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IUColtPacerFan
05-31-2007, 11:29 PM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/SPORTS04/70531038

robocop's cousin
05-31-2007, 11:31 PM
we gon hire Chuck Person I bet

pwee31
05-31-2007, 11:32 PM
Today at 5pm! It's on the Pacers.com homepage.

My guess is it's Boylan

Slick Pinkham
05-31-2007, 11:33 PM
I hope it is Shaw, but it won't be. I'd be OK with Boylan.

Anyone else and I'm more worried.

Frank Slade
05-31-2007, 11:34 PM
Interestingly enough, I was wondering how awkward it was going to be , bringing in a coach after a player like JO had been traded if that happens. So this makes sense on that front, even if the Coach really has no say so in the matter, it helps to have one in place, or at least looks better.

So if we see at the Press Conference that it's only Bird himself at the podium talking about the "new " coach.. does that mean ... :eyebrow:

Y2J
05-31-2007, 11:36 PM
I really don't have a preference, I'm just glad it's over. Now that a new coach is in place, any J.O. trade becomes the sole focus of Bird & Walsh.

D23
05-31-2007, 11:38 PM
If I remember correctly (and I may not... I've drank beer recently), isn't Boylan the only remaining candidate that's been interviewed twice? If that's the case, I'd put my money on him being the guy.

indyman37
05-31-2007, 11:39 PM
It would be ironic if we hired Shaw then traded with LA....

Hicks
05-31-2007, 11:42 PM
At this point I'm hoping for Boylan.

Just please no one who was on our bench this 2007 season.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 11:43 PM
Wait, that IS article says Jim O'Brien!

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 11:44 PM
It is Boylan. Well that is my guess.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 11:45 PM
lmao At Jim O'Brien

4040
05-31-2007, 11:45 PM
Uh, well, welcome then.

:confused:

Robobtowncolt
05-31-2007, 11:47 PM
Wow. Guess they found someone willing to work cheap.

Speed
05-31-2007, 11:47 PM
NOPE O'BRIEN, OMG where did that come from?!?!?!?!

Doug
05-31-2007, 11:48 PM
Yuk.

ABADays
05-31-2007, 11:48 PM
JMV just reported O'Brien. Where the hell did that come from?

Hicks
05-31-2007, 11:48 PM
So much for all the speculation, eh? Heh.

I can live with JO ( :D ), especially if he gets Dick Harter to come back as our defensive coach.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 11:48 PM
Oops, I need to edit my last respone.

I'm actually pretty happy it is Jim O'Brien. He really, really focuses on defense. I wonder if Dick Harter is coming with him.

I consider this good news. His name wasn't even rumored though was it.

He's a very quality coach.

RWB
05-31-2007, 11:49 PM
WRTV's report

http://www.theindychannel.com/sports/13421154/detail.html


Pacers To Name New Coach Today

POSTED: 3:33 pm EDT May 31, 2007
UPDATED: 3:45 pm EDT May 31, 2007

Email This Story | Print This Story

INDIANAPOLIS -- The Indiana Pacers are expected to announce the hiring of a new head coach Thursday during a 5 p.m. news conference at Conseco Fieldhouse.

The previous coach, Rick Carlisle, last month agreed with the team to step down after compiling a 199-164 record in his four years.

Recent speculation has focused on Chicago Bulls assistant coach Jim Boylan, who has interviewed for the Pacers' job.

indyman37
05-31-2007, 11:51 PM
My exact expression:

"The Pacers are expected to hire....:jawdrop:...Jim O'Brien." :mygod: Jim O'Who???

Y2J
05-31-2007, 11:52 PM
I guess we needed a new JO (Jim O'Brien) to replace the old JO (Jermaine O'Neal). God I'm clever.

But anyways, I guess he was desperate enough for the job. Remember, this guy was fired by both the Celtics and the 76ers. Ouch.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 11:52 PM
This team didnt need a defensive coach at all. Hiring this man is going to do nothing for this team, I bet anything that we still suck on defense next season.

ABADays
05-31-2007, 11:53 PM
So our steps down include coaching. Like I've said, it's not who we choose but who chooses us.

FlavaDave
05-31-2007, 11:53 PM
Uh...........................what?

indyman37
05-31-2007, 11:53 PM
He really, really focuses on defense.
Great job getting that "quicker-tempo" coach Larry!

pwee31
05-31-2007, 11:53 PM
Whoa! Talk about a smokescreen of candidates!

RWB
05-31-2007, 11:53 PM
Wow, if I remember correctly O'Brien was such a disciplinarian his players hated his guts and wanted to Sprewell him.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 11:53 PM
Just because it is surprising doesn't mean it isn't an excellent hire.

I think by any measure Jim is a better coahc than SVG or at the very least Jim is as good as Stan.

Just because we didn't hear rumor after rumor involving his name, please don't complain about him becoming a coach based on that. Oh and Jay, yes he coached the Celtics, but don't hold that against him.

avoidingtheclowns
05-31-2007, 11:55 PM
WHAT?!?

this comes out of absolutely nowhere. honestly, i'm not horrified at o'brien as a coach, but this makes the firing of rick make a lot less sense. because o'brien is a classic micromanager (right?) and players tune him out remarkably fast (see his coaching stint in Philly). he'll hold players accountable but that also is part of the pacer's recent theory of fixing the problems of two seaons ago today. we don't have severe disciplinary issues if we're trading tinsley.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 11:56 PM
Wow, if I remember correctly O'Brien was such a disciplinarian his players hated his guts and wanted to Sprewell him.

He was extremely popular with his players in Boston. Players like him at least in Boston.

In Philly there were some other issues going on, but Jim did a great job getting that team into the playoffs, they fell apart when he was replaced

Ragnar
05-31-2007, 11:56 PM
Well if we are going to rebuild we could certainly do worse. This is better than I expected after Jack and SVG took their names out. I thought for sure we were headed for Kurt Rambis or someone of his ability.

I cant say I am thrilled that for the 3rd time in a row the Pacers have managed not to hire someone who would have been right for our team.

But if we are trading J.O. and Jamaal for a bag of crap why not hire O'Brien. He is a good guy and will probably help develop the young guys into at least decent defenders.

pwee31
05-31-2007, 11:57 PM
I guess we needed a new JO (Jim O'Brien) to replace the old JO (Jermaine O'Neal). God I'm clever.

But anyways, I guess he was desperate enough for the job. Remember, this guy was fired by both the Celtics and the 76ers. Ouch.

In all fairness, he did pretty well in Boston with a Pierce/Walker lead team nonetheless. And EVERYONE seem to be on the hotseat in Philly during the Iverson era.

Not who I expected, but I can't say i'm disappointed. He's not too shabby.

Y2J
05-31-2007, 11:58 PM
So who will be our next coach? With this guys track record, he won't last long. Might as well start the interviewing process early.

Kraft
05-31-2007, 11:58 PM
Start the three-year clock right ... now. Well, at least we hope so.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 11:58 PM
What kind of offense does this man run?

Ragnar
05-31-2007, 11:58 PM
He was extremely popular with his players in Boston. Players like him at least in Boston.

In Philly there were some other issues going on, but Jim did a great job getting that team into the playoffs, they fell apart when he was replaced

I think the players in Boston liked him because compared to Pitino he was a players coach.

Kegboy
05-31-2007, 11:59 PM
What in the hell happened to no retreads?!!!!

I'm going to need time to process this. My first thought is this is a bargain basement move. However, I did say that it was more important that the coach is on the same page as Larry than who the coach actually is. I don't know.

Oh, god, I just had a flashback to that ****ty offense he ran in Boston where all they did was shoot 3's. :bawl:

pwee31
06-01-2007, 12:01 AM
He also reached the ECF with the Celtics with Pierce/Walker, that's quite and accomplishment.

Had any of our other candidates coached a team to the ECF finals?

naptownmenace
06-01-2007, 12:01 AM
Jim O'Brien is a decent coach. He got the Celts to the ECF before falling to the Nets back in '02. He's been around the league a long time and is a good Xs and Os kind of coach.

I'm surprised they didn't go with a former player though.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:01 AM
The only thing, and I do repeat the only thing I don't like about him is that he allows and or encourages his players to take a lot of 3's.

Jim and Dick Harter were really the first coaches in the NBA to take advantages of the new zone rules - not by playing a "zone" but by flooding the strong side of the court and blitzing all penetration.

Defensively I'm really, really happy - if Dick Harter comes along with him or if Jim coaches the same system. I also remeember reading training camp reports about how they practiced defense, defense, defense,.

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 12:02 AM
Is it safe to assume the press conference will be on NBATV? I was going over to my parents tonight anyway (they have it, I don't.)

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 12:02 AM
btw this also means that vescey being the oracle of all things pacer is total crap. i assume JO will be wearing a Nuggets jersey in the next few weeks.

Trader Joe
06-01-2007, 12:04 AM
Damn Walsh played this close to the vest, completely out of left field. This choice gets a meh from me.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:04 AM
What kind of offense does this man run?

In Boston and in Philly he was big on getting the ball to his star players and giving them freedom to operate - as long as they played defense. Jim wasn't a fan of equal opportunity offense, he played through his starts

Y2J
06-01-2007, 12:04 AM
You know, there are actually 2 basketball coaches named Jim O'Brien. One, the one everyone is assuming, who coached the Celtics and 76ers, And the other who coached Boston College and Ohio State, who was replaced by Thad Matta in 2004. It's almost 100% certain it's the NBA guy, but it would be funny if it ended up being the NCAA guy.

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 12:05 AM
The only thing, and I do repeat the only thing I don't like about him is that he allows and or encourages his players to take a lot of 3's.

Jim and Dick Harter were really the first coaches in the NBA to take advantages of the new zone rules - not by playing a "zone" but by flooding the strong side of the court and blitzing all penetration.

Defensively I'm really, really happy - if Dick Harter comes along with him or if Jim coaches the same system. I also remeember reading training camp reports about how they practiced defense, defense, defense,.

God, we better get some ****ing shooters in here. I don't want to see the likes of Tinsley, Dunleavy and Murphy encouraged to gun it.

I think Harter's long retired. I can't see him coming back.

Buck, I know you like O'Brien, but weren't you the guy who kept saying you wanted to take a chance on a great coach?

Trader Joe
06-01-2007, 12:05 AM
What kind of offense does this man run?

Well in Philly it was the Iverson offense. In Boston it was the we suck.

Doug
06-01-2007, 12:05 AM
My cynical side says he's "disposable". Coach us through our down years, develop players, then we get rid of him and hire somebody else.

I was hoping we'd 'swing for the fences' with somebody like Ivaroni or even Boylan, and not hire, as somebody else put, a retread. Or, if it was a "retread" it was somebody like JVG.

I think this points to JO being traded, FWIW.

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 12:06 AM
You know, there are actually 2 basketball coaches named Jim O'Brien. One, the one everyone is assuming, who coached the Celtics and 76ers, And the other who coached Boston College and Ohio State, who was replaced by Thad Matta in 2004. It's almost 100% certain it's the NBA guy, but it would be funny if it ended up being the NCAA guy.

Considering he was fired amid a recruiting scandal, he'd fit right in with our image.

Kraft
06-01-2007, 12:06 AM
My cynical side says he's "disposable". Coach us through our down years, develop players, then we get rid of him and hire somebody else.

Ding. One word: stopgap.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 12:08 AM
Utter dissapointment, that is all Im feeling right now. Ill say more when Ive had time to process my thoughts. But until then Im going to hold onto a shred of hope that this isnt legit.

CableKC
06-01-2007, 12:08 AM
Good God....what a day so far. I don't know whether I should be happy or not.

Anyone have any speculation as to what this means for our future?

With a coach like O'Brien.....are we rebuilding or retooling?

maragin
06-01-2007, 12:09 AM
Lame.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:09 AM
Buck, I know you like O'Brien, but weren't you the guy who kept saying you wanted to take a chance on a great coach?


Yes but I've always like Jim, I really have - I like him more than SVG. Even though I wasn't trumpeting Jim as a candidate, I've mentioned him a few times over the last year or so.

I should turn JMV off

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 12:10 AM
He was extremely popular with his players in Boston. Players like him at least in Boston.

In Philly there were some other issues going on, but Jim did a great job getting that team into the playoffs, they fell apart when he was replaced
That's the first positive thing I've read concering O'Brien's expected hiring. But man! His name comes so far out of left field...

Strong on defense, tough on his players, had limited success getting the 76ers back to the post-season...they haven't been back since he was canned...

Only 2 head coaching jobs in the NBA. Why does this hiring plus the reported JO trade scare the :censored: outta me?

EDIT: I stand somewhat corrected. I'd forgotten that O'Brien had coached the Celtics to the ECF back in 2002. Maybe this guy isn't so bad after all despite having coached only 2 NBA teams. Seems he's had success in both endeavors.

Roaming Gnome
06-01-2007, 12:10 AM
:confused: Meh! :shrug:

RWB
06-01-2007, 12:10 AM
So, were the Ps interviewing for the head coaching job or Jim's assistants?

Speed
06-01-2007, 12:11 AM
Wow this whole thread reminds me of the ESPN commercial where the guy was talking out of a uniquie orafice. Can people at least kinda gather info or state info, instead of he sucks, wow.

Frank Slade
06-01-2007, 12:12 AM
Curious as to if recent events and rumors swirling on JO's depature had any effect on certain coaching prospects to reconsider ? Perhaps not, but makes me wonder.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:12 AM
Well...ESPNEWS is finally breaking this story.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:13 AM
Here are some Sixers fans comments about Jim

http://www.rateitall.com/i-60924-jim-obrien-philadelphia-76ers.aspx

bnd45
06-01-2007, 12:14 AM
Looking for some positives:

He did get the Celtics to the ECF in '02 and the 2nd Round in '03 (beat us in the 1st round) I don't remember those Celtic teams being very good so he overachieved. They had Pierce and Walker and a bunch of role players (Kenny Anderson, Rodney Rogers, Tony Delk, Tony Battie, Erick Williams, Vitaly Potapenko, Walter McCarty) The team that beat us in '03 was worse. Ainge made some horrible moves and set him up to fail.

He got an even worse 76er team to the playoffs despite clashing with AI (every Philly coach clashed with AI)

He enjoyed some success with really average teams.

Our roster is still a ? but at least now we have a guy in charge.

4040
06-01-2007, 12:14 AM
It would take one of the best hirings ever to make this roster win.

RWB
06-01-2007, 12:19 AM
If JO (which the star usually does) doesn't come out in Public to endorse this guy what would that mean????

After the terrible season the off season has been kind of fun.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:21 AM
If JO (which the star usually does) doesn't come out in Public to endorse this guy what would that mean????

After the terrible season the off season has been kind of fun.

The only coach JO is worried about right now is Phil Jackson and how he'll fit into the triangle and with Kobe

ajbry
06-01-2007, 12:23 AM
You've got to be kidding me. We get the chance at some young, potential-ridden coaches who respond well to the modern NBA dynamic and we choose Jim O'Brien?

This franchise is going down the ****ing drain.

pwee31
06-01-2007, 12:25 AM
He didn't coach Philly for long at all, but still lead them to the playoffs as well. They even took a game from the Pistons, who eventually went to the Finals and loss to the Spurs in 7. And they should have won another game that went to OT. Iverson didn't like him and he was ousted for Cheeks, but then again.. who DID Iverson like.

The Celtic teams weren't that good to me either, but they competed and played hard. I believe one of the wins they got against the Nets, was a huge comeback playoff win.

His team's played hard, and overachieved in my opinion

317Kim
06-01-2007, 12:26 AM
Jim O'Brien. I did not see this coming. I thought Boylan had it goin' on.

Wow :confused: much?

Evan_The_Dude
06-01-2007, 12:27 AM
Honestly, that's the best hire we could have made. I never even thought of O'Brien. I LOVE the way his teams play defense. Him and Carlisle have the same idea's but O'Brien is better at executing them IMO. Hiring O'Brien is probably the safest and most effective move we could have made. He's not exactly a run of the mill guy, but he's not inexperienced either, and he has some success stories. I give this hiring an A+

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 12:27 AM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/obrien_release_070531.html



PACERS NAME O’BRIEN HEAD COACH



Indianapolis, May 31, 2007 -- The Indiana Pacers announced Thursday that Jim O’Brien has been named head coach.

The 55-year-old O’Brien becomes the Pacers’ 13th head coach in franchise history.

“We’re very happy to have Jim as the new coach of the Indiana Pacers,” said President of Basketball Operations Larry Bird. “After speaking with him the last 10 days, we have a vision of where we want this team to go, from how we are going to practice, to how we are going to play and the style we’re going to play. We are on the same page. I believe it is very important to have a coach with experience and I feel Jim is the guy who will take us to the next level.”


<TABLE width=65 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/jim_obrien.jpg
<CENTER>O'Brien</CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
O’Brien, who previously has been the head coach of the Boston Celtics and Philadelphia 76ers, said, “I am thrilled and honored to have the opportunity to be the coach of the Indiana Pacers. The tradition of this franchise and the passion that this state has for the game of basketball has been well-documented. Since this job became available, it has been my dream to get in front of Larry and Donnie (Walsh) to talk about my strong interest in this job. I’ve been very fortunate to get in front of them and feel great about the outcome.

“I look forward to getting to work and being an integral part of the Pacers’ future.”
O’Brien spent four seasons as the Celtics’ head coach, compiling a 139-119 record (.539) with playoff appearances in 2002 and 2003, including a trip to the Eastern Conference Finals in 2002. After coaching the Celtics, O’Brien coached the Philadelphia 76ers for one season in 2004-05, compiling a 43-39 record and making the NBA Playoffs. He has sat out the last two seasons and recently has been writing a column for ESPN.com, The Insider.

O’Brien has been in the coaching profession since 1974-75, serving as an assistant coach at Wheeling Jesuit College, Pembroke State College, the University of Maryland, Saint Joseph’s University, the University of Oregon, the New York Knicks, the University of Kentucky and the Celtics. He has also been a head coach for Wheeling Jesuit and the University of Dayton.
O’Brien played collegiately at Saint Joseph’s University and is in that school’s Hall of Fame as well as the Big Five (Philadelphia) Hall of Fame. He earned his Bachelor’s Degree from Saint Joseph’s in 1974 and received his MBA from the University of Maryland in 1981. O’Brien is married to Sharon and they have three children.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:27 AM
You've got to be kidding me. We get the chance at some young, potential-ridden coaches who respond well to the modern NBA dynamic and we choose Jim O'Brien?

This franchise is going down the ****ing drain.

I completely do not understand this reaction - although, it is the most common one.

What about the goal of getting the best coach available. And I think they did that - sure I argued in favor of taking a chance on someone, but I think Jim good enough that he should not have been passed over.

I also think by any objective measure, Jim is an excellent NBA coach.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:27 AM
I just noticed, sadly, that practically everyone we interviewed has been some part of a Pacers or Celtics team.

Iavaroni never stood a chance...

bnd45
06-01-2007, 12:28 AM
Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but I was doing some digging about his Celtic days and came across this quote from Employee #8 after he was traded to Dallas:

"We all know the business and respect the business. Obviously, I'll miss Coach O'Brien. We've grown close. Hopefully, we can continue to be close. It's very rare that you find a coach-player relationship like that. He had a lot of respect for my game and for my opinion of the game. I just want to thank all the fans and people who supported me over the seven years. They know who they are."

The entire article can be found here: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2003/10/21/celtics_deal_walker_to_dallas/

(Some good insight into his approach to offense, defense and relationship with the players)

RWB
06-01-2007, 12:29 AM
If O'bry like to toss up the three then Chuck Person may still have a seat on the bench. Or just as likely Chuck will be behind a counter in the Home Court giftshop this fall. :D

QuickRelease
06-01-2007, 12:29 AM
Guys, give him a chance. How can you say we have the wrong guy for our team? We don't even know what team we'll have next year. To get a coach of this quality ain't half bad. Don't call him a failure before he even sets foot in Conseco. Wait and see what he does, and what he has to work with. Anyone that can make Antoine Walker work is a good coach.

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 12:30 AM
“We’re very happy to have Jim as the new coach of the Indiana Pacers,” said President of Basketball Operations Larry Bird. “After speaking with him the last 10 days, we have a vision of where we want this team to go, from how we are going to practice, to how we are going to play and the style we’re going to play. We are on the same page. I believe it is very important to have a coach with experience and I feel Jim is the guy who will take us to the next level.”

Okay, this is what I want to hear. Do I trust in Larry's vision? No, of course not, but you need to have them on the same page. And if this does go down in flames, Larry damn well better be held accountable.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:31 AM
One thing everyone must admit. Jim O'Brien was able to get the most out of Walker - no other coach has been able to get half of what O"Brien got out of him.

The other thing I really rememeber about Jim, is he tailors his offense around the star players, he tailors his system around the star players - and he gives them a lot of freedom to play on the offensive end as long as they play defense.

He doesn't try to plug players into his offensive system, he builds the offensive system around his players. ------- you all should like that right?

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:31 AM
I may have just hear this wrong, but I think they just said on the Hot List that Larry would be on later to discuss the hiring.

Suaveness
06-01-2007, 12:31 AM
I don't really know what to think here

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 12:33 AM
One thing everyone must admit. Jim O'Brien was able to get the most out of Walker - no other coach has been able to get half of what O"Brien got out of him.

The other thing I really rememeber about Jim, is he taylors his offense around the star players, he taylors his system around the star players - and he gives them a lot of freedom to play on the offensive end as long as they play defense.Isnt that pretty much what we had with Carlisle? Now what was the point of firing RC? I guess I just hate this move because it seems more of the same thing weve been seeing from TPTB for the last 3 years instead of actually turning in a new direction.

aero
06-01-2007, 12:34 AM
wow...we are gonna suck next season :(

flop for #1 pick next season ? ...looks like thats what we're doing...

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:35 AM
Isnt that pretty much what we had with Carlisle? Now what was the point of firing RC? I guess I just hate this move because it seems more of the same thing weve been seeing from TPTB for the last 3 years instead of actually turning in a new direction.

No, everyone said that Rick tried to stuff the players into "his system". (I don't agree with that by the way, but that seemed to be what most fans thought

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 12:35 AM
Okay, let's stop the revisionist history here. O'Brien didn't make Walker a better player. If he had played up to his potential Boston wouldn't have dumped him, and it was long after his days in Boston when Walker even came close to being in shape.

O'Brien's decent. He by no chance is an "excellent" coach. He's somebody that just screams to me Peck's axiom about making the playoffs means a successful year to Walsh.

Y2J
06-01-2007, 12:35 AM
I just looked it up, and the during his 3 full seasons of coaching (2001-2002, 2002-2003 in Boston, 2004-2005 in Philly) his teams finished ranked in the 20's in points-per-100 possessions each season, and in the top-10 in defense each season. So he's strictly a defensive guy, which disappoints me. An offense like the Suns is so much more enjoyable to watch.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:36 AM
Isnt that pretty much what we had with Carlisle? Now what was the point of firing RC? I guess I just hate this move because it seems more of the same thing weve been seeing from TPTB for the last 3 years instead of actually turning in a new direction.

Give me an example of what you mean by a new direction

Since86
06-01-2007, 12:36 AM
AGAIN, why in the freaking world is this Larry's hire? I've seen many quotes from Donnie talking about the process.

Some things just remain constant, overreactions saying this team is going to the ****ter, and all bad things are Larry's fault.

bnd45
06-01-2007, 12:37 AM
Thundermaker: What team have you been watching the past 4 seasons? Offensive freedom and Rick Carlisle wouldn't be two terms I would lump together. We're not going to become the Suns, but it will be refreshing to see things opened up a little bit and the players respond to a new voice.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:37 AM
Okay, this is what I want to hear. Do I trust in Larry's vision? No, of course not, but you need to have them on the same page. And if this does go down in flames, Larry damn well better be held accountable.
I have somewhat of a belief in his vision. But maybe because I keep thinking that if we would have followed Larry's vision a couple of years ago, Artest would have never been able to go into the stands.

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 12:37 AM
So we pretty much hired Rick Carlisle again?

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:37 AM
Okay, let's stop the revisionist history here. O'Brien didn't make Walker a better player. If he had played up to his potential Boston wouldn't have dumped him, and it was long after his days in Boston when Walker even came close to being in shape.




Are you saying that Jim did not get more out of Walker than any other coach he's played for (and he's played for a ton of coaches)

I think by any measure Walker's best days werew with the Celtics with O'Brien as coach

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 12:38 AM
One thing everyone must admit. Jim O'Brien was able to get the most out of Walker - no other coach has been able to get half of what O"Brien got out of him.

The other thing I really rememeber about Jim, is he tailors his offense around the star players, he tailors his system around the star players - and he gives them a lot of freedom to play on the offensive end as long as they play defense.

He doesn't try to plug players into his ioffensive system, he builds the offensive system around his players. ------- you all should like that right?

buck, at least for me, its not that obrien is a bad coach or even just a so-so coach. but he's so similar to carlisle and yet carlisle has been much more successful. carlisle's firing makes less sense when you hire a guy like o'brien in his place. give carlisle a guy like mike brown and suddenly carlisle is a guy that likes good defense.

like i said, i'm not disappointed in the quality of coach - i'm terribly disappointed in management for trying to fix problems from two years go (discipline) and not looking one or two moves into the future.

Y2J
06-01-2007, 12:38 AM
wow...we are gonna suck next season :(

flop for #1 pick next season ? ...looks like thats what we're doing...

I hope so.

O.J. Mayo
Shawne Williams
Danny Granger
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum


With Ike off the bench. A young team to get excited over.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:38 AM
AGAIN, why in the freaking world is this Larry's hire? I've seen many quotes from Donnie talking about the process.

Some things just remain constant, overreactions saying this team is going to the ****ter, and all bad things are Larry's fault.
If you are refering to my post, you may not be but, I am hearing just posting what I hear from ESPN.

BillS
06-01-2007, 12:39 AM
An offense like the Suns is so much more enjoyable to watch.

Which is, of course, why the Suns are in the NBA Finals... :zip:

owl
06-01-2007, 12:39 AM
Oops, I need to edit my last respone.

I'm actually pretty happy it is Jim O'Brien. He really, really focuses on defense. I wonder if Dick Harter is coming with him.

I consider this good news. His name wasn't even rumored though was it.

He's a very quality coach.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++

UB, I concur. This is a solid choice. At the very least I am willing to give the
guy a chance. People are jumping off cliffs and berating the Pacers as clueless. People have lost all patience. I hope that Bird sticks to his plan,
whatever that is and does not give in the clamor. DW has been very good at
that through the years and has served him well. The negativity has gotten out of hand.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:40 AM
buck, at least for me, its not that obrien is a bad coach or even just a so-so coach. but he's so similar to carlisle and yet carlisle has been much more successful. carlisle's firing makes less sense when you hire a guy like o'brien in his place. give carlisle a guy like mike brown and suddenly carlisle is a guy that likes good defense.

like i said, i'm not disappointed in the quality of coach - i'm terribly disappointed in management for trying to fix problems from two years go (discipline) and not looking one or two moves into the future.

I disgaree that Rick and Jim are similar. Their offensive philosphies are different, and their defensive systems are different

Swingman
06-01-2007, 12:42 AM
I hope so.

O.J. Mayo
Shawne Williams
Danny Granger
Lamar Odom
Andrew Bynum


With Ike off the bench. A young team to get excited over.

No way on OJ Mayo. He's a nutcase. We are trying to rid of our attitude problems. There's too many good PGs in next years draft to take Mayo.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:42 AM
buck, at least for me, its not that obrien is a bad coach or even just a so-so coach. but he's so similar to carlisle and yet carlisle has been much more successful. carlisle's firing makes less sense when you hire a guy like o'brien in his place. give carlisle a guy like mike brown and suddenly carlisle is a guy that likes good defense.

like i said, i'm not disappointed in the quality of coach - i'm terribly disappointed in management for trying to fix problems from two years go (discipline) and not looking one or two moves into the future.

I disgaree that Rick and Jim are similar. Their offensive philosphies are different, and their defensive systems are different

If I can locate my old tapes of the 2003 playoff series berween the Pacers and Celtics, I'll watch some of that. Oh wait, I might have thrown all those out in my purging of all things isiah Thomas a few years back

I know one of his years in Boston he was able to get that team to be in the top 4 in defensive FG%. And that team had several bad defenders. He'll do that here as well. - more I think about it, the more I like it

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 12:43 AM
I disgaree that Rick and Jim are similar. Their offensive philosphies are different, and their defensive systems are different

right, but i guess i'm talking about players tuning him out. i could be wrong, but i've always thought of both coaches as great X&O guys that seemed to have trouble communicating with their teams.

like i said don't get me wrong, i'm saying i like o'brien, i just don't understand the firing of carlisle because i thought of carlisle as a better o'brien.

Hicks
06-01-2007, 12:43 AM
I'm kind of excited. I admit it.

Sollozzo
06-01-2007, 12:43 AM
AGAIN, why in the freaking world is this Larry's hire? I've seen many quotes from Donnie talking about the process.

Some things just remain constant, overreactions saying this team is going to the ****ter, and all bad things are Larry's fault.


And conversely, if there was a move that fans liked, we'd probably here how the great Donnie Walsh was a genius.

We need to let Bird sink or swim on his own.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:43 AM
I disgaree that Rick and Jim are similar. Their offensive philosphies are different, and their defensive systems are different
Unclebuck, I know you already said that O'Brien will run the offense through his All-Stars, but do you think we will play more of a grinding half-court game or try to quick quiker and run (not like Phoenix) in the open court. Because if he loves his players taking threes, the first thing that comes to mind is run-and-gun.

Since86
06-01-2007, 12:43 AM
No I was referring to Kegboy about if this doesn't pan out, then it should be Larry's head.

It's just another example of how Larry's "moves" are stupid, while Donnie gets the credit for good ones.

Naptown_Seth
06-01-2007, 12:44 AM
He also reached the ECF with the Celtics with Pierce/Walker, that's quite and accomplishment.

Had any of our other candidates coached a team to the ECF finals?
SVG

Previously Rick Carlisle when he was hired.

And he reached the ECF when the East was at it's lowest point, when NJ was the only team remotely capable of matching the top West teams. His other big success came at the hands of Isiah's brilliant coaching, followed by being swept out in round 2. Of course his Celtics did beat Rick's Pistons that ECF season, but that was the Pistons prior to Rip and Billups.


Don't get me wrong, he's not a hack or anything, but this choice does clearly come out of left field.

The impression his commentary at ESPN left me with was of a guy who was pretty reasonable, discipline and defensive oriented and honestly not that far off of where Rick was in his outlook on the game. Not in playbook necessarily, but in how they like to handle players, except that Jim seems more willing to confront players.


I don't know what to think of this deal to be honest. I won't just like it for the sake of liking it or hate it because it's a surprise. I do think Boylan was a good choice and I wonder how the Pacers can hire a coach they haven't even interviewed as far as we heard (or was he mentioned previously?).

Evan_The_Dude
06-01-2007, 12:44 AM
I don't get it. People wanted Carlisle fired no matter what, but now some of you are upset because we didn't get the next Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, or Greg Popovich... whoever that was supposed to be. There wasn't another candidate that had proven much more than O'Brien as a head coach. So this decision makes a lot of sense. It's not time for a rookie coach, because we have too many players that need an experienced coach. The common sense decision would be to hire someone with experience. O'Brien is a DAMN good hire.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:44 AM
No I was referring to Kegboy about if this doesn't pan out, then it should be Larry's head.

It's just another example of how Larry's "moves" are stupid, while Donnie gets the credit for good ones.
Then just disregard my earlier post.

Hicks
06-01-2007, 12:45 AM
AGAIN, why in the freaking world is this Larry's hire? I've seen many quotes from Donnie talking about the process.

Some things just remain constant, overreactions saying this team is going to the ****ter, and all bad things are Larry's fault.

For what it's worth, I see it too, S86.

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 12:47 AM
PRESS CONFERNCE ON PACERS.COM GO NOW

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 12:47 AM
http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia-live/nba/9198/300_nba-press_wm_1_050819.asx&video=blank&nbasite=pacers

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:47 AM
For what it's worth, I see it too, S86.
It's cause we have to have a scapegoat in the front office!

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 12:47 AM
Give me an example of what you mean by a new directionI was hoping for the same thing I thought you were: taking a risk on a young coach who could be the next great coach instead of just a mediocre safe bet. Hiring O'brien is obviously the safe bet option. This just comes off as the same reactionary damage-control moves weve been seeing from TPTB for the past couple years instead of being proactive and taking risks.

As for RC's offense, Ive always been under the impression that RC built the offense around our best players, primarily JO. Maybe the difference Im not seeing is RC is more structured? Either way I was hoping for a more balanced team approach.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:48 AM
Unclebuck, I know you already said that O'Brien will run the offense through his All-Stars, but do you think we will play more of a grinding half-court game or try to quick quiker and run (not like Phoenix) in the open court. Because if he loves his players taking threes, the first thing that comes to mind is run-and-gun.

Excellent question - and I don't know the answer - maybe he'll have some comments at the press conference.

His offense in Bostona and in Philly was really simple he got the ball to Pierce and Walker and in Philly he got it to Iverson and let them operate - there wasn't a lot of intricate offensive plays like Rick likes to run.

We'll see if Jim changes that approach here with this roster

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 12:50 AM
I was hoping for the same thing I thought you were: taking a risk on a young coach who could be the next great coach instead of just a mediocre safe bet. Hiring O'brien is obviously the safe bet option. This just comes off as the same reactionary damage-control moves weve been seeing from TPTB for the past couple years instead of being proactive and taking risks.

As for RC's offense, Ive always been under the impression that RC built the offense around our best players, primarily JO. Maybe the difference Im not seeing is RC is more structured? Either way I was hoping for a more balanced team approach.

I guess I think O'Brien is a much better than mediocre, so while I agree with your approach, I think you are underestimating Jim's coaching





Where can we watch the presser? anyone know. NBATV, ESPNNEWS, WTHR.com anyone know

Evan_The_Dude
06-01-2007, 12:51 AM
The best thing about this whole thing is that the team hired a coach that shares the same vision as TPTB. A lot of people could easily see that Carlisle wanted to do something different than what Bird and Walsh wanted him to do, and that (and injuries) is why this team never really fit together.

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 12:51 AM
NOW

http://broadband.nba.com/cc/playa.php?content=video&url=http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia-live/nba/9198/300_nba-press_wm_1_050819.asx&video=blank&nbasite=pacers

Hicks
06-01-2007, 12:52 AM
Remember that Jim would occasionally write for ESPN.com. This article explains IMO why he and Larry are on the same page. The first part of this article is very similar to what Larry Bird has been talking about for a while.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2877387&type=blogEntry



Monday, May 21, 2007
Playoffs are a balancing act
<hr noshade="noshade" size="1" width="100%">
Balance seems to be the key word when attempting to build a team that can regularly compete for an NBA championship. Balance as in a team that can beat you at whatever game you want to play.

You want to run, they'll run. Grind it out, that's okay too.


Developing a team with the capabilities to be able to play comfortably at all tempos is a difficult challenge. San Antonio is clearly a perfectly tuned franchise in regards to the ability to beat you in an up and down game played in the hundreds or a defensive duel in the eighties.


Utah showed this type of ability disposing of Golden State in five games.


Phoenix, despite falling short in the second round against the Spurs, showed they understand that the type of balance we are talking about is the thing that separates them from the championship they are so feverishly chasing. What was lost in the fiasco that Game 4 turned into, with Robert Horry's body check on Steve Nash, was the Sun's giant step in beating San Antonio at the Spurs' tempo.


As much as the whole basketball world would love to have seen a Suns Golden State series for the up and down, wild shoot out that these games promised, it was not to be. They lost to teams that were put together in a way that understands the balance between getting good shots and being able to defend whatever is thrown at them. This type of balance is the very essence of deep runs in playoff basketball and it is a very hard balance to bring a franchise to strike. It takes time and some luck to get personnel that have the ability to beat all comers in a seven game series.


Dallas, as an example, observed two years ago that they did not have the defensive mind set that would allow them to hang a banner. They shored up their defense to complement a well oiled offensive team and came within two wins of the championship. The Mavs were many experts pick to win it all this year but showed their vulnerability against the frenetic Warriors. Tinkering with a roster and a style can be as delicate as the Fed trying to balance the economy.


Now you know the Mavs are obsessed with making sure they have the personnel in place to be able to handle any tempo in the future.


In contrast, look at the Spurs off-season move that may not have seemed a big deal at the time. They let a slower Nazr Mohammed leave and added a more mobile big man in Francisco Elson. They also did a great job of bringing Fabricio Oberto another mobile big man along to shore up a front line that could succeed against anything the West had to offer.


In Houston, Jeff Van Gundy probably lost his job because he and the Rockets management did not see eye to eye on whether they had the personnel in place to be able to have this balance. Now the challenge for Houston, and it's a big one, is to find someone that can keep them near the top defensively (the Rockets were first in field goal defense) and be able to increase the tempo and still have Yao Ming as the focal point of their offense. This is a very complicated test for the next coach of the Rockets. After all the Rockets won 52 games but would be severely challenged in series that pit them against faster up tempo teams as well as the Spurs and Jazz.


Just because a team wants to play at a Suns type of tempo does not mean they can. The Raptors with Bryan Colangelo manning the controls would love to play at an extreme tempo that is difficult to guard. But, Colangelo and Sam Mitchell found in the first two weeks of the season that they were not ready for this style just yet and a balance needed to be struck. It was a great call that saw the two of them awarded the Executive and Coach of the Year honors respectively.


This balancing act is a bigger challenge to the teams out West because of the depth and disparity of the teams that you have to get through to reach the Finals.


At the beginning of the year I thought it would be the Spurs and Detroit in the Finals.


Joe Dumars, the man that makes the decisions for the Detroit Pistons, knows that he has to beat only one of these teams from the West. He almost for sure had to think he was putting together this Pistons team to beat the Spurs or the Mavs. If they can get through the East which now seems almost a certainty, because of the way that Flip Saunders has them playing, the Pistons have a realistic chance at taking it all.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 12:53 AM
Excellent question - and I don't know the answer - maybe he'll have some comments at the press conference.

His offense in Bostona and in Philly was really simple he got the ball to Pierce and Walker and in Philly he got it to Iverson and let them operate - there wasn't a lot of intricate offensive plays like Rick likes to run.

We'll see if Jim changes that approach here with this rosterAt this point assuming that we dont make any trades this season (God I hope that doesnt come true), this means we'll have a coach who will be handing the reigns over to JO and Tinsley. Thats about the biggest trainwreck I could imagine.

pwee31
06-01-2007, 12:53 AM
It's live on Wish Tv

Major Cold
06-01-2007, 12:59 AM
I am willing to give O'Brien a shot. If we hired an assisstant the TPTB hyper-skeptics would complain that they are unproven or washed up pine riders. At least this way we something in the past to assess.

TMJ31
06-01-2007, 01:03 AM
Lol @ Larry:

When asked if he is looking to trade JO

"I hear Kobe wants to be traded, so maybe we can talk"

blanket
06-01-2007, 01:04 AM
Whoo-hoo!

Obbie thinks Dick Harter will be joining him as an assistant!

Hicks
06-01-2007, 01:04 AM
Jim is saying on wthr.com's stream that he wants Dick Harter here and implied that Harter's interested. I hope so.

CableKC
06-01-2007, 01:04 AM
Hardball question to Bird abourt JONeal and Vescey's rumor.

Whose Dick Carter? He's some Asssistant coach that coached with O'Brien.

Sounds like there maybe other Assistant coaches from other teams "under contract" that they consider.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 01:04 AM
Dick Harter is coming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



That is the best news to me

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 01:05 AM
He's somebody that just screams to me Peck's axiom about making the playoffs means a successful year to Walsh.
"We expect to make the playoffs." -- Jim O'brien Press Conference

aero
06-01-2007, 01:05 AM
Dick Harter is coming !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i cant help but laugh every time i hear his name :blush:

CableKC
06-01-2007, 01:06 AM
Jim is saying on wthr.com's stream that he wants Dick Harter here and implied that Harter's interested. I hope so.
And he is?

( I'm not being sarcastic here.....I really have no clue who he is )

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 01:08 AM
And he is?

( I'm not being sarcastic here.....I really have no clue who he is )

he was an assistant with carlisle under bird.

and yes, harter's name is good to hear

Mourning
06-01-2007, 01:11 AM
What kind of offense does this man run?

Hold on... you start by spewing out some negative stuff... before you even know what kind of coach he is :huh:. Isn't that kind of... premature?

For the record: this came totally out of nowhere, but I love this choice.

He worked in Boston and his players really liked him there and he got them going again after Pitino.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 01:13 AM
intersting

pwee31
06-01-2007, 01:13 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed the press conference

indyman37
06-01-2007, 01:13 AM
So basically we know Harter is coming...so one of the assistant coaches is already out of a job.

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 01:14 AM
Jim...tailors his offense around the star players, he tailors his system around the star players - and he gives them a lot of freedom to play on the offensive end as long as they play defense.

He doesn't try to plug players into his offensive system, he builds the offensive system around his players. ------- you all should like that right?

Isnt that pretty much what we had with Carlisle? Now what was the point of firing RC? I guess I just hate this move because it seems more of the same thing weve been seeing from TPTB for the last 3 years instead of actually turning in a new direction.

No, everyone said that Rick tried to stuff the players into "his system". (I don't agree with that by the way, but that seemed to be what most fans thought)

Thundermaker: What team have you been watching the past 4 seasons? Offensive freedom and Rick Carlisle wouldn't be two terms I would lump together. We're not going to become the Suns, but it will be refreshing to see things opened up a little bit and the players respond to a new voice.

Bird's quote from the Pacers' New Release on hiring Jim O'Brien:

“After speaking with him the last 10 days, we have a vision of where we want this team to go, from how we are going to practice, to how we are going to play and the style we’re going to play. We are on the same page."

I'm with those who question what exactly is Bird's vision for this team?

I'm all for a coach who is a disciplinarian. I'm all for a coach who caters an offense around the team's overall talent instead of trying to force the "talent" to fit his mold. Until the brawl, RC did a pretty good job of getting his players to perform to their talents. However, IMO he lacked creativity and wasn't willing to take risks especially during those times where teams knew with a high degree of certainty what the Pacers were going to do. I only hope O'Brien can get these Pacers to believe in themselves and over achieve like he did with the Celtics and 76ers because frankly I just don't see it (assuming JO is traded as rumored).

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 01:14 AM
Just watching the press conference, Jim has a presense about him. Just from the press conference, he seems like the type of coach and man who is a good leader. And his father-in-law is Jack Ramsey and there is nothing wrong with that.


Anyone else pick up on Bird's somewhat weak denial of the JO rumors.

CableKC
06-01-2007, 01:15 AM
"We expect to make the playoffs." -- Jim O'brien Press Conference

Actually, I immediately thought that there is no other answer that he can give. I don't think that TPTB want to freely admit that we are going to rebuild....ESPECIALLY IF JONeal is sent to the Lakers.

Tom White
06-01-2007, 01:15 AM
I completely do not understand this reaction - although, it is the most common one.

I don't really remember much about O'Brien, so I'm not as enthused at this point as Buck is.

I will, however, say this. If Iverson did not like him, and ajbry does not like him, then I'll probably wind up being very much in favor of this hire.

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 01:16 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed the press conference
I hope the video feed is posted on Pacers.com soon. I'd like to know what was said.

pwee31
06-01-2007, 01:17 AM
Lol @ Larry:

When asked if he is looking to trade JO

"I hear Kobe wants to be traded, so maybe we can talk"

That was hilarious!!

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 01:17 AM
So basically we know Harter is coming...so one of the assistant coaches is already out of a job.

I would expect them all to be out of a job and they should be right away. Jim will bring in all of his own people.

PaceBalls
06-01-2007, 01:17 AM
Great hire! And totally out of nowhere. No speculation at all from anyone on this guy..
Plus we are getting Mr. Harter to get the boys in line.

Let's bring back the D!

A+ on the first move of the offseason.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 01:17 AM
Part of me thought Bird was almost making his parting comments when he first started talking about Jermaine, but then he changed my mind when he said he heard that Kobe was avaliable.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 01:18 AM
I would expect them all to be out of a job and they should be right away. Jim will bring in all of his own people.
AMEN...CLEAN HOUSE!!!

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 01:19 AM
Just watching the press conference, Jim has a presense about him. Just from the press conference, he seems like the type of coach and man who is a good leader. And his father-in-law is Jack Ramsey and there is nothing wrong with that.


Anyone else pick up on Bird's somewhat weak denial of the JO rumors.

LOL, yeah, I'm glad someone asked him about it

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 01:20 AM
Great hire! And totally out of nowhere. No speculation at all from anyone on this guy..
Plus we are getting Mr. Harter to get the boys in line.

Let's bring back the D!

A+ on the first move of the offseason.Is anyone else not surprised by all the speculation being wrong? I mean the GS trade came out of nowhere. Fwiw, TPTB are pretty damn good at throwing off the media.

On a side note, despite being disappointed with this news, the hiring along with the JO trade talks has done wonders for the discussion on PD.

Edit: Cudos to the admins for getting us back on the real PD just in time!

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 01:20 AM
Hold on... you start by spewing out some negative stuff... before you even know what kind of coach he is :huh:. Isn't that kind of... premature?

For the record: this came totally out of nowhere, but I love this choice.

He worked in Boston and his players really liked him there and he got them going again after Pitino.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:Spewing out what negative stuff? We hired a defensive coach on a team where the players suck on defense. I dont got nothing against Jim O'Brien but this team didnt need a defensive coach.

pwee31
06-01-2007, 01:21 AM
I like when asked about his style how O"Brien said he's a disciplinarian, but NOT when it comes to tempo. If the team needs to run against the Suns they'll do so, but we'll also be able to slow it down with a team that walks it up.

And the TEAM being able to defend, with individuals being held accountable for there defense was also a plus!

indyman37
06-01-2007, 01:22 AM
Is anyone else not surprised by all the speculation being wrong? I mean the GS trade came out of nowhere. Fwiw, TPTB are pretty damn good at throwing off the media.

On a side note, despite being disappointed with this news, the hiring along with the JO trade talks has done wonders for the discussion on PD.

Edit: Cudos to the admins for getting us back on the real PD just in time!
Their trying to make up for the Al Harrington trade....

Major Cold
06-01-2007, 01:23 AM
When I heard this on the radio I was shocked. As I read and here his past I am beginning to understand why he was picked

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 01:25 AM
Great hire! And totally out of nowhere. No speculation at all from anyone on this guy..
Plus we are getting Mr. Harter to get the boys in line.

Let's bring back the D!

A+ on the first move of the offseason.
Who's Mr. Harter? :confused:

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 01:26 AM
I like when asked about his style how O"Brien said he's a disciplinarian, but NOT when it comes to tempo. If the team needs to run against the Suns they'll do so, but we'll also be able to slow it down with a team that walks it up.

And the TEAM being able to defend, with individuals being held accountable for there defense was also a plus!


:dance:

indyman37
06-01-2007, 01:27 AM
Who's Mr. Harter? :confused:
Dick Harter.

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/dick_harter/index.html

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width=70 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/dick_harter.jpg </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Dick Harter
College - Pennsylvania '53
Dick Harter, regarded as one of the top defensive minds in basketball, joined the Sixers coaching staff on May 5, 2004. Harter has enjoyed a long and successful history in the game, having worked for over 50 seasons as both a head coach and as an assistant under some of the game’s all-time greats.


Harter began his NBA coaching career under Chuck Daly with the Detroit Pistons (1983-86), as the club recorded three-consecutive winning seasons for the first time in franchise history. He left Detroit followint the 1985-86 season to serve as an assistant under Jack Ramsay at Indiana (1986-88). In 1988, he became the head coach of the Charlotte Hornets (1988-90) for Charlotte’s inaugural season.

Harter has also worked on the staffs of Pat Riley with the New York Knicks (1991-94), P.J. Carlesimo in Portland (1994-97), Larry Bird with the Indiana Pacers (1997-2000) and Jim O’Brien in Boston (2001-04).

While serving as an assistant for Bird in Indiana, the Pacers collected two Central Division titles and made one appearance in the NBA Finals. Bird credited Harter and his input as one of the reasons the team enjoyed so much success in that stretch, as well as a major factor in his winning the NBA’s Coach of the Year Award in 1998.

Harter boasts a collegiate head-coaching record of 295-196 (.601) mark having served as a head coach in the college ranks for 18 seasons. Harter’s first stint as a head coach came during the 1965-66 season when he served as the head coach at Rider University (N.J.) where he guided the Broncs to a 16-9 record. After one season at Rider, he returned to his alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, where he replaced Jack McCloskey as head coach of the Quakers. Harter led the Quakers to an 88-44 (.667) record from 1966-71, including back-to-back Ivy League Championships and NCAA Tournament appearances (1970, 1971). His greatest year came in 1970-71, when the Quakers finished the season 28-1, eventually losing to Villanova in the NCAA Tournament East Region Finals. That year, UPenn finished third in both the AP and UPI polls.

Following his stint with the Quakers, Harter served as the head coach at the University of Oregon, leading the Ducks to a 112-82 (.577) record over seven seasons (1971-78). His tenure at Oregon was highlighted by his “Kamikaze Kids” ending UCLA's 98-game home winning streak at Pauley Pavilion. He later served as head coach at Penn State (1978-83), compiling a 79-61 (.564) mark.

Harter is a member of the Big Five Hall of Fame. He is also a member of both the University of Pennsylvania Hall of Fame and the University of Oregon Hall of Fame. Most recently, he was inducted into the State of Pennsylvania Hall of Fame (Pottstown Chapter) in October 2002.

Much like O'Brien, Harter’s intense interest and knowledge of the game stems from his involvement in Philadelphia basketball. After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania (’53), Harter served for two years in the United States Marine Corp. as a first lieutenant and then coached for two years at the high school level. He accepted an assistant coaching position at his alma mater under McCloskey, where he remained for seven years (1958-65). Of all the great basketball minds he has worked with, it is McCloskey - who later engineered the great Pistons squads of the 1980s - who Harter calls “the greatest influence” on his basketball life.
Harter (10/14/30) and his wife, Mari, spend the off-season in Lake Willoughby, Vt.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 01:28 AM
I like when asked about his style how O"Brien said he's a disciplinarian, but NOT when it comes to tempo. If the team needs to run against the Suns they'll do so, but we'll also be able to slow it down with a team that walks it up.I dont agree with your intepretation of what he was saying, but if youre right then we will still be trying to match up to other teams instead of enforcing our own style of play on them, and I dont think that works. And anyone who trys to run with the Suns just gets slaughtered.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 01:28 AM
Spewing out what negative stuff? We hired a defensive coach on a team where the players suck on defense. I dont got nothing against Jim O'Brien but this team didnt need a defensive coach.

I think your thinking is completely backwards - doesn't it make more sense to hire a defensive coach when you have weak defenders - especially someone who coaches team defense.

Dick Harter is coming to town - that is great news - I honestly didn't think he would

FlavaDave
06-01-2007, 01:29 AM
Dick Harter?


That's what she said.

:rimshot:

PaceBalls
06-01-2007, 01:30 AM
Who's Mr. Harter? :confused:

good ol Dick. Was the pacers defensive coach when Bird was the coach back in the day. He is one of the best defensive coaches around.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 01:31 AM
I will add though that I did like the part where he said that, like Larry, he loves hardnosed basketball. If he manages to get these softies playing some hardnosed b-ball, my opinion of him will quickly improve.

pwee31
06-01-2007, 01:34 AM
I dont agree with your intepretation of what he was saying, but if youre right then we will still be trying to match up to other teams instead of enforcing our own style of play on them, and I dont think that works. And anyone who trys to run with the Suns just gets slaughtered.

Well that's what I took, sorry if I misunderstood, I thought I had paraphased what he said pretty well.

I don't think it's necessarily "matching up" with others. He believes that this team can be flexible and play multiple styles when needed

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 01:35 AM
Who's Mr. Harter? :confused:

He has been a long, long time assistant coach (he was The Hornets first ever head coach) But he was an assistant under Jack ramsey when he was the pacers coach and then he was an assistant under Bird when he was the pacers coach and the fact that Dick Harter was able to get that pacers team 1998-2000 to play good defense is all you really should need to hear. Look at the individual defenders, and they aren't any better than they are now.

Also the job Harter did as an assistant with the Celtics in was amazing - another great job of getting poor defenders to buy into team defense.

I also would recommend anyone who wants to know more about Harter to read larry Bird's book from 1999. "Bird Watching"

I think in 25 years if a book is written about great assistant coaches in the NBA, Dick Harter won't just be one of the alltime greats - the book will likely be named after him and if an award is ever given out for "assistant coach of the year" it will be named the Dick Harter award.

Harter is generally considered the best NBA assistant coach over the past 20 years

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 01:37 AM
He has been a long, long time assistant coach (he was The Hornets first ever head coach) But he was an assistant under Jack ramsey when he was the pacers coach and then he was an assistant under Bird when he was the pacers coach and the fact that Dick Harter was able to get that pacers team 1998-2000 to play good defense is all you really should need to hear. Look at the individual defenders, and they aren't any better than they are now.

Also the job Harter did as an assistant with the Celtics in was amazing - another great job of getting poor defenders to buy into team defense.

I also would recommend anyone who wants to know more about Harter to read larry Bird's book from 1999. "Bird Watching"

I think in 25 year if a book is written about great assistant coaches in the NBA Dick Harter won't just be one of the alltime greats - the book will likely be named after him and if an award is ever given out for "assistant coach of the year" it will be named the Dick Harter award.Why hasnt he ever been a head coach? Not trying to knock on him, I am honestly wondering why.

CableKC
06-01-2007, 01:38 AM
Dick Harter.

http://www.nba.com/coachfile/dick_harter/index.html

<TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 width=70 align=left><TBODY><TR><TD>http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/dick_harter.jpg </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Dick Harter
College - Pennsylvania '53
Dick Harter, regarded as one of the top defensive minds in basketball, joined the Sixers coaching staff on May 5, 2004. Harter has enjoyed a long and successful history in the game, having worked for over 50 seasons as both a head coach and as an assistant under some of the game’s all-time greats.


Harter began his NBA coaching career under Chuck Daly with the Detroit Pistons (1983-86), as the club recorded three-consecutive winning seasons for the first time in franchise history. He left Detroit followint the 1985-86 season to serve as an assistant under Jack Ramsay at Indiana (1986-88). In 1988, he became the head coach of the Charlotte Hornets (1988-90) for Charlotte’s inaugural season.

Harter has also worked on the staffs of Pat Riley with the New York Knicks (1991-94), P.J. Carlesimo in Portland (1994-97), Larry Bird with the Indiana Pacers (1997-2000) and Jim O’Brien in Boston (2001-04).

While serving as an assistant for Bird in Indiana, the Pacers collected two Central Division titles and made one appearance in the NBA Finals. Bird credited Harter and his input as one of the reasons the team enjoyed so much success in that stretch, as well as a major factor in his winning the NBA’s Coach of the Year Award in 1998.

Harter boasts a collegiate head-coaching record of 295-196 (.601) mark having served as a head coach in the college ranks for 18 seasons. Harter’s first stint as a head coach came during the 1965-66 season when he served as the head coach at Rider University (N.J.) where he guided the Broncs to a 16-9 record. After one season at Rider, he returned to his alma mater, the University of Pennsylvania, where he replaced Jack McCloskey as head coach of the Quakers. Harter led the Quakers to an 88-44 (.667) record from 1966-71, including back-to-back Ivy League Championships and NCAA Tournament appearances (1970, 1971). His greatest year came in 1970-71, when the Quakers finished the season 28-1, eventually losing to Villanova in the NCAA Tournament East Region Finals. That year, UPenn finished third in both the AP and UPI polls.

Following his stint with the Quakers, Harter served as the head coach at the University of Oregon, leading the Ducks to a 112-82 (.577) record over seven seasons (1971-78). His tenure at Oregon was highlighted by his “Kamikaze Kids” ending UCLA's 98-game home winning streak at Pauley Pavilion. He later served as head coach at Penn State (1978-83), compiling a 79-61 (.564) mark.

Harter is a member of the Big Five Hall of Fame. He is also a member of both the University of Pennsylvania Hall of Fame and the University of Oregon Hall of Fame. Most recently, he was inducted into the State of Pennsylvania Hall of Fame (Pottstown Chapter) in October 2002.

Much like O'Brien, Harter’s intense interest and knowledge of the game stems from his involvement in Philadelphia basketball. After graduating from the University of Pennsylvania (’53), Harter served for two years in the United States Marine Corp. as a first lieutenant and then coached for two years at the high school level. He accepted an assistant coaching position at his alma mater under McCloskey, where he remained for seven years (1958-65). Of all the great basketball minds he has worked with, it is McCloskey - who later engineered the great Pistons squads of the 1980s - who Harter calls “the greatest influence” on his basketball life.
Harter (10/14/30) and his wife, Mari, spend the off-season in Lake Willoughby, Vt.
Cool...at least we have a Defensive coach that can actually teach defense. Let's keep Person on as one of the shooting coaches....is he able to at least help out in that department?

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 01:38 AM
Spewing out what negative stuff? We hired a defensive coach on a team where the players suck on defense. I dont got nothing against Jim O'Brien but this team didnt need a defensive coach.

That's the first positive thing I've read concering O'Brien's expected hiring. But man! His name comes so far out of left field...

Strong on defense, tough on his players, had limited success getting the 76ers back to the post-season...they haven't been back since he was canned...

Only 2 head coaching jobs in the NBA. Why does this hiring plus the reported JO trade scare the :censored: outta me?

EDIT: I stand somewhat corrected. I'd forgotten that O'Brien had coached the Celtics to the ECF back in 2002. Maybe this guy isn't so bad after all despite having coached only 2 NBA teams. Seems he's had success in both endeavors.
Jermaniac,

You're comment above is a contradition. The Pacers DO need a defensive minded head coach very badly! The fact the O'Brien IS a defensive oriented is probably the only positive he has going for him thus far from my perspective. My initial concerns were O'Brien's limited coaching experience in the NBA, but upon further review, he has coached the Knicks, Celtics and had a brief stint w/the 76ers. (See this article for more on O'Brien's record (http://www.nba.com/coachfile/jim_obrien/index.html))

The initial shock is still there, but I'm starting to settle down a bit. Seeing the video press conference for myself will help to reassure me things are going in the right direction. But watching how the team performs during training camp and the first 20 games of the regular season thereafter I hope will take care of the rest of my jitters. I'm just not feeling this hiring all that much in light of the JO trade rumors.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 01:40 AM
Why hasnt he ever been a head coach? Not trying to knock on him, I am honestly wondering why.
Just a guess, but maybe he is absolutely terrible with offense...

Y2J
06-01-2007, 01:47 AM
Knowing Larry Bird, the only reason O'Brien was hired was to give Dick Harter a job.

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 01:48 AM
I dont care what Harter and Obie do, they are not going to make Murphy and Tinsley into good defenders. And if you think Tinsley is getting traded, please tell me who is going to take him?

indyman37
06-01-2007, 01:50 AM
And if you think Tinsley is getting traded, please tell me who is going to take him?
Vescey seems to think the Lakers will.

Naptown_Seth
06-01-2007, 01:50 AM
You want to run, they'll run. Grind it out, that's okay too.And he made this exact same comment in his presser.

I think people are underestimating some of the other options just as much as people are overreacting negatively to O'Brien. Again, he's hardly crap. I don't think he's as big a depature from Rick as most of you do though. Feed JO, get out of the way. That's what he's done previously.

As for "same vision" where Rick took it another way, WTF???? Larry tried to FORCE the team to be a running group, Rick was forced to try and make that work. Most of the players they had couldn't do it.

Ironically Jackson went to the running Warriors, but of those players he was BY FAR the slowest, least running guy on the court. He actually (and Al somewhat too) gave them some half court balance and defense. All the running was Barnes, Davis, Rich, Ellis, etc

The point being that clearly the Pacers did not actually assemble a team capable of running. Unless they alter the roster it won't fare any better now. Jim may realize that the ability to play either way is key, and he may be giving lip service to the idea that this CURRENT roster can do that, but I call BS. I don't think he truly sees that in this group.

So ultimately I don't think a single problem was about the COACH'S vision of the roster, it was about what the roster actually was.

Frankly my strong bet is that with Harter joining them (if that's the case) you are going to get a more extreme version of what you saw with Rick the last few years - clamp-down defense, low scoring games, iso offense.


And that makes me ask this - why are you happy about O'Brien but were sick of Rick again?


(I'm fine with JOB at this point, I just don't see it solving anything. You're in the honeymoon where it's all lip service, so of course it sounds good; so did running last summer)

diamonddave00
06-01-2007, 01:54 AM
To me the hiring of Jim O'Brien is a terrible move.

As Celtic coach he was critized for:
1. Playing favorites letting Walker and Pierce do as they pleased but coming down hard on the others.

2. Not playing young players - he was behind trading Joe Johnson to the Suns for vets Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers

His offense was chuck up 3's and isolate his stars Walker and Pierce.

To me this seems to point to Bird thinking this team is a playoff team and just needs a new coach. In many ways he's a slightly diff version of Carlisle. Unless O'Brien has changed and will play youth seems like a bad fit for a re-building team.

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 01:56 AM
To me the hiring of Jim O'Brien is a terrible move.

As Celtic coach he was critized for:
1. Playing favorites letting Walker and Pierce do as they pleased but coming down hard

2. Not playing young players - he was behind trading Joe Johnson to the Suns for vets Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers

His offense was chuck up 3's and isolate his stars Walker and Pierce.

To me this seems to point to Bird thinking this team is a playoff team and just needs a new coach. Unless O'Brien has changed and will play youth seems like a bad fit for a re-building team.There we go. The way UB and some of these guys where talking about this guy made him seem like a Red Auerbach type of coach and ****.

This is good news, 8 minutes per game for Ike and Shawne next year.

Like I said earlier we have hired Rick Carlisle with a bald spot.

- Doesnt like young players
- Treats his stars better then all his other players and lets them do as they please
- Defensive coach
- Likes to grind games out

YAY

Hicks
06-01-2007, 01:57 AM
WTHR had an interview with Jim a few minutes ago. I'll have it up on youtube within 30 minutes.

Alpolloloco
06-01-2007, 01:59 AM
I'm excited about this news, I think O'Brien (and Hart) will do a great job getting our team back on track!

Ok, we have a coach. What about our next move? Trade JO and Tinsley?

Hicks
06-01-2007, 02:01 AM
This is good news, 8 minutes per game for Ike and Shawne next year.

First of all, as soon as someone has something bad to say about him, you believe every word. Someone says something nice, you don't believe any of it.

Secondly, you were one who said Ike sucks anyway, so what do you care if he plays less?

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 02:04 AM
Vescey seems to think the Lakers will.

and if he keeps tossing stuff out there eventually something will be right

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 02:06 AM
First of all, as soon as someone has something bad to say about him, you believe every word. Someone says something nice, you don't believe any of it.

Secondly, you were one who said Ike sucks anyway, so what do you care if he plays less?Murphy sucks more. So I rather watch Ike at PF.

What something nice that he coaches his team to play good defense. This team cant play good defense. Rick was a good defensive coach and he couldnt get them to play good defense.

I cant wait to see someone get Tinsley,Murphy and Dunleavy to play good defense.

diamonddave00
06-01-2007, 02:08 AM
If you also remember back to when O'Brien coached at Boston a main reason he left was because Ainge wanted to go young -O'Brien had no desire to be part of rebuilding. Thats why this hiring to me shows Bird is not wanting to rebuild and go young but instead approaching it as this is a playoff team just needs tweaking.

I'd have preferred if JO is being traded to just rebuild and go with a young coach. But hey 8th seed is the playoffs appears to be the goal.

obnoxiousmodesty
06-01-2007, 02:09 AM
Have the terms of the contract been announced?

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 02:13 AM
If you also remember back to when O'Brien coached at Boston a main reason he left was because Ainge wanted to go young -O'Brien had no desire to be part of rebuilding. Thats why this hiring to me shows Bird is not wanting to rebuild and go young but instead approaching it as this is a playoff team just needs tweaking.

I'd have preferred if JO is being traded to just rebuild and go with a young coach. But hey 8th seed is the playoffs appears to be the goal.This just makes me sick. Wasnt there a big a spiel last summer about how they were no longer happy to just make the playoffs and wanted to do whatever it takes to be contenders? I guess that mindset didnt last long at all.

Doug
06-01-2007, 02:13 AM
I cant wait to see someone get Tinsley,Murphy and Dunleavy to play good defense.

A team with Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, and Rik Smits couldn't possibly play good defense either.

But they did.

A good defensive coach can do a whole lot to cover the weaknesses of multiple defenders. And Harter is a really, really good one.

No, he's not going to turn Murphy to a lock-down defender. Nobody is saying that.

Kstat
06-01-2007, 02:13 AM
Jim...O'Brien?

At least you won't have to worry about 3-point shooting anymore. Obie builds his offense around it.

Tinsley jacking up 8 threes a game is going to be interesting to watch.

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 02:13 AM
If you also remember back to when O'Brien coached at Boston a main reason he left was because Ainge wanted to go young -O'Brien had no desire to be part of rebuilding. Thats why this hiring to me shows Bird is not wanting to rebuild and go young but instead approaching it as this is a playoff team just needs tweaking.

I'd have preferred if JO is being traded to just rebuild and go with a young coach. But hey 8th seed is the playoffs appears to be the goal.This is exactly like a Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh move. Just do a little something to make this team just good enough to sneak into the East playoffs and get beat. We have a horrible front office.

Kstat
06-01-2007, 02:16 AM
This seems like a screwy hire to me...

I'd rather have had Dirk Harter as my head coach, with Obie as an assistant coach instructing players where the three-point line was.

I have all the respect in the world for Harter. One of the top assistants in the game.

larry
06-01-2007, 02:18 AM
I REALLY WANTED TO GIVE A NEW GUY A FRESH START
WE HAVE RETREADED AN OLD COACH
B4 I JUDGE WHAT IS HIS OVERALL RECORD?
I THINK I WILL GO LOOK FOR A YEARLY BREAKDOWN
THIS ISNT WHAT I HAD IN MIND MAN

Hicks
06-01-2007, 02:18 AM
Here's the video I mentioned earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZ1m9Szkbc

Y2J
06-01-2007, 02:20 AM
Jim...O'Brien?

At least you won't have to worry about 3-point shooting anymore. Obie builds his offense around it.

Tinsley jacking up 8 threes a game is going to be interesting to watch.

Flip....Saunders?

At least you wont have to worry about losing to the Spurs in the Finals anymore.

;)

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 02:25 AM
Here's the video I mentioned earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZ1m9SzkbcSounds to me like he wasnt very confident in Jermaine coming back.

ABADays
06-01-2007, 02:26 AM
Hold on... you start by spewing out some negative stuff... before you even know what kind of coach he is :huh:. Isn't that kind of... premature?

For the record: this came totally out of nowhere, but I love this choice.

He worked in Boston and his players really liked him there and he got them going again after Pitino.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

There is nothing premature about Dick Harter!!!! Huh? Oh, you meant O'Brien - sorry!

Trader Joe
06-01-2007, 02:33 AM
Too lazy to read through all of this...Is Harter definetely going to be an assistant? Cause if so I can live with this hire.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 02:33 AM
Here's the video I mentioned earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZ1m9Szkbc
Big things I noticed during interview:

When asked about turning team around: "Well I'm hoping it doesn't take very long. Our intent is getting back into the playoffs next year. I think it has already started with the trade. I think getting Murphy, Dunleavy, those two guys, McLeod, and Ike, I think it's already started."
When asked about trading JO: "I would love to coach him. But Larry has said if he was ever going to trade Jermaine, he would make sure he got some quality players back."First off, I have the feeling that we acquired in the GS trade will be back on our roster next season. But I also got the feeling that there is definitely more than a 50% chance of Jermaine getting trade this offseason.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 02:34 AM
Here's the video I mentioned earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZ1m9Szkbc
He called him Eddie Murphy, our new coach is a tard.

Edit: Image added as appropriate :)
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5360/murphybk7.jpg

kidthecat
06-01-2007, 02:34 AM
My, the negativity.

This completely out of left field--and it shows that the management can still play its cards.

As for the coach himself, he is a bit unorthodox with his emphasis on shooting threes, but he'd probably be foolish to attempt that philosophy with this bunch. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember this identity applying to his tenure in Philly. A good choice, though. It will be interesting to see what he can do with JO.

OTD
06-01-2007, 02:35 AM
I see that Donnie has done a very job of training Larry. Look for the same surpraises about trades.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 02:36 AM
Why hasnt he ever been a head coach? Not trying to knock on him, I am honestly wondering why.

He was for the Charlotte Hornets in their first two or three years in the league. And I thought he did a good job, his teams always played extremely hard, but he didn't seem to like it. I think the self-induced pressure was too much for him (he also was a head coach in college for several years) Harter is an extremely intense individual who I think took losses really hard when he was coaching the Hornets. Plus he is now something like 72 years old

ABADays
06-01-2007, 02:36 AM
Have the terms of the contract been announced?

I wonder if he got Billy Donovan type money :lol2:

rel
06-01-2007, 02:38 AM
Here's the video I mentioned earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxZ1m9Szkbc

Apparently Eddie Murphy is our newest acquisition

if you listen to O'brien, he slips an "eddie" where a troy should be

EDIT...Mr. Thundermaker caught it before me

dipperdunk
06-01-2007, 02:40 AM
Hi guys, I just heard about Jim O'Brien. :D

Here is some info from his year in Philly.

He definitely got the team to overachieve he was fired because he had a different opinion than Billy King about Dalembert & Webber.

Iverson loved playing for him, he gives his stars freedom to freelance as long as they play hard for him. If the Pacers keep JO he will probably have a monster year.

Defensively his likes to front the post but he also likes to have help behind the man fronting the post which makes it difficult for post entry passes. The Sixers frustrated Shaq that season despite having weak defensive frontcourt players.

The downside to his defense by packing the lane the Sixers gave up a ton of three pointers when teams had good ball movement against them. The weak side baseline three is open all night with his defense but it is still a good defense because it forces teams to beat you from outside. The Sixers had trouble executing it consistently because Dalembert had a low basketball IQ and would miss rotations and Webber couldn't move.

Offensively, a lot of "freelancing" and three pointers. He loves to play uptempo and push the ball. If you like basic fundamental offensive basketball you'll probably pull your hair out with O'Brien's system because you'll see some sloppy execution on 3-2 fastbreaks etc.,, He is pretty much the exact opposite of Carlisle in terms of managing the offense.

I think he has a tendency to push the pace too much offensively for road games. I remember when the Sixers were playing at Phoenix it was their 3rd game in 4 nights on a west coast trip. They interviewed O'Brien before the game and he said he wanted to push the ball and play uptempo against them. I was thinking why would you want to play a fast tempo when your team is dead tired on the road against Phoenix? They ended up getting ran out of the gym so he is kind of stubborn in that regard.


He loves good athletes who can pressure the ball and get up the court. Granger should flourish in his system. I think he has a good eye for talent and setting his 8 man rotation. The 1st thing he did in Philly in training camp was send Glenn Robinson home and insert Iguodala into the starting lineup even though he was only a rookie.

Somebody mentioned him not playing youth in Boston. That wasn't a problem at all in Philly, like I said he started Iggy all 82 games as a rookie and he started Korver most of the games and he was only in his 2nd season.

He isn't an elite coach but he is decent. He got a raw deal in Philly. He had the team competitive against a very good Pistons team in the playoffs and Cheeks took over the same starting 5 and the team went in the tank.

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 02:40 AM
I'm sure Danny will enjoy Obie, no driving to the bucket. Just launch them up Danny.

btowncolt
06-01-2007, 02:43 AM
Dipper! Good to see you. Hope life is going well.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 02:46 AM
To me the hiring of Jim O'Brien is a terrible move.

As Celtic coach he was critized for:
1. Playing favorites letting Walker and Pierce do as they pleased but coming down hard on the others.

2. Not playing young players - he was behind trading Joe Johnson to the Suns for vets Tony Delk and Rodney Rogers

His offense was chuck up 3's and isolate his stars Walker and Pierce.

To me this seems to point to Bird thinking this team is a playoff team and just needs a new coach. In many ways he's a slightly diff version of Carlisle. Unless O'Brien has changed and will play youth seems like a bad fit for a re-building team.

You make some very good points that I agree with, however, I really disagree with a couple of your points.

O'Brien did not let Pierce and Walker do whatever they wanted - they played as good of defense as they were capable of, O'Brien insisted on that and as long as they did that they were given a lot of freedom offensively.

He does play vets, he does rely on his star players and he will play his stars a lot of minutes. He doesn't have a "regular substitution pattern" though and yes he does favor the starters.

v_d_g
06-01-2007, 02:48 AM
You've got to be kidding me. We get the chance at some young, potential-ridden coaches who respond well to the modern NBA dynamic and we choose Jim O'Brien?

This franchise is going down the ****ing drain.

While the rest of the league is looking for athletic players that can shoot in order to play the exciting style of NBA bball

INdiana is targeting plodders who can't shoot so they can play BIG TEN BBALL

Who cares if JO is a good defensive coach and a disciplinarian. This isn't the BIG TEN.

PUt a competitive team on the floor and someone who can coach up tempo ball.

Bird really needs to leave.

Jermaniac
06-01-2007, 02:48 AM
You make some very good points that I agree with, however, I really disagree with a couple of your points.

O'Brien did not let Pierce and Walker do whatever they wanted - they played as good of defense as they were capable of, O'Brien insisted on that and as long as they did that they were given a lot of freedom offensively.

He does play vets, he does rely on his star players and he will play his stars a lot of minutes. He doesn't have a "regular substitution pattern" though and yes he does favor the starters.What if we trade JO and have no stars?

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 02:49 AM
Hi guys, I just heard about Jim O'Brien. :D

Here is some info from his year in Philly.

He definitely got the team to overachieve he was fired because he had a different opinion than Billy King about Dalembert & Webber.

Iverson loved playing for him, he gives his stars freedom to freelance as long as they play hard for him. If the Pacers keep JO he will probably have a monster year.

Defensively his likes to front the post but he also likes to have help behind the man fronting the post which makes it difficult for post entry passes. The Sixers frustrated Shaq that season despite having weak defensive frontcourt players.

The downside to his defense by packing the lane the Sixers gave up a ton of three pointers when teams had good ball movement against them. The weak side baseline three is open all night with his defense but it is still a good defense because it forces teams to beat you from outside. The Sixers had trouble executing it consistently because Dalembert had a low basketball IQ and would miss rotations and Webber couldn't move.

Offensively, a lot of "freelancing" and three pointers. He loves to play uptempo and push the ball. If you like basic fundamental offensive basketball you'll probably pull your hair out with O'Brien's system because you'll see some sloppy execution on 3-2 fastbreaks etc.,, He is pretty much the exact opposite of Carlisle in terms of managing the offense.

I think he has a tendency to push the pace too much offensively for road games. I remember when the Sixers were playing at Phoenix it was their 3rd game in 4 nights on a west coast trip. They interviewed O'Brien before the game and he said he wanted to push the ball and play uptempo against them. I was thinking why would you want to play a fast tempo when your team is dead tired on the road against Phoenix? They ended up getting ran out of the gym so he is kind of stubborn in that regard.


He loves good athletes who can pressure the ball and get up the court. Granger should flourish in his system. I think he has a good eye for talent and setting his 8 man rotation. The 1st thing he did in Philly in training camp was send Glenn Robinson home and insert Iguodala into the starting lineup even though he was only a rookie.

Somebody mentioned him not playing youth in Boston. That wasn't a problem at all in Philly, like I said he started Iggy all 82 games as a rookie and he started Korver most of the games and he was only in his 2nd season.

He isn't an elite coach but he is decent. He got a raw deal in Philly. He had the team competitive against a very good Pistons team in the playoffs and Cheeks took over the same starting 5 and the team went in the tank.


As always Dipper - a great post. This post is required reading.

And the part I highlighted should be all you need to know about O'Brien - that alone should be enough to sell him to Pacers fans

Y2J
06-01-2007, 02:51 AM
I'm sure Danny will enjoy Obie, no driving to the bucket. Just launch them up Danny.

Hey, it worked for the Warriors against the Mavs. And Danny's a far better 3-point shooter than either of the Warriors biggest gunslingers (Wacko Jacko and B. Diddy), so why not?

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 02:52 AM
What if we trade JO and have no stars?

every team has players better than others, so whoever is the Pacers best players will flourish under Jim O

DisplacedKnick
06-01-2007, 02:53 AM
When I heard O'Brien was hired my response was, "Meh."

Not the best, not the worst.

After I heard he'll likely be bringing Harter with him my response now is, "Congratulations Pacers fans."

The guy knows how to get his teams to play hard and with Harter the defense is gonna be sound. Best move the front office has made in 3 years.

pwee31
06-01-2007, 02:53 AM
While the rest of the league is looking for athletic players that can shoot in order to play the exciting style of NBA bball

INdiana is targeting plodders who can't shoot so they can play BIG TEN BBALL

Who cares if JO is a good defensive coach and a disciplinarian. This isn't the BIG TEN.

PUt a competitive team on the floor and someone who can coach up tempo ball.

Bird really needs to leave.

I can't wait to see the uptempo NBA Finals we're in store for!

RamBo_Lamar
06-01-2007, 02:54 AM
He (J. O'Brien) has always struck me as being a driven hard-working coach
who has a more "professional" mannerism about him than many other NBA
coaches.

In spite of the Pacer's recent history of bungling, I will refrain from chiming in
with any "Mehs" until seeing what the guy can do with the hand he's being
dealt.

He's not some naive dummy, and knows exactly what kind of mess he's
stepping into here. Let's see how much of a positive impact he can make.

owl
06-01-2007, 03:00 AM
When I heard O'Brien was hired my response was, "Meh."

Not the best, not the worst.

After I heard he'll likely be bringing Harter with him my response now is, "Congratulations Pacers fans."

The guy knows how to get his teams to play hard and with Harter the defense is gonna be sound. Best move the front office has made in 3 years.


I like the O'Brien hiring. I was impressed with his previous work in Boston and Philly. His teams always seemed to give effort and performed well.
If the Harter rumour is true then that makes a great hiring. Everyone else out there was unproven other than Stan.

Hicks
06-01-2007, 03:12 AM
Thank you for the report, dipperdunk. You just gave my optimism more fuel.

madison
06-01-2007, 03:14 AM
OK, so TPTB have made one of the key post-season decisions. I'm honestly not informed about O'Brian so I can't say if he's the 'best available' coach. However, I can easily say that this is what I want from him: 1) treat everyone on the team with respect - no favorites, 2) make sure that playing time minutes are earned such that even the players with low salaries have a chance to contribute if they've got the mustard, 3) emphasize tough, physical defense to the point that other teams do not like to play against us, 4) apply an offensive strategy that ensures players move without the ball and give the ball up to the open man (I'm sick of giving the ball to the the 'star player' and then seeing a bunch of professionals stand around and watch the 'star' get double-teamed, and 5) make sure that the team on the floor at the end of the 4th Q are the guys that brung-ya there that night and are NOT the guys who had good stats in previous games. And, one more suggestion: work their butts so hard in training camp that all that the team wants to do is to go to bed at 8.30 PM.

Fast Eddie
06-01-2007, 03:16 AM
I also like the hire. Harter will put this as a great hire. With the Pacer team that reached the finals it was Rick calling the O and Harter calling the D. Bird was just the frontman. After hearing O'Brien I feel time will tell. I'll give him a chance, who else was really available at the time that fits this team/management. Eddie Murphy??? Funny he must have Shrek on his mind.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
06-01-2007, 03:17 AM
I have a feeling that my boy Ike is gonna get buried on the bench, he doesnt seem like O'Brien's type of player. Maybe Ike deserves it, but still, I was hoping to see him get the chance to develop. This will pretty much kill any thought of us winning the GS trade.

CableKC
06-01-2007, 03:26 AM
I have a feeling that my boy Ike is gonna get buried on the bench, he doesnt seem like O'Brien's type of player. Maybe Ike deserves it, but still, I was hoping to see him get the chance to develop. This will pretty much kill any thought of us winning the GS trade.
I guess the question is whether he will bench players for not playing decent defense...or bench players who work hard. I don't know if Ike works hard or not ( I hope he does )....but I do know that his defense isn't that great.

But honestly....if JONeal is gone.....and Defense determines who plays and who doesn't....with a PF rotation consisting of Murphy or Ike.....Foster will end up as our starting PF.

I just hope that Ike shows that he's a hard worker and listens to what O'Brien says.

Alpolloloco
06-01-2007, 03:43 AM
So I guess if Tinsley isn't getting dealt he can stay at home too (like Robinson) and we acquire Snap as our PG, who can really shoot from distance.

Naptown_Seth
06-01-2007, 03:56 AM
So I guess if Tinsley isn't getting dealt he can stay at home too (like Robinson) and we acquire Snap as our PG, who can really shoot from distance.
Snap. Snap Hunter?

Because you did just read the part about DEFENSE right?


A team with Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, and Rik Smits couldn't possibly play good defense either.

But they did.

A good defensive coach can do a whole lot to cover the weaknesses of multiple defenders. And Harter is a really, really good one.

No, he's not going to turn Murphy to a lock-down defender. Nobody is saying that.
They did? Have you looked at the 2000 Finals team's PPG ALLOWED recently? They were middle of the pack; same with FG% allowed. They just flat-out out-shot everyone they met, not unlike what Jerm was talking about elsewhere.

In fact they had the HIGHEST Effective Offense (basketball database adjusted scoring rate) in 2000, and were 3rd in PPG outright. Let's also remember that the team had Dale Davis, McKey (less critical in 2000, but still) and even Rose at times. The only defensive strength (meaning better than slightly below averge) was 3P% allowed, which they were 2nd in the NBA behind the Lakers.

So let's not pretend that somehow Brown or Bird made slower guys like Mullin and Jackson into these defensive studs. Those guys played because their offense was so freaking lethal it didn't matter. As a team the 2000 Pacers shot the THREE at a 39.6% rate!!! (#1 in the NBA that year) Do the current Pacers have ANYONE that can drop it that well, let alone for a TEAM average?

That's why the concerns over defense are out there. Dunleavy getting beat off the dribble AND shooting 28% from 3 is not about to be confused with Reggie, Mullin, Jax or anyone else from that era.

Kstat
06-01-2007, 04:09 AM
Obie used the "mirage" defense a lot in Boston. More or less a box and 1 defense, but with a couple twists. It was actually effective, unless you met a team that could post up on you.

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 04:09 AM
I guess the question is whether he will bench players for not playing decent defense...or bench players who work hard. I don't know if Ike works hard or not ( I hope he does )....but I do know that his defense isn't that great.

But honestly....if JONeal is gone.....and Defense determines who plays and who doesn't....with a PF rotation consisting of Murphy or Ike.....Foster will end up as our starting PF.

I just hope that Ike shows that he's a hard worker and listens to what O'Brien says.

You forgot about Baston

CableKC
06-01-2007, 04:11 AM
You forgot about Baston
Not that I don't like Baston...I really like him as a player....but I would have concerns if he played ahead of Ike in the Big Man rotation.....and won't complain as much if he shared minutes with Murphy.

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 04:31 AM
I honestly hope Baston starts over Murphy next year. Tht's if Jermaine is gone. If JO is gone I would't mind seein Baston and Ike getting a lot of minutes. Foster will get his regardless so I'm nt worried about him

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 05:00 AM
No I was referring to Kegboy about if this doesn't pan out, then it should be Larry's head.

It's just another example of how Larry's "moves" are stupid, while Donnie gets the credit for good ones.

Isn't Larry in charge? Hello, who was at the press conference? Who was at the press conference when Rick was "reassigned"? Larry's the face of the franchise. Don't use Donnie as an excuse if Larry ****s up for the 97th time. I'm so sick of people saying, "Give Larry a chance". He's been here 4 years, and it's been a ****ing train wreck since the word go. It's about damn time he be held accountable.

And for the record, Donnie gets no credit from me. I couldn't tell you the last good move we made, let alone who should get the credit.

Shade
06-01-2007, 05:10 AM
The downward spiral continues.

EDIT: If he is actually bringing Harter in with him, I feel better about it.

Kegboy
06-01-2007, 05:16 AM
The downward spiral continues.

EDIT: If he is actually bringing Harter in with him, I feel better about it.

Yeah, after reading through everything I missed, everybody says it's a great hire because of Harter. I sure hope Dick's given an indication that he wants to come back. I swear I saw something after Philly where he indicated he was done.

Unclebuck
06-01-2007, 05:36 AM
From watching the press conference it is rather clear to me that Dick Harter is coming with O'Brien. I wouldn't be shocked if he only stays for a year or maybe two

Oneal07
06-01-2007, 05:44 AM
LOL. . .Reggie Miller doesn't like the idea of O'Brien Coaching the Pacers

Hicks
06-01-2007, 05:54 AM
The downward spiral continues.

EDIT: If he is actually bringing Harter in with him, I feel better about it.

I think this is what UB was referring to in his sound-off post on PD3. It's not because it's "we're doomed!" it's because it's "we're doomed!" with no explanations, thoughts, or ideas on what would be better. Sorry to pick on you Shade, it's obviously not just you, but I knew you could take it. :box:

Arcadian
06-01-2007, 06:10 AM
Honestly with the mood here is there any hiring we could make and people would cry about it.

O'brien's solid. It's not a bad move.

Doug
06-01-2007, 06:11 AM
They did?

So let's not pretend that somehow Brown or Bird made slower guys like Mullin and Jackson into these defensive studs.

That's not what I'm saying AT ALL. I specifically said something about not suddenly turning poor individual defenders into great ones.


With Jackson, Miller, and Smits, none of who were known as even average defenders at the time, we shouldn't have been "middle of the pack", but down in the "can't stop ANYBODY" range.


My point with that comparison - and I think we agree on this - is that a good defensive scheme can minimize multiple defensive liabilities.


We seem to have been very hesitant and confused on defense the past couple years - slow, tentative rotations, not knowing when to help or who to double, etc. I'm somewhat optimistic that a really good defensive coach - Harter qualifies - will take care of that problem.


My other point to the other poster was basically just because we have a Murphy or a Dunleavy or a Tinsley we shouldn't immediately throw in the towel on playing defense and just hope we can outscore everybody.

Los Angeles
06-01-2007, 06:17 AM
One thing everyone must admit. Jim O'Brien was able to get the most out of Walker - no other coach has been able to get half of what O"Brien got out of him.

The other thing I really rememeber about Jim, is he tailors his offense around the star players, he tailors his system around the star players - and he gives them a lot of freedom to play on the offensive end as long as they play defense.

He doesn't try to plug players into his offensive system, he builds the offensive system around his players. ------- you all should like that right?

I have been reading your posts for years, UB, and I swear that is the first time I've ever seen you use a question mark.

madison
06-01-2007, 06:36 AM
I, for one, am not the least bit thrilled by a coach who tailors his offense so that the highest paid (star - ?) players do all of the shooting. That's what has been wrong with the Pacers for the entire Rick C era. The best teams get everyone involved in the offense, not just one or two 'options'. Am I the only NBA fan left that believes in 'team' ball? Look at the Pistons, folks. Everyone contributes. Look at San Antonio. Again, everyone contributes. UB, you're off base on this one.

Dr. Goldfoot
06-01-2007, 06:56 AM
I think O'Brien's former teams roster's dictated the offense defer to them. We are talking about teams consisting of Paul Pierce and Allen Iverson. He did get his teams to win games as a head coach so it's not like he's some bum off the streets. This situation won't be new to him. He's dealt with prima donnas, bumbling management, teams in need of a face lift, unbalanced rosters and troubled players before.
With Dick Harter on board, it feels like Larry is managing this team much like he coached. Turn to Rick then to Dick who's next if Jim/Dick don't work out? Gar Heard?
When they brought Rick on board originally, I never got behind him. I always thought Mike Brown should have been named coach. This time around, I'll give the guy a chance before I start ripping him.

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 07:18 AM
i just hope that we bring in a coach that excels with developing young bigs. who is out there who might fit that role?

hakeem? probably won't want to be a coach
ewing? not sure what he's doing anymore
anyone with toronto or orlando available? thinking bosh, howard, darko have developed fairly well.

any other thoughts?

SoupIsGood
06-01-2007, 08:14 AM
When I heard O'Brien was hired my response was, "Meh."

Not the best, not the worst.

After I heard he'll likely be bringing Harter with him my response now is, "Congratulations Pacers fans."

The guy knows how to get his teams to play hard and with Harter the defense is gonna be sound. Best move the front office has made in 3 years.

Wow, this was my exact reaction. I def agree.

Young
06-01-2007, 08:48 AM
I don't know what to think right now.

A part of me is so ****ed off.

I just can't stop comparing Rick Carlise and Jim O'Brien and because of that I keep wondering what in gods name Larry and Donnie are thinking. They really think that JO is a better coach?

From what I remember of JO with the Celtics, they had a good run to the Eastern Finals and I enjoyed watching them. But all they did was chuck three pointers.

I will give him a pass on being fired in Philadelphia after one season I think it was. The rate of which NBA coaches are fired (and GMs are not) is just sad. Coaches get all the blame even though they don't put together some of these **** teams that they get to coach.

If JO can come in here, bring a different offenseive style than Carlise, I love the Triangle (that won't happen) and the Princeton (this could happen, that is whay I wanted Rick Adelman so bad) then I will be happy with something like that.

JO also needs to develope young guys. That is probably the most important thing.

So there are some question marks I have but overall I just want to scream and yell because a part of me is so ****ed off right now. RC was in a bad situation here and I think highly of the job he did, I think highly of RC in general. While I have thought we need to make a change I have also wondered if that change should be in the front office. But anyways I just think there were better canidates out there. We were not going to land a better coach than RC and I just love what I have read about Brian Shaw. He would have been my ideal choice.

Jim O'Brien isn't a bad coach. But he sure ain't the coach I wanted from what I know about him. I just hope it works out.

Young
06-01-2007, 09:17 AM
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=667597&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

What great things these Celtic fans have to say about JO! Not!

Trader Joe
06-01-2007, 09:22 AM
LOL. . .Reggie Miller doesn't like the idea of O'Brien Coaching the Pacers

No offense to Reggie, but I cannot remember the last positive thing he said about the organization as a reporter. I know it is his decision, but from what I have seen Reggie was a great basketball player and competitor. He is far from a great basketball mind.

Young
06-01-2007, 09:25 AM
No offense to Reggie, but I cannot remember the last positive thing he said about the organization as a reporter. I know it is his decision, but from what I have seen Reggie was a great basketball player and competitor. He is far from a great basketball mind.

What is there so positive to talk about though? Just because he doesn't see anything positive with the Pacers doesn't mean that he is far from a great basketball mind.

And I love how JO and LB are on the same page. It's good that they will get along great, it's not good to be on the same page as LB. But yahoo for it anyways.

Trader Joe
06-01-2007, 09:27 AM
What is there so positive to talk about though? Just because he doesn't see anything positive with the Pacers doesn't mean that he is far from a great basketball mind.

And I love how JO and LB are on the same page. It's good that they will get along great, it's not good to be on the same page as LB. But yahoo for it anyways.

Hes complaining on national TV cause the Pacers didn't call his friend about the coaching job. You know his friend that...
A.) Has zero coaching experience of any way, shape or form
and
B.) Said he didn't want to coach here

I stick by my statement. IMO Reggie sucks as a commentator.

Skaut_Ech
06-01-2007, 09:44 AM
http://www.appetites.us/1animalhouse508.jpeg

I was gonna put a caption on this, but those of you old enough to remember this gem (and those of you youngsters with them new-fangled Dee-Vee Aruh players may recognize this scene) need no caption.

Okay, I'm basking in the sunshine, right? So, looks like Dick Vesace has found a new home. DoH!! Okay, I will say, that DK has a strong point about Harter.

Uh, yeah, I'll console myself with that thought.

Still basking in the sunshine. Still basking in the sunshine....

Young
06-01-2007, 09:53 AM
There is a lot of things that could have gone on to make Reggie say what he said. IDK and I don't really care. Either way that don't make him a bad commentator in my eyes, JMO though no need to discuss it more.

Anyways I just watched the press conference, here is something I am hung up on.

From what I get JO is flexible. He will demand defense but on offense he is flexible.

That is good about the defense but is that good about the offense? Is it better in the long run to say this is what we are going to run night in and night out year in and year out?

Another thing is that JO believes in is balance. Adjusting to the other team you are playing. Is this good or bad?

We say two examples of this in this years playoffs, one team lost and the other won.

The Mavs against the Warriors. I would say that the Mavs are flexible and the Warriors are not, they are run and gun. The Warriors won though.

The other example is the Spurs and Suns. The Spurs are flexible IMO but the Suns are not, they are run and gun. The Spurs won though.

So which one is it? I just can't figure if this is a good thing or bad thing, I guess it just depends on what you perfere.

One thing I forgot to say is that I am happy to be getting a quality assistant in Dick Harter. That is something I have complained about a lot about last years staff.

Hopefully Dick Harter, maybe this Lester Conner, I would like to keep Chuck Person, and then another one or two maybe?

A thread on 76er fans thoughts on OB.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=667593

Not as many bad things. Actually mostly positive.

Ransom
06-01-2007, 10:11 AM
Didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this is redundant:

Didn't we play O'Brien's Celtics three playoffs in a row?

I remember playing them, and thinking they had two players (Pierce and Walker) who could crack our rotation, and that their offense was rather dumb looking just shooting threes but given their options it wasn't that bad. And they beat us, leading to I. Thomas' firing.

Hmm, my initial impression is positive, it's just so unexpected that I'm taken aback. But isnt' that what this team does most of the times? Make the move that nobod expects?

FlavaDave
06-01-2007, 10:25 AM
I have been reading your posts for years, UB, and I swear that is the first time I've ever seen you use a question mark.



Haha, I noticed that too.

carpediem024
06-01-2007, 10:56 AM
Ewww. Why O'Brien? His style of plays is not that good....

BillS
06-01-2007, 11:24 AM
Weighing in after reading a lot of opinion (including :kravitz:)...

I think this is a pretty good move for the Pacers. It isn't an earth-shattering, headline-grabbing, major massive coup - but anyone who expected that given this roster and team situation was delusional.

In O'Brien we have a solid mid-level NBA head coach with experience and an ability to get along with players. We get an extremely high-quality assistant in Harter.

Unlike many, I do not in any way see this as hiring a Carlisle clone. Most of the discussion seems to be turning toward faulting O'Brien on having too open and perimeter-oriented an offense - something Carlisle could never be accused of. Insofar as stating a preference to run the offense through the stars on the team - well, duuuuuuh. There's a reason these guys are stars, and using them only makes sense. Where team ball comes into play is NOT running the offense through less skilled players just to keep it even, it is in being able to use other players effectively to keep more than just your star as a scoring threat. This is the challenge our players and Carlisle's system were never up to.

Which leads me to my main concern. If everything works out, a quick-scoring perimeter offense sets up the ability to quickly get the ball into the paint for the easy baskets. Unfortunately, there is no one on this team I feel confident enough in to be willing to trust with this kind of offense. I would expect it to be "one and done", with chances for offensive rebounds reduced from even the current paltry level.

What I <i>do</i> like is that O'Brien has set very specific criteria for how he will decide whether or not to call plays - the "3-second rule". This really puts the ability to have an open offense on the shoulders of the backcourt, which is where it should be (since they are usually the players complaining about being stifled). If they can't get the ball downcourt quickly, they will be given plays to run.

Given this, I expect to see more turnovers, but with an improved team defense we should be able to get stops and reduce the points scored off those turnovers. A lot will be riding on Harter's shoulders and, given the current roster, the outcome of the season may depend almost entirely on his ability to correct our recent defensive problems.

Bottom line for me is that I don't know if we'll be better - that depends a lot on personnel and right now we just haven't got the guys - but we should be less predictable and more interesting to watch, especially for those of us who like to watch real defense rather than games of H-O-R-S-E.

ABADays
06-01-2007, 11:32 AM
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=667597&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

What great things these Celtic fans have to say about JO! Not!

I have to admit bringing Harter in as part of the package makes this more appealing.

I did read on the thread you posted someone mentioning Walker coming to the Pacers. UH - not! If they pulled something like that it would negate any positive aspect of this hiring.

Shade
06-01-2007, 12:54 PM
I will say one thing:

I had better never, never, NEVER see Fatoine in a Pacers uniform.

NEVER.

avoidingtheclowns
06-01-2007, 03:44 PM
There is a lot of things that could have gone on to make Reggie say what he said. IDK and I don't really care. Either way that don't make him a bad commentator in my eyes, JMO though no need to discuss it more.

Anyways I just watched the press conference, here is something I am hung up on.

From what I get JO is flexible. He will demand defense but on offense he is flexible.

That is good about the defense but is that good about the offense? Is it better in the long run to say this is what we are going to run night in and night out year in and year out?

Another thing is that JO believes in is balance. Adjusting to the other team you are playing. Is this good or bad?

We say two examples of this in this years playoffs, one team lost and the other won.

The Mavs against the Warriors. I would say that the Mavs are flexible and the Warriors are not, they are run and gun. The Warriors won though.

The other example is the Spurs and Suns. The Spurs are flexible IMO but the Suns are not, they are run and gun. The Spurs won though.

So which one is it? I just can't figure if this is a good thing or bad thing, I guess it just depends on what you perfere.

One thing I forgot to say is that I am happy to be getting a quality assistant in Dick Harter. That is something I have complained about a lot about last years staff.

Hopefully Dick Harter, maybe this Lester Conner, I would like to keep Chuck Person, and then another one or two maybe?

A thread on 76er fans thoughts on OB.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=667593

Not as many bad things. Actually mostly positive.


i don't think flexibility is bad for an offense. i do think that if you're going to be flexible you have to be able to do both well and not both halfassed. i look at dallas as semi-flexible. because they can kind of run but they didn't have the defensive weapons to both run AND stop baron davis. utah had deron williams and derek fisher compared to devin harris and jason terry. dirk wasn't nearly as aggressive as he should have been in general and the big dallas problem is they don't have a scorer in the post (much like chicago) that could effectively break down the pressure on dirk and other outside shooting guys. this is why boozer was so effective and why AK47 suddenly sprang to life as he excels in uptempo pace where he can roam for blocks and steals and start fast breaks. dallas hasn't been built with the same weapons.

i think to a certain extent phoenix demonstrated more offensive flexibility against the spurs in the playoffs. they made stops during games i didn't necessarily believe they could and played the spurs style of game. i don't know if you can really use the phoenix series as an example because it is easily debated that the suns didn't lose the series all on their own.

Brian
07-02-2010, 07:27 PM
Its just funny looking back on all of this...people were mad then and people are mad now.

jhondog28
07-02-2010, 07:38 PM
I was hoping we hired Jim O Brien who owns the dry cleaning business next door to my house...he actually knows a thing about basketball, but alas you just bumped the thread

Tom White
07-02-2010, 07:58 PM
I don't really remember much about O'Brien, so I'm not as enthused at this point as Buck is.

I will, however, say this. If Iverson did not like him, and ajbry does not like him, then I'll probably wind up being very much in favor of this hire.

Man! When I'm wrong, I'm really wrong!

Slick Pinkham
07-02-2010, 08:29 PM
ah... the memories. Dipperdunk's last post, rampant pessimism among most. I was grateful to see that I did not compliment the hire.

Bball
07-02-2010, 08:52 PM
Wow.... Unclebuck has always been a Jim O'Brien fan. I would never had thought that. I thought he just took pity on him to defend him in the face of a the recent crush of criticism... not that he actually was a fan (considering the over emphasis on 3's, the gimmick offense leading to poor defense, the over-reliance on offense over defense....) from the start.

Well... this was a good read. It looks to me like the people who had legitimate and articulated concerns about O'Brien were 100% right and their concerns came to fruition. He's been 'on the clock' for them since game 1. It's no wonder he'll have the boo-birds out loud this season.