft. YAH!

Kegboy
07-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Kwame is too injury prone

And...you lost me.

JayRedd
07-09-2007, 12:45 PM
And...you lost me.

I always thought the problem was just that he wasn't any good at playing basketball.

ilive4sports
07-09-2007, 12:48 PM
Wait so your basically saying a future of Bynum and J-Critt is brighter than Kobe and Jermaine? Thats what it really comes down to. Kobe is one of the best players ever and Jermaine is nothing to sneeze at either(not saying he is one of the best ever at all). Bynum is still a huge question mark in my mind and this season is his make or break year. J-Critt hasnt even played in a real NBA game. Honestly if the Lakers want to make a run at a championship in the next ten years you will have a better chance with JO and Kobe than Bynum and J-Critt. If you dont agree then well your in denial.

The_Showtime
07-09-2007, 12:58 PM
Dude, we pay our $$$ to watch the Lakers, so saying we is the right thing. It means the Lakers and the fans are really close. Lakers fan are one of the best in the NBA because we CARE about the team.

@JO4MVP2006 - Nah, it would be Bynum, J-Crit, and whoever we get back in return for Kobe, and a couple free agents signing when we have cap space after moving Kobe. But yeah, the smart choice to win now with Kobe/JO but if the Pacers don't want to deal with us, it is not the end of the world for us is what I'm trying to get the point across. We'll be alright. We never experience rebuilding before but I know some are ready for that in case it did happens.

Oh regarding the Kwame Brown. He is good player to have at center. He is one of the best low post defender in the NBA because he has foot quickness to stay in front of big men and the strength. He is injury prone though and that hurts the Lakers. I'm sorry but if Kwame stays healthy, he can puts up 13/8. JO is obviously injury prone too but at least, with Kobe taking the shoulder off him a bit, he'll be fine.

The_Showtime
07-09-2007, 01:05 PM
Is this Chauncey or that kid from Rats from like 10 years ago?
What are you talking about? :laugh: You mean J-Crit? He has the potential to be Chauncey type player if you ask me. Remember Chauncey was a nobody until he got to Detroit.

JayRedd
07-09-2007, 01:13 PM
Dude, we pay our $$$ to watch the Lakers, so saying we is the right thing. It means the Lakers and the fans are really close. Lakers fan are one of the best in the NBA because we CARE about the team.

Yeah. You guys are the best. Real diehards out in LA that support the team and by no means just show up at the arena because it's the cool thing to do.

I mean, just look at how the diehards CARED in the post-Magic years and supported Nick Van Exel and Company. What a fantastic swan-song yall gave Big Game James.

http://www.databasebasketball.com/teams/teamatt.htm?tm=lal&lg=n

ilive4sports
07-09-2007, 01:38 PM
Dude, we pay our $$$ to watch the Lakers, so saying we is the right thing. It means the Lakers and the fans are really close. Lakers fan are one of the best in the NBA because we CARE about the team.

@JO4MVP2006 - Nah, it would be Bynum, J-Crit, and whoever we get back in return for Kobe, and a couple free agents signing when we have cap space after moving Kobe. But yeah, the smart choice to win now with Kobe/JO but if the Pacers don't want to deal with us, it is not the end of the world for us is what I'm trying to get the point across. We'll be alright. We never experience rebuilding before but I know some are ready for that in case it did happens.

Oh regarding the Kwame Brown. He is good player to have at center. He is one of the best low post defender in the NBA because he has foot quickness to stay in front of big men and the strength. He is injury prone though and that hurts the Lakers. I'm sorry but if Kwame stays healthy, he can puts up 13/8. JO is obviously injury prone too but at least, with Kobe taking the shoulder off him a bit, he'll be fine.

The Lakers can not afford to rebuild. Yes there a a good amount of true fans like you but most of the "fans" out in LA arent like that. Thats one reason the Clippers have no fans really. They just arent that good. I dont think LA would like a rebuilding Lakers even if its better for the future. LA is one of the places where rebuilding is never an option just because of their market. Just my opinion of course.

Harddrive7
07-09-2007, 01:40 PM
If the P's keep JO they will be at minimum the 6th seed in the east. The team last year gave up on the coach. Mark my words people around here are going to be shocked at how well this team plays with or without JO on the court. JOB is going to improve every aspect of each players game on this team. Rick was not a players coach and had some serious problems with his people skills. This team is going to be sharper and more in shape then we have seen in years. Remember this post. We are going to make some noise in the east.

Sounds like we're talking about Larry Brown.

I agree with all of this post. I can't WAIT!!!!

2Cleva
07-09-2007, 04:21 PM
Why doesn't a deal with Odom work for Indy again?

From their FA acquistions and targets, its obvious they don't want to spend a lot of money.

No way JO opts out and leaves 40+ mil on the table and no reason for Indy to keep paying that salary for lotto results.

JO for Kwame Brown, Andrew Bynum, Jordan Farmar, Sasha Vujacic and S&T Aaron McKie at 3 mil (with LA throwing in the cash to cover it) should get a deal done. A #1 pick or rights to someone like Gasol and Indy is set better for the future with the PG and C they need.

Or is that just me?

Y2J
07-09-2007, 06:11 PM
I'd do a deal for Bynum and Crittenton, no interest in Farmar.

I'm starting to think that not only won't L.A. give up both Odom and Bynum, but that they wont give up Bynum alone.

gng930
07-09-2007, 07:45 PM
L.A. won't give up Bynum?

Still wondering why Bynum hasn't been playing in the SPL?

diamonddave00
07-09-2007, 09:11 PM
If you don't play Andrew Bynum in summer league you hide his flaws. Keeps his trade value higher.

BlueNGold
07-09-2007, 09:18 PM
If you don't play Andrew Bynum in summer league you hide his flaws. Keeps his trade value higher.

Yes, it's likely they gain little and can lose an awful lot by playing him. If he stinks in summer league, his value really could plummet. He might even get injured which would compound the problem.

BTW, IMO this is proof positive the Lakers are seriously considering trading him. If he was off the trading table, he would be playing to prepare him for the season.

gng930
07-09-2007, 09:28 PM
Bingo x 2.

Will Galen
07-09-2007, 11:56 PM
well there are serious questions as to whether JO would opt out. i tend to think he would . . .

Right now there is no way JO is going to opt out of a two year $43m contract to sign a five year $45m contract.

The only way he would even think of opting out is if has an MVP year this coming season.

Will Galen
07-10-2007, 12:06 AM
Lakers fan are one of the best in the NBA because we CARE about the team.

Laker fans are no different from the fans of any other team! (other than thinking they are entitled.)

Hoop
07-10-2007, 12:32 AM
Laker fans are no different from the fans of any other team! (other than thinking they are entitled.)
:thumbup: