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View Full Version : Compensation for Carlisle?



OakMoses
06-08-2007, 08:18 AM
The Magic gave the Heat pick #39 for Stan Van Gundy.

At this point we should all start praying that someone (maybe Seattle as is rumored) signs Rick and sends a pick our way.

Anthem
06-08-2007, 09:25 AM
Not going to happen... it would make the franchise even LESS classy.

It's not worth a late 2nd-round pick.

Tom White
06-08-2007, 09:52 AM
Not going to happen... it would make the franchise even LESS classy.

It's not worth a late 2nd-round pick.

Isn't compensation like that a part of normal business in other leagues? The NFL, for example?

Ragnar
06-08-2007, 09:53 AM
I hope he tries to get a couple of players from his old team who already buy into his system. Say Murphy and Dunleavy I am pretty sure we could accommodate his new team with those players.


Of course I still think Bird will want to keep them so I have no hope. But Rick has a habit of liking very bad players who buy into his system. Think Curry, AJ

avoidingtheclowns
06-08-2007, 10:15 AM
I hope he tries to get a couple of players from his old team who already buy into his system. Say Murphy and Dunleavy I am pretty sure we could accommodate his new team with those players.


Of course I still think Bird will want to keep them so I have no hope. But Rick has a habit of liking very bad players who buy into his system. Think Curry, AJ

can you really say a guy that scores 40 in a playoff game a bad player? maybe a bad PG...

Ragnar
06-08-2007, 10:32 AM
can you really say a guy that scores 40 in a playoff game a bad player? maybe a bad PG...

To be fair to AJ you are right the guy is an NBA player just not in any measure a point guard. He could score and I would even take him back as our backup sg if we could get it in writing that he would never play the point again. And I will always respect a guy who can hit his foul shots when the game is on the line.

Los Angeles
06-08-2007, 11:50 AM
Ragnar, I don't think you've changed your position since 03/04.

Back then, AJ couldn't bring the ball up and was otherwise mistake prone.

What he did over the summers since was outstanding. I mean unbelievably outstanding.

In both spring 05 and spring 06, both Tinsley and JO went out and we had AJ at point and ran a motion offense featuring Reggie (05) and Peja (06). Not only did those periods come with a fantastic W/L record AND great play from AJ, it also represented the most fun I've had watching the pacers for the entirety of the last 3 seasons.

AJ was the best PG we had when you combine health, talent, and team play.

The criticism that AJ was not a real PG is an obsolete position. AJ sure as hell played like a starting PG during our runs to the playoffs both seasons.

Was he ever going to lead us to a championship? No. He's not THAT good. But I'm not arguing that.

Was he better suited for another position? No. He was not a PG that relied on talent at the position. he had to WORK and STUDY to become worthy of the position and that's just what he did.

For all the natural talent Tinsley has, I'll still take AJ (as of a year ago) 7 times out of 10.

JayRedd
06-08-2007, 11:57 AM
Isn't compensation like that a part of normal business in other leagues? The NFL, for example?

Yes. I wouldn't say class has anything to do with wanting what you're entitled to. Even if it is Pat Riley we're talking about.

Naptown_Seth
06-08-2007, 11:57 AM
I hope he tries to get a couple of players from his old team who already buy into his system. Say Murphy and Dunleavy I am pretty sure we could accommodate his new team with those players.


Of course I still think Bird will want to keep them so I have no hope. But Rick has a habit of liking very bad players who buy into his system. Think Curry, AJ
Sheesh, so now Rick was happy to have Dun and Troy? Um, pretty sure the guy he played a ton and liked despite the problems was Jackson. If you said he stuck with Jack too much then okay, there is evidence of that.

Troy lost playing time shortly after arriving, and Dun often sat for the entire 4th quarter.

But in your opinion that was a sign that Rick liked them. Talk about crazy bias, being so anti-Rick that you just assign any mediocre player as one of Rick's projects.

BTW, on that AJ love - when they signed Saras where did AJ go in RICK'S DEPTH CHART before Saras even played a single minute? That's right, 3rd on the bench with no playing time for several weeks. And when Tinsley returned from injury that season after AJ had a monster JAN-FEB run where did Tinsley go in the depth chart? That's right, back to starter where he proceeded to suck for a week or two before Rick saw the writing on the wall and put AJ back into the starters role.

AJ was an okay backup PG that at times played some pretty great games, but if that's what you call doing him a favor then I'd hate to see what happens to players Rick doesn't like.



Tom - I don't think it's par for course in the NBA, and honestly the issue even if it is normal (can't think of another example) is that it's different if it was an ASSISTANT that was actively with the team. I mean what exactly did Cleveland give the Pacers to hire Mike Brown?

Riley pushed a guy out so he could step in as the star, SVG apparently had some token "sorry bout that" paycheck, and Riley used that to say "we won't let him out of his contract if you don't give us a pick". Um, didn't he have a HEAD COACHING CONTRACT? Riley had no problem letting him out of that deal.

So yes, asking for a pick here is a no class move by NBA standards. If it's the norm then can someone give us NBA examples of it?

BigDawg44
06-08-2007, 12:04 PM
i would love compensation from seattle. u think they would be willing to part with the number 2 pick in order to have carlisle as their coach?

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 12:07 PM
I hope he tries to get a couple of players from his old team who already buy into his system. Say Murphy and Dunleavy I am pretty sure we could accommodate his new team with those players.


Of course I still think Bird will want to keep them so I have no hope. But Rick has a habit of liking very bad players who buy into his system. Think Curry, AJ
They can have Bird too if they want. Carlisle,Bird,Dunleavy and Murphy all for free.

avoidingtheclowns
06-08-2007, 12:20 PM
They can have Bird too if they want. Carlisle,Bird,Dunleavy and Murphy all for free.

and kravitz

OakMoses
06-08-2007, 02:23 PM
Tom - I don't think it's par for course in the NBA, and honestly the issue even if it is normal (can't think of another example) is that it's different if it was an ASSISTANT that was actively with the team. I mean what exactly did Cleveland give the Pacers to hire Mike Brown?

Riley pushed a guy out so he could step in as the star, SVG apparently had some token "sorry bout that" paycheck, and Riley used that to say "we won't let him out of his contract if you don't give us a pick". Um, didn't he have a HEAD COACHING CONTRACT? Riley had no problem letting him out of that deal.

So yes, asking for a pick here is a no class move by NBA standards. If it's the norm then can someone give us NBA examples of it?

SVG's official title with the Heat was "Consultant." I'm not sure what Rick's official front office title is with the Pacers, but it's far loftier than "consultant." Since I've heard no real bashing of Riley for demanding the pick for SVG, I'm assuming that it's not something that's raising too many eyebrows around the league. I think it's kind of a prick move, and many others on PD seem to agree, but I don't think asking for the pick is out of line if another team wants to sign Rick.

QuickRelease
06-08-2007, 03:02 PM
Would we be entitled to anything since we fired Rick? SVG was still under contract as a consultant. I hadn't heard anything regarding the front office position they offered to Rick. Did he take it? If not, we're probably not entitled to compensation.

pwee31
06-08-2007, 04:06 PM
If Rick is still with the organization in some form, we can ask for compensation. That's the whole thing with the Heat, though SVG was "fired" and Riley stepped in, the Heat kept him hired within the organization. He was under contract with them as a consultant, so to break that contract the Magic agreed to give up a 2nd rounder.

If Rick isn't under contract with us, then I couldn't see us getting anything. SInce Rick and Bird are friends, maybe Rick will go along with saying he had accepted the front office job and was under contract, then we could get a 2nd round pick from Seattle.

They do have 2 (#31,#35)

avoidingtheclowns
06-08-2007, 04:10 PM
apparently riley was asking for a much more than a 2nd rd. pick



...When University of Florida coach Billy Donovan changed his mind and asked for a release from his contract with the Magic, the team targeted Van Gundy immediately. However, Heat president Pat Riley wasn't going to allow Van Gundy to go to a division and in-state rival without requiring compensation for the man who was under contract as a consultant with the Heat through next season.'

Riley's original request for a first-round pick and $1 million from Orlando was too steep a price for the Magic, and when it appeared Riley would not back down from his offer, Van Gundy returned to Sacramento for his second visit with the Kings in less than a week with the intention of accepting a potential job offer from them.

However, negotiations between the Magic and Heat improved late Wednesday, and they decided on a compensation package that included a second-round pick this season (No. 39) and the possibility of swapping first-round picks next season, as long as the Magic's pick was not in the top 14. If the Heat chooses not to swap first-round picks, Miami would receive the Magic's second-round pick. The Heat didn't have a second-round pick in this draft before this deal...

http://www.miamiherald.com/592/story/132668.html

RWB
06-08-2007, 04:11 PM
There will be no compensation to the Ps as long as Rick does not ask the Ps to fulfill his contract. If Rick starts squeezing the money vise on the Pacers while agreeing to another coaching job, then you make see some action.

In the above post note the Heat wanted 1 million also? Could it be they wanted that cash because the Heat still owed SVG money? The million proably wouldn't even pass through the Heat fingertips before being sent into SVG's bank account.

Ragnar
06-08-2007, 05:03 PM
Ragnar, I don't think you've changed your position since 03/04.

Back then, AJ couldn't bring the ball up and was otherwise mistake prone.

What he did over the summers since was outstanding. I mean unbelievably outstanding.

In both spring 05 and spring 06, both Tinsley and JO went out and we had AJ at point and ran a motion offense featuring Reggie (05) and Peja (06). Not only did those periods come with a fantastic W/L record AND great play from AJ, it also represented the most fun I've had watching the pacers for the entirety of the last 3 seasons.

AJ was the best PG we had when you combine health, talent, and team play.

The criticism that AJ was not a real PG is an obsolete position. AJ sure as hell played like a starting PG during our runs to the playoffs both seasons.

Was he ever going to lead us to a championship? No. He's not THAT good. But I'm not arguing that.

Was he better suited for another position? No. He was not a PG that relied on talent at the position. he had to WORK and STUDY to become worthy of the position and that's just what he did.

For all the natural talent Tinsley has, I'll still take AJ (as of a year ago) 7 times out of 10.


Your memory of AJ has gotten a lot more rosey yes it was nice that he scored 40 in a playoff game. But lets not forget that it was against his former team, the team who did not want to re sign him even for the league minimum. Players tend to be a little more motivated in those situations. Lets also not forget that we lost that game, or that he was not able to initiate the offense.

Even Jamison Brewer had a monster game.

Lets also forget that not even a year into his tenure in Dallas they dumped him for a future 2nd round pick.

denyfizle
06-10-2007, 01:44 PM
and kravitz

i'd let them rent bowser for the sasquatch in Seattle to pick on for a year if they'd take Bob.

Naptown_Seth
06-10-2007, 05:07 PM
SVG's official title with the Heat was "Consultant." I'm not sure what Rick's official front office title is with the Pacers, but it's far loftier than "consultant." Since I've heard no real bashing of Riley for demanding the pick for SVG, I'm assuming that it's not something that's raising too many eyebrows around the league. I think it's kind of a prick move, and many others on PD seem to agree, but I don't think asking for the pick is out of line if another team wants to sign Rick.
That still doesn't give me an example of where else it was done in the NBA, especially for any non-coach (ast included).

NFL - yes, par for course big time. But not the NBA. Maybe eyebrows didn't go up because no one cared where SVG was going and a lot more focus was on DOVOVAN passing on the job instead. Probably most people assume Riley is exactly this kind of jerk too.

I mean what did the PISTONS get from the KNICKS for Larry Brown? Last I checked Brown got a huge paycheck from DET and that was it.

SVG could easily quit his Heat job, thus eliminating any leverage for picks as far as I can see. Isn't that how Brown basically went to NY, by being a big enough jerk to get bought out?


Forget Orlando, this is between Riley and SVG. SVG wants a new job, Riley is telling SVG, not Orlando, that he can't take it (unless they bribe him). To me that suggests that SVG is still in sword-falling mode for Riley, no surprise there I guess. SVG probably refused to not get paid by the Heat even though he was about to start getting paid by the Magic and that's where Riley probably had leverage...leverage SVG wanted him to have for his own self-serving reasons (that actually went against his new team).

I wonder if Orlando will even field a team in the 4 meetings with the Heat. Conflict of interest comes to mind considering how things have gone with SVG and Miami.