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View Full Version : What's Carlisles final decision?



Evan_The_Dude
06-06-2007, 09:37 PM
Or did he make one yet? I know he has the option of taking a Front Office position with the Pacers. Is he officially an ESPN employee or is he just a temporary analyst? Anybody know?

Kegboy
06-06-2007, 10:00 PM
I believe he has until June 15th. Yesterday I heard he was still a leading candidate for the Seattle job.

ChicagoJ
06-06-2007, 10:58 PM
The Seattle finalists are Rick, PJ Carlisimo, and Casey.

If I were Bo Hill, I'd apply for that opening. He's better than those choices. :devil:

avoidingtheclowns
06-06-2007, 11:28 PM
can stan van gundy be offered that job too?

Will Galen
06-07-2007, 12:21 AM
can stan van gundy be offered that job too?

Stan agreed to be the head coach there but he wants to keep his options open for the Kings and Magic jobs. (grin)

Jermaniac
06-07-2007, 01:54 AM
I hope Rick gets the job so I can see him ruin somebody else's team for 3 years.

Young
06-07-2007, 01:58 AM
I'm hoping that Rick is an analyst. I really enjoy listening to him. He knows the game very well.

maragin
06-07-2007, 06:10 AM
I hope Rick is there to take over the Celtics when they fire Doc Rivers.

Naptown_Seth
06-07-2007, 09:51 AM
I hope Rick gets the job so I can see him ruin somebody else's team for 3 years.
That's what Detroit thought, then he turned a floundering team into their chief division rival instantly. So IMO if he goes to Seattle thank god it isn't in the East or the Central even, we don't need another GS fiasco blowing up in our faces.

The dude didn't win all those games on a freaking goof. Look at his first DET roster for chrissake, it wasn't much better than what he had to start working with midseason last year. If he ends up in Seattle and they drop 45 wins it will make the Pacers look flat-out stupid.

I'd like to return to the days where if someone left Indy they never had as much success after that, not where they are on prime time TV and all the buzz of the sports world while the Pacers have zero talking points due to no pick and no apparent hope for the immediate future.

In other words, I pray that RC stays with Indy and ESPN rather than coaching someplace else.

Unclebuck
06-07-2007, 10:09 AM
I hope Rick gets the Sonics job. The NBA can always use excellent coaches

ajbry
06-07-2007, 10:11 AM
Rick is a cool guy and I wouldn't mind him staying on ESPN, considering he's one of the few analysts there who actually know what the hell they're talking about.

Hicks
06-07-2007, 10:59 AM
Make us look stupid? If he wasn't doing what the GM wanted him to do, and/or if the players were sick of him, it's time to move on.

avoidingtheclowns
06-07-2007, 12:53 PM
Make us look stupid? If he wasn't doing what the GM wanted him to do, and/or if the players were sick of him, it's time to move on.

i guess it is an interesting question: are GMs responsible for building a team to fit the coach they have or build a team to fit a style they'd like to see played?

i hate the argument about players tuning him out in rick's case. 10/15 players were in their first season for carlisle. tinsley tuned him out around day one. danny doesn't seem like the type that would tune a coach out, at least during his second professional season. harrison - is he still on the team? foster, people complained about rick's management of the offense...something tells me jeff wouldn't have a lot to add to that conversation. which leaves us with jermaine...

the offense was tailored around him and we didn't have the outside shooting to open the game up for him. if management really wanted to go in a new direction they should have changed coaches at the same time last year not tried to force a new vision onto a coach that has a style. would nelson be considered a good coach if chris mullin traded for a bunch of slower-paced, defensively focused players?

is it a GM's job to set the tone or enhance the current tone?

Oneal07
06-07-2007, 01:02 PM
Rick is a cool guy and I wouldn't mind him staying on ESPN, considering he's one of the few analysts there who actually know what the hell they're talking about.


LOL, So True. . .I hate watching those ESPN guys, they are so clueless. Jon Barry is like I expect Detroit to beat Cleveland in 5. . .. Then he's like, OH Cleveland, can win this series. If he was on TNT, they would have exposed him

avoidingtheclowns
06-07-2007, 01:22 PM
LOL, So True. . .I hate watching those ESPN guys, they are so clueless. Jon Barry is like I expect Detroit to beat Cleveland in 5. . .. Then he's like, OH Cleveland, can win this series. If he was on TNT, they would have exposed him

other than wilbon, ESPN's basketball coverage is a joke. although i tend to think that about any company that employs bill walton.

RWB
06-07-2007, 02:34 PM
So IMO if he goes to Seattle thank god it isn't in the East or the Central even, we don't need another GS fiasco blowing up in our faces.

The dude didn't win all those games on a freaking goof. Look at his first DET roster for chrissake, it wasn't much better than what he had to start working with midseason last year. If he ends up in Seattle and they drop 45 wins it will make the Pacers look flat-out stupid.


So do we take it you would have preferred the Pacers keep Al, SJax, and kept Rick to coach them or were there other choices we were not aware of?

indyman37
06-07-2007, 03:47 PM
I think Carlisle needs to leave the Pacers. Not for the organization, but for himself. I noticed after he was fired, he seemed to be very relieved, much happier, and looser. I just think RC would be better off with a different team.

Fool
06-07-2007, 04:52 PM
I'd miss the jarringly different perspective Indy fans have on Carlisle if he left. I'm not about to start lurking a Sonic board.

lafayettepacer
06-07-2007, 05:14 PM
I'd like to return to the days where if someone left Indy they never had as much success after that, not where they are on prime time TV and all the buzz of the sports world while the Pacers have zero talking points due to no pick and no apparent hope for the immediate future.

Kind of like Isaiah? :)

Naptown_Seth
06-08-2007, 02:20 PM
Make us look stupid? If he wasn't doing what the GM wanted him to do, and/or if the players were sick of him, it's time to move on.
Errr...

GM - "I want you to rub poop all over my face and kick me in the shin"

Coach - "I don't want to do that, but I'd like to give you free money and make your team a winner."

GM - "No thanks, just the kick n poop. I guess this isn't working out, you have to go."

New team - "We'll take the money and wins please."


So you don't look stupid for firing a guy if it turns out that he's fine but what you wanted or were doing was completely wrong/foolish??? I missed a logic jump somewhere in your reasoning.

Since when did anyone look smart for throwing away something good? You throw out a $100K DaVinci painting, I find it and sell it and no one is going to question your judgement in the least? They sure aren't going to think much of your ability to evaluate art at least.


Come on Buck, my point was all too clear. You're just assuming that Rick was the problem so it was smart to let him go. My point is that if the team continues to struggle and Rick goes to another team that suddenly gets better, it isn't going to look too good for management.

Just as by the same logic if the team does get better and Rick's new team flounders then management will look smart.

I'm willing to play fair on the logic both ways, and if the results go in favor of the TPTB then I'll cop to it.

I've seen Rick make 2 teams instantly better without needing new players. I haven't seen much in the way of productive roster moves in the last 3-4 years from TPTB. I think the logic of why I would expect things to go "in favor of Rick" at this point is pretty solid.

I mean this just in, I expect it to be pretty hot most of July. Sure it could be 32 degrees, but for some reason my gut says it won't.

Hicks
06-08-2007, 02:23 PM
So you don't look stupid for firing a guy if it turns out that he's fine but what you wanted or were doing was completely wrong/foolish??? I missed a logic jump somewhere in your reasoning.

It's simple: Jim O'Brien seems to be bringing what Larry wants, and they seem very much on the same page. Rick couldn't do that for more than 8 games. He also obviously ****ed off a lot of our players (over multiple years). What's so hard to see in that? That in now way makes Rick a bad coach for the NBA; he IS a good coach for the NBA. But it was time to move on from THIS job. It's not all-or-nothing "he's bad" or "he's good" forever and always no matter where he goes. That's insane. That's all there is to what I'm saying.

Naptown_Seth
06-08-2007, 02:29 PM
So do we take it you would have preferred the Pacers keep Al, SJax, and kept Rick to coach them or were there other choices we were not aware of?
A) that team just made the playoffs at least (they were right on track)

B) what, we AREN'T trying to trade JO right now, all trading ended the day of the GS trade, well before the NBA trade deadline even?

C) Jackson and AL make LESS than Troy and Dun. They just got some pub for their playoff efforts (in theory). Jack got past his trial and that's no longer an issue for another club to worry about, you have plenty of OPTIONS to trade them other than the GS deal at that exact moment.

D) Jazz somehow found another option other than firing Sloan when the Jazz missed the playoffs. How'd that work out?

E) Jack goes to jail instead, contract void, cap relief. Instead of Troy you have $8-9 million to go toward TWO bench players instead of one.


So yeah, there were options. Al was being a baby, tough crap. Play or sit, your choice.

The idea that the ONLY OPTION was to trade AL and Jackson for bench players with big contracts and then to fire one of 2 coaches to ever start his career with 3 straight division wins and with 2 different 10+ win turnarounds in his very shot career, and with a 33% rate of reaching the ECF and an 83% rate of making the playoffs is the idea that makes no sense to me.

Naptown_Seth
06-08-2007, 02:46 PM
It's simple: Jim O'Brien seems to be bringing what Larry wants, and they seem very much on the same page. Rick couldn't do that for more than 8 games. He also obviously ****ed off a lot of our players (over multiple years). What's so hard to see in that? That in now way makes Rick a bad coach for the NBA; he IS a good coach for the NBA. But it was time to move on from THIS job. It's not all-or-nothing "he's bad" or "he's good" forever and always no matter where he goes. That's insane. That's all there is to what I'm saying.
Yes, but you act like that contradicts my point when it clearly doesn't.

TPTB may have a vision that differs from what Rick was trying to do, but that doesn't make them look smart for firing him.

I have a vision for my finances than my accountant or tax advisor don't agree with, so I fire them and cost myself $10K. Yep, I don't look dumb at all.

If firing Rick actually does make the team better then okay, and if it makes them look better while Rick doesn't go on to be a great coach elsewhere then okay.

But if the Pacers aren't clearly better and Rick proves himself as a great coach a 3rd time then they look dumb. They had the one guy that was making the RIGHT decisions, going against all their bad ones, and rather than recognizing that they said, stubbornly it would seem, "time to move on so we can do it our way".

They have the right to run the team however they want, they don't have to listen to Rick or do things his way, but if you have an advisor in ANY situation who makes great choices and has a lot of success from those choices then you are a fool if you ignore his advice in order to go rogue in pursuit of your own goals.

That is unless you are equally as smart and somehow had a totally different but equal smart version of how to have success.

Right now that version is as follows - to bring in 2 players for big money who have never made the playoffs right in the middle of our own playoff chase and ride them to the top.

Seriously, that is the ACTUAL CHOICE they made, that's the vision you are saying is smart enough to assume that despite differing with a coach who's vision had led him to the playoffs over and over it was probably the right move.

Rick couldn't see that vision, didn't want to play the style where Dun and Troy make your team into a 2nd round contender rather than first round fodder where they might have been headed prior to the deal.

If you say so. I must be :cool:

RWB
06-08-2007, 03:33 PM
A) that team just made the playoffs at least (they were right on track)

So just making the playoffs (Pacers) would be fine?

B) what, we AREN'T trying to trade JO right now, all trading ended the day of the GS trade, well before the NBA trade deadline even?

Good point

C) Jackson and AL make LESS than Troy and Dun. They just got some pub for their playoff efforts (in theory). Jack got past his trial and that's no longer an issue for another club to worry about, you have plenty of OPTIONS to trade them other than the GS deal at that exact moment.

Ike and Keith make LESS than Cabbage

D) Jazz somehow found another option other than firing Sloan when the Jazz missed the playoffs. How'd that work out?

Sorry, but either you have to replace the coach or the players when almost every player is complaining. We're not talking just one disgrutled person here. An entire team in turmoil or did we forget the comments like Change the Culture, Was not enjoyable coming to work, Maybe I need to complain like Ron did, and more

E) Jack goes to jail instead, contract void, cap relief. Instead of Troy you have $8-9 million to go toward TWO bench players instead of one.

Can't argue this answer other than I didn't know the Pacers would be able to void Jack's contract

So yeah, there were options. Al was being a baby, tough crap. Play or sit, your choice.

So it's a good idea to once again pay someone 7 million plus to set on the bench or sent home like they Ps did with Artest?

The idea that the ONLY OPTION was to trade AL and Jackson for bench players with big contracts Jackson had a good series no doubt, but Al still appears to be an expensive bench playerand then to fire one of 2 coaches to ever start his career with 3 straight division wins and with 2 different 10+ win turnarounds in his very shot career, and with a 33% rate of reaching the ECF and an 83% rate of making the playoffs is the idea that makes no sense to me. Once again who was at fault here for the mediocre play Rick or the players?

I wish the Ps could have made better trades, but we'll never know if anyone was biting.

avoidingtheclowns
06-08-2007, 03:47 PM
I'm not sure if this qualifies as news per se... but Presti seems to prefer Carlisle.


Sonics hand reins to Presti

By Percy Allen
Seattle Times staff reporter

Sam Presti didn't wait long in the wings before his boss gave him his cue.

After a few flattering words from Sonics owner Clay Bennett and top adviser Lenny Wilkens, the team's new general manager stepped through black curtains and on stage for his introductory news conference.
Presti, who assumed the team's top basketball decision-making role Thursday when Bennett announced the team was vacating the president's title held by Wilkens, described the job as "an opportunity of great potential."

The former San Antonio Spurs assistant GM also thanked his previous employers, particularly owner Peter Holt, coach Gregg Popovich and general manager R.C. Buford.

With everyone inside the room hanging on his every word, Presti attempted to lighten the mood with a self-deprecating wisecrack after a short opening statement.

"With that, I will open it up and we can start talking about my birthday," said the 11th general manager in Sonics history, bringing a few giggles from the small crowd of media and club officials.

The 30-year-old, who becomes the NBA's youngest GM Houston's Daryl Morey (35) and Portland's Kevin Pritchard (39) come next clearly knows how to work a room.
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It's also clear that during his seven years with the Spurs, where he started as an intern in 2000, Presti built a reputation as an extraordinary talent evaluator and salary-cap guru.

"When I interviewed Sam, initially I, of course, had the age in the front of my mind," Bennett said. "When I sat down with him, I never thought about it again. At the end, I thought it was an asset."

Applying the "apple-doesn't-fall-far-from-the-tree" rationale, Bennett plucked Presti from a San Antonio organization that is seeking to capture its fourth NBA championship in nine years.

"I view the San Antonio Spurs as the premier franchise in our business, and Sam Presti has clearly had an important role in that organization, contributed to their winning and the way they do business over the course of his tenure," Bennett said. "And that brought him to the table, but that is not why he got the job.

"He got the job because of who he is and how he does things and what he stands for. He is thoughtful. He is methodical. He is measured. He is very bright. And he is very likeable. He has a value system and demeanor very much in line with our ownership group, and I believe he has the skill set and perspective which will fit the challenge in building this organization."
Bennett is so confident in Presti, he gave him autonomy in basketball operations by stripping Wilkens of the president's title and decision-making responsibilities he held for just six weeks. Wilkens will remain as vice chairman of the ownership group, the Professional Basketball Club, and will continue to serve as a senior advisor to Bennett.

"I'm really looking forward to working with Sam Presti," Wilkens said.
Assistant general manager Rich Cho will continue in his role and Dave Pendergraft, director of basketball operations, and Steve Rosenberry, director of college scouting, are expected to remain in their positions at least through the June 28 draft.

While Pendergraft and Rosenberry led a workout with draft prospects across town at the team's training facility, Presti was intentionally vague about his plans for the No. 2 pick because "I don't want to lock myself into anything."

Admittedly, finding a coach to replace Bob Hill, who was released at the end of the season, is the team's top priority.

"The process will take as long as it takes," Presti said.

He declined to speak specifically about coaching candidates, but a team source characterized the search as a potential power struggle between the new GM, the owner and the players.

According to the source, Presti will likely recommend former Indiana coach Rick Carlisle, who has a track record of regular-season success. Bennett is believed to be in favor of San Antonio assistant P.J. Carlesimo, and several players, notably co-captains Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis, are likely to endorse ex-Minnesota coach Dwane Casey, who spent 11 seasons as a Sonics assistant.

The Sonics are expected to begin interviews next week.

Presti and Bennett flew to San Antonio on Thursday to attend Game 1 of the NBA Finals, but a team official said they were not going there to speak with Carlesimo.

"Choosing a head coach, that's a pivotal decision," Presti said. "I feel strongly that the successful organizations in the NBA, sports and business in general, are driven philosophically. I believe that what separates them is culture and identity, and those are going to be two focuses as we build this thing for the long haul.

"The successful organizations in the NBA are philosophically driven and there's an identity to which they play the game. I want to see our organization defined by selflessness, professionalism, integrity and resiliency. Those will be the core components we're looking for on the floor and also in our offices."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2003739184_soni08.html


Given his track record (believing Tony Parker was a great PG when Popp wanted no part of him) I'm thinking Seattle will defer to his judgement on this first act for the team. So it may be Rick's if he wants it.

ABADays
06-08-2007, 10:13 PM
Carlisle is going to win wherever he goes. He's a winner.

Jermaniac
06-08-2007, 10:17 PM
Rick Carlisle will never coach a team to a championship in his life. He may have a whole bunch of season where he wins 50 games but he will never win a championship.

speakout4
06-09-2007, 08:22 AM
We desperately need a "kick the dead horse" award because there are so many deserving participants.

Try this: Two people marry and can't get alone; they divorce and remarry and live happily ever after. They were incompatible, not bad mates. Why is this hard to understand?