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View Full Version : Kravitz's article uses Seth's post ?



Elgin56
05-14-2007, 09:29 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070514/COLUMNISTS01/705140357/1004/SPORTS





Any doubt that ole Bob doesn't lurk here for ideas for his column? His article in today's Star is a knock off of one of Seth's posts here on PD. Seth I would ask for some greenbacks from Kravitz the lurker.


http://www.pacersdigest.com/showpost.php?p=576033&postcount=797

Seth's post

Unclebuck
05-14-2007, 09:54 AM
I have much lower standards for IRL drivers. In fact I have no standards at all for them because I have zero interest in auto racing.

Mac_Daddy
05-14-2007, 09:57 AM
Do we know that Kravitz wrote this article yesterday? It is possible that he had been writing it for a few days.

I'm not saying his is or isn't plagirising. I'm just not sure how the stories run in the Star. Does it take a day or two to get things squared or do they just run it when he turns stuff in?

It could have been just the same train of thought.

Will Galen
05-14-2007, 10:00 AM
Do you know you can be sued for defamation for this post?

I don't normally read Kravitz because I don't like the way he writes. However after having read both his and Seth's posts I think he has a case against you.

One, he didn't steal Seth's post and claim it as his own. It appears he did what you claimed in your first sentence and got an idea for a column. That's not plagiarism.

If I was you I would change the title of your post and remove the word plagiarist.

Of course if Able see's it he will probably remove it and remove mine as well and tell me to leave the administrating to the administrators.

Elgin56
05-14-2007, 10:08 AM
Do you know you can be sued for defamation for this post?

I don't normally read Kravitz because I don't like the way he writes. However after having read both his and Seth's posts I think he has a case against you.

One, he didn't steal Seth's post and claim it as his own. It appears he did what you claimed in your first sentence and got an idea for a column. That's not plagiarism.

If I was you I would change the title of your post and remove the word plagiarist.

Of course if Able see's it he will probably remove it and remove mine as well and tell me to leave the administrating to the administrators.


Noted, however it is hard to deny that his article and Seth's post are one and the same.

Hicks
05-14-2007, 10:17 AM
I doubt an internet message board post is going to cause such actions, Will. This isn't a news website, it's a message board. If msnbc.com were posting an article saying what Elgin56 is saying, then yeah I could see something happening. But this is like saying if someone left a similar accusation in the "feedback" part of that article that someone will sue. Is it legally possible? I don't know. You're saying it is, so for the sake of this I'll consider it's possible. But I don't think it'll ever happen.

Bball
05-14-2007, 10:42 AM
No offense to Mr Kravitz but I wonder if more digging needed to be done? I go back to Barnhart's reply "How do you know he's not been tested?"

Unser denied any testing. BUT would Unser admit to it in the first place? And exactly what is done at the driver's physical... is blood tested? Is a drug screening part of the process?

Much like the Pacers, maybe the IRL tries to keep it's dirty laundry inhouse. The less said about a subject, regardless of what is happening behind the scenes, the better chance of the headlines going away. The problem the Pacers ran into was people who didn't have enough respect for the city, the team, the organization, or likely even themselves to bother using the opportunity afforded them by this 'protective blanket'. IOW, they rubbed all of our noses in it.

Yes, Unser's relapse pretty much did the same thing but it doesn't mean he isn't being tested. Kravitz appeared to have spoken for Unser in saying Unser would agree to testing every day. I wish he would've asked that question and would've liked to have heard Unser's answer. He could've given a non-answer but he might've given an enlightening answer or dodged it in a way that would've spoken volumes.

Also, Barnhart couldn't speak to specifics but what if a hypothetical question was posed? There are several that come to mind.

None of this is to defend Unser. I think Kravitz' point is valid. I'm just not sure enough digging was done to ascertain whether his point needed to be made. The comparison may not be what it seems. Perhaps Al Unser Jr isn't getting the kid glove treatment that it would appear on the surface.

With the Pacers we got to see bad behavior and disrespect on the bench and the court on display frequently. And got to read about transgressions on the heels of transgressions on the heels of a marketing campaign that was obviously devoid of any seeds of truth.

Big difference.

-Bball

LG33
05-14-2007, 10:43 AM
Naptown_Seth is Bob Kravitz; Bob Kravitz is Naptown_Seth; Einhorn is Finkel. Naptown_Seth is a man!? I made out with a man!?!

Fool
05-14-2007, 10:58 AM
Do you know you can be sued for defamation for this post?

I don't normally read Kravitz because I don't like the way he writes. However after having read both his and Seth's posts I think he has a case against you.

One, he didn't steal Seth's post and claim it as his own. It appears he did what you claimed in your first sentence and got an idea for a column. That's not plagiarism.

If I was you I would change the title of your post and remove the word plagiarist.

Of course if Able see's it he will probably remove it and remove mine as well and tell me to leave the administrating to the administrators.

Less coffee.

TripleThreat
05-14-2007, 01:03 PM
I have said for several years now that IndyStar could dump Krapitz and his ego, and hire Seth, who can break down and analyze this stuff on a level that Bob only dreams of.

Seth is a sports geek of the highest order.

Anthem
05-14-2007, 01:15 PM
Naptown_Seth is Bob Kravitz; Bob Kravitz is Naptown_Seth; Einhorn is Finkel. Naptown_Seth is a man!? I made out with a man!?!
You made out with somebody named "Seth" and were surprised that he was a man? I just don't know what they're teaching kids these days.

:flirt:






And yes, we all got the Pet Detective reference.

beast23
05-14-2007, 01:36 PM
No offense to Mr Kravitz but I wonder if more digging needed to be done? I go back to Barnhart's reply "How do you know he's not been tested?"

Unser denied any testing. BUT would Unser admit to it in the first place? And exactly what is done at the driver's physical... is blood tested? Is a drug screening part of the process?

Much like the Pacers, maybe the IRL tries to keep it's dirty laundry inhouse.
Exactly. In family businesses, we screen when hiring, and we perform "random" screening afterwards. Of course, anyone with a prior violation might find that his/her screening is a "little more random" than everyone elses.

But the important thing is that everything done regarding alcohol and drug screening is done confidentially. It is absolutely nobody's business what the results of a screening are, and who has been screened and when, for that matter. This confidentiality is maintained to protect the rights of the individual and the business as well.

When an employee fails a screening, depending on what is involved and to what degree it is, a program is available to help the employee. Some are fired immediately, others are given a period of time to resolve the situation. Again, it all depends on what the infraction is, and to what degree the involvement is.

But, under no circumstances will the business ever reveal anything about the screening to anyone. The only exception to that has been to resolve a lawsuit when one former employee filed suit for damages after dismissal.

If the employee wishes to reveal that he was screened and what the results were to anyone else, that is up to him. But most businesses will NEVER discuss anything about screening with an outside party.

If Kravitz had half a brain, he might have considered that.

My conclusion is that just because Unser denies it, that doesn't mean that screening didn't occur. Considering the potential for liability, the Indy folks would be absolutely stupid if they didn't demand it. And I don't thin any of them are that dumb when it comes to the magnitude of that liability.

Therefore, the screening has already taken place. It's just none of Kravitz's business, that's all.

Naptown_Seth
05-14-2007, 01:43 PM
Naptown_Seth is Bob Kravitz; Bob Kravitz is Naptown_Seth; Einhorn is Finkel. Naptown_Seth is a man!? I made out with a man!?!
:laugh:


I haven't read the BK article yet but now I guess I should. I seriously avoid BK like the plague since it was long ago pointed out that if you really don't like his approach then just don't read to prove your point to the Star. So I took that advice.

My other claim to BK fame came when Nuvo quoted me ripping on Bob's lack of research (on the Saras signing IIRC). If I did write for a paper we probably would have long ago become arch-rivals (well, that assumes a great deal of success on my part so maybe not...).


Okay after reading it my thoughts are this - he very well could have read the post and used it as a jumping off point. By the way, I've posted a Jack/Unser comment previously. Not sure yet which one Elgin linked, but I assume the most recent repeat of the comment.

However, in fairness to Bob, he has taken that initial view of Al vs Jackson and run with it into an Unser investigation. In that way it's more like "the people want to know and I'm going to look into it", which he apparently has done. Good for him, that's actual reporting and it's driven, perhaps, by fan interest in the issue.

Beside my angle was more on the forgiveness of the fanbase and no matter what approach the IRL takes with Unser it won't shorten the lines of fans looking for an autograph. And I can assure you that when they announce the grid a couple Sunday's from now you won't here a throng of boos pouring down on his name like when Jackson was announced at Conseco.

And don't tell me a lot of the same fans won't have been at both events, or like-minded fans when it comes to social issues. If they announced Jackson as the pace car driver or the official flag waver, he'd still get boo'd by the 500 crowd.



Much like the Pacers, maybe the IRL tries to keep it's dirty laundry inhouse.
Errr...try maybe. Succeed, the two aren't even close. Unser's had very dirty issues right here in Indy years ago that died a quick death in the press. If 8 Seconds featured a couple of IRL drivers you'd never have heard about it at all (still waiting on that trial BTW).

Same with the Colts. The NFL and IRL/Indy still feature the finances and ability to protect their image. The NBA has turned into a witch hunt all-around, and twice that in Indy thanks to the brawl. The Pacers have become a thing, a target, like Paris Hilton or Tom Cruise. It's a story and now ANYTHING that comes up is big news just because it's about the topic.

If Dunleavy's car gets towed due to not paying parking tickets, that's on ESPN's loop at this point.

waxman
05-14-2007, 02:07 PM
Unser Jr. is about 17years past his glory days and 15years from relevance.... He races in 1 IRL race a season... thats Indy. Strictly a grid filler, backmarker and a tie to past Indy glory. He's a side show, not one of the stars of the Tony George League.

RWB
05-14-2007, 03:54 PM
No comment on your comment Will. Just glad to see you posting again as there were several here that missed ya.

JayRedd
05-14-2007, 11:44 PM
Naptown_Seth is Bob Kravitz; Bob Kravitz is Naptown_Seth; Einhorn is Finkel. Naptown_Seth is a man!? I made out with a man!?!

Ha, ha, ha! That kind of surgery can be done over the weekend! But I doubt if she could find the time during her busy schedule to get rid of Mr. Knish!!

Will Galen
05-15-2007, 03:32 AM
I doubt an internet message board post is going to cause such actions, Will. This isn't a news website, it's a message board. If msnbc.com were posting an article saying what Elgin56 is saying, then yeah I could see something happening. But this is like saying if someone left a similar accusation in the "feedback" part of that article that someone will sue. Is it legally possible? I don't know. You're saying it is, so for the sake of this I'll consider it's possible. But I don't think it'll ever happen.

I've been reading where more and more people have been getting sued for what they say on the Internet. I looked for an article I read recently discussing that fact but couldn't find it.

I did find an article that will interest you. A court in California has ruled that sites can't be sued for what people say on their site.

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/opinions/ci_5875046