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View Full Version : PD Referendum - Jeff Foster



OakMoses
05-10-2007, 05:15 PM
He's got a reasonable contract.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 05:19 PM
I wouldnt mind Jeff coming off the bench for 20-25 minutes. I dont want him to start. And if something comes along where we could get a nice young guard for him I would trade him in a second.

Unclebuck
05-10-2007, 05:22 PM
Until we find someone better, he should start

Hicks
05-10-2007, 05:42 PM
I voted for big minutes off the bench in that I hope we find a better starter, and if so I definitely want Jeff Foster off the bench to give us 25 minutes a night.

Tom White
05-10-2007, 05:43 PM
I voted "on another team" for (pretty much) just one reason. That reason is my own mental stability. I swear if I see Foster blow as many layups next season as he has in seasons past, I'm gonna lose my freakin' mind.

I'm also concerned about the building number of injuries he has had, especially given his style of play.

grace
05-10-2007, 05:47 PM
Has been...a good player in the past.

BlueNGold
05-10-2007, 07:45 PM
It depends on if you want to win games or rebuild.

I said on another team as part of a rebuild. But if he is not traded, he should probably start.

Unclebuck
05-10-2007, 07:48 PM
Jeff is one of those players that when he is gone - you really miss him.

pwee31
05-10-2007, 07:52 PM
undecided should be an option!

DisapointedPacerFan
05-10-2007, 07:59 PM
Definatley a good rebounder but I think we could get a better one in the draft(if we get a pick) or in the FA. Could be like a 7th man.

JayRedd
05-10-2007, 09:31 PM
20+ minutes off the bench. I always thought he'd be more effective as an energy guy that could come in and really make an impact on the game at like the 8-minute mark. He'd be a great mix-of-pace guy...sorta like a more savvy, less ridiculous-looking, and overall better Anderson Varejao. Or sort of like the defensive version of Matt Harpring.

Also gives the coach the option of putting him in after just a few minutes into the game if the guys are playing lackluster.

This would require us having two big men than him though, which hasn't happened since the early Paliolithic Era. Not two we can start at the same time anyway.

Roaming Gnome
05-10-2007, 10:08 PM
I voted "on another team" just because I see Jeff as a luxury that could possibly either bring in a guy to fill a need position or to move a "bad contract"...or possibly both. Jeff is a good player, but as long as he stays, I believe he hinders us getting minutes to Baston and Diogu.

Shade
05-10-2007, 10:21 PM
I voted "on another team" just because I see Jeff as a luxury that could possibly either bring in a guy to fill a need position or to move a "bad contract"...or possibly both. Jeff is a good player, but as long as he stays, I believe he hinders us getting minutes to Baston and Diogu.

Jeff and filler for Jason Terry! :signit:

Pig Nash
05-11-2007, 01:02 AM
I think that Jeff is one of our tradeable pieces, so I'd like to see him on another team.

Major Cold
05-11-2007, 09:42 AM
If we trade him and JO we won't outrebound the Warriors next year

Roferr
05-11-2007, 10:03 AM
Jeff definitely has good trade value. If we could pick up a decent PG or even a #2 with a good consistent shot, I'd be willing to trade him. However, who's going to replace what Jeff does? He has more heart than any other player on the team, the only one willing to set picks consistently, keeps the ball alive with tip-outs maybe 3-4 times a game (essentially the same as a rbd) and plays decent defense. He is our best rebounder, yes even better than JO. The only thing he lacks is a decent shot, which I think he could develop if given a chance.

Posters are constantly complaining about his missed bunnies. That's true, he does miss them but he only averages TWO misses a game. It's not like he's blowing a ton of them. Out of those TWO misses, sometimes he gets credited for two misses on the same possession and the total is misleading. Hardly enough misses to even warrant mentioning.

I'd sure hate to see him traded because he is the consummate teammate, willing to do anything and everything for the good of the team. He never complains about when he plays, how often plays, how many minutes he plays, etc. How many players can you say that about. All he cares about is what can he do to help the victory count. He'd even ride the bench with DNP-CD's every game if it meant a better chance at winning.

Like UB said, you're not going to miss him until he's gone and believe me if Bird decides to trade him, there will be an abundance of teams jumping at the chance of attaining his services.

ChicagoJ
05-11-2007, 10:21 AM
Posters are constantly complaining about his missed bunnies. That's true, he does miss them but he only averages TWO misses a game. It's not like he's blowing a ton of them. Out of those TWO misses, sometimes he gets credited for two misses on the same possession and the total is misleading. Hardly enough misses to even warrant mentioning.

Yes, but he also gets credit for multiple offensive rebounds in that scenario, which is even more misleading becasue a player capable of hitting putbacks would have far fewer ORs than Jeff gets but might be just as good of a rebounder - he's padding his rebounding total while hurting his FG%. But that plays right into the "nobody hustles like Jeff Foster" mindset.

Jeff Foster is the best in the league at something: rebounding his own missed put-backs.


I'd sure hate to see him traded because he is the consummate teammate, willing to do anything and everything for the good of the team. He never complains about when he plays, how often plays, how many minutes he plays, etc. How many players can you say that about. All he cares about is what can he do to help the victory count. He'd even ride the bench with DNP-CD's every game if it meant a better chance at winning.

Like UB said, you're not going to miss him until he's gone and believe me if Bird decides to trade him, there will be an abundance of teams jumping at the chance of attaining his services.

I don't really want to trade him to another team, I just want to keep him in a role that is consistent with his abilities, contract, etc.

Its not like Rick ever played him "starter's minutes" when he was in the starting lineup (assuming everyone else was healthy) He's good for 16-20 minutes per game, but he's not a 24+ mpg player and if he's playing 33+ mpg that's a sign of a big problem. That's why the "per-48 stats" don't work for Jeff - he's the type of player with diminishing returns and if you leave him on the court long enough other team's will take advantage of his weaknesses.

This is a guy that can get "gameplanned" right out of a seven-game playoff series. He's not a difficult player for opposing teams to "solve" if his minutes are too high.

FlavaDave
05-11-2007, 11:03 AM
My sole criteria for evaluating Pacer players is judging how valuable he will be in 3 years. Since Jeff probably won't be too special by then, I would trade him now.

But hold up, FlavaDave. He could be valuable right now as a veteran leader and a mentor for the young guys.

I agree. I say we keep him unless someone makes us a Godfather offer (Jason Terry would be one).

Roferr
05-11-2007, 12:49 PM
Yes, but he also gets credit for multiple offensive rebounds in that scenario, which is even more misleading becasue a player capable of hitting putbacks would have far fewer ORs than Jeff gets but might be just as good of a rebounder - he's padding his rebounding total while hurting his FG%. But that plays right into the "nobody hustles like Jeff Foster" mindset.

Jeff Foster is the best in the league at something: rebounding his own missed put-backs.



I don't really want to trade him to another team, I just want to keep him in a role that is consistent with his abilities, contract, etc.

Its not like Rick ever played him "starter's minutes" when he was in the starting lineup (assuming everyone else was healthy) He's good for 16-20 minutes per game, but he's not a 24+ mpg player and if he's playing 33+ mpg that's a sign of a big problem. That's why the "per-48 stats" don't work for Jeff - he's the type of player with diminishing returns and if you leave him on the court long enough other team's will take advantage of his weaknesses.

This is a guy that can get "gameplanned" right out of a seven-game playoff series. He's not a difficult player for opposing teams to "solve" if his minutes are too high.

You make some pretty valid points about Foster's playing time as his stats are contingent upon his playing time...the more he plays the more his per/48 stats would go down. His body won't allow him to play the biggest part of a game. However, I do think that he can handle 22-28 minutes a game, when needed.

Regarding his rebounds....yes, multiple put backs pads his rebound stats, however, his tip-outs (which in essence are same as a rebound) do not count for any stat, although they provide another offensive possession just a steal or board would. But with him averaging 4 shots a game and making 2 of them, his two misses are still pretty insignificant, when others consistently miss 5 to 14 shots regularly.

ChicagoJ
05-11-2007, 03:31 PM
However, I do think that he can handle 22-28 minutes a game, when needed.

I think we're saying the same thing - that's not the ideal amount of time you can play him over the long run. But if injuries, foul trouble, or whatever come along he can step up in a stop-gap way.

I continue to be worried about his hip problems - his play has declined over the past couple of years and his "quick jump" is his best attribute.

Still - for a guy that I think isn't very strong, physically, after watch SMurphy this spring I at least admire Jeff's mental toughness. Too bad Jeff doesn't have Troy's skill, or Troy doesn't have Jeff's tenacity...

Why do we always end up with two half-players playing the same position. Why can't we find some (sane) complete players. I said "sane", Artest doesn't count no matter how complete he was.

Naptown_Seth
05-13-2007, 01:46 AM
Foster is my favorite current Pacer, he's earned it IMO, despite his string of misses at the rim this year out of nowhere. I've liked him since about day 1 and I never get why they give up on him after he helps them win games so much.

The stats used to suggest that Troy was in the ballpark of Jeff as a rebounder. Then you saw them playing on the court together and it wasn't even close. Jeff dwarfs Troy on the glass, he outhustles and outmuscles him.

Jeff isn't quite as tough as Dale but basically he fits that same role, he'll works hard in the defensive post with pretty decent effectiveness and he'll get a ton of tough rebounds for you most of the time.

If there is a "write it in without even thinking" guy on the roster it's Jeff at the 4 or 5 every night IMO.


Injuries worry me too but honestly Jeff looked much healthier this year than he did last year. That eased my concerns somewhat.

Naptown_Seth
05-13-2007, 01:49 AM
Gnome - Jeff does one thing that Baston and Ike don't: he can defend the post effectively. Baston is too light and not particularly saavy with low post defense (he's better at a shot block helper or away from the rim) and Ike just gets shot over right at the rim. Foster has learned the art of physically holding off some of the stronger low post guys.

Mr.ThunderMakeR
05-13-2007, 03:46 AM
Here is a sort of dumb comparison that came to mind the other day:

For anyone that knows anything about warplanes, Foster is like the A-10 Warthog.
http://www.globalalternatives.org/images/A-10%5B1%5D.photo.jpg

The USAF has been trying to replace the A-10 since the early 90's but everytime they get into a war they realize just how important it is, how much they need it, and how the rugged plane does all the things that the fancy fighter jets cant. Similarly, everytime the Pacers try to take Foster out of the starting lineup, they realize just how bad they actually need him and he ends up working his way back in. Like Foster's game, the A-10 is considered ugly but like Jeff, it gets the job done. And so as much as they'd like to replace it with all the new fancier high-tech aircraft, they cant.

BlueNGold
05-13-2007, 07:14 AM
Here is a sort of dumb comparison that came to mind the other day:

For anyone that knows anything about warplanes, Foster is like the A-10 Warthog.
http://www.globalalternatives.org/images/A-10%5B1%5D.photo.jpg

The USAF has been trying to replace the A-10 since the early 90's but everytime they get into a war they realize just how important it is, how much they need it, and how the rugged plane does all the things that the fancy fighter jets cant. Similarly, everytime the Pacers try to take Foster out of the starting lineup, they realize just how bad they actually need him and he ends up working his way back in. Like Foster's game, the A-10 is considered ugly but like Jeff, it gets the job done. And so as much as they'd like to replace it with all the new fancier high-tech aircraft, they cant.
That's a great comparison. The A-10 is like a flying tank. I was into aviation technology in high school. Worked on a 5/8th's scale Jap Zero during class.

BTW, does that make Bender the Hindenberg?...or Artest a "doctor/lawyer killer?

BlueNGold
05-13-2007, 07:24 AM
Foster is crucial if you want this team to win games right now. Crucial. If he is gone, we will get regularly pounded.

BUT, teams know he is valuable. He will bring good value from a team with some young talent looking to make a run right now. So if we are truly rebuilding (and looking to be in the draft for a couple years) we should look to trade him for good value sometime...as early as this summer. I don't want to see him go, but the veteran Pacers need to be purged off this team within the next year or two.

Roferr
05-13-2007, 09:47 AM
I think we're saying the same thing - that's not the ideal amount of time you can play him over the long run. But if injuries, foul trouble, or whatever come along he can step up in a stop-gap way.

I continue to be worried about his hip problems - his play has declined over the past couple of years and his "quick jump" is his best attribute.

Still - for a guy that I think isn't very strong, physically, after watch SMurphy this spring I at least admire Jeff's mental toughness. Too bad Jeff doesn't have Troy's skill, or Troy doesn't have Jeff's tenacity...

Why do we always end up with two half-players playing the same position. Why can't we find some (sane) complete players. I said "sane", Artest doesn't count no matter how complete he was.


I hold out hope for Murph becasue his first couple of years, he had the mental toughness of Jeff. If he could return to a double-double player, which I think he will, he will definitely fill in a piece of the puzzle.

Roferr
05-13-2007, 09:49 AM
Foster is my favorite current Pacer, he's earned it IMO, despite his string of misses at the rim this year out of nowhere. I've liked him since about day 1 and I never get why they give up on him after he helps them win games so much.

The stats used to suggest that Troy was in the ballpark of Jeff as a rebounder. Then you saw them playing on the court together and it wasn't even close. Jeff dwarfs Troy on the glass, he outhustles and outmuscles him.

Jeff isn't quite as tough as Dale but basically he fits that same role, he'll works hard in the defensive post with pretty decent effectiveness and he'll get a ton of tough rebounds for you most of the time.

If there is a "write it in without even thinking" guy on the roster it's Jeff at the 4 or 5 every night IMO.


Injuries worry me too but honestly Jeff looked much healthier this year than he did last year. That eased my concerns somewhat.

Won't small wonders ever cease! There's absolutely nothing in this post that I can argue with.