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maragin
06-05-2007, 03:20 PM
Stein's notebook: Odom unhappy about possible Pacers trade

http://assets.espn.go.com/i/columnists/Stein_Marc_55.jpg (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=marc_stein&name=SEARCH_m_archive&srvc=sz) By Marc Stein
ESPN.com
(Archive (http://x.go.com/cgi/x.pl?goto=http://search.espn.go.com/keyword/search?searchString=marc_stein&name=SEARCH_m_archive&srvc=sz))

<!-- promo plug --> <!-- end story header --><!-- begin left column --> <!-- begin page tools --> Updated: May 28, 2007
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Print (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2893692&type=story) <!-- end page tools --><!-- begin story body --> <!-- template inline -->Not quite sure why there's a vibe in circulation that the Lakers trading for Jermaine O'Neal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3120), as a means of appeasing Kobe Bryant (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3118), is some sort of new concept.
Haven't we been talking about this for more than a month (http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2848468&searchName=stein_marc)?
Wasn't it more like April when this idea was broached, with O'Neal letting it slip (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-070414-15) in Indiana that he wouldn't mind winding up in Lakerland and Kobe struggling to restrain himself as he spoke of teaming up with his pal from the 1996 draft?
"There's not a lot I can say about it right now," Bryant offered some six weeks ago, long before his recent spree of hourly interviews to advance the idea that he wants to leave L.A. "But if it gets to the point that Jermaine wants to be here instead of Indy, we'd love to have him. We'd be crazy not to."

http://espn.go.com/photo/2006/1120/pg2_kobe_195.jpgLisa Blumenfeld/Getty Images
Kobe would love to play with Jermaine O'Neal. Later, Lamar?


As stated in this cyberspace a week ago (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=2884663&name=stein_marc), I've heard nothing in the last month to sway me from the belief that O'Neal is the most realistic big-time trade target for L.A., far more realistic than Jason Kidd (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=2625) or Kevin Garnett (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3007). The Pacers, according to NBA front office sources, are increasingly open to moving their center -- especially to a Western Conference team -- and have expressed interest in Lakers forward Lamar Odom (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3327), center Andrew Bynum (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3936), Kwame Brown's expiring contract and the Lakers' first-round pick later this month which is only a so-so pick at No. 19 until you remember that Indy, at present, has no first-round pick.
The new wrinkle here?
It's the increasing volume on rumblings that Odom doesn't want to go to Indiana.
He might not have a choice, obviously, with the Lakers believed to be desperate to make some sort of statement trade to appease Bryant before the June 28 draft.
But sources close to Odom indicate the 27-year-old would be "quite unhappy" if he's sent to the Pacers in an O'Neal deal and that it would take a three-year contract extension from the Pacers (or any team that makes a move for him) to get Odom "on board" with a trade. No word yet on how that might factor into Indy's decision making.
The lanky lefty has two seasons left on his contract after this season runs out, at $13.2 million and $14.1 million. Packaging Odom and Bynum would get the Lakers close to O'Neal's salary-cap number -- $18.1 million if the trade happened before the draft and $19.8 million if it happened after July 1 -- but at least one other low-salaried Laker (such as Sasha Vujacic (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3844)) would have to be included.
The Lakers are expected to resist Indy's efforts to expand the deal to include Jamaal Tinsley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3528), even though they need a point guard as much as anything, because plugging a non-shooter like Tinsley into Phil Jackson's triangle offense holds little appeal.
If you're thinking, incidentally, that Odom and Bynum is a lot to give up for O'Neal -- even without a draft choice thrown in -- you'll surely recall that the Lakers had an opportunity to trade for Kidd in February without including Odom. Bynum and Brown's expiring contract would have been the Jersey-bound cornerstones of that deal -- creating a Bryant-Kidd-Odom trio -- but Bynum still had an untouchable tag at that point. That's no longer the case, according to L.A. sources.
Of course, leverage to make a not-so-lopsided deal is something that the Lakers have a lot less of than they did before Bryant's back-and-forth "trade me/scratch that" media blitz. Bryant hammered the Lakers' front office about as loudly as possible with his criticisms of their decisions and/or inaction since trading Shaquille O'Neal (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=847) away in the summer of 2004, but "crippled" is the word used by one source close to the situation to describe the position Bryant's bosses find themselves in as a result.

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They couldn't stop the comparisons to Utah's famed Stockton-to-Malone connection if they wanted to now, but here's something to distinguish Carlos Boozer (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3632) and Deron Williams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3929) from their famous predecessors:
You could argue that they're already even tighter that Karl Malone and John Stockton were.
One example: You'll note that, throughout the Western Conference finals, Boozer and Williams went to the post-game interview podium as a tandem after every game but Game 5.
Malone and Stockton were magic on the floor together, but typically detached from each other's hips as soon as the game was over.
Asked why they wanted to do all of their interviews as a tag team, Boozer said: "We're just that close."

<hr>http://espn-att.starwave.com/i/teamlogos/nba/med/trans/sac.gif (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sac)

Sacramento's Ron Artest (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3339) says he isn't sure if ongoing whispers that Miami's Pat Riley wants him badly -- or the idea that the Lakers might make another run at him -- are genuine.
Either way, Artest sounds more like he's expecting to be in Sactown when next season starts.
"I think the Kings will make the best decision for the Sacramento fans," Artest said over the weekend. "And that means winning and getting a group of guys who want to play with each other and win games with each other.
"I had my best individual season of my career, but I didn't reach my potential yet. I'm looking forward to getting back in October with the team. I like how we ended our season as far as playing to the very end."
It's hard to argue with Artest -- statistically speaking -- after he played in 70 games for just the fourth time in eight pro seasons and averaged 18.8 points, 6.5 rebounds and 2.1 steals per game. Yet his first full season in Sacramento was also marked by various off-court scrapes and retirement flirtations that brought a hasty end to his savior status in town. The big mystery in Sactown beyond the wait for a new coach -- Kurt Rambis apparently moves to front-runner status if the Magic can beat the Kings to Stan Van Gundy as their Billy Donovan fallback -- is whether Artest and/or Mike Bibby (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3245) will make it to October as Kings.
Asked specifically about the Heat and Lakers, Artest would only say, "I definitely have a tremendous amount of respect for both teams."

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As loud as the outcry was when the Suns' Amare Stoudemire (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3607) and Boris Diaw (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3724) were suspended for Game 5 of the Phoenix-San Antonio series, you shouldn't assume that commissioner David Stern would have been widely backed had he pardoned Stoudemire and Diaw after they began to move in the direction of fallen teammate Steve Nash (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3103), caught themselves when they realized they were guilty of leaving the bench, and scrambled back to their seats.
Don't you think that the most vociferous media pocket of them all -- Gotham's -- might have had something to say about double standards? The Knicks, don't forget, absorbed four leaving-the-bench, series-altering suspensions stemming from a Game 5 altercation in a 1997 second-round tussle with Miami and wound up losing the next two games to blow all of their 3-1 series lead.
As for that Knicks team and how it would have responded to Stoudemire and Diaw avoiding suspension, then-coach Jeff Van Gundy says: "Guess what? Everyone's moved on and doing fine."
Although he believes to this day that only three of his players merited suspensions -- Allan Houston (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=1282), Larry Johnson and John Starks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=324), but not Patrick Ewing (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=106) -- Van Gundy concedes that his team "screwed up" in that incident. In his new role as a TV analyst for ABC and ESPN, Van Gundy maintains that the Phoenix-San Antonio tangle was a lot milder and argues that Stoudemire, Diaw and even San Antonio's Robert Horry (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=830) -- whose body check on Nash triggered the commotion -- shouldn't have been suspended.

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It's a franchise that has to live with drafting LaRue Martin over Bob McAdoo with the No. 1 overall pick of the 1972 draft.
It's a franchise that also has to live with taking Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan with the No. 2 overall pick in 1984.
So maybe Portland really is willing to go for Kevin Durant over Greg Oden, since passing on the versatile, highly skilled scorer for size didn't exactly work out the last two times.
Right?
Uh, no.
Said one Eastern Conference executive of Blazers general manager Kevin Pritchard: "If he wants to be the GM in Portland for the next 10, 12 years, he'll take Oden. If he wants to be GM for three or four years, he'll draft Durant."

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/mailbagESPN?event_id=3033).

Jermaniac
06-05-2007, 03:24 PM
Nobody with any sense would want to play for this team. Players who are fresh out of luck and that no body wants come to play here.

indyman37
06-05-2007, 03:26 PM
Well if Odom doesn't want to come here...surprise, surprise...a three-team trade sounds all the more better. Especially one that includes Boston. If there was some way, some miraculous way, to get the 5th and 19th pick...I would buy Larry Bird a crown.

OakMoses
06-05-2007, 03:27 PM
Odom needs to suck it up. I'm not mad about him not wanting to play in Indy. Honestly, I couldn't care less where he wants to play. But his bit about a 3 year contract extension is bunk. He's making 14 million a year. This is an indicator of the bad attitude that's plagued him his whole career.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 03:27 PM
I'm sure Bird and Walsh will have a talk with Odom to calm him down and make him understand that this is business rather then entertainment.

RWB
06-05-2007, 03:28 PM
Nobody with any sense would want to play for this team. Players who are fresh out of luck and that no body wants come to play here.

Not true, unless they prefer not to be paid ungodly amounts of money to play a game.

indyman37
06-05-2007, 03:28 PM
The Lakers are expected to resist Indy's efforts to expand the deal to include Jamaal Tinsley (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3528), even though they need a point guard as much as anything, because plugging a non-shooter like Tinsley into Phil Jackson's triangle offense holds little appeal.
I couldn't help myself to do anything but chuckle at this statement.

Jermaniac
06-05-2007, 03:33 PM
Not true, unless they prefer not to be paid ungodly amounts of money to play a game.They can get paid ungodly amounts on other teams also. While the Indiana Pacers chose to pay ungodly amounts to players who cant play basketball worth ****.

Robobtowncolt
06-05-2007, 03:38 PM
Hi, I'm Lamar Odom. I want a big, honking contract extension while I'm still in my prime. You can ignore pretty much everything else I say because that's all I'm angling for. Best to do it now, I'm only one strike from a lengthy league suspension! I've probably matured a tremendous amount since those Clipper days, but hey, you never know what might happen if I'm unhappy in a new city.........:usa:

Y2J
06-05-2007, 03:38 PM
That articles over a week old, for the record. But of course Odom probably still doesn't wanna be here, and quite frankly, I was never that into him being here. My best hope would be he'd come here, have a career year to boast his trade value, then we'd move him for a backcourt star.


I'd just assume move Odom along for backcourt help and expiring contracts.Maybe to Boston for Green + Ratliff + future protected 1st? Bynum is who I want.

RWB
06-05-2007, 03:39 PM
They can get paid ungodly amounts on other teams also. While the Indiana Pacers chose to pay ungodly amounts to players who cant play basketball worth ****.


Not with the salary cap Jerm.

Hicks
06-05-2007, 03:39 PM
My thought:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?p=558337

idioteque
06-05-2007, 03:40 PM
I hate to say it but I don't blame Odom for not wanting to come here. Danny Granger is our 3 of the future, and Ike Diogu is most likely our 4 of the future. A lot of people also think that it is possible for Shawne Williams to play the 4. I don't think Odom would get lost in the shuffle by any means, but he probably wouldn't get as much PT as he would in LA.

I would hope that TPTB would find some way to lure him into going along with it. Otherwise a 3 way deal would be interesting. However if it appears that there is no way Odom will play here and we can only do a two team treade, we can't pull the trigger on a deal to send Odom elsewhere (like when Rasheed was traded to the Pistons after playing one game for the Hawks) until we find him a definite suitor.

No way the TPTB in their right mind give Odom a three year extension. In fact because of his health issues I don't even see a team with a lot of room in the cap like the Bobcats giving him that sort of extension. He'll end up settling for less.

I'd still love to see him in a Pacers uniform, but I don't think I'd want him for more than two years. If Ike and Shawne develop he'll be expendable.

However, the fact that he might not come here, as a Pacers fan I just feel like :box: that guy on the left!

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 03:43 PM
By the way just to clear some air players do this all the time and then they settle down.

LO is a classy person you have to understand that. hes not trying to damage anything he likes it in LA and he will be heartbroken if he left but I'm sure he will get through it.

OnlyPacersLeft
06-05-2007, 04:03 PM
awesome! I'd love to bring in a guy who doesn't want to play here! Odom has been through a lot with his family as of recent and I don't think moving would be good for them. Esp not to a state like indiana...no disrespect but it just isn't everyones first choice to live in.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 04:05 PM
awesome! I'd love to bring in a guy who doesn't want to play here! Odom has been through a lot with his family as of recent and I don't think moving would be good for them. Esp not to a state like indiana...no disrespect but it just isn't everyones first choice to live in.

There is plenty of players who play for places there not happy in.

for example do you think Carlos Boozer is thrilled playing in Utah? probably not.

Arcadian
06-05-2007, 04:08 PM
Idle gossip. Until Odom critizes Pacer management, says he won't play here then retract that statement I'm not going to believe a word he says.

OnlyPacersLeft
06-05-2007, 04:08 PM
Hi, I'm Lamar Odom. I want a big, honking contract extension while I'm still in my prime. You can ignore pretty much everything else I say because that's all I'm angling for. Best to do it now, I'm only one strike from a lengthy league suspension! I've probably matured a tremendous amount since those Clipper days, but hey, you never know what might happen if I'm unhappy in a new city.........:usa:

right...isn't this guy a drug head? Was it cocaine? or just mary jane? He thinks he's that good doesn't he? WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW....stay in LA odom...we'll keep JO...and when your playing with only smush parker...you can whine then.

Robobtowncolt
06-05-2007, 04:12 PM
Uh, I mean, he had a couple positive marijuana tests in his early years. By all measurable accounts (and he's tested frequently), he's matured significantly since then and hasn't been a problem. But still can't ignore the fact that he's a bad descision away from missing a lot of time.

indygeezer
06-05-2007, 04:18 PM
They can get paid ungodly amounts on other teams also. While the Indiana Pacers chose to pay ungodly amounts to players who cant play basketball worth ****.


So why do you continue to follow them? I mean if no good players will come here and the ones that are here are overpaid crap...why not root for LA or Utah or someone else? Seems like if you truely feel that way about the team you support you would move on (not just you, but anyone)

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 04:19 PM
Idle gossip. Until Odom critizes Pacer management, says he won't play here then retract that statement I'm not going to believe a word he says.

I also think this is a little irrelevant didn't a Indiana news station report that Odom expects to be traded to Indiana? I'm sure someone here said they heard it.

Mourning
06-05-2007, 04:22 PM
right...isn't this guy a drug head? Was it cocaine? or just mary jane? He thinks he's that good doesn't he? WOWWWWWWWWWWWWW....stay in LA odom...we'll keep JO...and when your playing with only smush parker...you can whine then.

Yeah, we keep JO and stay in nowhere land for several years and THEN when he moves to another team or retires or whatever THEN we go to the lottery. Cheezzz that's a great plan, captain! :suicide:.

We need to trade him for up and coming players and an established player and spare change. We traded DD for him, while he was waisting away on the Trailblazers bench, remember?

Sometimes you take a risk, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you take your loss, but you take what you gain. Going nowhere is not the option I want this team to take.

I have already, unwillingly, accepted the idea that Jamaal is probably going to be here next season, but if we want to move this team into a different direction with a new perspective we need to make a significant trade this summer before JO breaks down any further, eats more from our salary room, plays less games, etc.

I like the dude, but he's our most valuable asset to other teams and it's time to use that value to move the team into a new course, something we should have done last summer allready.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

JayRedd
06-05-2007, 04:25 PM
So why do you continue to follow them? I mean if no good players will come here and the ones that are here are overpaid crap...why not root for LA or Utah or someone else? Seems like if you truely feel that way about the team you support you would move on (not just you, but anyone)

Speaking for anyone....

Because a real man doesn't switch teams past say 15 years old (and that's generous).

It's not the fans fault this team/front office has ****ed the dog for the past four years. Aint nothing wrong with saying how it really is. And how it is aint good.

RWB
06-05-2007, 04:37 PM
Speaking for anyone....

Because a real man doesn't switch teams past say 15 years old (and that's generous).

It's not the fans fault this team/front office has ****ed the dog for the past four years. Aint nothing wrong with saying how it really is. And how it is aint good.

I think Geez is saying the constant negativity is getting old.

ABADays
06-05-2007, 04:38 PM
They can get paid ungodly amounts on other teams also. While the Indiana Pacers chose to pay ungodly amounts to players who cant play basketball worth ****.

Not to mention paying franchise player money to to someone who can't even come close to performing like one.

And to OnlyPacersLeft - there are a lot of players who initially don't appear to want to come to Indiana. But there are a lot of players who came here who stayed here.

Since86
06-05-2007, 04:40 PM
There is plenty of players who play for places there not happy in.

for example do you think Carlos Boozer is thrilled playing in Utah? probably not.

Considering Boozer signed with Utah as a free agent, and stuck it to Cleveland by breaking a verbal agreement to do so, then I would say "yes" he is happy to be there.

BTW he lived in Alaska before he went to college, so I doubt Utah is that big of a deal.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 04:42 PM
Not to mention paying franchise player money to to someone who can't even come close to performing like one.

And to OnlyPacersLeft - there are a lot of players who initially don't appear to want to come to Indiana. But there are a lot of players who came here who stayed here.

Yep and also he could be upset because Phil told him what to do for next year in a Laker uniform; it could be the fact that he was spoiled in believing that he was gonna stay a Laker. but things change he will get over it if not then Bird will void his contract and poof its done with.

Jermaniac
06-05-2007, 04:50 PM
So why do you continue to follow them? I mean if no good players will come here and the ones that are here are overpaid crap...why not root for LA or Utah or someone else? Seems like if you truely feel that way about the team you support you would move on (not just you, but anyone)Because I dont want to switch teams. If you like pretending that everything is great with this team go right ahead, but nothing about this team has me thinking positive, well other then Jermaine.

When I was being positive and praising all our players. I was called a fan boy by YOU, now that I'm negative I should switch teams. Get off my damn case homeboy.

Evan_The_Dude
06-05-2007, 05:09 PM
I didn't read it as Odom not wanting to play for the Pacers. I read it as Odom not happy to possibly be traded to Indiana instead of remaining in LA. Think about it. You're playing and living in Los Angeles, and then you're facing the possibility of being traded to Indiana. What the hell is in Indiana? Reggie Miller had the same reaction when he was drafted by Indiana from UCLA. I had the same reaction when I spent the majority of my life in the Bay Area, then moved to Indiana. I think it's about the city more than it's about playing for the team.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 05:16 PM
I agree with you're take but i think this comes down to being spoiled. Odom expected to remain a Laker and now this pops up it can hurt someones feelings but he will get over it he has to unless he wants his contract voided.

pwee31
06-05-2007, 05:25 PM
Well if Odom doesn't want to come here...surprise, surprise...a three-team trade sounds all the more better. Especially one that includes Boston. If there was some way, some miraculous way, to get the 5th and 19th pick...I would buy Larry Bird a crown.

Or if we could involve the Bulls and get the 9th and 19th, or Gordon and 19th

Bynum
Ike
Granger
Gordon
Tinsley
19th pick and reserves

Bynum
Ike
Granger
Dunleavy/Quis
Tinsley
9th pick, 19th pick and reserves.

Not trying to make a trade proposal, just saying that Odom doesn't have to come to Indy for this deal to work

JayRedd
06-05-2007, 06:05 PM
I think Geez is saying the constant negativity is getting old.

It aint negativity if it's the truth. It's real-ity.

We're bad. We've been bad for a while now. We're not showing any signs of improving.

Not sure who said it, but if was pretty spot on: "The Sunshiner of the Year Award should renamed the delusional freak award."

Go get me Andrew Bynum. Then we can go back smiles and confetti.

Hicks
06-05-2007, 06:08 PM
Things are never as bad as they appear unless you're dead.

ajbry
06-05-2007, 06:11 PM
At this point I can't blame the guy, there ain't too much appeal in being the core of the Pacers. You're not going to be put in a position to succeed, the fans will expect a massive amount of brilliance and turn against you quickly, and the market isn't exactly a favorable one.

But it ain't his choice.

avoidingtheclowns
06-05-2007, 06:12 PM
Things are never as bad as they appear unless you're dead.

Chapter 5, Verse 12 "The Book of Mal-isms"

Alpolloloco
06-05-2007, 06:29 PM
It aint negativity if it's the truth. It's real-ity.

We're bad. We've been bad for a while now. We're not showing any signs of improving.

Not sure who said it, but if was pretty spot on: "The Sunshiner of the Year Award should renamed the delusional freak award."

Go get me Andrew Bynum. Then we can go back smiles and confetti.

Are we really that bad as you and some others say? And since when are we bad? The brawl? Club Rio? Game #8? The GSW trade?

The summer has yet to begin, and you can already say we don't show improvement? This rebuilding process we all want (except maybe some big JO fans) won't make us better overnight, it takes time, maybe some years in which we won't be contenders for a while. I'm willing to take that price as long as our team has a better long term future, and yes I agree that Bynum hopefully will be part of that.

Stay positive my fellow Pacer fans!

Y2J
06-05-2007, 06:39 PM
We can move Odom to the Raptors for point guard T.J. Ford and short contract fillers.

ajbry
06-05-2007, 06:44 PM
We can move Odom to the Raptors for point guard T.J. Ford and short contract fillers.

This team would average like 70 points a game. Odom would be, unfortunately, our best player and #1 scoring option if we acquired him. Trading him away just to get T.J. Ford would set the franchise back even further.

OnlyPacersLeft
06-05-2007, 06:54 PM
yeah i think i'm starting to come to grips with trading JO. It will be a shock when it's announced because part of me wants him here...but i guess i can live with bynum. I just hope he developes into a stud like JO did.

idioteque
06-05-2007, 07:04 PM
I don't think that Indy is as bad as some people say it is. And this is coming from someone who has lived in both DC and Amsterdam (Netherlands). I am also young to the point where I still enjoy the nightlife. Sure, Indy isn't LA, DC, or Amsterdam, but it has a fair amount going for it in being a medium sized midwestern city. We've got more going on than either Cleveland or Milwaukee, at least! :laugh:

Maybe we hold our players a little more accountable for their actions on the court than some fans. If a player sucks then the fans will straight up turn against them. If Odom comes here and slacks off on the court he'll draw the ire of the fans. But if he plays hard he'll be appreciated.

If he is a slug on the court and makes some sort of off the court move the fans don't like, then well, that's a recipe for disaster.

I've been an Odom fan since the death of his son to SIDS. It's an incredibly tragic story for those who aren't familiar. He's really stepped up thorugh that adversity and allowed basketball to be sort of a temporary release from the obvious pain he has to be in. He's played much harder and with much more emotion.

If nothing else, I think that Odom's family lives in NY, and Indy is much closer to NY than LA. Hey, I'm hoping here. :D

diamonddave00
06-05-2007, 07:09 PM
Actually not getting Odom and accepting Jordan Farmar , #19, Kwame Brown's 1 yr 9 mil contract, Brian Cook , Maurice Evans and a future #1 in 2009 or 10 along with Andrew Bynum works for me.

Farmar and Evans fit well in the back court.

Bynum , is the building block center. Cook's contract is tradable. Brown's contract clears space or is a tradable contract at the deadline.

In addition add a pick now #19 and a future #1.

You now have a nucleus of youth Bynum , Granger, Diogu, Farmar , Williams the 19 now and perhaps an extra 1 in 2009-10.

Vet wise you have Tinsley (still possible trade material)- Foster, Dunleavy, Murphy, Armstrong and Daniels. Plus spare parts Cook, Evans, Harrison, Greene, Baston , and Marshall. Plus Brown and his deal.

Thats 19 contracts but several are movable if for nothing but future #2's.

The key is you get 11 mil in expiring contracts (Brown and Evans)- 2 young potential starters Bynum and Farmar , and only take on Cook's contract of 3 years 10.5 which should be movable. Plus at least one pick now 19 and possible future one. The upside on Bynum is great some say in JO's range or better its a gamble but Bynum's upside makes it a risk I'd feel safe taking.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 07:12 PM
Also i wanna remind you guys that even when Odom came to LA as part of the Shaq trade he was unhappy and you can't tell me thats because he was not happy being in LA it was because he was expected to stay in Miami.

so this has nothing to do with Indiana or the Pacers organization.

Odom was not happy in "LA" when he was with the Clippers it has to do with the fact that Phil told him to be aggressive next year for the Lakers.. Odom emotionally got excited and now he knows hes being traded like i said it can hurt someone.

Y2J
06-05-2007, 07:20 PM
This team would average like 70 points a game. Odom would be, unfortunately, our best player and #1 scoring option if we acquired him. Trading him away just to get T.J. Ford would set the franchise back even further.

We'd be very young and strugggle, true, but we'd have a great young nucleus to watch grow into potentially something special. Ford averaged 14/8 in less than 30 minutes last year. Bynum will be a beast. Granger, Ike and Shawne look nice. Yep, thats some talent to work with there, far better than the days of Al Harrington and Stephen "Missing Guard' Jackson.

indygeezer
06-05-2007, 07:37 PM
Because I dont want to switch teams. If you like pretending that everything is great with this team go right ahead, but nothing about this team has me thinking positive, well other then Jermaine.

When I was being positive and praising all our players. I was called a fan boy by YOU, now that I'm negative I should switch teams. Get off my damn case homeboy.

Chill Jerm, you always take everything I say so personally when all I'm really trying to do is see where you are coming from. I've been negative about this team alot longer than you and I was trying to determine if you were actually that negative or being sarcastic. Oh, and I was only after you before because of your undying affection for JO. I'm ok with that now since I've come to realize it is no different than my being a big fan of Kevin Costner or Sandra Bullock. But if it makes you happy, I'll never again respond to one of your posts or threads, how's that?

ABADays
06-05-2007, 07:40 PM
Because I dont want to switch teams. If you like pretending that everything is great with this team go right ahead, but nothing about this team has me thinking positive, well other then Jermaine.

When I was being positive and praising all our players. I was called a fan boy by YOU, now that I'm negative I should switch teams. Get off my damn case homeboy.

You are getting EXTREMELY tiring.

thunderbird1245
06-05-2007, 07:48 PM
Under no circumstances do I consider extending Lamar Odom's deal just to get him to be happy about coming here. I dont blame Odom for saying that however, its just good business sense on his part. It enables him to have some possible leverage in a situation where in reality he really shouldn't have any. It's always possible that Indy would agree to extend him, though doubtful, but if you are Odom you dont find out for sure unless you at least ask.

There are lots of scenarios and teams that do make sense for Odom, some of which have been bandied about on this thread and in the "spinning off Odom" thread in the trade forum. Some reasonable destinations for Odom include Boston (Ratliff, West, #5 pick perhaps), Charlotte (Brevin Knight and a sign/trade with Gerald Wallace), Dallas (Jason Terry, picks and filler), LA Clippers (Maggette/Quinton Ross and filler) Denver (Jr Smith plus either Nene or Camby), Houston (Battier and filler?) Seattle (Chris Wilcox maybe?), maybe even a 3 way deal with Detroit and New York (Odom to Detroit, Wallace to New York, Crawford and others to Indiana). I particularly like the last possibility, and may have to research that some more and see what makes sense.

My main point is, Odom being unhappy about being traded here is somewhat understandable, and doesn't make him a bad guy at all. We all also have to understand that players all talk to one another, and bringing the "tougher and more intense" Jim O'Brien may not be popular with all players in the league. It also goes without saying that many players would view living in LA as a big upgrade over Indianapolis.

Just my opinion of course.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 07:49 PM
DD, Odom will eventually report to the Pacers thats a given Odom has a history of being unhappy when hes traded.

he wants to win in LA but he failed thats on him. Bird will settle him down.

speakout4
06-05-2007, 08:01 PM
DD, Odom will eventually report to the Pacers thats a given Odom has a history of being unhappy when hes traded.

he wants to win in LA but he failed thats on him. Bird will settle him down.

It would be smart not to tell your new team's fans that you don't want to be there if you have any expectations of ever adjusting to new surroundings. Sorry but Odom is probably not going to be happy and Pacer fans will not appreciate that he doesn't want to be here. We already have at least one player who doesn't want to be here. For $27M he could see the bright side.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 08:07 PM
Speakout hes not upset because he doesn't wanna be there hes upset because he was expected to have a new role with the Lakers next year.

More aggressive scoring/ valuable 2nd option etc. that was Phil's statement after the exit meetings. you can't blame him for being upset about something he thought won't happen atleast not this summer can you?

he will get over it.. just like he did when he left Miami.

Kraft
06-05-2007, 08:18 PM
I wouldn't want my employer to trade me to a lesser city that puts out a lesser product. That'd suck.

Of course basketball's a little different, but there's plenty of room for me to understand Lamar's apprehension.

Jermaniac
06-05-2007, 08:58 PM
Chill Jerm, you always take everything I say so personally when all I'm really trying to do is see where you are coming from. I've been negative about this team alot longer than you and I was trying to determine if you were actually that negative or being sarcastic. Oh, and I was only after you before because of your undying affection for JO. I'm ok with that now since I've come to realize it is no different than my being a big fan of Kevin Costner or Sandra Bullock. But if it makes you happy, I'll never again respond to one of your posts or threads, how's that?

I have no problem with you replying to my posts. What I have a problem with is you taking constant shots at me in your posts. Its either the fan boy crap or now the negativity crap, or who is really a Pacers fan crap.

ABADays
06-05-2007, 09:02 PM
I wouldn't want my employer to trade me to a lesser city that puts out a lesser product. That'd suck.

Of course basketball's a little different, but there's plenty of room for me to under Lamar's apprehension.

Obviously you would have been unhappy in Cleveland last year ;)

Jermaniac
06-05-2007, 09:03 PM
You are getting EXTREMELY tiring.Put me on ignore then. No body is making you read what I say. I didnt insult no poster in this thread. And not being optimistic is not a rule you can get banned for on PD I believe.

I see what you are trying to do though. You go out of your way to make everything I say into a problem so somehow Hicks will get ****ed and ban me because of it.

indyman37
06-05-2007, 09:13 PM
Yo...come on guys. Forums are places where people can come and post their opinions and ideas. We shouldn't bash on people just because we don't agree with them. And lets please try to stop all this fighting crap, it's really taking away from the actually threads. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes and I know that me (being fairly new) shouldn't really be posting this but, can't we all just get along? Let's try to refrain from this stupid name-calling, etc.

speakout4
06-05-2007, 09:33 PM
More aggressive scoring/ valuable 2nd option etc.

Hasn't he been just that these past few years? Being negative every time he changes teams is not the way to start off. We deserve better

OnlyPacersLeft
06-05-2007, 10:00 PM
I think jermainiac is hillarious...why dont you guys enjoy em for his entertaining posts? LOL

JayRedd
06-05-2007, 10:17 PM
Being negative every time he changes teams is not the way to start off. We deserve better

Why would Indiana Pacer fans deserve anything from a guy from New York who went to college in RI and has lived in LA and Miami since then?

Not sure why you think you'd deserve somethinf from a guy who's life/family's future/career is currently being played out in a newspaper.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 10:20 PM
JayRedd.. i think i know were speakout is coming from but if he did not show any excitement coming to LA from Miami why would he show excitement now? Odom is one of those people who needs someone to talk to so he can settle down.

JayRedd
06-05-2007, 10:24 PM
JayRedd.. i think i know were speakout is coming from but if he did not show any excitement coming to LA from Miami why would he show excitement now? Odom is one of those people who needs someone to talk to so he can settle down.

Maybe he's just a negative person.

And especially now, I think we owe him the right to be pessimistic about uprooting himself and having to start all over on a team and possibly a location he doesn't want to play for/be in.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 10:31 PM
Maybe he's just a negative person.

And especially now, I think we owe him the right to be pessimistic about uprooting himself and having to start all over on a team and possibly a location he doesn't want to play for/be in.

Not negative, just emotional. he hated being in LA when he was with the Clippers he did not show any excitement coming here as a Laker. the only time he showed excitement was going to Miami but that was when he wanted to leave.

this has nothing to do with the place/team it has something to do with being spoiled in something you think won't happen but it did.

ChicagoJ
06-05-2007, 10:54 PM
I don't really want Odom anyway. We've got too many forwards, with or without JO.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 11:07 PM
Without Odom how is Jim O'Brien supposed to aim for the playoffs? Odom lets the Pacers be competitive unless a 3-way is worked out the Pacers are most likely gonna get Odom happy or not happy.

ChicagoJ
06-05-2007, 11:09 PM
With Odom the Pacers still don't have a backcort.

That's our downfall. Our frontcourt is fine.

Smashed_Potato
06-05-2007, 11:22 PM
How bout if the Lakers add Farmar which is a possibility?

ChicagoJ
06-05-2007, 11:24 PM
I think a third team has got to be involved. Farmar would help, but now the salaries are a mess.

Camby is not part of the solution to this, either.

Young
06-05-2007, 11:39 PM
I think a third team has got to be involved. Farmar would help, but now the salaries are a mess.

Camby is not part of the solution to this, either.

Right on.

What are the teams that would want Lamar?

Boston might if the price is right.

I think the Heat would.

He would be a great fit for the Rockets.

Would the Raptors? I saw someone had an idea with him going there and I don't know if they would want him or not.

I think that the Nets would like him. But I don't see how they can match his salary.

There are the Bulls and Pistons but would the Pacers allow a player like Odom go to their division rivals?

The Magic might want him, but do they have the cap space? I don't want Darko in a sign and trade to be honest.

I think that the Hornets would like him but I don't see how they can match salaries.

The Knicks might be the place for Lamar. They could match salaries easily. We could take back something like Crawford/Rose/pick or young player from them or I thought we could send them Tinsley and take back Marbury. Just a thought.

avoidingtheclowns
06-05-2007, 11:47 PM
I think jermainiac is hillarious...why dont you guys enjoy em for his entertaining posts? LOL

am i the only one suffocating in irony?


Right on.

What are the teams that would want Lamar?

Boston might if the price is right.

I think the Heat would.

He would be a great fit for the Rockets.

Would the Raptors? I saw someone had an idea with him going there and I don't know if they would want him or not.

I think that the Nets would like him. But I don't see how they can match his salary.

There are the Bulls and Pistons but would the Pacers allow a player like Odom go to their division rivals?

The Magic might want him, but do they have the cap space? I don't want Darko in a sign and trade to be honest.

I think that the Hornets would like him but I don't see how they can match salaries.

The Knicks might be the place for Lamar. They could match salaries easily. We could take back something like Crawford/Rose/pick or young player from them or I thought we could send them Tinsley and take back Marbury. Just a thought.

the magic have grant hill's $16mil or so coming off the books... they have room. they're going after carter which could eat up a lot of that, but who knows if they'll land him. boston, orlando, chicago, minnesota, houston, philly are the teams that seem like they'd want odom.

Shade
06-06-2007, 12:26 AM
I'm not too concerned about it, because I don't see the Lakers trade happening anyway.

Oneal07
06-06-2007, 01:07 AM
Not suprised. . but I'm sure if it goes down, Pacers can get even more for Odom

Arcadian
06-06-2007, 02:16 AM
I love Odom but if the Pacers got him it would only be to trade him down the line. A vet forward doesn't fit into our plans.

2Cleva
06-06-2007, 10:28 AM
If Indy takes Odom's no-trade demands seriously, it could throw a wrench in the deal for them. Not only can they not bend LA over, they can't dump a big salary either unless they want to make a 6-2 deal. Problem is that it might not be enough for Indy but its only a two-horse race for JO in LA and NY.

Bynum, Kwame, Radmanovic, 19 and a future first rounder could work. Could get Farmar as well and throw in someone like Harrison. A couple of draft picks has been the recent going rate for stars dealt (Iverson, Carter, Shaq).

diamonddave00
06-06-2007, 10:41 AM
Actually the easiest JO to LA trade if Lamar Odom isn't involved is.

Pacers send JO to the Lakers for Andrew Bynum , Jordan Farmar, Kwame Brown , a resigned Aaron McKie at 3.5 mil the Lakers send trade max 3mil to basicly pay off McKie, the Lakers 2001 #1 (19) and a 2009 #1 . That way you don't take Ramanovic's 4 year deal as filer.

Bynum, #19, Farmar and Brown play this season here.

After the season Brown and McKie's deals are off the payroll saving 12.5 million.

The Pacers are left with Bynum, Farmar , whoever they take at 19 and the 2009 #1. Which if Bynum is the beast eventually some say he will be a very nice package of young talent.

avoidingtheclowns
06-06-2007, 10:44 AM
no vladrad. that should be a deal breaker or TPTB should be euthenized. the only way you take on vladrad is by moving murphy.

i also think boston is in this race for JO too. and frankly i don't find anything the knicks have to offer all that appealing.

odeez
06-06-2007, 10:51 AM
Who needs him, use him in a three way deal.

avoidingtheclowns
06-06-2007, 10:57 AM
i ultimately think this more has to do with being traded in general than it is a personal slight to the pacers. he didn't say under no circumstances, he said he would play and be happy if he got the extension. this is all about his contract NOT the pacers or indianapolis. allen iverson killed a rumored deal a few years ago saying "there was absolutely no way he would play for ______ team" (i'm thinking it may have been the bobcats right off hand). lamar didn't say anything absolutely, he even conceded that he would have to go, no matter what. but he said he would do it happily with the extention. i think it would be the same no matter where he was rumored to be traded. you also have to realize his ego has taken a major blow by all of kobe's shenanigans. kobe *****ing about the players on the roster and how they're not good enough to help him win a championship. but you have a borderline allstar (or former) who has been playing with him.

FlavaDave
06-06-2007, 11:04 AM
This is an easy solution:

Spin Odom for a young guard or a draft pick to select a young guard.

I'm looking at you, Dallas. I think if Dallas had Odom they would have beaten the Warriors.

diamonddave00
06-06-2007, 11:44 AM
If you trade Odom you have to take back 10 mil in salary minimum.

Robobtowncolt
06-06-2007, 11:46 AM
If you trade Odom you have to take back 10 mil in salary minimum.

Maybe we can get back a draft pick and two more General Manager-types?

FlavaDave
06-06-2007, 11:50 AM
If you trade Odom you have to take back 10 mil in salary minimum.


Hopefully 5-8 million of what we take back is expiring.

CableKC
06-06-2007, 01:34 PM
Hopefully 5-8 million of what we take back is expiring.
If I look at this purely from the Pacers POV....I would much rather have Odom involved in a 3-way team trade and send him to some other team where we can get some valuable players in return.

I could care less if Odom would be playing here or not....he doesn't have to be looked at as a player that we can use in the lineup in the near future...when he is included in any trade talks....he can be used a a valuable trading asset.

I just don't understand how many of you can simply settle for an Expiring Contract, Bynum and a 19th pick for JONeal when we are in a position where we should be able to come out ahead in any trade with the Lakers. I don't know why we have to settle for more a "lesser" deal just because one of the key players doesn't want to come to Indy. If Odom really doesn't want to come...then the Lakers better figure out a way to compensate us more. As DiamondDave suggested...we better get a future 1st round pick in 2009...at the very least. As far as I am concerned...that's not our problem...that's the Lakers problem.

I hope that if the deal is just Kwame+Bynum+19th pick...that we wait til draft day to see if anyone wants to offer something for him so that we at least have some options.

I just can believe that there is so little interest in JONeal that no one would offer something...anything...for him.

diamonddave00
06-06-2007, 01:40 PM
Odom make 12.5 mil this season , if you wait till July 11 he makes 13.5 mil . Basic trade restrictions allow a team to take on 125% + 100,000 of what they trade away.

Thus a team acquiring Odom must send us contracts worth 9.5 mil in June and 10.3 mil in July. Draft picks have no monetary value in a trade , but once a pick has been used the player can be traded at his slotted draft spots value on the rookie pay scale.

Its the reason I suggest we accept Kwame Brown's expiring deal , Farmar , 19 this year and a future one + filer instead of Odom. In a year Brown's 9 mil and the filer 3.5 come of the payroll.

We end up with Bynum, Farmar , whoever we take at 19 a future #1 and 12.5 mil cap money removed.

JayRedd
06-06-2007, 01:50 PM
I hope that if the deal is just Kwame+Bynum+19th pick...that we wait til draft day to see if anyone wants to offer something for him so that we at least have some options.

I just can believe that there is so little interest in JONeal that no one would offer something...anything...for him.

I agree that we should be able to get better than just Bynum + 19 + expiring deals, but I'm not sure we're in such a huge position of leverage here.

I still say Kupchuk/West/Buss/Jeanie Buss/Phil/whoever else they have making decisions in LA can get KG if they really want too. Pau Gasol is out there.Zack Randolph, who of course has his own issues, is also easily attainable. There's talk (mere speculation?) about Sheed being available. Antawn Jamison can be had.

Obviously, the Kobe situation forces the Lakers hand a little, and I'm guessing anything less the KG, JO or Pau wouldn't really satisfy the Mamba....but, there are a lot of 20/10-ish types out there that could be brought in.

They get Pau or someone for just Bynum + pick + filler and maybe Kobe would stop whining with a starting roster of Farmar/Kobe/Odom/Gasol/Center.

I just think the Lakers front office must see the same complaints some Pacer fans have with JO (injuries, too many jumpshots, non-aggressive rebounder, etc.) and may not want to "sell the farm" to get him. Why not go get KG if you're gonna sell the farm? If they're tryna give away as little as possible (which is always the standard GM position), and we won't take their offer, they can probably get Gasol or Randolph for the offer we reject.

FlavaDave
06-06-2007, 01:51 PM
If I look at this purely from the Pacers POV....I would much rather have Odom involved in a 3-way team trade and send him to some other team where we can get some valuable players in return.

I could care less if Odom would be playing here or not....he doesn't have to be looked at as a player that we can use in the lineup in the near future...when he is included in any trade talks....he can be used a a valuable trading asset.

I just don't understand how many of you can simply settle for an Expiring Contract, Bynum and a 19th pick for JONeal when we are in a position where we should be able to come out ahead in any trade with the Lakers. I don't know why we have to settle for more a "lesser" deal just because one of the key players doesn't want to come to Indy. If Odom really doesn't want to come...then the Lakers better figure out a way to compensate us more. As DiamondDave suggested...we better get a future 1st round pick in 2009...at the very least. As far as I am concerned...that's not our problem...that's the Lakers problem.

I hope that if the deal is just Kwame+Bynum+19th pick...that we wait til draft day to see if anyone wants to offer something for him so that we at least have some options.

I just can believe that there is so little interest in JONeal that no one would offer something...anything...for him.


No, you misunderstand. I want a young guard on his rookie or second contract, which would put his salary at 1-3 million a year. Pair that guy up with an expiring and we are in business.

For the sake of example, we could trade Odom to the Celtics for Gerald Green and Theo Ratliff. Combine that with the 8 million we save by taking on Brown, and we would get Bynum, Green, and 20 million in cap room. That's a hell of a deal.

That twenty million dollars would put us 11 million under the cap in 2008. Ben Gordon is a free agent. You think he would sign here for 8.5 million over five seasons?

Plus, we would suck for a season, and we would end up with a top ten draft pick.

So, we would have in effect gotten Gerald Green, Ben Gordon, Andrew Bynum, and a top ten pick for JO. Sound good?

Not saying this is a likely senario (pretty sure Boston wouldn't bite on that unless Pierce started *****ing Kobe-style), but that illustrates the power of cap room, especially in the modern NBA when all but 2-3 teams are over the cap.

bread
06-06-2007, 01:55 PM
Odom make 12.5 mil this season , if you wait till July 11 he makes 13.5 mil . Basic trade restrictions allow a team to take on 125% + 100,000 of what they trade away.

Thus a team acquiring Odom must send us contracts worth 9.5 mil in June and 10.3 mil in July. Draft picks have no monetary value in a trade , but once a pick has been used the player can be traded at his slotted draft spots value on the rookie pay scale.

Its the reason I suggest we accept Kwame Brown's expiring deal , Farmar , 19 this year and a future one + filer instead of Odom. In a year Brown's 9 mil and the filer 3.5 come of the payroll.

We end up with Bynum, Farmar , whoever we take at 19 a future #1 and 12.5 mil cap money removed.

What if the other team is under the cap? Would the salaries still have to match?

FlavaDave
06-06-2007, 01:56 PM
What if the other team is under the cap? Would the salaries still have to match?


No, as long as they are still under the cap after the trade.

CableKC
06-06-2007, 02:04 PM
We end up with Bynum, Farmar , whoever we take at 19 a future #1 and 12.5 mil cap money removed.
That's fine...if the best that we can truly get for JONeal is Bynum+Kwame+19+future 1st....then I will be disappointed....but can live with it.

Honestly....I really hope that TPTB tries to swing Odom to Boston for Ratliff+#5 or Ratliff+Green in a 3 team trade.

Lakers
Out: Odom + Bynum + 19th pick
In: JONeal

Celtics
Out: Ratliff + ( #5 or Green - their choice )
In: Odom

Pacers
Out: JONeal
In: Ratliff ( Expring Contract ) + Bynum + 19th Pick + ( #5 or Green )

For Odom....Boston didn't do any better then the Pacers in the record-books...but I can see Boston as a more attractive city to be traded to IF he had to be traded. I just don't that if we trade JONeal that we will be any better then Boston in the upcoming season.

For Boston.....they get a very solid 2nd fiddle to play next to Pierce without giving up too much.

For the Pacers...I understand the need for getting an Expiring Contract....but I just think that we can get more out of this deal IF we get back Odom instead of Kwame...who can be is used as a trading asset. It may simply mean that if we get Odom, we just get Green or the #5 pick.......but that's something that we can use to help rebuild.

Although the Lakers have to give up Odom.....they will still have Kwame to use as a bargaining chip to get the best player that they can. I know that its not much...but as far as I am concerned...that's not my problem. I know that I sound greedy in my posts about wanting Odom....but if we are rebuilding....my concern is getting the most value for JONeal. If it means squeezing Odom out of the Lakers in any deal and getting back a prospect in Green or the #5 pick in return...then I am all for it.

I just don't think that we shouldn't be settling for a "Kwame+Bynum+19th pick" deal from the Lakers just because Odom is unhappy ( like he should be given any choice ). We should be expecting more for JONeal.

bread
06-06-2007, 02:06 PM
No, as long as they are still under the cap after the trade.

That's what I thought. That being the case, these teams are under the cap:

Hawks, Bobcats, Bulls, Griz, Bucks, Hornets, Magic, & the Sonics.

How about sending Odom to the Griz for #4, Dahntey Jones and maybe Warrick/Swift. He could hang out with Jerry West at the airport. ;)

CableKC
06-06-2007, 02:11 PM
No, you misunderstand. I want a young guard on his rookie or second contract, which would put his salary at 1-3 million a year. Pair that guy up with an expiring and we are in business.

For the sake of example, we could trade Odom to the Celtics for Gerald Green and Theo Ratliff. Combine that with the 8 million we save by taking on Brown, and we would get Bynum, Green, and 20 million in cap room. That's a hell of a deal.

That twenty million dollars would put us 11 million under the cap in 2008. Ben Gordon is a free agent. You think he would sign here for 8.5 million over five seasons?

Plus, we would suck for a season, and we would end up with a top ten draft pick.

So, we would have in effect gotten Gerald Green, Ben Gordon, Andrew Bynum, and a top ten pick for JO. Sound good?

Not saying this is a likely senario (pretty sure Boston wouldn't bite on that unless Pierce started *****ing Kobe-style), but that illustrates the power of cap room, especially in the modern NBA when all but 2-3 teams are over the cap.
Help me breakdown the trade that you are proposing....are you suggesting that the Lakers trade Odom+Kwame+Bynum for JONeal+(whoever matches salaries )?

If so...even I...who wants a player like Odom included....don't think that we can get BOTH Kwame and Odom. Once we include players that we may want to jettison...like Tinsley, Murphy or Dunleavy.....( sorry, I want to keep Marquis )...then we start to lose what "bargaining" power that we have to get back the best deal for JONeal.

I'm all for getting back as much Salarycap space as possible going forward...but I don't expect the Lakers to trade all of their "trading assets" while taking back horrible long-term contracts.

mike_D
06-06-2007, 02:11 PM
I agree that we should be able to get better than just Bynum + 19 + expiring deals, but I'm not sure we're in such a huge position of leverage here.

I still say Kupchuk/West/Buss/Jeanie Buss/Phil/whoever else they have making decisions in LA can get KG if they really want too. Pau Gasol is out there.Zack Randolph, who of course has his own issues, is also easily attainable. There's talk (mere speculation?) about Sheed being available. Antawn Jamison can be had.

Obviously, the Kobe situation forces the Lakers hand a little, and I'm guessing anything less the KG, JO or Pau wouldn't really satisfy the Mamba....but, there are a lot of 20/10-ish types out there that could be brought in.

They get Pau or someone for just Bynum + pick + filler and maybe Kobe would stop whining with a starting roster of Farmar/Kobe/Odom/Gasol/Center.

I just think the Lakers front office must see the same complaints some Pacer fans have with JO (injuries, too many jumpshots, non-aggressive rebounder, etc.) and may not want to "sell the farm" to get him. Why not go get KG if you're gonna sell the farm? If they're tryna give away as little as possible (which is always the standard GM position), and we won't take their offer, they can probably get Gasol or Randolph for the offer we reject.

It depends how good you think this kid Bynam is.IF you think this guy has a chance to be a franchise player(one of the top 10 players in the league) then then it makes sense to do the deal and you also get the 19th maybe somebody slips and you get a nice player at that position. I don't believe he is a franchise player. If this is the case you take this deal right away.

I think he'll be a very good player all-star caliber type of a player but not on the level Of ,David Robinson,Tim Duncan,Shaq or even what Greg Oden will become.I don't think he is a special palyer.Therefore I would wait and see what other teams come up with, its still very early, I don't think we should rush this.

diamonddave00
06-06-2007, 02:14 PM
If we traded as I suggest for Bynum , Farmar, 2007 & 09 #1's , Brown and filer perhaps resigned and waived mckie salary paid by Lakers including 3 mil in trade you create cap room.

After you remove Brown and McKie's 12.5 mil after next season. You are left with Bynum at 2.8 mil , Farmar at 1 mil , pick 19 around 1 mil = 4.8 mil instead of JO's 21.3 mil in 2008-08. Saving over 16 million plus you still have the 2009 1st from the Lakers to use.

This gives you money to help resign Granger, Diogu annd Bynum in the year after. Plus you don't have the 23 mil of JO in 2009-10.

Just my thought on why a package minus Odom may be a better long term idea.

diamonddave00
06-06-2007, 02:15 PM
Celtic will not trade for Odom knowing he wants a 3 year extention. I just say remove Odom take Bynum -19 a future 1 Farmar and 12.5 cap room.

To me Bynum is pick #3 value. Odom can stay in LA . Farmar is a young point guard.

Can't see Odom at 26 mil next 2 years wanting a 3 year extention to be real attractive.

mike_D
06-06-2007, 02:21 PM
I just think the Lakers front office must see the same complaints some Pacer fans have with JO (injuries, too many jumpshots, non-aggressive rebounder, etc.) and may not want to "sell the farm" to get him. Why not go get KG if you're gonna sell the farm? If they're tryna give away as little as possible (which is always the standard GM position), and we won't take their offer, they can probably get Gasol or Randolph for the offer we reject.


You also bring up an excellent point about them seeing if they can get Gasol or Randolph for cheaper.It makes alot of sense can anybody honestly say that there is that much of a difference between Gasol/Randolph and Oneal.Obviously they play different games offensively and different strengths but if you can get Gasol or Randolph for Bynam and Brown or Oneal for 19th/Bynum/Odom which one would you do? I like Oneal better as a player but I would do the first deal if I was the lakers.

JayRedd
06-06-2007, 02:21 PM
It depends how good you think this kid Bynam is.IF you think this guy has a chance to be a franchise player(one of the top 10 players in the league) then then it makes sense to do the deal and you also get the 19th maybe somebody slips and you get a nice player at that position. I don't believe he is a franchise player. If this is the case you take this deal right away.

I think Bynum will be better than JO ever was. So, honestly, trading JO straight for Bynum and a pick or Farmar would be great for us in my book. Hell, I'd be happy with JO and Tinsley for Bynum and Luke Walton (salaries don't work, I know). Essentially, anything that gets us young Andrew is a good deal in my book. (Conversely, any deal with LA that does not bring back Bynum will be a travesty, IMO.)

I'm just playing devil's advocate about what JO's true value is in this market.

And I don't think his value is nearly enough to return Bynum + Odom + anything else desirable.

FlavaDave
06-06-2007, 02:32 PM
Help me breakdown the trade that you are proposing....are you suggesting that the Lakers trade Odom+Kwame+Bynum for JONeal+(whoever matches salaries )?

If so...even I...who wants a player like Odom included....don't think that we can get BOTH Kwame and Odom. Once we include players that we may want to jettison...like Tinsley, Murphy or Dunleavy.....( sorry, I want to keep Marquis )...then we start to lose what "bargaining" power that we have to get back the best deal for JONeal.

I'm all for getting back as much Salarycap space as possible going forward...but I don't expect the Lakers to trade all of their "trading assets" while taking back horrible long-term contracts.


I do. We don't even have to trade JO, but the Lakers absolutely must aquire JO. They don't have any other realistic choice.

CableKC
06-06-2007, 02:35 PM
Celtic will not trade for Odom knowing he wants a 3 year extention. I just say remove Odom take Bynum -19 a future 1 Farmar and 12.5 cap room.

To me Bynum is pick #3 value. Odom can stay in LA . Farmar is a young point guard.

Can't see Odom at 26 mil next 2 years wanting a 3 year extention to be real attractive.
Of course, this is assuming that Odom backs away from his "extension demand".

As I said, I will begrudgingly settle for the trade that you suggest IF that is what truly happens......but from a negotiating POV....I just do not understand why we have to settle for less.....assuming ( and I know that its a big assumption ) that some Odom+Bynum+19 deal for JONeal was on the table.

I just look at any Kwame+19+Bynum deal as being forced to take less in a deal where we could have gotten more cuz in the end......Odom >>

Now.....if the best deal that the Lakers EVER offered for JONeal was a Kwame+Bynum+19 deal....and Odom was never even considered from the Lakers POV....then I...and many of us...have severely overestimated the value of JONeal.

Also...about the expiring contract of Kwame compared to Odom.....Odom expires after the 2009/2010 season....which is early enough to resign players like Ike, Granger or Bynum.

The only caveat is that we would have the option to sign a FA in the 2008-2009 season. But with all this "cost-cutting" stuff going on with TPTB...I don't know how much we can offer to any FA while having enough space to resign our existing young players.

CableKC
06-06-2007, 02:40 PM
I do. We don't even have to trade JO, but the Lakers absolutely must aquire JO. They don't have any other realistic choice.
Believe me....I agree with you that they Lakers aren't in a position to really dictate why we MUST take a deal for Kwame+Bynum+19th pick.....I just don't think that it's realistic to expect that they go that far.

Also...I'm more concerned that the second that we include a 2nd player with a huge/long-term contract...so that we can make salaries match for an Odom+Kwame+Bynum+19th pick.....we would have to take back players that we don't want or need...like Cook or VladRad.

The way I look at it is that I would much rather have a trade involving less players while taking back a trade that gets us a better deal then involving more players and ending up with a trade that isn't as good.

The more we insist on the Lakers taking on a 2nd long-term player in any deal....the more likely that the Lakers will reject...or worse....demand that we take back more then we really want or need.

JayRedd
06-06-2007, 02:40 PM
I do. We don't even have to trade JO, but the Lakers absolutely must aquire JO. They don't have any other realistic choice.

Again...I don't believe this at all.

Even if they don't want/can't get KG or Gasol or Randolph or Sheed or whatever else, they could still trade Kobe and build around Bynum and the huge amount of talent they would get back (Josh Howard/Jason Terry immediately comes to mind as attainable).

In short, LA has A LOT of options. Don't let IndyStar fool you.

Young
06-06-2007, 03:05 PM
If we traded as I suggest for Bynum , Farmar, 2007 & 09 #1's , Brown and filer perhaps resigned and waived mckie salary paid by Lakers including 3 mil in trade you create cap room.

After you remove Brown and McKie's 12.5 mil after next season. You are left with Bynum at 2.8 mil , Farmar at 1 mil , pick 19 around 1 mil = 4.8 mil instead of JO's 21.3 mil in 2008-08. Saving over 16 million plus you still have the 2009 1st from the Lakers to use.

This gives you money to help resign Granger, Diogu annd Bynum in the year after. Plus you don't have the 23 mil of JO in 2009-10.

Just my thought on why a package minus Odom may be a better long term idea.

I think I like this as well as anything.

I really don't think we have that much leverage on the Lakers to the point where we can just get whatever we want. We have to admit that Odom, and Bynum and the 19th pick is a high price to pay for Jermaine. It's not like the Lakers don't know that he is injury prone and stuff.

Sure they have to make Kobe happy but they have to put a winner on the court there too.

speakout4
06-06-2007, 06:53 PM
Maybe he's just a negative person.

And especially now, I think we owe him the right to be pessimistic about uprooting himself and having to start all over on a team and possibly a location he doesn't want to play for/be in.
Try going to your boss or whoever pays your salary and tell them you aren't particularly pleased to be there and you would rather be somewhere else. Then let me know why everyone in that place of employment could care less about you. That's the life of a highly paid professional athlete and if he doesn't like it he can take his high school education and see if he can do better. Or he can quit the NBA and go to any international team of his choice where he wouldn't have to read what the local apers are saying about him.