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View Full Version : Does Donnie value Odom more or Bynum?



Smashed_Potato
07-06-2007, 06:35 PM
Since it seems like the Milkman is trying to take every asset the Lakers have if he had to compromise on a trade would he do it with Odom as the main piece or Bynum?

Odom guarantees the Pacers to be in the hunt for the playoffs.

Bynum potentially guarantees a contender in the future for the Pacers.


thoughts??

Roaming Gnome
07-06-2007, 06:37 PM
:deadhorse:

indyman37
07-06-2007, 06:39 PM
In my opinion, Bynum. I always wanted Bynum. Not so much Odom. If we could get Bynum and Crittenton and would be extremely happy.

Smashed_Potato
07-06-2007, 06:44 PM
I think the Lakers will add Farmar they can do it with Crittenton but i don't think they will wait for 30 days to do hold back their plan.

indyman37
07-06-2007, 06:45 PM
I'm just waiting til the 11th when rumors will really start flying around.

Rajah Brown
07-06-2007, 06:48 PM
I have to assume (and hope) it's, no Bynum, no trade. I think they
want Odom because he either helps them win games next year and
stay at least mediocre as the youngsters gain experience and/or can
be moved for other assets (guard talent and/or draft picks) either
immediately or after next season.

I understand holding out awhile for Bynum and Odom. But I'd do it
for Bynum, Brown, Crittenden and filler. Wether Bird/Walsh will
eventually give in and compromise, who knows.

As an aside, I'm not sure who well LO would play in O'B's system as
he seems at his best when he's handling the ball quite a bit in the
'point forward' role.

Kegboy
07-06-2007, 06:48 PM
I sure hope he doesn't, but I wouldn't be surprised.

But as I've said, it doesn't matter. This deal is dead.

Hicks
07-06-2007, 06:54 PM
No one knows.

My personal opinion is if he thinks Bynum can blossom into something special he'd value him over Odom.

blanket
07-06-2007, 07:03 PM
The deal's not dead.

It's on hold as long as the Lakers are still in the KG sweepstakes.

If another WC team (like Phoenix, Golden State or Dallas) land KG, then expect the Lakers to make a trade involving Bynum to land a marquee player in an attempt to compete/appease Kobe.

Maybe that'll be a deal with the Pacers for JO, maybe not. Regardless, expect a lot more league player movement once the Wolves decide what to do with KG.

pwee31
07-06-2007, 07:04 PM
I'm not sure it's just Walsh/Bird giving in. I'm pretty sure the Lakers are wanting to hold onto Bynum as well! The fact that he's been working out and trying to improve during the offseason is only more reason for the Lakers to want to hold on to him

Kegboy
07-06-2007, 07:07 PM
The deal's not dead.

It's on hold as long as the Lakers are still in the KG sweepstakes.

If another WC team (like Phoenix, Golden State or Dallas) land KG, then expect the Lakers to make a trade involving Bynum to land a marquee player in an attempt to compete/appease Kobe.

Maybe that'll be a deal with the Pacers for JO, maybe not. Regardless, expect a lot more league player movement once the Wolves decide what to do with KG.

That sure sounds like it's dead to me. Perhaps some time in the future it will be resurrected in another form, but that's completely up to LA. In the mean time, we would be best served finding something else to obsess about. Like Stanko! :happydanc

Smashed_Potato
07-06-2007, 07:08 PM
Blanket is right, the Lakers are more focused on their primary target and thats KG.

hopefully Donnie just accepts a Bynum/Farmar/Kwame/Future pick deal. he gets 3 young players that will fit the Pacers rebuilding plans not to mention a future pick!

Tom White
07-06-2007, 07:16 PM
If you want my best guess, I'm starting to believe that neither KG or JO will be traded AT ALL.

Edit: OK, the truth is I've thought that for a while now.

Hicks
07-06-2007, 07:16 PM
Blanket is right, the Lakers are more focused on their primary target and thats KG.

hopefully Donnie just accepts a Bynum/Farmar/Kwame/Future pick deal. he gets 3 young players that will fit the Pacers rebuilding plans not to mention a future pick!

Remember who you're audience is.

BobbyMac
07-06-2007, 07:18 PM
We don't need Odom....He's no better than Danny, Bynum is unproven....the Lakers don''t have enough to trade for JO...

Kegboy
07-06-2007, 07:20 PM
hopefully Donnie just accepts a Bynum/Farmar/Kwame/Future pick deal. he gets 2 young players that might fit the Pacers rebuilding plans and a bust, not to mention a future pick!

Fixed.

SoupIsGood
07-06-2007, 07:22 PM
This trade is sooo dead...

diamonddave00
07-06-2007, 07:25 PM
Walsh values Bynum then Odom every other Lakers assets is farther down the line. He probably also favors Crittenden over Farmar , Javaris is bigger and a better defender a greater upside. Even with Bynum, Crittenden and Brown another 3.5 mil in contracts must be added by the Lakers (Cook) +a #1 as far as I'm concerned. Not a Cook fan but makes more sense than a resigned and waived McKie.

Waiting 30 days is no problem to get Crittenden not Farmar.

Smashed_Potato
07-06-2007, 07:35 PM
Kegboy, Kwame is a expiring contract which a team like the Pacers would value.

Farmar might turn out to be just a role-player but a good 1 but the top prize is Bynum.

Will Galen
07-06-2007, 07:43 PM
Waiting 30 days is no problem to get Crittenden not Farmar.

Right! Because the KG situation will take most of the summer. And it would have to be Crittenden not Farmar because Critt could also play the two.

Right now I think any trade with LA for JO has to include, Bynum, Crittenden, and a future #1. Whether it includes Brown and/or Odom remains to be seen.

LA is our trade partner of choice only because of Bynum and his potential. Otherwise the NJ trade is much better.

Lord Helmet
07-06-2007, 08:01 PM
Blanket is right, the Lakers are more focused on their primary target and thats KG.

hopefully Donnie just accepts a Bynum/Farmar/Kwame/Future pick deal. he gets 3 young players that will fit the Pacers rebuilding plans not to mention a future pick!
Yeah, hopefully Donnie and Larry just accept whatever deal comes their way, ****ty or not.

:rolleyes:

esabyrn333
07-06-2007, 08:11 PM
I say screw the Lakers let keep JO. In my eyes its DARKO or Bust :buddies::cheers::alcohol:

Kegboy
07-06-2007, 08:12 PM
Kegboy, Kwame is a expiring contract which a team like the Pacers would value.

If that's the case dropping JO's $20M would be of more value than Kwame's $9M.

Will Galen
07-06-2007, 09:00 PM
If that's the case dropping JO's $20M would be of more value than Kwame's $9M.

If we just went by monetary value then we would just sign 14 players to the minimum.

CableKC
07-06-2007, 09:06 PM
Geez.....I'm gone for 4 days on vacation....and no new news on JONeal to LakerLand yet?

Tom White
07-06-2007, 09:08 PM
Geez.....I'm gone for 4 days on vacation....and no new news on JONeal to LakerLand yet?

No, but Land O' Lakes made an interesting offer. They're still talking to Dw and LB tryin' to butter them up.

Y2J
07-06-2007, 09:13 PM
I'd happily do a deal without Odom. I've been infatuated with Bynum since early last season. I can see greatness in this kid, I think greatness that surpasses what J.O. has given us. Throw in a nice 19 year old guard in Crittenton and a big expiring (and decent young big man) in Kwame, and I'd have to call it a deal.

Roaming Gnome
07-06-2007, 09:23 PM
No, but Land O' Lakes made an interesting offer. They're still talking to Dw and LB tryin' to butter them up.

:rimshot:

Kegboy
07-06-2007, 09:30 PM
Geez.....I'm gone for 4 days on vacation....and no new news on JONeal to LakerLand yet?

No, but there's more Kareem Rush news than you can shake a stick at.

pwee31
07-06-2007, 10:54 PM
An up to date look at some of the rumors. Some new things, some old things!
Though JO didn't make the most likely to get traded list. The article is too long, so check out the link if you want!

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_22617.shtml


By Steve "BskBALL" Kyler
Bold Moves: The Lakers, The Wolves, The Rockets and The Kings are all looking at bold trades this July. The Lakers may not get Jermaine O’Neal, despite both parties being willing. The Lakers are holding fast to the “one asset for one asset” philosophy and the team is not willing to trade Kobe Bryant. Marcus Camby was mentioned early in June as a possibility for the Lakers, but informed sources label the Bulls as a more likely suitor for Camby. Jermaine O’Neal wants to be a Laker, but it seems the Nets have the best offer on the table – Richard Jefferson and Nenad Krstic. If The Lakers stay true to their process of “one or the other, not both” with regards to Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum, they could find themselves on the outside looking in, especially with Memphis all but pulling Pau Gasol of the table – reducing the big man market by one All-Star. The Timberwolves did the dance with Kevin Garnett at draft time and the Warriors continue to try to move the Wolves back to the table with an offer of Monta Ellis, Brandan Wright and Patrick O’Bryant on the table according to league sources – it would likely include Adonal Foyle and others for cap reasons. The Wolves, according to a source close to the team, said at the end of the day the team feels there is more value in Kevin Garnett at the deadline or in a sign-and-trade next summer, saying they seriously doubted Kevin would leave $6 to $8 million a year on the table to walk away as a free agent. The Wolves, at least for now, plan to come to camp with Kevin Garnett unless the offers get considerably better. The Sacramento Kings are supposedly shopping Ron Artest pretty aggressively; the Orlando Magic were said to considering an Artest for Hedo Turkoglu swap. With Rashard Lewis coming in the deal makes sense. However Magic GM Otis Smith has said several times character matters to him more than talent - but he also said re-signing Darko Milicic was a priority. Stan Van Gundy might be a strong enough coach to handle Ron-Ron so maybe there is substance to the idea. Otis said yesterday that the Kings called him and it was nothing more than talk, but he also said that the day before trading for Darko Milicic and Carlos Arroyo. The Kings are also rumored to be shopping Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Mike Bibby. The Kings reportedly have interest in Marcus Camby, so it is possible a three-way deal gets done that moves out the unwanted pieces. The Rockets said early in the draft process they seriously doubted they’d get anything of substance in the draft and that real improvements would come in trade. The Rockets are said to be looking for a veteran forward and have the favorable contract of Bob Sura as bait. Sura has a $1 million buyout and an over $3 million cap value, making his an easy pill to swallow for a team looking for cap relief. Luther Head is a name most feel will be traded to return a veteran forward. Luther is a guy the Nuggets are said to covet, having asked about him several times in the last year according to sources. Given the extra bigs the Nuggets have on the roster, and a desire to clear a little space, a deal could be there for Houston.

Kegboy
07-06-2007, 11:21 PM
Ha! I wonder if they'll stick with the "one asset for one asset" philosophy when they trade Kobe.

Will Galen
07-06-2007, 11:34 PM
Ha! I wonder if they'll stick with the "one asset for one asset" philosophy when they trade Kobe.

Laughing out loud! Thats a great point!

beast23
07-07-2007, 01:05 AM
You guys keep saying that Bynum is the only important asset, and I really think you're all nuts.

To date, no mouthpiece for the Pacers has wavered from the stated goal... to make the playoffs THIS YEAR. To accomplish that it makes no sense to seek a deal without Odom.

Obviously, a trade primarily dealing JO for Odom maintains the status quo in attempting to make the playoffs, but does not accomplish much with regards to long-term rebuilding without Bynum.

Make no mistake about it. Without a quality player from a third team being dealt to the Pacers, both Odom and Bynum are equally important to the Pacers. The Pacers will NOT make this trade without getting both a quality veteran AND Bynum.

Obviously that is my position on the matter, but I honestly think that's what the Pacers are thinking as well. If they weren't thinking this, then a deal would have been made already. The Lakers would have already made a deal that involved only one of Odom or Bynum.

Settling for anything else will either sacrifice their goal for this season, or it will sacrifice our best asset while not getting as much as we need to help rebuild for the future. It's an obvious catch-22 situation, and I think it will actually harm the Pacers for a few seasons should our management budge from their present position.

Will Galen
07-07-2007, 01:43 AM
You guys keep saying that Bynum is the only important asset, and I really think you're all nuts.

To date, no mouthpiece for the Pacers has wavered from the stated goal... to make the playoffs THIS YEAR.

And Bird's unstated goal is to rip off the Laker's, and that's why we will get want we want, although that might not be what you hear in rumors.

Y2J
07-07-2007, 01:55 AM
Bird couldn't even get a late 1st rounder to draft Morris Almond, so I wont be holding my breath waiting for him to rip off any GM's anytime soon.

kept
07-07-2007, 02:31 AM
Bynum is who the Pacers want. Odom is who the Pacers need.

Speed
07-07-2007, 06:57 AM
:deadhorse:


LOL, exactly.

Will Galen
07-07-2007, 06:58 AM
Bird couldn't even get a late 1st rounder to draft Morris Almond, so I wont be holding my breath waiting for him to rip off any GM's anytime soon.

Sure he could have, but then you would have been on here crucifing him for trading Ike, Williams, or Granger.

He wanted to make a trade, he tried making trades, and he had a trade set up only Utah chose first.

And I wasn't speaking of just any GM's, I was talking about the Laker's. Bird hates the Laker's and he just isn't going to trade with them if he doesn't get what he wants. And that obviously would include wanting to rip them off.

Rajah Brown
07-07-2007, 07:41 AM
WG- The merits or lack thereof of any of the various, rumored, deals
notwithstanding, any NBA GM who allows his supposed 'hatred'
of another NBA team to stand in the way of making a deal that
would better his team should be fired immediately.

I'm sure Bird does detest the Lakers (me too). But that should be
totally irrelevant.

Cobol Sam
07-07-2007, 11:18 AM
There is no way that Odom guarantees us a playoff spot, not even close. If having Jermaine O'neal at the position doesn't guarantee us a playoff spot BEFORE a bunch of teams got better this off season why the heck would Odom after a bunch of bad teams got better? ... Brilliant.

:brilliant

idioteque
07-07-2007, 12:27 PM
It's an interest point in Pacer history.

We have the possibility of having Diogu/Bynum OR O'Neal/Milicic as our future frontcourt.

Which would you choose?

Personally I think neither happens and we....:gulp: stand pat!

esabyrn333
07-07-2007, 12:30 PM
I will take number 2 please :devil:

dadscout
07-07-2007, 03:58 PM
:devil:How about Bynum/Milicic with Diogu/Murphy(or his trade replacement) as thier backups:dance:

Anthem
07-07-2007, 06:40 PM
Yeah, if we trade JO there's no reason we couldn't sign Darko immediately.

Lord Helmet
07-07-2007, 06:47 PM
There is no way that Odom guarantees us a playoff spot, not even close. If having Jermaine O'neal at the position doesn't guarantee us a playoff spot BEFORE a bunch of teams got better this off season why the heck would Odom after a bunch of bad teams got better? ... Brilliant.

:brilliant
Apparently, they think we'll believe that though.....:rolleyes:

Y2J
07-07-2007, 06:54 PM
Yeah, if we trade JO there's no reason we couldn't sign Darko immediately.

From what I've read, Orlando is still trying to convince Seattle to do a sign and trade by offering expiring contracts and a 1st round pick. I think eventually Seattle will agree and then Orlando can resign Darko to their hearts content.

Smashed_Potato
07-07-2007, 07:08 PM
Y2J... i don't think money is a issue for Darko. he hates Otis Smith.

Tom White
07-07-2007, 07:14 PM
Yeah, if we trade JO there's no reason we couldn't sign Darko immediately.

Do you REALLY want to do this? What has this guy shown?

JayRedd
07-07-2007, 07:37 PM
Do you REALLY want to do this? What has this guy shown?

There's this:

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PuCXaf-0fzk"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PuCXaf-0fzk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

gng930
07-07-2007, 09:12 PM
Donnie was quoted as saying that he wouldn't be surprised if Bynum was as good as Kareem.

http://www.benmaller.com/archives/2006/november/27#122914

As for salary matching, after Bynum, Kwame, and Crit, you'd need a shade over 3mil to make the trade legal. Cook is BYC so he won't cut it by himself. I'm assuming you want no part of Vlad. So it the end it would need to be 2 out of Cook/Mo Evans/Sasha/McKie.

I doubt you want Cook...shooter matador extraordinare with an attitude - my least favorite player on the team. You already have Troy Murphy for that and you're not getting rid of him any time soon; at least he rebounds and provides some strength in the post.

Sasha and Mo Evans is probably your best bet; both are expiring and both would get minutes. The Lakers will probably try to sub in McKie (who is DONE) instead of Evans. In the end, I don't think Evans would be the hold-up in any trade.

I agree that a future 1st is only fair.

Y2J
07-07-2007, 09:30 PM
Some scouts are stunned by Andrew Bynum's development. The most effusive testimony came from Pacers GM Donnie Walsh: "That kid is working out with Kareem, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turns into Kareem," the Pacers president said. "I'm not kidding. I can't imagine what he'll be like at 23. He's massive." (http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/116461015712480.xml&coll=1&thispage=2) Added a scout from the Western Conference: "I don't care what anyone says. He's the most improved player in the league. If you've seen him both years, you know it. The Lakers can't say this, but the best thing that happened to them was those two injuries to Kwame and Mihm. No disrespect to those guys, but it's helped the Lakers find a future star."

It wouldn't surprise me if Walsh was wanting Bynum while Bird (brain) was wanting the role player with a pot habit.

DisplacedKnick
07-07-2007, 09:50 PM
From what I've read, Orlando is still trying to convince Seattle to do a sign and trade by offering expiring contracts and a 1st round pick. I think eventually Seattle will agree and then Orlando can resign Darko to their hearts content.

If Seattle goes for that, I'd go after Gerald Wallace first. Not sure they can get him because I'm not sure what the Bobcats are willing to pay to re-sign him. But I'd sure give it a shot.

Rajah Brown
07-07-2007, 09:57 PM
Y2-

If Walsh really said that and is that confident in his opinion of Bynum's
future stardom in the league, assuming he's really available with or
w/o Odom, then I don't know what the hell the Pacers are waiting
for. If Bird isn't down with it, then Walsh should either pull rank and
force his hand or send him packing.

Smashed_Potato
07-07-2007, 10:15 PM
Good find Y2J that was the quote i was trying to show to a PD fan a few weeks ago. Donnie no doubt has to compromise on a trade package with Bynum as the main piece if he wants him bad. i think the problem is Bird... he wants Odom while Donnie wants Bynum.

Bird is thinking more about now and Donnie is thinking about the future.

indygeezer
07-07-2007, 10:20 PM
Y2-

If Walsh really said that and is that confident in his opinion of Bynum's
future stardom in the league, assuming he's really available with or
w/o Odom, then I don't know what the hell the Pacers are waiting
for. If Bird isn't down with it, then Walsh should either pull rank and
force his hand or send him packing.

Perhaps July 11th??????? Perhaps trying to figure how to make salaries match....who knows? I do nknow that the P's are usually mum about things until it is legal to talk about them.

Rajah Brown
07-07-2007, 10:29 PM
Geezer-

Good points. And if by chance the rookie PG, Crittenton, happens to be
part of a deal, I don't think he can't be delt until very late in July either.

Anthem
07-07-2007, 11:28 PM
Hmm, that's an interesting quote from Donnie. VERY interesting.

BlueNGold
07-07-2007, 11:31 PM
Bird is thinking...


:eek:

Sorry, I just find it absolutely terrifying that he's calling the shots.

As for Donnie, he's a smart man. He has to value Bynum more at this stage. If Odom and not Bynum was part of the deal, we should forget the deal and keep JO.

It's time to look toward the future and see Bynum dominate the EC.

Anthem
07-07-2007, 11:32 PM
]Good points. And if by chance the rookie PG, Crittenton, happens to be part of a deal, I don't think he can't be delt until very late in July either.
If they haven't signed him yet then it's not a problem. Regardless, the trade could be finalized now, but it wouldn't be official until {INSERT DATE}.

So unless there's a S&T involved, nothing's stopping a deal from happening.

Smashed_Potato
07-07-2007, 11:38 PM
Sorry, I just find it absolutely terrifying that he's calling the shots.

As for Donnie, he's a smart man. He has to value Bynum more at this stage. If Odom and not Bynum was part of the deal, we should forget the deal and keep JO.

It's time to look toward the future and see Bynum dominate the EC.

I think you can't blame Bird he wants to build a winner now or atleast compete for a playoff spot and Odom gives him that.

this is why Donnie is asking for Odom and Bynum because he doesn't want his relationship with Bird tarnish or else if Bird agreed with with the future aspect and not now then the deal would be done now. either way the Pacers really have to think about this not because i want JO because if the Pacers miss out on Bynum their gonna regret it for a while.

Kegboy
07-07-2007, 11:50 PM
If they haven't signed him yet then it's not a problem. Regardless, the trade could be finalized now, but it wouldn't be official until {INSERT DATE}.

So unless there's a S&T involved, nothing's stopping a deal from happening.

I would certainly think the Lakers would want to announce something as soon as possible to placate Kobe.

Unless, [conspiracy theory] they've already worked out a deal but can't make it public yet, so they told Kobe and that's why he backed off a couple days back. [/conspiracy theory]

[edit] Of course, the problem with that is everyone in LA are such media whores they'd never be able to keep the secret.

indyman37
07-07-2007, 11:51 PM
I think you can't blame Bird he wants to build a winner now and Odom gives him that.

this is why Donnie is asking for Odom and Bynum because he doesn't want his relationship with Bird tarnish or else if Bird agreed with with the future aspect and not now then the deal would be done now. either way the Pacers really have to think about this not because i want JO because if the Pacers miss out on Bynum their gonna regret it for a while.
I'll be honest. Ususally, I like Bird's approach to getting players. He finds who he wants and he does pretty much whatever (within reason) to get them. But what disturbs me as of late is that it seems Larry Legend has absolutley no direction and he isn't willing to swallow his pride and rebuild. I'm not overreacting and typing this just because I want us to do everything possible to get Bynum and he is the future. No, I just want this to be the franchise that others used to look up too. How the mighty have fallen. So right about now I'm waiting for Walsh to take the reigns back from Bird (if they were ever given) and try to resurrect this all but sunken ship. Even if it means rebuilding...

Smashed_Potato
07-07-2007, 11:59 PM
I'll be honest. Ususally, I like Bird's approach to getting players. He finds who he wants and he does pretty much whatever (within reason) to get them. But what disturbs me as of late is that it seems Larry Legend has absolutley no direction and he isn't willing to swallow his pride and rebuild. I'm not overreacting and typing this just because I want us to do everything possible to get Bynum and he is the future. No, I just want this to be the franchise that others used to look up too. How the mighty have fallen. So right about now I'm waiting for Walsh to take the reigns back from Bird (if they were ever given) and try to resurrect this all but sunken ship. Even if it means rebuilding...

Bird is and will always be a winner no matter how bad his basketball decisions are at times he hates to wait for a team to develop hes always had the win now approach. that won't change now... Bird is not as high on Bynum as Walsh is thats the lack of dialogue their having in compromising on a deal surrounded with Bynum as the main package.

avoidingtheclowns
07-08-2007, 12:15 AM
I think you can't blame Bird he wants to build a winner now or atleast compete for a playoff spot and Odom gives him that.

this is why Donnie is asking for Odom and Bynum because he doesn't want his relationship with Bird tarnish or else if Bird agreed with with the future aspect and not now then the deal would be done now. either way the Pacers really have to think about this not because i want JO because if the Pacers miss out on Bynum their gonna regret it for a while.

yes thats exactly right... this deal is being asked for so they can remain friends. why isn't it that they're trying to get both pieces to get max value for their franchise player? why is it something else? mostly we've heard the lakers are hesitant to give up odom but recently there were a few reports saying that it was actually bynum who the lakers didn't want to part with and was holding up the deal (maybe that one was from draft night, i can't recall offhand). so maybe what is holding this deal up is the insistance on bynum being included not odom ... ere go its donnie not larry?

i tend to think they both want both players... both donnie and larry like winning now AND later as opposed to just later and odom and bynum would fufill that LB/DW trade requirement. i don't necessarily think there is any specific division between the two.