PDA

View Full Version : A couple things I think we've forgotten (JO&Murphy)



Brian
06-08-2007, 11:58 AM
I know alot of people arent too happy with Troy Murphy,but I seem to remember around the time we got him that he had an injury for most of the season and wasnt gonna be back to 100% untill next season.,So ive been suprised when reading all of the negative things about Murphy and not once have I seen his injury mentioned.


And to JO,I think it would be better for him to be traded before the start of the season.Something about JO that has been forgot was that he WAS going to sign with another team a couple seasons ago,but the pacers lied to him and told him that Isiah was going to be back as coach and soon as JO signed it was out with Isiah and in with Carlisle.JO has been sour about that ever since.


Your thoughts?

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 12:00 PM
What injury? His broken nose?

Naptown_Seth
06-08-2007, 12:05 PM
What injury? His broken nose?
Well he clearly had a broken defensive bone.
:unimpress

Brian
06-08-2007, 12:41 PM
It was his left foot/leg

Hicks
06-08-2007, 12:43 PM
No I think I remember something about this to, and I had forgotten about it while he was here. I think it was an ankle injury or something else with a leg, but I could be wrong. If so, and if it was one of those "it'll heal when he has a summer off", then that'll be great because I think he's better than he showed. Still way overpaid, but better than he showed.

LoneGranger33
06-08-2007, 12:55 PM
What was wrong with Dunleavy?

Hicks
06-08-2007, 12:55 PM
What was wrong with Dunleavy?

His anti-fans.

avoidingtheclowns
06-08-2007, 01:11 PM
His anti-fans.
ZING!

he also needs to work on his jump shot, but so does the rest of our team.

JayRedd
06-08-2007, 01:20 PM
What was wrong with Dunleavy?

Haircut.

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 01:22 PM
What was wrong with Dunleavy?Alot of things mainly his contract, if he sucked and was paid like 3-4 million a year I would be fine with him. But he sucks and is getting paid 8 million a year.

I still cant believe we took on both Murphy and Dunleavy and I never in my life will.

beast23
06-08-2007, 01:24 PM
One thing that I recall reading is that Murphy mentioned that both players were told to reduce their weights while with the Warriors. Murphy complained that his strength was also reduced and indicated that increasing their weight would better enable him to play center while also enabling Dun Jr to play some PF.

Hicks
06-08-2007, 01:24 PM
People use the term "sucks" way, way, way too freely and inappropriately in all sports (not because it's a "bad word", but it's severely misused). It's absurd.

Dunleavy is a good player. He's light-years from "sucks".

Kegboy
06-08-2007, 01:28 PM
Yes, Dunleavy doesn't suck, he blows.

At least, that's what Btown says. :duck:

Arcadian
06-08-2007, 01:29 PM
I think Dunleavy is going to be our new Croshere. Not in terms of talent but how he is viewed by the fans. He's a player who can contribute, good guy just overpaid.

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 01:30 PM
People use the term "sucks" way, way, way too freely and inappropriately in all sports (not because it's a "bad word", but it's severely misused). It's absurd.

Dunleavy is a good player. He's light-years from "sucks".
He is light-years away from being a good player also. Nothing about him says he is a good player, other then his IQ. WOOT for IQ. So many championships won with his IQ.

I also for the first time in my life seen a fan of a player use "he passes the ball into the post well" attribute when defending a player. WTF is that? He passes the ball into the post well, now thats absurd.

ABADays
06-08-2007, 01:55 PM
Yes, Dunleavy doesn't suck, he blows.

At least, that's what Btown says. :duck:

And Btown is living somewhere where he knows the true meaning.

ABADays
06-08-2007, 01:57 PM
Sometimes I truly have to wonder if some people have ever watched a basketball game other than And1.

beast23
06-08-2007, 01:58 PM
He is light-years away from being a good player also. Nothing about him says he is a good player, other then his IQ. WOOT for IQ. So many championships won with his IQ.

I also for the first time in my life seen a fan of a player use "he passes the ball into the post well" attribute when defending a player. WTF is that? He passes the ball into the post well, now thats absurd.I think you and others are probably being a bit too hasty in trying to gauge just how Dun Jr, or even Murphy for that matter, might perform for the Pacers.

Let's face it, neither has had much of an opportunity to show what he is capable of contributing.

Training camp is extremely important for new players to a team. And with a new coach, a training camp and preseason games will go a long way toward shaping and determining what we have.

Going into next season, I would hope that both players are healthier, better conditioned, stronger and more consistent with their mid-range and perimeter shots. Each will get to know his teammates better in an extended practice environment, rather than trying to pick this information up on the fly during games.

What I would expect from Murphy is an ability to use his shooting range to extend the oppositions interior defense, just as Sam Perkins and Rik Smits used to do. We all complained that we've missed that since losing Brad Miller... well here's our opportunity to see if Murphy can supply what we need.

Once Dunleavy has an opportunity to immerse himself within the offense during training camp, we will get an opportunity for him to demonstrate the smarts that we have all read about.

I find it strange that so many of you on the forum stayed on the Bender bandwagon for so long because of his athletic abilities, despite the fact that he had very little court knowledge and productivity. Yet we acquire a player with a lot of court smarts and fundamental skills like Dunleavy, and you are ready to throw him under the bus based on two months of play with very little practice time.

Assuming they stay healthy throughout training camp and the preseason, give them 25 to 30 games into next season, and I think we will all be able to speak knowledgeably regarding what they can or cannot do for us.

naptownmenace
06-08-2007, 02:02 PM
Dunleavy gets a bad rap, IMO.

In his 43 games with the Pacers his averages improved in ppg, rebounding, and overall FG percentage. His numbers in the 43 games with the Pacers were: 14 ppg, 5.7 rebs, 2.6 assists, 1.1 stls and 79% FT, 45% FG. Those aren't the numbers of someone who "sucks" as people keep saying. Those numbers are better than Stephen Jackson's numbers with the Pacers this past season.

His threepoint percentage was terrible after the trade but late in the season he shot less threes and began attacking the basket and using the mid-range jumper more. He played really well during the last 10 games of the season and averaged 16 points and 7.4 rebounds.

I also think people keep forgetting that MDunJr has only played 4 seasons. Sure he's making a lot of money but it's not like he's hit the prime years of his career but people are writing him off. I think he deserves more credit than what he's been getting.

avoidingtheclowns
06-08-2007, 02:09 PM
i totally agree on the dunleavy assessment he definitely gets a bad rap. obviously overpaid but it doesn't bother me as much as murphy.

and truth be told were it not for the terrible position his contract puts us in financially, i'd be willing to see what happens with a new coach (and probably will have to). but i'm more anxious to trade him because of the financial implications.

ajbry
06-08-2007, 02:16 PM
In his 43 games with the Pacers his averages improved in ppg, rebounding, and overall FG percentage. His numbers in the 43 games with the Pacers were: 14 ppg, 5.7 rebs, 2.6 assists, 1.1 stls and 79% FT, 45% FG. Those aren't the numbers of someone who "sucks" as people keep saying. Those numbers are better than Stephen Jackson's numbers with the Pacers this past season.

That's an awfully misleading comparison. Jack's 2006-07 stretch with the Pacers was riddled with injury (wrist in November) and by far was his least productive stretch in about 4 years.

Hicks
06-08-2007, 02:16 PM
Dunleavy is an average defender, a decent shooter (from inside 3), a good passer, a very good rebounder (for a wing), and yes a smart player (typically knows where to be / what to look for) and he's even got a little bit of atheleticism. That's a good player.

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 02:23 PM
I think you and others are probably being a bit too hasty in trying to gauge just how Dun Jr, or even Murphy for that matter, might perform for the Pacers.

Let's face it, neither has had much of an opportunity to show what he is capable of contributing.

Training camp is extremely important for new players to a team. And with a new coach, a training camp and preseason games will go a long way toward shaping and determining what we have.

Going into next season, I would hope that both players are healthier, better conditioned, stronger and more consistent with their mid-range and perimeter shots. Each will get to know his teammates better in an extended practice environment, rather than trying to pick this information up on the fly during games.

What I would expect from Murphy is an ability to use his shooting range to extend the oppositions interior defense, just as Sam Perkins and Rik Smits used to do. We all complained that we've missed that since losing Brad Miller... well here's our opportunity to see if Murphy can supply what we need.

Once Dunleavy has an opportunity to immerse himself within the offense during training camp, we will get an opportunity for him to demonstrate the smarts that we have all read about.

I find it strange that so many of you on the forum stayed on the Bender bandwagon for so long because of his athletic abilities, despite the fact that he had very little court knowledge and productivity. Yet we acquire a player with a lot of court smarts and fundamental skills like Dunleavy, and you are ready to throw him under the bus based on two months of play with very little practice time.

Assuming they stay healthy throughout training camp and the preseason, give them 25 to 30 games into next season, and I think we will all be able to speak knowledgeably regarding what they can or cannot do for us.

Murphy and Dunleavy have both had many games and many training camps in the NBA. I have been watching both of them since they have come into the NBA. And apart from the little improvement they made their first 2 years they have been the same player. Both of them have actually gotten worse the past 2 years.

Slick Pinkham
06-08-2007, 02:29 PM
What injury? His broken nose?

from rotoworld.com, December 21 2006:

Troy Murphy left the Warriors Wednesday night so he could fly back to California to meet with a foot specialist about his injury.

Murphy has sat the last six games to rest his sore Achilles' tendon, but rest has not helped the situation, so it's time to explore other options. Surgery has not been discussed as a solution, but we should know more later in the week after Murphy's meeting with the foot specialist. Matt Barnes looks like he'll retain value for some time given this news.

CableKC
06-08-2007, 02:42 PM
I will give Murphy the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this last season. I suspect that he was somehow injured....injured enough to affect his play....but not injured enough to prevent him from playing. I mentioned this before.....although its all pure speculation....when you look at his stats this last year and compare it to previous years.....the only year ( other then his rookie year ) where he averaged similiar #s....in BOTH rebounding and scoring...was the year that he got injured. I really hope that this is the case.....cuz his #s took a serious hit this last season...especially in the rebounding department.

About Dunleavy....I don't agree with most of the "negative" comments about him. Sure, he's overpaid ( mostly not his fault....Mullin didn't have to succomb to giving him that much )...he was drafted too high ( not his fault ) and doesn't play great defense ( he probably plays as much defense as the rest of the team...why single him out ? ). Although its very difficult to ignore all of the above...most notably his salary.....I can't ignore that he is what he is....a solid 6th man.

I may hate the he had to start him at the SG spot....but I won't complain about his 45% shooting from the field, his 14 ppg and his 5.7rpg as a Pacer. I would love to get a player that makes as much as he does that produces more....but we can't change that now.

I will give both of them the benefit of the doubt after we go through a full training camp with both of them before passing any judgement on them.

beast23
06-08-2007, 03:27 PM
Murphy and Dunleavy have both had many games and many training camps in the NBA. I have been watching both of them since they have come into the NBA. And apart from the little improvement they made their first 2 years they have been the same player. Both of them have actually gotten worse the past 2 years.I think you totally miss the importance of a player progressing through training camp with the team he is playing for. I could care less how many prior training camps they've been through before coming here; that has nothing to do with developing chemistry with our own players.

I've always stated that an NBA player will show his most marked improvement in his third year in the league. So it doesn't surprise me that either player has not shown significant improvement since then.

Not based on visual observation, but based on statistics, I think you are incorrect regarding the seasons that each player has had over the past two years... in comparisons with prior years. Based on per minute averages, each player's stats with the Pacers was in line with or even better than the prior two years of play in many categories.

I can state that I'm not concerned about Dun Jr at all. I honestly think he will pan out and easily be one of our top players.

I do have concerns regarding Murphy and what I perceive to be a lack of quickness around the basket. However, considering that he had a foot/ankle injury, that would certainy warrant withholding judgement.

LoneGranger33
06-08-2007, 03:28 PM
I actually have nothing against Dunleavy, but I really do wish we didn't get Troy Murphy after watching that game against Detroit. He's a decent player (probably overpaid), but I'm sure he'll be fine next year.

pwee31
06-08-2007, 03:36 PM
I think Dunleavy is a solid player, does a lot of things well, not great, and brings a lot of other things to the floor that doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

Murph.... well if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. Hope he plays better

JO is alright. I don't mind the guy, I think he plays hard and leaves it on the court. Thing is, he's not worth his contract either. I personally wanted him traded after his MVP type season. I figured that would be his best effort and his highest value. I thought Artest would be the guy to build around (swing and a miss on that one) but who knew he would snap and turn into the nutcase that he is. I was wrong on Artest, but I believe I was right on JO. He's a good player, and plays hard. Yes he's an all-star, but he should be given that the offense is built around him. He rebuilds and blocks shots, and that's nice, but he's not a go to guy in tough situations. he settles for too many jumpshots, he's injury prone, he wants certain brought in or built around him, then he also wants guys gone if they bump heads. With Reggie and Artest gone, the team hasn't really been really good. We've had good teams and good players, but we didn't have a guy to make a clutch shot, or get a clutch stop. Even Peja seemed to be a better 1st option then JO. You look at that Nets series and the 2 games Peja played we won. Granted his back is in bad shape, he was still a better option that season.

As long as JO is here, I will root for and support him b/c I like the guy, I just don't think he was or ever will be a franchise player

tdubb03
06-08-2007, 04:54 PM
Dunleavy's a pretty good 6th/7th man. We all know he's overpaid, but that's his fault? You'd say no to that contract offer? Really my only qualm with him is his being here's going to stunt Shawne Williams's growth. We have three prototype 3s, and one'll have to play the 2. Though I think a Daniels/Dunleavy backcourt could be interesting. I say TPTB start passing around a hat to buy out Muphy.

Isaac
06-08-2007, 05:05 PM
Dunleavy is great at scoring in blowouts. Every time we were getting blown out Dunleavy would get scorching hot and get his stats. He's done that his whole career. He may not "suck" but he sucks at playing in any sort of pressure situation, and that's why if he's a main aspect of a team they are going to be terrible.

ajbry
06-08-2007, 05:06 PM
Dunleavy is great at scoring in blowouts. Every time we were getting blown out Dunleavy would get scorching hot and get his stats. He's done that his whole career. He may not "suck" but he sucks at playing in any sort of pressure situation, and that's why if he's a main aspect of a team they are going to be terrible.

You pretty much summed up Al Harrington as well.

Alpolloloco
06-08-2007, 05:11 PM
I think Dunleavy is a solid player, does a lot of things well, not great, and brings a lot of other things to the floor that doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

Murph.... well if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. Hope he plays better

JO is alright. I don't mind the guy, I think he plays hard and leaves it on the court. Thing is, he's not worth his contract either. I personally wanted him traded after his MVP type season. I figured that would be his best effort and his highest value. I thought Artest would be the guy to build around (swing and a miss on that one) but who knew he would snap and turn into the nutcase that he is. I was wrong on Artest, but I believe I was right on JO. He's a good player, and plays hard. Yes he's an all-star, but he should be given that the offense is built around him. He rebuilds and blocks shots, and that's nice, but he's not a go to guy in tough situations. he settles for too many jumpshots, he's injury prone, he wants certain brought in or built around him, then he also wants guys gone if they bump heads. With Reggie and Artest gone, the team hasn't really been really good. We've had good teams and good players, but we didn't have a guy to make a clutch shot, or get a clutch stop. Even Peja seemed to be a better 1st option then JO. You look at that Nets series and the 2 games Peja played we won. Granted his back is in bad shape, he was still a better option that season.

As long as JO is here, I will root for and support him b/c I like the guy, I just don't think he was or ever will be a franchise player

I agree with you on Dunleavy and JO, Mike is a good player to have on our team but he would be best suited as our first man off the bench.
JO is indeed overpaid and overrated, at least by many here on this board. He never was a franchise player (only in name) and I will be very glad when he's traded to LA or another team. Hopefully his bandwagon fans will follow him.

I was aware of the leg injury of Murphy, so he basically hasn't been able to show his best skills. I'll give him next season to prove himself a good contributor to our team (14/8 will do for me).

Unclebuck
06-08-2007, 05:16 PM
He is light-years away from being a good player also. Nothing about him says he is a good player, other then his IQ. WOOT for IQ. So many championships won with his IQ.

I also for the first time in my life seen a fan of a player use "he passes the ball into the post well" attribute when defending a player. WTF is that? He passes the ball into the post well, now thats absurd.

LOL, so are you sayin that he doesn't pass the ball into the post well - or are you just saying that it doesn't matter. because it is actually a very important skill - that is getting more and more difficult to find

Anthem
06-08-2007, 05:20 PM
I may hate the he had to start him at the SG spot....
As do I.

I agree with this, and with tdubb. How many small forwards do we need? Why can't we get a shooting guard in here?

Alpolloloco
06-08-2007, 05:20 PM
LOL, so are you sayin that he doesn't pass the ball into the post well - or are you just saying that it doesn't matter. because it is actually a very important skill - that is getting more and more difficult to find

Especially because the main receiver is no one else but Jermaine ;)

ajbry
06-08-2007, 05:21 PM
LOL, so are you sayin that he doesn't pass the ball into the post well - or are you just saying that it doesn't matter. because it is actually a very important skill - that is getting more and more difficult to find

You also have to take into account that fewer and fewer teams need good entry passes into the post. Guards dominate a lot of the scoring and most teams don't run a system similar to the Pacers nowadays (slow pace and throw it into a big man).

Plenty of players have the skill, but not many need to do it on a consistent basis.

BlueNGold
06-08-2007, 06:05 PM
The problem with Murphy and Dunleavy is less to do with them individually and more to do with the fact they are both on the same team with another poor defender: Jamaal Tinsley. We have too many bad defenders on the floor at the same time. That's why we were a different team with Quis.

I would like to see JT and TM moved, but I am fine with Dun getting minutes if he is surrounded by 4 other good defensive players. I think Dun adds a lot on offense, helps with spacing and ball movement, rebounds very well for a pencil-thin guy....and with them adding strength to his frame, he might become very good. Yes, I'm fine with Mr. Dunleavy. Give him and the other players a chance to work from the start of the season.

BlueNGold
06-08-2007, 06:19 PM
You also have to take into account that fewer and fewer teams need good entry passes into the post. Guards dominate a lot of the scoring and most teams don't run a system similar to the Pacers nowadays (slow pace and throw it into a big man).

Plenty of players have the skill, but not many need to do it on a consistent basis.

I could not disagree more with all the talk about guards taking over the league.

The best teams continue to be those with a strong post presence. Whether it's Miami last year or San Antonio...they are the best. Without the post threat, there is no need to double down leaving the 3pt shot open...and your own bigs on the interior will be far more available to block the occasional drive to the bucket.

As for the entry pass, it's an important piece for a championship level team. It, along with a good passing big man with post skills, makes a huge difference because it can defeat the double team (which must be done if the big is dominant in the post). It is one of the reasons San Antonio's ball movement is a thing of beauty....and why they are repeat champions.

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 06:47 PM
LOL, so are you sayin that he doesn't pass the ball into the post well - or are you just saying that it doesn't matter. because it is actually a very important skill - that is getting more and more difficult to findI can pass the ball into the post well.

Unclebuck
06-08-2007, 06:50 PM
I can pass the ball into the post well.

In the NBA??

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 07:05 PM
In the NBA??
If I was 6-7 yes. In the CBA I can go right now and throw the ball into the post. With out warming up and getting paid 8 mil.

d_c
06-09-2007, 12:25 AM
As a Warrior fan who watched way too many of Murphleavy's games, the main problem with them is that they complement eachother very poorly. Mullin somehow had numerous games and endless practices to realize this and yet he signed them both to long term deals.

You can have either one at their price, but having both is tough to swallow because you can't play both guys at the same time. Whenever you play both of them at the same time, you're simply giving away too much in terms of athleticism and defense.

There's no other way to put it.

It's especially bad when you have to play Dunleavy and Granger at the 2/3. Then you have Murphy at the 4 and you are just way too slow.

That means that one of these guys has to start as an overpaid role player and then one of them has to come off the bench as an overpaid 7th/8th man (I noticed this was Murphy down the stretch of the season). That's bad.

The Pacers need to try to unload one of these guys on the Lakers in any trade involving JO. If you can get Bynum as the primary piece while unloading one of the Murphleavy twins along with Jermaine, then that's a good trade for Indy.

BlueNGold
06-09-2007, 08:38 AM
As a Warrior fan who watched way too many of Murphleavy's games, the main problem with them is that they complement eachother very poorly. Mullin somehow had numerous games and endless practices to realize this and yet he signed them both to long term deals.

You can have either one at their price, but having both is tough to swallow because you can't play both guys at the same time. Whenever you play both of them at the same time, you're simply giving away too much in terms of athleticism and defense.

There's no other way to put it.

It's especially bad when you have to play Dunleavy and Granger at the 2/3. Then you have Murphy at the 4 and you are just way too slow.

That means that one of these guys has to start as an overpaid role player and then one of them has to come off the bench as an overpaid 7th/8th man (I noticed this was Murphy down the stretch of the season). That's bad.

The Pacers need to try to unload one of these guys on the Lakers in any trade involving JO. If you can get Bynum as the primary piece while unloading one of the Murphleavy twins along with Jermaine, then that's a good trade for Indy.

Extremely well put. A post that shows real understanding of the problem. I would only add that having Tinsley, another poor defender on the floor at the same time as Murphleavy, is a recipe for the lottery.

Roferr
06-09-2007, 10:13 AM
Alot of things mainly his contract, if he sucked and was paid like 3-4 million a year I would be fine with him. But he sucks and is getting paid 8 million a year.

I still cant believe we took on both Murphy and Dunleavy and I never in my life will.

Hmmm, I thought they were a steal. :confused:

Roferr
06-09-2007, 10:24 AM
Dun has for the most part taken a bum rap. He is a very intelligent player and puts up starter numbers. If he puts on the 20 lbs of muscle that he was shooting for this summer, it will only add another facet to his game as he will be able to play some minutes at 4. His only shortcoming has been his outside shooting and I think it will improve.

As far as Murph.....he is a double-double player and will prove his worth this coming season. I see both as starters with Murph playing about 28 mins and Dun about 35 mins. Oh, and that will be on a 50 win team.

Sad but true....some don't or won't give the two the benefit of the doubt and say that the two "suck" simply because they are white. Those posters aren't hard to single out.

LoneGranger33
06-09-2007, 11:22 AM
He also went to Notre Dame, so that's two things against him.

(I will cry if he starts next season)

Jermaniac
06-09-2007, 11:30 AM
Dun has for the most part taken a bum rap. He is a very intelligent player and puts up starter numbers. If he puts on the 20 lbs of muscle that he was shooting for this summer, it will only add another facet to his game as he will be able to play some minutes at 4. His only shortcoming has been his outside shooting and I think it will improve.

As far as Murph.....he is a double-double player and will prove his worth this coming season. I see both as starters with Murph playing about 28 mins and Dun about 35 mins. Oh, and that will be on a 50 win team.

Sad but true....some don't or won't give the two the benefit of the doubt and say that the two "suck" simply because they are white. Those posters aren't hard to single out.lol I'm so sure thats its. Troy Murphy cant back down a PG, or guard a PG in the paint. But its because he is white.

Roferr
06-09-2007, 12:34 PM
lol I'm so sure thats its. Troy Murphy cant back down a PG, or guard a PG in the paint. But its because he is white.

Murph is built to bang with the big boys...not post up PG's. It's nice if a PF can isolate on a PG but that's not their forte and it doesn't happen often so it's not even relevant.

Jermaniac
06-09-2007, 12:37 PM
Murph is built to bang with the big boys...not post up PG's. It's nice if a PF can isolate on a PG but that's not their forte and it doesn't happen often so it's not even relevant.

The point is, is that he is so weak and soft that he cant back down a PG let alone the big boys. Did you watch any of the games? The guy gets slaughtered everytime he tries to guard someone thats even a little bit bigger to him. He cant guard me in the paint.

Its because he is white though. You are probably one of the dudes who thinks every black male with a tattoo is a thug. But we hate Troy Murphy because he is white. Stop it guy.

Roferr
06-09-2007, 12:40 PM
The point is, is that he is so weak and soft that he cant back down a PG let alone the big boys. Did you watch any of the games? The guy gets slaughtered everytime he tries to guard someone thats even a little bit bigger to him. He cant guard me in the paint.

Its because he is white though. You are probably one of the dudes who thinks every black male with a tattoo is a thug. But we hate Troy Murphy because he is white. Stop it guy.

Not worthy of a rebuttal.

Don't even presume to know what I think.

Jermaniac
06-09-2007, 12:42 PM
Yeah. Is it because I'm white? You dont want to reply back to me because I'm white. Damn it, I'm always held down because of my skin color just like Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy.

Why is my post not worth a rebuttal because I accused you of being a racist? Read your own post you did the same, get at me.

speakout4
06-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Murph is built to bang with the big boys...not post up PG's. It's nice if a PF can isolate on a PG but that's not their forte and it doesn't happen often so it's not even relevant.
Seriously he doesn't bang with the big boys or anyone else. Basically Murph is a marshmellow who wants to camp out at the 3 point line rather than get rebounds. Look at how many blocks he gets per game. He is by far the biggest albatross on the team if you consider the way he plays and his salary. Dunleavy is way more valuable than Murph.

Roferr
06-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Yeah. Is it because I'm white? You dont want to reply back to me because I'm white. Damn it, I'm always held down because of my skin color just like Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy.

You'll have to bait someone else.

I'll have to make a modification....you were on my ignore list before the sight went down.

Roferr
06-09-2007, 12:53 PM
Seriously he doesn't bang with the big boys or anyone else. Basically Murph is a marshmellow who wants to camp out at the 3 point line rather than get rebounds. Look at how many blocks he gets per game. He is by far the biggest albatross on the team if you consider the way he plays and his salary. Dunleavy is way more valuable than Murph.

You know, that's what puzzles me. When he first came into the league, the vets tested him repeatedly and he never backed down while giving good as he got. He was a double-double player the first couple of seasons. I'm hoping that it was his injury that was holding him back and that he can revert to the player he once was.

For sure, Dun is more valuable than Murph.

Hicks
06-09-2007, 01:17 PM
That's been confusing to me as well: Murphy looking soft here. He wasn't soft as I remember him in GS. I remember he and Brad got into it once. And I'd always heard he had a scrappy reputation prior to that.

BlueNGold
06-09-2007, 03:45 PM
Seriously he doesn't bang with the big boys or anyone else. Basically Murph is a marshmellow who wants to camp out at the 3 point line rather than get rebounds. Look at how many blocks he gets per game. He is by far the biggest albatross on the team if you consider the way he plays and his salary. Dunleavy is way more valuable than Murph.

Accurate assessment. Murphy is as soft as they come in the NBA. In retrospect, it was a mistake to take his contract.

But let's not get carried away. Mr. turnaround and fadeaway for a low pct. shot (ie. JO) is no hard guy. Foster is more physical. That's one of the reasons last year's back court of JO/Al/Granger was a failure. There was no aggressive, physical presence. Sure, JO gets blocks, but that ain't physical...it's finesse/timing. Just look at AK47.

Now, Carlos Boozer is a different story. That guy ain't soft.

Anthem
06-09-2007, 04:09 PM
Dun has for the most part taken a bum rap. He is a very intelligent player and puts up starter numbers. If he puts on the 20 lbs of muscle that he was shooting for this summer, it will only add another facet to his game as he will be able to play some minutes at 4. His only shortcoming has been his outside shooting and I think it will improve.
That's the worst news I've heard.

If Dun wants to be a PF, then why the heck are we playing him at guard?

Roferr
06-09-2007, 04:22 PM
That's the worst news I've heard.

If Dun wants to be a PF, then why the heck are we playing him at guard?

I don't think he wants to be a PF but be able to take it to the rack with more authority. He probably still intends to play mostly at the 2 and 3. With another 20 lbs of muscle, he can play all three positions, even in the same game.

Hicks
06-09-2007, 04:31 PM
Dun at PF is a horrible idea. I hope he's not adding 20# either. He needs to build strength, not muscle mass.

Elgin56
06-09-2007, 04:36 PM
Well he clearly had a broken defensive bone.
:unimpress


I heard that Rick told Murph, as he was going in a game to replace Foster," damn it Troy get tough out there", and Troy replied," OK coach what's his number".:dance:

Anthem
06-09-2007, 05:28 PM
I don't think he wants to be a PF but be able to take it to the rack with more authority. He probably still intends to play mostly at the 2 and 3. With another 20 lbs of muscle, he can play all three positions, even in the same game.
Sweet mercy.

With another 20lbs of muscle, he'll be a wretched 2 and a lightweight 4. The only position where he won't be an immediate and massive liability will be at the three, where he'll be an inferior player to Danny Granger.

If he wants to take it to the rack he needs to get faster, not heavier.

Eindar
06-09-2007, 05:40 PM
I could see Dun getting heavier as being a good thing if he's willing to sacrifice versatility for performance. It's unfortunate that he'll still likely be inferior to Granger, but at least he'll be much more valuable in a trade.

Let's face it, Dunleave is a pretty wretched 2 Right Now :)

OnlyPacersLeft
06-09-2007, 08:39 PM
JO's soft :(

Anthem
06-09-2007, 09:22 PM
Let's face it, Dunleave is a pretty wretched 2 Right Now :)
Which is why I just don't get it. I don't see what we're supposed to do with him.

Play him at sixth man? That's the best I can figure.

avoidingtheclowns
06-09-2007, 10:48 PM
slightly random... driving around today i flipped over to WJFK (dc station) and they were talking about Sports Illustrated's list of the fortunate 50 athletes combining salary and endorsements. jermaine clocks in at #27... but almost as soon as i turned it on they started talking about troy murphy's contract.

"What the guy has one good year and you're going to give him like $50mil over the next four years? Come on..."

i found it mildly depressing that DC jocks even make fun of our contracts. granted we didn't sign him to that but we took it...

ChicagoJ
06-09-2007, 11:31 PM
Is Dunleavy even "overpaid"?

06/07 - $7.4
07/08 - $8.2
08/09 - $9.0
09/10 - $9.7
10/11 - $10.6

That's not that bad for a starting caliber SF.

Granted, we've got to move Granger for a starting SG, and that wouldn't be my first choice but not its probably our only choice.

Anthem
06-09-2007, 11:41 PM
Is Dunleavy even "overpaid"?
Everybody here's talking about Murphy's contract, not Dunleavy's.

avoidingtheclowns
06-09-2007, 11:41 PM
over the last 20 games he averaged 14ppg and over the last 10 he averaged 16ppg, thats not terrible production for the price. i think its more the length & combining it with troy's that makes mike's seem terrible

ChicagoJ
06-09-2007, 11:50 PM
Everybody here's talking about Murphy's contract, not Dunleavy's.

tdubb, avoidingtheclowns, CableKC and Jerm werer talking about Dunn's contract.

:shrug: