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Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 03:41 AM
Peter was just on NBATV and said that Phil Jackson told Kobe that the Lakers will be acquring JO and that is why Kobe has backed off his trade demand as of late today.

Andre Aldridge asked Vescy if he was speculating - and Vescey there is no specualtion involved here.


Sorry for another JO to Lakers thread, but I thought this was NEWS and thought it deserved its own thread.

Edit: I missed the part where Vescey said what the pacers would get in return. But thanks to Dukins, here is what Vescey said
Bynum, Odom, filler + Laker's 1st rounder for JO and Tinsley".

Young
05-31-2007, 03:43 AM
What.

Gosh, I was really getting my hopes up for Gerald Green and Mike Conley!!!!!!

But hey, if we get Bynum and stuff that's alright. The Lakers were my second choice.

I just hope we can dump a bad contract on the Lakers.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 03:46 AM
I was really taken aback at how matter-of-fact Vescey was about this.

Shade
05-31-2007, 03:49 AM
Ugh.

We suck.

Young
05-31-2007, 03:50 AM
It could always fall through or be BS because PJ could just be telling Kobe that to calm him down right now but it has been widely talked about that PV knows his Pacer stuff. It would make sense.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 03:50 AM
YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. JO and Kobe once before I die.

Anthem
05-31-2007, 03:50 AM
I was really taken aback at how matter-of-fact Vescey was about this.
That's how he was with the Thomas hiring as well.

It made too much sense not to happen... I just hope we get a good deal. Kobe's whining has put the Lakers in a terrible bargaining position, as long as we take advantage I'm happy.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 03:51 AM
It could always fall through or be BS because PJ could just be telling Kobe that to calm him down right now but it has been widely talked about that PV knows his Pacer stuff. It would make sense.I dont think they would lie to Kobe, cause if they lied to him and did nothing again that would just **** him off more.

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 03:55 AM
UGH.

Man.

:(

Lord Helmet
05-31-2007, 03:59 AM
Make sure to get screwed on this one, too, TPTB.

Lord Helmet
05-31-2007, 03:59 AM
UGH.

Man.

:(
Hey, remember, it's OK, we're pleasing the Lakers, not ourselves! :dance:

Well, at least to me, because I really would like JO to stay.....

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 04:00 AM
Well no matter who we get back, we lost the best player in the deal. That just blows!

Man we gave up on JO too soon... or maybe not, I dunno really... I just wanted him to stay. Hoping this isn't true.

Young
05-31-2007, 04:01 AM
Make sure to get screwed on this one, too, TPTB.

That will be hard because pretty much all of the Laker's contract are better than ours. Even Vladimir's, he makes like 6 million a year compared to Murphy making 8.

Of course Bird would be the one to do it. No doubt about that. He probably won't get Bynum. We will end up with Odom, Brown, and the 19th pick. Maybe Ronny Turiaf too if we are lucky.

btowncolt
05-31-2007, 04:02 AM
Gosh, I hope we can make the playoffs without JO!

Lord Helmet
05-31-2007, 04:02 AM
That will be hard because pretty much all of the Laker's contract are better than ours. Even Vladimir's, he makes like 6 million a year compared to Murphy making 8.

Of course Bird would be the one to do it. No doubt about that. He probably won't get Bynum. We will end up with Odom, Brown, and the 19th pick. Maybe Ronny Turiaf too if we are lucky.
No Bynum, no deal, damnit.

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 04:03 AM
If we don't get Bynum I'm poopin in Bird's coffee.

Young
05-31-2007, 04:06 AM
No Bynum, no deal, damnit.

I hope you are right.

Shade
05-31-2007, 04:08 AM
We're gonna end up with the overrated Bynum, a broken-down Odom, and filler. We probably won't even get a draft pick out of it.

Los Angeles
05-31-2007, 04:08 AM
For crying out loud I ****ing hate the **** licking Lakers with all my heart and soul.

NorCal_Pacerfan
05-31-2007, 04:09 AM
Puke Hurl Puke Hurl. I just lost my appetite. This is absolutely horrible. One of my favorites going to play with my least favorite player in all of professional sports on one of my least favorite teams. If this pans out to be true - all I can say is farewell and good luck to you JO, but I won't be rooting for you as long as your a *gasp* Laker. Sigh. Maybe they'll take Tinsley and Dun or Murph.

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 04:09 AM
If we get Bynum, Brown a pick and filler, I'm good with that. If Odom is the centerpiece and we do not get Bynum, I will be screeching for change in the front office. We need Farmar, Bynum and the pick for a rebuild.

Let's go Pacers!

Hopefully Kobe's hissy-fit is to our bene-fit.

Lord Helmet
05-31-2007, 04:10 AM
We're gonna end up with the overrated Bynum, a broken-down Odom, and filler. We probably won't even get a draft pick out of it.
My thoughts exactly.

Terrible.

May as well have gave JO away......

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 04:15 AM
I don't think Bynum is overrated, and a pick in this draft sure would be nice.

But man we are going to suck really bad next year. Maybe that's the point, to win the lottery or something? Urgh.

Young
05-31-2007, 04:20 AM
Don't get to upset, we don't know if it's offical or who is involed yet.

SIG, we already sucked this year. I think that unless we got other GMs drunk and stoned could we only improve our team enough to be good. This team sucks right now. We are slow, don't have a second scoring opition, don't even have a natural two guard that can start. We suck. We can't suck much more.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 04:20 AM
oh yeah! ODOM! WE ARE GOING TO BE SO GOOD! WHO NEEDS JO! WE GOT LAMAR ODOM! WOOOOOOOOOOOO!

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 04:21 AM
ALSO WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME PETER VESCEY WAS RIGHT OR EVEN CLOSE? LOL It is speculation. He's a moron

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 04:22 AM
Was he the one that called the Peja trade?

Hicks
05-31-2007, 04:23 AM
Wow. I hope at least Odom and Bynum are they key pieces, and not Kwame. Which means it's probably Kwame and Bynum.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 04:24 AM
ALSO WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME PETER VESCEY WAS RIGHT OR EVEN CLOSE? LOL It is speculation. He's a moron

He nailed the Ron for Peja deal. There was something else recent that he was dead on about too. The fact that he was so matter of fact (according to UB) tells me this is more likely true than not, but of course nothing is official.

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 04:27 AM
I don't think Bynum is overrated, and a pick in this draft sure would be nice.

But man we are going to suck really bad next year. Maybe that's the point, to win the lottery or something? Urgh.

Yes, we will stink. The restoration (as Donnie described it) is off and a true rebuild is on its way. We can only hope that we have good decision makers in the front office. I guess that's the scary part. :eek:

The good news is, we already have several good young players to watch, will probably get a couple more and some solid picks for a couple years, and see this group improve. Think early 90's. The team needs to play the right way on and off the court and win back the fan base. I am one of many fans who will be happy for this change and support this team more than ever.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 04:28 AM
I swear to god if Larry Bird just hands JO over to the lakers for flippin Lamar "Broken" odom and Kwame "I suck" Brown...and whoever else i'm going to flippin lose it

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 04:33 AM
Yes, we will stink. The restoration (as Donnie described it) is off and a true rebuild is on its way. We can only hope that we have good decision makers in the front office. I guess that's the scary part. :eek:

The good news is, we already have several good young players to watch, will probably get a couple more and some solid picks for a couple years, and see this group improve. Think early 90's. The team needs to play the right way on and off the court and win back the fan base. I am one of many fans who will be happy for this change and support this team more than ever.

I'll be right there with you--if we get Bynum. I'll mourn JO for a while, but eventually I'll get all hyped about watching that young dude develop.

If we don't get Bynum.... I'll be mourning JO for a good long while. And Bird will develop what we in the 'Biz call a Conditioned Food Aversion to coffee.

Lord Helmet
05-31-2007, 04:34 AM
Wow. I hope at least Odom and Bynum are they key pieces, and not Kwame. Which means it's probably Kwame and Bynum.
I'd kill myself....

v_d_g
05-31-2007, 04:35 AM
Make sure to get screwed on this one, too, TPTB.

You got that right, dude

there's no telling how bad TPTB will screw this up

even WITH leverage

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 04:37 AM
I am officially lamar odoms biggest fan!
He is amazing!

Hicks
05-31-2007, 04:38 AM
So how do you feel about a young core of Williams, Diogu, Granger, and Bynum? We need a lot more to go with it, but that's not bad.

Y2J
05-31-2007, 04:38 AM
No Bynum and it's a dud in my opinion.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 04:38 AM
As most of you know I think Vescey is the best and if he says something is going to happen, I believe him 100%.

Of course circumstances can change and trades can always fall through.

But let me be clear about Vescey said. He did not say that the Lakers intend to go after JO, nor did he say that the Pacers intend to trade JO. Vescey isn't putting two and two together and coming up with a trade scenerio (Sam Smith), Vescey is reporting that JO will be playing in a Lakers uniform next season. The impression I got is that a trade is all but agreed to between the Pacers and Lakers (Vescey did not say that - I am interpreting what he did say) For Phil Jackson to tell Kobe that JO will be acquired - that means things are pretty much agreed to.

Vescey was asked again about 15 minutes ago by Andre Aldridge and Peter matter-of-factly said Lakers will be acquiring JO.

The only thing I don't know is why the Lakers will get

Oneal07
05-31-2007, 04:39 AM
LOL. . .I turned the channel and seen the end of the Kobe Trade, segment. . Dammit

carpediem024
05-31-2007, 04:42 AM
If the Lakers organization lie to Kobe, he would join a Western Conf. team and score 101 points wearing #13 jersey.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 04:42 AM
HAHAHHA THIS IS GREAT! WHO NEEDS THAT # 7! WE ARE GOING TO HAVE LAMAR ODOM! LIFE IS SOOOOOOOO GOOD!

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 04:42 AM
I've seen Bynum play a number of times and at times I think to myself he could become the second coming of Shaq. Also keep in mind when Donnie Walsh was asked if the Pacers intend to build the team around Granger - Walsh said he only builds a team around centers

Oneal07
05-31-2007, 04:43 AM
^^ Yeah, cause that's how your supposed to build. . .

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 04:43 AM
the real question is when was this trade agreed on? Recently? then why arent the buss's and co. contacting kobe at the start of all this? Vescey is an idiot. He just wants to call it if it happens...if not no one even remembers or cares.

Young
05-31-2007, 04:47 AM
So how do you feel about a young core of Williams, Diogu, Granger, and Bynum? We need a lot more to go with it, but that's not bad.

I really like it.

Diogu is a question mark but I like what we have there.

If we can get Farmar and/or 19th pick that would be great. Farmar, I don't know about, I have become a big believer in having a great point guard but if we dump Tinsley on the Lakers than I want Farmar. He has some talent.

One thing I guess I do like about Bynum as opposed to getting say Gerald Green and the 5th pick is that Bynum is a beast. There are very few centers with his size and talent. I think he has done solid for a 19 year old big man playing in the Triangle Offense, that is no easy task for a 19 year old. Having Bynum in the paint will be great. I think Bynum could be a better defender than Jermaine just because Bynum is bigger than Jermaine, he can be a lot more physical IMO.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 04:48 AM
How many posts of flipping out do we need?

Moving on, can this trade actually happen before draft night?

*realizes he will probably have to wonder about this trade for at least a month*

:suicide4:

madison
05-31-2007, 04:58 AM
Let's lighten up a bit. This is still not FACT. Having said that, it's not hard to believe since both teams need to shake things up AND this idea has bounced around for awhile with neither side denying anything.

My concern is not the loss of JO - he's unable to make the Pacers a contender with the talent we have now, and he's the most valuable commodity to use in trying to strengthen the team. No, my concern is WHAT DO WE GET FOR HIM?

The track record of the current Pacer deal-maker (Mr. Bird) is not too good in this respect. I can't really think of a 'deal' or a draft choice that's been made on his watch -- even with the help of Walsh -- that's been successful other than drafting Granger midway thru the 1st round two years ago.

So, we're possibly giving up our most valuable player for ????? Kind of scary if you ask me.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 05:04 AM
heres some of vesceys other amazing calls!

"I am certain that Jason Kidd will be a laker after the trade deadling"
"I am certain that ron artest is on his way to the lakers"

Dukins
05-31-2007, 05:07 AM
Hey Unclebuck, I saw the same thing that you saw about JO. According to Vecsey, this is the deal

"Bynum, Odom, filler + Laker's 1st rounder for JO and Tinsley".

Again I heard vecsey say this myself.

Tom White
05-31-2007, 05:11 AM
If we don't get Bynum I'm poopin in Bird's coffee.

Given your name, shouldn't you poop in his soup?

Of course, then soup wouldn't be good!

Shade
05-31-2007, 05:16 AM
Hey Unclebuck, I saw the same thing that you saw about JO. According to Vecsey, this is the deal

"Bynum, Odom, filler + Laker's 1st rounder for JO and Tinsley".

Again I heard vecsey say this myself.

:(


We trade JO and can't even get rid of Murphy?

WTF is going to start at the point? Daniels? We'd better get Farmar.

If the "filler" is Vlad, aka Murphy II, I'm gonna throw a fit.

Young
05-31-2007, 05:17 AM
Hey Unclebuck, I saw the same thing that you saw about JO. According to Vecsey, this is the deal

"Bynum, Odom, filler + Laker's 1st rounder for JO and Tinsley".

Again I heard vecsey say this myself.

I'm alright with that as long as that filler is Kwame Brown. About the only other player it could be is Vladimir Radmanovic and if Bird takes him I will flip. I'd only take Vladimir if we can dump Dunleavy or Murphy on them and that's only because Vladimir is cheaper.

Bynum, Odom, Brown, 19th pick for Jermaine and Tinsley is alright.

I'd really like Jordan Farmar in there since we give up Jamaal but if not no big deal.

Possible players at 19 for us are Rodney Stuckey or Javaris Crittenton.

My concern will be our forward overload.

We can sign a point guard.

What would we do? Dunleavy/Granger/Odom at the 2, 3, and 4? I don't mind Odom playing the 4 but I was hoping to clear up this whole problem with to many swingmen in a Jermaine O'Neal trade.

aero
05-31-2007, 05:24 AM
man if this is true im gonna be ****ed. i spent alot of money on jerseys last year and then boom JO is gonna be gone....great.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 05:27 AM
right. I bought a nice authentic jo jersey...lol beautiful
160 down the drain
ahha
I'm getting the swingman next time
Swingman Lamar odom!

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 05:27 AM
"Bynum, Odom, filler + Laker's 1st rounder for JO and Tinsley".

.


That was the part I missed Thanks

I'm going to add that to my first post.

Thanks.


I love that trade - getting rid of Tinsley is the best part. I think this trade is a no brainer.

Bball is probably so happy right now his computer exploded

Swingman
05-31-2007, 05:30 AM
Thanks for the info Dukins I wouldn't mind that trade

Using draft checker, this trade would work...
JO and Tinsley for Bynum, Odom, Brown, 1st rounder.

Conley and Law will probably be off the board before #19 so can't see us getting a PG in the draft unless we trade up. Maybe we can throw in some pieces with the 19th pick to move up.

If we get Farmer then I doubt they're giving us the pick.

Tom White
05-31-2007, 05:31 AM
heres some of vesceys other amazing calls!

"I am certain that Jason Kidd will be a laker after the trade deadling"
"I am certain that ron artest is on his way to the lakers"

OnlyPacersLeft, we get the darned idea. You don't like the trade. Now please, switch to decaf before it is too late.

Arcadian
05-31-2007, 05:37 AM
Bynum and Ike would make a nice pairing down the line. Right now Bynum is a defensive player to Ike's offense. I'm not sure if he is fit or smart enough yet to play starter minutes yet without fouling out.

Honestly, Lamar Odom is my favorite non-pacer and brings the dream of a all small forward line up: Danny, Williams, Odom, Dunleavy. Obviously we'll have to make a trade to fill out our roster.

Frank Slade
05-31-2007, 05:38 AM
What a turn of events. Any chance the filler is Famar ? :cool:
Bynum, 1st rounder which you may be able to snag an Acie Law perhaps...
Plus Odom.. I guess in the long run I'm not sure if there reallys is a vastly better deal to be had, considering what even the latest "Superstars" have been traded for recently ?

Pacerized
05-31-2007, 05:39 AM
If we trade J.O., I'd either want an elite player, or a deal revolving around several 1st. round picks. Any pick from the lakers after trading J.O. would likely be in the high 20's, so no thanks. I like Bynum, but if he was anything close to the second coming of Shaq, then the Lakers would be looking to trade Koby, and build around him. We could do better then this for J.O.
If they got a third team involved where we lost Murph, and gained 2 1st. rounders maybe.

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 05:40 AM
Okay, if that's the deal, then we at least got a lot in return. Kwame saves $ (as long as he is the filler), and Odom will probably be traded to somebody else within a year.

Question: could we turn right around and deal Odom and #19 for a higher draft choice?

If we stay at 19, I hope we land Rudy Fernandez. I've wanted us to draft that guy for like the last 3 years.

ABADays
05-31-2007, 05:40 AM
OK then since I haven't seen it mentioned I will ask because it's inevitable - what could we do with our #19 pick and whomever to move up and get Conley? There - that's out of the way.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 05:41 AM
If that's the deal, then I hope the filler if Farmar. It seems doubtful, but if we're giving up our starting PG we damn well better get a PG back in return.

DisapointedPacerFan
05-31-2007, 05:41 AM
I think we will move up to get Conley. We can't have Armstrong or Orien Greene starting at the PG position.

ABADays
05-31-2007, 05:43 AM
Thanks for the info Dukins I wouldn't mind that trade

Using draft checker, this trade would work...
JO and Tinsley for Bynum, Odom, Brown, 1st rounder.

Conley and Law will probably be off the board before #19 so can't see us getting a PG in the draft unless we trade up. Maybe we can throw in some pieces with the 19th pick to move up.

If we get Farmer then I doubt they're giving us the pick.

Sorry Swingman - I didn't see your post about moving up.

aero
05-31-2007, 05:43 AM
Would be nice to see Conley...even though i wanted Oden :(

If this trade does indeed go down then it looks like i wont be buying season tickets next season....Rebuilding...yeaeeeaaa:(

Frank Slade
05-31-2007, 05:45 AM
As far as the Conley discussion he will be gone by pick 10 if not Pick 5.
Well at least that's my humble opinion, I guess his stock could drop, but I don't think we will be that lucky.

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 05:46 AM
Question: could we turn right around and deal Odom and #19 for a higher draft choice?

I truly hope we do that. An Ike/Odom/Granger front line is too small, so Odom would hinder development of Ike or Granger...probably Ike. I would prefer we deal Odom and the pick for a solid PG for the future.

Swingman
05-31-2007, 05:47 AM
Sorry Swingman - I didn't see your post about moving up.

I edited so it's possible you read it before I changed it.

aero
05-31-2007, 05:48 AM
yeah Conley will be gone unless we indeed move up

Swingman
05-31-2007, 05:48 AM
Odom and #19 better get us more than just a higher pick IMO. Odom is a good and proven player. I agree we need to find a pg for the future. If we trade up into the top 10 though, I want Brewer. The 08 draft has all the PGs.

aero
05-31-2007, 05:51 AM
so when can this trade become official ?

SoupIsGood
05-31-2007, 05:53 AM
Odom and #19 better get us more than just a higher pick IMO. Odom is a good and proven player. I agree we need to find a pg for the future. If we trade up into the top 10 though, I want Brewer. The 08 draft has all the PGs.

Man, Brewer's defensive skills would sure look nice on this team. Even if he doesn't turn out to be much of a scorer, if he can play some lock-down D, he'd look pretty nice at SG next to Granger.

maragin
05-31-2007, 05:55 AM
The pieces of interest to me from the Lakers are Bynum, Farmar and Turiaf. Odom and draft picks are of value as well.

I'd like to thank Kobe for giving the Pacers a little leverage.

Can we trade for Phil Jackson?

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 05:56 AM
I'd rather trade JO to the celtics for the 5 pick and crap then do this. # 5 we could get acie law or something.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 05:56 AM
For what it's worth, I've emailed Vecsey about this. He's responded to an email of mine once before, so who knows he may do so again. If he does I'll let you know what he says.

ABADays
05-31-2007, 05:57 AM
Can we trade for Phil Jackson?

We don't have the two or three superstars it takes for Phil to win championships.

Swingman
05-31-2007, 05:58 AM
I'd rather trade JO to the celtics for the 5 pick and crap then do this. # 5 we could get acie law or something.

weren't you just jumping up and down with excitement just a few minutes ago? If we get the #5 pick, then we better get someone better than law. My priority would be Brewer, Conley, Law.

btowncolt
05-31-2007, 06:01 AM
The Celtics have no interested in turning the #5 pick into JO. It's been laughed at it pretty hard the few times it's been brought up in the local media.

Y2J
05-31-2007, 06:02 AM
Acie Law? His stock seems to have plummeted the past few months.

aero
05-31-2007, 06:02 AM
If this trade is indeed going to happen, when will it become official ?

Swingman
05-31-2007, 06:04 AM
I have no clue aero but I'd guess trades can commence when the playoffs are over.

kidthecat
05-31-2007, 06:05 AM
Man, I'm a big JO guy--and I'd be all over this trade.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 06:07 AM
I'm thinking draft night. I'm not sure they're official that night either, but they "go down" and are publically announced like they're official anyway and then "really we mean it this time" become official some time in July.

I hope we don't have to wait a month to find out of this is true. I kind of like the deal, though if we trade Tinsley for no PG I'm concerned. Although in turn, if Acie Law were to drop to #19 and we bit, I wouldn't lose much sleep.

Y2J
05-31-2007, 06:07 AM
The Celtics have no interested in turning the #5 pick into JO. It's been laughed at it pretty hard the few times it's been brought up in the local media.

I'm sure Paul Pierce finds the idea to be hilarious. But hey, good luck with Yi Jianlian and his complete lack of defense.

aero
05-31-2007, 06:08 AM
yeah id really like to know....so like last summer with the Al Harrington ordeal it looks like we will be waiting this one out to see how it pans out...

btowncolt
05-31-2007, 06:09 AM
Eh? Not a Celtics fan.

Peck
05-31-2007, 06:10 AM
I'm holding back till we get some real confirmation.

However all I will say is this, if this trade is true my faith in mankind will be restored.

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 06:15 AM
If we get Odom and a #19 pick, we should certainly be able to get a top notch PG. However, I would not deal Odom to move up in the draft. I think his value is simply too high to roll the dice with. Odom is somewhere between JO and Tinsley in ability. Therefore, we should be able to upgrade our PG position simply by dealing Odom directly.

Pacerized
05-31-2007, 06:15 AM
I don't understand the positive reaction to this idea.
None of the players mentioned, or the #19 pick will ever be as good as J.O. is now. We'd be giving up quality for quantity, and it doesn't fill our needs of a shooter, or upgrade at the point.

ABADays
05-31-2007, 06:17 AM
I don't understand the positive reaction to this idea.
None of the players mentioned, or the #19 pick will ever be as good as J.O. is now. We'd be giving up quality for quantity, and it doesn't fill our needs of a shooter, or upgrade at the point.

Ohhhh . . . I think we can find 20-10 and 46% shooting out of that group.

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 06:19 AM
I don't understand the positive reaction to this idea.
None of the players mentioned, or the #19 pick will ever be as good as J.O. is now. We'd be giving up quality for quantity, and it doesn't fill our needs of a shooter, or upgrade at the point.

Bynum might turn out to be as good or better than JO...but that is certainly not guaranteed. This trade, however, is the best you are going to get for a guy who is paid nearly 18M/year, plays only 60 games per year...and half of those on one leg. JO is not getting any younger and knowing when to fold is half the game. I think it's clearly time. This team is going nowhere as presently constructed.

Swingman
05-31-2007, 06:21 AM
Trading Odom for a quality PG and keeping the 19th pick sounds like a good option as well. Use the pick to get a SG or maybe PF.

Y2J
05-31-2007, 06:23 AM
I'd be o.k. with dealing Odom straight up for a good young point guard, depending on talent and filler.

Some names....

Raymond Felton
Kirk Hinrich (Bulls probably wont move him)
Devin Harris
Monta Ellis (highly unlikely the Warriors would move him)
Shaun Livingston (I think he's a bust but I'm sure some here would love him)
Randy Foye
Leandro Barbosa
Jarrett Jack
Sergio Rodriguez
T.J. Ford (pretty big contract)
Jose Calderon
Jameer Nelson

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 06:34 AM
Trading Odom for a quality PG and keeping the 19th pick sounds like a good option as well. Use the pick to get a SG or maybe PF.

I think that's one of several options. We clearly need to shore up the back court. I think with Foster, Baston, Odom, Bynum, Ike, Harrison and Murphy we have more than enough bodies to handle C and PF. Williams, Dunleavy, Granger and Quis are all capable SF's...so we are fine there. We really need a shooter and a PG....maybe that could be one person.

I would consider using one of these players to move up in the draft if the right player is available....then trade a couple of them to shore up the other back court position.

Anthem
05-31-2007, 06:34 AM
I'll be intrigued to find out what the filler is.

Kwame+Farmer=Awesome.

Radmonovic=Terrible

Kegboy
05-31-2007, 06:38 AM
As most of you know I think Vescey is the best and if he says something is going to happen, I believe him 100%.

Of course circumstances can change and trades can always fall through.

But let me be clear about Vescey said. He did not say that the Lakers intend to go after JO, nor did he say that the Pacers intend to trade JO. Vescey isn't putting two and two together and coming up with a trade scenerio (Sam Smith), Vescey is reporting that JO will be playing in a Lakers uniform next season. The impression I got is that a trade is all but agreed to between the Pacers and Lakers (Vescey did not say that - I am interpreting what he did say) For Phil Jackson to tell Kobe that JO will be acquired - that means things are pretty much agreed to.

Vescey was asked again about 15 minutes ago by Andre Aldridge and Peter matter-of-factly said Lakers will be acquiring JO.

The only thing I don't know is why the Lakers will get

Okay, I'll accept this. However, if for any reason this falls through, nobody can say that Vecsey's word is gospel anymore. Especially if he was that emphatic. I will link this thread in my sig if I have to.

I sure would like to get Farmar, considering he's one of those half-dozen Points we passed up last year for Shawne. Otherwise, I sure hope Law's stock is as low as nbadraft.net thinks. I'm not huge on the kid, but he's a definite talent, and any other year he'd be a definite lottery pick.

Isaac
05-31-2007, 06:46 AM
Shaun Livingston (I think he's a bust but I'm sure some here would love him)

Is this a dumb joke or do you really not know what happened?

For some reason, I believe Vescey on this one.

Pray for Bynum. Pray.

pwee31
05-31-2007, 06:47 AM
Wow!! Talk about coming home and having your world turned upside down! Went from Kobe wanting a trade, to not wanting a trade b/c JO could be on the way!?!

Glad I wasn't drunk or other any other influence when I got home tonight!

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 06:49 AM
I find it a bit interesting that Artest, Jackson, Harrington, Tinsley and JO may all be traded to teams on the west coast...as far from Indy as possible. There appears to be a pattern forming...

Kegboy
05-31-2007, 06:52 AM
I find it a bit interesting that Artest, Jackson, Harrington, Tinsley and JO may all be traded to teams on the west coast...as far from Indy as possible. There appears to be a pattern forming...

Plus Freddie's in Portland, and Rick may still end up in Seattle.

If only we could ship Bird off to Singapore.

grace
05-31-2007, 06:53 AM
I find it a bit interesting that Artest, Jackson, Harrington, Tinsley and JO may all be traded to teams on the west coast...as far from Indy as possible. There appears to be a pattern forming...

It's the pattern of trading good players to the other conference so you don't have to play them 4 times a year...but having Ron and Stephen on the other side of the country works for me too.

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 06:54 AM
I'll be intrigued to find out what the filler is.

Kwame+Farmer=Awesome.

Radmonovic=Terrible

Rad fits the filler on trade checker. I suspect it will be Rad because the Lakers would be giving up almost all their size. ...and IMO, we get a steal if we not only get Odom, Bynum and their first round pick...but also an expiring contract. It would be too good to be true.

I think the best possible case will be Rad and Farmar as filler.

ajbry
05-31-2007, 06:57 AM
Jesus christ, we're dealing away Jermaine O'Neal for Lamar Odom and Andrew Bynum? This is getting comical. I ain't got anything to say except this team just got remarkably worse via a trade for the 3rd time in the past 12 months.

2Cleva
05-31-2007, 06:59 AM
Talking to a LA connect and I don't believe the trade will be for both Bynum and Odom. One but not both.

We'll see.

Anthem
05-31-2007, 07:00 AM
Rad fits the filler on trade checker. I suspect it will be Rad because the Lakers would be giving up almost all their size. ...and IMO, we get a steal if we not only get Odom, Bynum and their first round pick...but also an expiring contract. It would be too good to be true.

I think the best possible case will be Rad and Farmar as filler.
Agree, which bothers me. We have absolutely no need of Rad, and should have insisted on moving Murphy at the same time.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 07:02 AM
As far as when this trade can be official. I don't know for sure, but I don't think any trades can be done until after the NBA Finals are over (I know trades have been announced in the past a couple of days after the finals are over and a few days prior to the draft.

NuffSaid
05-31-2007, 07:02 AM
Wait a minute!!!

You mean to tell me most of you would be fine w/trading JO, a 6-time All-Star, and Tinsley, a bonafied top 10 PG per ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=asts&order=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=false&seasontype=2&pos=pg&season=2007), for a PF who statistically is a hair or 2 below JO and 2 or 3 up-and-coming players who have barely sniffed the NBA?

You people are insane!!!

Before you fall in love with this Lakers/Pacers trade proposal, I suggest you do a player-to-player comparison by position, i.e., JO-to-Odom, Tinsley-to-Farmer. If you come back with that same level of enthusiasm I'm thinking some of you need to lay off whatever it is you're smokin'!!

Making such a trade will put the Pacers right back where they were to end the season - NO WHERE! Tweak the roster; don't throw it into total chaos! My goodness, people. Think about what you're asking.

Kegboy
05-31-2007, 07:04 AM
Well for once it appears we're dealing from a position of strength, especially if Kobe loves JO as much as we're lead to believe. We need to milk this for every cent it's worth.

ajbry
05-31-2007, 07:05 AM
Wait a minute!!!

You mean to tell me most of you would be fine w/trading JO, a 6-time All-Star, and Tinsley, a bonafied top 10 PG per ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=asts&order=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=false&seasontype=2&pos=pg&season=2007), for a PF who statistically is a hair or 2 below JO and 2 or 3 up-and-coming players who have barely sniffed the NBA?

You people are insane!!!

Before you fall in love with this Lakers/Pacers trade proposal, I suggest you do a player-to-player comparison by position, i.e., JO-to-Odom, Tinsley-to-Farmer. If you come back with that same level of enthusiasm I'm thinking some of you need to lay off whatever it is you're smokin'!!

Making such a trade will put the Pacers right back where they were to end the season - NO WHERE! Tweak the roster; don't throw it into total chaos! My goodness, people. Think about what you're asking.

As far as I'm concerned, the only direct comparison that matters is JO and Odom. JO is a great player on both ends of the floor. Odom, in my opinion, is bizarrely overrated and I ain't a fan of his game. Plus he really isn't that good to begin with, not even near JO's level.

That's all that matters, because with Odom as a #1 option, the Pacers are destined for a 20-win season.

Kegboy
05-31-2007, 07:08 AM
Wait a minute!!!

You mean to tell me most of you would be fine w/trading JO, a 6-time All-Star, and Tinsley, a bonafied top 10 PG per ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=asts&order=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=false&seasontype=2&pos=pg&season=2007), for a PF who statistically is a hair or 2 below JO and 2 or 3 up-and-coming players who have barely sniffed the NBA?

If we used that logic we never would have gotten JO in the first place. So, maybe that means Peck doesn't want to do this... :devil:

Anthem
05-31-2007, 07:09 AM
Well for once it appears we're dealing from a position of strength, especially if Kobe loves JO as much as we're lead to believe. We need to milk this for every cent it's worth.
Agree. There's no reason to take VladRad back. The filler should be Kwame. If LA needs more frontline guys, they can have Murphy and Harrison.

2Cleva
05-31-2007, 07:09 AM
As far as when this trade can be official. I don't know for sure, but I don't think any trades can be done until after the NBA Finals are over (I know trades have been announced in the past a couple of days after the finals are over and a few days prior to the draft.

Trades can officially be made once a team's season is over.


In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

For two months after receiving the player in trade or claiming him off waivers, if the player is being traded in combination with other players. However, the team is free to trade the player by himself (not packaged with other players) immediately. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 72 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#72) for a special case where players can be traded together in less than two months.)
When the trading deadline has passed. Teams are free to make trades again once their season has ended, but cannot trade players whose contracts are ending or could end due to an option or ETO.
For three months or until December 15th of that season (whichever is later) after signing a contract as a free agent. This obviously does not apply to the trade completing a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 76 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#76)). Interestingly, however, it is unclear whether this rule prevents a player who has been signed-and-traded from being traded agiain prior to three months/December 15 (see question number 80 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#80)).
For 30 days after signing as a draft pick.
Without the player's consent when the player is playing under a one-year contract (excluding any option year) and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the season. This includes first round draft picks following their fourth (option) season, who accept their team's qualifying offer for their fifth season. When the player consents to such a trade, the team loses its Larry Bird/Early Bird rights, and the player is considered a Non-Bird free agent. Note: when there is an option year involved, they can get around this regulation by invoking the option prior to the trade.
For one year after exercising the right of first refusal to keep a restricted free agent (however, the player can consent to a trade to any team except the team that tried to sign him).
After claiming a player on waivers, for 30 days if the player was claimed during a season, or until the first day of the next season if the player was claimed during the offseason.
A team cannot reacquire a player they traded away during that season (a season being July 1 - June 30) unless the player has been waived.
In the special case of players waived through the amnesty provision (see question number 18 (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#18)), the player cannot be reacquired for the length of the terminated contract.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#85

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 07:13 AM
Wait a minute!!!

You mean to tell me most of you would be fine w/trading JO, a 6-time All-Star, and Tinsley, a bonafied top 10 PG per ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&sort=asts&order=true&league=nba&avg=pg&qual=false&seasontype=2&pos=pg&season=2007), for a PF who statistically is a hair or 2 below JO and 2 or 3 up-and-coming players who have barely sniffed the NBA?

You people are insane!!!

Before you fall in love with this Lakers/Pacers trade proposal, I suggest you do a player-to-player comparison by position, i.e., JO-to-Odom, Tinsley-to-Farmer. If you come back with that same level of enthusiasm I'm thinking some of you need to lay off whatever it is you're smokin'!!

Making such a trade will put the Pacers right back where they were to end the season - NO WHERE! Tweak the roster; don't throw it into total chaos! My goodness, people. Think about what you're asking.


I don't judge trades on a player-to-player comparison. I judge trades on several other things. Like who is the best player involved in the trade. Well that is obviously JO, but I also judge a trade based upon who will be the best player in the trade in two or three seasons. And I really believe Bynum will be a better player than JO in three seasons. JO is so injury prone and he is starting to show a ton of wear and tear - I think in 2 years JO will be clearly on the downside of his career - I mean like Chris Webber is right now.

But more than anything I judge trades on what the roster will look like after the trade. No one is arguing that the Pacers would be better next season if this trade goes down, but in two season I think the pacers will be better than they would have been without this trade.

One last thing, I consider Tinsley to have negative trade value, meaning the pacers are forcing the Lakers to take him - I really doubt the Lakers want him at all. Pacers are saying if you want JO, you must take JT off our hands

Thanks 2Clava for the info on trades

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 07:13 AM
Agree. There's no reason to take VladRad back. The filler should be Kwame. If LA needs more frontline guys, they can have Murphy and Harrison.

OMG. That sounds funny. Dumping Murph's contract on them for Brown's expy. Pushing head case and Tinman. Great!

Will Galen
05-31-2007, 07:15 AM
I'll be intrigued to find out what the filler is.

Kwame+Farmer=Awesome.

Radmonovic=Terrible

I'd say Radmanovic. I really doubt the Lakers would trade both their centers. Yes they have Chris Mihm listed but he had season ending surgery himself. Of course if they do that trade before July 1, then Mihn and his $4m expiring contract could be part of the deal.

And Brown just had ankle surgery, so Brown wouldn't be high on the Pacers list.

As for Odom, I would try and trade him and the 19th pick to Minn. for their 7th pick to be used on Brewer.

I wouldn't worry about our point guard. Draft express has 19 point guards listed in their top 30 mock draft for 2008.

http://www.draftexpress.com/mymock.php?page=official&year=2008

I think things are looking great if this trade goes though.

Evan_The_Dude
05-31-2007, 07:17 AM
A few things to remember here... Just because we trade J.O. doesn't mean it's the last deal we'll make.

J.O. said it himself, if he is to be traded, it'll happen sooner than later.

I've said it repeatedly "The Pacers will either be drafting, or receive a player from this years draft."

Cornrows
05-31-2007, 07:18 AM
Thanks for the great info, Uncle Buck!

This deal would complete the blow up and rebuild theory. Not sure all of the parts laid out on the table can be put back together into a competitive NBA team. Should be interesting...

2Cleva
05-31-2007, 07:20 AM
Buck - no problem.

I don't believe the deal is finalized for a week or so but I do believe its done with Odom being the principle coming back, not Bynum.

BlueNGold
05-31-2007, 07:24 AM
Buck - no problem.

I don't believe the deal is finalized for a week or so but I do believe its done with Odom being the principle coming back, not Bynum.

Big mistake. We have a premier all-star big man and we are dumping salary. That would be a true downgrade in terms of talent as well as the future. This would be a coup for LA.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 07:29 AM
Bynum by himself=No deal. Odom by himself= no deal. Both together? Then we talk. Otherwise we are trading JO for crap on a cracker. If Kobe is only playing nice cause they said they are getting JO then we need to give Buss and Kupchack the middle finger and say "F U you are the team with the superstar demanding the trade not us, call us with something reasonable."

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 07:32 AM
A few things to remember here... Just because we trade J.O. doesn't mean it's the last deal we'll make.

J.O. said it himself, if he is to be traded, it'll happen sooner than later.

I've said it repeatedly "The Pacers will either be drafting, or receive a player from this years draft."

I agree. If we get Odom and Bynum that means Danny and Diogu are available. Make a move to get Conley or Law.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 07:33 AM
blah...its time to completely move on. It will take a good 10 years before the pacers even sniff the 2nd round more then likely. Stars don't want to play in Indiana and we are going to ship out the only star we have

Mr.ThunderMakeR
05-31-2007, 07:35 AM
Well for once it appears we're dealing from a position of strength, especially if Kobe loves JO as much as we're lead to believe. We need to milk this for every cent it's worth.The only milking will be the Lakers taking advantage of our near-retarded managment. Despite the position Kobe has put the Lakers in, they are still managing to rape us if the trade goes down as suggested. Im sorry but JO is worth more than Bynum, Odom, and a 19th pick.

But what really gets me is we are only getting MORE frontcourt players. Hell theyll probably draft another athletic swingman with the pick too. Im sorry but if this trade goes down, TPTB will officialy be on my ****** list. I was forgiving for the GS trade because I felt we had to take the hit to move Jax. But this trade is absolutely unacceptable.

When is our retarded management going to realize we have absolutely the worse backcourt in the NBA. And its been that way for 2 full seasons now, in a league dominated by backcourts no less. I feel like I need to staple notes to Bird and Walsh's foreheads saying 'FIX THE F'ING BACKCOURT'.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 07:37 AM
Thundermaker, if you think Vecsey's report is bad, I advise against you reading diamonddave00's thread...

ajbry
05-31-2007, 07:40 AM
When you think about it, if this trade goes through, the Pacers will have completed the absolute worst trilogy of transactions over the course of one season in sports history. It's almost pathetic.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 07:40 AM
I thought most of you were willing to move Tins at all costs?

FlavaDave
05-31-2007, 07:53 AM
You guys have heard of Andrew Bynum, right?

Am I the only one excited about a Diogu - Bynum front court? Has making the playoffs 17 times in 18 years spoiled Pacer fans?

I wish this forum was old enough to re-read all of the disgust over the Dale Davis - Jermaine O'Neal trade.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
05-31-2007, 08:03 AM
Anyone watching ESPN? I know its difficult to watch Stephen A. Smith but they are talking about all the Kobe hoopla, no mention of a Pacers-Lakers trade though.

NorCal_Pacerfan
05-31-2007, 08:07 AM
Well, I'm moving to the Portland area later this year. Oden is Portland bound. I guess I'll have to consider rooting for the Blazers. Oh, I'll still be a Pacer fan first, but it'll take me a little while to get over the disgust of how things have been operating in the Pacers front office.

JO is an allstar. Kobe is an allstar. They get JO. We don't get a star back. Pacers no longer have a star, which means it will be harder to get a star down the line. Lakers win. Pacers lose.

avoidingtheclowns
05-31-2007, 08:09 AM
the lakers need to include bynum and odom and a pick. thats all there is to it. we'd prefer to move JO to the west, but the lakers are going to be competing with the celtics for a nice package and nicer pick because paul pierce needs a all-star big too.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 08:11 AM
I'm actually pretty depressed if this is true...Its just now hitting me...Meh

Y2J
05-31-2007, 08:13 AM
Bynum/Diogu definitely excites me. Bynum is the big rebounder, shot blocker and Diogu the scorer. The only thing that worries me with those two would be speed/athleticism and of course the foul troubles.

Los Angeles
05-31-2007, 08:14 AM
As most of you know I think Vescey is the best and if he says something is going to happen, I believe him 100%.

Of course circumstances can change and trades can always fall through.

But let me be clear about Vescey said. He did not say that the Lakers intend to go after JO, nor did he say that the Pacers intend to trade JO. Vescey isn't putting two and two together and coming up with a trade scenerio (Sam Smith), Vescey is reporting that JO will be playing in a Lakers uniform next season. The impression I got is that a trade is all but agreed to between the Pacers and Lakers (Vescey did not say that - I am interpreting what he did say) For Phil Jackson to tell Kobe that JO will be acquired - that means things are pretty much agreed to.

Vescey was asked again about 15 minutes ago by Andre Aldridge and Peter matter-of-factly said Lakers will be acquiring JO.

The only thing I don't know is why the Lakers will get

NO - he's just saying that that's what Jackson said to Kobe. He's not saying Jackson is right and he's not saying that the deal is as good as done.

At least the way I read it. :shrug:

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 08:17 AM
Indy07....RIGHT!!!!!!!! Kobe demanded the trade not JO...why not milk it for all it's worth? and if not hell no deal!
jus bs for all i can tell

NorCal_Pacerfan
05-31-2007, 08:22 AM
you don't see the T'wolves giving away KG - even though he's getting older, etc.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-31-2007, 08:22 AM
atleast with JO we have a chance to win every night. With this group...we arent even close. And when we made the trade JO for Dale Davis or w/e...we still had reggie *Shrugs*
now who do we have? dunleavy and quis on a bad wheel? yay

Young
05-31-2007, 08:50 AM
atleast with JO we have a chance to win every night. With this group...we arent even close. And when we made the trade JO for Dale Davis or w/e...we still had reggie *Shrugs*
now who do we have? dunleavy and quis on a bad wheel? yay

I don't really care about winning night in and night out.

Everyone just has to realize that this team sucks. The window of opportunity to win a championship with Jermaine is over. We had our chance. If we stay the same, or really likely any change we make, won't make us a championship team.

Time to trade Jermaine and start re building now and suck up the losing. I don't want to see us be the Minnesota Timberwolves because while they may think they can still win with Kevin Garnett they still suck because they still miss the playoffs. I don't want to be the Timberwolves and waste a great player's best years.

pwee31
05-31-2007, 08:50 AM
Apparently some Laker fans have caught word of this as well?!

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/vescey-oneal-to-la-within-a-few-weeks-t74982.html

LG33
05-31-2007, 08:55 AM
I know I'm chiming in a bit late on this issue, but...DON'T TRADE JAMAAL! (Tinsley will average a double-double on any other team...that's my biggest fear)

Also, are we going to lose Jermaniac to LakersGround or some other foreign forum...?

Young
05-31-2007, 08:58 AM
Bynum/Diogu definitely excites me. Bynum is the big rebounder, shot blocker and Diogu the scorer. The only thing that worries me with those two would be speed/athleticism and of course the foul troubles.

Diogu worries me more but with a player like Bynum next to him he should be fine with time.

I think that Bynum's mobility is very good. He will be fine.

LG33
05-31-2007, 09:03 AM
Lamar Odom is a star. Still, I'd try to repackage him with Daniels and Murphy or some **** for Gasol and Mike Miller...Will be dreaming tonight!

Oh, and does this mean Kobe has finally done something good for my team? By forcing the trade through and compelling the Lakers to give up more than they want?

Coop
05-31-2007, 09:07 AM
I would accept getting Bynum, Odom and the 19th. While we are giving up the best player in the trade, we're receiving enormous potential (Bynum) and another trade asset if we choose to use it (Odom). If Tins is indeed included, then we'll need to trade Odom or Odom+19 for a starting caliber PG.

On the other hand, I'm not as excited about a Diogu/Bynum front court as others seem to be. I don't think Diogu will ever be anything more than a 15 and 8 type guy. He's too small and not athletic enough. When he gets paired up against guys like Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson (future stars in the East), he won't stand a chance because his size limits him. I think he would be a great guy to have as the first big man off the bench, but not our future power forward.

A trade like this may not be so attractive on the surface, but it opens up more opportunities for us to make future moves. We would have a draft pick, Odom (who could be a very servicable player on a contender), and we would have a nice young core to add to with Granger, Williams, and Bynum. Just my .02

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:27 AM
Bynum AND Odom AND the #19 pick are a must, and even then I'm not too happy with the deal. Bynum is unproven, Odom is more injury-prone than JO (not to mention a natural SF, which we already have 8908796897 of), and the #19 pick won't net us a starting PG (we don't address the backcourt, and in fact, make it even worse).

Anything less than that and I will be absolutely livid.

3rdStrike
05-31-2007, 09:28 AM
I hope the deal goes down, for the sake of both teams. Will the Pacers struggle next year? Yeah, they would have struggled next year with JO or without. But at long last we'll get to see a different kind of offense. And even better, we'd be back in the draft. Grab the PG, whatever it takes, and let the fans exhale as the team gets rid of the remaining old players and finally gets to start over.

IMO Bynum will be a star. JO gone = Williams and Granger can get an offense built around their skills. And with a skilled passer like Odom feeding them the ball, look out.

I hope this trade gets done ASAP.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 09:42 AM
HAHAHHA THIS IS GREAT! WHO NEEDS THAT # 7! WE ARE GOING TO HAVE LAMAR ODOM! LIFE IS SOOOOOOOO GOOD!
Dude I seriously wonder if you are on speed or PCP while writing your posts. Really this is not a hateful post or anything, I just dont understand what would posses you to post like this.

Peck
05-31-2007, 10:06 AM
You guys have heard of Andrew Bynum, right?

Am I the only one excited about a Diogu - Bynum front court? Has making the playoffs 17 times in 18 years spoiled Pacer fans?

I wish this forum was old enough to re-read all of the disgust over the Dale Davis - Jermaine O'Neal trade.

If you'd like I could give you my opinion of that trade now. ;)

Peck
05-31-2007, 10:13 AM
I'm breaking my own rule about not commenting until we get verification.

But here goes.

If somebody came up to me and said "would you trade Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsely for" I would stop them right there and say YES.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 10:18 AM
If you'd like I could give you my opinion of that trade now.Mad that Dale Davis was never HALF the player Jermaine is? Jermaine O'Neal on his worst day is as good as Dale Davis is on his best day. If Reggie had Jermaine in his prime instead of Dale Davis, I bet you there would be a championship ring on Reggie's finger right now.

Raskolnikov
05-31-2007, 10:29 AM
Hey Unclebuck, I saw the same thing that you saw about JO. According to Vecsey, this is the deal

"Bynum, Odom, filler + Laker's 1st rounder for JO and Tinsley".

Again I heard vecsey say this myself.
Seems like an OK deal to me. :)

Peck
05-31-2007, 10:38 AM
Mad that Dale Davis was never HALF the player Jermaine is? Jermaine O'Neal on his worst day is as good as Dale Davis is on his best day. If Reggie had Jermaine in his prime instead of Dale Davis, I bet you there would be a championship ring on Reggie's finger right now.

I'd take that bet & up it by 100% of whatever you offered.

I know this is going to be like shoveling sand but I will give it a shot anyway.

Basketball is a team sport. To win you have to have team players.

That is all.

Evan_The_Dude
05-31-2007, 11:34 AM
I think if Reggie had Jermaine in his prime instead of Rik Smits, there would be a championship ring on his finger right now.

pwee31
05-31-2007, 11:36 AM
An article about the whole ordeal! Take it as you will.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05312007/sports/jermaine__kobe_may_team_up_sports_peter_vecsey.htm

bambam
05-31-2007, 02:20 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Indiana Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Murphy_Troy_gsw.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
10.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.2 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 6.9 apg in 31.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Radmanovic_Vladimir_sea.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Vladimir Radmanovic
6-10 PF from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
6.6 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 18.0 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -3.8 ppg, +6.0 rpg, and -2.3 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>L.A. Lakers Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Radmanovic_Vladimir_sea.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Vladimir Radmanovic
6-10 PF from Serbia-Montenegro (Foreign)
6.6 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 1.2 apg in 18.0 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Murphy_Troy_gsw.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
10.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.2 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 6.9 apg in 31.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +3.8 ppg, -6.0 rpg, and +2.3 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Indiana and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="49%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Trade ID</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl>Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 3864289.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

bambam
05-31-2007, 02:22 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Indiana Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Murphy_Troy_gsw.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
10.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.2 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +2.4 ppg, +6.0 rpg, and +3.4 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>L.A. Lakers Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Murphy_Troy_gsw.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Troy Murphy
6-11 PF from Notre Dame
10.3 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 1.9 apg in 27.2 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -2.4 ppg, -6.0 rpg, and -3.4 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Indiana and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="49%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Trade ID</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl>Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 3864293.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Mourning
05-31-2007, 03:01 PM
Getting Odom and Bynum IMO is essential in any deal that nets the Lakers JO and doesn't involve a third team.

I would prefer to get Kwame Brown aswell as opposed to Radmanovic. I doubt we would immediately deal Odom to another team as I would imagine he would be the new defacto leader of the Pacers the coming season.

Bynum, Odom, Granger, Marquis and ??? as our starting line up with Ike, Shawne, Dun Dun, Foster and a backup PG (Keith?) as the main players off the bench.

Not too bad when you are on a major re-build. Not great by all means, but a lot off .... potential for the coming years and a good pick coming our way next year in a guard heavy draft from what some of our members here are saying.

I could live with that, especially if we get Brown and his expiring contract so we can actually re-sign everyone that we want to re-sign.

Btw IF this happens there are going to be more trades to strengthen the backcourt. That's pretty much unavoidable IMO.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

esabyrn333
05-31-2007, 03:23 PM
my 2 cents

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Indiana Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 6.9 apg in 31.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Ratliff_Theo_por.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Theo Ratliff
6-10 C from Wyoming
2.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 21.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #05 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -13.5 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and -6.4 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Boston Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Ratliff_Theo_por.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Theo Ratliff
6-10 C from Wyoming
2.5 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 0.0 apg in 21.5 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #05 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +13.4 ppg, +6.3 rpg, and +4.8 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>L.A. Lakers Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 6.9 apg in 31.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +0.1 ppg, -8.8 rpg, and +1.6 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Indiana, Boston, and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana, Boston, and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

31andonly
05-31-2007, 03:26 PM
If #5 turns out to be M.Conley, I think I'd pull the trigger on this one..

bambam
05-31-2007, 04:13 PM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Indiana Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 6.9 apg in 31.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jordan Farmar
6-2 PG from UCLA
4.4 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 15.2 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +4.3 ppg, +10.4 rpg, and +0.3 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>L.A. Lakers Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Odom_Lamar_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Lamar Odom
6-10 PF from Rhode Island
15.9 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 4.8 apg in 39.3 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Brown_Kwame_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Kwame Brown
6-11 C from Glynn Academy (HS)
8.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 27.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Bynum_Andrew_lal.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Andrew Bynum
7-0 C from St. Joseph (HS)
7.8 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 1.1 apg in 21.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jordan Farmar
6-2 PG from UCLA
4.4 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 1.9 apg in 15.2 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/no_photo.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>2007 Draft #19 Pick
0-0 from
No games yet played in 2006/07</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/ONeal_Jermaine_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jermaine O'Neal
6-11 C from Eau Claire (HS)
19.4 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 2.4 apg in 35.7 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 6.9 apg in 31.1 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -4.3 ppg, -10.4 rpg, and -0.3 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_s>Successful Scenario</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_s>Due to Indiana and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Indiana and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="80%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="49%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Trade ID</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl>Every trade made by fans is allocated a unique Trade ID which you can share with friends and fellow basketball fans to allow them to see your trade scenario. The Trade ID for this scenario is 3864531.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Moses
05-31-2007, 04:30 PM
I think you only trade JO to the lakers if we can dump Murphy's contract with it.

The ideal situation would be to dump JO and Murphy on the Lakers. I actually want to keep Tinsley around. I think he could be pretty good in an up tempo offense with a new HC and Odom...but on second thought, if we can get Farmar in..then I really don't care if we lose him. I just know I don't want to enter next season with McLeod as the starter.

Phildog
05-31-2007, 04:55 PM
you don't see the T'wolves giving away KG - even though he's getting older, etc.


You also don't see Minny getting any better. When is the last time they made the playoffs? Where did they finish this year? They were one of the worst teams I watched last year, and they managed to beat us. They really have no hope----same boat.

I think everyone is drastically overestimating JO's worth. What has he really done for us? Did he lead us to the playoff's this year with the team on his back? Did he play a full season? I like JO, but come on......

Kegboy
05-31-2007, 04:55 PM
Btw IF this happens there are going to be more trades to strengthen the backcourt. That's pretty much unavoidable IMO.


Don't be too sure. This is exactly what a lot of us said immediately after the GS trade, and it never happened.

fwpacerfan
05-31-2007, 04:56 PM
This team isn't going to win as constructed so I think it's a good trade. I would like to see a bad contract go away with the deal so if that means we keep Tinsley and get rid of Murphy so be it. With JO due to get 20+ mil the next few years and this team clearly in a rebuilding mode - I think something needs to be done.

Kegboy
05-31-2007, 05:04 PM
An article about the whole ordeal! Take it as you will.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05312007/sports/jermaine__kobe_may_team_up_sports_peter_vecsey.htm

See, even Vecsey gets it:




No specifics were delivered. No negotiating has been done. Still, Lamar Odom would have to be the principal of the package in order to adhere to NBA trade specifications. He's currently on the Laker salary cap for $12,348,596 and has two seasons remaining at 900G per raises.

...
Surely Andrew Bynum ($2.030M/$2.172M/$2.769M) must be included as well. I can't see the Pacers parting with a 7-footer without getting one back.

NapTonius Monk
05-31-2007, 05:14 PM
Yes, we will stink. The restoration (as Donnie described it) is off and a true rebuild is on its way. We can only hope that we have good decision makers in the front office. I guess that's the scary part. :eek:

The good news is, we already have several good young players to watch, will probably get a couple more and some solid picks for a couple years, and see this group improve. Think early 90's. The team needs to play the right way on and off the court and win back the fan base. I am one of many fans who will be happy for this change and support this team more than ever.

Agreed! I think this team is barely 2nd round at best (and I mean with everything falling into place). I wouldn't mind this deal. Although, I would like to get Farmar, and then draft a shooting guard (Morris Almond).

Doug
05-31-2007, 05:15 PM
If I'm the Pacers, Odom + Bynum + pick is the absolute minimum.

And I'd be tempted to then swap Odom + pick for a higher pick - Memphis, maybe?

NapTonius Monk
05-31-2007, 05:21 PM
I've seen Bynum play a number of times and at times I think to myself he could become the second coming of Shaq. Also keep in mind when Donnie Walsh was asked if the Pacers intend to build the team around Granger - Walsh said he only builds a team around centers

ESPN had an interesting bit of info this morning...since the 98/99 season, either SHAQ or Duncan has been in the finals. There is much to be said for that, even in this run and gun period. The big men are still wining titles. I'd love to have Bynum, just as long as we get a big man tutor for him.

Ragnar
05-31-2007, 05:29 PM
Gee is it possible they could sign Luke Walkton to a huge contract and we could send them Foster, Quis and granger too? That way we could get the first pick for next 10 years!

Anthem
05-31-2007, 05:50 PM
See, even Vecsey gets it:
Hey, this is great. GREAT, actually.

Cat's out of the bag that the Lakers are going after O'Neal, and they've already promised Kobe they'll get him.

That should give us roughly the best bargaining position ever. Almost no way to screw that up.

RWB
05-31-2007, 06:15 PM
I don't really care about winning night in and night out.

Everyone just has to realize that this team sucks. The window of opportunity to win a championship with Jermaine is over. We had our chance. If we stay the same, or really likely any change we make, won't make us a championship team.

Time to trade Jermaine and start re building now and suck up the losing. I don't want to see us be the Minnesota Timberwolves because while they may think they can still win with Kevin Garnett they still suck because they still miss the playoffs. I don't want to be the Timberwolves and waste a great player's best years.


Going to ride the coat tails of Rommie's post as I believe exactly the same. Just wanted to get on board to say make the trade. I stated at the last forum party JO is a good character guy, but his time is limited and it is time to move on.

Mourning
05-31-2007, 06:29 PM
Going to ride the coat tails of Rommie's post as I believe exactly the same. Just wanted to get on board to say make the trade. I stated at the last forum party JO is a good character guy, but his time is limited and it is time to move on.

Aggreed! I think we should have started this course last summer before we aquired Al, but ok atleast now there is what seems to be an acknowledgement that we are rebuilding not just some retooling.

Late, true, but it's better then to dwell and continue on the course that the Timberwolves for example have been taking for the last few years.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Shade
05-31-2007, 06:41 PM
See, even Vecsey gets it:

Yes. If we don't get both, I will publically call for Bird/Walsh's resignation.

Even I can only take so much crap over such a short span of time.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 06:42 PM
I have to echo the sentiment that Odom, Bynum and the 07 First are all musts in this deal if they want JO. If we can get them to give us Brown for Murphy then I would do that too.

Los Angeles
05-31-2007, 06:43 PM
Anything less than that and I will be absolutely livid.

You aren't livid right now?

Maybe it's my exposure to the Lakers talking, but I'd say that many of you (Shade in particular) are over estimating JO's value (talent minus contract) and under estimating the value on the table from LA's end.

How could you swear off the team based on this deal?

Let's play think real fast: Name the standout marquis player on the Bulls. OK, now name the standout marquis player on the Pistons.

These are teams that came together as a group, and without bringing a legit star next to JO, that's the only way we are going to make it through the tunnel.

What's the use of "building" the team around JO? How many different "second option" teammates has he been paired with? How many more combinations is he supposed to endure? JO is all alone and and has proven that he can't do it alone without wrecking his body.

Let's be real. He IS a legit star. He just isn't a one-man show. He's injury prone, he costs 20 mil a year, and the only player he's done well with on the court was Ron Artest. Think about that for a minute.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 06:43 PM
Yes. If we don't get both, I will publically call for Bird/Walsh's resignation.

Even I can only take so much crap over such a short span of time.

You have to figure that they realize that everyone is saying they have to get Odom and Bynum to make this even close to reasonable. Hopefully they don't let the Lakers take them to the cleaners.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 06:44 PM
Yes. If we don't get both, I will publically call for Bird/Walsh's resignation.

Even I can only take so much crap over such a short span of time.

If we trade O'Neal to the Lakers for only Odom OR Bynum, I'm done with both of them as well. It can always get better later, but these two need to go if that's what they do.

Gyron
05-31-2007, 06:47 PM
Yes. If we don't get both, I will publically call for Bird/Walsh's resignation.

Even I can only take so much crap over such a short span of time.

I'm sure glad you will publically call for their resignation. Because you haven't been doing that already for the past two years.......:D

Shade
05-31-2007, 06:48 PM
You aren't livid right now?

Maybe it's my exposure to the Lakers talking, but I'd say that many of you (Shade in particular) are over estimating JO's value (talent minus contract) and under estimating the value on the table from LA's end.

How could you swear off the team based on this deal?

Let's play think real fast: Name the standout marquis player on the Bulls. OK, now name the standout marquis player on the Pistons.

These are teams that came together as a group, and without bringing a legit star next to JO, that's the only way we are going to make it through the tunnel.

What's the use of "building" the team around JO? How many different "second option" teammates has he been paired with? How many more combinations is he supposed to endure? JO is all alone and and has proven that he can't do it alone without wrecking his body.

Let's be real. He IS a legit star. He just isn't a one-man show. He's injury prone, he costs 20 mil a year, and the only player he's done well with on the court was Ron Artest. Think about that for a minute.

No, right now I'm worried and annoyed. You'll KNOW when I'm livid. ;)

Conversely, I would say that many people on here underestimate JO's value.

There is no way in hell that either of those trades presented are even close to fair for us. JO is much better than Odom and less injury-prone, and Odom's natural position is one that we're already flooded at. Bynum hasn't shown enough yet to justify trading an All-Star and franchise player for. For all we know, he could end up being another Bender.

This is a major case of "the grass is always greener." People around here don't appreciate what they have, and won't until it's gone, and we're winning 20 games a season while our SG plays PG, our SFs play SG, our PFs play C, and our undersized starting PF (who is actually a SF) is injured for half the season.

I'm not saying that we should keep JO if we're going to rebuild, but we sure as hell should not (and better not) trade him for garbage.

Shade
05-31-2007, 06:52 PM
I'm sure glad you will publically call for their resignation. Because you haven't been doing that already for the past two years.......:D

Actually, I haven't. I've been annoyed at their recent moves, but I've tried to give them the benefit of the doubt, even with the GS trade at first.

But if they take either of those crap offers, I'm done with defending them.

Shade
05-31-2007, 07:01 PM
A lot of people also don't seem to understand that we have the Lakers over a small barrell here. We can easily make this a "lose Bynum & Odom, or lose Kobe" situation for them. Losing Kobe and going into rebuilding mode would be a horrific situation for them. You can bet they're going to try to avoid that at all costs.

RWB
05-31-2007, 07:05 PM
JO is much better than Odom and less injury-prone, and Odom's natural position is one that we're already flooded at.


I can see your reasoning except for the injury prone issue. I suspect games missed are pretty similar and yes that would include the suspension. Still, thats games missed no matter how you look at it.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 07:11 PM
My 100% honest opinion about JO is that his career is about over. In 3 (or maybe even 2) years he won't be any better than Webber is right now (and I think Webber is about 50% of the player he used to be). JO's body is breaking down, he cannot play a full season - he is extremely injury prone, and his nagging injuries greatly impact his effectiveness as a player.

JO's trade value will never be this high again as other teams figure out he's on the downward side of his effectiveness. And unlike a few other big men JO will not be worth much as an unathletic injury prone power forward. At least Webber is a great passer and has tremendous hands.

Now is the time we need to trade JO. If we don't trade him this summer, we will be stuck with him and his only true value will be as an expiring contract. Of course the value of a 22M dollar expiring contract is pretty high, but if anyone thinks that the Pacers will be able to get much for JO in two or three years based upon anything other than his expiring contract, I think you are very mistaken.


Edit: Shade- I think Odom is a natural power forward. He's much more effective playing PF. And his best skill is as a rebounder - he is at least as good of a rebounder as JO.

Young
05-31-2007, 07:12 PM
A lot of people also don't seem to uiderstand that we have the Lakers over a small barrell here. We can easily make this a "lose Bynum & Odom, or lose Kobe" situation for them. Losing Kobe and going into rebuilding mode would be a horrific situation for them. You can bet they're going to try to avoid that at all costs.

I don't think we have the Lakers "over a small barrell" as some have said.

Sure we can do that but then the Lakers can say that's fine because Pau Gasol is avaliable. Then there are Amare Stoudamire and maybe Kevin Garnett could be avaliable as well. Rashard Lewis is on the market too.

I don't think it is, trade for Jermaine or lose Kobe. I think the Lakers need to improve their current team, but Jermaine is not the only way, IMO.

Shade
05-31-2007, 07:15 PM
My 100% honest opinion about JO is that his career is about over. In 3 (or maybe even 2) years he won't be any better than Webber is right now (and I think Webber is about 50% of the player he used to be). JO's body is breaking down, he cannot play a full season - he is extremely injury prone, and his nagging injuries greatly impact his effectiveness as a player.

JO's trade value will never be this high again as other teams figure out he's on the downward side of his effectiveness. And unlike a few other big men JO will not be worth much as an unathletic injury prone power forward. At least Webber is a great passer and has tremendous hands.

Now is the time we need to trade JO. If we don't trade him this summer, we will be stuck with him and his only true value will be as an expiring contract. Of course the value of a 22M dollar expiring contract is pretty high, but if anyone thinks that the Pacers will be able to get much for JO in two or three years based upon anything other than his expiring contract, I think you are very mistaken.

You think that either of dd00's trade proposals are high trade value? Maybe not in the sense of "high" that I'm thinking about.

I would rather keep JO and let his contract come off the books (or trade his expiring when the time comes) than trade him for crap like Odom and filler. Crap like that is like trying to patch a hull breach with bubble gum.

Shade
05-31-2007, 07:19 PM
I don't think we have the Lakers "over a small barrell" as some have said.

Sure we can do that but then the Lakers can say that's fine because Pau Gasol is avaliable. Then there are Amare Stoudamire and maybe Kevin Garnett could be avaliable as well. Rashard Lewis is on the market too.

I don't think it is, trade for Jermaine or lose Kobe. I think the Lakers need to improve their current team, but Jermaine is not the only way, IMO.

All of those guys' trade values (except maybe Gasol's or Lewis's, and neither of those guys is bringing a trophy to LA) are higher than JO's.

The Lakers are in a position to where they MUST please their franchise player, or he'll leave. We're not.

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 07:26 PM
I would rather keep JO and let his contract come off the books (or trade his expiring when the time comes) than trade him for crap like Odom and filler. Crap like that is like trying to patch a hull breach with bubble gum.

So you are content with waiting for 3 years - muddle through - and you won't complain about a lack of direction as we await for JO's contract to either expire or get to its last year.

I think Bynum has a chance to be something special - yes it is a gamble, yes he might never amount to anything - but what if there is 60% chance that in 2 years Bynum and Dwight Howard are clearly the two best centers in the east. I'm willing to take that chance. Sometimes teams have to take a chance, and I'm willing to allow the pacers to do so

FlavaDave
05-31-2007, 07:35 PM
So you are content with waiting for 3 years - muddle through - and you won't complain about a lack of direction as we await for JO's contract to either expire or get to its last year.

I think Bynum has a chance to be something special - yes it is a gamble, yes he might never amount to anything - but what if there is 60% chance that in 2 years Bynum and Dwight Howard are clearly the two best centers in the east. I'm willing to take that chance. Sometimes teams have to take a chance, and I'm willing to allow the pacers to do so


Hell yeah. :highfive:

We don't agree often, but boy are we on the same page here.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 07:59 PM
I'd take that bet & up it by 100% of whatever you offered.

I know this is going to be like shoveling sand but I will give it a shot anyway.

Basketball is a team sport. To win you have to have team players.

That is all.
Basketball is a sport where you put the ball in a circular shape. To win you have to have players that can put the ball in that shape.

That is all. Dale Davis is PJ Brown, that is all he is, and that aint nothing.

CableKC
05-31-2007, 08:08 PM
For crying out loud I ****ing hate the **** licking Lakers with all my heart and soul.
Thanks Los Angeles......you just got my day off to a good start with your avatar :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::buddies: :buddies:

RWB
05-31-2007, 08:18 PM
Basketball is a sport where you put the ball in a circular shape. To win you have to have players that can put the ball in that shape.

That is all. Dale Davis is PJ Brown, that is all he is, and that aint nothing.

One thing JO will always lead Dale Davis in, fake posturing. :p

ABADays
05-31-2007, 08:22 PM
I'm breaking my own rule about not commenting until we get verification.

But here goes.

If somebody came up to me and said "would you trade Jermaine O'Neal and Jamaal Tinsely for" I would stop them right there and say YES.

You and me both! What don't people get about JO being an All-Star in the EASTERN Conference? He won't even get a sniff in the West. His value is probably higher than it ever will be with the Pacers because of the Laker situation. There won't be another opportunity like this.

Someone else expressed concern about Tinsley averaging a double-double with another team. He AIN'T going to ever do that here so it doesn't make a lick of difference to me if he goes some place else and does it. He will never put the effort into doing that here. Tinsley has been bad for this franchise.

Bball
05-31-2007, 08:22 PM
Basketball is a sport where you put the ball in a circular shape. To win you have to have players that can put the ball in that shape.

That is all. Dale Davis is PJ Brown, that is all he is, and that aint nothing.

If that is the essence of your understanding of the game then I think it's safe to say you'll never understand the position of several posters on this forum.

-Bball

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 08:28 PM
You and me both! What don't people get about JO being an All-Star in the EASTERN Conference? He won't even get a sniff in the West. His value is probably higher than it ever will be with the Pacers because of the Laker situation. There won't be another opportunity like this.

Someone else expressed concern about Tinsley averaging a double-double with another team. He AIN'T going to ever do that here so it doesn't make a lick of difference to me if he goes some place else and does it. He will never put the effort into doing that here. Tinsley has been bad for this franchise.

I think Tins is probably the snagging point in this from the Lakers perspective. I seriously doubt they have a problem giving up both Odom and Bynum if it means they can keep Kobe happy and bring in a guy to play the second fiddle in JO. Giving up Brown or whomever and having to take Tins back is probably something they are balking at. He is the completely wrong PG for that system.

Speed
05-31-2007, 08:31 PM
My 100% honest opinion about JO is that his career is about over. In 3 (or maybe even 2) years he won't be any better than Webber is right now (and I think Webber is about 50% of the player he used to be). JO's body is breaking down, he cannot play a full season - he is extremely injury prone, and his nagging injuries greatly impact his effectiveness as a player.

JO's trade value will never be this high again as other teams figure out he's on the downward side of his effectiveness. And unlike a few other big men JO will not be worth much as an unathletic injury prone power forward. At least Webber is a great passer and has tremendous hands.

Now is the time we need to trade JO. If we don't trade him this summer, we will be stuck with him and his only true value will be as an expiring contract. Of course the value of a 22M dollar expiring contract is pretty high, but if anyone thinks that the Pacers will be able to get much for JO in two or three years based upon anything other than his expiring contract, I think you are very mistaken.


Edit: Shade- I think Odom is a natural power forward. He's much more effective playing PF. And his best skill is as a rebounder - he is at least as good of a rebounder as JO.


This is interesting, I'm always curious is it age that starts the decline of a player or how long he's been in the league.


When you go to buy a used car, it's more important how many miles are on it than how old or what year it is, right?

DaSMASH
05-31-2007, 08:43 PM
Peter was just on NBATV and said that Phil Jackson told Kobe that the Lakers will be acquring JO and that is why Kobe has backed off his trade demand as of late today.

Andre Aldridge asked Vescy if he was speculating - and Vescey there is no specualtion involved here.


Sorry for another JO to Lakers thread, but I thought this was NEWS and thought it deserved its own thread.

Edit: I missed the part where Vescey said what the pacers would get in return. But thanks to Dukins, here is what Vescey said
Bynum, Odom, filler + Laker's 1st rounder for JO and Tinsley".


Please go to the trade threads on this forum and look at my post titled:

DaSmash's trade option #2 & #3- The Los Angeles Franchises

Surprize, Surprize !!!

Naptown_Seth
05-31-2007, 08:53 PM
I'm somewhat in the Shade camp, but not completely. I think guys on all sides of this have made valid points. Like Peck I think Dale was a huge impact guy, but I also think Dat is right about "ball in hoop" at the end of the day too.

I think Odom can play a nice PF but that puts Ike behind him. It also leaves you forcing Dun to go at the SG spot because you must get Danny and Shawne in (together if possible). Anyway though, Odom is a good defender, good rebounder and fairly quick. That's not a bust if you have to use him as the starting PF.

The potential on Bynum is of course a risk, but let me point out one key element regarding why such a high risk looks pretty interesting right now...

11-23 over the final 3 months
This equates to a 27 win season. TWENTY-SEVEN WINS

That's the reality of just how awful this team was post-trade. Yes the record was a bit better due to some wins just prior to that, but in general this is how the team played as it "came together". Yes a tough road run was in the mix, but so were a bunch of very favorable games too. In total that last 3 months was a fairly balanced schedule IIRC and gave us a good read of what they could do.

Brushing that off on Rick, a coach who was 4 for 5 in making the SECOND ROUND prior to this season and had the team above 500 before the trade, is a huge mistake. That wasn't the problem, he didn't just massively jump the shark or something. He's been a 45 win coach and instantly "lost the team" and went to a 27 win caliber coach? Of course not.

So that means that you might be even worse with the new coach if you stand pat, and hoping for more than 35 wins seems iffy to me either way. Things don't just fix themselves.


With that in mind, staring 30 wins in the face anyway, I think you measure risk vs reward and realize you can't do much worse than you probably will and a trade at least gives you some chance at getting better in a year or two. Okay, the % of it panning out is only 35%, it's still better than 0%.

Naturally I agree that if you can get a better deal than the Lakers offers then you take it. My point is that making a talent for potential deal now seems to make more sense than it did last season. The team as configured is just really awful and the RESULTS are backing that opinion.


Note that I'm in the "I love JO and don't want him to go" camp.
I just see the writing on the wall for the team, they are already a bottom 5-6 team as we speak, it's just that the first half of the season hid that fact.

CableKC
05-31-2007, 08:57 PM
If what Vescey says is true....this will prove to me how good of a Management team that the Pacers have.

Given the situation that the Lakers are in right now I really hope that TPTB puts a huge price tag on JONeal's forehead.

To me, that means that we start off with a Bynum+Kwame+Evans+19th Pick deal ( $10.5 mil in Expiring Contracts, a young Big Man Prospect and a 2007 1st round pick ) and work our way up. IMHO...that's a good starting point to start from and MINIMALLY what I would expect from any deal with the Lakers. I really think that this whole "Kobe fiasco" that unfolded in front of us yesterday has weakened the bargaining power of the Lakers. We all know that the Lakers Organization is in a position where they MUST make some significant move in the offseason that will help the LA Kobe's in the immediate future. At the very leats...this means that Bynum and the 19th pick just became expendable.

IMHO....how good of a negotiator DW will be viewed as ( thorugh my eyes ) will hinder on whether we get Odom ( who we can then keep OR deal to a 3rd team for other players ) in return or not. If we do not get back Odom ( the 2nd best player on the Lakers ) or worse, get back VladRad in return, or we end up with some deal that nets us the 2007 and 2009 1st round picks....then I will be disappointed. The way that I look at it is that Odom is the most valuable trading asset on the Lakers...if we do not get that trading asset...then we come out on the short end of this deal. For those that think that Odom will hinder the development of Granger, Ike and Shawne....worst comes to worst....then we can ship him off to a 3rd team ( some team will really want a player like Odom ) while getting back the players that we can use ( maybe to the Celtics for the #5 and Green ).

One more thing....I REALLY hope that DW is "driving the Buss :laugh:" when it comes to negotiating with Buss. My confidence in Bird is not very high and I do not want Bird heading these negotiations....I am simply not comfortable with him handling anything major like this.

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:00 PM
There is no NEED to trade JO just yet. Better offers will come along, I am CERTAIN of that.

If we trade him for crap right now, we will be PRAYING for 27 wins.

You guys have no clue how bad this can get.

Jermaniac
05-31-2007, 09:03 PM
Next season we are aiming to suck so we can get the 1 pick and get Eric Gordon.

Acie Law (Lakers Pick)-Eric Gordon-Danny-Ike-Bynum

OHH BOY

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:03 PM
If what Vescey says is true....this will prove to me how good of a Management team that the Pacers have.

Given the situation that the Lakers are in right now I really hope that TPTB puts a huge price tag on JONeal's forehead.

To me, that means that we start off with a Bynum+Kwame+Evans+19th Pick deal ( $10.5 mil in Expiring Contracts, a young Big Man Prospect and a 2007 1st round pick ) and work our way up. IMHO...that's a good starting point to start from and MINIMALLY what I would expect from any deal with the Lakers. I really think that this whole "Kobe fiasco" that unfolded in front of us yesterday has weakened the bargaining power of the Lakers. We all know that the Lakers Organization is in a position where they MUST make some significant move in the offseason that will help the LA Kobe's in the immediate future. At the very leats...this means that Bynum and the 19th pick just became expendable.

IMHO....how good of a negotiator DW will be viewed as ( thorugh my eyes ) will hinder on whether we get Odom ( who we can then keep OR deal to a 3rd team for other players ) in return or not. If we do not get back Odom ( the 2nd best player on the Lakers ) or worse, get back VladRad in return, or we end up with some deal that nets us the 2007 and 2009 1st round picks....then I will be disappointed. The way that I look at it is that Odom is the most valuable trading asset on the Lakers...if we do not get that trading asset...then we come out on the short end of this deal. For those that think that Odom will hinder the development of Granger, Ike and Shawne....worst comes to worst....then we can ship him off to a 3rd team ( some team will really want a player like Odom ) while getting back the players that we can use ( maybe to the Celtics for the #5 and Green ).

One more thing....I REALLY hope that DW is "driving the Buss :laugh:" when it comes to negotiating with Buss. My confidence in Bird is not very high and I do not want Bird heading these negotiations....I am simply not comfortable with him handling anything major like this.

QFT

If we get raped from a position of power, I won't be able to see straight I'll be so angry.

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:03 PM
Next season we are aiming to suck so we can get the 1 pick and get Eric Gordon.

Acie Law (Lakers Pick)-Eric Gordon-Danny-Ike-Bynum

OHH BOY

Law will not fall to #19.

NapTonius Monk
05-31-2007, 09:05 PM
I bet we wouldn't even recognize Tinsley in LA. I think his biggest problem was Carlisle...injuries aside. I definitely think Farmar has to be the filler. Heck, we have about 6 backup point guards. Tag one of them along with the deal.

Speed
05-31-2007, 09:08 PM
There is no NEED to trade JO just yet. Better offers will come along, I am CERTAIN of that.

If we trade him for crap right now, we will be PRAYING for 27 wins.

You guys have no clue how bad this can get.


I'm okay with 27 wins on a young developing team, I like that much better than 35 from a team you feel like is pretty much maxed out.

ABADays
05-31-2007, 09:09 PM
Shade - you are a Colts fan. Tell me - what is the difference between trading JO to LA for potential and the Colts move not to resign James. I would just be interested in your perception.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 09:14 PM
Shade - you are a Colts fan. Tell me - what is the difference between trading JO to LA for potential and the Colts move not to resign James. I would just be interested in your perception.

Probably this little fellow name Peyton Manning oh and competent management.

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:17 PM
Shade - you are a Colts fan. Tell me - what is the difference between trading JO to LA for potential and the Colts move not to resign James. I would just be interested in your perception.

The Colts knew they would be able to adequately replace Edge in the draft, because good running backs are abundant in the NFL.

They were right.

pwee31
05-31-2007, 09:19 PM
I haven't really been sold on Bynum, BUT if it's a trade with the Lakers, I agree he has to be included WITH Odom AND Farmar or #19.

I honestly believe Tinsley will be traded with JO... no matter where he goes. That would leave the Pacers needing a PG as well as a shooter still.

You could have Farmar at PG, or draft a PG at #19.
You could draft a SG at #19.

Or you could go with the trade route again. By either having a 3rd team and shipping off Odom and maybe a filler from our team to get a PG, SG, or another pick

Or we could keep Odom and try to send someone from what's left of your roster and get something in return.

Kwame's contract could be huge! If we were trying to add a 3rd team, he could be moved for a nice piece for a team looking to cut cap (like the Cro for Quis deal)

Odom's contract is also up soon, only 2 years left.

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:28 PM
Quick question for all of those in favor of trading JO to the Lakers:

How the hell are we supposed to upgrade our backcourt then? Our most valuable trading piece will be getting moved for MORE frontcourt players. And if we send Tins as well, we'll be left with McLeod and Dunleavy as our starting backcourt. You may as well just shoot me now if that happens.

bambam
05-31-2007, 09:33 PM
Quick question for all of those in favor of trading JO to the Lakers:

How the hell are we supposed to upgrade our backcourt then? Our most valuable trading piece will be getting moved for MORE frontcourt players. And if we send Tins as well, we'll be left with McLeod and Dunleavy as our starting backcourt. You may as well just shoot me now if that happens.

Then where do you ship him to? so you do get the upgrade. Were not getting it in the draft w/o picks. Are going to have to send JO to Atlanta now, lol to get our picks

Unclebuck
05-31-2007, 09:34 PM
Quick question for all of those in favor of trading JO to the Lakers:

How the hell are we supposed to upgrade our backcourt then? Our most valuable trading piece will be getting moved for MORE frontcourt players. And if we send Tins as well, we'll be left with McLeod and Dunleavy as our starting backcourt. You may as well just shoot me now if that happens.



That is the best point you've made all day - very legitimate question. I've been saying for several months that if we trade JO we need to get starting caliber guards in return.

So I don't have a good answer for you. Maybe we could use the full MLE on Mo Williams

Young
05-31-2007, 09:35 PM
Quick question for all of those in favor of trading JO to the Lakers:

How the hell are we supposed to upgrade our backcourt then? Our most valuable trading piece will be getting moved for MORE frontcourt players. And if we send Tins as well, we'll be left with McLeod and Dunleavy as our starting backcourt. You may as well just shoot me now if that happens.

This team is not going to be perfect after one trade, we are re building. It's not about having all of your pieces fit together right now.

You build around your big man first. Bynum is that. Bynum, Granger, and Williams to start with.

We can always trade Lamar Odom (assuming we get him) for backcourt help. We mostly just need a shooting guard right now.

avoidingtheclowns
05-31-2007, 09:36 PM
Quick question for all of those in favor of trading JO to the Lakers:

How the hell are we supposed to upgrade our backcourt then? Our most valuable trading piece will be getting moved for MORE frontcourt players. And if we send Tins as well, we'll be left with McLeod and Dunleavy as our starting backcourt. You may as well just shoot me now if that happens.

well either the draft or signing FAs which without JO's contract will be easier (with odom and / or kwame's coming off soon too). you make the commitment to rebuild and the backcourt isn't as important as development on the court in general. the 08 draft will be loaded with PG prospects too. so you can play keith, quis and even lamar (if kept) could play some PG. but you'd now be focusing on development hardcore as opposed to not wasting the rest of JOs career.

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:37 PM
Then where do you ship him to? so you do get the upgrade. Were not getting it in the draft w/o picks. Are going to have to send JO to Atlanta now, lol to get our picks

That's kind of what I'm hoping for, actually. I think the Hawks would deal us the #3 for JO, and maybe we could work out a package to get the #11 as well.

I would MUCH rather do that deal than this one, even though I would like a good center back. But the backcourt is much more important right now.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 09:38 PM
That's kind of what I'm hoping for, actually. I think the Hawks would deal us the #3 for JO, and maybe we could work out a package to get the #11 as well.

I would MUCH rather do that deal than this one, even though I would like a good center back. But the backcourt is much more important right now.

I believe the only contract the Hawks have that gets close to JO is Joe Johnson and I don't think they are far enough under the cap to get him.

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:39 PM
well either the draft or signing FAs which without JO's contract will be easier (with odom and / or kwame's coming off soon too). you make the commitment to rebuild and the backcourt isn't as important as development on the court in general. the 08 draft will be loaded with PG prospects too. so you can play keith, quis and even lamar (if kept) could play some PG. but you'd now be focusing on development hardcore as opposed to not wasting the rest of JOs career.

Odom at PG?!?! That's even worse than playing Eddie Gill at SF. :suicide:

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:40 PM
I believe the only contract the Hawks have that gets close to JO is Joe Johnson and I don't think they are far enough under the cap to get him.

I would imagine they'd want to unload Speedy and Wright on us.

rel
05-31-2007, 09:41 PM
use the #19 to pick Derrick Byars (SG), Javaris Crittenton (PG) if he falls, or Rodney Stuckey (PG)

ABADays
05-31-2007, 09:42 PM
Apparently some Laker fans have caught word of this as well?!

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/vescey-oneal-to-la-within-a-few-weeks-t74982.html

I had to laugh reading that thread. Kwame for Artest and add JO to the mix - oh yeah, that would be fun!

Shade
05-31-2007, 09:44 PM
This works:

JO and Greene for Speedy, Wright, Lue, Salim, #3, and #11

Get Conley at #3 and the best SG on the board at #11.

The Hawks are about to sign some big-name European PG to start for them, so getting him and JO would presumably shore up both of their weaknesses.

Trader Joe
05-31-2007, 09:45 PM
This works:

JO for Speedy, Wright, Lue, #3, and #11

No offense Shade but the trade makes me want to vomit.

avoidingtheclowns
05-31-2007, 09:47 PM
Odom at PG?!?! That's even worse than playing Eddie Gill at SF. :suicide:

dude - my point is all of our problems do not have to be solved overnight. we have a lot of young talent to develop if this trade goes through

daniels: obviously a little more developed than the rest but still has plenty of room to grown

dunleavy: same as daniels, not a rookie contract but still needs to develop

granger: third year, has shown signs of brilliance and some moments that are underwhelming.

diogu: similar to granger in that some moments on offense he looks quite promising but seems to get lost certainly more often than granger.

williams: had some good moments needs more playing time.

bynum: young big, has tons of room to develop.

we don't absolutely have to get back a PG in this deal is my point. we're not going to be a great team so if we can use this to develop hardcore... we can worry about our next gen PG later.

bambam
05-31-2007, 09:47 PM
I believe the only contract the Hawks have that gets close to JO is Joe Johnson and I don't think they are far enough under the cap to get him.

This is what i came up with, to make the checker happy.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/showthread.php?p=555591#post555591

avoidingtheclowns
05-31-2007, 09:49 PM
No offense Shade but the trade makes me want to vomit.

ditto

Young
05-31-2007, 09:49 PM
This works:

JO and Greene for Speedy, Wright, Lue, Salim, #3, and #11

Get Conley at #3 and the best SG on the board at #11.

The Hawks are about to sign some big-name European PG to start for them, so getting him and JO would presumably shore up both of their weaknesses.

Take out the 11th pick and insert Josh Childress. Also replace Wright with Zaza.

Naptown_Seth
05-31-2007, 09:56 PM
Law will not fall to #19.Someone decent will if not Law. Not that I see the 19 as the deal maker, but I do think that while any draft is a crapshoot and this one isn't dramatically better than others, there are some choice additions that could be made with that pick. Law only goes before 19 if the pressure to take a guard is looming for someone. Guys like Cook or Fernandez are also in that 19 range. Gasol and Splitter too.

Shade, 27 wins vs 20 wins is a null difference. Neither are an improvement from last year so who cares. You aren't in the playoffs and you aren't better than the previous year. If it's 20 wins but less payroll and more future options then you are far better off than staying locked in and being one of the worst teams in the NBA.

I mean you say "it can get worse than 27 wins" as if that isn't already so awful that it no longer matters. 27-30 wins is not something that makes you keep a roster together.

If we were talking 40 wins vs 27 then okay, but we aren't. The team is ALREADY TERRIBLE. Not everyone has taken notice of that, or they are holding out hope that the new coach will solve everything.

I'm resigned to the fact that the team will likely be pretty rough most nights (as they already were). Honestly I don't want to see JO have to go through another 3 months like those last 3. I love him as a Pacer, but I'm not sure the Pacers can put him in a winning position any time soon.

As always I pray that I'm dead wrong.

himikey
05-31-2007, 10:06 PM
I don't think Diogu will ever be anything more than a 15 and 8 type guy. He's too small and not athletic enough.

That's what Jerry Krause said when he dealt Elton Brand to LA for Tyson Chandler. This is a rebuilding year, I say give Ike a go this year and see what he can do, then take another look in '08.

fwpacerfan
05-31-2007, 10:11 PM
Shade - you are a Colts fan. Tell me - what is the difference between trading JO to LA for potential and the Colts move not to resign James. I would just be interested in your perception.


I'm not Shade but I am a huge Colts fan and I agreed with not resigning James. RB's in the NFL start wearing out in their late 20's and to sign James to a long term deal that would take up huge cap space and not allow the team to sign other positions wouldn't be fiscally sound. Especially since he was starting on the downside of career.

The JO situation is similar in that this team does not need to pay around 60 million dollars for a player who is not able to get this team where it needs to get to. With his injury proneness and the fact he is almost 30 JO is definitely not worthy of top 5 money, which he is due to get. JO still has several good years in him but he will be in his early to mid 30's by the time the Pacers are able to realistically compete for a title.

Hicks
05-31-2007, 10:11 PM
We have a trade proposal forum. I've seen a ton (non rumored) trades in this thread alone. Please put them where they belong. Thanks.

Naptown_Seth
05-31-2007, 10:20 PM
Mal, I understand your issue, but I think in the context of this discussion the proposals mostly have been related pretty directly to what people think of the rumored trade. The point seems to usually be "I don't like this because I think this other option is better."

It doesn't seem quite like the wide-open random fantasy proposals that normally clog and ruin regular discussion. Normally those bug me quite a bit but I haven't been put off by anything in this thread.

Frank Slade
05-31-2007, 10:34 PM
Really just perhaps a regurgatation of Vecsey's column or perhaps from a similar source, I assume this was already posted or mentioned, but it appears not....



Sam Smith
On Pro Basketball
May 31, 2007
.......
It's pretty clear from Bryant's comments regarding Jackson that the Lakers will try to make a big move to accommodate him. There has been talk of Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudemire or Jermaine O'Neal. O'Neal seems the most likely possibility because the Suns aren't about to trade within the division, even if they were to deal Stoudemire.Some NBA insiders believe the Pacers will try to deal O'Neal this summer.

There have been some informal talks, with the sticking point the inclusion of young Lakers center Andrew Bynum. The Pacers want him as well as Lamar Odom and want to get rid of Jamaal Tinsley.

But the Knicks really want O'Neal to pair with Eddy Curry and have some pieces to offer in Channing Frye and David Lee. It's not enough, but they'll keep at it.

So it's no sure thing the Lakers can pull off a big deal, and even if they can get someone like The Other O'Neal, it's hardly a guarantee of playoff success in the loaded Western Conference. Jackson's contract expires after next season and he has yet to accept an extension. With another first-round ouster and Bryant then a year away from being able to opt out, the Lakers then could have no choice but to look for the best offer for Bryant....... cont'd
Chicago Tribune (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/cs-070530smith,1,4016385.column?page=2&coll=cs-home-headlines)

wjs
05-31-2007, 10:37 PM
Just wondering whether we could move Odom to the Celtics for Gerald Green + filler? The filler could be a bad contract (Wally). Would they do that, or is Green untouchable? Or would we need to add something (e.g., Daniels or #19)? Could we expand the trade to get Delonte West?

I'd consider a new team with young potential stars Bynum and Green, together with Granger, Williams, Ike, Farmar (and maybe West) a good start on rebuilding, to say the least.

All that assumes, of course, an LA deal that brings Bynum and Odom + Farmar + the #19 for JO and Tins plus whatever.

pwee31
05-31-2007, 10:38 PM
This team is not going to be perfect after one trade, we are re building. It's not about having all of your pieces fit together right now.

You build around your big man first. Bynum is that. Bynum, Granger, and Williams to start with.

We can always trade Lamar Odom (assuming we get him) for backcourt help. We mostly just need a shooting guard right now.

Thank You! I'll admit that when this trade popped up awhile back in the trade proposal forum, I was not the least bit excited, but after these recent talks, I understand I wasn't excited b/c the team wasn't better instantly.

Now that I look at it in full rebuilding mode... I understand.

One trade isn't going to improve this team. Even if you look at the Atlanta/Boston deals... we're still taking a gamble on how talent will turn out.

Gerald Green: I love his game, he's explosive, has range, and can flat out jump. He's showed signs that he could be awesome, but he's also showed the inconsistency

Pick #5: Nice pick to have in what looks to be a deep draft. I'm guessing we're hoping for Conley or Brewer here, but if we have Green, then do we really need Brewer? One should be there, and both seem to be extremely talented players. Will that transfer over to the NBA ranks? It may or it may not.. it's a chance. We then turn to Ike and hope that he can produce down low, or draft a PF there, hoping the same. Either way we're taking a gamble on players HOPING they will pan out, there's no guarentee

#3 and #11: We would then have our choice of either Conley or Brewer, and we have another lottery pick to fill a need as well. Once again will those picks pan out? We're hoping so, but it's always a gamble. Do we take Brewer at #3 and Law/Crittenton at #11? Conley at #3 and a SG/PF at #11 and hope they pan out? We don't know... they're seem to be great options, but who knows.

Then there's that whole the Celtics and Hawks have to agree to it!! You don't think the Celtics realize what they have in Green with an aging and unhappy Pierce in front of him. JO would be a nice addition, but he's injury prone, aging, and you have a pretty good PF yourself in Jefferson.

The Hawks are going to trade #3 AND #11 for the same JO mentioned above? No, they don't have that PF on there team, but there main concern has been PG play. You're in position to make up for recent drafts and get the best PG coming out, PLUS you can address your PF needs at #11, or vice versa. You can take the best PF at #3 (there's plenty) and you can still get a solid PG at 11. Instead you use to bring in a big contract to fill one of those needs.

With the Lakers, you can bring in a proven player in Odom that can step right in and be a replacement in the role of oft. injured PF, except with better versatility. You ALSO add a 19 year old 7'0 tall Center, who would be a gamble like those other unproven players on other teams or in the draft, except he's 7'0 tall and probably younger then a few. You throw in the fact that you can get a PG/SG with #19, and that's like getting Odom and 2 1st round picks. One being 7'0 TALL, and the other filling one of your needs. On top of THAT there's a solid chance you can unload a huge salary WITH JO's, and have some nice felxibility in the next couple of years.

If that doesn't ice the cake, there's that whole thing about the Lakers HAVING to make a move or risk losing their franchise player, and we just so happen to be rumored in the whole ordeal! The Celtics and Hawks aren't in that position, and there's nothing anywhere suggesting they would give up what we're asking for JO. Should we listen to offers and try to up the price for JO? ABSOLUTELY b/c we don't HAVE to move him. But if we know we're going in rebulding mode and need to move JO to do that....... why not milk it while we can before his value goes down more (which it will) or another team steps up to the plate and we end up being the team HAVING to move our franchise player or else!

OH! And in case anyone forgot, this Bynum kid was capable of landing the Lakers the like of Kidd or Bibby, not saying we would/should want either of them, but teams seem to be high on him, and I'm guessing there's a good reason

bambam
05-31-2007, 10:42 PM
Isnt Telfair still out there. Wouldnt that be right up Birds alley, sign someone else that would make headlines off the court?

Kraft
05-31-2007, 10:44 PM
Am I the only one that would swap JO for Odom straight up if it were possible?

(Shhhh, don't tell.)

CableKC
05-31-2007, 11:03 PM
I think this trade is what Mal was worried about
Sorry...it took me forever to simply format that post. I have moved it.

CableKC
05-31-2007, 11:15 PM
There have been some informal talks, with the sticking point the inclusion of young Lakers center Andrew Bynum. The Pacers want him as well as Lamar Odom and want to get rid of Jamaal Tinsley.
After listening to many of the Kobe Interviews yesterday....he mentioned many of the rumored players that the Lakers were interested with over the previous season ( such as Boozer and Kidd ). I suspect that at the very least....Bynum was one of the players that was asked for and was adamently rejected by the Buss Family cuz they ( not Kobe or Phil ) wants to keep him.

Although Odom probably was involved....I am pretty sure that the stumbling blocks for many potential trades was Bynum. I also recall reading comments by Kobe and Phil that said that they don't want to wait for Bynum to develop. If Bynum is the sticking point for ANY Trade involving the Lakers...then Kobe needs to go back on the radio. The sticking point should be Odom...NOT Bynum....or more specifically... a player that will help them in the future ( Bynum ) as opposed to the a player that will help them in the present ( Odom ).

CableKC
05-31-2007, 11:20 PM
Just wondering whether we could move Odom to the Celtics for Gerald Green + filler? The filler could be a bad contract (Wally). Would they do that, or is Green untouchable? Or would we need to add something (e.g., Daniels or #19)? Could we expand the trade to get Delonte West?

I'd consider a new team with young potential stars Bynum and Green, together with Granger, Williams, Ike, Farmar (and maybe West) a good start on rebuilding, to say the least.

All that assumes, of course, an LA deal that brings Bynum and Odom + Farmar + the #19 for JO and Tins plus whatever.
I think we are asking too much if we expect to get West and Farmar. I have a trade suggestion involving the Celtics that may get us the best deal for rebuilding in the Trade Proposal forum. We can't get too greedy here...but we can get Green, Bynum and the 5th pick while clearing $20 mil in contracts by the start of the 2008-2009 season ( which should make Seth happy ) IF we play our cards right.

Y2J
05-31-2007, 11:31 PM
I don't think we could get all of that. I highly, highly, highly doubt the Celtics would give up #5 and Green for Odom and #19, although I could be wrong. But if we could manage it, it'd be one of the greatest rebuilding moves I've ever seen a team make.

Odom, Bynum, & Brown for O'Neal & Tinsley or Green, Szczerbiak, Ratliff, & #5 for O'Neal & Dunleavy. Both are fine by me.

indyman37
05-31-2007, 11:35 PM
ESPNEWS just broke the news of the reported "JO to LA" trade. They said basically everything the article said but whatever. And the Lakers owner supposedly just issued a statement saying that he had a discussion with Kobe this morning. But I am so confused it's not even funny...

pwee31
05-31-2007, 11:48 PM
ESPNEWS just broke the news of the reported "JO to LA" trade. They said basically everything the article said but whatever. And the Lakers owner supposedly just issued a statement saying that he had a discussion with Kobe this morning. But I am so confused it's not even funny...

Looks like our offseason is finally starting to begin

CableKC
05-31-2007, 11:54 PM
I don't think we could get all of that. I highly, highly, highly doubt the Celtics would give up #5 and Green for Odom and #19, although I could be wrong. But if we could manage it, it'd be one of the greatest rebuilding moves I've ever seen a team make.

Odom, Bynum, & Brown for O'Neal & Tinsley or Green, Szczerbiak, Ratliff, & #5 for O'Neal & Dunleavy. Both are fine by me.
Adding Dunleavy into the mix only makes it more unlikely. My preference is to keep things simple....don't force the Celtics into taking on Dunleavy or any bad contracts and we may get what we want in the end. It just makes things more complicated when we try to throw too much players in that another team will not want ( which I think was one of the reasons why we ended up with Murpleavy as opposed to Dunleavy or Murphy ).

I am entirely happy with a Bynum+Green+#5 pick+huge Expiring Contracts. Whether the Celtics would do it or not...I don't know.

NuffSaid
06-01-2007, 12:01 AM
ESPNEWS just broke the news of the reported "JO to LA" trade...

A snipit of the trade (rumor) is also featured on NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/news/412933.html).

May 31, 2007 1:31pm ET

"A New Bryant-O'Neal Duo May Form"

Peter Vecsey of the NEW YORK POST, "The Post has learned a championship-caliber collaborator should soon be coming to Kobe's - the city's and the team's - emotional rescue. How poetically peculiar that the player's last name is O'Neal, as in Jermaine, not Shaquille! Interestingly, the teammates-in-waiting were chosen four spots apart in the '96 draft: Kobe No. 13 by the then Charlotte Hornets; Jermaine No. 17 by the Blazers."

Seems there's some truth to the rumor after all. I don't know who, if anyone, has been packaged w/JO, but it's obvious this team is retooling. What a shame...

Young players, young new head coach w/little NBA experience. Expect to see the Pacers struggle for the next 2-4 yrs, folks. :(

CableKC
06-01-2007, 12:03 AM
ESPNEWS just broke the news of the reported "JO to LA" trade. They said basically everything the article said but whatever. And the Lakers owner supposedly just issued a statement saying that he had a discussion with Kobe this morning. But I am so confused it's not even funny...
Help me here......what players is Vescey/ESPNEWS talking about?

Also.....anyone else think that TPTB maybe jumping the gun a little? I know that the Lakers are in "disaster recovery" mode and must act before Kobe damages the Lakers anymore......but unless we get Odom/#19Kwame/Bynum out of this.......instead of some #19/Bynum/Kwame deal ( no Odom )...then I would much rather wait until Draft day to see what we else we can get. I would be happier with #5/Ratliff/Green deal then #19/Bynum/Kwame deal.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:05 AM
Help me here......what players is Vescey/ESPNEWS talking about?

Also.....anyone else think that TPTB maybe jumping the gun a little? I know that the Lakers are in "disaster recovery" mode...but unless we get Odom/#19Kwame/Bynum out of this.......but some #19/Bynum/Kwame deal ( no Odom )...then I would much rather wait until Draft day to see what we else we can get.
ESPNEWS isn't talking about the details of the trade...they just keep saying that the Pacers and Lakers have "laid groundwork" for a trade centered around JO.

Trader Joe
06-01-2007, 12:06 AM
ESPNEWS just broke the news of the reported "JO to LA" trade. .

That means its dead...

OnlyPacersLeft
06-01-2007, 12:09 AM
so why now kobe? why do you STILL want to be traded...phil jackson told you that jermaine O'neal is coming to the lakers...why do you want out?
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46315/20070531/bryant_again_says_he_wants_out/

Trader Joe
06-01-2007, 12:10 AM
so why now kobe? why do you STILL want to be traded...phil jackson told you that jermaine O'neal is coming to the lakers...why do you want out?
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46315/20070531/bryant_again_says_he_wants_out/

I posted this already. Bucher just explained it. No player can restore the trust Kobe felt the TPTB in Lakerland violated.

CableKC
06-01-2007, 12:10 AM
so why now kobe? why do you STILL want to be traded...phil jackson told you that jermaine O'neal is coming to the lakers...why do you want out?
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46315/20070531/bryant_again_says_he_wants_out/
I would laugh so hard if JONeal goes to LakerLand and then Kobe goes Artest on them and demands to be traded to the Knicks.

indyman37
06-01-2007, 12:10 AM
HAHA....Ric Bucher just said that the Lakers are going to make a blockbuster trade and THEN see if Kobe still wants to be traded. Yet he also says that Kobe wants to be traded no matter what the organization does.

maragin
06-01-2007, 12:11 AM
We have a trade proposal forum. I've seen a ton (non rumored) trades in this thread alone. Please put them where they belong. Thanks.

I think trades in the main forum should be allowed until preseason when we have real Pacers stuff to talk about.

For right now, this is what we have.

Just my opinion, of course.