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View Full Version : Round and Round he goes, where O'Neal will land.....Nobody Knows!!!



DaSMASH
05-09-2007, 10:34 AM
Disclaimer- DaSmash only writes items that are being talked about and being thrown against the walls at Conseco Fieldhouse. To say that these "rumors" will or could come true is not what I am saying. So if you feel the need to "call me out" because I've said something that didn't happen , go right ahead. As they say Ignornace is Bliss.


Fact: The Pacers are not in the playoffs for the first time in 10-11 years.

Fact: There is no player on the Pacers current roster that can put a team on his back and lead it to a win.

Fact: The 11 game losing streak is the 2nd longest in Pacer History.

Fact: This Pacer team longest win streak this season was 3.

Fact: Jermaine O'Neal since injuring his shoulder last season has lost the power part of his game.


You can look at it from a Bob Kravitz point of view and call him a "franchise" player...but then again how can you look at Bob Kravitz and take anything he says seriously. Writers like Bill Benner and Robin Miller had more of a pulse with the Pacer franchise and everyone, whether they liked them or not, knew that what they wrote, they wrote from the heart. Kravitz writes his from the posterior.

For those of you who think Jermaine is a Franchise player, thats cool...I think that brunettes look better then blonds, but thats just an opinion.

When you get down to it this season was doomed the moment that Al Harrington was brought back...many say he was brought back too compliment Jemaine, but the fact was he was brought back so that the Pacers would look like they actually got something for the mismanaged Ron Artest trade. For those of you who remember when Artest was traded, he was traded for a player that Larry Bird liked, not a healthy, viable player that would sign an extension and stay in Indiana. But Artest had to go! So said Jermaine, so said the fans. So Artest is gone and in his place are Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Ike Diogu and Keith McCloud.

Be careful what you wish for Pacer Fans....you wanted Artest gone, and now you still complain (rightfully so, though).

Jermaine has had a productive season, but he's not paid to lose, hes paid to lead....he doesn't. all the blocked shots, points and rebounds really don't matter if your team loses. This year he Pacers have lost with consistantly, some nights turning victory into sure defeat.

A year ago Jermaine was injured going to the basket in a Pacers-Pistons game. He hurt his shoulder and was down for I believe what was a month. Yet the Pacers still found a way to win games without him. Once he came back he was a little more than useless as he was now aprehensive about using his power moves going toward the basket, something that carried into this season as we saw more fade-a-way jumpers then ever before from Jermaine. His game has come down a notch, not gone up and any basketball purist can and has seen just what I am talking about.

I'm not slamming O'Neal, don't get me wrong. He has represented this franchise very well in the past. His value now to the Pacers is now in a trade. Teams that are looking for a 6'11" power forward that shoots a decent percentage from mid-range on the floor is where he could-should end up.

Below are the teams he won't be going to:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
One other thing about NBA trading…Only one team wins the championship, all the rest of the teams need obvious improvement . Free Agency, The Draft, and Trades are the only avenues to get it done. Just because you think a player is a star and untouchable on a certain team…ask yourself what has that team won with that particular player…if the answer is NOTHING…then he could be traded…easily as 1 + 1 =2.


Teams with little or no chance in getting O'Neal


The Knicks - again nothing on that roster that would improve the Pacers and no 1st round pick to trade in the top 5.
The Warriors - Already fleeced by the warriors, unless they are taking back Murphy.
The Kings - To many high priced players who are getting old quick and they won't part with Kevin Martin.
The Nets - Kidd is getting old and Carter has the same injury problem that O'Neal has.
The Heat - Who would you get back, they have no one of importance then Dwayne Wade....Shaq only has a season left in him as long as he only plays half of it.
The Hawks - Dealing with them is like kissing your sister, and using your tounge.
The Raptors - This team is not going to screw up its chemistry by adding Jermaine to take all kinds of crazy shots, thats why they have Mo Pete...and he's gone after this year.
The Spurs - Unless your getting Duncan, no thats not happining.
The Cavaliers - no they need a point guard that can also score...Tinsley could be headed there.
The Rockets - Don't have ANYTHING that the PAcers need or want.
The Pistons - No, never, not even for Chanuncy Billups (http://serving.adsrevenue.clicksor.net/serving/search4_net.php?q=lWL-.%FD%24.%25%FD%272%21%2C%7CYQT9%FA%25%28%22%FC&q3=%5BQTY_U0pS%5B%F9icNeS_MqW0%2A%23%FB%272%7C%23% 2A%24%FC&tl=8546ddb4f459d2ca&pn=52bab111e73a60c2&pid=6435&sid=8625&nid=2&curl=%20) in a sign and trade.

Now the teams with a 30% chance of aquiring Jermaine.


The Jazz - Not really any players that would interest Donnie.
The WIzards - Some interesting players that compliment Arenas.
The Sonics - Ray Allen is alwasy hurt also, after that the cubbard is bare.
The Magic - Could be some movement, depends on what they do against the Pistons.
The Bucks - Would you really want anyone besides Micheal Redd ???
The Hornets - Tyson Chandlers breakout year, should be DPOY. Nobody on this team actually would be good enough to rebuild with. <o:p></o:p>

Teams with a 50% chance of aquiring O'Neal <o:p></o:p>

The Mavericks- Choked two years in a row now….Dirk & Terry for Jermaine & Jamal…hmmmmmmm.
The Suns - If they don't advance, anyone besides Amare and Nash could be moved and 3 1 st round draft choices. Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas and two number #1’s this year.
The Sixers Andre Miller, 3 first round picks and ???
The Blazers - Many young players with upside and Donnies fleeced them before.
The Nuggets - Need help upfront scoring- Camby, Nene, Najara, & JR Smith all easily could be had.
The Bulls - Once the Bulls fall short because they can't score or rebound from around the basket Gordon, Deng, Nocconi or maybe Heinrich could be moved for post up help. Knicks first round pick also. Gordon is a defensive liability.
The Clippers- This team is just like the Pacers, only with more talent. Sam Cassell is aging right before our eyes, yet hes the straw that stirs the Clips. Elton Brand, Corey Magette....
The Lakers- If push comes to shove the Lakers would have to take Tinsley also. The only way that the salaries match up is that Bynum, Cook, Odom, a resigned Luke Walton and the Lakers #1 pick this yea comes this way. I would almost push this into the 75% chance<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Teams with a 75% chance

The Celtics - Sending Paul Pierce, Theo Ratliffs contract and their #1 pick for O'Neal and Tinsley. Pacers may have to take Scalbrinies contract. If the Celtics get the number 1 pick he’s sure to take at least 2 to 3 years to get some polish (look at Granger) By that Time Pierce will be at the end of his contract and still losing.Works under the CBA and is what the PAcers will only accept.
The Bobcats - Sean May, Raymond Felton, Gerald Wallace, Walter Herrmann and their first,first round pick for O'Neal and Shawne Williams. Why do the Bobcats do this? O'Neal with Okafer and Morrison gives them a decent front court and with the Free agent market opening up and the Bobcats being under the salary cap anything can happen. Pacers would cut Gerald Wallace. The Bobcats need vets because they have no credibility on the court, just youth.
The Grizzlies - Pau Gasol and Mike Miller and their #1 for O'Neal & Tinsley. The Grizz were the worst team in the league, what have Gasol and Miller accomplished in their three seasons together? NOTHING ! Hubie Brown and Mike Fratello both found out that these guys can’t sustain play together. O'Neal and Tinsley in the right place could rebirth...Memphis could be that place....
The Timberwolves - The old Kevin Garnett and throw in for Jermaine O'Neal and throw in. You trade us your baggage and we'll give you ours. Garnett, like O’Neal can also opt put after next year...Put him in the Peja catagory. Yet Bird and McHale are Boston buddies and both are taking a lort of heat for their teams....could be, maybe .....maybe.....

Tom White
05-09-2007, 11:06 AM
[QUOTE=DaSMASH;574460]

"The Magic - Could be some movement, depends on what they do against the Pistons."

Regardless of what I think of the rest of your post, I have to ask this.
How long ago did you write this?

DisplacedKnick
05-09-2007, 11:15 AM
[The Bobcats - Sean May, Raymond Felton, Gerald Wallace, Walter Herrmann and their first,first round pick for O'Neal and Shawne Williams. Why do the Bobcats do this? O'Neal with Okafer and Morrison gives them a decent front court and with the Free agent market opening up and the Bobcats being under the salary cap anything can happen. Pacers would cut Gerald Wallace. The Bobcats need vets because they have no credibility on the court, just youth.

OK - I don't want to pick apart a nice post but I have to ask - are you talking about the 25-year old Gerald Wallace? The 18-pt, 7 rebound, 3 assist, 2 steals per game, 50% shooting Gerald Wallace? The one who was a 24-9 player in April and 21-9 in March?

You get Gerald Wallace and you either trade Granger for something else or one of those 2 starts at SG.

Speed
05-09-2007, 11:20 AM
OK - I don't want to pick apart a nice post but I have to ask - are you talking about the 25-year old Gerald Wallace? The 18-pt, 7 rebound, 3 assist, 2 steals per game, 50% shooting Gerald Wallace? The one who was a 24-9 player in April and 21-9 in March?

You get Gerald Wallace and you either trade Granger for something else or one of those 2 starts at SG.


And Wallace plays really hard, almost too hard where he hurts himself. How many guys put up those kinda numbers and play defense? He has tons of value.

Also, I'm now taking bets on the Magic/Piston series for anyone interested, I'll give great odds on the Magic.

Coop
05-09-2007, 11:34 AM
I'm almost afraid to say this because I know I will get blasted for it, but I think my favorite trade would be with the Bulls. Yes yes, I know they are in the same division. But, if we're rebuilding, does it really matter?

I would be happy with a trade that included Hinrich, Knicks #1, and a filler. The only problem is, where do we find the extra contracts to make the money match up? It would most likely have to be a 3 team trade, unless Chicago wants to get rid of Wallace so Thomas can move into the starting center position.

FlavaDave
05-09-2007, 11:46 AM
If you added all those up, wouldn't that be like a 900% chance that JO is traded?

Hicks
05-09-2007, 11:59 AM
The Suns - If they don't advance, anyone besides Amare and Nash could be moved and 3 1 st round draft choices. Shawn Marion, Kurt Thomas and two number #1?s this year.

I'd love this one.

Great news that there's >155% chance of JO being traded. :D

Hicks
05-09-2007, 12:00 PM
OK - I don't want to pick apart a nice post but I have to ask - are you talking about the 25-year old Gerald Wallace? The 18-pt, 7 rebound, 3 assist, 2 steals per game, 50% shooting Gerald Wallace? The one who was a 24-9 player in April and 21-9 in March?

You get Gerald Wallace and you either trade Granger for something else or one of those 2 starts at SG.

Agreed. An overall nice post, but there are some pieces like this one that just make no sense.

Jermaniac
05-09-2007, 12:00 PM
That suns trade is amazing. But we dont need Shawn Marion that would stunt Danny Grangers growth. And we are offered Paul Pierce we dont want him either.*

*Danny Granger lovers.

JB's Breakout Year
05-09-2007, 12:05 PM
I'm almost afraid to say this because I know I will get blasted for it, but I think my favorite trade would be with the Bulls. Yes yes, I know they are in the same division. But, if we're rebuilding, does it really matter?

I would be happy with a trade that included Hinrich, Knicks #1, and a filler. The only problem is, where do we find the extra contracts to make the money match up? It would most likely have to be a 3 team trade, unless Chicago wants to get rid of Wallace so Thomas can move into the starting center position.
To me, they are the perfect trading partner. Hinrich, Nocioni, and Thomas/the Knicks' pick. (Thomas is one bad shut yo' mouth).

It helps also that it hurts the Bulls cap flexibility-wise. They hurt us for a couple of years with him and Wallace, but we aren't contending for the title in the next couple of years any way you slice it.

CableKC
05-09-2007, 12:07 PM
DaSmash,

I think that you are overestimating the league's interest in JONeal. I am guessing that we have to see what trade offers that we are going to get.....but I have a feeling that Tinsley is still going to be here when ( and if ) JONeal is sent packing. We are looking at 2 types of deals that involve JONeal.....a likely "better" trade where we get a better return of players where JONeal is not packaged with Tinsley....and a "lesser" trade that does involve JONeal being packaged with Tinsley.

Most teams may have some interest and offers for JONeal....and would be stupid not to put up a bid for him.....but adding Tinsley to the table would knock the vast majority of the GMs interested off the table. Of the list...the only teams that have any genuine interest in KG will have JONeal and Gasol as Plan 1b and 1c....IMHO...the Bulls, Lakers and Knicks ( but only due to their huge laundry list of contracts that can match salary while being one of the few teams that could absorb Tinsley's contract ). For salary reasons, the majority of the teams won't be in any financial position to offer any type of deals that would not gut their roster.

DisplacedKnick
05-09-2007, 12:16 PM
DaSmash,

I think that you are overestimating the league's interest in JONeal. I am guessing that we have to see what trade offers that we are going to get.....but I have a feeling that Tinsley is still going to be here when ( and if ) JONeal is sent packing. We are looking at 2 types of deals that involve JONeal.....a likely "better" trade where we get a better return of players where JONeal is not packaged with Tinsley....and a "lesser" trade that does involve JONeal being packaged with Tinsley.

Teams may have some interest and offers for JONeal.....but adding Tinsley to the table would knock the vast majority of the GMs interested off the table.

There are a few examples of that. Frex - Brand AND Maggette?

Brand and JO are very equivalent players based on age, stats, and recent team performance - with one notable exception.

In the last 3 years JO has played in: 44-51-69
Brand has played in: 81-79-80

If anyone's including an extra player to make that happen, it's the Pacers.

And I really don't want to pick this apart.

CableKC
05-09-2007, 12:19 PM
There are a few examples of that. Frex - Brand AND Maggette?

Brand and JO are very equivalent players based on age, stats, and recent team performance - with one notable exception.

In the last 3 years JO has played in: 44-51-69
Brand has played in: 81-79-80

If anyone's including an extra player to make that happen, it's the Pacers.

And I really don't want to pick this apart.
Unless Livingston is forced to retire due to his injury, I really don't see how getting JONeal and Tinsley would improve their situation. To me...its a lateral move at best....which begs the obvious question....why make the trade in the first place?

DaSMASH
05-09-2007, 12:27 PM
[quote=DaSMASH;574460]

"The Magic - Could be some movement, depends on what they do against the Pistons."

Regardless of what I think of the rest of your post, I have to ask this.
How long ago did you write this?

I wrote this originally over on PD3, just brought it over and revised the title and a couple of sections...missed that one about the Pistons....

DaSMASH
05-09-2007, 12:33 PM
DaSmash,

I think that you are overestimating the league's interest in JONeal. I am guessing that we have to see what trade offers that we are going to get.....but I have a feeling that Tinsley is still going to be here when ( and if ) JONeal is sent packing. We are looking at 2 types of deals that involve JONeal.....a likely "better" trade where we get a better return of players where JONeal is not packaged with Tinsley....and a "lesser" trade that does involve JONeal being packaged with Tinsley.

Most teams may have some interest and offers for JONeal....and would be stupid not to put up a bid for him.....but adding Tinsley to the table would knock the vast majority of the GMs interested off the table. Of the list...the only teams that have any genuine interest in KG will have JONeal and Gasol as Plan 1b and 1c....IMHO...the Bulls, Lakers and Knicks ( but only due to their huge laundry list of contracts that can match salary while being one of the few teams that could absorb Tinsley's contract ). For salary reasons, the majority of the teams won't be in any financial position to offer any type of deals that would not gut their roster.

The Lakers, Bobcats and Grizzlies have all have made contact about O'Neal from what I am told.

And it doesn't matter what we as fans think he's worth, its ultimately the teams involved and the purpose or situation that they would need Jermaine for. Soetimes the price can be drove up by supply and demand....who else is going to trade a current All Star 6'11", 260 lb double, double player. That is whatthe PAcers are going to be selling him as... Teams like the Mavericks, Bulls, Suns and Lakers are going to be right at the front door pounding hard, because that one player could take them to at the next level. In the NBA its a race not a marathon....coaches and G.M.s jobs have a very small window....

avoidingtheclowns
05-09-2007, 12:35 PM
The Blazers - Many young players with upside and Donnies fleeced them before.

you mean the james white trade naturally...

DaSMASH
05-09-2007, 12:37 PM
That suns trade is amazing. But we dont need Shawn Marion that would stunt Danny Grangers growth. And we are offered Paul Pierce we dont want him either.*

*Danny Granger lovers.


Danny Granger could be trade bait also...NOBODY is safe and all offers will be listened to. I agree about Pierce. The Suns and Lakers could offer the most, yet your not going to get a Durrant or Oden. The Spurs are said to be high on Danny Granger. The Pistons like Ike Diogu. The Girl Scouts want Troy Murphy, they feel like he could be their bruiser in the paint...:-o

CableKC
05-09-2007, 12:47 PM
The Pistons like Ike Diogu.
The Pistons don't need another version of Ike...they have Jason Maxiell already.

indygeezer
05-09-2007, 12:52 PM
So by including these picks, are you thinking this gets done BEFORE the draft?

Oh, and when do we get out coach lined out?

Trader Joe
05-09-2007, 01:37 PM
The Suns deal seems like a ton of value for JO as does the Boston and Memphis deals. Boston and Memphis give us our star players and a probable top two pick? I'm not seeing how that makes much sense to me from their perspective, but if they are willing I'm not saying no. Out of all the deals up there I'd take the Bobcats deal probably. As long as we hang onto Gerald Wallace.

pwee31
05-09-2007, 02:18 PM
My guess is right foot on blue

RomanGabriel
05-09-2007, 03:01 PM
Good stuff. Though I find it surprising that the B-Cats have contacted us. They've got a solid young core. Are you sure they'd want to bust that up? Do you think there's actually a better chance that a 3-way trade would go down instead of just one other team? BTW, I've seen a lot of Ty Thomas and though he can jump through the roof a la James White, and he's very young, I'm not convinced that he'll ever be more than just a guy. But the previous post about the Bulls currently being exposed for their lack of inside game could push them to make a move, though Paxson is very clever.

sig
05-09-2007, 03:19 PM
I don't see the Mavs trading Terry and Dirk for O'Neal and Tinsley. The Mavs may have choked but Dirk is better than JO and Terry is better than Tinlsey. If the Mavs are going for a title then they would try to add JO to Dirk, Howard and Harris. Dampier, Terry, the Hawks number 2 pick, and future Mavs #1's is the best that the Mavs would offer. The Pacers would probably laugh at that. I'd say the chances of a Mav deal is about 0-5%.

Boston might be a good trading partner but they are not going to part with their number 1 pick if it lands Oden or Durant. Pierce would solve a lot of Pacer problems at SG. I'd be all over it if the Pacers could get Jefferson and Pierce.

Did I read that the Pacers would cut Gerald Wallace if they obtained him?

naptown
05-09-2007, 04:30 PM
[QUOTE=DaSMASH;574460]The Lakers- If push comes to shove the Lakers would have to take Tinsley also. The only way that the salaries match up is that Bynum, Cook, Odom, a resigned Luke Walton and the Lakers #1 pick this yea comes this way. I would almost push this into the 75% chance<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Right here is what I see happening. JO and Tins for Bynum, Odom, Kwame and Farmar.

Kwame is in the last year of his contract at $9 million, which makes him very valuable. If for nothing else than cap relief after next year.

Kegboy
05-09-2007, 04:57 PM
Right here is what I see happening. JO and Tins for Bynum, Odom, Kwame and Farmar.

I'd agree to that if the Lakers promise to produce a reality show centered around Phil and Mel Mel. Not just practice, but force them to live together and have episodes where they go to the store or the beach.

:cool:

mike_D
05-09-2007, 05:18 PM
Danny Granger could be trade bait also...NOBODY is safe and all offers will be listened to. I agree about Pierce. The Suns and Lakers could offer the most, yet your not going to get a Durrant or Oden. The Spurs are said to be high on Danny Granger. The Pistons like Ike Diogu. The Girl Scouts want Troy Murphy, they feel like he could be their bruiser in the paint...:-o

If we add a all star smallforward like Marion then Granger will be dealt most likely for a young pg with potential like Calderon.

As far as Boston trading Pierce for Oneal I don't see it. If they want Oneal I see them keeping Pierce.Could you imagine if they luck out and Get Oden nd trade for Oneal. C-Oden PF-Oneal SF-Pierce-Allen PG-West/Rondo. That is a pretty good 5 and they could easily clime up in the East. I know they have Jefferson which they may cause them not to trade for a guy like Oneal because he has a ton of potential but if we could somehow snatch two of there young prospects such as Green,Rondo,Jefferson+ filler to make contracts work either on Boston or a third team I would jump on a trade with them so quick. I am very high on all three of those young guys, I think all three have potential to be stars at there respective positions though I think Rondo has the longest way to go.

McKeyFan
05-09-2007, 05:30 PM
I think the Pacers two main priorities are in this order.

1. Solid starting point guard who can shoot.

2. A scorer. At any position. We must have at least one Alpha Dog go to guy, especially if we are losing JO and Tins. Jax was our other one, and Artest before that. We don't have anyone on the roster who qualifies, unless Ike or Shawn make some quantum leaps over the summer.

That said, I think the following teams could get us those two priorties. I'll let the geeks figure out how and if it works, if draft picks and filler are included, etc.:

- Bobcats: Felton and Morrison.
- Pheonix: Barbosa and Marion or Diaw.
- Boston: Pierce and a Boston point guard.
- Bulls: Heinrich and Gordon (they won't trade Deng, will they?)
- Mavs: Jason Terry and Stackhouse.
- Warriors: Monta Ellis and Richardson.
- Wiz: Actually, just getting Arenas solves both problems. (So does Baron Davis, who I suggested at the beginning of the year and got laughed at.)

ChicagoJ
05-09-2007, 06:43 PM
I think the Pacers two main priorities are in this order.

1. Solid starting point guard who can shoot.


Not sure that's true now that Rick's gone.

We may be back to wanting a PG that can initiate the offense and defend. Or at least that's what I'm hoping for.

indygeezer
05-09-2007, 09:56 PM
Not sure that's true now that Rick's gone.

We may be back to wanting a PG that can initiate the offense and defend. Or at least that's what I'm hoping for.


Won't the coaching choice influence that? ie...Shaw with the triangle (or a *******ization of it) and no real PG.

McKeyFan
05-09-2007, 10:10 PM
Not sure that's true now that Rick's gone.

We may be back to wanting a PG that can initiate the offense and defend. Or at least that's what I'm hoping for.

Humor me a little.

After five years, how about a point guard that can shoot?

Regardless of the coach.

Swingman
05-09-2007, 10:33 PM
Pacers would cut Gerald Wallace.

There is no way we would cut Gerald Wallace if he was traded to us for JO. We'd likely trade Granger for a young guard with potential instead. You don't get a borderline all star and then drop him.

BlueNGold
05-09-2007, 10:48 PM
I think it will be the Lakers if Bird will deal with them. The Lakers probably offer the best combination of players.

The Lakers will part with Odom and Kwame, but will not hand us Bynum too. I would push hard for a full rebuild....a JO/Tinsley/Foster for Odom/Kwame/Bynum/Farmar combination. Phil likes Foster and Kobe wants JO. They both want to win NOW. Bird wants to get rid of Tinsley and wants value from JO. And Bird has to want a rebuild at this point.

This would upgrade their frontcourt with two veterans with playoff experience that are about the same age as Kobe. It improves their PG position with more experience as well. It really will give them a much better shot at winning it all. No way can you double both Kobe and JO at the same time. Tinsley will never have to shoot the ball with Kobe on the court.

We go into immediate rebuild mode, send Tinsley packing, get rid of an injury riddled franchise player, move Foster when his trade value may have peaked, get two young prospects at the C and PG positions - two very difficult spots to fill on the roster. We hasten the inevitable departure of JO who with his record might have a career ending injury at any moment. Kwame will be a nice salary dump. Odom and Bynum can be immediately plugged into the starting lineup eliminating the need to start Murphy. We could deal either Williams or Granger and other pieces for a young SG prospect.

There it is.

FlavaDave
05-10-2007, 09:33 AM
The deal with the Lakers begins and ends with Bynum. It is very fair for the Pacers to expect him in return.

I'll go ahead and say it: No way do the Pacers deal with LA if they don't give up Bynum. Walsh should even take a lesser deal than Odom/Brown/pick from another team rather than accept less than the Lakers best.

Any executive with an perennial All-Star starting big man who can't get a question mark of a young center in exchange for a legit shot at a championship doesn't deserve to be running a team.