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Anthem
06-01-2007, 09:07 AM
Agree that this could be very good for JO.

He needs to lose some weight, to get back to his more mobile self (that should also help with his injuries). But JO has historically played his best ball in a fluid offense.

Frank Slade
06-01-2007, 09:11 AM
O'Brien was on Mike and Mike this morning. Bird had initially called him about 10 days ago, they had been talking back and forth during the whole interview process of candidates.
Received a call from Bird to see if they could work out a deal and it did not take long to hammer on out

What attracted him to this job was Bird's drive to win and DW's experience. etc...

He is approaching the job right now as if JO is going to be on the team, however he knows if JO is traded that Larry will not trade him for nothing, and
that it is Bird's call but with alot of input from Walsh. They have an understanding before a move is made they will at least hear O'Brien's take before a final decision is made. He is confident they will both make the best decisions when it comes to trading Jermaine.

( ok now that's weird. finally got the time right, so the latest posts are ending up at the top) :lmao:

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 09:18 AM
I want to bring out an important point from Kravitz column, that I think best demonstrates the O'Brien - Harter defense. Because it is different from what Harter did for the Pacers in the late 90's. He started doing this when the zone rules changed

O'Brien pointed proudly to the fact that in two of his four years in Boston, the Harter-led Celtics defense led the league in fewest points in the paint allowed. Arcane, but meaningful. And, if memory serves, that wasn't Bill Russell standing back there.


One thing we won't have to worry about next season is dribble penetration that leads to layups, dunks or easy inside shots - oh and JO won't get nearly as many shot blocks. The only help defense won't be JO standing there to take a charge or to block a shot.

What the Harter - O'Brien defense does is flood the ball handler on all penetration - They might over help, but they will never under help - defending the paint and keeping the ball out of the paint is the most important thing - in fact it is done at all costs. Of course when you do that you have to give up something and that is weakside open 20 ft jumpers and weakside open threes. So teams that are patient and move the ball to the opppsite side of the court will get some open shots. My memory is that the Spurs used to shread the Celts and Sixers defense, they would penetrate or get the ball to TD and reverse the ball quickly for open shots. But most teams are as good or patient as the Spurs.

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 09:55 AM
I still don't expect Jamaal to be on the team, but we'll see. One thing I do remember about O'Brien's offense is he often does not play a traditional point guard, (or a true point guard) So I would expect to see Daniels playing a lot of point

yeah we'll see about jamaal, i'm not convinced he can do the uptempo style (otherwise i'd be forcing him on Phoenix for some of their picks as a backup for nash). and i'm looking forward to seeing Quis play the point hopefully he can stay healthy.

i'm also still not sure about the hire from the usual "lets make the playoffs" routine the pacers go through. i was talking to a friend last night who said that a deal with boston was probably going to happen soon (just an opinion, not a source). naturally i was thinking of the recent proposed JO trades but he wondered if hiring o'brien was a play to trade for paul pierce - which would fit with the whole 'win now' philosophy. i'm not convinced we have the pieces to move for him .

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 09:59 AM
This is strange the latest posts on top. I assume this isn't supposed to be happening??

Ragnar
06-01-2007, 10:29 AM
That first article about the offense makes me a little more happy about him

Anthem
06-01-2007, 11:17 AM
Agree that this could be very good for JO.

He needs to lose some weight, to get back to his more mobile self (that should also help with his injuries). But JO has historically played his best ball in a fluid offense.

Anthem
06-01-2007, 11:22 AM
This is very weird.

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 11:24 AM
This is very weird.

very. i don't think i dropped acid this morning.

actually its not bolding which threads have been posted on recently for me either.

jcouts
06-01-2007, 11:36 AM
Ok, but UB won't be calling him Obie in Indy.

I'm just joking around, but the name Obie gets on my nerves though.


I still don't expect Jamaal to be on the team, but we'll see. One thing I do remember about O'Brien's offense is he often does not play a traditional point guard, (or a true point guard) So I would expect to see Daniels playing a lot of point

Kenny Anderson was running the point for him when Boston went to the ECF.

Frank Slade
06-01-2007, 11:47 AM
This is strange the latest posts on top. I assume this isn't supposed to be happening??

Yes that is what I was saying, The time had been off like 16-18 hrs in advance of the correct time, so now that it's correct we all future posts on a past thread are in the past :confused: until we catch up with ourselves late tonight ?

BillS
06-01-2007, 11:48 AM
very. i don't think i dropped acid this morning.

actually its not bolding which threads have been posted on recently for me either.

I sent a PM to Mal/Hicks and able this morning thinking it was just me.

I think it looks like we went through a period where posts were logged GMT only, then since then new posts have ther proper timestamp and show up as "last post" on the Topic screen, but get inserted into threads based on post time - so older posts with later timestamps show up last.

BillS
06-01-2007, 11:51 AM
Actual response to this thread:

I agree :eek: with Kravitz on <i>almost</i> everything.

I disagree with:


My sense is, this city is ready to endure a rebuilding process. They've made their feelings known by assiduously avoiding the Fieldhouse on game nights in recent years.

OK, what drugs make someone think that a team playing <i>worse</i> through rebuilding years will bring in <i>more</i> fans?

I would read this as the city is NOT interested in rebuilding years but will only come back with immediate success.

Young
06-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Well I don't mind that offense to much.

I like to see the tempo be faster than we have played. That is a good thing.

What I don't like is a high volume of 3 point shots with the team we have now. I don't want to see guys like Jamaal Tinsley, Danny Granger, and Shawne Williams shoot a lot of 3s. They can hit those shots no doubt but they are not the guys you want shooting the 3 ball a lot. Only 2-3 times per game at the most. The 3 point shot takes away a lot of energy from a player, it makes a big difference shooting 25+ feet out instead of 20 feet in.

wintermute
06-01-2007, 01:27 PM
'Three-second rule' will dictate offense

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/SPORTS04/706010477

Jim O'Brien's version of the "three-second rule" has nothing to do with standing in the lane too long, and everything to do with speeding the tempo.

If his Indiana Pacers can adhere to it next season, fans should be entertained.

"Make or miss, if you get the ball across halfcourt in three seconds, we're playing basketball," O'Brien said Thursday after being introduced as the Pacers' new coach. "It's not going to be set offense.

"Everyone in the NBA is so well prepared to stop your set offense that you have to push the ball."

Contrary to his conservative image and demeanor, O'Brien coaches a relatively open style of play that helped him build a 182-158 record in Boston and Philadelphia and allowed Sixers guard Allen Iverson to flourish.

Iverson averaged 30.7 points and career highs of 7.9 assists and 4.6 turnovers in O'Brien's only season as his coach (2004-05), when the Sixers finished 43-39, a 10-game improvement from the previous season.

O'Brien said he'll call plays to try to exploit mismatches when fast-break opportunities are not available but hopes he doesn't have to make a habit of it.

"If you're not one of the guys I'm calling (a play for) every time down court, there's a real drive to get across halfcourt in three seconds," O'Brien said. "If you don't get across in three seconds, you don't have a fast break."

That means O'Brien's arrival could bode well for point guard Jamaal Tinsley. A lightning rod for fans, Tinsley's play -- and availability -- was erratic under former coach Rick Carlisle.

"I like Jamaal a lot," O'Brien said. "I did not like competing against him. I think he caused us a lot of problems. I'll be very happy for him to be the guy running our basketball team. He's a load to handle when he's playing at the right level."

O'Brien also plans to use Marquis Daniels at point guard, a position in which he flourished under Don Nelson in Dallas.

"If you get them in the open court, they can cause a lot of headaches for the defense," O'Brien said of Tinsley and Daniels.

O'Brien said he wants his teams to shoot a high volume of 3-pointers, as long as they are "good 3s." He will spread the court in the halfcourt offense to try to create opportunities for players such as Danny Granger to drive.

"The hardest thing to do defensively is cover a long distance and try to contain (the shooter)," he said. "A guy like Granger, who can shoot the 3, we want to create one-on-one situations for him."

Longtime Pacers fans likely will recognize the defensive approach from Larry Bird's three seasons as coach. O'Brien, like Bird, has put assistant Dick Harter in charge of his defense. Harter, who is expected to join O'Brien's staff, worked with him in Boston and Philadelphia.

"We're going to play a tough brand of man-to-man basketball where everybody on the court has to be on the same page," O'Brien said.

"That's something we're going to establish from the beginning."

Call Star reporter Mark Montieth at (317) 444-6406.



interesting thoughts. it really seems like bird and carlisle had huge differences in philosophy. the things obie emphasizes - up tempo/early offense, tinsley as a talented player, quis as a pg - are all themes that bird has articulated before.

i do wonder about the playoff team comment. so we're not rebuilding? or is obie prepared to lead a jo-less team to the playoffs?

wintermute
06-01-2007, 01:32 PM
O'Brien might just be the right guy for the job

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/COLUMNISTS01/706010476/1088/SPORTS04

Yeah, I hear the groaning.

Jim O'Brien? He's a retread. Got fired twice before. Guess Bill Fitch and Dick Motta weren't available.

Lots of groaning. And gnashing of teeth. The Pacer Nation, what's left of it, is speaking with a single voice.

C'mon. Why not some new blood? How about Brian Shaw? Or Kurt Rambis? Why is Marc Iavaroni going to Memphis? How about Billy Donovan to Orlando? Where's our headline?

I understand the sentiment. You're underwhelmed. You're uninspired. You're not rushing out and buying season tickets, screaming, "Yes! We got Jim O'Brien! The Pacers are playing O'Brien Ball!" After the Pacers' last four marquee coaching hires -- Larry Brown, Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas and Rick Carlisle -- O'Brien is a flat-liner.

But that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bad hire.

O'Brien wasn't selected to sell tickets or capture the imagination of the citizenry. He was hired to win. And he has won in the past, taking both Philly and Boston to the playoffs one year after both teams missed the postseason.
If the Pacers win, the stands will be filled. If they don't, it won't matter if O'Brien belts out show tunes and makes balloon animals during timeouts, the seats will be empty.

Here's what you're getting with O'Brien. You're getting a professional coach. You're getting experience. You're getting solid, a coaching lifer who won't come in and screw things up.

Think Hubie Brown -- minus 15 years or so.

I understand the public's ho-hum reaction. There were bigger names out there. There were more intriguing names out there. With Iavaroni, you thought the Pacers might be getting a Phoenix-style offense. With Shaw, you thought you might be getting a young up-and-comer, an Avery Johnson type, who would relate to the players and grow on the job.

With O'Brien, you're getting, well, um, it's hard to know, really.

He's supposed to be a disciplinarian, which is never a bad thing around here, but we won't know for sure until Jamaal Tinsley shows up late one day.

His record suggests he's a Rick Pitino disciple who is willing to play an up-tempo style with a taste for the 3-point shot. O'Brien said he will install a three-second rule, which means that if the Pacers get the ball over midcourt in three seconds or less, he will allow them to freelance. If not, he'll call the play.

One excellent piece of related news: O'Brien will bring Dick Harter back to Indiana. During his time as a Bird assistant, Harter took some of the slowest defenders on earth and turned them into a terrific defensive unit. Yes, defense still matters in the new NBA. Maybe you've seen San Antonio and Detroit play lately.

O'Brien pointed proudly to the fact that in two of his four years in Boston, the Harter-led Celtics defense led the league in fewest points in the paint allowed. Arcane, but meaningful. And, if memory serves, that wasn't Bill Russell standing back there.

Sure, O'Brien has been fired before. But so was Flip Saunders. So was Jerry Sloan. So was Mike D'Antoni. So was Scott Skiles. Should I continue? In this league, if you haven't been fired, it's only because you weren't good enough to get hired in the first place.

If Bird presents him with a roster that's good enough to win 45 games, he'll win 45 games. If Bird does little more than tinker around the edges of this roster, O'Brien will win 35 games.

That's the bottom line on all of this. Unless Bird sticks this roster into a Cuisinart, we're going to see more of the same, a team caught in that nether region where they're neither good enough to contend for a title nor bad enough to make the lottery.

O'Brien was asked Thursday, "Is it your understanding that you're taking over a rebuilding team, or one that expects to be in the playoffs next season?"
He answered quickly.

"The latter,'' he said. "We expect to be in the playoffs next season. I have taken over two similar jobs, one in Boston where they hadn't been to the playoffs in quite some time, and in our first year, we were able to get to the playoffs and reach the Eastern Conference finals. In Philadelphia, they'd won 33 games the year before, and I remember the same type of question being asked. . . . We would all be disappointed if we didn't make the playoffs.''

That's what Bird wants to hear.

I'm just not sure if that's what everybody else wants to hear.

My sense is, this city is ready to endure a rebuilding process. They've made their feelings known by assiduously avoiding the Fieldhouse on game nights in recent years. They're willing to lose Jermaine O'Neal to the Lakers as long as the Pacers get some young talent -- Andrew Bynum, Jordan Farmar, maybe the No. 19 pick -- in return.

Bird, however, still thinks this is salvageable. And he's willing to entrust his own front-office future to O'Brien, whom he hired without doing a face-to-face interview.

Clearly, this is not an exciting or popular hire.

That doesn't mean it's a bad one.



kravitz really just likes to take the contrarian viewpoint.

Eindar
06-01-2007, 01:33 PM
I like everything I heard in this article. For those reading between the lines, JO does NOT fit into this scheme. He's far too slow to make it to half court in 3 seconds routinely.

Obie's vision for the team sounds very well suited to Odom, but not Bynum, unless he's much quicker than I think. Regardless, if he's going to unleash Jamaal, the other players better have good hands and be ready at all times.

wintermute
06-01-2007, 01:39 PM
I like everything I heard in this article. For those reading between the lines, JO does NOT fit into this scheme. He's far too slow to make it to half court in 3 seconds routinely.


i found it funny too that in obie's first interview he would devote so much time discussing jamaal while j.o. gets no mention at all.

however, if j.o. were still on the team, then obviously he'd be the guy who's number gets called in halfcourt sets, so i wouldn't read too much into it.

i'm starting to warm to the obie hiring. if nothing else, he looks set to improve the value of one of our more untradable players (tinsley), and i think another untradable (murph) would flourish as well. did you see that comment about volume 3 pt shooting? well murph at 40% 3pt% is our best shooter. too bad we traded al already.

Eindar
06-01-2007, 01:43 PM
however, if j.o. were still on the team, then obviously he'd be the guy who's number gets called in halfcourt sets, so i wouldn't read too much into it.



This is what scares me about the Obie/JO interaction. JO will know that if he doesn't get across in 3 seconds, he's going to get a play called for him. Which means he'll never sprint for a fast break. We don't need all 5 guys running in transition, but JO is gonna have to be that guy sometimes, and I don't think he's willing to be that guy.

bnd45
06-01-2007, 01:46 PM
Ok, but UB won't be calling him Obie in Indy.

I'm just joking around, but the name Obie gets on my nerves though.


I still don't expect Jamaal to be on the team, but we'll see. One thing I do remember about O'Brien's offense is he often does not play a traditional point guard, (or a true point guard) So I would expect to see Daniels playing a lot of point

Add this theory as another positive to Lamar Odom coming to the Pacers. Between him, Daniels, and Dunleavy we have 3 guys who can initiate the break and get the ball up the floor. After reading JOB's thoughts on early offense, I wouldn't mind keeping Tinsley around and see what he can do when he's "unleashed." (I'm with UB, Obie isn't going to work, so it'll be JOB for me)

Tom White
06-01-2007, 01:59 PM
Ok, but UB won't be calling him Obie in Indy.

Tell me that you did not just go third-person on us.

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 02:11 PM
This is strange the latest posts on top. I assume this isn't supposed to be happening??
Someone else noticed that, too. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I prefer to read the most recent posts first rather than weeding through everything. Then again, with the most recent post at the end how else is one to get the 411 w/o digging through all the BS first? :laugh:

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 02:17 PM
Someone else noticed that, too. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I prefer to read the most recent posts first rather than weeding through everything. Then again, with the most recent post at the end how else is one to get the 411 w/o digging through all the BS first? :laugh:
Wait a minute...

Post are now being arranged in date/time order. That ain't cool!!! That means if I live in Central Time Zone (which I do) and someone lives on the East Coast and we both post at 1PM, will the board now arrange that post based on the earlier time zone or will it's now extrapolate the date/time stamp based on its own local time synchronization? What gives??? :confused:

wjs
06-01-2007, 02:18 PM
Dick Harter is a great, great addition. (He will also be 77 years old on Opening Night.)

The love for Tinsley is disconcerting. Has Obie followed the Pacers during his sabbatical?

No interview face-to-face with the new coach? That's an interesting tidbit from Kravitz, and also disconcerting.

It is imperative the Pacers cash out J.O. for the best mix of young players as possible. I'm hoping J.O. + whatever can translate into Bynum + Gerald Green + whatever.

DisplacedKnick
06-01-2007, 02:25 PM
Yes that is what I was saying, The time had been off like 16-18 hrs in advance of the correct time, so now that it's correct we all future posts on a past thread are in the past :confused: until we catch up with ourselves late tonight ?

I thought it was just me - every time I logged onto a thread because someone posted recently all I saw was the same old post at the end.

I thought my browser was caching pages in some extremely strange way.

RWB
06-01-2007, 03:55 PM
Could someone post JO's comments on the hiring of our new coach? I must have missed them. ???????

MagicRat
06-01-2007, 04:02 PM
Sounds like me and Larry and Jim are all on the same page......

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 04:08 PM
So are we really going to refer to him as Obie. I certainly hope not and you can count me out. I'll refer to him as Jim. Jim O. O'Brien, but not Obie. It reminds me of Opie or Star Wars.

Slick Pinkham
06-01-2007, 04:15 PM
They called him Obie in Boston.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 04:21 PM
They called him Obie in Boston.

Ok, but UB won't be calling him Obie in Indy.

I'm just joking around, but the name Obie gets on my nerves though.


I still don't expect Jamaal to be on the team, but we'll see. One thing I do remember about O'Brien's offense is he often does not play a traditional point guard, (or a true point guard) So I would expect to see Daniels playing a lot of point

DisplacedKnick
06-01-2007, 04:28 PM
I like everything I heard in this article. For those reading between the lines, JO does NOT fit into this scheme. He's far too slow to make it to half court in 3 seconds routinely.


IMO JO works perfectly in this scheme. Even Phoenix doesn't get shots off the break all the time - I'd bet at least half, probably more, of their possessions are in the half-court.

The Spurs run plenty of breaks. TD isn't the guy running them but just because you have a good post player doesn't mean you don't break whenever you have a chance.

There will be plenty of half-court possessions and for those, JO's still your number 1 option.

DisplacedKnick
06-01-2007, 04:29 PM
Dick Harter is a great, great addition. (He will also be 77 years old on Opening Night.)


That's only 11 in dog years.

Or something like that.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 04:56 PM
Who needs the 7 second offense when you can have the 3 second offense!

I might have totally read it wrong, but it sounded like O'Brien was saying if the ball wasn't passed half-court after 3 seconds that he would call a play. If that was what he was saying...I wonder if he was refering to RC's offensive policies. Probably not, but I thought it would have been funny to say the least.

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 05:13 PM
I'm terribly confused. :confused: