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TripleThreat
05-14-2007, 08:30 AM
Should the guy be suspended for tonight's game?

Let's face it...Stoudemire isn't the first player to ever claim that Bowen is dirty. Kobe got suspended after a couple of elbows this past season, and after the video that I saw this morning, I believe that there is some intent there.

I remember game 1 of the brawl season, and the Pacers opened up in Miami. Artest was called out for intentionally putting his foot on the floor underneath Shaq so that he would land awkwardly. I defended Ron-Ron that there was no way that he did something like that. My main point of contention was "who would put their foot under 300+ lbs?!?!??!

But now I wonder...is this a move that is common to these "defensive specialists"? Bowen certainly did it to Amare. The knee to the groin of Nash should be #2, and following the Kobe precedent, he should be suspended.

Thoughts?

Hicks
05-14-2007, 11:02 AM
Is there a clip of it up on youtube yet? I'd need to see it again to better say. I saw it once, and it looked questionable and probably (knowing Bowen) dirty, but I don't think you suspend him for that. Now I sure as hell would have for the Amare thing, but they decided it wasn't worth it for whatever reason. So I guess I answered my own question, I'm voting no, even though I think for his career-worth of shots he deserves a long suspension.

ChicagoJ
05-14-2007, 11:16 AM
They should just call three fouls on him in the very first minute of play. Whenever he gets near an offensive player its a foul. And they should do that for several games in a row. That's the better solution - take care of this crap on the court not between games even if its a "punitive" step.

Roferr
05-14-2007, 11:35 AM
It looked like it was a deliberate 'nad job to me. Nash may have emoted somewhat but Bowen's knee goes definitely higher than for a normal stride.

Mac_Daddy
05-14-2007, 11:50 AM
I love how there are people that say Bowen isn't intentionally trying to hurt people. There are those that say that he is trying to intimidate people or what not, but it always seems that people are getting hurt because of it.

Maybe I should start swing my bat at passerbyers and try to intimidate them. If I hit them, I'll just play it off like nothing happened.

I don't mind a hard foul once in a great while to get a point across, but nothing like what Bowen has been pulling. There is a slight difference between a knee in the jewels and good hard foul while taking it inside.

grace
05-14-2007, 12:23 PM
I never took anyone seriously when they said Bowen was a dirty player until I saw the clip of him kneeing Nash. It's pretty obvious that it was deliberate. I don't know that he should be suspended. I guess Stu and Stern could give him the option of being :kicknuts: three times before tipoff or be suspended.

ajbry
05-14-2007, 12:26 PM
After a while it stops being a coincidence brought on by aggressive play and starts being a definite pattern of dirty *** actions that put other players at significant injury risk.

I've had enough of this guy running around giving cheapshots and not being punished. He needs to be suspended.

LoneGranger33
05-14-2007, 12:39 PM
After a while it stops being a coincidence brought on by aggressive play and starts being a definite pattern of dirty *** actions that put other players at significant injury risk.

I've had enough of this guy running around giving cheapshots and not being punished. He needs to be suspended.

Agreed. Baron Davis, however good he may be, is not above the law.

TripleThreat
05-14-2007, 12:42 PM
Agreed. Baron Davis, however good he may be, is not above the law.
are you talking about the elbow to Fisher last night?

I like Davis, (comments about Reggie notwithstanding), but I was taken back by that shot, mainly b/c I thought those 2 were friends. He went over and apologized to him a few minutes later, but when he saw him go down, I think he would have stopped to help him him if it were an accident.

I think that was intentional, and I'll bet if the league reviews it, they will think the same.

That was a BS play, though.

DisplacedKnick
05-14-2007, 01:40 PM
If they didn't give him a game off for the Amare kick, kneeing Nash in the Nads (that could make a heckuva toungue-twister - just try to say it fast 3 times) won't get him tossed tonight.

Expect another 10 minutes from announcers saying they couldn't see anything intentional though.

Los Angeles
05-14-2007, 01:45 PM
They should just call three fouls on him in the very first minute of play. Whenever he gets near an offensive player its a foul. And they should do that for several games in a row. That's the better solution - take care of this crap on the court not between games even if its a "punitive" step.

OK, I found clear evidence of the 25% you don't believe.

Shouldn't the games be called according the rules?

Brian
05-14-2007, 02:17 PM
Its the playoffs...I love tough play.Sometimes you do what you have to do to win.

King Tuts Tomb
05-14-2007, 02:23 PM
I was actually just thinking about this. I'm of two minds about Bruce Bowen. Sometimes I love his tough defense, sometimes I really think he's trying to injure someone.

Most of us grew up in Indiana and I know where I lived hard fouls were a part of the game; no lay-ups, etc. Nothing dirty, just tough defense. Looking through these boards it's clear that a relatively big percentage of posters are especially fond of good defense. So I appreciate Bowen's effort, skill and nastiness on D. He's a pitbull and you have to respect it.

But I hate the thought of an athlete being injured on an avoidable play. It's why I think that although the NFL goes overboard sometimes with protecting the quarterback, I'm glad they do. I would hate to see a cheap shot end someones career. I think Bowen should have been fined for kicking Stoudemire's achilles in game two. That was so obviously on purpose and it made me cringe watching it.

I don't really get the uproar over the Nash thing. An offensive player should be allowed to clear out space. Did he get him in the nuts? Sure, but that isn't a suspendable offense, and Nash definitely oversold it.

King Tuts Tomb
05-14-2007, 02:27 PM
Video of the incident.

vp8iJppJ15s

Couple thoughts:
-Nash flies like 8 feet the other way.
-Bowen definitely lifted his leg to get into him.
-How does D'Antoni not get technicals?! This guy complains more than any coach in the playoffs.

Arcadian
05-14-2007, 02:30 PM
Not for that play. Going after an achilles is a lot different than hitting someone in the groin.

I agree with Jay the refs should just call him tighter. I'm not a big fan of the league giving the penalty the morning after.

Trader Joe
05-14-2007, 02:43 PM
After him kneeing Nash? Yeah suspend him forever boot him from the league. Dirtiest player around. I have zero respect for him.

P.S. I could see how this could be interpreted as sarcasm upon reading it. It's not. I'm 100% serious. This guy has a dirty play every game if you watch close enough. Its an art form for him and getting away with it is fun for him if you ask me. I think he gets great pleasure every time he gets attention for this and never gets suspended. IMO

VF21
05-14-2007, 03:04 PM
After a while it stops being a coincidence brought on by aggressive play and starts being a definite pattern of dirty *** actions that put other players at significant injury risk.

I've had enough of this guy running around giving cheapshots and not being punished. He needs to be suspended.

I agree. I voted "yes" for the suspension on the theory that this should be looked upon as the "straw that broke the camel's back."

Bowen has done this too many times to too many quality players for it to be coincidence. It's about time he started being called on it, regardless of the team he's on or his "defensive" prowess.

ajbry
05-14-2007, 03:14 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/news/story?id=2870076

Bowen ain't getting suspended, neither is J-Rich. But Baron's elbow is still being looked at.

Oneal07
05-14-2007, 03:35 PM
NBA players are "whiners" nowadays. . .back in the days the games were more physical than this!! Bowen is playing like he always plays. . .There's always trash talking in basketball, so that obviously triggers foul play. . .I'm not saying its right, but if your gonna let a player like Bowen affect your game then your not mentallly strong enough to play in the NBA. . .Maybe when all the old schoolers are gone these new guys can stop complaining

Since86
05-14-2007, 03:57 PM
There's a difference between playing phsyical, and playing dirty.

Dirty is placing your foot under a player in the air shooting, which Bowen has done more than once. Dirty is trying to phsyically hurt someone, i.e. kneeing them in the nuts etc.

Playing phsyical is grabing/holding, setting hard screens, really putting a body on someone while boxing out. Phsyical play *can* be called a foul, because you're going over the top on contact, but it's not designed to injure anyone, whereas dirty play is.

Being soft and whining about dirty plays aren't one in the same. There is no place for playing dirty in the NBA, or even on the pickup courts.

ChicagoJ
05-14-2007, 04:20 PM
OK, I found clear evidence of the 25% you don't believe.

Shouldn't the games be called according the rules?

Okay, that's about 0.025% of it. I do think they should do a better job of taking care of the problem on the court.

Nothing about the NBA's "justice systme" makes me madder than the fact that flagrant foul by Oakley on Reggie that started the Knicks v. Hicks rivarly (a few months before Starks headbutted Reggie) was not called during the game and the punishment was administered by the league office the next day. By the way, that was the impetus for the rule change for automatic free throws if you foul a guy that's out of bounds, as the way that Oakley knocked Reggie into the basket support was frightening.

Since that came shortly after the famous MJ-Reggie fight in which Reggie and Bo Hill were ejected but not a single technical foul was called on that Jordan punk, but Jordan was suspended for the next game. Whoop-de-****, he should've been suspended for the next Pacers-Bulls game, instead some random NBA team got the benefit of the clearly unreasonable decision to eject two Pacers, neither of which initiated the fight, while letting Jordan and Company run roughshop over an then-undermanned Pacers team.

That's what I've got a problem with. Clearly "phantom calls" are not the preferred solution, but its better than letting the guy go unpunished entirely.

PR07
05-14-2007, 04:46 PM
I wish someone would put Bruce Bowen on his back and send a message. I'm all for tenacious D, but this guy does the little dirty things that have no place in the NBA. The placing of the foot under someone's shoe when they're shooting, stepping at someone's achilles, kneeing someone in the groin, etc.

Los Angeles
05-14-2007, 04:58 PM
Okay, that's about 0.025% of it. I do think they should do a better job of taking care of the problem on the court.

Nothing about the NBA's "justice systme" makes me madder than the fact that flagrant foul by Oakley on Reggie that started the Knicks v. Hicks rivarly (a few months before Starks headbutted Reggie) was not called during the game and the punishment was administered by the league office the next day. By the way, that was the impetus for the rule change for automatic free throws if you foul a guy that's out of bounds, as the way that Oakley knocked Reggie into the basket support was frightening.

Since that came shortly after the famous MJ-Reggie fight in which Reggie and Bo Hill were ejected but not a single technical foul was called on that Jordan punk, but Jordan was suspended for the next game. Whoop-de-****, he should've been suspended for the next Pacers-Bulls game, instead some random NBA team got the benefit of the clearly unreasonable decision to eject two Pacers, neither of which initiated the fight, while letting Jordan and Company run roughshop over an then-undermanned Pacers team.

That's what I've got a problem with. Clearly "phantom calls" are not the preferred solution, but its better than letting the guy go unpunished entirely.

Jay, I comletely agree that the right calls need to be made on the floor in the first place. And you don't have to go into the way-back machine to see how officials not taking charge what is going on then and there can mess things up royally. You just need to look at a certain game 9 games into the 04/05 Pacers season.

But you can't fix a missed call with a wrong call. Two wrongs do not make a right. Never have. Never will.

That said, I don't understand why league action is not an OK thing? The league did the right thing when they suspended Jordan, even if he didn't get thrown out of the game in the first place. They were clear: you can't do this and get away with it.

I personally want ALL "make up" calls - and all officials who called games in the era of the make up call to be gone gone gone.

In order to fix what's broken, you have to replace some old parts with new ones.

ChicagoJ
05-14-2007, 05:15 PM
No - you shouldn't fix a missed call with a wrong call, clearly.

But you can "call it tighter" for a player with a reputation like Bowen's.

David Harrison gets no breaks from the officials, and he's not dirty. Treat Bowen like you treat Harrison for a few games and he'll back down and Popovich will likely bench him unless his three-pointer is falling.

Los Angeles
05-14-2007, 05:25 PM
OK - then we understand each other.

I want to see the day when all players are called equally.

DH gets called because he continues to make the signature rookie big man move: He goes for the tomahawk chop almost every time. I mean, it's been YEARS, David - stop swatting!!!

I wish Jeff Foster would teach him how to use his hands.

But I digress.

Swingman
05-14-2007, 05:30 PM
I think he should be kicked out of the NBA but I guess if it's just those 2 options, then I'd suspend him.

SoupIsGood
05-14-2007, 05:39 PM
I wish someone would put Bruce Bowen on his back and send a message. \

No kidding. I'm getting sick of the guy, and how he's never punished for anything. If the NBA isn't ever going to punish him, someone's eventually going to flat-out punch him in the head.

diamonddave00
05-14-2007, 06:31 PM
I've played a lot of basketball both orginized and pick up ball. A shot to groin in a pickup game can end in a fist to the face. Hard physical play is one thing but dirty and cheap shot crap Bowen pulls goes beyond the line of hard play. No question he should be suspended.

BoomBaby31
05-14-2007, 06:37 PM
Alright, I don't condone hurting players, violence, "dirty play" etc... but Bowen is a slick SOB, seriously the concentration it takes to commit an act of evil (if you will) with out looking or even acting like it was on purpose, is just a craft. Like Reggie, when he use to pull players into him, jump and shoot a leaner/fade-away to get the foul. This craft is awful but so darn convincing. This is why Stern can't come down on Bowen, it doesn't look like he is doing it on purpose. It is disputable, on all levels. Not taking up for the fellow but, seriously he's got skill in an evil way.

Moses
05-14-2007, 06:58 PM
Alright, I don't condone hurting players, violence, "dirty play" etc... but Bowen is a slick SOB, seriously the concentration it takes to commit an act of evil (if you will) with out looking or even acting like it was on purpose, is just a craft. Like Reggie, when he use to pull players into him, jump and shoot a leaner/fade-away to get the foul. This craft is awful but so darn convincing. This is why Stern can't come down on Bowen, it doesn't look like he is doing it on purpose. It is disputable, on all levels. Not taking up for the fellow but, seriously he's got skill in an evil way.
Intentionally hurting players is not slick. It's classless and Bowen is a complete douche for doing it. I am all for solid defense in a league that doesn't allow defenders to do much, but just because your a 'defensive' specialist doesn't mean you can run around kicking people in awkward positions and kneeing guys in the crotch looking to cause injury.

Bowen is a piece of trash and I'll celebrate the day he is out of the NBA. And as some others here said, Bowen just needs to get the crap beat out of him to be put back in place. Put both Stephen Jackson or Ron Artest on him defensively all game and just don't let him move.

pizza guy
05-14-2007, 07:01 PM
\

No kidding. I'm getting sick of the guy, and how he's never punished for anything. If the NBA isn't ever going to punish him, someone's eventually going to flat-out punch him in the head.

That's the absolute truth. Bowen is a cheap-shot artist and unless the league does something, he's going to get nailed on the court, and it won't be pretty. It's obvious that there's a pattern here, and something needs to be done.

Suspend him, fine him, and have the refs call a little tighter on him. See if anything changes his tune.

--pizza

clownskull
05-14-2007, 07:51 PM
before, i didn't notice all the crap he has done. but now, with such things as youtube, i have seen enough to proclaim with certainty that he is a dirty player. very dirty. he has done so much crap over the years and he needs a comeupance in the worst way. someone should give him a few doses of his own medicine. i used to be indifferent to the guy but, he is scum like several other dirty players i have seen over the years.

Hicks
05-14-2007, 08:03 PM
There's a difference between playing phsyical, and playing dirty.

Dirty is placing your foot under a player in the air shooting, which Bowen has done more than once. Dirty is trying to phsyically hurt someone, i.e. kneeing them in the nuts etc.

Playing phsyical is grabing/holding, setting hard screens, really putting a body on someone while boxing out. Phsyical play *can* be called a foul, because you're going over the top on contact, but it's not designed to injure anyone, whereas dirty play is.

Being soft and whining about dirty plays aren't one in the same. There is no place for playing dirty in the NBA, or even on the pickup courts.

Well said!

SycamoreKen
05-14-2007, 11:43 PM
before, i didn't notice all the crap he has done. but now, with such things as youtube, i have seen enough to proclaim with certainty that he is a dirty player. very dirty. he has done so much crap over the years and he needs a comeupance in the worst way. someone should give him a few doses of his own medicine. i used to be indifferent to the guy but, he is scum like several other dirty players i have seen over the years.

NBA players today don't have the guts or the backbone to put someone in their place. At least pitchers will still stand up for their teammates. Heck, Amare and his ilk would be crying at home with mommy if they had to play against the Pistons back in '80's.

Naptown_Seth
05-15-2007, 04:02 AM
I never took anyone seriously when they said Bowen was a dirty player until I saw the clip of him kneeing Nash. It's pretty obvious that it was deliberate. I don't know that he should be suspended. I guess Stu and Stern could give him the option of being :kicknuts: three times before tipoff or be suspended.
:laugh: I assume Nash gets to do the honors. And then he gets to use a tackling dummy to drive Horry into the front row as well.

Maybe if guys had to get what they give it would back them off a little. Sorta like the NL vs AL pitchers hitting players thing.