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View Full Version : PD Referendum - Ike Diogu



OakMoses
05-09-2007, 09:44 AM
I'll go a different direction with this one.

LG33
05-09-2007, 09:52 AM
I'm honestly not a big fan. When you type in "overrated" into a document composed on Microsoft Word, then you highlight the word, hold down shift and press F7, the third choice from the top is Ike Diogu. And Microsoft is never wrong.

The guy will challenge Harrison next season for most fouls in shortest amount of time, but DH will come out on top.
I think he's got great trade value, though, so I say package him with Murphy for somebody decent.

FlavaDave
05-09-2007, 09:55 AM
Patience, my fellow Pacer fans. Patience.

I like Ike.

LG33
05-09-2007, 09:58 AM
Patience, my fellow Pacer fans. Patience.

I like Ike.

Listen, that pithy slogan might win an elderly war hero electoral victory over some turd named Adlai, but to me its just as meaningless a phrase as "It's up to us". And, like The Who, "I Won't Get Fooled Again". :-p

I'm sorry, I just miss Sarunas so much...

Kegboy
05-09-2007, 09:59 AM
I really don't know. He showed some flashes, but if he's starting we're really going to suck. But then, we sucked this year, so whatever.

Speed
05-09-2007, 10:01 AM
I think he has the ability to be a 20/10 guy, I feel just the opposite that he is overated, I think he just needs court time and he is underated.

His per minutes stats are really good, he has a great low post game, good shot, he is physical, he isn't a whiner, he just isn't consistent yet, which alot of second year guys are not.

I really think he has All Star potential.

He needs to know the guy who is guarding him better and not try to muscle big guys, but take them out on the perimeter a little bit. He also needs to recognize the double team sooner and pass out effectively. All of his limitations are getting it mentally through experience, imho. I haven't heard anything about his work ethic, either way, but he seems to play hard, on the court.

LG33
05-09-2007, 10:03 AM
Speed, your avatar betrays your impartiality.
(I say that because I can't really refute your points, well, not with facts at least. A character assassination might be in order though)

ajbry
05-09-2007, 10:06 AM
Where is the "Desperately hoping he turns out to be a great player in order to somewhat justify an absolutely terrible trade" option?

I don't like Ike's game but I don't hate it either. His post moves are pretty solid, but his defense and passing need a ton of work.

LG33
05-09-2007, 10:08 AM
Where is the "Desperately hoping he turns out to be a great player in order to somewhat justify an absolutely terrible trade" option?

I don't like Ike's game but I don't hate it either. His post moves are pretty solid, but his defense and passing need a ton of work.

You miss Sarunas too, huh? :)


I'd trade Diogu for Rashad McCants (because he McCant miss a shot)

ajbry
05-09-2007, 10:10 AM
You miss Sarunas too, huh? :)

Nah, he's been an amazing cheerleader for the Dubs. He's filled his role quite well and is making big celebrations in the clutch.

Speed
05-09-2007, 10:13 AM
Speed, your avatar betrays your impartiality.
(I say that because I can't really refute your points, well, not with facts at least. A character assassination might be in order though)

Oh, I guess that does give it away. :D

Unclebuck
05-09-2007, 10:21 AM
I like Ike. Is he ever going to be a superstar - no. Is he ever going to be an allstar - I doubt it. One thing was very obvious this past season when he more minutes in a given game, he played rather well. He gets his shot blocked a lot and he tries his jumphook too often. He needs to develope a turnaround jumper. One thing he has that cannot be taught is a nice touch.
The coaching staff did a rather poor job exploiting Ike's face up game in pick and rolls. Facing up from 15-16 feet he's deadly.

The downside is that he seems to have a lot of trouble learning the offensive plays and learning hte defensive team concepts.

I think he's keeper and in the NBA as it is today (lack of post up players) Ike is more than good enough - so I think Ike makes trading JO more likely.

FlavaDave
05-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Speed put it well. He hasn't shown flashes. He has actually done it on the court.

This isn't the most accurate method of projection, but flow with me here:

Ike played 12.9 minutes a game. Let's triple his stats to get a glimpse of what he could do with staters minutes.

18.6 points, 10.2 boards, 1.2 blocks, .477 FG%, .800 FT%.

I'll take that. Of course, he would also average a foul out a game.

Where have we heard that before? David Harrison comes to mind.

But there is another guy I can think of. We uncovered another under gem of a big man based on his projected stats: Jermaine O'Neal.

Roferr
05-09-2007, 10:49 AM
Ike has a world of potential. Ready for the next Boozer? Yelp, that's the type of player I foresee him as when he's out of JO's shadow.

Ragnar
05-09-2007, 11:04 AM
Ike has the basketball smarts of David Harrison trade him while people still want him.

Skaut_Ech
05-09-2007, 11:32 AM
I'll tell ya while I'm high on Ike. He has very nice footwork in the post. There's been comparisons made to David, but I don't think you can compare the guys. At all. David seemed to stagnate in his development. If he couldn't take his man in the first few seconds, he would just try and bull his way through his defender. That's where he gets a lot of his fouls. Ike, on the other hand, is simply undisciplined. You can SEE the tools there. He has multiple moves in the post and can actually handle the ball in the post. On top of it, he's very aggressive, which I LOVE.

I think part of the reason I like him is that he reminds me of Adrian Caldwell, but with offensive moves. Ike don't see Ike ever being the Man in the post, but I think he can be a key component in a low post tandem. Closest Pacer analogy I can think of, is he could be an Antonio Davis type who needs a Dale to play off. Two tough guys who play in the post. Just on a side note, and not to divert this thread, but I think in the future, we're all going to be appreciative of the GS trade and the players we got. I see us having some key pieces..which just need that dominating player down low for them to play off.

I don't mean to diss JO, but imagine our former GS guys playing with a Tim Duncan, or some other top tier low post guy. Ike is a real keeper. My only quibble is that i can't get a handle on his basketball IQ and that IS a concern for me.

ChicagoJ
05-09-2007, 12:08 PM
Agree with Skaut - I like his footwork in the post but he's too mechanical right now.

You can see him go through the check list...

catch
dribble to square up so I don't travel
go into my jump hook move
here comes trouble
switch hands
go into my up-and-under move
two points
whistle
and one.

He's just got to play more instinctively. Especially since he isn't very big and he's subject to getting his shot blocked quite often.

We *****ed and moaned that the Pacers never got a good big-man coach for Harrison. And now it may be too late. All that ability wasted because David never came to terms with how to use it. Ike will likely suffer the same fate if we don't get him a good low-post big man coach.

At the very least, Ike needs to go to Pete Newell's camp over and over.

If JO is traded and Ike becomes our starter, next year we could looking at 15-22 wins. I like Ike, a lot. But I think his upside is reached at "sixth-man and unquestioned #1 option for the second unit." There's nothing wrong with that.

CableKC
05-09-2007, 12:44 PM
If JO is traded and Ike becomes our starter, next year we could looking at 15-22 wins. I like Ike, a lot. But I think his upside is reached at "sixth-man and unquestioned #1 option for the second unit." There's nothing wrong with that.
For the upcoming season, I think that Ike can be a very solid 3rd scoring option ( as a Starter or 1st "Big Man off the Bench" ) on the floor.....basically a guy that is paired with 2 other scoring options on the floor that will likely command a double-team ( so that Ike himself is not constantly double-teamed ).....or is on the floor with the 2nd unit ( and therefore playing with "lesser" players who Ike can abuse on the offensive end ).....paired with the right players, he should flourish on the offensive end.

I just think that FOR NOW, he needs more time to develop, learn to play some defense, not foul out so quickly and MOST IMPORTANTLY learn how to pass out of the double-team. Until then...he will be the Hulk with better footwork and a better scoring touch.

AesopRockOn
05-09-2007, 02:32 PM
Ike has a world of potential. Ready for the next Boozer? Yelp, that's the type of player I foresee him as when he's out of JO's shadow.

Boozer is much smarter than Ike on the court. He takes advantage of every open space. Ike just kind of fouls a lot.

Roferr
05-09-2007, 02:41 PM
Boozer is much smarter than Ike on the court. He takes advantage of every open space. Ike just kind of fouls a lot.

Boozer has a lot more playing time. Ike's just learning the ropes and will only get better. I think his perceived lack of smarts is actually attributable to his inexperience.

Speed
05-09-2007, 02:42 PM
Boozer is much smarter than Ike on the court. He takes advantage of every open space. Ike just kind of fouls a lot.

You know if they really do ship out JO. They really need to go find the best "teachers" they can for this team. I wish you could get like Larry Brown as an Assistant, so he could just teach and not run things. I'm not serious, at all, but you have to have guys who teach.

d_c
05-09-2007, 02:47 PM
When Mullin drafted Ike, you know what kind of player he was envisioning out of him?

Paul Milsap.

Mullin was looking for that inside presence and toughness that the W's had lacked for years. Offensively in the post, he could provide some of that with some good moves. He could definitely punish bad post defenders.

The problem was that Ike didn't do the other things that make you a post presence other than back to the basket scoring. He needs to show the same kind of intensity/enthusiasm for doing the dirty work as he does for scoring. If he can do this, he'll be fine.

Just don't expect him to be Elton Brand, and I think he'll eventually make you happy.

Major Cold
05-09-2007, 02:58 PM
I say give him a bulk of the minutes off the bench in the first half of the season. That way you invest time and effort and see if his can has improved. If he comes into training camp out of shape or he has not progress. Package him with a bad salary.

Los Angeles
05-09-2007, 03:56 PM
I voted rotation player because that what he is until he proves to everyone that he deserves a bigger (or smaller) role.

But I could say that about every player on every team. It's just how I roll. ;)

pwee31
05-09-2007, 05:54 PM
It could be the impatience talking, but I don't see Ike being the guy a lot of people see him as being. I know he's young, and shows signs, but I never seeing him getting over that hump and becoming an all-star calibur player?!

Now I could be wrong, and this post could be brought up in the future and make me look like an idiot who shouldn't have an opinion, but I say we should get something for him while he still has value.

Ron who?
05-09-2007, 07:06 PM
I'm honestly not a big fan. When you type in "overrated" into a document composed on Microsoft Word, then you highlight the word, hold down shift and press F7, the third choice from the top is Ike Diogu. And Microsoft is never wrong.

The guy will challenge Harrison next season for most fouls in shortest amount of time, but DH will come out on top.
I think he's got great trade value, though, so I say package him with Murphy for somebody decent.

exactly what i've been thinking since we got him.... too bad all the trades i come up with are straight up basura..... anyways... i feel as if i'm just a tad bit more harsh than u guys are with him cuz i view him as trade bait and thats about it...

BlueNGold
05-09-2007, 08:26 PM
If Ike learns how to play within the flow of an offense, rather than simply posting up, he will be far more effective. He sometimes takes on strong post defenders thinking he can score on anyone, throwing up a wild hook shot or getting blocked. I think he would be better served if he took advantage of his sweet midrange shot more often.

wintermute
05-09-2007, 11:11 PM
i'm big on ike, but i don't think he's ready to be a starter. first big off the bench works for me though.

even if jermaine gets traded, there's still murphy who desperately needs to be showcased... ike starting by midseason may happen though, depending on his progress.

JayRedd
05-09-2007, 11:20 PM
Dude is a LOOOAAAD on the block. He needs to get more honery on the glass and learn some of Foster's defensive positioning...but you can't teach that footwork.

I'm fine with him starting next year if we ship out JO.