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Jermaniac
05-09-2007, 11:32 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/nba/070509/v050927A.html
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INDIANAPOLIS -- Jermaine O'Neal respects the Indiana Pacers too much to demand a trade, despite his frustrations over missing the playoffs for the first time in his seven seasons with the team.

O'Neal said in an interview Wednesday that he has spoken with Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh once since the season ended, but trade talk never entered the conversation. He said there is nothing to reports that he's pushing to be reunited with his old coach Isiah Thomas at the New York Knicks.

"That's just somebody that's putting out speculation," O'Neal told The Associated Press. "That didn't come from the Pacers, and that didn't come from me."

O'Neal, who underwent knee surgery two weeks ago, has been the subject of trade talk since the Pacers (35-47) missed the playoffs for the first time in 10 years.

O'Neal averaged 19.4 points, 9.6 rebounds and 2.6 blocks in one of the best seasons of his 11-year career, but he's the team's top commodity if it chooses to rebuild.

The Pacers have fired coach Rick Carlisle.

O'Neal was close to Thomas when he coached the Pacers, before he was fired four years ago in favor of Carlisle. O'Neal acknowledges that he could be traded but denied a Chicago Tribune report that he had made such a request.

"They gave me the opportunity to build my name and status in this league," O'Neal said of the Pacers. "It's disrespectful to them to be commenting about it. I haven't made any demands or anything like that.

"There's not going to be anymore speculation," he said. "It's all going to be false speculation. I'm going to let the process take its course."

O'Neal grew frustrated with the Pacers struggles during the season. During the team's 11-game losing streak late in the season, the normally accommodating star stopped speaking to reporters.

The Pacers entered the season with high hopes. But after a mediocre start, they made an eight-player trade in January that included Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson going to the Golden State Warriors for Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy. The adjustment to new players and injuries to O'Neal, swingman Marquis Daniels and point guard Jamaal Tinsley took a toll, and Indiana went 15-29 after the trade.

Despite that, O'Neal said after the season that the Pacers "will win" if they put the right pieces around him in the offseason.

O'Neal said he's feeling good after having surgery to repair the torn meniscus in his left knee that left him hobbled the last two months of the season.

"I'm doing great," he said. "There's still some swelling from the operation, but it's gone down significantly. I'm ahead of schedule, and my strength is coming back to normal."

O'Neal said he plans to start riding a stationary bike soon and expects his rehab to be complete in about a month. From there, he plans to swim to give the knee additional strength and improve his overall conditioning.

He wouldn't mind wearing a Pacers uniform after recovering, but he's ready to move on if he's traded.

"If it comes down to me being the piece they need to retool, so be it," he said. "I stand behind Donnie. I'm going to let him determine the situation."

SoupIsGood
05-09-2007, 11:43 PM
I never believed that he did.

Hicks
05-09-2007, 11:43 PM
Link needs to be included.

Jermaniac
05-09-2007, 11:45 PM
I got it off another forum and there was no link. If its not worthy news go and delete it, I read it already so I dont care.

SoupIsGood
05-09-2007, 11:47 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/cp/nba/070509/v050927A.html

Jermaniac
05-09-2007, 11:49 PM
Right on Soup.

3rdStrike
05-09-2007, 11:49 PM
He stands behind Donnie, but Bird's in charge now.

tdubb03
05-10-2007, 12:52 AM
JO's classy to the end.

Arcadian
05-10-2007, 01:23 AM
I had no idea that JO won a Stanley Cup. Does this mean he's going to LA?

Kstat
05-10-2007, 02:08 AM
Um, Gretzky got traded a long time ago....

NorCal_Pacerfan
05-10-2007, 02:19 AM
Say what you want about JO, but he's a class act.

bschaff999
05-10-2007, 07:21 AM
You stay classy, JO. The rest of the organization apparently didn't get that memo...

mildlysane
05-10-2007, 07:56 AM
He stands behind Donnie, but Bird's in charge now.

That struck me too.

MagicRat
05-10-2007, 08:40 AM
He stands behind Donnie, but Bird's in charge now.

Mike Wells touched on that in his write-up......


http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070510/SPORTS04/705100541


O'Neal: I didn't request a trade
He's not eager to be part of a rebuilding effort
By Mike Wells
May 10, 2007


Indiana Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal was surprised to read that he reportedly asked to be traded.

O'Neal described the published report in one word: ridiculous.

The Chicago Tribune earlier this week wrote that O'Neal told team officials that he wants to be traded to the New York Knicks so that he can be reunited with former coach and close friend Isiah Thomas.

"There were only three people in my meeting -- me, (CEO) Donnie Walsh and (president) Larry Bird," O'Neal said in a phone interview with The Star on Wednesday. "That's ridiculous to say I said that. They don't know what happened in there. I want to make this clear: I have too much respect for Donnie Walsh and (owners) Mel and Herb Simon and the city to continue (to) talk (adversely) about my future with the team."

O'Neal didn't mention Bird. There has been friction between them dating from two years ago, when Bird said the team would find somebody to lead it if O'Neal couldn't handle the job. More recently, Bird took an indirect shot at O'Neal and other players when announcing coach Rick Carlisle's firing. Bird said "we had some issues where guys didn't practice and guys that didn't play on a consistent basis. We have to have players that are willing to do whatever it takes." O'Neal was limited the final three months of the season because of his injured left knee.

O'Neal said he wants to remain a Pacer as long as they don't go into a rebuilding phase.

O'Neal knows he and Minnesota Timberwolves forward Kevin Garnett will likely be two of the most talked about players on the trading block this summer.

"I want to put this to bed," O'Neal said. "If the team is able to address the needs to compete for a championship, then great. If not, obviously, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be a key component (in a trade) to rebuild a team. I'm totally fine with that.

"I'm going to let the organization handle what they need to handle, and I'm going to stand behind their decision, whatever it may be. We're keeping in contact. My respect for the city, Donnie and the Simon family is too high to make this out to be about Jermaine O'Neal. It's not. It's a process and it will play itself out."

O'Neal recently had knee surgery and said rehabilitation is ahead of schedule. He hopes to start riding a bike this weekend and begin weight training and shooting free throws next week.

"All I'm worried about right now is spending time with my wife and two kids and starting my workout schedule," O'Neal said. "I understand I need to get to a higher level to surpass where I was at this season. The better situation is going to happen for this team if I'm here or I'm not. I ultimately believe that."

Speed
05-10-2007, 08:52 AM
Mike Wells touched on that in his write-up......

O'Neal didn't mention Bird. There has been friction between them dating from two years ago, when Bird said the team would find somebody to lead it if O'Neal couldn't handle the job. More recently, Bird took an indirect shot at O'Neal and other players when announcing coach Rick Carlisle's firing. Bird said "we had some issues where guys didn't practice and guys that didn't play on a consistent basis. We have to have players that are willing to do whatever it takes." O'Neal was limited the final three months of the season because of his injured left knee.

."


I think if this is true, JO is way gone.

able
05-10-2007, 09:07 AM
I think if this is true, JO is way gone.


If that is true, which I somehow doubt, then we need to get rid of Bird even faster then we can select a new coach, that man does more harm to this franchise as it's president then he has ever been able to do as a Celtic.

What else does he wants on his resume?

bschaff999
05-10-2007, 09:12 AM
Agreed. This year (and probably next) are going to be critical to Bird's legacy as PoBO.

2Cleva
05-10-2007, 09:20 AM
From JO's words you can tell he's gone. Bird is ready to make the team over in his ideal. JO won't be part of it.

Roferr
05-10-2007, 10:14 AM
I think JO is telling LB/DW one thing and IT another. Trying to take the high road out, underhandedly.

wjs
05-10-2007, 10:15 AM
True that: JO is a class act and he is gone. The forthcoming trade is the right move, both for JO and for the Pacers.

Right for Indiana because, whereas Jermaine is not worth his max contract to the Pacers, there are teams who will, I think, trade us 'fair value' for him -- because he is worth more to them than to us. Right for JO because he may wind up with a contender in a role better suited for him, i.e., #2 option paired with a true superstar.

While there are a number of interesting trade possibilities, I hope we trade with the Lakers for Bynum and Odom, and perhaps expand the deal, trading Tinsley etc. for their #1 plus Farmar. And then hire either Stan Van Gundy (Odom coach in Miami) or Brian Shaw (current Lakers asst) to coach these guys back to the playoffs next spring. No Sam Mitchell, please, Larry.

2Cleva
05-10-2007, 10:50 AM
While there are a number of interesting trade possibilities, I hope we trade with the Lakers for Bynum and Odom, and perhaps expand the deal, trading Tinsley etc. for their #1 plus Farmar.

LA won't do all of that.

1 - Deal Odom AND Bynum together will NOT happen. Only guy they do that for is KG. And with the owner in love with Bynum, Odom is likely the one dealt.

2 - I can see LA taking Tinsley though. Not prototype for the triangle but he's better than Smush Parker.

3 - I can see LA dealing Farmar. They like him but aren't in love.

4 - LA dealing their first rounder is a given. Mitch Kupchak has already said the team is too young and the team doesn't want any of their picks.

Dealing JO and Tinsley for Odom, Kwame Brown (last year deal - hopefully will play better looking for a contract), Farmar, and a first round draft pick is really a helluva deal and saves the Pacers a lot of money was well as bringing back 4 key assets.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 10:51 AM
lmao @ Bird. No wonder JO hates him, the rest of the team probably does as well. They guy hasnt made a smart move since he became a Pacers GM.

FlavaDave
05-10-2007, 11:01 AM
LA won't do all of that.

1 - Deal Odom AND Bynum together will NOT happen. Only guy they do that for is KG. And with the owner in love with Bynum, Odom is likely the one dealt.

2 - I can see LA taking Tinsley though. Not prototype for the triangle but he's better than Smush Parker.

3 - I can see LA dealing Farmar. They like him but aren't in love.

4 - LA dealing their first rounder is a given. Mitch Kupchak has already said the team is too young and the team doesn't want any of their picks.

Dealing JO and Tinsley for Odom, Kwame Brown (last year deal - hopefully will play better looking for a contract), Farmar, and a first round draft pick is really a helluva deal and saves the Pacers a lot of money was well as bringing back 4 key assets.



You're telling me that if KG isn't available, the Lakers would stay pat rather than trade Bynum and Odom for JO? No way does the current Laker team get out of the first round next year. They would sacrifice another year of Kobe's prime to wait on Bynum?

CableKC
05-10-2007, 12:43 PM
You're telling me that if KG isn't available, the Lakers would stay pat rather than trade Bynum and Odom for JO? No way does the current Laker team get out of the first round next year. They would sacrifice another year of Kobe's prime to wait on Bynum?
Yep...I agree. But I think its the other way around.......they will offer the "full buffet" to the TWolves for KG...and if the TWolves don't bite ( I suspect that the Bulls will offer something better )...they will offer Bynum with Kwame....probably with Farmar and the 19th pick ( just to sweeten the pot ) .....but not with Odom....to either the Grizzlies or the Pacers.

JONeal and Gasol would be a slight improvement over Odom as a "2nd fiddle" ( I'm talking about complementing Kobe...not when comparing players themselves )...but that wouldn't put them over the top.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 01:08 PM
Um, Gretzky got traded a long time ago....Someone who plays hockey is not the great one.

Kstat
05-10-2007, 01:17 PM
33 million Canadians would disagree.

And yes, there is only one "great one." I don't care if he plays water polo. JO has neither the rings nor the numbers to challenge for it.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 01:19 PM
You really take yourself way too seriously. Everytime I make a joke you come up in my thread correcting my ****, its a JOKE. Relax, Good God.

I also call Jermaine O'Neal God, why dont you give me a lesson on religion and why Jermaine O'Neal isnt God.

FlavaDave
05-10-2007, 01:53 PM
but that wouldn't put them over the top.


JO wouldn't alone, but it would put them near the top. Right now they are stuck at the base of the mountain.

DaSMASH
05-10-2007, 02:15 PM
You really take yourself way too seriously. Everytime I make a joke you come up in my thread correcting my ****, its a JOKE. Relax, Good God.

I also call Jermaine O'Neal God, why dont you give me a lesson on religion and why Jermaine O'Neal isnt God.


Jermaine has asked for a trade twice this season. He said it very clearly when he clearly has stated that he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding process. The PAcers are going in that direction. More than likely he will be traded west.

Jermaine O'Neal is an average player who in the western conference would not make the All Star team. You can call him whatever you want, but he is not a an NBA superstar or a champion... he's just a nice guy with a decent attitude it's just that simple.

2Cleva
05-10-2007, 02:17 PM
You're telling me that if KG isn't available, the Lakers would stay pat rather than trade Bynum and Odom for JO? No way does the current Laker team get out of the first round next year. They would sacrifice another year of Kobe's prime to wait on Bynum?

Yes, I think they would stand pat rather than overpaying in their opinion.

Moses
05-10-2007, 02:18 PM
Jermaine has asked for a trade twice this season. He said it very clearly when he clearly has stated that he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding process. The PAcers are going in that direction. More than likely he will be traded west.

Jermaine O'Neal is an average player who in the western conference would not make the All Star team. You can call him whatever you want, but he is not a an NBA superstar or a champion... he's just a nice guy with a decent attitude it's just that simple.
That makes no sense. When he CLEARLY states that he wants to be traded, he will say: "I want to be traded." He never said that. Quit throwing your baseless JO allegations around. We realize you don't like him...but don't twist words into what they are not. And to say JO wouldn't be at least an all-star in the west is laughable. He's a premier PF in this league. Maybe not top 3 anymore, but if he put together a healthy season with a good team around him..He would put up all star numbers. You put Jermaine in San Antonio for Duncan and the Spurs wouldn't lose much which tells you how good JO truly is. If we get equal young talent back for JO, then I'm all for trading him..but we probably wont get a great offer from any team. Most teams will just try and low ball us and we will end up not trading him. I could really only see JO landing in LA or another team that is desperate for a great low post scorer, and would be willing to give up draft picks and young talent.

The problem with JO when he's been in Indy is that he hasn't had a side kick since the Artest era. No player in this league..especially low post players can win you every game. Too much contact in the paint for one big man to carry your team which is why you never see a big man single handedly will his team to wins like Kobe and Lebron do.

2Cleva
05-10-2007, 02:20 PM
JO wouldn't alone, but it would put them near the top. Right now they are stuck at the base of the mountain.

Agreed. But then how do they get over the top without anything anyone truly wants? Thats why they wouldn't give it all (Odom AND Bynum) for JO, Gasol, or anyone else not named KG.

Since86
05-10-2007, 02:38 PM
That makes no sense. When he CLEARLY states that he wants to be traded, he will say: "I want to be traded." He never said that. Quit throwing your baseless JO allegations around. We realize you don't like him...but don't twist words into what they are not. And to say JO wouldn't be at least an all-star in the west is laughable. He's a premier PF in this league. Maybe not top 5 anymore, but if he put together a healthy season with a good team around him..He would put up all star numbers. You put Jermaine in San Antonio for Duncan and the Spurs wouldn't lose much which tells you how good JO truly is.

The Spurs would lose a lot if they swapped.

They're so good, because of the way they share the ball. JO would kill their offense, and make Tony Parker into a distributor instead of a scorer. JO demands too many touches and shoots too low of a percentage to say they wouldn't lose much, I mean Tim shoots 10% better than JO and only averaged .6 more points.

Tim does just about everything better than JO (the link to their rankings is below), and is said to be a great teammate. Steve Kerr said the other night that Tim was his favorite teammate of all time, I think that says something.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/career_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/career_stats.html
Rankings for this season are at the bottom.

And JO has said he doesn't want to be a part of a rebuilding process. I think he's came very close to saying he wants traded publicly, and I can assume he holds back from saying his true 100% feelings to the media.

Arcadian
05-10-2007, 02:55 PM
JO isn't nearly as good as Duncan. I'm beginning to believe that Duncan may be underrated and will end up as being considered on sort list of greats.

Jo is very forthright with them media. If he was asking to be traded he would have asked to be traded. And if Bird wants to take a jab at JO each year and say maybe they need to bring in someone else, why is JO out there by echoing what Bird is saying. I don't know who makes what moves but I think Bird has a big mouth.

FlavaDave
05-10-2007, 03:02 PM
Jermaine has asked for a trade twice this season. He said it very clearly when he clearly has stated that he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding process. The PAcers are going in that direction. More than likely he will be traded west.

Jermaine O'Neal is an average player who in the western conference would not make the All Star team. You can call him whatever you want, but he is not a an NBA superstar or a champion... he's just a nice guy with a decent attitude it's just that simple.


An average player? He's the 246th best player in the NBA?

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 03:11 PM
Jermaine has asked for a trade twice this season. He said it very clearly when he clearly has stated that he doesn't want to be part of a rebuilding process. The PAcers are going in that direction. More than likely he will be traded west.

Jermaine O'Neal is an average player who in the western conference would not make the All Star team. You can call him whatever you want, but he is not a an NBA superstar or a champion... he's just a nice guy with a decent attitude it's just that simple.Ohh okay thanks for breaking down Jermaine O'neal for me, I have only seen him play 2 times.

Nothing you say, nothing those lies about those sources you got say will ever make me think Jermaine is just an average player. Troy Murphy and Ike Diogu are average player, Jermaine O'Neal puts up 20,10 and 2. There is 5-6 guys in the NBA that do that.

Now go back to spreading your lies about sources and downtown Indianapolis meetings or whatever you call them.

DisplacedKnick
05-10-2007, 03:33 PM
JO isn't nearly as good as Duncan. I'm beginning to believe that Duncan may be underrated and will end up as being considered on sort list of greats.


???

In 10 seasons he's been in the all-star game 9 times, all NBA-1st team 9 times, 2nd team 1, all-defensive 1st team 6 times, 2nd team 3 (this year's hasn't been announced), and league MVP 2 times. Plus he was rookie of the year.

Not sure why he's either underrated or will go down as anything but one of the all-time greats.

Kstat
05-10-2007, 03:38 PM
Tim Duncan is either the greatest or 2nd greatest power forward of all time, depending on who you talk to. Nobody has him any lower than #2.

I fail to see how he's underrated.

Since86
05-10-2007, 03:41 PM
Coincidently, Bill Simmons has an article up about him right now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070509&sportCat=nba

Not his best, but not bad.

Moses
05-10-2007, 03:45 PM
The Spurs would lose a lot if they swapped.

They're so good, because of the way they share the ball. JO would kill their offense, and make Tony Parker into a distributor instead of a scorer. JO demands too many touches and shoots too low of a percentage to say they wouldn't lose much, I mean Tim shoots 10% better than JO and only averaged .6 more points.

Tim does just about everything better than JO (the link to their rankings is below), and is said to be a great teammate. Steve Kerr said the other night that Tim was his favorite teammate of all time, I think that says something.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_duncan/career_stats.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/career_stats.html
Rankings for this season are at the bottom.
Would JO demand so many touches if his team mates didn't straight up suck?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Timmy Duncan is a better player then JO, but I still think the Spurs would be a 55+ win team in the west if you switched JO and Duncan. Duncan doesn't face near as many double teams or cramped up lanes because he has team mates who can create their own shots and hit 3s. In Indiana, the closest player we have outside of JO who can create his own shot is Tinsley. The best shooter 3 point shooter we have is Granger...who isn't even that good of a shooter.

You are also leaving out the fact that JO has been playing injured for the past 2 years.

Since86
05-10-2007, 03:53 PM
You mean have a teammate that didn't suck like having Ron or Reggie?

Wait, he had both of them at the same time. He and Ron didn't get a long because the offense was designed for JO. The same offense that Rick reverted back too after JO's "heated discussion" 8 games into the season.

I'm not trying to knock down JO at all, but he is no where close to what Tim is. Tim is one of the greatest players to ever play the game, and that's not just something you can swap out with and not expect to get worse.

You should really read Simmons' article. He makes a very good case.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 03:57 PM
You mean have a teammate that didn't suck like having Ron or Reggie?

61 wins and a trip to the ECF when he had those teammates. After he didnt have those teammates and he was stuck with a bunch of dudes who cant create their own shot or cant hit a jump shot to save their life thats when he started to look worse. If you put Tim Duncan on this team he would look just as bad as Jermaine does.

DisplacedKnick
05-10-2007, 03:59 PM
Tim Duncan is either the greatest or 2nd greatest power forward of all time, depending on who you talk to. Nobody has him any lower than #2.

I fail to see how he's underrated.

I have him second behind Malone - for now.

He plays another 5-6 years at his current level and I'll swap 'em.

DaSMASH
05-10-2007, 03:59 PM
That makes no sense. When he CLEARLY states that he wants to be traded, he will say: "I want to be traded." He never said that. Quit throwing your baseless JO allegations around. We realize you don't like him...but don't twist words into what they are not. And to say JO wouldn't be at least an all-star in the west is laughable. He's a premier PF in this league. Maybe not top 3 anymore, but if he put together a healthy season with a good team around him..He would put up all star numbers. You put Jermaine in San Antonio for Duncan and the Spurs wouldn't lose much which tells you how good JO truly is. They get help from the refs and low post players do not...but that's a completely different discussion. If we get equal young talent back for JO, then I'm all for trading him..but we probably wont get a great offer from any team. Most teams will just try and low ball us and we will end up not trading him. I could really only see JO landing in LA or another team that is desperate for a great low post scorer, and would be willing to give up draft picks and young talent.

The problem with JO when he's been in Indy is that he hasn't had a side kick since the Artest era. No player in this league..especially low post players can win you every game. Too much contact in the paint for one big man to carry your team which is why you never see a big man single handedly will his team to wins like Kobe and Lebron do.


Doesn't matter if I like him or not...He has already made it known to his agent and friends that he wants to be traded...thats how players like O'Neal operate...All smiles and "How are you" while he's twisting the knife in your back...ask Ron Artest. Jermaine should have thought about the sidekick crap when he was trying to run Ron out of town...just my opinion, but Jermaine did not want Ron on this team due to Rons improvemnet and need for more touches. Artest did not see Carlisle adjust or that the PAcers were going away from Jermaine's 25 touches a night and like the rest of the spoilded NBA brats had a tantrum and asked to be traded...

The NBA is a mans league....O'Neal thinks he needs to be the man, but the cold hard fact is that he's not the man!

All in all your just another J.O. Fan that has drank the red Kool Aid!

Moses
05-10-2007, 03:59 PM
You mean have a teammate that didn't suck like having Ron or Reggie?

Wait, he had both of them at the same time. He and Ron didn't get a long because the offense was designed for JO. The same offense that Rick reverted back too after JO's "heated discussion" 8 games into the season.

I'm not trying to knock down JO at all, but he is no where close to what Tim is. Tim is one of the greatest players to ever play the game, and that's not just something you can swap out with and not expect to get worse.

You should really read Simmons' article. He makes a very good case.
Reggie Miller at the end of his career and a mentally insane teammate in Ron Artest isn't exactly comparable to Manu and Parker...not to mention the Ron, Reggie, and JO teams were a couple injuries away from the finals. I'll give the article a read and drop this because what I am saying is basically unprovable seeing as how Tim and JO would never be swapped.

I just think JO hasn't got his fair share while he has been in Indy. I don't think JO is on Timmy D's level, but I really think the Spurs would be just fine with JO because they have such a great team around Duncan.

DaSMASH
05-10-2007, 04:04 PM
Ohh okay thanks for breaking down Jermaine O'neal for me, I have only seen him play 2 times.

Nothing you say, nothing those lies about those sources you got say will ever make me think Jermaine is just an average player. Troy Murphy and Ike Diogu are average player, Jermaine O'Neal puts up 20,10 and 2. There is 5-6 guys in the NBA that do that.

Now go back to spreading your lies about sources and downtown Indianapolis meetings or whatever you call them.


Dude,

Get back on your meds!

Your very emotional arn't you when it comes to this topic. You can't handle that Jermaine O'Neal is just an averge NBA player thats won nothing, yet has a 19 million dollar contract. No Troy and Ike are just under average NBA players. You can't put O'Neal in Tim Duncans class or a Rasheed Wallace class. Heck at one point Ron Artest was better than O'Neal...Artest could play both ends of the floor ...teams actually feared him...

Nobody fears O'Neal anymore, but if you want to think thatthey do..

It's OK!

PS...one thing I am not is a liar. I'm surprized the Digest's mods haven't done anything with your thread...

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 04:07 PM
Dude,

Get back on your meds!

Your very emotional arn't you when it comes to this topic. You can't handle that Jermaine O'Neal is just an averge NBA player thats won nothing, yet has a 19 million dollar contract. No Troy and Ike are just under average NBA players. You can't put O'Neal in Tim Duncans class or a Rasheed Wallace class. Heck at one point Ron Artest was better than O'Neal...Artest could play both ends of the floor ...teams actually feared him...

Nobody fears O'Neal anymore, but if you want to think thatthey do..

It's OK!

PS...one thing I am not is a liar. I'm surprized the Digest's mods haven't done anything with your thread...What they gonna do to my thread? Lock it because I posted a article.

Nobody fears Jermaine thats why everytime he steps on the floor there is a double team on him.

Now you go back to posting fake trades from downtown Indianapolis.

SoupIsGood
05-10-2007, 04:09 PM
Guys - DaSMASH posts just to rile people up. He's admitted as much. Let him think that JO's an average player and move on. Don't feed the troll.

Kstat
05-10-2007, 04:10 PM
I'd double Rawle Marshall if I knew he was incapable of finding the open man...

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 04:14 PM
I'd double Rawle Marshall if I knew he was incapable of finding the open man...
Many times Jermaine hits the open man and many times the open man misses a wide open jumpshot. Who is he supposed to pass to? No one on this team can shoot.

Since86
05-10-2007, 04:17 PM
61 wins and a trip to the ECF when he had those teammates. After he didnt have those teammates and he was stuck with a bunch of dudes who cant create their own shot or cant hit a jump shot to save their life thats when he started to look worse. If you put Tim Duncan on this team he would look just as bad as Jermaine does.

Tim won three rings with players that weren't as good as those two. Your point? They also had the sixth man of the year, Al Harrington.

That team was stacked with talent and they still couldn't get the job done. Tim has taken less and produced more.

Alpolloloco
05-10-2007, 04:18 PM
Guys - DaSMASH posts just to rile people up. He's admitted as much. Let him think that JO's an average player and move on. Don't feed the troll.

Ok he's slightly above average but he certainly isn't God!

I actually happen to agree with DaSmash on the JO subject and I think some guys here can't handle the fact that their favourite player gets fair criticism.

DaSmash you rule!

Arcadian
05-10-2007, 04:23 PM
I have him second behind Malone - for now.

He plays another 5-6 years at his current level and I'll swap 'em.

That's just it. The discussion shouldn't be is he the best power forward, it should be is he the best player since Jordan.

By the way I didn't see Simmons article until now. He just happens to agree with me.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 04:24 PM
Tim won three rings with players that weren't as good as those two. Your point? They also had the sixth man of the year, Al Harrington.

That team was stacked with talent and they still couldn't get the job done. Tim has taken less and produced more.Are you serious? Reggie was nearing the end of his career at that point and wasnt being nearly as aggressive as he was during his last season here. I love Reggie but you just cant compare him at the end of his career to Ginobili of a few years ago.

Parker is an all star PG.
Ginobili an all star.
Bowen all defensive team every year.

JO has never had more then Tim, NEVER. Tim has been surrounded by talent on top of talent, and players that are mentally strong to win a championship. They also had one of the best coaches of all time while Jermaine O'Neal had to play for Rick Carlisle for 4 years, a 6 year old can figure out how to stop Rick Carlisle. I'm not sure of the story but Jay can help me out, but during the ECF finals Ron Artest did not want to get on a plane to go play in a playoff game.

Jermaine O'Neal had Ron Artest with him for one season and they made it to the ECF. The year before that he was all over the place with the flagrants and suspensions. The year after the 61 wins, he got suspended for the season.

Comparing a idiot and a man about to finish his career to Tim Duncans supporting cast is funny to me.

SoupIsGood
05-10-2007, 04:26 PM
Ok he's slightly above average but he certainly isn't God!

I actually happen to agree with DaSmash on the JO subject and I think some guys here can't handle the fact that their favourite player gets fair criticism.

DaSmash you rule!

He's not my favorite player, and he certainly isn't recieving fair criticism from Mr. DaSMASH. I mean come on, the guy actually believes JO is an average player.

That's cool if you want to criticise JO - he isn't perfect. But man don't side w/ the guy who is just here to clown things up.

Arcadian
05-10-2007, 04:29 PM
As far as JO...It would be tough for him to make the All Star team in the West with Duncan, Garnett, Amare and Dirk. All of those players are better right now. But average? Come on now. If JO is average, Reggie Miller was a respectable sixth man.

FlavaDave
05-10-2007, 04:37 PM
I'd double Rawle Marshall if I knew he was incapable of finding the open man...


This is off topic, but the strategy of double teaming role players who can't pass doesn't happen nearly enough.

I would double team Brian Scalabrine relentlessly if I coached against the Celtics until he proved that he could make a pass that hurt us before our defense had a chance to reset.

PR07
05-10-2007, 04:38 PM
I'm with Jermaniac on this one.

When JO was surrounded with another all-star (Artest), we made it to the ECF. If you want to argue about it, you could say we were a Reggie Miller blocked layup or even a Ron Artest, Rip Hamilton meltdown from maybe winning that series.

Reggie was what 37 years old at that time? To say he was anything more than a solid role player who could hit the big shot was extreme. Sure, he could still hit the big shot and score some points, but he just wasn't able to put up 18+ points every night, it was more like one every three games.

I'd also like to point out that Al Harrington has never won a 6th man of the Year Award and has been a constant playoff choker.

JO is more than average, he's at least a Top 10 big man in this league...and that makes him really good.
Yes, he has his weaknesses, but doesn't every player? No one else on this team makes defenses pay, so they are always going to double JO and make it tough on him.

I'm up for trading JO if the right deal comes along because this organization may have to take a step back to take two steps forward. I'm just not sure we can build a contender by trading our big contract complimentary pieces and with no draft pick this year. That being said, someone will have to make a darn good offer to get JO.

Since86
05-10-2007, 04:50 PM
Debating JO with you Jerm, is like debating Saras with one of his fans while they were here.

You may not think you're on par with them, and in some ways your not even close, but you're too bias to really look at the whole picture.

That wonderful Manu averaged a whopping 8.5pts during their last title season. Malik Rose averaged more, so did Jack.

Look at this lineups
2002-2003
Tim Duncan
Tony Parker
Stephen Jackson
Malik Rose
David Robinson
Manu Ginobili
Bruce Bowen
Steve Smith
Speedy Claxton
Kevin Willis
Steve Kerr
Danny Ferry
Devin Brown
Anthony Goldwire
Mengke Bateer

1998-1999
Tim Duncan
David Robinson
Sean Elliott
Avery Johnson
Mario Elie
Jaren Jackson
Malik Rose
Antonio Daniels
Steve Kerr
Jerome Kersey
Will Perdue
Gerard King
Andrew Gaze
Brandon Williams

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/

EDIT: You're right, Antwan Jamison won 6th man that year.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 05:04 PM
Manu was a rookie that year. And he had 9 ppg off the bench for the Spurs. During the Pacers 61 win season reggie had 10 ppg in the playoffs while starting every game, Manu also shot a better 3 point %.

During their 2004-2005 championship season, Manu had 20 ppg.

Then you look at the list of role players, Malik Rose was in his prime, Avery Johnson was still pretty good in 98-99. Then David Robinson and Sean Elliot. Then you look at Jack, even he was playing better then Reggie during that 02-03 championship for the Spurs.

You bring up us having Al, the guy played horrible during that playoff run and only ended up having 9 ppg as the 3rd option on this team. Ron dont even let me get started on Ron cause I know you seen that Detroit series and Ron chucking 30 foot 3 point shots early in the shot clock.

You can bring up whatever you want, say that I'm biased towards Jermaine but there is no way Jermaine has had the supporting cast that Duncan has had.

Arcadian
05-10-2007, 05:15 PM
The Pacers had more talent but the Spurs were more cohesive. Duncan aside from Robinson never had as good of a second fiddle as say Shaq has.

Sidenote: I don't know it but looks like Jerm is trying to dump UB as his partner in the couples competition. It might cost them my vote.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 05:18 PM
UB is my #1 arguing partner but he never really talks bad about Jermaine so we dont argue on this topic.

Please dont change your vote, Jermaniac needs everyones support.

rexnom
05-10-2007, 05:23 PM
How can you not vote for Jermaniac and UB after "the bet." That sealed it, IMO.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 05:28 PM
No, they double team him because he makes the wrong decision 90% of the time. It usually results in either a missed basket or turnover. Jermaine threw the ball away at a record pace this year.

Your arguements are week! You have no one really agreeing with you....maybe its time that you find another hospital, I mean messageboard.

Don't forget to drink the Jermaine Kool Aid on the way there!!!!
My arguments are weak, you dont know how to spell arguments. Hey what can you do.

You think I give a damn if someone agrees with me? You havent been here long enough homeboy.

indyman37
05-10-2007, 05:30 PM
He stands behind Donnie, but Bird's in charge now.


Mike Wells touched on that in his write-up......
O'Neal didn't mention Bird. There has been friction between them dating from two years ago, when Bird said the team would find somebody to lead it if O'Neal couldn't handle the job. More recently, Bird took an indirect shot at O'Neal and other players when announcing coach Rick Carlisle's firing. Bird said "we had some issues where guys didn't practice and guys that didn't play on a consistent basis. We have to have players that are willing to do whatever it takes." O'Neal was limited the final three months of the season because of his injured left knee.
This is what Walsh had to say about this...

Walsh Clears Air On O’Neal Speculation

http://aol.nba.com/pacers/news/web_070510.html


May 10, 2007 <HR>As a player, coach and executive, Larry Bird has never been one to take indirect shots.

Which is why franchise CEO Donnie Walsh was surprised to see a report in today's Indianapolis Star that suggested Bird had done just that. The newspaper reported the Pacers President took "an indirect shot at (Jermaine) O'Neal" with a comment in last month's press conference about players that didn't practice or play regularly.

"Did Larry Bird single out Jermaine O'Neal in his press conference?" said Walsh. "That pretty much is the biggest bogus issue I've seen printed in our newspaper. I watched that press conference and Bird never referred to Jermaine at all in his comments. He was talking in general terms about what kind of players he liked. To go from there and impute that when he said he liked players that practiced hard it somehow referred to Jermaine O'Neal was the creation of an issue that doesn't exist."

Though O'Neal practiced rarely during the second half of the season, he was nursing an injured knee. He was excused from practice in order to maximize his opportunities to play in games.

A different report has circulated suggesting O'Neal, in his year-end meeting with Bird and Walsh, requested a trade and designated New York as his preferred destination.

"Jermaine never came in and made any demands in our meeting, which involved myself, Bird and Jermaine," Walsh said. "It went pretty much the way he said it did and was quoted as to how it went. We basically talked about the team but there were no demands made and he was thoroughly respectful of the franchise, myself and Bird."
Fully aware he has been and will continue to be mentioned in trade rumors, O'Neal acknowledged the possibility in addressing that topic in his April 19 press conference but has made no trade request, private or otherwise.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 05:56 PM
Thanks Hicks.

Moses
05-10-2007, 06:13 PM
What I want to know is how me and Since aren't on there as an argumentative couple. I remember a few Colts Pats threads back in the day that turned into a 15 page argument.

Jermaniac
05-10-2007, 06:18 PM
Its cause yall are not famous like me and UB.

OnlyPacersLeft
05-10-2007, 07:37 PM
wow didn't know bird and jo had this much of a rift...reminds me of john weisbrod and tracy mcgrady...weisbrod was a total jerk to t-mac and he ran him out of town.