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BlueNGold
05-28-2007, 01:59 AM
Here we are close to the end of the season once again. San Antonio and Detroit (the two teams allowing the least regular season points) are once again looking good while the two premier running teams (Dallas and Phoenix) easily crumbled. The other two teams left (Cleveland and Utah) are largely half court teams. I see defense, chemistry, a good half court game and positional players still being the answer. I think the Pacers need to keep this in mind as they make some critical personnel moves this summer.

I guess my question is: Has anything really changed?

Shade
05-28-2007, 02:32 AM
I guess my question is: Has anything really changed?

Absolutely.

Phoenix had regained HCA before being screwed over. And they may have taken Game 1 as well, if not for Nash's late-game injury.

Kstat
05-28-2007, 03:02 AM
Phoenix lost my sympathy in game 6, where they put on an awesome display of terrible defense. They became every negative stereotype about themselves.

The Suns lost the series because in an elimination game, they couldn't stop anybody. They had their chance and they shrunk.

Shade
05-28-2007, 03:40 AM
Phoenix lost my sympathy in game 6, where they put on an awesome display of terrible defense. They became every negative stereotype about themselves.

The Suns lost the series because in an elimination game, they couldn't stop anybody. They had their chance and they shrunk.

Perhaps, but that's why it's a 7-game series. They basically had one game stolen from them, and maybe lost another due to bad luck.

BlueNGold
05-29-2007, 06:03 AM
Absolutely.

Phoenix had regained HCA before being screwed over. And they may have taken Game 1 as well, if not for Nash's late-game injury.

IMO, everything else being equal, a team with Phoenix's athleticism and talent should beat San Antonio. The fact they lost 4-2 in the series and folded with their complete (well rested ;)) team in the elimination game tells me there is something more to it...even considering being short handed for one game. Certainly there is nothing wrong with Phoenix's offense. Perhaps this "something" is the style of play. I happen to think it's the defensive scheme which is closely related to their style of play.

Accordingly, a good defense requires defense on the perimeter and on the interior. The Spurs have Bowen on the perimeter and Duncan on the interior. These guys along with Parker are clearly traditional players in terms of the roles they play on their team. In fact, they are almost a throwback style...a style superior to this "new NBA" style that has delivered no championships to date....and may never do so.

Last year should have been enough proof. Miami with two big lumbering over the hill centers defeated the "new NBA" Dallas Mavericks...who folded like paper napkin in the first round this year to a team the old school Utah Jazz nearly swept.

Sure, Shaq is no longer a dominant force in the league, but this "new NBA" style is fools gold. The half court defensive teams will always rule this league...and the Pacers need to keep that in mind as they make personnel decisions this summer.

Oneal07
05-29-2007, 08:53 AM
It's all propaganda.. . .Anyone who knows basketball knows DEFENCE wins basketball games.. so in this case I'm not surprised of who's still playin and who's not!! anyone who expected Phoenix to beat San Antonio didn't really know anything about basketball. . .

Mr.ThunderMakeR
05-29-2007, 08:59 AM
I agree with everything in this thread not said by Shade (sorry Shade). I was starting to believe Phoenix might actually prove the run and gun style this season. But what I saw in the third quarter of Suns/Spurs Game 6 removed any and all suspicion. I believe that no matter how good an offense is, a good defense can interupt it. Thats sort of theoretical but thats what I saw.

beast23
05-29-2007, 04:32 PM
More importantly, how does this apply to the Pacers?

IMO, it is much easier to build a competitive team that utilizes defense and a half-court offense because non-athletic players are far more available.

So, quite frankly if I'm TPTB I would be looking for the type of players that I can get my hands on to make my team competitive as soon as possible, and that means once again the construction of a half-court, grind-it-out team. A team strong on fundamentals, but maybe short on athletes.

Even building a good half-court offense with decent defensive abilities, the Pacers are a good 3 years (at best) away from anything approaching a team that might be considered "in the hunt".

Try to get your hands on good athletes while also becoming more competitve, and it's probably going to take longer... just because the gifted athletic players seem to be in more demand than they were a few years ago. They are more difficult to acquire.

NPFII
05-29-2007, 05:30 PM
It's hard to win an NBA series playing 5 on 9 (5 players, 3 refs, 1 commish), when sometimes your 5 are not even the best that you have.


Imagine it the other way around -

- Duncan & Horry get suspended for game 5, while Diaw gets suspended for games 5,6. BTW - why was Duncan not suspended again?

- The refs dont put on a "no-call" clinic, which obviously favours the better defensive team, but actually call the games like they call them all season long. Even better - how about the refs just calling it evenly. How was Amare called for so many touch-fouls, while Bowen gets to hack Nash's hand each time he blows by him for a "steal"?

It's a lot more than good defense. It's the whole NBA organization helping out the wrong team, and the wrong style. Ratings are down, gray teams are prevailing, and the league's lost so many fans due to credibility that it's become boring.

There are 2 ways this pans out:
1. The league corrects its mistakes by changing rules, and refs start calling playoff games like regular season games, thus preferring the offensive teams over the defensive ones. Scores go back to normal, and ratings and popularity go back up.
2. Everything stays more or less the same. Ratings drop even more, crowds get discouraged, and fans stop buying tickets. Oh, and SA-Det will face eachother in the finals again and again and again as NBA basketball becomes "who can get away with more fouls on defense and flop better on offense". Oh, and regular season will become better basketball than playoffs...

Since the Pacers have about 2-3 years of sucking in the near future, there's enough time to evaluate your needs. If it's (1) get skills-talent. If it's (2) get acting-talent, or just move the losing franchise out of town while you still can...

Hicks
05-29-2007, 06:18 PM
Defense is required, but I'm still not convinced you have to be a top-5 defensive team to win a title. I'd like to see how a team with a top-15 defense and a top-10 or better offense does.

Unclebuck
05-29-2007, 06:28 PM
Defense is required, but I'm still not convinced you have to be a top-5 defensive team to win a title. I'd like to see how a team with a top-15 defense and a top-10 or better offense does.

Well the Heat won it last season and I don't think they were top 5 defensive team during the regular season. But their defense in the playoffs was very good.


I'll repeat what I've said for years. To win in the playoffs you need to be able to do a couple of things.

1) Score late in close games. Score when the defense is at its best, score when they know exactly what play you are running and score when the pressure is on (and when the shot clock is down). Scoring at this time has nothing to do with the type of offense you run, has nothing to do with whether you run or play very slow. You won't be able to run a lot of offense anyway. What you need at this time of the season and late in games is a dominate scorer, someone who you can easily get the ball to and someoene who can either score, get fouled or get an easy shot for your role players. Lebron james has done this in each of the first three games. He got an easy shot for Marshall, he got fouled in game 2 and he scored on a tough jumper late in game three.

2) You must be able to get stops late in games and you must be able to get the defensive rebound. I think this is where coaching comes in. The coach must teach his team good defensive habbits and have a system of play so when things get crazy the players can fall back on a system of defense


Those to me are the tangible things you need to win in the playoffs. The intangible things include experience, chemistry, good coaching.

Karmakillaz
05-29-2007, 06:39 PM
Defense is required, but I'm still not convinced you have to be a top-5 defensive team to win a title. I'd like to see how a team with a top-15 defense and a top-10 or better offense does.


Didn't Dallas have those, and was booted out by the Warriors of all teams.

CableKC
05-29-2007, 08:35 PM
Didn't Dallas have those, and was booted out by the Warriors of all teams.
Defense isn't everything....but as UB suggests.....it's clearly the deciding factoring on many teams.

Unfortunately, with a little bit of bad luck ( or more specifically the Kings beating the Clips at the worst possible time ), the Mavs drew the one team in the Playoffs that was perfectly built to beat them on a regular basis.

On top of that....they had the one Coach in the league that knew how to beat them. If the Mavs met the Clippers in the 1st round....things would probably turn out differently.

CableKC
05-29-2007, 08:38 PM
Well the Heat won it last season and I don't think they were top 5 defensive team during the regular season. But their defense in the playoffs was very good.


I'll repeat what I've said for years. To win in the playoffs you need to be able to do a couple of things.

1) Score late in close games. Score when the defense is at its best, score when they know exactly what play you are running and score when the pressure is on (and when the shot clock is down). Scoring at this time has nothing to do with the type of offense you run, has nothing to do with whether you run or play very slow. You won't be able to run a lot of offense anyway. What you need at this time of the season and late in games is a dominate scorer, someone who you can easily get the ball to and someoene who can either score, get fouled or get an easy shot for your role players. Lebron james has done this in each of the first three games. He got an easy shot for Marshall, he got fouled in game 2 and he scored on a tough jumper late in game three.

2) You must be able to get stops late in games and you must be able to get the defensive rebound. I think this is where coaching comes in. The coach must teach his team good defensive habbits and have a system of play so when things get crazy the players can fall back on a system of defense

Those to me are the tangible things you need to win in the playoffs. The intangible things include experience, chemistry, good coaching.
Unfortunately for us....these are the 2 tangible qualities that the Pistons and the Spurs possess.

DisplacedKnick
05-30-2007, 03:25 AM
Well the Heat won it last season and I don't think they were top 5 defensive team during the regular season. But their defense in the playoffs was very good.


I'll repeat what I've said for years. To win in the playoffs you need to be able to do a couple of things.

1) Score late in close games. Score when the defense is at its best, score when they know exactly what play you are running and score when the pressure is on (and when the shot clock is down). Scoring at this time has nothing to do with the type of offense you run, has nothing to do with whether you run or play very slow. You won't be able to run a lot of offense anyway. What you need at this time of the season and late in games is a dominate scorer, someone who you can easily get the ball to and someoene who can either score, get fouled or get an easy shot for your role players. Lebron james has done this in each of the first three games. He got an easy shot for Marshall, he got fouled in game 2 and he scored on a tough jumper late in game three.

2) You must be able to get stops late in games and you must be able to get the defensive rebound. I think this is where coaching comes in. The coach must teach his team good defensive habbits and have a system of play so when things get crazy the players can fall back on a system of defense


Those to me are the tangible things you need to win in the playoffs. The intangible things include experience, chemistry, good coaching.

Those & good guard play. You have to be able to control tempo and keep your TO's down.

granger
05-30-2007, 06:29 AM
It's hard to win an NBA series playing 5 on 9 (5 players, 3 refs, 1 commish), when sometimes your 5 are not even the best that you have.


Imagine it the other way around -

- Duncan & Horry get suspended for game 5, while Diaw gets suspended for games 5,6. BTW - why was Duncan not suspended again?

- The refs dont put on a "no-call" clinic, which obviously favours the better defensive team, but actually call the games like they call them all season long. Even better - how about the refs just calling it evenly. How was Amare called for so many touch-fouls, while Bowen gets to hack Nash's hand each time he blows by him for a "steal"?

It's a lot more than good defense. It's the whole NBA organization helping out the wrong team, and the wrong style. Ratings are down, gray teams are prevailing, and the league's lost so many fans due to credibility that it's become boring.

There are 2 ways this pans out:
1. The league corrects its mistakes by changing rules, and refs start calling playoff games like regular season games, thus preferring the offensive teams over the defensive ones. Scores go back to normal, and ratings and popularity go back up.
2. Everything stays more or less the same. Ratings drop even more, crowds get discouraged, and fans stop buying tickets. Oh, and SA-Det will face eachother in the finals again and again and again as NBA basketball becomes "who can get away with more fouls on defense and flop better on offense". Oh, and regular season will become better basketball than playoffs...

Since the Pacers have about 2-3 years of sucking in the near future, there's enough time to evaluate your needs. If it's (1) get skills-talent. If it's (2) get acting-talent, or just move the losing franchise out of town while you still can...

QFT

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