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Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

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  • Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

    The only thing I'm a little leery about is O'Brien's insistance on shooting threes, but I guess i can live with that if they play defense as I fully expect them to. But I especially don't like the step back three.

    Another minor thing that caught my attention was at the very end of the article. Ob says the power forward and small forward are basically interchangible - two thoughts immedietely come to mind.
    1) that is very different from Carlisle, in his system the small forward and shooting guard were interchangible
    2) Jeff won't be playing any power forward this season.

    I expect to see Murphy, Granger and Shawne playing power forward with Jeff, Ike and JO being the center. Small ball in other words



    http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart



    Pacers rookie And free agent camp
    Williams staying busy in offseason
    By Mike Wells
    mike.wells@indystar.com
    July 6, 2007


    Summer vacation?

    It's been more like summer school for Indiana Pacers second-year forward Shawne Williams, who has had just two weeks off since the season ended almost three months ago.

    Williams has made Conseco Fieldhouse his second home as he tries to build on an impressive ending to his rookie season.

    Williams worked out with the Pacers coaching staff four days a week before rookie/free agent camp opened Thursday.

    He spent the first part of the offseason with former coach Rick Carlisle's staff and team president Larry Bird.

    Bird didn't waste words in his assessment.

    "Larry made me shoot 100 free throws and told me not to think about shooting 3s," Williams said.

    Things changed once Jim O'Brien was named coach in late May.
    During their first day of workouts, O'Brien had Williams spot up and shoot 3-pointers.

    "It wasn't pretty at first," Williams said, laughing. "I hadn't shot a 3 in four weeks. I was shooting air balls and overshooting the rim."

    O'Brien expects the 3-pointer to be part of Williams' repertoire. He has had Williams, who shot 37 percent on 3-pointers last season, and Danny Granger concentrating on 3-point shooting in individual workouts.

    The coach stopped a drill in practice Thursday after Williams shot a jumper just inside the 3-point line.

    "He wants us to shoot the 3 and if we're that close to the line, we should take a step back and get the three points," Williams said.


    Williams has noticed other differences between the two coaches.

    O'Brien has a hands-on approach, spending a lot of time teaching and drilling instructions into the players' heads.

    "He's not a screamer in practice," Williams said. "His voice is just loud and it carries. Rick was more laid back."

    Williams spent the majority of the first half of his rookie season on the inactive list. He had one double-digit scoring game through the end of the March, when his playing time increased as the Pacers struggled down the stretch.

    Williams played double-figure minutes in the final 11 games he appeared in. That stretch showed why Bird was so high on him in last year's draft. He had a career-high 19 points against New Jersey and played within the system.

    "Last season helped my confidence, but that's an old season and I've got to do something this season to build my confidence back up," Williams said.

    O'Brien said Williams, who played both forward positions before switching primarily to small forward last season, will be counted on in a variety of ways.

    "All of our guys, preferably, will be able to face up," O'Brien said. "Everybody has to be multifaceted, so I would not really get caught up on the numbers. Our (small forwards) and (power forwards) are going to be asked to shoot 3s and handle the ball up top. They are interchangeable."
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 07-06-2007, 08:28 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

    On one hand I like the fact that he's a coach that isn't afraid of the three-pointer. On the other hand I feel that if a player spends too much time behind the three-point line, he get's used to that range and becomes a bit less accurate from the mid-range point. However I think Shawne has an excellent stroke, so I'm not worried about him spending too much time out there, as long as he's going to the basket at times too. Whatever happens, I think this coming season is going to be very fun to watch.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

      So if are small forwards and power forwards are going to be asked to shoot from the arc so much, does that mean that our SG and PG are going to be asked to penetrate and shoot the pull up, mid range? This certainly would fall in line with LB's criticism of last season that we weren't getting through down low. It also fits Quis's style and makes Jamal not settle for quick pops at the beggining of the shot clock.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

        He hasn't shot a single three in FOUR weeks? He has to be kidding right? RIGHT?


        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

          a few thoughts... danny and shawne proved they could shoot the 3 regularly - so i don't necessarily have a problem with this. i just definitely hope that danny doesn't float around the arc and starts driving to the basket like he did his rookie season. i think he needs both skills to be the great player we hope he'll become.

          i really wish dunleavy was in indy working on shooting. it would certainly make me feel better about the upcoming season.

          how much you wanna bet that o'brien encourages jeff to play the 4 and suddenly he becomes beast from behind the arc putting up kapono-like percentages. finally, jeff will find his offensive game.
          This is the darkest timeline.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

            Originally posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
            how much you wanna bet that o'brien encourages jeff to play the 4 and suddenly he becomes beast from behind the arc putting up kapono-like percentages. finally, jeff will find his offensive game.
            As long as he doesn't have Rodman's shooting form I'm okay with it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

              Its funny to me that they have to say these kinds of things to NBA players. Every high school player has it drilled in their head that a long two-pointer is the worst shot in basketball. Lack of fundamentals, grumble, grumble, the NBA is ruining basketball, grumble, grumble, etc.

              I always wonder how much better the best players in the world could be if they played 30 less games and had some real practice time, plus a dedicated and well-run developmental league for young guys to gain experience.
              2010 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champion Baltimore Bulldogs

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              • #8
                Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                Originally posted by bulldog View Post
                Its funny to me that they have to say these kinds of things to NBA players. Every high school player has it drilled in their head that a long two-pointer is the worst shot in basketball. Lack of fundamentals, grumble, grumble, the NBA is ruining basketball, grumble, grumble, etc.
                I disagree with that, and always have. If you've got a good look at a long two, and that's where your range is at, then take it. Too many players feel like they HAVE to get a three, and so lose their chance to hit a shot they could actually make.
                This space for rent.

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                • #9
                  Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                  If we've got HS coaches teaching kids to step out of their range and that a long 2-pointer is the worst shot in basketball then somebody should take away their whistle and beat them upside the head with it.

                  If anything, the three-point line is too close and needs to be moved back to 28 feet (or more) to prevent stupid coaches from relying too heavily on it.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                    Originally posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
                    a few thoughts... danny and shawne proved they could shoot the 3 regularly - so i don't necessarily have a problem with this. i just definitely hope that danny doesn't float around the arc and starts driving to the basket like he did his rookie season. i think he needs both skills to be the great player we hope he'll become.

                    i really wish dunleavy was in indy working on shooting. it would certainly make me feel better about the upcoming season.

                    how much you wanna bet that o'brien encourages jeff to play the 4 and suddenly he becomes beast from behind the arc putting up kapono-like percentages. finally, jeff will find his offensive game.
                    Dunleavy has been in New York working with a shooting coach all summer to help increase his shooting percentage

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                      Originally posted by bulldog View Post
                      Every high school player has it drilled in their head that a long two-pointer is the worst shot in basketball.
                      And all those coaches teaching that are full of baloney, usually.

                      It might be a terrible shot if you are shooting an 18 footer when you have range to 23 feet. But an awful lot of players at all levels are (or could be) automatic from mid-range even though they lack 3-point range.

                      Let's say I simply lack the ability to make 3-pointers consistently. I shoot them at a 15% rate. But I have perfected my mid-range game and can make a reasonably open 18-footer 50% of the time.

                      Should I pass up the 50% shot from 18 feet and take 2 steps back and launch a 15% shot from 23 feet?

                      You might think that this sort of situation is odd- making mid range and even deep-mid-range shots (16-20 feet) regularly but not extending out further. It's not. One of my favorite college players ever was Calbert Cheaney. He was automatic from 3 in college at the shorter distance. He went to the NBA and had a nice career but lacked range for the NBA 3 (career percentage <30%). He remained money from midrange. He needed a coach and a system that encouraged him to shoot the shots he can make. A 19-footer was a great shot for him. A 23-footer, even open, was not.

                      edit- while I was writing this long-winded rebuttle, others beat me to it!


                      I think Dunleavy might be a lot like Cheaney-- automatic from a certain range but not necessarily out beyond the NBA 3-point line.
                      Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 07-06-2007, 10:31 AM.
                      The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                        Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                        I disagree with that, and always have. If you've got a good look at a long two, and that's where your range is at, then take it. Too many players feel like they HAVE to get a three, and so lose their chance to hit a shot they could actually make.
                        In my opinion, and I think the opinion of most basketball people I've been around, if you're in position to take a twenty foot two pointer on offense, you were in the wrong place. When coaches yell "spacing," thats one of the things they mean.

                        If your range extends out to twenty feet, but not to the three point line, then
                        A) work on your range, its probably mental
                        B) in almost all cases it will be better if someone else takes a three or you put yourself in a position to take a closer shot (15 footer, etc.).

                        For example, even though he hits a twenty footer at an above average (though still poor) clip, I think Big Z really killed the Cavs in the Finals when he rolled off those picks. He could have hit a much higher percentage if he had just spaced a little closer, Tim D still would not have gotten back to him because they were all preoccupied with Bron.
                        Last edited by bulldog; 07-06-2007, 10:30 AM.
                        2010 IKL Fantasy Basketball Champion Baltimore Bulldogs

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                          Originally posted by esabyrn333 View Post
                          Dunleavy has been in New York working with a shooting coach all summer to help increase his shooting percentage
                          That is the first I've heard of that. Where did you hear (or read) this?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                            Originally posted by Jay View Post
                            If we've got HS coaches teaching kids to step out of their range and that a long 2-pointer is the worst shot in basketball then somebody should take away their whistle and beat them upside the head with it.

                            If anything, the three-point line is too close and needs to be moved back to 28 feet (or more) to prevent stupid coaches from relying too heavily on it.
                            Along these lines, let's see what happens to the college game the season after next.
                            Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bird tells Shawne not to shoot threes, O'Brien tells him to shoot the three

                              Originally posted by pacertom View Post
                              You might think that this sort of situation is odd- making mid range and even deep-mid-range shots (16-20 feet) regularly but not extending out further. It's not. One of my favorite college players ever was Calbert Cheaney. He was automatic from 3 in college at the shorter distance. He went to the NBA and had a nice career but lacked range for the NBA 3 (career percentage <30%). He remained money from midrange. He needed a coach and a system that encouraged him to shoot the shots he can make. A 19-footer was a great shot for him. A 23-footer, even open, was not.
                              The classic NBA example of this is Alex English. Deadly from 18 to 20 feet. Didn't even bother shooting three's because it was out of his range.

                              Remember growing up and playing "around the world" until you could hit a 12-footer all the time? And as you got bigger and stronger you'd take a step back. And eventually you could constantly hit every shot from inside of 18 feet. Nowadays, it seems we send the kids straight to the three-point line but we probably also lower the rim to 8 feet to help them make it.
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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