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Skaut_Ech
05-14-2007, 09:53 AM
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/177884.html

Trading Artest won't be easy

With teams afraid of the forward, the Kings might have to dump him for little in return.

By Scott Howard-Cooper - Bee Staff Writer
Published 12:00 am PDT Sunday, May 13, 2007

Begin by accepting that there will be no such thing as fair value in return. Low-ball offers will be common, if offers drip in at all. Most calls will be initiated rather than taken.


Just when the Kings thought living with Ron Artest was challenge enough, now comes the real difficulty, trying to get away from him, or at least get away from him without having to mow lawns and take out the trash for a month for whoever takes him off their hands.


Trading Artest has become a priority, if not the priority, within a Kings front office eager to change the roster and, in this case in particular, the culture of the splintered locker room. What basketball president Geoff Petrie and his famed patience will find, as he surely knows, is a mix of window shoppers and a few potentially serious buyers, but also the chance that moving forward will require dumping a talented starting small forward for a minimal return.


"It's getting to the point where you can hope to get some teams that are desperate that are not opposed to taking on that kind of player," said one executive, not wanting to be identified since he was talking about another team's player, yet noting that his team is not interested in Artest.
Meaning there is a likelihood that the Kings will have to swallow hard and take a fire-sale deal to move Artest.


"I would think they would be significant," the executive said of those chances.


There should be opportunities, though. Working in the Kings' favor, Artest is due to make $7.4 million in 2007-08, with the ability to declare himself a free agent afterward, and the same amount in 2008-09 -- an agreeable contract for someone who is 27 and three seasons removed from being named Defensive Player of the Year. He is young and talented, and he makes less than market value for a player with such a résumé.
Working against the Kings: He's Ron Artest.


It has usually been a buyer's market with Artest, only more so now after a season in which he frustrated teammates with bad decisions as a playmaker and a monopolization of the ball. Off the court, he pleaded no contest in May to a misdemeanor charge of inflicting corporal injury on his spouse and received additional negative coverage nationally after being cited in April for not feeding his dog, although no charges were filed in that case.


He has swung all the way back to getting in the way of his own potential greatness, seemingly wasting the good will that had been built from the second half of 2005-06, when he was traded from Indiana for Peja Stojakovic and helped spark the Kings into the playoffs. Once the list of transgressions expanded to include the legal system, organizations that might have had an interest in trying to get him on the cheap had the concern of selling their fan base on a player who had been sentenced to a work release program, 100 hours of community service and anger management courses for striking his wife.


Said a member of one front office -- requesting anonymity since he was criticizing a player not on his team -- when asked whether many teams will be willing to take on Artest and his reputation: "I just can't see it happening. I don't see how. Especially not now."


Good thing for the Kings other teams have their own problems to address. Los Angeles Lakers


Going pedal to the metal, after failing to reach the second round or the playoffs at all for the third time in as many years, isn't just about adding a star to ride shotgun to Kobe Bryant. While that is the obvious part of it, putting them in the middle of any discussion for Kevin Garnett or Jermaine O'Neal, the Lakers on the whole are pushing hard to win now and deal with potential complications later.


The Lakers could offer Kwame Brown in a match of similar salaries. The Kings would inherit the frustration of an enigmatic player unable to grasp his considerable potential, but also the benefit of being able to clear cap space a year earlier than with Artest if Brown did not work out. And if Brown did work out, they would have the inside track on re-signing a talented young center.


The Lakers also could offer Luke Walton in a sign-and-trade, packaged with another, lesser salary (Sasha Vujacic, Maurice Evans, Brian Cook). Artest has superior skills. But Walton has become a good complementary weapon, a smart player who moves the ball, and plugs in to the same spot at small forward. Los Angeles Clippers


Artest for Corey Maggette had been discussed last season. But the serious knee injury that could keep point guard Shaun Livingston out all 2007-08 means a greater likelihood of the Clippers pursuing Mike Bibby. Miami Heat
Much like the Lakers, the Heat has a very strong coach, Pat Riley, and a ticking clock. Miami needs to make something happen before it's Dwyane Wade against the world.


What the Heat does not have is attractive trade pieces. Antoine Walker has four seasons left on a bad contract, although the final two are believed to be non-guaranteed and tied to performance. Jason Williams has one season remaining at a salary similar to Artest's, making Williams moveable. Jason Kapono, after leading the league in three-point percentage, is a free agent and can be used in a sign-and-trade and perhaps packaged with the expiring contract of Michael Doleac or Dorell Wright to make the money match as required.

It all leaves the Kings bargaining from a position of weakness. They have something just in that, though.


The chance to bargain at all.

CableKC
05-14-2007, 09:55 AM
Who is this "Ron Artest" that you speak of? :hmm:

CableKC
05-14-2007, 09:58 AM
If the Lakers really wanted to take the cheap route for a "difference maker" player on the team....and offered Kwame for Artest....if I were the Kings...I would do it in a second.

But I doubt that the Kings would even consider moving Artest to a division rival.

Unclebuck
05-14-2007, 09:59 AM
I read the article and now that Rick is gone, the Pacers should try and get Ron.

















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Just kidding

Slick Pinkham
05-14-2007, 10:02 AM
shocking.



just shocking.





In other news, it is hot in Florida today, the sun came up in the East, and the Jazz just got another rebound.

Ransom
05-14-2007, 10:10 AM
Wasn't it a Sacramento Bee article (acting on a rumor) that sparked Artest's request for a trade?

Hicks
05-14-2007, 10:10 AM
I think Miami is one of the best bets. I'd say the Lakers too, though as CableKC said, they're a division rival, so I'm not sure how willing they will be to do that.

Unclebuck
05-14-2007, 10:15 AM
I think I was the first one who suggested that Ron should be traded every year and I think that is a great idea. The only thing I'll add is that he needs to be traded in midseason because if he's there for a whole season starting with training camp he'll ruin chemistry. So trade him every December or January and he'll be an allstar and all defensive team player

Skaut_Ech
05-14-2007, 10:17 AM
Aw, come on. I figured by now someone would have put a sincere post about how we should give him another chance...new coach, new environment.

And you DID give me a heat attack UB. I froze for at least 15 seconds,blinking uncomprehendingly, before it dawned on me to scroll down.

TripleThreat
05-14-2007, 10:17 AM
Maybe they can trade him to the Hornets for Peja. The Kings need an perimeter threat.

:D

MagicRat
05-14-2007, 10:32 AM
I found this on a Kings board. Some of the fans want to keep him, apparently.........

--------------------------------------------------------------------
When the Kings acquired Ron Artest from the Indiana Pacers in January of 2006, many Kings fans had no idea what they were getting. Most knew he was a good defender but beyond that most fans had no idea. Who knew he was as good an all around player as he is and who knew the troubles he would cause.

Those troubles have led to a summer filled with rumors about Ron being traded. The common thought was that a new coach and the Maloofs would not be able to coexist with Ron Artest.

Ron Artest is the most controversial player in the Kings NBA history. His on-court problems have been well publicized. Many have asked why don't the Sacramento Kings just get rid of the guy. He is not worth the trouble. Surely they could get something for him.

Why do his coaches like him so much. What do they know that most of the national media does not know. Two things, Ron is a fanatical worker and he is also a very talented NBA basketball player. Artest is simply too good to get rid of.

What makes a player work as hard as Ron? Where does that desire come from? One gets the sense that Ron wished the NBA season lasted 12 months a year and that they played a game every night and had a three hour hard practice each and every morning. Ron Artest has a desire to be a great basketball player.

I don't know about other Kings fans, but this Kings fan wishes there were 11 other players on the Kings roster just like Ron. If every player had his work ethic, his desire, his basketball ability the Kings would not ever lose in the first round of the playoffs again.

The sad thing is Ron Artest should be well known for his play on the court, for his talent, for his tenacious defense, but instead he is best known for his antics. This should upset Artest to no end. Hopefully he is determined to change his public persona. He should be the player the NBA markets as everything good in todays NBA. He should be an example for kids about the value of hard work and the ability to overcome adversity.

The NBA would be a much better league if every player played as hard as Ron and if every player wanted to win as badly as Ron does.

I'll never forget a scene from the Kings - Dallas Mavs game last year at Arco Arena. The Kings were leading by 9 points with just over 2 minutes to play in the game. The Mavs had just scored five straight points so the Kings called a timeout and in the huddle Ron Artest is screaming at his teammates. As his teammates tried to calm Ron down he just kept saying I want to kill them, kill them. kill them. The fans who were seated near the bench looked a little bit scared. I had a huge smile on my face, I wish all 12 players had the same attitude.

Will Ron mature, will he learn to control his temper, I say yes, I say he is worth the trouble, worth the gamble. People seem to forget Ron Artest is still only 27 years old.

The best way to control Artest is to give him more responsibility, more influence on the team, more leadership opportunities. Put more on his shoulders. Bring him into the inner circle of the team. Use him as an example of what Kings basketball is all about.

Could all this blow up, could Artest's temper ruin his career and the Kings franchise. Yes it could, however he is too good a player, too good a person to give up on. There is not a false bone in Ron's body, he does not do anything to try an get publicity, he is in many ways the anti-Rodman. Ron wants to do the right thing, he wants to play by the rules but he loses his temper from time to time and can't help himself. Dennis Rodman was all about self promotion.

Ron's offensive game has improved each and every summer. This year he is much quicker and a much better ball handler. In the preseason he was regularly beating his man off the dribble again and again, even Kevin Garnett had trouble defending Artest.

Artest's greatest benefit to the Kings is not his defense, not his offense, not his rebounding or any of that. It is the energy, the toughness both mentally and physically that he brings. Artest brings a swagger and a level of confidence that propels his teammates to do things they otherwise would not or could not do. Look at how much trouble most young players have excelling in the playoffs, Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia and young players throughout the whole NBA struggle in the playoffs, but not Ron. I get the sense that Ron feels most at home in the playoffs because that is the only time the other players are playing as hard as he is.

Ron Artest is the Kings best creator, he makes a greater number of good passes, he creates more offense for others than any other player on the team. When the shoot clock winds down the ball often is on Ron's hands and he often can make a play.

The more you see Ron play the more you like him. Really the only way to truly appreciate his basketball playing ability is to see him in person, you cannot appreciate his overall game on TV. As Tom Tolbert said in the playoff series against the Spurs last season the more you see Ron the more you like him.

Sean Elliot says that no one does a better job of defending Manu Ginobili one-on-one than Ron Artest.

Like it or not, like Ron or not, but the Kings will only go as far as Ron can take them.

The Kings need Ron Artest, he is the most important player on the team, maybe not the best or the most valuable, but he is the most important.

Will he have a perfect season, not get any flagrant fouls, not get any technicals, not lose control and throw things, no of course not. But I do predict a much more in control player in every aspect of his game.

Perhaps I am being selfish, I admit I love the way Ron plays, I love watching him play basketball. Next time you get a chance to see a Kings game in person watch Ron for a part of the game exclusively and you'll see what I am talking about. He is fun to watch.

No Ron Artest should not be traded he is the heart and soul of this team, and yes he is worth the trouble.

JayRedd
05-14-2007, 10:53 AM
I think I was the first one who suggested that Ron should be traded every year and I think that is a great idea. The only thing I'll add is that he needs to be traded in midseason because if he's there for a whole season starting with training camp he'll ruin chemistry. So trade him every December or January and he'll be an allstar and all defensive team player

Agreed. He can be like the NBA's Roger Clemens.

Hicks
05-14-2007, 11:15 AM
Just give him a 1-year contract every year.

Haggard
05-14-2007, 11:24 AM
Aw, come on. I figured by now someone would have put a sincere post about how we should give him another chance...new coach, new environment.

And you DID give me a heat attack UB. I froze for at least 15 seconds,blinking uncomprehendingly, before it dawned on me to scroll down.


Why not, the Pacers have a habbit of trading ex-players back to the team......:hmm:

ChicagoJ
05-14-2007, 11:49 AM
I think Miami is one of the best bets. I'd say the Lakers too, though as CableKC said, they're a division rival, so I'm not sure how willing they will be to do that.

I can't imagine Pat Riley touching Artest with a ten-foot pole. I know what he said a few years ago, but Pat knows the difference between a Gary Payton and an Antionne Walker and this guy...

Robobtowncolt
05-14-2007, 11:52 AM
I can't imagine Pat Riley touching Artest with a ten-foot pole. I know what he said a few years ago, but Pat knows the difference between a Gary Payton and an Antionne Walker and this guy...

I think you're underestimating what Pat Riley's ego tells him about himself every night.

Major Cold
05-14-2007, 12:07 PM
Minnesota should go after him. And then package him and Garnett to the LA Lakers after Artest does what he did to to class act franchises.

Naptown_Seth
05-14-2007, 12:12 PM
Agreed. He can be like the NBA's Roger Clemens.
I understand the thinking, but honestly remember how it got for Rodman. Eventually he just ramped up his antics till they took effect even quicker than normal. With Ron it would stop taking even 1 year to disrupt...and honestly he didn't wait more than 2 months in either of his final 2 seasons with Indy.

Back then many of us thought the brawl was isolated, but now we see that he gets an itch and it must be scratched every time.

Besides, the issue is not his antics, the issue is his STYLE OF PLAY. It wasn't his trade request that made me give up on him, it was the reasoning for it. He sounded selfish and the type of play he wanted to pursue (and was trying to do in Indy) was selfish. It was about "give ME the ball and look out".

Well that type of play sucks. That's where he's lost the Kings, and that's where any future teams have to watch out because it's not going away. He has zero desire to rehab his shot selection or isolation play, zero desire to work a system that enhances the offense around him.

That's where he stopped being an AS IMO and stopped being underpaid.



Look, I've defended Ron's off-court rep previously to a degree at least (I certainly won't dispute the court's ruling on the domestic dispute however), as well as Jack, Tins, etc.

Some people think I just forgive them all of this stuff, but actually I don't. I do expect moral behavior from players, but at the same time I just keep that in context with all our other sports icon heros. Living it up, even mixing it up at times, that's not out of character or even new. When Billy Martin got in a drunken fight it didn't make news or it came across as quaint in a "boys will be boys" sort of way. The world wasn't as uptight about that stuff back then.


BUT, those guys also knew their place on the team and that they needed teammates as much as the next guy if they were going to win. That's where a guy like Jack teeters sometimes (when he stands and jaws at refs or dominates the ball) and where Ron is completely out of touch.

You can be sure that if I'm avoiding a player it's not with a quick trigger or emotionally based. Ron has jumped the shark as a player IMO. His goals are not the team's goals.

Naptown_Seth
05-14-2007, 12:14 PM
I think you're underestimating what Pat Riley's ego tells him about himself every night.
Nice. :laugh:

grace
05-14-2007, 12:14 PM
Will Ron mature, will he learn to control his temper, I say yes, I say he is worth the trouble, worth the gamble. People seem to forget Ron Artest is still only 27 years old.

I got this far and decided not to waste my time any longer. Unless someone is going to force feed Ron his meds and then hog tie him to a chair in a psychiatrist's office he's not going to change and he's not worth the trouble. How long would it take to fix 27 years of screwing up?

grace
05-14-2007, 12:17 PM
I think you're underestimating what Pat Riley's ego tells him about himself every night.

Who's going to coach the team when Pat decides he has better things to do? Pat's ego better realize that Ron Rothstein is going to want no part of Ron Artest.

Shade
05-14-2007, 12:37 PM
Slightly OT:

If the Kings are having a fire sale, they'll probably want to move Bibby as well. Should we go after him?

Los Angeles
05-14-2007, 12:44 PM
Slightly OT:

If the Kings are having a fire sale, they'll probably want to move Bibby as well. Should we go after him?

Yes.

Arcadian
05-14-2007, 01:04 PM
My dad said yesterday that we should have traded JO instead of Ron. I just laughed and told him Ron was just convicted of beating his wife.

Anthem
05-14-2007, 01:16 PM
If the Kings are having a fire sale, they'll probably want to move Bibby as well. Should we go after him?
Heck yes.

There was a rumor at the deadline that Bibby could be had for Foster and Tinsley. Wish we'd at least tried it.

Robobtowncolt
05-14-2007, 01:19 PM
Bibby, Dunleavy, and Murphy would be fun to watch on defense.

MagicRat
05-14-2007, 01:20 PM
Bibby, Dunleavy, and Murphy would be fun to watch on defense.

Since you don't watch the NBA that shouldn't be a problem for you.....

Robobtowncolt
05-14-2007, 01:23 PM
Since you don't watch the NBA that shouldn't be a problem for you.....

I watched the 2nd half of the GS/Utah game last night! I'm just a big man coach short of being an expert!

Mr.ThunderMakeR
05-14-2007, 01:37 PM
Funny thing is the Kings fans havent even went through half the crap we did yet. And there acting like hes already destroyed the franchise. Just wait til next season when their management has to do a SI cover with him to show they support him after not being able to trade him away this summer.

beast23
05-14-2007, 01:55 PM
How long would it take to fix 27 years of screwing up?
About as long as it would take to fit him with a pair of underwear that had a taser built into them with a remote control in the hands of David Stern.

Ron gets a little out of control, zap him. Ron goes up in the crowd, then the smell of fried 'nads would permeate the arena.

Of course a lot of fans might take a certain degree of delight if Ron's persperation caused a short-circuit.

Sorry, I'm just in a sadistic sort of mood.

Naptown_Seth
05-14-2007, 02:04 PM
Heck yes.

There was a rumor at the deadline that Bibby could be had for Foster and Tinsley. Wish we'd at least tried it.
I used to think no because Bibby is a similar stats guy to Tinsley, but now I wonder. Bibby would likely be more motivated in a new spot. But man, Foster is an expensive price to pay.


Funny thing is the Kings fans havent even went through half the crap we did yet. And there acting like hes already destroyed the franchise. Just wait til next season when their management has to do a SI cover with him to show they support him after not being able to trade him away this summer.
So true. You think THIS is bad...:D

Doug
05-14-2007, 02:17 PM
But I doubt that the Kings would even consider moving Artest to a division rival.

A division rival is the *perfect* place to send Ron.

He'll destroy them.

ChicagoJ
05-14-2007, 03:25 PM
What Doug said. I always wish we could've traded Ron to the Pistons.

*That* move worked out well for Jerry Krause, sending Ron to Indy and (eventually) creating a post-Pistons vacancy in the East the Bulls might be able to fill in another year or two.

Los Angeles
05-14-2007, 03:52 PM
I used to think no because Bibby is a similar stats guy to Tinsley, but now I wonder. Bibby would likely be more motivated in a new spot. But man, Foster is an expensive price to pay.


The only stat that really matters is the games played/season.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_bibby/career_stats.html

In Bibby's 9 seasons in the NBA, he has played 80+ games 7 times and started every single game. One of the years he didn't was his rookie year (88/89). He played in and started 50 games that season.

Dear god, If there was an important stat in the whole world, this is the one that matters most to me.

Provided our roster doesn't change too much, I think our players would benefit greatly in the stability, toughness and and *true* veteran leadership that Bibby provides.

Good lord, I love that guy, even in spite of his shortcomings on the floor.

CableKC
05-14-2007, 05:22 PM
I used to think no because Bibby is a similar stats guy to Tinsley, but now I wonder. Bibby would likely be more motivated in a new spot. But man, Foster is an expensive price to pay.
I think that if TPTB decide that Tinsley must be moved at all costs.....I think that he would likely be packaged with JONeal, Granger or Foster. If it costs us Foster to move Tisnley.....rather then JONeal or Granger....I would gladly accept that cost....especially if it meant getting Bibby.... who IMHO is a much better scorer then Tinsley..... ( which I doubt that the Kings would do anyway ).

hoopsforlife
05-14-2007, 05:24 PM
My dad said yesterday that we should have traded JO instead of Ron. I just laughed and told him Ron was just convicted of beating his wife.

As opposed to JO beating no one?

Arcadian
05-14-2007, 05:28 PM
My point wasn't that we should keep JO, but that Ron definately needed to go and should stay gone.

grace
05-14-2007, 05:33 PM
About as long as it would take to fit him with a pair of underwear that had a taser built into them with a remote control in the hands of David Stern.

Ron gets a little out of control, zap him. Ron goes up in the crowd, then the smell of fried 'nads would permeate the arena.

Of course a lot of fans might take a certain degree of delight if Ron's persperation caused a short-circuit.


http://www.mustangmods.com/data/10900/brilliant.jpg
I vote the Simons get rid of Donnie and Larry to hire you to run the team.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
05-14-2007, 09:38 PM
What Doug said. I always wish we could've traded Ron to the Pistons.

*That* move worked out well for Jerry Krause, sending Ron to Indy and (eventually) creating a post-Pistons vacancy in the East the Bulls might be able to fill in another year or two.With our luck, that plan would probably backfire and the Pistons would end up dominating the East for another decade and win like 6 titles in a row.


I think that if TPTB decide that Tinsley must be moved at all costs.....I think that he would likely be packaged with JONeal, Granger or Foster. If it costs us Foster to move Tisnley.....rather then JONeal or Granger....I would gladly accept that cost....especially if it meant getting Bibby.... who IMHO is a much better scorer then Tinsley..... ( which I doubt that the Kings would do anyway ).I would hate to see Foster go but could accept it, but dont punish the guy by sending him to play with Artest again, he doesnt deserve that. Actually noone deserves that except for...well Tinsley.

CableKC
05-15-2007, 02:51 AM
I would hate to see Foster go but could accept it, but dont punish the guy by sending him to play with Artest again, he doesnt deserve that. Actually noone deserves that except for...well Tinsley.
Foster's a good guy......he can take one for the team...and the fans.:rolleyes:

Regardless....the Kings wouldn't move him here....Bibby will go to some other team that actually has actual trading assets that a team wants :banghead:

Will Galen
05-15-2007, 03:55 AM
Say we trade JO and Tinsley to the Lakers for Odom, Bynum, Radmanovic, and either their 19th pick in the first round, or Farmar. Then the Lakers trade Brown for Artest.

The thought makes me laugh even though that would be a scary Laker team.

Naptown_Seth
05-15-2007, 04:40 AM
The only stat that really matters is the games played/season.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/mike_bibby/career_stats.html

In Bibby's 9 seasons in the NBA, he has played 80+ games 7 times and started every single game. One of the years he didn't was his rookie year (88/89). He played in and started 50 games that season.

Dear god, If there was an important stat in the whole world, this is the one that matters most to me.

Provided our roster doesn't change too much, I think our players would benefit greatly in the stability, toughness and and *true* veteran leadership that Bibby provides.

Good lord, I love that guy, even in spite of his shortcomings on the floor.
That's true, though I thought the "injury prone" with him was always played up a bit. He was pretty solid his first 3 years, including under Rick. His games missed that year were doghouse bench time and then family crisis. Then you had 2 years of nagging issues.

This year he was out there more but at the cost of any passion at all.

Bibby at least will give you his best effort 75+ games a year every year it would seem. Stability is something I've harped on regarding the trade but it certainly applies to injuries too (ahem, looking at you Quis).


Teams are always better when they can play a bunch of games together and with reliable roles.