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Will Galen
06-12-2007, 10:56 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2901572

Former Pacers coach Carlisle leaving franchise
By Marc Stein
ESPN.com[
June 12, 2007, 10:51 AM ET

Former Indiana Pacers coach Rick Carlisle, who had the option of staying with the organization as part of its management structure, announced Tuesday that he is leaving the club.

The Pacers decided on April 25 that Carlisle would not be retained as coach and hired former Boston Celtics and Philadelphia 76ers coach Jim O'Brien as his replacement on May 31.

"I have given notification that I will not be returning to the Indiana Pacers next season as Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations," Carlisle said via e-mail.

"I met with both Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh last Friday and expressed my sincere appreciation for the opportunity to come back next year in a front office capacity, but felt it was better for both the Pacers and myself to part ways at this time," he said in the e-mail. "Jim O'Brien and Dick Harter are great basketball men who I respect and have worked with before, and they will do an outstanding job with this team going forward."

Carlisle, who went 181-147 in four seasons with the Pacers, is believed to be a top candidate for the coaching opening in Seattle that will be filled by new Sonics general manager Sam Presti.

Senior writer Marc Stein covers the NBA for ESPN.com.
--------------------

http://www.nba.com/pacers/

[b]Chat With The Coach
Here's your first chance to meet Jim O'Brien. The new Pacers head coach will chat live with fans Wednesday, June 13, at 2 p.m. You can submit your question in advance or log in during the chat to see what O'Brien has to say.

Will Galen
06-12-2007, 10:58 AM
I expected this. It doesn't say the Pacers bought him out though.

LoneGranger33
06-12-2007, 11:04 AM
Does this mean he's got another job I wonder...?

pwee31
06-12-2007, 11:07 AM
Au Revoir Coach Carlisle. Good luck with whatever you decide to do in the future!

indyman37
06-12-2007, 11:08 AM
COMPENSATION!!!

Elgin56
06-12-2007, 11:11 AM
Not surprising, divorced couples usually don't remain in the same house, they move on to a new make a new life for themselves.

Good luck to Rick, wherever he ends up coaching.

Trader Joe
06-12-2007, 11:11 AM
I wonder what his card will tell him to do now...

Anthem
06-12-2007, 11:12 AM
Pretty classy.

I like Rick. It was time for a change, but the guy seems to be a quality human being.

idioteque
06-12-2007, 11:14 AM
I didn't want him back. We shouldn't have even asked him to come back. When you fire a coach you are supposed to sever ties. Now the headline on the ESPN.com basketball section is just someone else turning down a job for the Pacers. Maybe we shouldn't look into it THAT much, but right now we're getting turned down more than the fat acne ridden kid at prom.

We should have taken the imperative and completely severed ties with RC when we let him go, instead we gave HIM the imperative to turn down our organization and make us look weak publicly. Management at least needs to create an illusion to the media that they're actually in control.

Will Galen
06-12-2007, 11:15 AM
Does this mean he's got another job I wonder...?

He was one of the talking heads on ESPN after the last finals game and now ESPN Senior writer Marc Stein breaks the story of him leaving. I think he will work for ESPN and wait for a good coaching job to open up.

FlavaDave
06-12-2007, 11:27 AM
I didn't want him back. We shouldn't have even asked him to come back. When you fire a coach you are supposed to sever ties. Now the headline on the ESPN.com basketball section is just someone else turning down a job for the Pacers. Maybe we shouldn't look into it THAT much, but right now we're getting turned down more than the fat acne ridden kid at prom.

We should have taken the imperative and completely severed ties with RC when we let him go, instead we gave HIM the imperative to turn down our organization and make us look weak publicly. Management at least needs to create an illusion to the media that they're actually in control.


Or....................

It makes us look classy.

I know the brawl has made us lose sight of this, but that is a classic Pacers move right there.

You know how Bush used the slogan "Restoring Honor and Dignity to the White House"? I think the Pacer's slogan next year should be "Restoring Classiness to Conseco Fieldhouse"



I know some might think the handling of Rick might hurt our image, but I disagree completely. I think this is a great step to get us back on track.

avoidingtheclowns
06-12-2007, 11:31 AM
He was one of the talking heads on ESPN after the last finals game and now ESPN Senior writer Marc Stein breaks the story of him leaving. I think he will work for ESPN and wait for a good coaching job to open up.

he's in the running supposedly for seattle, which could be a good situation with the #2.

ultimately if he stays in broadcasting, i hope he moves to TNT (he could take steve kerr's vacant spot and be equally enjoyable). i hope wilbon escapes too. there is just something unsavory about the abc/worldwide leader's NBA coverage.

NapTonius Monk
06-12-2007, 12:11 PM
he's in the running supposedly for seattle, which could be a good situation with the #2.

ultimately if he stays in broadcasting, i hope he moves to TNT (he could take steve kerr's vacant spot and be equally enjoyable). i hope wilbon escapes too. there is just something unsavory about the abc/worldwide leader's NBA coverage.

Agreed! I personally really miss the NBA on NBC! Hands down the best coverage they had!

Will Galen
06-12-2007, 01:05 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070612/SPORTS04/706120442/1088/SPORTS04


Carlisle parts with Indiana Pacers
By Mike Wells
mike.wells@indystar.com

Former Indiana Pacers coach Rick Carlisle, fired in April, has decided against taking a front office job with the franchise.

Rick Carlisle said working in television, coaching or taking time off all are possibilities after the Pacers. Carlisle is shown coming into a press conference on April 26 when he announced he was stepping down as coach. - Joe Vitti / Indianapolis Star

“I met with both (team president) Larry Bird and (CEO) Donnie Walsh last Friday and expressed my sincere appreciation for the opportunity to come back next year in a front office capacity, but felt it was better for both the Pacers and myself to part ways at this time,” Carlisle wrote in an email statement today.

Carlisle was given the title of Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations when he received his contract extension last fall. He was fired as coach in late April and had to decide by Friday if he wanted to take the front office position. He will receive an undisclosed buyout for the final year of his contract.

Carlisle is now an analyst for ABC and ESPN for the NBA Finals. He continues to be mentioned as a possible candidate for the Seattle SuperSonics' vacant head coaching position.

The Pacers hired Jim O’Brien as their new coach on May 31.

“Jim O’Brien and (new assistant coach) Dick Harter are great basketball men who I respect and have worked with before, and they will do an outstanding job with this team going forward,” Carlisle wrote.

In a Monday night telephone interview, Carlisle said working in television, coaching or taking time off all are possibilities for what he'll do next. He has worked with ESPN and ABC during the playoffs, and said that will continue through the rest of the NBA Finals.

A call today to Walsh was not immediately returned.

The Pacers finished this season 35-47, their worst since 1988-89, and missed the playoffs for the first time in a decade. Indiana was 29-24 shortly after the All-Star break, but lost its next 11 games to fall out of the top eight in the Eastern Conference.

The day he was fired, Carlisle said he enjoyed coaching the team but understood that it was time for the Pacers to hear a "new voice."

Carlisle had a 181-147 record during his four seasons, but his tenure was less about wins and losses and more about his struggle to manage talented but volatile players. He always will be linked with Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson, the two most prominent players in the 2004 brawl between Pacers players and Detroit Pistons fans. That brawl started the unraveling of a team that had the potential to make several title runs.

In the Pacers' first year under Carlisle in 2003-04, they went 61-21 for the best record in the NBA, and the club reached the Eastern Conference finals. But the Pacers lost more games each of the next three seasons.

Peck
06-12-2007, 01:24 PM
You know when you think about it, that record with our club is pretty astounding considering all of the crap that went on.

RWB
06-12-2007, 01:31 PM
You know when you think about it, that record with our club is pretty astounding considering all of the crap that went on.

Take away the 61 win season and the Pacers were 6 games below .500

Mediocre just like in the IT years.

FlavaDave
06-12-2007, 01:32 PM
Take away the 61 win season and the Pacers were 6 games below .500

Mediocre just like in the IT years.



Yeah, the circumstances were exactly the same.

avoidingtheclowns
06-12-2007, 01:33 PM
Take away the 61 win season and the Pacers were 6 games below .500

Mediocre just like in the IT years.

take away one good year from murphy and he never would have been signed to that length/amount of contract. see changing stats can be fun when removing numbers.

maragin
06-12-2007, 01:36 PM
I hope to see him frequently doing game commentary until about halfway through the season, when he is offered the Boston head coaching position.

(not a rumor, just my preference)

Unclebuck
06-12-2007, 01:36 PM
The Pacers have had better coaches over the years, but they've never had a classier man as their coach. I wish him wel. He's done a great job over his 7 years with the organization.

I'll repeat what I've stated in the past. Rick is IMO the second best coach the NBA Pacers have ever had, behind Larry Brown.

avoidingtheclowns
06-12-2007, 01:40 PM
The Pacers have had better coaches over the years, but they've never had a classier man as their coach. I wish him wel. He's done a great job over his 7 years with the organization.

I'll repeat what I've stated in the past. Rick is the second best coach the NBA Pacers have ever had, behind Larry Brown.

both points are true

RWB
06-12-2007, 01:56 PM
I'll repeat what I've stated in the past. Rick is the second best coach the NBA Pacers have ever had, behind Larry Brown.

Was Rick a better coach than the other LB who did make it with his team to the finals?

avoidingtheclowns
06-12-2007, 01:57 PM
Was Rick a better coach than the other LB who did make it with his team to the finals?

hard to say since it could easily be argued that it was carlisle actually coaching the team and bird managing egos

RWB
06-12-2007, 01:59 PM
hard to say since it could easily be argued that it was carlisle actually coaching the team and bird managing egos

VERY TRUE, but isn't that part of the reason Rick was let go because he had no clue how to handle players?

Young
06-12-2007, 02:08 PM
Rick did a great job. Was a big part and coaching this team to a 61 win season and damn near the finals regardless of what others may think he had a big part in that even if you don't like his coaching style.

I don't really think there are more than 2-3 coaches that could do the coaching job that Rick did. Think about it. He prepared this team to win each and every night especially when things were ugly, like after the brawl.

Rick does a great job on TV. I love listening to him. But I also would like to see him back in the game coaching.

I don't think the Sonics job is a good fit for him. They need someone with a different style IMO.

Rick is a great coach and he will land on his feet. It's a shame that he had to go through what he did. He didn't have an easy ship to command like the Spurs, Suns, and Mavs.

Naptown_Seth
06-12-2007, 02:08 PM
Not surprising, divorced couples usually don't remain in the same house, they move on to a new make a new life for themselves.

Good luck to Rick, wherever he ends up coaching.
Um, Stan Van Gundy.

It's coaching, amicable changes can happen. I think the key here is that he still wants to coach and probably has good reason to think he's a front runner for another job with his track record. 1 sub-500 season, and even that was only for the last few months.

Maybe we can get him back a 2nd time once TPTB get their act together in a few years...unless somehow they actually give JOB some parts to work with and salvage what otherwise appears to be impending doom.

Naptown_Seth
06-12-2007, 02:14 PM
Take away the 61 win season and the Pacers were 6 games below .500

Mediocre just like in the IT years.
Seriously, remind us all of the Pacers record POST-GS trade. I mean you're the one making this grand point about W-L records, so why don't you defend the anti-Jackson view with that same logic and while your at it maybe notice the ONLY reason that Rick's record minus his best year (because that's fair :rolleyes: ) is sub-500.

So if we are pulling out his best year, can I ask also that you merely pull out the final 3 months of this last season too, the one where he tried to make a Dunleavy/Troy/Granger team with an injured Tins and JO and no Quis (or any shooting guard at all for that matter) into a playoff team. I'm asking for 3 months, not a full season of "illusion".

I used to think results were the bottom line. Turns out we are even throwing those out the window now.

RWB
06-12-2007, 02:19 PM
Seriously, remind us all of the Pacers record POST-GS trade. I mean you're the one making this grand point about W-L records, so why don't you defend the anti-Jackson view with that same logic and while your at it maybe notice the ONLY reason that Rick's record minus his best year (because that's fair :rolleyes: ) is sub-500.

So if we are pulling out his best year, can I ask also that you merely pull out the final 3 months of this last season too, the one where he tried to make a Dunleavy/Troy/Granger team with an injured Tins and JO and no Quis (or any shooting guard at all for that matter) into a playoff team. I'm asking for 3 months, not a full season of "illusion".

I used to think results were the bottom line. Turns out we are even throwing those out the window now.

Didn't know I was making a grand point in this conversation. Sure it's unfair not to take the man's entire record so I will add this.

Rick Carlisle has been fired from two teams after being a head coach. Rick Carlisle after being the lead assistant of the Pacers during Bird's tenure was not offered the job and given to someone who had never coached before. What exactly was it that steered the Pacers clear of Rick Carlisle the first opportunity to make him a head coach?

I'll have to get back with you on the records to be sure, but weren't the PAcers close to that wonderful 500. record before the trade?

Edit...Digging for info as requested by Seth.

Here's our record for this past season right before the trade and when Jackson and Al were still playing.

November 8-7
Decenber 8-8
January 3-3

As you can see I was wrong. The Pacers were better than .500 by a single game.

2006-07 35 47 .427
2005-06 41 41 .500
2004-05 44 38 .537
2003-04 61 21 .744

Since86
06-12-2007, 02:28 PM
Why can't we use the POST-GS trade to defend the anti-Saras view?

Jack hurt this team on the court, and off of it. GET OVER IT!!!!!!

Mourning
06-12-2007, 02:31 PM
Take away the 61 win season and the Pacers were 6 games below .500

Mediocre just like in the IT years.

I wish Rick the best. I liked having him as our coach and if anything, except for this last year I think he overachieved with what he had to work with. It was just his time to go now and get a different coach, but that doesn't make him look bad at all IMO.

I think we would have way below .500 seasons if someone like Thomas would have coached us in the period that Rick was here.

Just my :twocents:

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

avoidingtheclowns
06-12-2007, 02:58 PM
Um, Stan Van Gundy.

that is more battered spouse syndrome than a divorce really

Elgin56
06-12-2007, 04:32 PM
Um, Stan Van Gundy.

It's coaching, amicable changes can happen. I think the key here is that he still wants to coach and probably has good reason to think he's a front runner for another job with his track record. 1 sub-500 season, and even that was only for the last few months.

Maybe we can get him back a 2nd time once TPTB get their act together in a few years...unless somehow they actually give JOB some parts to work with and salvage what otherwise appears to be impending doom.


I for one, was not calling for Rick to be fired, my comment went to the fact once a coach is fired, it is comparable to a couple getting a divorce, move out and move on.

Roaming Gnome
06-12-2007, 04:39 PM
Rick never embarrassed the franchise. Good luck in the future!

NuffSaid
06-12-2007, 04:44 PM
I didn't want him back. We shouldn't have even asked him to come back. When you fire a coach you are supposed to sever ties. Now the headline on the ESPN.com basketball section is just someone else turning down a job for the Pacers. Maybe we shouldn't look into it THAT much, but right now we're getting turned down more than the fat acne ridden kid at prom.

We should have taken the imperative and completely severed ties with RC when we let him go, instead we gave HIM the imperative to turn down our organization and make us look weak publicly. Management at least needs to create an illusion to the media that they're actually in control.
I don't think that's the case at all.

I think RC simply didn't want to be in the way. Obrien's coming in and taking charge. I don't think having him report to the VP who happens to also be the most recent former heach coach of the team would go over very well. I think RC sees that Bird/DW are trying to take the team in a different direction and RC just didn't want to get in the way of that. So, he turned down the VP position.

Not everything has to be so political or cut-throat. Sometimes, it's simply a matter of a person seeing things for what they really are and stepping aside gracefully. No spin need be added...

bellisimo
06-12-2007, 06:59 PM
I applaud RC for being able to last this long in this wreck of a team/term of events that we all had to endure. Good luck wherever he ends up.

Isaac
06-12-2007, 07:04 PM
I sent a question to OB regarding getting a big man coach.

ChicagoJ
06-12-2007, 07:16 PM
I sent a question to OB regarding getting a big man coach.

:king:

Kegboy
06-12-2007, 09:55 PM
:king:

QFT

Is it too late to write in for Post of the Year and MVP? (Isaac, not Jay)

Shack80
06-12-2007, 10:04 PM
Pretty classy.

I like Rick. It was time for a change, but the guy seems to be a quality human being.

I agree, I hope the best for him. He is a good coach, crap just happened that ruined his stay here. Frankly I think Donnie and Larry need fired as much as him. They are the "masterminds" :rolleyes: that put this crapbird together. I will always respect Donnie for the past, but he has lost it, time to put the old horse down.

Roy Munson
06-12-2007, 10:17 PM
If Carlisle goes to Seattle, not only will the balance of player talent be severely lopsided to the west, but the balance of COACHING talent will more lopsided toward the west than it already it.

(And it already is...definitely).

Seattle will become a dangerous disciplined team with the addition of Carlisle and Durant. It is going to be ridiculously difficult to make the playoffs in the west in the next few years.

avoidingtheclowns
06-13-2007, 02:10 PM
TAKE THREE...


Carlisle denies Sonics rumor
FRANK HUGHES; The News TribunePublished: June 13th, 2007 01:00 AM


Former Indiana Pacers coach Rick Carlisle on Tuesday resigned his position as executive vice president of basketball operations, ostensibly paving the way for him to at least interview for the Seattle SuperSonics’ vacant coaching position.

However, Carlisle later in the day denied his resignation had anything to do with the Sonics’ situation.

“I just want to state for the record that this was a procedural move involving the Indiana Pacers,” said Carlisle, reached on his cell phone in Bristol, Conn., where he was working as an analyst for ESPN. “There was a date involved with my contract, and I had to let the Pacers know of my decision by that date.

“This in no way has anything to do with the Sonics’ coaching position or any other position.”

Sources close to the Pacers said Carlisle’s split with the organization was a foregone conclusion for some time and that Tuesday’s move simply made it official.

Though Carlisle was fired after the season, Pacers president Larry Bird and general manager Donnie Walsh announced at the time that he was being re-assigned within the organization and that he had his choice of whether or not to stay.

League sources say the final year on Carlisle’s contract was not guaranteed, making it easy for the sides to split and viable for Carlisle to pursue other coaching opportunities.

Carlisle is considered, along with Dwane Casey and P.J. Carlesimo, the top candidates for the Seattle coaching opening, which new general manager Sam Presti said he wants to fill as quickly as possible.

However, Carlisle declined to discuss any other aspect of the Sonics’ job because, he said, it would not be appropriate at this time.

In a statement attributed to Carlisle but released by the Pacers, Carlisle said: “I met with both Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh last Friday and expressed my sincere appreciation for the opportunity to come back next year in a front-office capacity, but felt it was better for both the Pacers and myself to part ways at this time.

“I have enjoyed the opportunity to work with ESPN and ABC during their coverage of the playoffs, and will continue to work with them through the conclusion of the NBA Finals.”

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/85978.html

docpaul
06-13-2007, 08:52 PM
Not sure if anyone noticed, but the chat happened this afternoon.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatNBA?event_id=16170

Highlights for me:

Granger at the 2?
Ike competing with Harrison for JO backup minutes
Sees Dunleavy as a development project...
Feels as if Tinsley will thrive in an uptempo game... seems by his wording to be confident he'll be around

Isaac
06-13-2007, 09:54 PM
Of course he didn't even answer my question.

pwee31
06-13-2007, 10:00 PM
Of course he didn't even answer my question.

Don't feel bad, apparently he didn't answer a lot of people's questions with a chat full of 6 or 7 questions?!

btowncolt
06-13-2007, 10:07 PM
Yeah, he didn't respond to my "Will you marry me?"

avoidingtheclowns
06-13-2007, 10:29 PM
and we now may never know whether he believes it's not butter...

Naptown_Seth
06-14-2007, 11:41 AM
What exactly was it that steered the Pacers clear of Rick Carlisle the first opportunity to make him a head coach?The same quality of reasoning that steered them TO a former NBA star as a coach (which never works, and save the Bird example because Harter was there and Rick did it twice after that alone). The same reasoning that made them stick with Isiah even over Scott, forgot Rick, despite the fact that they couldn't hire Isiah for about a month or so due to his LEGAL conflicts created by running the CBA into financial ruin.

There were warning signs all over the place on Isiah, but they pressed ahead with him when Byron Scott was waiting to take over. Also, by NOT bringing in Rick they basically ended up helping create their new chief rival in their own division (as the Pistons then did as well).

Before Billups and Rip and Prince, before Joe D really had a chance to build the title team, there they were winning the division and going to the 2nd round after winning, pay attention here, EIGHTEEN more games by basically just replacing Irvine with Carlisle.

Call it a fluke, then take an all-star center away from the Pacers squad, add Rick, and the team instantly wins 13 more games.


People think Larry Brown is a great coach but the guy has NEVER done what Rick did with an NBA team, let alone 2. His biggest turnarounds involved adding MAJOR players (ahem, David Robinson AND Sean Elliott at the same time). With a problematic NYK roster he didn't even hint at winning 10 more games or something. And in both Detroit and Philly he had players that didn't want him there anymore, and Reggie wasn't exactly fond of him here in Indy either.

That's Larry Brown.

Larry Brown turnaround analysis
Denver was new to the NBA.

NJ won 20 more...but their leading minutes guy was their top pick, Buck Williams who went 15.5/12.3 his rookie season. He was the #3 pick. Oh, and for good measure they added the #10 pick Albert King who was a top bench guy going for 12 a night. Wait, wait, they also added Ray Tolbert with the #18 pick, though he was not an impact.

For good measure top scorers Otis Birdsong and Ray Williams were also brought over before that year. So Larry had a great turnaround and it only took an entirely new roster of star players to do it.

Spurs...well Larry only won 21 his first year with them, so not that impressive. Year 2 Larry improved on his OWN crappy record with 35 more wins and it only took the addition of the aforementioned Admiral and Elliott at the same time. Oh, and bringing Terry Cummings, and their #10 pick from Larry's first year, Willie Anderson.

Clips - he did come in mid-season and did get them turned around in year 1, going 23-12 to salvage the season. However all of this was in March, by April they were back to .500 (5-5) and then the following full season with Brown they went 41 flat and got dumped out of round 1 again.

Pacers - 6 more wins. Decent for sure. Only had to add Antonio Davis and Byron Scott, 2 non-impact players...err. Of course there was the trade of Det for McKey for what that was worth (not sure myself).

76'ers - 31 wins year 1, strike pace for 46 year 2. Added in year 1, all-star Ratliff, #8 pick Larry Hughes, Gieger for what his 13/7 is worth, Eric Snow midway year 1, Lynch...so yes, other than AI the team added the entire starting lineup and the 6th man by the start of year 2 when Larry "fixed" things.

Pistons - 4 more wins. Added? Oh, some dude named Rasheed Wallace without having to give up anything due to a cost reduction move.

Knicks - um, yeah
End Brown stuff


Rick didn't get Rip, Billups or Prince in order to make his team win more. They had Ben the year before he got there. He did it with existing guys Cliff and Stack. Then he did it with existing guys JO, Ron, and Tinsley (and heck he was doing it with Kenny Anderson for the first half of year 1).

If Rick goes to Seattle, they get Durant and Durant pans out like Elliott or Robinson did, it will be the first time he's had that kind of improvement to a roster to work with.


And RWB, let's look at what I requested to go with your removal of 61 wins - nothing past the trade. They were 2 over prior to the deal, they lost a game with players in transition. 20-18 on the last day Al and Jack played for the Pacers.

So that's 6 over in year 2, even year 3, 2 over at trade time. Rick had the NON-61 win team, the team with 200+ player-games lost in one season and then another 100 or so lost from starters the 2nd year, at PLUS EIGHT in the W-L column.

Then TPTB "fixed" things.

Compare Rick's coaching record with the playing record of either Dunleavy or Murphy. One of these things is not like the others.

Naptown_Seth
06-14-2007, 11:55 AM
Why can't we use the POST-GS trade to defend the anti-Saras view?

Jack hurt this team on the court, and off of it. GET OVER IT!!!!!!
We do. What gives you the idea that it isn't brought up, of course it is. Rick not playing Powell more is ALSO brought up for good reason as JP put up nearly Ike-like numbers in GS, and consdering his age it makes getting Ike for him seem less like an obvious upgrade. JP was lost in the shuffle.

I'm really sick of people being sick of hearing about the MOST RECENT PACERS TRADE. Cripes, I think the JO-Dale trade is still mentioned from time to time, or did Peck fall off the face of the Earth without telling anyone? ;)

For the strongly anti-Jack crowd (I belong to the "Jack, meh" crowd myself) it's naturally a point they'd like to see gone 2 days before it happened. As evidence it didn't pan out for the "will ruin your team and save ours by removing the cancer" theory.

Take heart, I think the frustrating, sometimes an idiot theory held strong as long as it is paired with the "can help your team too and is a pretty fair value at his salary" portion.



Elgin, I understand, I just was making a funny point that here it is being mentioned that fired coaches don't stick around when one is being flaunted in the paper, including the Magic having to PAY for the right to hire him. That's about as sticking around as you can get. :)


that is more battered spouse syndrome than a divorce really
:laugh: nice


RWB, the points about Rick are a hot button for me so it's probably coming off more heated than it should. Certainly in person it wouldn't sound like this I don't think. I just think the facts behind the point are strong.

RWB
06-14-2007, 12:17 PM
;)

RWB
06-14-2007, 12:24 PM
RWB, the points about Rick are a hot button for me so it's probably coming off more heated than it should. Certainly in person it wouldn't sound like this I don't think. I just think the facts behind the point are strong.


WHOA, that is really weird. I was responding to your other post and then I find you posted the above while I was responding. :blush:

Seth I know you're a good guy and that's the problem with things in writing. Without seeing someone's expression it's never the same. :buddies:

Back to the thread......

I do not hate Rick Carlisle and I do think he is a good coach. He just wasn't right for the Pacers any longer because yes this last season before the trade there were no excuses to be made IMO in playing 500 ball.

Al and Stephen's last game in a Pacers uni was against the Nets on January 15th. Here is their record up until that time according to Pacers.com.

November 8 wins 7 losses
December 8 wins 8 losses
January 3 wins 3 losses.

1 game above .500 in a season where there was no brawl or major injury to a key player at the time.

Edit again....In all fairness the Pacers had played an additional 6 games on the road during that stretch.

NuffSaid
06-14-2007, 01:08 PM
I'll be short and sweet on my take on RC:

Good guy, very good basketball mind. Understands the game very well.

Problems:

1. Can be too PC at times.

2. Is too predictable in crunch time.

3. Holds onto the reins too tight; needs to have more confidence in his players, particularly his PGs.

4. Would rather play vets over "talent". (I know I'll probably get ripped for that, but sometimes the more tenured player isn't always the most talented. The other side of this coin might be that sometimes the better productivety, i.e., "chemistry", comes from putting a different mix of players on the court even if that "mix" includes more junior players.)

5. Probably isn't the best player "mentor" around.

Overall, he's a good guy and he knows his stuff. I do believe that had the brawl not happened and certain key players been healthier over his tenure, he would have had far more success. The constant shuffling he had to do w/the lineup as a result of the resolving door of injuries and other issues cast a gray cloud over his legacy here, but when people really see things for what they were they'll have to concede that RC did a pretty good job here under the circumstances.

Unclebuck
06-16-2007, 10:16 AM
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/320143_sonx16.html

Wilkens' implication he was in charge led to demotion
Bennett angered by comments about Sonics' searches

Last updated June 15, 2007 11:32 p.m. PT

By GARY WASHBURN
P-I REPORTER

More light is being shed on the demotion of former Sonics team president Lenny Wilkens, and it appears owner Clay Bennett was angry that Wilkens intimated that he was solely running the general manager and coaching searches, according to NBA sources.

According to those sources, Wilkens' interview with media members May 29 from the NBA pre-draft camp in Orlando, Fla., infuriated Bennett to the point that he decided to take full control of the search and move Wilkens back to vice chairman.

Wilkens broke his media silence May 29 and discussed the general manager search with members of the Northwest media. What angered Bennett, according to sources, was Wilkens' repeated use of the word "I" during his session, implying he was in full charge of the search.

"Whomever I pick, we will all work together because we want to make this a very good franchise," Wilkens said. "If I hire you, I am going to give you that latitude to make those judgments. I want to be here to help, but if I hire you, I want you to do the job. I want the (general manager) on board (first) so that he can work with us (in hiring a coach)."

According to sources, Wilkens was never in charge of the general manager or coaching search; Bennett was. Bennett told Wilkens to use the word "we" when discussing the coaching search. Bennett ordered a media shutdown after he removed Bob Hill as coach and reassigned Rick Sund as general manager, and was quite uncomfortable about Wilkens talking to the media.

When he saw that Wilkens acted as if he were in charge of the search, he decided to strip the Hall of Fame coach of his duties. Wilkens has not spoken with the media since Sam Presti was hired as general manager June 8.

Tom Savage, Sonics director of public relations, flew to Orlando on the night of May 30, but it appeared Wilkens had already sealed his fate. Bennett conducted the interviews with Washington Wizards assistant general manager Tommy Sheppard and Presti while Wilkens was phased out of the process.

Wilkens will serve in an advisory role to Presti, but it is uncertain whether he will have any say in the draft or coaching search. Wilkens also did not show interest in signing a new contract with Fox Sports Northwest as an analyst.

Presti has been guarded about revealing any of the team's plans since taking over, and is on board with Bennett's desire to limit information to the media.

NO. 1 CANDIDATE? While Presti is good friends with former Detroit and Indiana coach Rick Carlisle and Carlisle officially broke ties with the Pacers this week, he may take himself out of the running for the Sonics' coaching position for two reasons, according to a source.

First, Carlisle just completed a four-year, $16 million deal with the Pacers, and Bennett, who has been critical of the NBA economic model and increasing salaries, has no intention of paying a coach $4 million per season, according to league sources. It is highly unlikely Carlisle would come to Seattle with a reduction in pay.

Second, Carlisle apparently enjoys his television work with ESPN and has been tempted to take a year off from coaching and pursue openings after next season. Hill made $2.5 million this past season, which is considered a bargain for an NBA coach.

Florida coach Billy Donovan accepted a five-year, $27.5 million package with the Orlando Magic before backing out of the deal. The Magic then signed Stan Van Gundy, who coached less than three years in Miami, to a four-year, $16 million deal.

Carlisle has more experience than Van Gundy and took the Pacers and Pistons to the Eastern Conference finals.

WORKOUTS: The Sonics brought in their most intriguing prospect for a workout so far, auditioning former Louisiana State standout Glen "Big Baby" Davis on Friday.

Davis, who left school after his junior season, is projected as a late first-round or early second-round pick. The Sonics own the 31st and 35th picks. Davis elected not to go to Orlando for the pre-draft camp and has not improved his draft stock over the past few weeks.

Seattle also worked out former Wake Forest center Kyle Visser (6 foot 11) and Ukrainian big man Kyrylo Fesenko (7-0) in the first session. In the second set of workouts, Syracuse forward Demetris Nichols, Iowa guard Adam Haluska and Fresno State guard Quinton Hosley auditioned.



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P-I reporter Gary Washburn can be reached at 206-448-8006 or garywashburn@seattlepi